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What’s this then?
This is the handsome new Range Rover Velar. It is the fourth member of the Range Rover and this particular example will set you back €76,085.
What’s so special about it?
The Range Rover Velar is dripping with new technology and luxurious features. It uses the same aluminium architecture as the Jaguar F-Pace, however the Velar is longer. The Velar has a 2,874mm wheelbase – as a comparison the Evoque wheelbase is 2,660mm and the Range Rover Sport has a wheelbase of 2,923mm.
Any standout design features?
Yes, loads. The buzz word to describe the Velar is ‘reductionism’ with Land Rover claiming the design of the exterior and interior was driven by this concept. External features include super-slim Matrix Laser-LED headlights, which are actually the slimmest headlight clusters ever fitted to a production Land Rover vehicle. There are also flush deployable door handles, just like you’d find on a Tesla.
And what powers this Range Rover Velar?
This particular example is powered by a Ingenium 2.0-litre four-cylinder turbocharged diesel engine. This engine produces 180hp at 4,000rpm and 430NM of torque at 4,000rpm. It is matched to a ZF eight-speed automatic transmission with all-wheel drive, Intelligent Driveline Dynamics and active locking rear differential.
Does the Range Rover Velar have any luxurious touches?
Loads! The spacious, relaxing cabin is upholstered in Light Oyster/Ebony perforated grained leather seats, which are butter soft and supremely comfortable. And the Touch Pro Duo infotainment system features two high-definition 10-inch touchscreens, which are integrated behind black panels and are kept ‘secret until lit’. It makes the cabin feel very serene and uncluttered.
But who would drive this car?
This car is for someone who wants to feel like the king of the road. Someone who wants to feel safe and secure but in a glamorous way. This car will keep you and your precious cargo safe and sound on the mean streets of Ireland thanks to the huge array of safety systems and that vice-like grip provided by the all-wheel drive system.
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He owes Tony Holohan a massive public apology now, if he is saying this.
@LangerDan: On Monday Varadkar said he didn’t believe the recommendation from NPHET had been “thought through”.
In this mornings column in the Independent he said that “NPHET’s advice was taken seriously and that nobody was left in any doubt about the worsening trajectory.”
Back tracking now. If he is explaining things on the Independent he is losing. He was too quick on the draw last Monday and he knows it.
@David Corrigan: and hes supposed so be a doctor
@LangerDan: owes him nothing that shouldn’t have been leaked and country can’t afford level 5 … level 3 is just as good if people listened to advice …
@David Corrigan: You can still take the advice seriously but believe it had not been thought through. In fairness, NPHET made all sorts of statements about the health service without even consulting the HSE
@Kyle: That is his weakness. He has to be at front and center when it comes to image. NPHET stealing his thunder was simply too much. He couldn’t let it slide and just work with them and the other political parties in government.
Nope. Leo had to call Claire and book a slot on TV to “show who’s boss”.
Very poor judgment and response.
@Gerrard: Jeez, If only someone had thought before now, to let the nation know that all we have to do is to follow the guidelines…
@LangerDan: Classic reactions from someone who has let power go to their head. I often saw that after people I know would get promoted to executive level in companies. They just change completely.
@LangerDan: He doesn’t owe anyone an apology
@David Corrigan: no way would the people in this country have accepted level 5just dumped on us like that.
@Gerrard: Except they are not
@David Corrigan: totally agree. It’s the all about Leo show we are witnessing. I bet even that milkshake event was staged. Everything seems to be an act with him. An ego maniac.
@sjr: Unfortunately the people of this country have no choice about it now. L5 will have to be used due to the lack of planning for the winter months since last March. Nobody wants it but it will happen.
@Are You For Real: yes he does all the family who’s loved one’s died in nursing homes
@LangerDan: No he doesn’t. The country isn’t ready for a level 5 lockdown. This time around it has to be discussed with the people who are going to lose their job and who’s businesses will be ruined. I generally find that it’s people on pensions or those employed by the government are constantly looking for lockdown. There has to be another way. Just look at the numbers not attending for their cervical check to see where all of this is going.
@Gerrard: do the numbers look like people are listening to advice.
@Tom Leddy: Discussed with the people who might lose their jobs? What planet are you on? Nice idea but a bit of a fairytale. They are only waiting until the new fines are brought in, as they know voluntarily compliance will not be the same this time. Ironically the longer they delay the new lockdown the longer it will need to be in place. They should also realise this time that a graduated opening is pretty pointless, as cases will rise regardless of how you open. The only real point of graduated opening was to keep pubs closed.
@NotMyIreland: Why should anyone listen to advice from someone who’s name is not my Ireland? This is everyone’s Ireland. Your part of it and if there is something you don’t agree with then you should show your face and campaign to change it. Using such a name achieves nothing. Anyway I ment to discuss it as in discuss it in the media and in government before we lockdown. The people need to know when it’s happening and what the exit plan is.
@LangerDan: he wants the limelight back. He will not give an ounce of an apology to Tony Holohan or anyone else. Bottom feeder.
@Gerrard:It wasn’t CMO who leaked that letter to Minister for Health and he wasn’t happy that happened.Normal procedure is there’s more discussions after these letters with Government,Government makes their decision and these letters are then published for the public to see.As CMO said ,these procedures weren’t followed!
Government set up these 5 Levels,surely its reasonable to assume that Government should have formulated financial plans over the different Levels!Tanaiste gave the impression that there’s no financial plans for Level 5 at least!This is Government’s job not NPHET’s job!
The virus transmission can escalate very quickly and there must be FLEXIBILITY re the different Levels to respond to a worrying deterioration in the situation!No use waiting until things are out of control!
We’ve seen in the past that FG Government’s inadequate response to crisis after crisis in health that developed into an ongoing National emergency in Health and is the main reason why people voted the way they did in General Election in February according to the Exit Poll done after people voted!
@David Corrigan: Big V has now “thought it through!!”.
@LangerDan: He owes Houlihan nothing of the sort – this is a political decision, Houlihan stepped over the line – he is only an advisor, if he wants to be the decision maker he should run for public office.
@David Corrigan:
All the new cases are around the ni border – shut down the border now and stop people crossing over between the 2 countries…
Leave us at level 3 and we’ll build up immunity to the second wave of the virus and come out stronger without having to shut the whole country down and get us into more financial difficulties..
@NotMyIreland: Can you imagine the chaos coming up to Christmas if they lockdown. When they reopen there will be pure bedlam with people trying to shop and stock up for Christmas. It will cause even more problems. They need to see if level 3 works. The amount here screaming for a lockdown obviously have no worries about where the next paycheck is coming from.
@LangerDan: What an absolute plonker. This fella had a big Trump moment on TV slagging off Tony Holohan and now hes repeating the warning and advice that Holohan gave the nation. Feck sake Varadkar, you are now making M.Martin look good and a half decent Taoiseach.
@LangerDan: No apology needed , Are we going to have a lockdown every 3 months and totally wreck the country.
@LangerDan: humble pie for 1 please
@Maxy: yes the 41% of yesterday’s cases recorded in Dublin, Cork and Galway alone are directly as a result of Northern Ireland. C’mon we all need to take responsibility for the situation we are in and stop trying to deflect by finding someone else to blame.
@LangerDan: He doesnt owe him anything.
@Pauline Gallagher: At the time of writing, 1766 people would disagree with you.
@Tom Leddy: Now you’ve had your little rant about my name I hope you feel better. I agree we need it to be explained to keep people on side. I also agree that an exit plan needs to be set out, not in the context of time but more that the criteria which need to be met are set out. Ie. What does the case per 100k have to drop to, what positivity precentage must be achieved, what rate of hospital and icu admissions can we handle and what R0 is acceptable ect.
@Kyle: He’s a GP, not an epidemiologist.
@Mickety Dee: There are representatives of the HSE on NPHET!
@The Firestarter: You could argue that as he is unaffected by economic outcomes, he is able to argue what is best from a HEALTH perspective. Health is your wealth etc.
@David Corrigan: The public was given the impression that this was landed on them Sunday evening however we’ve heard since that CMO contacted the Minister for Health Saturday and he notified the Taoiseach of another emergency NPHET meeting on Sunday.
Before that meeting CMO spoke to Minister for Health about deep concerns re latest stats and mentioned Level 4.He said he asked the Minister did he have any particular concerns.Minister then contacted Taoiseach.
After that emergency NPHET meeting,CMO had a lengthy discussion with Minster for Health re Level 5 and later,as per procedure,sent a detailed letter to the Minister cc to Department of the Taoiseach.He finished the letter as usual by saying they could discuss it further.But as CMO said this didnt happen as someone leaked the email!Now these letters from CMO to Minister for Health are always published so why was it leaked.?My guess is there’s no finalized financial plans for Level 5!
@LangerDan: That may be true, but health isn’t going to keep a roof over your head or your business afloat. Also all of these lockdowns are driving people to the depths of despair, and worse in some cases.
@LangerDan: Agree totally, Varadker’s assault on NPHET was pathetic, they are after all comprised of people whose work is dominated by a passion to protect the population, Leo’s response was petulant in the extreme.
@The Firestarter: I agree. Which is why I am so critical of the government’s preparedness for a second wave. We should not be facing an “Economy Vs Health” scenario. They’ve had months to prepare.
@Nuala Mc Namara: That’s the problem. They wasted seven months and have no plan B.
@Tom Leddy: Tom,I spoke to a business owner who said that it would be better to have to go to Level 5 for 3/4weeks than stopping than Level 3 for several weeks/months!
98% of all businesses are SME’s and need Government supports to stay viable,grants would be better in the short-term -medium term,their commercial rents/mortgages for that month could be delayed (much better than having to close for several months with bills mounting!)
If these businesses supported ,they could continue and workers wouldn’t lose their jobs.
@Michael Maher: What do you suggest then ? Open up everything and just let the virus run amok ? If the experts are saying we need to lockdown but you disagree you need to come up with an alternative plan that doesn’t include people dropping like flies.
@The Firestarter: Unfortunately the lockdowners on here don’t want to hear that.
@NotMyIreland: How do you know that. Can you supply the corroborating evidence please.
@Fintan Mac Giolla Pharic: Yes,the CMO and NPHET advise the Government on latest stats and epidemiological modelling research and advise what response is needed,they are the public health experts!
As CMO stated, the Minister of Health then discusses the matter further and Government makes their decision whether to follow all the advice or not and Government hasn’t always followed their advice!
He absolutely should apologize to CMO and NPHET for undermining them in public!Those who have been critical of the public health advice and guidelines and NPHET for months now praised Tanaiste for his attacks on CMO and NPHET!It was a disgrace!
@Fintan Mac Giolla Pharic: Holohan didn’t actually step over the line. Someone else in nphet leaked it.
@Nuala Mc Namara: I think this Government never envisaged a nationwide lockdown when they put together this plan. The CMO recommendation was the next level they never wanted to go back to. The Government we’re planning on basis of a number of counties on differing levels not a level 6.
@Franny Ando: How do I know what? Sorry I’ve lost you?
@Oscar Wilde: Level 5 was recommended because of the serious concerns CMO and NPHET had re latest stats then and epidemiological modelling projections….a week later the situation is worse.
There should be flexibility in the Levels to respond urgently,the virus doesn’t care about what Government wants or if financial plans for ready for the different Levels!
The problem re the different Levels is:
: there was no consequences for breaching the public health guidelines, :there’s no published financial plans re the different Levels to reassure businesses,workers and families,
:there’s insufficient resources for testing and contact tracing.
@The Firestarter: without your Health.
Your finished..what good is the money
When your too sick to spend it..
@David Corrigan: All Leo does is throw shapes and steal the thunder while his “boss” Martin procrastinates. Tweedle-Dum & Tweedle-Dee.
@NotMyIreland: cases in Dublin, Galway etc coming from Northern Ireland.
@Franny Ando: that was sarcasm directed towards a poster who claimed the increase in cases were all in border counties. Hence the fact I said stop making excuses
@Jeannie Laing: Well its handy to pay doctors, dentists, prescriptions even hospital attendance.
@NotMyIreland: fair enough:) thought I missed something.
The only thing that will reduce the spread of the virus is sticking to the guidelines. The problem is some people don’t and no penalty in place for non-compliance so here we are again with rising / high numbers of infections.
@Damian Moylan: 100%. If strict and clear guidelines were given for phase 2, as well as clear education and information on trajectory, outcomes and measures maybe we could reduce the numbers.
I was lucky enough to get away to a hotel in wexford a couple of weeks ago. It was run brilliantly, everyone wore masks, hand sanitiser everywhere, plenty of space to move around and social distance. I felt very safe.
On the other hand, I’ve been to cafés where staff are on top of each other, tables are on top of each other, they are only wearing visors, it felt like there was no pandemic.
Support businesses to stay open by giving them clear guidelines and help to achieve them, then if they don’t, shut them down. That way the economy and our mental health has some chance.
@Damian Moylan: it’s running rampant in schools and workplaces where social distancing is not possible (some shops, meat plants etc.). Most people transmit it before they even know they have it. The vast majority of people are sticking to guidelines, some are not and they are a problem but total under resourcing of the contact tracing system and lack of effort to source rapid tests is the main problem here. Government need quarantine centres too for people who live in overcrowded housing. A decade a punch down Fine Gael policies are coming him to roost here.
@Motherofthree:
My husband and I got to go to Youghal for a couple of days last month too and and also felt safe in our accommodation.
We too played our part too by eating outdoors where possible, ( nice weather did help) and avoiding the bar.
I think that pubs should be allowed to open up again and that off licences and sale of drink from supermarkets should be closed.
At least you have some control when people have to socially distance to have a drink
@Damian Moylan: could you explain how we reduced numbers in May when masks were not mandatory?
It wasnt a guideline at the time?
@Mary Walshe: So people who like to have a glass of wine with their dinner at home could no longer do that because they must be supervised tk have a drink? When it comes to house parties we should punish the culprits not the country.
@Macca Attack: he’s been talking shiiite for the last few days in here. Best to just ignore.
@Vladimir Macro: The virus spreads in water vapour that is exhaled – that is the method of transmission. Respiratory ffp3 masks filter the air in both directions and have an edge seal to face which is 95% sealed. Surgical masks and simple face coverings also help, because, even if some virus gets through the viral load will be lower as some is entrapped by the face covering. I saw 20-30 students (17ish) walking thru town going back to school after lunch – no distancing, no masks at all. They go to svhool, give it to teachers, go to the Centra shop at lunch transmit to everyone there. I regard food shops as very high risk and wear an ffp3 respiratory mask.
@Vladimir Macro: have you forgotten being stuck within 2km of your house? Or are you a bot?
@Mary Walshe: it’d be great for pubs to open up, provide employment for staff and interaction between people but at the end of the day who can afford to frequent a pub…many people are on reduced hours or claiming covid payment just to pay for the basic needs. If we’re confined to our household then off licence makes sense – to me anyway. I’m going slightly bonkers at home – evenings can be very long and taxing on mental health…I’ve done a bit of DIY to try to take the monotony out of the evenings and get away from netflix by doing things n sticking on spotify. I know I’m not the only person feeling this way – it’s getting very depressing. I was just listening to the news and heard 43% are looking for a level 5 lockdown – if it ends up being implemented and unsuccessful I don’t know what’s going to happen.
@Motherofthree: well said
@Motherofthree: Sounds great, see it can be done. I stayed in a hotel in Galway a few weeks ago – everything perfectly organized, everyone wearing masks. Outside seating for those wishing to avoid the bar which was very quiet tbh
@Mary Walshe: I have been working throughout this lockdiwn doing shift work, And come the weekend I would have a few drinks and chill out at home.
Going to a pub for a €9 meal and a time slot doesn’t interest me.
So why should the off licence be closed and force people to pubs to have a drink plus there is less taxi about so.trying to get there and back can be a pain.
@Macca Attack: is it even possible for you to comprehend the seasonality of the virus?
@NotMyIreland: i think I’m a bot but I’m not sure. Do bots have emotions?
@Vladimir Macro: so far the virus has liked spring, summer and really loves autumn. I’m guessing winter will be no different!
@Motherofthree: Agree. While I support lockdowns, we have learned nothing from them. No fines and while Gardai are on the roads, they are waving you on. I was stopped coming home from work this week and when I went to give my letter as essential worker I was told no need, they were checking Insurance and Tax. We need more fines on premises not complying, people not complying and businesses not complying. As for local lockdowns, they are a joke. During the one for Offaly, I left and entered the county everyday on a main route and never met a Guard. I think they dont have the powers and if Im right I dont blame the Gardai. Why give them a job to do with their hands tied behind their backs. I have to say I feel safer when they are in the roads. So no point in Government saying lockdown and showing all the rules when no statutory body has power to back it up. Local lockdowns would work really well if properly implemented with laws and punishment behind them. Otherwise, we are faced with Multiple National Lockdowns.
@Aidan Mitchell: he’s been talking s’ite since the start of the pandemic, not just for the past few days.
@Paul: That’s because you have been watching RTE.
Look at the charts. It’s all freely available.
@Macca Attack: Lockdown ended beginning of May. Numbers continued to drop dramatically. Aug10th masks were made mandatory and case numbers started to rise again. I have no idea if they were the cause but its a strange coincidence:)
@Franny Ando: Reopening of society was accelerated on 29th June,it was supposed to have 4 phases but Government accelerated the plan!
The transmission of the virus increased&rise of more cases in mid July!
Not everyone wore masks or they wore them under their noses and there were gatherings and house parties,etc too!
@Motherofthree: hand sanitiser everywhere?
How about personal responsibility and but your own sanitiser and not expect it to be provided on demand. Have it in your house, your car, your pocket or bag.
Problem is people with lack of personal responsibility.
@Damian Moylan: 7 months in and this still needs explaining to people, incredible….
@Serge the llama: you’re missing my point. I have it, but some businesses are managing brilliantly and being exemplars for a low risk environment. If there was more investment, support and repercussions to make the guidelines more consistent so more businesses operated in the same way, maybe we wouldn’t need level 3 or 4 or 5!
@Damian Moylan: they’re only guidelines, not laws. You can’t impose penalties on guidelines. Why don’t they pass laws. ? Against the constitution most likely. So they’re asking people to lock themselves down, isolate themselves, quarantine. It’s like asking us to create our own personal little concentration camp with fear as walls and rumours as guards. Not for me, nah.
Today Varadkar says level 5 in Israel is working. On Monday he said level 5 in Israel is not working. He will lie and spin always to suit his agrument
@tirnanog1979: hard lockdown for extended midterm with a level 3 finish and a save Christmas campaign. Not to hard to read between the lines
@tirnanog1979: Bit of Trump in him !!
@tirnanog1979: in Israel you will end up in jail for not towing the party line and they have conscription. Is that where we are going Leo?
Lock down now and stop the dilly dallying. Health before economics.
@gerardfleming: And cripple the country which was just finding its feet again after the last crash. Protect the elderly and vulnerable and get on with our lives.
@Darren Lambe: stop talking sense!
@Darren Lambe: gotta be done NOW
@Emer Caffrey: Yea to hell with peoples mental health
@Darren Lambe: What is your vision for protecting the vulnerable? The HSE says somewhere between 25-33% of the population have some condition that could define them as vulnerable, if you are expecting them and the elderly to cocoon you will just as quickly cripple the country, just in more chaotic ways.
@D Mems: It is not up to me to come up with measures to protect them, that is the job for the well paid ,elected members of our government. Maybe start by giving gardai some power to punish people who are not taking this seriously.
@gerardfleming: you’re missing the fact that health and economics are linked. You can’t put one before the other.
@Darren Lambe: yet despite the fact you’re not prepared to propose solutions yourself you’re going to spend your time critiquing those that do, who it is also not up to? Very helpful
@Darren Lambe: I wouldn’t think a trembling of the level of homelessness and doubling of child poverty levels was Ireland ‘finding its feet’
@D Mems: exactly!
@D Mems: It is easy to say another lockdown, very helpful.
@Darren Lambe: stop it your talking too much common sense. Now come the comments lockdown lockdown.
@Darren Lambe: You think ‘our lives’ are so divorced from the vulnerable and elderly? Wrong. Most families have either elderly parents or vulnerable sick adults or kids. There is no separation as you seem to think there is. We are all in this together, whether we like it or not.
@gerardfleming: economics is health. Educate yourself.
@gerardfleming: If you had a job, mortgage to pay, kids to feed you wouldn’t be mouthin about lockdowns. Don’t want to hear your life story if your replying, just go away and get a life for yourself. Good man
@Paul Whitehead: yet lockdowns do precisely that. They separate families. The first lockdown was particularly cruel as it meant the over 70s were imprisoned in their homes. They couldn’t go out and no one could go in
@Darren Lambe: Fully agree with you. The WHO have pleaded with countries not to go into full lockdown to protect mental health & the economy. Also, dont know what Leo is talking about putting in support for workers & business who may have to shut if there is full lockdown. Does he not realise that there are business already shut with no support. He is living in dream world. All about Leo.
@gerardfleming: How effective will our health system be in dealing with covid once we can no longer access the debt markets to run the country? We’ve 6 months of liquidity left in the public finances – our deficit after that point is currently unfunded, which doesn’t include the refinancing requirement on existing debt.
@Darren Lambe: The police commissioner has said all along that they want to “police with concensus” as opposed to enforcement. Rank and file Gardai dont want the job of enforcement and issuing fines relating to a lockdown. A two week shut down could be enough to reset providing they close schools during this time and they stop the flow of people both ways between NI and ROI. Economically this may be a better alternative than plodding along an ever increasing curve until a lockdown is required that could potentially be even longer. The governments 5 stage plan was intended to be in phases with time between each phase and doesnt appear to have had any financial planning put in place behind it. Optics and no substance.
@Darren Lambe: Unfortunately it’s not as simple as just letting the virus have its way Darren. As well as the obvious issue of rising death rates associated with such a strategy there is accumulating evidence now regarding long term sequelae in peer reviewed medical journals, affecting a significant proportion of infectees regardless of disease severity/age. As studies emerge it’s becoming increasingly clear that it’s not a rare occurrence as we may have once thought. We have to take the financial impact of this dilemma into consideration as we’ll need to borrow money from the markets soon and we don’t want any further strain on our already burdened economy. Last thing we want is a clogged up health system or an impaired proportion of our workforce from the infection’s after effects.
@Darren Lambe: It’s really not helpful to pit this situation as a lockdown vs libertarian dispute. There isn’t a government on the planet that wants to enforce a lockdown unless absolutely necessary. Lockdowns SHOULD BE a last resort blunt measure to stop exponential growth from getting out of control and to buy a government time to put test and trace measure into place, which have been dismantled in this country as of July yay !!.. Those types of unobtrusive proactive measures can keep us ahead of the game and invalidate the need for further lockdowns. Also, protecting the vulnerable (25-30%) looks to be a very difficult thing to achieve considering we are inextricably linked. Have you any ideas how that would work?.. Thanks
@gerardfleming: The econmonices pays for the health system. No economics =No Health System
@D Mems: There’s over 1M people who have underlying conditions ,of all ages,in Ireland who live normal lives on medication including workers!
The worrying aspect about long Covid ,is there will be more and more people in Ireland with underlying conditions at least in the medium term!
@gerardfleming: and who will pay for it, genius, not the layabouts,
@Darren Lambe: Are you even paying attention to what is going on. Stop with this kind of rhetoric. This thing can kill randomly, not just elderly or vulnerable. It has serious long lasting effects on asymptomatic people, blood clots, enlarged hearts etc. I love this back seat governing thinking you know better than scientists and experts.
@gerardfleming: no.
Lockdown didn’t work the last time, why would it work this time?
@Bryan Breen: the numbers of infections dropped to single figures and deaths from the virus were practically non-existant, do tell how the previous lockdown didn’t work?
@D Mems: It didn’t work because as soon as we opened up the country the rates went back up. We won’t be able to get rid of the virus completely. Is the plan to continually lockdown the country every few months to the detrimental of the country?
@Bryan Breen: After the upcoming lockdown the very same ramp in infections will happen again. What they are trying to do is protect our third world health service. If they allow a run on health service i.e. flu and Covid-19, then it will crumble completely and law & order will go out the window altogether.
It is a tricky balance to get right i.e. protect the health system, keep cash flowing in and protect our people.
@David Corrigan: if and it’s a big if they invest in a proper contact tracing team, properly resourced then it could be kept low as we re-open. Also look into securing rapid tests and test them at the airports. If they get cases very low encourage people (limited amount) to come for random testing to pick up silent cases/clusters. A lot of experts and doctors are saying a similar thing, hunt down the virus, breaks chains of transmission.
@David Corrigan: Agree that it’s a tricky balance. The Government has had 7 months now to plan for this coming winter season to ensure the hospitals have the adequate facilities to treat Covid and all other conditions. The HSE budget this year was €17bn with an extra €2-3bn added due to this emergency. Plan should be to ensure the hospitals are set up correctly and not to continue to lock us down every few months
@Bryan Breen: so your arguement that the lockdown didn’t work is that, whilst the lockdown was happening the numbers were down, but when we eased the lockdown the numbers went back up? Do you have any idea how the concepts of logic and evidenced based decision making work?
@D Mems: You are only focusing on Covid there. During lockdown the numbers were low but all other health (physical & mental) and economic conditions were being ignored! We came out of lockdown and the numbers have gone back up. By your logic we just stay in a lock down state until there’s a vaccine?
@Aidan O’ Neill: I agree with you Aidan but I don’t think the people in charge have the hunger or drive to achieve this. They released an app and made a huge song and dance about it but not a word about it since. It’s like they just throw mickey mouse solutions at the problem and walk away thinking they did a great job.
Your suggestions on here today make a lot of sense and would not be difficult to get up and running. There are other opportunities like using in house companies and implement their solutions also. There is so much positive things that can be done to help the fight against C-19 but I just don’t see anything happening. It’s like they are winging it and hoping it goes away.
@Bryan Breen: Took 5 months for the numbers to get back to current levels., that means its effective
@D Mems: agreed. One of the big blunders was the dismantling of our test and trace system in July which was put into place in the time we bought ourselves from employing the initial lockdown.. this method could have kept us ahead of the game and invalidated the need for further lockdowns , unfortunately now we are just reacting once more !!
Something like a level 5? genius, if only someone foresaw that sooner although has Leo thought this through?
The recommendation to move to L5 last week was ridiculous. It doesn’t mean we won’t get to L5. But jumping from 2 to 5 made no sense. Leo was right last week AND he is right this week. I think most ppl understand that.
@lambda sensor: rig bots out in force this morning
@lambda sensor: but people can’t grasp that saying two contradictory things 1 week apart may not be a contradiction. It’s these nuances that make this issue and the masses don’t do nuance. And the average journal reader needs to Google its definition.
@lambda sensor: he was wrong…100% wrong … People will die because of that decision and that is no exaggeration.
@David Clements: As usual David we all must admire your superior intellect! I think I read somewhere on this article when asked to give specifics for what should have been done by government, your ideas essentially boiled down to, have a plan, stop the leaks and lockdown! But yeah your so much more intelligent than the average journal.ie reader! LOL!
@NotMyIreland: I never advocate lockdown. You’ve me confused with someone else…
This lad should just keep his mouth closed in future, I don’t remember Simon Coveney getting this much say on the matter when he was Tánaiste. He’s not doing himself any favours going against NPHED last week and then repeating their advise like it’s his own idea the next week
@pkunzip doom2.zip: Leo is the co-Taoiseach did you not know that? LOL
@pkunzip doom2.zip: Loves the mirror, the camera, the drama, any bit of media that boosts his popularity.
Nevermind that he is yet again undermining the taoiseach, sure it’s all fair I politics, even during a pandemic!?!
I have to commend the psychology of the government and NPHET, they have their citizens practically begging to be locked down.
@Michael Mc Carthy:
I find that fascinating too.
You put a population in fear and it is so easy to control them.
@Peter O Donoghue: Exactly.
@Michael Mc Carthy: Absolutely. I’m stunned by the ignorance of some of the comments calling for lockdown. Hardly surprising if people are only looking to NPHET for their guidance. Probably the same people who criticize you for looking at YouTube for alternative views. Even WHO in last couple of days now warning against lockdowns but likely won’t be reported here. https://youtu.be/gJq8MBgYJ4Q
@Peter O Donoghue: The Government have been capably assisted by RTE, with Virgin and the Independent happy to lend a hand too.
Its going to happen soon and the government are going to look like gobdaws
@Brian Dunne: They are doing a good job of that anyway
@Brian Dunne: so what happens after level 5? How long do we lockdown for? Do we then go back to level 4? Level 3? Virus will be suppressed completely and won’t rise again.. correct?? People on here screaming for lockdown who are not going to be impacted and who haven’t a bulls notion what comes after
@Charlie Murphy: im not so much suggesting it should happen,im saying it will happen. And im certainly not immune to the effects of a lockdown
@Charlie Murphy: hit the nail on the head. Go to L5, bring back the PUP to previous levels, we rack up debt, businesses fold, high unemployment. We will never achieve Covid zero, need to find a middle ground.
Then after the next lockdown when the numbers rise again in a few weeks, do we lock down again and after that lock down when the numbers rise again do we lock down again? Do we keep doing this till we have ruined our country in every way, economically, socially, spiritually before we realise we have to learn to live with this or do we realise now that we have to learn to live with this which will save us a great deal of damage which I mentioned above.
@Peter O Donoghue: Whatever it takes to protect our health service really…
Isn’t it fairly obvious?! The main problem is in Dublin. Lock down the county boundary. Stop them spreading it all over the country. Why did they give them a weeks notice before they did?! Give them the chance to go to their respective holiday homes all over the state. Close down Dublin and reassess every two weeks to isolate the clusters they have generated all over the place. There’s your circuit breaker. Punishing the masses for the discretions of the minority solves nothing.
@Sean O’Reilly: dublin is not the problem. Cases have plateaued and per capita nowhere near as bad as other counties.
North is the problem now. No point in level 5. We need to enforce level 3 and see if that sorts it first before we do a level 5.
No nationwide measures. County by county is what’s best.
@Sean O’Reilly: Your issue seems to be more about Dublin than Covid. THEM and THEY as if the virus was a Dublin issue that infected the entire country. What about the 10s of 1000s of people who commute into dublin on a daily basis for work etc and then go back home , what about the 1000s who work in Dublin Monday to Friday and go home for the weekends. Maybe a lockdown on Dublin would do us a favour and protect Dublin from commuters bringing it into Dublin.
@Nioe: they had over 200 cases yesterday
@Sean O’Reilly: can the mulchie anti Dublin sentiment! Look at the figures in Cork, Donegal, Galway to name a few! Is that all Dubs travelling the country spreading “their” virus??? Unstick your mind from that GAA parochial tiny mindset and see the bigger picture!
@Barry Evans: The cases in Donegal come from….Derry (vv high #s there)
@Sean O’Reilly: Dublin people have to work ya know, cant just swan off to holiday homes at the drop of a hat ( u seem to think every Dublin person owns a holiday home )
Stop chewing ur sour grapes about Dublin and look to your own county.
@Sean O’Reilly: county Dublin has 40 percent of the population and around 40 percent of the cases so why do you think it’s worse than anywhere else?
@Sean O’Reilly: Dublin is not even really Irish nowadays anyway. It is an International Globalist free zone.
@Sean O’Reilly: go back and read your statistics there buddy. A few weeks back things looked like they were getting a little out of control in Dublin. The rest of the country seems to have done a bang up job of catching up. I’m in Clare where apparently we have one of the highest rates of infection in the whole country. The sooner we stop using county borders as ammunition to blame people and realise this virus is gaining a strong hold on the country as a whole the better. Clearly the virus couldn’t give a fiddlers if you’re a culchie or a jackeen or from the north or south of the island. It’s not a competition, there is no gold medal at the end of this for anyone
How will the N.I. situation be managed? High numbers of infections there and a lot of cross border traffic eg. Derry – Donegal and we’ve seen high numbers on the ROI side of the border eg. Stranolar and Lifford.
Oh Leo I dont know whether to laugh, cry or just be mortified for you. Back tracking at its finest
@Val Kavanagh: how is he backtracking? Do you realise different decisions can be made over different days based on new info?
He’s a serious dope at times but let’s not lose common sense here.
@Correct Opinion: Yep he was given advice , he knocked it back, said they did not know what they were talking about, now he is agreeing with them , more people will die because we delayed lockdown by a week.
@Correct Opinion: He’s a slime ball, undermining everyone at every opportunity to try and make himself look good.
He advertised the first lockdown that it was needed the give time to increase the capacity of the heath services. He got the longest lockdown of the EU to facilitate that and he has nothing to show for.
He was a former minister of health and gaps were already called out when he was in charge of the fifths most expensive health services in the world (per capita)
He’s nothing but a blender and dangerous for this country.
@Vanessa: what’s a blender?
@John Lyons: Blinder
LOCKDOWN DIDN’T WORK THR FIRST TIME OBVIOUSLY SO WHY WOULD WE DO IT AGAIN
@James: Even in all caps, it did work tons point, it ‘flattened the curve’ and practically emptied the hospitals for a while, look back at the infections graph the dip in the middle was the lockdown reducing infections: unfortunately no cure came and we’ve got to manage this again, noone wants a lockdown but no one wants a Bergamo situation
@Spartacus Ireland: * to a point
@James: numbers during lockdown went down, lockdown was eased and numbers went up. Seems like pretty solid evidence for the 1st lockdown achieving its goal of suppressing the virus, problem is many, including possibly yourself by your above comment, believed it would eradicate the virus.
@D Mems: People not wearing masks when lockdown ended also a factor in helping the virus get a foothold again. Mask wearing happened a good while after lockdown ended.
@James: because it did work!
Apart from having zero scientific evidence to support their effectiveness, and an increasing array of global studies that prove the diametric opposite, what is becoming clear is that lockdowns and increased restrictions on personal freedoms and liberties have the most support from the sectors of society that will be least affected by them.
Neither Mr Varadkar nor Mr Holohan or their ilk will have to struggle should such measures be imposed, unlike many others such as those made unemployed, small entrepreneurs, people with mental health issues (despite yesterday being Mental Health Day) or people in the artistic communities, and I’m sure there are many more that I’m leaving out.
So much for the trite catchphrase “We’re all in this together”.
@Garry Coll: I support the measures which help reduce case numbers, safeguarding our healthcare system and the third of our population considered vulnerable. And I lost my job on Friday as a result of them.
@NotMyIreland:
Troll.
@Garry Coll: No Garry, I have often agreed with you on aspects of the debate on various aspects relating to the virus, but now, because the situation has deteriorated so quickly, I don’t I’m obviously a Troll. I will caveat my support for the measures even though I was laid off on Friday with the fact I am in a moderately high risk category.
@NotMyIreland: So sorry to hear that, wishing you all the best in the future.You are 100% right!
@Nuala Mc Namara: Thanks Nuala its a temporary lay off, but who knows for how long. Everyone seemed to be worried about those of us that worked in hotels or restaurants before level 3 was announced. If they were truly thinking of hospitality staff they would support extra measures to get us back to level 2, as for many in hotels and restaurants level 3 means lay offs and so prolonging level 3 and then going to level 4 or 5 after just prolongs our lay offs.
Once all those in safe jobs stay safe then sure why not!? To hell with the rest.
Time for the Swedish model.
The lockdowns and face masks are clearly not working.
@Dave Grant: The Swedish model likely will never work when implemented in Ireland, and is considered a prime example in how not to do it if we barely have enough beds to begin with. Masks may not appear to work, but if all of us didn’t have them it would be worse in outcome than what we currently are doing.
@Dave Grant: Sweden have more cases/million and more deaths/million?
@Dave Grant: the Swedes have a much better concept of social responsibility and adherence to rules
@Paul Cunningham: Not by the WHO who heapped praise on the Swedish approach,. Going to guess they have a more cohesive society after we finally realise there was the best way.
There are 1000 are cases . Not 1000 illnesses. Lockdown for what? For the cases to increase again after ? To increase in house transmission by locking people at home in the winter?
We are always hit with these pearls of incompetence on a Sunday.
@Isabel Oliveira: Ah yes because people won’t enter their homes unless under lockdown.
Another one of those pearls from yourself.
@Rochelle: That would only apply to those following the rules and those have anyway reduced numbers of visitors.
@Isabel Oliveira: lockdown to buy time.
We are treading water until a vaccine is available.
To see what happens when you don’t act, see Brazil
@Hector Son: For what? As long as those goofs are in the government they won’t do anything to increase capacity. We will have the same situation in no time if it’s just a ‘short’ lockdown..
@Vanessa: read what I said
@Isabel Oliveira: nobody is locked into their house !!!
Should have kept your mouth shut Leo. You were doing so well. But theask has slipped now.
@Thomas Quinn: the mask
You can’t do a “short, sharp” lockdown from 1000 cases a day and expect to get it back under control. They reference New Zealand and how they got cases back to a level where contact tracing could be done but they never got close to 1000 a day. It’s impossible to do contact tracing even with a couple of hundred a day. Look at Victoria in Oz, they took over 2 months to go from 700 cases per day and are still around 10 per day now even with the strictest lockdown there is.
It’s time to stand up and fight the virus and go for heard immunity, get our society back, reclaim our lives whatever the cost. Cowering in our houses hasn’t worked. Time for change.
Then the cases will rise again then another hard lock down it is just not working, we need to look at hospitalisation not a the infection rate or how the virus is infection people if people are a symptomatic or can the PCR test be improved. Even WHO say lockdown only work for a short time and destroy people lifes, but then again Leo you and your lot would not even take a pay cut you give yourself a rise. You had months to sort this out now again the one who are following the guidance will pay again.
Different story from last week when he threw his toys out of the pram because it was suggested.
@Sinead Ni Coscraigh: it’s almost as if opinions and decisions can change over multiple days.
And almost as if they need to manage strain on the health services carefully
@Correct Opinion: Yeah, he’s a narcissistic cry baby who loves attention. That’s one thing that never changed from him. And what about the smoothie incident?? Not a word said. Wonder why that is.
We tried that in March. Remember 2 weeks and all the images of a line of lit matches with one missing – circuit breaker?
What puzzles me is what is causing this huge spike. During the summer, people socialised in large numbers. Gathering at the canals, house parties, golf parties, cycling groups. Hotels, restaurants, pubs selling 9e meals were all busy. We had large outbreaks in building sites, meat plants and DP centres. Yet none of that lead to huge numbers of cases, or, more importantly, hospitalisations. What’s the problem now? Schools are back, some students are back in student accommodation. There have been outbreaks in nursing homes again. We know the median age of someone testing positive is 30, but what’s the median age of a person in hospital?
@Anne Marie Devlin: gaa county final season has a lot to answer for
@Anne Marie Devlin: we are not given any decent stats. The government have all the data regarding clusters and transmission but they think joe public is too thick to interpret and act on it. This is probably generally true but they should be able to come up with a more targeted plan than the 11 day lockdown they plan for Halloween. I for one would like more data to see the justification for their plans but won’t hold my breath
@Brian Gregan: where is the proof of that? GAA has been very proactive and cautious. Why is the government not telling us how many cases were traced to matches? I don’t believe for a second that 50 or 200 people at an outdoor venue is a major cause of transmission
@John Lyons: why contact sports were allowed again while we hadn’t eliminated the virus is mind boggling!breathing,sweating,bleeding on top of each other and teams from other parts of the county.the crowd at the matches wasnt the problem either,that was bizarre rule as plenty of space to distance.the problem came with the celebrations and house parties after.know of 2 seperate clubs locally who’s celebrations were super spreaders.
@Anne Marie Devlin: the virus has been through the community in the last 7 months with people not even realising that they had it. The PCR testing threshold has been called out as being too high. Both of those together means that people who may still have a trace of the virus from months ago are getting positive results. Also the PCR tests are not accurate with false positives a regular occurrence. The case rates cannot be trusted and don’t really tell us much as many of the positive people will be fine. The number we need to follow is the ICU beds. Currently at 30
To all you lockdown lovers, what will YOU loose, probably your getting a government cheque, civil servant, welfare, tech or office at home on full pay. IE you loose nothing while all the sacrifices done by small business and those who work for them. If you want a lockdown, give back your tax payer supported income.
Angry comments about contradiction. Generic comment about how the Government are incompetent. No comment about a solution. Who am I? 90% of people on here! Yawn! Have a look at your lives and let me know what you are achieving! Everyone in government is working hard
@T Dawg: There are plenty of ideas being thrown around in the comment sections all week. Your refusal to allow your beloved government to be questioned is quiet startling to be honest.
@David Corrigan: no problems with questions. It’s the foundation of democracy. It’s the usual people bashing and name calling rampant here which is uninspiring. Let’s have your top ideas David and the articles you first stated them in. I welcome the info.
@T Dawg: are they? Then why did they not set up contact tracing? Proper contact tracing. Why have the messages been so mixed? Why do they spend so much time on Twitter? Leo opened too early for the glory with no clear plan, Martin appointed a health minister somehow worse than the last one and they lurch from one disaster to another.
@Aidan O’ Neill: all hyperboles. Tell me exactly what you would do from this point on and we can judge you accordingly. What’s the play now?
@T Dawg: You want the opportunity to judge us but you don’t want us to judge the people who are supposed to be in charge?
I don’t understand your motives here.
@David Corrigan: again, I stated above I have no problems with questions. It’s the people bashing, name calling no solution offered hindsight is 2020 that I have a problem with. I take it you have no thoughts on solutions at this point and ramifications of those solutions?
@T Dawg: first of all, I’m not paid 100s of thousands to lead the country but anyway. Sharp lockdown for 4 weeks (with rent freeze, mortgage break, increased PUP), frame as saving Christmas or something. Completely ramp up the size of the contact tracing team and look to procure rapid tests (some are developed, some in development, one company have developed a 5 minute saliva test. Try to even have some secured for early next year if that’s as soon as we can get them). Once open another media campaign on social distancing and masks and very aggressive tracing of the virus by getting the contacts of all cases (we’re currently way understaffed in this area). Also agree to some sort of airport testing with other countries (at either end) for December as people wish to travel for Christmas. It won’t go away but if aggressively hunted down chains of transmission can be broken and rates kept low.
@T Dawg: “achieving”…our esteemed scientists in NPHET who are achievers recommended curbing this infection, that was the suggested “solution”: they were ignored: noone wants lockdown, noone!, buy noone wants our hospitals overrun: you forgot to include your solution
@Aidan O’ Neill: now we are talking Aidan. No need to comment on their pay. Remember many of these are school teachers etc with no formal training in diseases or finances. You would be paid the same if you ran and we’re successful. Now fair play on the ideas. The financial repercussions could be a challenge but some great stuff in there. Now how are you going to try get that across to our leaders? How will you help them? That’s what we need. Well done!
@Spartacus Ireland: I don’t have solutions. I’m not that intelligent but what I love to read are others solutions and proactive problem solving. It is very refreshing and inspiring. What I don’t care for is the generic rhetoric of government bashing. Gov questioning absolutely, but only from people who have thought it out and want to help solve the problem not from those anger filled people who just hate FFG.
@T Dawg: As I said, there have been plenty of ideas and solutions presented on these pages. You have to learn to filter out the name calling etc as that is part and parcel of a comments section.
The first thing that should have been done in March was to utilize all the resources the government have to develop a plan for the winter months. The clearly failed miserably with that task. In fact, they felt they could actually take a few weeks holidays during that period.
The second thing that they should have done is create a single point for delivering messages to the people of this country. For the last few months there has been many solo runs by politicians that people have no idea what’s going on.
The tax income has held up pretty well which is positive. Short term lock downs will work and that would keep businesses open and protect the health service. They should have used that option a lot earlier than now. Now we are probably going to need a 4 to 6 week lockdown and that is going to finish businesses altogether. The virus is bedded in now and will take a lot of shifting.
All in all, I think they have lost control and getting people to follow guidelines is going to be very difficult. The opportunity is gone for the “lets all work together” approach.
@David Corrigan: thanks David. And absolutely agree with a number of points above. There will certainly be plenty of time for post mortems after this. I’m all about the now. What do we need to do today, tomorrow, next week and so on to try limit the effect of this. I take it from your well written piece that it is a month long lockdown that must be done with the caveat and acknowledgement of the detrimental effect on businesses? How would you handle the implementation of stricter guidelines? If the businesses are going to be (fatally) hurt, that can’t be undermined by poor implementation of enforcement? Any ideas on this piece?
@T Dawg: Due to the delays in implementing solutions and getting our systems ready for the second surge this winter, I think the government will just ignore the cry for help from business owners. They have cut financial supports and definitely won’t back track those changes.
It is at the stage now where there is so much to do that they will just think “we will have to cut some of them loose” and that will be small and medium businesses.
@T Dawg: Thanks for the feedback. There is plenty reason to mention their pay. It’s out of tax payers money. If they have no idea at all about finance they shouldn’t be any sort of minister as budgeting is a huge part of any department’s portfolio. It’s an extremely complex situation to be fair. I have actually a few TDs with questions about things (not suggestions. I’m not an expert on this either, all of the above comes from reading up on the topic) and no replies. Economic aspect obviously needs to be taken into account but borrowing is now at 0% and it had been proven time and again if you invest in the economy it will be returned through tax growth in the future. The above are no brainers. It seems they though this was essentially over in June
@Aidan O’ Neill: an interesting comment Aidan. In terms of criteria to become TD and potentially a minister, do you thing there should be a level of training etc required? I agree with you with regards budgeting capability. Whilst backed by experts in different fields, the nature of our democracy is that the minister for a various function may have very little ability in that area. I do believe this is a deficiency in the system. On your other point, If you are chasing your TDs with questions and they are failing you, then absolutely call that out. My initial comment is largely at a specific type of person on here with a very different agenda than your own.
@T Dawg: hard to know but I think a minister should have at least of being party spokesperson on an issue. I don’t think first time TDs should me ministers either. I don’t think ministers should jump between posts either. What makes Simon Harris an expert in health and higher education?
At this stage it’s obvious that the people are not going to cop on and do the right thing by following the guidelines. The government are hoping they will in order to reduce the impact on businesses..
A short, complete lockdown, enforced properly by the Gards should work, seems to have worked in Melbourne
@Hector Son: It might work in the short term but what then? After the lockdown the numbers will go back up. The airports are open so no way to get rid of it completely. Lockdown again in a few months?
@Bryan Breen: yes, basically buying time until a vaccine is available. What’s the alternative?
@Hector Son: Ensure health system is set up to cope. Protect the vulnerable and let the rest of us get on with life and try to get the economy back on track.
@Bryan Breen: That would be the correct approach for sure Bryan but unfortunately they have missed the boat due to a very unproductive 7 months of planning and preparing by the people in charge.
From here on it is going to be panic driven lockdowns, no supports for people in trouble and general mayhem. They have already started saying this will cost each person in this country €10,000 i.e. 50 billion.
When you hear that kind of talk, you know they are just going to bash their way through this crisis with the panic lights & sirens flashing and blaring.
@David Corrigan: ok, David Corrigan replaces Martin as Taoiseach on 12th October. What are the first 3 things you would do differently?
@Bryan Breen: it’s about protecting the numbers in ICU. It needs to be managed.
@Bryan Breen: yes the numbers will go back up but it will stop the exponential rise. We might well have to keep doing this until medicine catches up
@Hector Son: 1.) Ban you from the Journal.
I would take a day off then. :-)
@David Corrigan: Haha, fair enough. Probably do wonders for my mental health.
@Hector Son: Nobody has all the answers in this mess unfortunately. All we can do is follow guidelines and hope there is a solution in the near future.
@Correct Opinion: Government paid millions to private hospitals to acquire beds during last lockdown. They were never used!! Now is the time to tell them to make these beds available again. That will take some of the pressure off.
When moving to a lockdown was proposed last week, he was the spokesman against it, now he’s the advocate for it…..He’s a total ” insert your preferred expletive here”
The WHO Special Envoy disagrees, and they have repeatedly advised governments not to use lockdowns as a strategy. They are ineffective and actually increase deaths. But for whatever reason NPHET continues to ignore science and evidence. https://youtu.be/gJq8MBgYJ4Q
@Hugh Corcoran: every country is using lockdowns, even Sweden in Stockholm. Lockdowns work very well as we know from earlier this year. It’s opening up and people adhering to advice and guidelines that’s the problem.
@GrumpyAulFella: god I don’t know why he shot himself in the foot with a YouTube link to a conspiracy theorist but he’s actually right, the WHO have essentially done a full 180 on lockdowns https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-who-backflips-on-virus-stance-by-condemning-lockdowns/news-story/f2188f2aebff1b7b291b297731c3da74
i have lost the will to comment
Leo on his knees,again,the mind boggles……..
Last weekends alleged debacle between Nphet and the government was just an early Christmas pantomime. This was always the plan. Why invent a series of levels unless you intend to implement them?
They are simply giving us a weeks grace to stock up and boost retail and get our flu jabs, whilst they restructure the P.U.P. system to accommodate even more job losses in the Arts, services, tourism sector, etc
People who are waiting for a test should be isolating until the result comes back. If they are running around the place they could be spreading it.
@Teresa O’Halloran: But it’s the asymptomatic spread that’s catching out us humans: not knowing your infected, it’s a tricky virus, not trivial to stop infection
@Spartacus Ireland: according to a study in the Lancet last week, the viral load of asymptomatic people is very low and they are less likely to spread the virus especially in no clinical settings https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30453-7/fulltext
Leo did his reputation a lot of damage last week, it was Tory-esque to attack expert advice like that.
Dr Holohan advice should have been accepted last week when he recommended phase 5.
He deserves an apology from the Government
@Dermot O’Reilly: level 3 will do the job if people comply. It’s in our hands.
@GrumpyAulFella: People are complying, more than ever, as shown by a recent study. Also how is an airborne virus in our hands?
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/much-of-what-we-think-about-covid-19-is-wrong-we-need-to-change-the-conversation-1.4375838?mode=amp
@Monster Munch: wear a mask.
@GrumpyAulFella: I do when necessary. As do 97 percent of people from HSE’s own survey.
We all know it’s coming
How many people have what we used to know as the flu?
@Imback: flu season hasnt hit yet so 0
No quackery and tinfoil hat lads here. But I thought this guy raises some interesting points.
@Henry Clarke: I’d be cautious of anything from someone whose twitter handle is FatEmperor
@D Mems: I was cautious. Watched the vid carefully…still haven’t come to any harm…yet? Here’s hoping I stay ok
@Henry Clarke: well worth the 30 minutes….
You should have done that at the beginning people do not listen because of the bl..dy attitude towards being told what to do,your never stop it now ,
The WHO doesn’t recommend shutdown.
I’m becoming more and more convinced we’re not acting on the best public health advice. This would be a disastrous move and indeed as Leo mentioned the “short” break may not be so short. What happened indoor dining proposed to be stopped for three weeks? The epidemic has now passed in Sweden. What can we learn here? Time we looked to better thought alternatives and, at least have a discussion on some of the ideas put forward by leading scientists in the great barrington declaration https://gbdeclaration.org/
@Toon Army: epidemic passed in Sweden? They are testing at a fraction of the rate that we are and are the lowest testers of any Nordic country with 10 to 15 times the fatality rate of those countries. No your ok thanks.
@GrumpyAulFella: What has testing got to do here? Deaths and ICU are the only valid measures to assess impact. Sweden has had between 0-3 a day since start of October for a population of 10M operating under no restrictions. Deaths higher in Denmark actually than Sweden right now but again, like most of Europe, at, very minute levels. Does this help?
How can we avoid level 5? We have groups of teenagers hanging around in groups of 20/30 no mask and definitely no social distance, I know kids will be kids but how can we stop the spread with this going on.
Also the amount of chin warmers in supermarkets and shopping centres is alarming.
I, like most people am trying my best to follow guidelines and avoid crowds and wear a mast but it feels like a losing battle because of a few selfish eejits
Israel entered lockdown on Setp 18th. Their plan doesn’t see them return to the equivalent of our level three restrictions until November 15th with the equivalent of our level 2 restrictions not until December 13th. Doesn’t seem like a short sharp lockdown really!
forget the side show between NEPHT and the Government – they are both doing their best from their own but different perspectives – the real problem is the behaviour of those people who blatantly and continuously fail to follow the rules – they are why we are in this bad place – simple but sad.
@Dave Lennon: Level 3 would work if people just cared more and did their part to reduce their social contacts. But theyre not doing that, its clear from even the people i know, they are out every weekend and weekdays as well, going on trips down the country, out for dinner, complaining about the crowds out when they are part of the crowds, therefore part of the problem. Its easier to blame the government instead of taking personal responsibility.
Country and economy cannot afford a level 5. There are businesses who have spent thousands to get up and running and now face been shut again. It’s terrible. The fear people have is a level 5 wont be “Short and sharp” and will prolong.
@Macca1986: a post from another person. There is plenty of other issues besides covid.
The suicide rate is already higher around Christmas time. Imagine how bad it would be in lockdown. We need to open our country again and get appointments for cancer patients and other illnesses back up and running. Otherwise the deaths will be massive. And not from Covid. It’s crazy letting people die from every other illness to hide from one with a 99.8% survival rate. Open the country. Let’s stop living in fear.
@Macca1986: exactly spot on here, people are so blinded by casedemic hysteria they don’t see this, society as we know it will slowly disintegrate if we keep having lock downs, even the WHO are against national lock downs yet NPHET are out on their own here.
@Macca1986: cancer and suicide are not infectious diseases that grow exponentially like Covid. Some people will be lost to both but it would be much worse if Covid overwhelms our hospitals by weight of numbers. Why do some people not get this? It’s basic logic
@John Lyons: so what do u say to the businesses who have spent thousands getting their premises ready, are abiding by the guidlines and now possibly closed again? The economy cannot face another level 5 lockdown.
@Macca1986: our borders are also still left open for anyone to freely travel in and out of the country.
The best point he has made so far… Every time you lockdown you have to reopen at some stage and at that point cases will rise.. We cant be locked down for months open for a few weeks and locked down again.
@Sean McNicholas: if they let numbers continue to increase with no lockdown hospitals will be over run in the winter and we have hundreds of people dying due to not being able to access hospital services (with or without covid). There needs to be a lockdown to get the numbers down to protect everyone.
I love the way he changes the wording for level 5.
Instead of saying sorry!! We got it wrong we should have followed Tony’s advise sorry for insulting you and your intelligence. But were right Tony.
true leaders should put up there hand and own there mistakes. We need two weeks of level 5 it’s not the virus that is our worry, we look at the UK and there numbers and think we are fine. But look at the UK’s NHS system it’s 10 fold better than ours! Normally during the winter period we can have our A&E bursting at the seams with a 72hr trolly wait for a bed and that is without Covid! So can you imagine this year if our numbers keep going up!!
@Barbara Fowley: There are no easy answers or decisions here, its a grey mist. Varadkar was right
Govt was told Thursday last week Level 3, no change. Then on Sunday without warning Nphet said countrywide Level 5 lockdown, no time for Govt to think/prepare. His point was 1. inadequate communication and 2. We can’t rush into a Level 5 lockdown – people and companies need adequate notice etc.
And I suppose leo will move back into farmleigh during any lockdown again…
If everyone could just take a look at the comments, it is clear to see the country is divided on this and the politicians are to blame. We are not in this together anymore and it started with the cut to the PUP. Then the road blocks that only affected people going to work. The minister of health gets on live TV and lied to everyone in the country about Leo’s interview. Time for them all to go. Time for change. Time for an election.
@Brendan Woods: an election now? In the middle of this?
You sir have a future in comedy
@Hector Son: why not, it’s clear to all that the majority of the Irish public have zero faith in FFG who have presided over disaster after disaster since they took office 4 months ago, we need a brand new approach to all of this, all of these draconian measures being proposed only serves to cause bitterness, resentment, anger and division and its getting worse all the time
@Brendan Woods: only for this pandemic FFG would have already been gone, they are without any doubt the single worst government I’ve ever had to live through in my life, unfortunately I can’t see an election on the horizon right now, but when there is FFG will get destroyed in the polls
@SB: who would you like to see take over and what is this “brand new approach” that you speak of?
Most reasonable countries have similar approaches to ours.
New Zealand and Melbourne are two good examples where a lockdown worked.
@SB: FF might get destroyed, FG topping polls atm.
@SB: i dont have faith in these three unelected Amigos. However, an election now would be a disaster.
@Hector Son: Sinn Fein should be given a chance they made the mistake of not running enough candidates last time otherwise they’d have won outright, much and all as I admire New Zealand but they are a country who don’t share any land border and the nearest country to them Australia is 3 hours away, plus their borders are all but closed so you can’t really compare Ireland to NZ
Melbourne isn’t entirely covid free and won’t be either, no country will be until a vaccine is ready, so we need to learn to live alongside the virus until such time a vaccine is ready, harsh lock downs which cripple the economy, sharp rise in unemployment as more businesses close for good, people’s mental health will suffer very badly, and for what to get back to where we were in July, only for cases to rise again.
@Hector Son: let’s be real here Sinn Fein will win easily come the next election.
@Verona Larkin: maybe not right now but before the end of the year
@SB: The majority of the population support extra measures as per any poll I’ve seen in the media and from the ESRI
It is NPHET role to advise and recommend on issues related to health, which they DID. They have also been warning us all about a second wave since April/May.
It is government role to plan and deliver for economic/social responses, 6 months to have contiguous plans in place for second wave. Government DIDNT think it through or prepare for it.
They didn’t do their job and Lieo blamed NPHET!!!!
He writes this in the independent this week and absolutely slates Holohan last week. What a PR hoor. Mehole Martine really is letting him rule the roost.
Why has there been no mention in the Irish and western media of the Chinese vaccine that is been rolled out all across China and other Asian countries, and the Middle East?
Those countries are getting their populations vaccinated and life is returning to normal.
Have the big western pharma companies paid hush money to stop the public hearing about these developments?
@dublinguide.ie: do you have any sources for this? I would like to know more if it is real.
All countries in Europe with 2nd wave rising numbers should be doing this NOW together. Such faffing & teetering around is ridiculous.
NOW is the time, LEAD, BE VOCAL
@Emer Caffrey: Many people will lose their jobs, businesses, even homes. That is the reality of lockdown for many.
@Damian Moylan: then they need to bring back rent freezes, mortgage breaks and increased PUP for that period
@Damian Moylan: what would do if you were in charge? No lockdown? Let the numbers keep going up so that you can have scampi and pints?
@Dublin days: Suggestions by Aidan above will be needed if lockdown pup, mortgage protection etc. Risi Sunak Chancellor Uk announced 2/3 (67%) of salary will be paid up max. £2100/mth. The mayors in Northern Cities have written to all MP’s saying should be 80% like under 1st lockdown. Either way the payment is higher than in Ireland. Introduce a penalty system 30euro on the spot fine for non compliance such as mask wearing, groups not distancing. Heavier fines for raves. Work place inspections required.
@Emer Caffrey: Other countries also worked with regional lockdowns or restrictions for small areas.
The town next to my parents place is pretty much locked down while they could have attended an Irish music night in their place.
I wouldn’t mind to listen to Irish music in Ireland again
@Damian Moylan: in exchange for more lives saved.
Anyone think he has gone full “Elton John”
You have wasted at least 21bilion money like that would be best served on health
So every time the numbers get to a certain number the country has to go into lockdown and once numbers are low enough reopen country again and so on. Close open,close,open……
Scarla for Leo!!!
So last week level 5 was too much for the economy, now he wants level 5,??
With Brexit looming and still recovering from the last recession we’re in for some harsh budgets ahead. Cant keep borrowing our way out. When you’re in a hole you don’t keep digging your way deeper out?
5 days ago he was saying the exact opposite.
Luckily for him FG voter cant remeber last week…
Has Varadkar been on the same page with the cabinet once since they came in to power? If I didn’t know any better I’d say he’s trying to damage their reputation. Contradictory statements from him to almost everyone else in government.
Over 1,000 cases in a day?
Go to Level 5. Anything else is just prolonging the inevitable.
@TonyB: level 5 is prolonging the inevitable, the economy and people’s mental health will suffer very very badly and we’ll get down to a trickle of cases per day and what’s gonna happen.. Cases will just rise again like before.
Absolutely no to lock downs, they do not and can not eridicate the virus.
@SB: they dont eradicate the virus but they do slow it down drastically. In july we were having single digits of cases now we are in 4 digits. Our hospital system will not be able to deal with this increase over the winter months. There needs to be a lockdown to get the numbers low for winter. The economy doesnt matter more than peoples lives. Not only those with covid but those who get ill from the flu over the winter months and those who get into crashes and need an ICU bed when there are none left.
@Nicole Leeson McCarthy: are you actually serious here, the economy doesn’t matter, so what happens if we get to a stage where the economy is in such a state that you’ve 50/60% unemployment, and we as a country can’t borrow anymore money as we’ve already borrowed too much , this alone will have far far worse consequences than Covid-19 will ever have,mental health issues would be huge, suicide rate would rise sharply, homelessness would rise sharply, long queues at food banks would be a regular occurrence, basically Ireland would be in effect like a third world country, you might think this sounds outrageously far fetched, but believe me if you keep on with lock downs over a period of time this is exactly what will happen.
What is the delay so? Waiting another week for cases to rise!!??
Resignation issue in my opinion. They purposely ignored NPHET and slated them on media
No need for level 5 if people followed level 3 restrictions. Several pubs near me packed at the weekend.
Leo is guilty of giving the people too much credit.
@Hector Son: ill agree with you on this anyway, unfortunately it’s lost on much of the younger generation.
This is just putting another spin on going back to full lock down. Once they bring us back to full lock down they will have the population where they want them. And will introduce another coming out of lockdown with updates every 3 weeks. Sorry I am all for getting a grip on this virus but I am not in favour of a full lock down. I am in favour of cop the F—k on people and do what needs doing to control this virus. We have to learn to live with it until we get a vaccine even then it will be 2 years before everyone believes in it or takes it
should have done it a week ago
Should of listened to Tony ya dixk
He should apologies to Tony Hollanhan when they make rules to live by nobody inforces them
The article from Leo defo to “ease us into the possibility of level 5″
We be at level 5 in a few days. Grab yer bits
The WHO have strongly advised against lockdowns as these are creating extreme poverty and mental health issues. I wonder will NPHET now follow WHO guidelines as well.
@Isabel Oliveira: not true of course. They advised against lockdown being the primary and only means of addressing the problem. They did not advise against lockdowns in general, they are one of a number of measures in the toolkit to be used against the virus. Nabarro also stated that the govt were correct in not moving to L5 last week as they have to balance health and wealth. NPHET’s role of course is to advise on measures that concern health only.
“We in the World Health Organisation do not advocate lockdowns as the PRIMARY means of control of this virus.”
@GrumpyAulFella: exactly. Primary is important here, but of course people are twisting this.
Contact tracing is failing miserably because it’s inefficient. It’s not easy but it’s not rocket science. We shouldn’t need to cripple our economy to get in top of it. We have people working in contact tracing who don’t want to be there. And plenty willing but not deployed. Why not address the failings and fix these first?
Would not believe the lords prayer out of a politicians mouth.
Why is this in the media again? The media pandering to Varadkars ego FFS
Leo says one thing & other ministers say schools won’t close
lockdown is silly, swinging gate logic is dumb and the longer term effects of mass unemployment, business liquidations, rent crisis, corporate property crash are yet to be felt.
Lockdowns are going to create another generation of poor families who raise troubled kids, leading to a shift in society. We cannot constantly turn the lockdown on and off when cases increase. Testing increases case numbers, less people are dying, the case fatality rate is very low these days.
We need to be rational as a nation and accept the loss of a few people to save the lives of many. This is how nature rolls we need to accept it. The bubble wrap generation need to suck it up. No one wants people to suffer or perhaps die but the naive lockdown model will eventually cause much greater suffering. Dystopian rules wont fix anything long term.
The only positive side of lockdown is the reduced levels of carbon dioxide for a brief period.
We had plenty of time to get our health service in check, increase ICU capacity, encourage people to get healthy. But instead we introduced 1 way systems amongst other bizarre rules. Also those people wearing visors…, are you crazy, honestly do you think you are protected from air particles? There is so much sheepish hypocrisy now that being a contrarian means you are the scourge of society.
there is a global rung pull going on at present, Ireland has been suckered into it and playing along like a good child. expect economic meltdown in the next few years followed by hyperinflation and a currency collapse.
i do not see the governments informing people how to stay healthy, where is the list of vitamins, supplements and other wellbeing activities one can undertake to prepare your body to be more resilient to the severe effects this strain of corona virus. Washing your hands, walking one way systems, and staying at home on your arse for weeks on end will not keep you safe long term.
Sometimes forget who is charge these days
So the plan is a full lockdown for the mid term break. The only thing no other country has done is shut down the groceries shops. So I hope this time, they realise the anti-poverty allowance before the shops are left with nothing on the shelf or the groceries shops have a plan to allow unless the people who were in poverty before the pandemic, who are not entitled to any PUPs and have been unable to get any seasonal temporary work …. or in short …. people getting €150 less per week …. I hope groceries shops have a plan in place for them, like have available stock of the cheapest basic products like eggs
No more lockdown pls, mental health is not good in country
Woooow and he says it without shame. How can the voters take these pr goons seriously.
He might want to knock the oul botox on the head while hes at it
They should lock him down.
Leo Varadkar’s attempt at humiliating Dr.Holohan and discrediting Nphet was nothing short of disgraceful. I still can’t figure out why he stooped so low.
@Leonard O’mahony: Tony was stealing his thunder.
Just feckin great. Now the leader and deputy leader of government are not on the same page in the war against Covid 19. You couldn’t make this stuff up.
5 -10 -20
The day Varadkar let his ego get in the way of expert advice from the Medical team .
He should hang his head in shame and not be repeating his prediictable comments .
The part time Taoiseacht Michael Martin and the Future part time Taoiseacht Varadkar are certainly not singing from the same page.
Lockdowns are a short term solution to a long term problem. If there is a lockdown, procedures should be in place to continue with the benefits of lockdown – like reduction in cases. No point in reverting to old habits. Do the same and get the same results. The country cannot be going into lockdown everytime there is a spike in numbers. Give the necessary powers to the necessary people to enforce the restrictions.
Has anyone noticed since Holohan came back covid cases have hit the roof
@Margaret Kane: would they not have if he hadn’t come back. I’m sure most of these people were already hosts of the virus before Tony was back in the seat.
This tit for tat with the two of them is getting embarrassing now.
@Alice Collins: Parties before the country. Nothing will ever change.
Another lockdown, that’s all we need? I work with people who are out sick with c19 and i have not been told about them, it’s a big cover up! To much money involved, and if the word got out it would make the news!!!!!
@Heisen berg1: its not a coverup. Unless you are a close contact you wont be told about someone having covid 19 because that is their private medical information.
What happened level 4?
What’s happened to level 4
There needs to be a “grown up” discussion about how we manage education during this pandemic. Simply ducking any discussion with “the schools must remain open” mantra isn’t good enough. The virus is transmitting in schools and in groups of pupils gathering at lunchtime and after school. We need a plan that sees the children of key workers and those who are vulnerable in school and other pupils moving to a blended learning plan that has them physically in school some of the time and studying at home some of the time. If we reduce the number of pupils in school at any one time then effective distancing can be implemented.
Regardless, cases will rise and drop. It’s unavoidable at this rate. They need to impose fines to those not adhering to restrictions.
Dublin has been in level 3 for a few weeks and there has been a decrease in cases there. It’s working – level 3 can work if effort is put in.
That would be a level 5 light
Close schools first before going to level 5!
How long will ye ignore Sweden
@James: for as long as they have three times more deaths than us.
@GumpyAulFella: i think we are been lied too
When it was lockdown there were fewer cases. So a second one might be the smartest thing.
Ffs
5 4 3 2 1 was always going to be better than 3 4 5 4 3 2 1
In Cork alone 2 weeks ago it was 7 cases , following day 14 cases followed by 21 cases , then 34 cases then into 50 + cases now in the space of 2 weeks yesterday was 112 new cases.. I really cannot see this rate of increase stablizing at level 3 when the incubation status of the virus can be 4 to 10 days before diagnosis.
Do it now
First Varadkar has to answer this question: how will we avoid being in the situation we are now, several weeks after the 2nd lockdown?
More generally though, at what point do they AT LEAST consider the possibility that such a contagious virus might not be containable above a certain level of human activity & interaction?
I’m not talking about sporadic socializing, I’m talking about full time schools and universities – even when many activities can be carried out remotely. I’m talking about more and more workplaces reopening even in those circumstances where part (or all) of the work can be carried out from home.
Barely 6 weeks ago Australia’s numbers were similar to those of Austria. Now the latter’s are twice those of the former. We clearly have to assess what Australia did right and what Austria did wrong.
FFS!!The Odd Couple……without the talent!!!
Here is the pre warning. So buckle up bit##es
I’m starting to think this FF/FG coalition is a bad idea after all
Michael mehole total muppet
Wasn’t this article initially about Leo? Why are article headlines chopped and changed by The Journal over the course of a day or even hours?
I passed a comment on this and it was deemed toxic.
No bad language, just expressing an opinion. Regarding Martin and Veradka behaviour at a time when the country is struggling to stay afloat.
Garda checkpoints prevent covid-19
What we need now is something to stop old people being terrorised in their homes
And something to stop drug pushers destroying young lives
Cork telling Dublin what to do lol
This Irish Govt employed the best medical team in Europe and then ignored their advice for political gain ~ and Irish citizens may die because of their egotism !
Lock down
AstraZeneca hoping to make their vaccine available before year’s end, with up to 400 million doses initially. That’s the one we’ve committed to as part of the EU MOU. We need to hold tight, protect the vulnerable for a little longer. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
No way
No
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