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NIGEL FARAGE’S DECLARATION that the ‘war was over’ within hours of the UK/EU trade deal being reached was one that was seconded by many of the significant figures at Westminster.
Labour Party leader Keir Starmer, previously the Party’s chief cheerleader for a ‘People’s Vote’ repeating Farage’s choice of phrase and insisted that the question of EU membership would no longer be an issue for the Party.
The consensus within the Commons seemed to be for a new post-Brexit UK to emerge and find a new place in world politics.
Yet, whatever the wishful thinking of Brexiters might be, their actions have arguably left the UK in terminal decline as an entity. Divisions in society have been opened up as a result of Brexit and these have continued with the so-called generational ‘culture wars’ that have intensified with the emergence of Black Lives Matter and with the Statue protests in 2020.
However, it is the parts of the Union which Brexit has harmed which are of more significance.
The problem with Scotland
The Scottish elections in May are expected to result in a clear majority for the SNP who will try again to call another referendum on Scottish independence. Polls have suggested there is now a clear mandate for independence in light of Brexit.
Scotland voted to remain in the EU by a 62-38 split and support for independence is beginning to reflect a similar favourable split. It appears that the political sea change in Scotland has been such that it is increasingly difficult to make a case for any change back towards supporting the Union.
Whilst younger voters tended to be more lukewarm towards independence back in 2014, Brexit has significantly reversed this trend. At the very least, therefore, Scotland will be kept in the Union against their wishes if Johnson refuses another referendum, which appears likely.
Along with Scotland, the situation in the six counties appears to please no-one. Unionists have expressed anger at being sold out by Johnson over the Irish Sea customs border, whilst Sinn Féin and the SDPL have dismissed Brexit as a whole and have argued for the speeding up of the process of a United Ireland as a result.
Yet, it has not just been in Scotland and Northern Ireland where the Union appears fragile.
The largest growing political organisation in Britain last year was Yes Cymru, which campaigns for an Independent Wales. Aiding by the greater autonomy the Welsh government has had during the Covid pandemic, Yes Cymru has focussed on dispelling the long-standing Welsh myth that Wales cannot survive without England.
Recent polls have seen support for Welsh independence reach record numbers and are comparable to levels Scotland had pre-referendum.
In addition, in light of the Labour Party’s capitulation to the SNP in Scotland, the Welsh Labour Party are keen not to dismiss independence in the same way with Mark Drakeford underlining that Wales place in the Union should not be seen as a given.
How fragile is the Union?
All political unions depend on legitimacy to function for survival. The Brexit fallout has led to deep divisions that pit full brexiteers against united Irelanders in Northern Ireland, full separatists against those who want to abolish the Senedd and return to direct Westminster rule in Wales.
We then have the majority of Scotland against the popular tabloid press in Fleet Street, who are now arguably levying the same arguments they accused remainers of using against Sturgeon and the SNP.
Within England itself, an increasing amount of those that Farage and Johnson relied upon for Brexit appear to favour English independence from the EU as opposed to any commitment to the UK, whilst in London support for a separatist city-state, based on a Singapore has even gained modest support post-Brexit.
As was seen with bodies such as Yugoslavia or the Soviet Union two decades ago, once the Union that binds them becomes strained the whole entity can quickly disintegrate.
As we know from Ireland, the United Kingdom throughout its history has been fraught with injustices and instabilities but post-Brexit these are developing across its entire breadth.
If the United Kingdom does indeed disintegrate in the coming decade or two, the great irony will be that it was those who were so keen to flag the Union Jack as a symbolical weapon against the EU that would have effectively killed it off.
In any case, the structural tensions within the UK that Brexit has brought about will make any form of harmony impossible. A jingoistic 19th-century style divide and rule strategy of the sort that Johnson and Farage appear to support will just serve to widen these divisions.
Post-Brexit, the war for the territory currently known as the ‘UK’ might just be beginning.
Dr Owen Worth is Head of the Department of Politics and Public Administration at the University of Limerick.
Not sure about back home but here in sweden it is almost exclusively roma and has got to the point where political parties are considering a ban…none of em are of the addict variety.just one of many examples…the same woman has been sitting on her rear end outside my local off licence for the last 2.5 years..6 days a week. Big business.
The BBC did a documentary on them a few years back and the lifestyle the Mr Big’s have is simply astonishing. All the money is sent back to him via western union. I’m sure u can still see it.
The real Mr Bigs wear nice suits and have caused infinitely more damage to society than anyone from the Roma community.
Here in Denmark begging is illegal, the beggers get removed from the streets. Deportation happens, but they are back here on the next bus. Because it’s illega,l the Danes generally don’t give the beggers a second glance. Seems to have helped.
Its illegal under the Vagrancy Act in the UK. Why not in Ireland?
@Raymond Power:
It should be illegal, the dole here of 188 euros a week means there is no necessity to beg in this country.
If you don’t qualify for the dole then you are not a citizen…which makes the case even more strongly to make begging illegal.
@Fred Jensen: How about banker’s begging for a bailout? Should that be illegal too?
Hi Gus. I was shopping in Manchester yesterday….there was a fair share of them begging around Victoria train Station … I didn’t see anyone moving them on.. All young men…looking dishevelled. Felt a bit sorry fir them really.
@Fake Avast: Excellent observation.
@everyone on this thread. Look, I do feel very sorry for people who end up on the streets thru bad luck, unforeseen circumstances or whatnot and are forced to no other choice but to beg for help. It’s the organized begging I have a huge issue with. There are places around Dublin where u see certain Roma beggers dropped off in the morning (Parnell st at @ penneys) and picked up in the evening. I’ve even seen real down & out’s bullied & beating off their patch by them. U see a mob with “minders” doing the rounds about the George’s st area when pubs close at night. But nothing is been done about it.
@Raymond Power: The more aggressive (i.e. ones that will walk over to you) beggars seem to be mostly locals, in my experience. Usually they’re affecting some kind of upper-class accent. There seem to be fewer Roma on the streets these days, but the ones that are are usually begging on the ground.
Begging was illegal, until a judge ruled that asking someone for money was free speech and it’s unconstitutional to prosecute someone for exercising their right to free speech.
If people stopped giving them money would that snuff it out?? Just a thought
How about we clamp down on dirty dealings in NAMA, corrupt cops, vulture funds, political parasites, malevolent religious institutions, corrupt banks, tax dodging corporate parasites, etc etc etc?
Just a thought.
Surely that would be counter productive and lead to an increase in pick pocketing etc.? They’re going to get the money from somewhere and if people don’t give it, they’ll just take it.
Totally agree. People who give these people money are worse than the people begging. Give the money directly to a good voluntary based charity without massive wages.
If you’re feeling that generous/gullible then you go ahead. Give them some for me while you’re at it.
@Joe Bloggs:
You’ll find Joe that we’re all paying for the real parasites on society but the money isn’t collected in a paper cup.
When you here the comment ‘the committee is to address this issue’ its more like its never going to happen and the focus has then been successfully taken away from the big news which is NAMA, Whistle-blowers, The Catholic Church cocking a snoop and of course the 64 billion lost in paying out Noonan’s mates.
You know its ok to separate the two issues. We CAN speak about organised foreign crime gangs begging and harassing old women outside churches, knocking on peoples cars without going into a different topic about NAMA, the financial system, white collar crime etc. Its counter productive.
People giving their money to worthwhile charities, collectors or genuine homeless cases is one thing and does have roots in the wider system. But gangs of criminals, begging every day, across every city and town in the country is just plain wrong and we need to stop being pc about it. Get them out of here.
It’s simply impossible to say there are only 80. Perhaps your definition of a beggar is different to mine but from the 2 or 3 always at the train statiion, to every single bank ATM, it seems to me I must spot all of them every single time I leave the apt.
It’s illegal to beg with 5m of an ATM the Garda never enforce this from what I can tell. Enforcement needs to happen.
The law states that gardaí may direct those found begging at ATMs to leave the area; if they refuse or come back after leaving then they can be arrested. This can & does happen, but the reality is that the offence is a minor public order one & not something which could warrant you being held in custody in & of itself. Since the courts have found that a lack of a permanent address is not sufficient reason to deny bail, anyone arrested for it can expect to be back out on the streets in a couple of hours.
Of course for a law to be enforced you need law enforcement and according to the OECD Ireland has the lowest per person police force in the industrialised world.
Understaffed and under-resourced and FG has the gall to call itself the party of law and order.
Police numbers need to be boosted by 50% and then further investment in stuff such as cars. This month there was a report in the Independent about how SEVEN Irish patrol cars lost a speeding car in the Dublin mountains.
“A suspected burglary gang has outrun pursing Gardai in a car chase that has been happening since 9pm this evening.
“The hot pursuit, which involved up to seven Garda cars, lost track of the Black S3 Audi in the Dublin mountains after a two hour chase.
“According to a source, the car involved has a 2.7 litre twin turbo engine and managed to travel significantly faster than the Garda cars pursuing it.
“The Eastern Division were chasing the vehicle all over the Dublin mountains, but failed to capture them, losing them in the Dublin mountains.
“The Guards are driving 1.7 litre Hyundais and don’t have a hope against a car like that.”
Embarrassing, disgraceful and a sad indictment against the political class that are supposed to be governing this country.
Couldn’t agree more
It wouldn’t surprise me about an overly light hand by Garda to Roma and the like because they are, and I have heard it from a serving Garda, literally afraid of them ‘screaming racism’. People who travel to our cities simply to beg even if it be under the guise of selling magazines should be deported asap.
Roma a major problem in this city but one can’t say a word as the P C brigade out in force.
I wonder would they like it if they were aggressively approached outside their homes !!!!
Ah yeah. The Gardaí are supposedly afraid of the Roma but not afraid to paint one of their own as a pedophile for daring to blow the whistle on incompetence and corruption in the police.
Roma gangs are responsible for most of the begging. Stop pussyfooting around and go after them.
I counted 8 roma gypsies on Nassau Street one day last year. Then 2 on grafton street and one on clarendon street. They come into town in droves first thing in the morning from north circular road and the likes. I know there is a family living in mulhuddart who have a 2007 Audi Q7 and 2009 Merc E class in the drive way but still “have to” beg in town for food. It should be like Canada here. You come here, you contribute. If your not willing to work. Go find someone else to scam.
@JohnMurrayHeadshots: Seen them coming in the mornings at the same time like clockwork getting off a no4 or no7 bus from Nassau Street like a ‘job’ and sometimes they’ve ‘expensive’ coffee cup on their hand.
Speaking to an recovering heroin addict the other day. He was saying how the gardai never move on the roma beggars only the junkies.
It’s not against the law to beg. It’s against the law to inject heroin.
Under Section 2 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 2011 a person who begs in an aggressive, intimidating or aggressive manner is guilty of an offence. A person found guilty of such an offence is liable on summary conviction to a class E fine and/or up to one month in prison. The Act provides that where someone is begging near certain places such as an ATM, a night safe, a vending machine or a shop entrance the Gardaí have the powers to direct them to leave the area. Failure to do as directed by a Garda is an offence with a class E fine on summary conviction. The Act also makes it an offence to organise or direct begging by another person. On summary conviction you are liable to a class A fine and/or up to 12 months in prison.
According to section 1 to 2 of the criminal justice act, the guards are not obligated to move these individuals along if they are otherwise engaged scoffing jam doughnuts at the local raz mataz topaz station. The next thing is you will be expecting them to walk the beat and leave their nee naw mobile transport at the station.
You can be sure there has been extra ones flown in over the last few weeks. They are notorious pick pockets and alot of them carry Italian passports to gain entry into pubs. They are in and out in a flash.
It’s a business for them – and can be clearly seen. Walk to the Aviva stadium any day this week and not see a single beggar. After the game on Saturday you will have to step over or around 4 or 5 of them…. some will even be pretending to be sleeping on the footpath in the middle of ballsbridge at 7 in the evening.
It was the same at the All Black game, and again at the French game. They will surely be out for the England game also.
Roma beggars actually carry on their family business for generations. They rely on gullible Irish people to keep giving them money. Give your money to homeless charities instead. By continuing to feed this problem you are actually part of the problem. Wake up !
Give my money to charity? So some dope who married the right person and got a CEO title can use my money to stuff her 5th ciabatta of the day down her fat face?
One night in Limerick a beggar had a dog with him , and awful as it is to say I felt more sorry for the man with a dog rather than one without
Needless the so the “beggar” was foreign ( looked Roma)
Over the course of the week i noticed the same dog with other “beggars” , whilst waiting outside a shop I noticed a similar reaction to mine with other people ( giving money that is) . In the course of 5-10 minutes i would say 7 out of every 10 people gave money
Changed my mind on the matter immediately
This begging is a business and profitable to these people , they don`t see any shame in doing it and in all honesty it should be stopped
If the intention of the Roma community is simply to come to a country and do nothing but beg , I`m sorry but they should be deported.
The images of numerous beggars across a city does not look well and it leaves a lasting impression on visitors who don`t understand
If the authorities put as much effort into dealing with antisocial behaviour in town as they into the disruption of driving and parking restrictions we’d be laughing. Dublin just does not always feel like a carefree pleasant city to walk around or sit outside in.
Stop giving them money and they’ll go away. “but then they’ll pick pocket”. They already do that anyway.
There always well dressed, nice runners, with a little backpack with all their supplied for the day in it, Flask, lunch rain gear, I sat watching a few lads one day and they rotate locations like clockwork. They all head home after “work ” everyday to a house where dinner is prepared for them by the house mother. All organised.
Just a suggestion. Why not appoint interested people to ‘shadow’ a selected number of individuals begging on various places? The person being shadowed would of course have to be informed that it was happening.
For safety and accuracy two people would accompany at a discreet distance, the beggar, and record all that happens during the day until the going to bed time. This would give an accurate picture of those involved and whether they are genuine or just organised groups.
@John Campbell:is it just me or does your post not make sense?
But they know they are being shadowed so this makes no sense
@Eileen Boles, yes Eileen at first glance it might be difficult to understand and perhaps I should have explained it better. For what it’s worth the genuine beggar would likely have no objection to being shadowed but the chancers would object strenuously for fear of being exposed.
Roma gangs have Roma beggars out 24/7
Roma beggars none of them are genuine it looks awful when tourists are around .
With one or two notable exceptions, I have found non-Roma, often Irish beggars to be more aggressive!
@Rathminder: most Irish beggars I`ve encountered are stoned out if it on methadone or drugs , they simply sit with a bin or wall propping them up asleep and in their own world
They shouldn`t be allowed , simple as that
If I go to a country outside the EU, dont work and just beg, you can be damn sure I will be getting deported. Its the stupid doo gooders giving to them that cause the problem, I have seen them “change shifts” outside the Passport office in Dublin. Some seriously deluded people filling their pockets with change.
There’s a lad who sits on Exchequer Street begging in Dublin several days a week. He came in to my place of work one day & asked would I cash up some change for him. I was curious to see how much he made so I said yes. I took 50 euros in change off him but he had another 30 or 40 euro on him in change I didn’t take. Sometimes you see him on a smartphone whilst begging. He’s definitely not hard up compared to some genuine hardcases.
Ah yeah blame all the foreigners Dublin’s like something off the walking dead with all the junkies begging and hassleing people fact
Deport the lot of them,
Total scammers. Guy on the Hapeny bridge the other day in an exoensive leather jacket. Another guy in flash new runners and matching transit squatting outside a londis. Why work when someone can hand it to you…
Marcus, would you prefer if he left the guy rob the woman? What sort of convoluted thinking decides that a man who stopped a mugging deserves the criticism?!
Every Sunday in Howth this guy arrived with a backpack and takes out a blue sleeping bag about 9am and lies in wait for the tourists! There is a festival this weekend and guaranteed he’ll be there, cashing in. There has been a huge increase in this activity since the increased awareness of homelessness in Ireland.
its usually one big family operating for begging if you give to one, a second person will arrive then a third. some of them on drugs and need a quick fix its a very sad situation to be in.
God help them All Ameen
Just reenact Dublin’s vagrancy laws and provide compulsory shelters with vetting facilities so that street beggars, junkies, shysters and the mentally ill can be classified
and helped and, if necessary, imprisoned.
For some the remedy may be to pay hostels directly for food & shelter rather than handing the individual the Euros.
Benjy – numerous identities I see, what ax do you have to grind about An Garda Siochana?
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