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YOU WOULD BE hard pressed to avoid the topic of a United Ireland throughout the past few weeks.
From columns to polls to UK command papers – the debate on whether Ireland is on track for a vote on its constitutional future is in full swing.
However, missing to some degree is nuance; A Border Poll will not run as cleanly down ideological lines as some would believe, this is not a case of Catholics voting for a United Ireland, and Protestants voting to remain in the UK – perspectives on identity are changing in Northern Ireland, and what increasingly matters most to voters is opportunity.
Although the staunch ‘yes’ and ‘no’ sides are somewhat highlighted by now, there are a surprising number of people from backgrounds you might not expect to be for or against a poll. I spoke to a number of people from various communities recently and asked for their views on a United Ireland.
Fionna Smyth hails from Bangor, where the 53-year-old grew up in a unionist environment. “We used to go and see the bonfires every twelfth, and I remember that the Lambeg drums were just about the most thrilling, exciting thing that I had ever heard … at that point, I would have called myself British.”
Today however, Smyth considers herself “Irish, Northern Irish”, having gone to university in England where Smyth found a very different reaction to her Britishness.
“You could not meet a more diametrically opposed view of Britishness than the one I had grown up with”, Smyth shared, “They didn’t speak like me, they didn’t have the same world view as me … it was a world apart”.
She gravitated toward an Irish identity through the world of literature, discovering poetry as a door into a history and culture she felt was “taken” from her protestant community.
She now aligns her identities with the “progressive values” of Ireland and has “no fear of a United Ireland”.
The pull of progressive values is being felt by more than just Smyth; Retired Navy Officer Tim McCullough works with refugees and found that while trying to rescue his Afghan interpreter’s family following the Taliban’s takeover in 2021, it was the Irish government that ultimately intervened while the UK government “just kept putting barriers in the way … England is heading down this very far right avenue at the moment, which I can never proscribe to.”
McCullough was successful in bringing the family to Ireland and says he “will probably vote for a United Ireland,” he is from “a very protestant background, my dad was in the Orange Order”. McCullough spent his life in the British armed forces, and today considers himself “Northern Irish, European”.
On the merits of a United Ireland he says, “I’d like to be part of Europe – you’ve already got 40 per cent of me sold, based on the point that I want to be European,” adding that he’ll do “what’s best for my children, what’s best for my family”.
Polling on a United Ireland suggests that there is not, at present, majority support in Northern Ireland, but support is growing, the Northern Ireland Life and Times survey documents a twice-fold increase in support for a United Ireland since 2015.
An important factor here is the context in which people are answering polls. There is no plan, no detail, and no vision as to what a United Ireland will look like. When asked to consider whether or not they’d vote in favour of a United Ireland should an election be held today, people are being forced to decide based on extremely limited information.
The failure on behalf of pro-unity parties to establish a plan, as well as the Irish government’s passivity with regard to working toward a vote, are seen by some as a disservice to citizens and the future of this island. The appetite is there; the desire to have this conversation and weigh up our options is undeniable.
48-year-old IT specialist Mark McKechnie says he is “a little frustrated with the Irish government, that they are not putting in place more specific plans to avoid the Brexit mistakes of a very open-ended question.” McKechnie would have identified as “very British, Loyalist even” into his twenties.
Having lived in both England and Dublin he now describes himself as “Irish” and would vote for a United Ireland, “I would never have in the past, I’ve family members who would be very staunchly Loyalist, but I would vote for a United Ireland because I’m looking at it purely from an economic cultural standpoint.” Adding that, “I think for us to reach our potential, in the northern part of Ireland, the only way forward is unification, and we fully integrate and embrace that and go together as one nation: dissenter, protestant, republican, everybody that’s in the North, I’m for unification.”
In conducting these interviews, it became clear to me that there is an enormous opportunity right in front of us if only we had the political leadership and courage to grasp it. Constitutional change presents all of us with a chance to reconsider the kind of society that we want to live in.
Ireland, North and South, is plagued by systemic failings; Whether in governance or healthcare in Northern Ireland, or housing and climate in the Republic of Ireland, constitutional change will fundamentally disrupt the status quo and will require significant changes with respect to how Ireland as a country operates.
Such an opportunity will naturally appeal to a broader cohort than simply traditional nationalists. Identity is not rigid, religion does not define politics, and no community is homogenous. What this debate is about is economics, opportunity, and a return to the European Union.
Emma DeSouza is a writer and campaigner.
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Long before there was any such thing as a protestant or a Catholic, this island was Irish. Before there was any such thing as Nationalist or a unionist, this island was Irish. Before there was such thing as a loyalist or a Republican, fenian or orange man, this island was Irish. And long before the place known today as Northern Ireland came into existence, and long long after it has passed from the scene, this island will be irish again.
@brian o’leary: the place is Irish . The uk is a union of Irish English Scottish and Welsh . Thats why it’s call a union . The only reason Ireland survived as an Irish nation is because it was part of the UK . Considering how pro Eu and Europe Ireland is you have to wonder will there still be an Irish nation in 20 yrs time . If Ireland wants to remain as an Irish nation in the future then it needs to get out of the EU and rejoin the Uk .
@brian o’leary:
You could use the same logic and say “long before……….. whatever…… there were the British Isles”
It’s the people that are important not neat geography
@Jack Moss: yeah get out of europe like it went so well for Britain. Awesome
@michael odwyer: your missing the whole point of why Ireland became independent . It wasn’t about money . It was about taking control of your country . Making your own decisions and shaping your own future . Today it’s we are financially better off in the EU . If you think like that then what was the point in leaving the UK . The UK in 1922 was the world’s global superpower . It had an empire that covered a quarter of the world . If it existed today the four nations of the UK would have been wealthier then the US that has a population of 400 million . A trading block of over seventy countries that covers three billion people . That’s six times larger than the EU. You gave all that up to become your own country .
@Jack Moss: I can’t see us landing on Plymouth rock after the rock was landed on us. Perhaps the reintroducing of a good plantation policy and a healthy splattering of gerrymandering might get it over the line.
Doesn’t the U in EU stand for union? Of countries of course, not regions like the UK?
@brian o’leary: the EU will be a federal state within the next 20 to 30 yrs . The UK is a union of four identities . It always has been and always will be as long as it exists . NI will always be Irish in the UK which is more than you can say for the 26 counties in the future European federal state .
@Tomas Murray: correct, a bog island, for a bog people:)
@Jack Moss: Union Hack, Irish people don’t take lessons from your mob any more. They e are better educated and wealthier than you are. We are not relying on the plunder of the empire for our remaining wealth.
@Jack Moss: Union Hack, a lot of your “NI” Irish say they are not Irish. Stop living a fairy tale, the empire is gone. In 20 years, the uk will be gone. I hope you see it.
@William Slevin: Ireland will never be united . Those that say it will don’t know the people of NI . Even if you manage to get a majority in a border poll it won’t be united . A large percentage of the population that identify as British will never accept it . You may missed 26 yrs of people murdering one another in the top right corner of Ireland because two groups of people want to be part of different countries .
@Jack Moss: yeah 800 years of English oppression has made us more Irish. Do you have a ‘ special’ device in reaching these quantum leaps????
@Jack Moss: Laughable tripe.
@Jack Moss: if you know ur history England looks afterEngland first and foremost
All the other countries in that block are always playing second fiddle in allocation of resources
Take the oilfields off the Scottish coast for example
We’re doing OK for such a s all nation ourselves tha ks very much
The FF/FG don’t want unification at the moment
The SF WILL be the biggest party on the island
@M Bowe: Actually the Norman’s ruled Ireland till 1541 and the Scots (Stuart’s) held the throne between 1603 and 1714 . There was six Scottish kings and one Scottish queen that ruled over Ireland and England . James the first was the first Scot’s king . He was the son of Mary Queen of Scots and responsible for the plantations of Ulster . The Scots also created the Union in 1707 when they merged the English and Scottish parliaments together to form the Union. Don’t you think it’s time to learn some real history instead of the fairytale version that came out of the back room of the local down the falls road .
@Jack Moss: who knows where democracy will take us. For me the eu is like a UK for slow learners , I’ve no problem being irish and European, like Scots can be Scottish and British. If we don’t like the way europe is going for us we can leave, like we left the UK, or like the uk left the eu.
@John Mcmahon: if you know your history it was the Scots that created the union in 1707 . The Scots that held the throne between 1603 and 1714 .
@Jack Moss: you are missing the point joining the EU was through the choice of the irish people it wasn’t forced upon us like being part of Great Britain was
@Jack Moss: Read a book you Tory. Ireland was fine before your lot of terrorists came here & wreaked havoc. We never asked to be part of the UK & we’ll never rejoin voluntarily, we never did in the first place
@michael odwyer: You didn’t join the EU you join the EEc . The majority of people that voted to join the EEC are now dead . You don’t really believe that what the EU is today is what the Irish voted to join . Your are been sucked into something that you didn’t join up for . Your sovereignty is being erased .
@Jack Moss: firstly in not from Belfast so don’t frequent bars on Falls rd very often. Secondly I’m not speaking of our turbulent past, I speak of the native indigenous people of this island and our consistent urge and fight to self determination. So quoting regional, nomadic, or clan rulers bare no relevance in that yearning for a united self determined nation.
@Jack Moss: pull the other one. If you are so desperate to rejoin the Uk go on over there and stay. You won’t be missed I can promise you that much. No self respecting Irish person is rejoining the UK. But I do agree with you, we probably did survive some things from being occupied by them, because we weren’t a “part” of the UK. We were involuntarily occupied by them and treated like second class citizens. But who is to know how we would have been because it’s a waste of time trying to imagine it, at the end of the day that’s our history. Occupied by the British and left to pick up the pieces. The EU saved us. Is it perfect? Absolutely not, but better than the kip that is the United Kingdom. Run along back home now.
@Jack Moss: Sorry, it took Ireland 800 years and Thousands of our people murdered to get out of the U.K. We’re definitely not going back!
@Jack Moss: such a fantastically deluded comment.
Occupying another country is not forming a “union”
It’s occupation.
Please don’t embarrass yourself trying to defend the indefensible.
Pick up a history book sometime. It might help you
@Jack Moss: yes Jack, let’s join the union that committed recorded genocide on this island on several occasions. A union which recently threatened to starve us into submission if we didn’t support them during the Brexit negotiations. The bully in the playground. We’re better off having the Germans and French as friends, even if not perfect.
@M Bowe: you mean small groups of people that believed they had a right to represent the Irish people when they represented nobody . The Irish accounted for 40 percent of the British army .
@William McSweeney: never in the history of the island of Ireland has there ever been an independent 32 county nation called Ireland , Ireland has only ever existed as s 32 county Irish nation in what is the UK today. If you disagree with me then feel free to tell me when this independent 32 county Irish nation existed .
@Jack Moss: Brian boru
@michael odwyer: no Ireland was an island divided up into five provinces that was split into 150 kingdoms before the Norman conquest of 1169 . No 32 counties or one. Ireland has only ever been one nation in what is the UK .
@Jack Moss: Obviously you have not being keeping up the news with the current state of the U.K since they decided to leave the EU. You will find they have gone through a few Prime Ministers and the population are not happy campers. The baby conservatives the Labour party are on course to take power… like when FG/ so called Labour took power they will only endorse the mess the previous FF/ Greens left…The comparison is striking. You will also have missed the recent polls in the Motherland of the former murderous empire that the majority now believed they made a mistake in voting to leave the EU. At least FG would probably be in agreement with rejoining the old murderous empire…Martin would probably do another u turn and agree with them to stay in power.
@Jack Moss: so you say our sovereignty is being erased by the EU but want us to join the UK? Troll harder
@Jack Moss: another irrelevant comment. Irish also made up large numbers in USA army. What most had in common was that they were forced to emigrate from Ireland in search of a living wage as Britain was denying them that at home.
@Jack Moss: as if leaving the eu is going so well for the British, l would rather stick with the other 27 if you don’t mine.
Britain is a busted flush, and they did it to themselves.
@Jack Moss: yes it our nation, not Britain.
Irish to the core, and part of a great European Union.
@John Smith: Who were the thousands murdered to get out of the Union? Only people who took it on themselves to do so. Yesterday there was an article on the Madeleine laundries and it was the church that was held responsible for the suffering that was inflicted on the inmates. It was not the church but our “brave patriots” that put their own ideals before practicalities of the general population. Separation from the Union was their goal with no plan to the future. Result was leave the education and healthcare to the church. Peaceful policies was the way to go.
It will be a yes from me when we vote
@michael odwyer: it will be a yes from me when the border referendum comes around.
@Paul Dunne: Ultimately it gives us the oppertunity to have a bigger economy, granted we inherit existing problems but in future decades the extra 2 million people in the system would be worth it. It’s a no-brainer really (or a yes-brainer?… sorry;). But very much depends on how people are able to remove themselves from their emotive reasoning (which isn’t great right now)
@Thesaltyurchin: very true.
@Gregory C Donoghue: yes there is, it right the wrong of over a hundred years, when the British separated our great nation.
I would vote no
@Midnight Mechanic: When A Unionist travels outside of this island , say to GB, USA, Oz or in fact anywhere in the world they are identified as Irish by foreigners.
@Jos: and many of us are offended by that. Usually comes with tales of the heroic privos. Not nice at all.
I assume in the interests of balance, there will be a vote here in the Republic for those who don’t want the north to be part of our country to voice our opinion ?
@Stephen C: people in the ROI luv the idea of a UI . As soon as they are told that they may have to pay for it the number drops to 40 percent .
@Jack Moss: There’s no ‘may’ about it. We lived through that after The Wall came down and German Reunification.
A solidarity tax was introduced to the pay packet to help finance the gig.
@Jack Moss: that’s the usual narrative partitionist throw out to scaremonger. Unity will happen because it makes sense on so many levels. With proper transitional arrangements the financial elements can be managed responsibly and the medium to long term gains will be realised.
@Shdne: what financial gains . Ireland is already an all Ireland economy . There is no economic border on the island of Ireland . It’s free movement of goods and people across 32 counties . NI had the best of both worlds it has access to the EU and the UK . It still need ten billion a yr. If it leaves the UK then it doesn’t have the best of both worlds . How is it going to better off .
@Jack Moss: You have all your accounts logged in. Stop taking rubbish.
@Jack Moss: and that boils down to the point made in article itself. There is no clear projection as to what a unified country would achieve. But I’m definitely of the mind set that if it was so negative to an economic future people like you would have those projections fed to you on a daily basis.
@Jack Moss: They did a survey here all who were asked would love a united Ireland but when questioned & told some of what it intailed the numbers dropped big time can’t see it happening for several decades yet
@Sheila McNulty: exactly everyone wants it as long they don’t have to pay for it .
@Shdne: we can bill the British for leasing it for the last hundred years.
@DGQ: it’s a very important issue. It will cost €10 billion a year.
Plus we would have to give up our flag and national anthem.
Plus you would have the DUP as one of the biggest parties in the country in the dail.
Plus trouble could start again.
It’s a definite NO thanks from me plus many others who couldn’t care less or aren’t willing to sacrifice anything. We have enough problems down here as it is.
The reunification of Ireland is a constitutional imperative, something Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael seem to forget. The reason for Northern Ireland to exist is unraveling as the Protestant majority that traditionally are unionist in outlook decline year on year. The nonsensical practicality of partition is increasingly exposed. I will vote yes once a coherent plan is produced to manage a transition responsibly.
@Shdne: you don’t have to be a Protestant to be a unionists . Anyone that wants to remain in the UK is a unionists no matter what their religion is . A Catholic that wants to remain in the UK will never call himself a unionists but that’s what he is . If sixty percent of the population in NI voted to remain in the UK then that means sixty percent are unionists .
@Jack Moss: and when 51% decide to vote for reunification then that means 51% are nationalists and it will happen. See how that works??
@M Bowe: I would say that at 51%, it won’t go very smoothly. There may be (more) troubles ahead.
@Shdne: most experts believe that the Catholic population is not going to keep increasing . At the current trend a united Ireland is not going to happen .
@tony mc g: a democratic majority of 50.1% is a majority. Any attempt to deny that will just revert back to the gerrymandering of establishment of a sectarian state in first place. Completely unacceptable.
Nothing matters Michael when you are free! A big yes vote is important. Make partition a thing of the past and we will all be better off.
I’ll be voting YES. Partition has been disastrous for both sides of the border. Even the DUP realise now that the British don’t give a toss about them. Unity now.
@Anthony Curran: actually the border has been a total success . It aloud the 26 counties to prosper as an independent country . The troubles were contained into the six counties which is part of the UK . This allowed the security forces to concentrate large numbers of people into a small area to suppress a terrorist insurgency resulting in minimum loss of life . You can’t say the border was failure when you don’t what an island without the border would have looked like . Ireland was facing an all island civil war which was prevented by the border .
@Jack Moss: and that threat came from the British. The partition treaty came with the threat of “immediate and terrible war” if rejected.
@Jack Moss: You are having a laugh. The logic is funny. There would be no trouble in the six counties if there was no border. Please stop and take your medicine.
@M Bowe: actually the physical border was erected by the new Irish state . Tarriffs were added to all goods imported from the UK which ment border checkpoints going up . The British and unionists didn’t want any physical border . They believe that Ireland would come back into the UK and any border would prevent that from happening .
I feel that people in the North wont vote yes…simply because theyll look at the amount of money London pumps into it…financially the North is better in the UK..and thats what itll come down to. Our public services down here are struggling at best presently without another 1m odd to add to add
@Justin Flynn: Westminster throws crumbs at the north. Jeff and co spend their lives with the begging bowl out, all just to tell themselves they’re as British as Finchley. It’s embarrassing to watch.
@Justin Flynn: two thirds of people in the ROI don’t have access to free health care . Why would the people of NI give up their free health service . Ireland and the UK is an aging population . That means the elderly outnumber the young . In any future ref in Ireland or the UK it is the elderly that will decide the outcome of future refs . The elderly and the young vote for different reasons .
@Jack Moss: That’s the only thing we need to change here, allowing people access to markets of value. In ROI this is met with self-inflicted punishment, import taxes etc. The Brits take a very different approach, just look at their car market!!… for no reason other than our elected officials it’s a third more expensive. In healthcare, yes the NHS is crumbling under the Tories but it does work, certainly when I was in the UK (albeit a decade ago) it worked perfectly well for me. I would imagine that any party who is going to push for a united Ireland will confront those issues.
@Jack Moss: agree
@Jack Moss: People in the 26 live a full year longer than the 6. That is easy to understand. The people in the 26 that need free healthcare get it, 40% of the population. Facts, facts, facts.
@Thesaltyurchin: A decade ago. Have you watched any news in the last 10 years? The Irish health system is rated better than Britain’s.
@Mike smith: the medical card is awarded on a points system . People that don’t have enough points don’t get it . A relative of mine working for Dublin Corporation received a small pension when she retired . The pension ment she didn’t qualify for the medical card . It’s discrimination .
@Mike smith: It’s also exponentially more expensive (unless you’re poor).
I see 2 standouts in this article
1) – the economics have totally flipped & now the R.O.I. is significantly better off than the U.K. Plus it also has a better quality of life
2) – No plan for a united Ireland. We don’t seem to do planning very well, that needs to change and massively so.
Also some sort of unification should mean greater local government – which would definitely be an improvement
@Gerry Kelly: One thing is planned already – when the Irish telephone numbering plan was defined, the 031 & 081 telephone area codes were reserved for Belfast and Derry/Londonderry respectively, and are still available for implementation if/when a UI is ever realised.
Any cost involved in re uniting the North and south of Ireland, should be out of the pockets of the British establishment. They cut the country in two , look at how well that worked out !!
@Gregory C Donoghue: I’d be intrigued to know what you read … by the way , scrolling doesn’t count .
NI isn’t really Irish nor British, they have formed their own identity and culture over the years. It could never be part of true Ireland or Britain.
@J M: All the boys are out. Tosh. Have you seen the rugby team?
The ‘lucht oraiste’ will have to vote fro a UI for their own interests. Do they want to be a minority to those whom they have discriminated for the past century – or throw their lot in with a population who have annual referendums on subjects of equality.
Living in England it would be an enormous sense of relief to have one Ireland at peace with itself proud to say I come from there.
Coming from Northern Ireland and living in England I’m sick of the ambiguity of how to describe oneself, English people saying ‘You’re not Irish, you’re British’ or ‘You’re not as British as us’ attitude and you do feel foreign to their ways. I felt an enormous sense of grounding and satisfaction having my Irish citizenship confirmed with my Irish passport to prove I am Irish and not one Brit can ever deny or take that away from me.
Northern Ireland’s nationalists and Unionists are a different breed than the people of the Republic, they are more resilient , stronger and have endured more on their own, they are stronger and better together , Southerners would not have the ability to govern them they just couldn’t cope. They would have to capitulate to the North and would soon have a Northern Taoiseach. Northern Ireland’s future is not with Dublin, or London but Belfast an independent, United alternative Ulster.
@Fiacra De Lacy: It will not be governed by the 26, it will be part of the government. It is not a take over, it is unity. NI has no independence option, unity is the only alternative to 6/9 of Ulster.
It’s simple maths really ….. 26+6 = 1
@K H: i thought it was 32
A lot of people talk about border polls in 10 years etc. without giving any reason for the timeframe. A lot, or anything could happen in that time from a global point of view. But in terms of NI specifically if Cathloic v Protestant means anything from a voting point of view (which it does if not much from a religious one these days) the demographic switch in people born into and dying off in these religions will really start to bite in around the mid 2030’s maybe even slightly earlier. That will eventually filter through at the polls. There is no other outcome really. If peace can be maintained and people can see that the ‘other side’ are not some monsters or don’t have that drummed into them and a realistic plan is laid out then things are possible. The big elephant in the room is that Britain have little to no interest in NI. They quietly wish it would just go away. There is no recovering from that or changing it and that is one of the biggest reasons why things will only go one way.
@John Moore: sorry but the days when a Catholic wanted to be part of the ROI and a Protestant wanted to be part of the UK is over . Doesn’t work like that anymore.
@Jack Moss: Wishful thinking. John Bull will push NI towards unity. They are being softened up now.
@John Moore: If Northern Ireland get up & running & gets all the investment its promised it will be a lot harder to get a poll in favour of unification
@Gregory C Donoghue: even for Mary Loo with the long arms.
You can’t be an Ulsterman without being Irish. Boxing, rugby, and quite a few otters are leading the way and showing us that we are better off being one Ireland. It does not ever mean that those who recognise as British also will ever be less British. It just means we are all Irish. V
What about the Fir Bolg and the Tuatha De Danann who came here originally. We’re imposters coming from near the Caspian Sea. Further back but a bit like natives of the Americas and the white man. We’re a mixture of many tribes.
Before people rush to vote yes just pause… Northern Ireland is a state very dependent on exchequer handouts from London … in a united ireland who is going to pay for this … the republic cannot afford a united ireland … it’s as simple as that
@Gerry R: just add it the €200 billion or so we already owe, sure what another few billion between neighbours.
The DUP would hold us to ransom. They would threaten to walk out of any UI every budget day and the south would pay through the nose.
Not worth the constant shyte coming out of their mouths.
@Notty Tee: The DUP is 7% of the national vote. Good luck to them.
A definite no . The many friends and acquaintances and their families ruthlessly murdered by sein fein and their families are ignored and laughed at by the sein fein bigger family .
Sein fein need to unmask the murderers and those who spied on gave intelligence to the murder machine.
Murder is murder , regardless of politics.
All victims of Sein Fein are entitled to the truth , they can’t get an inquest or an inquiry from Sein fein a secret organisation set up to murder , bomb and terrorise.
Equality for all ?
This greyhead shares the ambition to unite Ireland as a real Republic, but not an enlarged version of our existing society, which is dominated by a “don’t rock the boat”property owning class. An increasing population of citizens struggle to get childcare,school places, gp access, prompt health care services without having to pay 2k plus private insurance, and obtain a home to rear a couple of children. Those that do, are subject to frightening increases in home costs,whether interests rates, power,heat,insurances & food inflation all driven by “market forces” which this state seems helpless to manage.
I can’t see myself voting to extend this dysfunctional structure to the Irish/British section of the country.
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