We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
THE SOCIAL MEDIA chit-chat has begun, the excitement is building and before we know it, communion season will be upon us once again.
And while many families will proceed down the traditional route, a growing number will not.
For families of mixed religion or no religion, as well as families where parents were raised Catholic but who are no longer part of the faith, communion time poses something of a conundrum.
In March 2017, following the revelations about the babies buried in unmarked graves in Tuam, we decided to withdraw as a family from the Catholic church. This meant, of course, also withdrawing our children from the sacraments including making their First Holy Communion.
We were very conscious that, just around the corner, our son’s classmates and friends would be partaking. We all know the drill: fancy outfits, a big family day out and, of course, the kids making off like bandits.
We were worried that our son Brandon would feel excluded, that he was missing out because of our decision.
So we decided to organise our own celebration and ceremony.
As chance would have it, we had recently watched an incredible celebrant in action – at a friend’s wedding.
Eithne Dempsey is accredited by the Humanist Association of Ireland and when we contacted her she said she would be delighted to help us create a special ceremony for children not making their communion.
Having secured our celebrant, we then needed a suitable venue, and many phone calls later we booked the perfect place, the Finnstown Castle Hotel. The event management team loved the idea and also worked with us every step of the way.
We asked around among the parents of the kids our son’s class and we posted on parent’s groups on a few social media sites. Soon we had 12 children from 10 families signed up to take part in the milestone ceremony.
(Our celebrant was also assisted by two ‘little helpers’ – younger siblings of the children participating in the ceremony. )
Most of the families involved did not know each other prior to becoming part of the project but they all had the same goal… to ensure that our children would have a special day of their own.
Prior to the ceremony, the children got together for a picnic and games and got to know each other. To celebrate their connection with nature they planted an Irish oak tree which was 8 years old – the same age as the children themselves.
The big day arrived and we were in luck with the weather – it was bright and dry, slightly overcast but perfect for outdoor photos.
There were 140 people in attendance and the atmosphere was friendly and upbeat. We played songs from children’s movies playing in the background.
The celebrant Eithne delivered an uplifting ceremony based on the theme of ‘we are all connected’. We aimed to celebrate the kids’ connection to their loved ones and the wider human family, as well as to nature and all living things.
Some of the children contributed to the ceremony by singing and reading poetry.
Each child had been involved in a personal project prior to the ceremony, some of which were impressive. One girl, Caila, had organised a bake sale to raise money to purchase a water filtration system for a family in Africa.
We incorporated a ‘pouring of sand’ activity, which saw the children choose different coloured sands which they poured in layers into a large decorative glass vase.
One highlight of the ceremony was the ‘wish tree’. In the run-up to the big day, the children had prepared their wishes and the parents wrote letters to their children.
As part of the ceremony, the children wrote their wish for the future on a silver tag which they then put in a decorative ‘wish box’. Then the parents placed their letter to their child inside the wish box, and in turn, took their child’s wish for the future and hung it on the wish tree.
It was emotional stuff and brought parents and children together for the conclusion of our ceremony in a really moving way.
After we took photos and had a bite to eat, we held a combined afters, for those families who wanted to stay on, with a DJ and children’s entertainer. This allowed the children an opportunity to invite their friends to join in the celebration.
By creating our own celebration in place of communion, we went from parents who were worried that our decision to raise our son Brandon without religion would affect him negatively to parents who had witnessed our son having an absolute blast.
Back in school afterwards, he was also able to engage with the first communion children’s banter about their own big days. He didn’t feel he had been excluded or missed out.
It seems to me that we have cracked the communion conundrum.
Another happy side effect of organising the ceremony was that we got to meet other amazing people who are also raising their kids in a non-religious way.
The event became so much more than we had originally envisioned and the feedback from the other families was so good, that we decided to do it all again this year.
So in May it’s all happening again – we have the same celebrant, venue and kids’ entertainer organised. The event is non-profit making and so it is a cost-effective alternative for families who want one. At the time of writing, we have a few spaces left for that event.
We have also set up the Little Big Day Project to assist parents or schools who would like to organise similar events.
If your child is not making their First Holy Communion, you too could organise a milestone ceremony in your area – its fun, rewarding and a chance to connect with other like-minded families.
Most importantly your child will not feel excluded this May. Let’s celebrate our kids – no child in Ireland should miss out on having a special day.
Tony O’Donohoe is a Secular Humanist and IT specialist based in Dublin. With his wife Sharon O’Donohoe he is the coordinator of the Little Big Day Project, which aims to organise and promote non-religious milestone ceremonies for children.
Email: littlebigdayproject@gmail.com
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Or maybe a little more of just telling our children “no” you’re not doing/getting that.
@Of a break. Of a Kitkat.: Nah, I like the idea. Religion isn’t a good, or indeed necessary part of modern life – but rituals are still important. They create those pivotal moments, without which our lives can feel a bit unstructured. Celebrating birthdays is a good example, but it’s a bit individualistic, so it’s nice to have a communal celebration that isn’t just so some vengeful ghost won’t withhold virtues from you. In conclusion, you’re wrong.
@Of a break. Of a Kitkat.: There are non religious alternatives for christenings weddings and funerals. Now, somebody is putting on an alternative for non religious families for their kids. This could be a gamechanger for parents raised catholic who don’t want their kids to go down that road, or don’t want them to be excluded from having their own day.
BRAVO
@Of a break. Of a Kitkat.: Hi. The whole thing was/is parent led. Parents got together and organised it for our children, they didn’t ask for it or demand it!
@Alex Reed: Atheist families don’t exclude children from making THEIR holy communion, any more than I was excluded from having MY bar mitzvah. Think about it.
@Of a break. Of a Kitkat.: This is so funny. Dumping their faith in religion but not the country over a scandal where the both the Church and State were complicit. And then running happy little days out for kids to make up for the lifetime deprivation of faith which they’ve just taken from the kids. The brave new world…! Really hilarious – made my Friday!
@Dr Richard DeWitt: Faith is simply belief without evidence.
What I find hilarious is now parents have even LESS reason to go through the motions with the catholic church.
@The Risen: same money will be spent…god of mammon same as ever
@Conor Bradley: So what ” Milestone” exactly are they marking and celebrating?? Is the answer ” our son’s alternative to holy communion”??? Cos if it is….its sad.
@Margate: It’s the age of reason milestone. That information is all over this page, if you had bothered to check.
@Margate: hate that
It’s like the vegetarians with quorn and tofu versions of meat dishes; if you’ve to make such efforts to imitate traditional approaches then maybe there’s something to the traditional approach that we shouldn’t so blithely discard.
@Winston Smith: Hi Winston, this is for families not raising children in the Catholic faith. Think naming ceremonies. Their purpose is not to ‘discard’ christenings, but to provide a non religious celebration of birth/naming. We are something similar.
@Winston Smith: there is something to it. That’s the point of the article. It’s ritual. Just no need for it to be based on any God. We held a humanist ceremony for our kids at the same time as the communion. It was a very special ceremony with the kids at the centre of it and no religion. Just a perfect hour or so. It can be done. You may say that I’m a dreamer…but I’m not the only one. Each to their own.
@Winston Smith: so would you say the same about non church weddings?
@AnnieBelle: yes. It’s about the people involved. No need for any dogma. Make it a real celebration of love and what makes it special. Our kids called the day their “happy day”. Says it all really. Good luck to those thinking of doing the same.
@Justin Healy: I agree 100%. We chose a non religious wedding, we only got married in 2015 and it was funny certain people said things to us like “are your parents annoyed you are not getting married in a church? The fact is most of these rituals such as communion and confirmation, even church weddings are not done because people are devout Catholics…they’re done because they’re deemed “the norm”, I would love to see people stop being a bunch of sheep
@MyLittleBigDay: do you have a Facebook page.
@MyLittleBigDay: it’s a Catholic concept that you are celebrating …
@John Kelly: John, you have proven repeatedly in this comments section that you have absolutely no idea what you are on about. First you accuse the author of doing it to make money, which he clearly is not, and now you claim that the age of reason and/or milestone ceremony is a catholic concept which you could not be more wrong about.
Please do your homework beyond typing ‘age of reason’ into google and regurgitating the first couple of hits that come back.
@John Kelly: Catholic Communion for children actually has its roots in several religious traditions, notably the Jewish Bar Mitzvah. Previously, First Communion was given when a child was between 10 and 13 years of age. It was Pope Pious X that lowered the age to its current age. So, no, it’s not a Catholic concept.
I like this idea. A great compromise that doesn’t exclude the kids from their peers but also doesn’t pressure parents into doing something they aren’t comfortable with. Fair play.
You decided to leave the Catholic church because of the tuam babies??? Are you going to emigrate also because of the state’s involvement with Tuam also? And can i ask if your kids are going to have an alternate barmitzvah too? If you are no longer catholics obviously you wont be celebrating the birth of Jesus do no toy show or christmss tree for you either.
Where is the eye roll plus give me w break emoji???
@Ismise Máire: the baby jesus (who was NOT born in December [celebrating the solstice], or deity made man) doesn’t bring toys or presents at Christmas, and there’s no Santa mentioned in the bible. Decorated fir trees aren’t Christian either, just one of many traditions appropriated from other faiths, if it’s ok for christians to take other traditions and mould them into something useful to their purposes why is it a problem for others to do something similar?
@Ismise Máire: If you still think Christmas is about the birth of Jesus you are sadly mistaken. Plus you should do some research into the origins of why Decemeber 25th was chosen for “The birth of Christ”. Hint: it wasn’t because of a virgin giving birth to a baby boy in a book of fairy tales
@Karen Wellington: funny how you celebrate the birth of Jebus on the same day every year but his death anniversary is a different day every year……………eye roll
@AnnieBelle: that’s because they wanted to get in on people already celebrating the vernal equinox (and passover), easier than constructing a whole new holiday I suppose
@Ismise Máire: the eye roll emoji you’re looking for can be found in the deep pocket of your local parish priest. Keep reaching, g’wan it’s down there somewhere, ooooh lovely
@Ismise Máire: that was a turning point for a lot of people.
@Ismise Máire: Now the Irish have become “proaborts”, why not emigrate?
@Karen Wellington: ahem, its a traditional, cultural and religious celebration done by all people faith or none. Animism, paganism and Christianity all woven and creating these moments. Room for all. Relax.
@Ismise Máire: ah good old Máire, still buying up the church I see!!!
What a brilliant initiative. A great idea for children, and long overdue. Well done to everybody involved for making it happen!
@MyLittleBigDay: Have you spaces left for this May, asking for a friend………..
@Unconvertible Rebel: Hi there. Yes, we have some spaces left for our ceremony and day of celebration. Please pass on the following: You can mail us at littlebigdayproject@gmail.com and check out the photos of last years ceremony at http://www.facebook.com/mylittlebigday
Please advise them that in the interest for fairness, it’s first come first served, thank you
@MyLittleBigDay: Will do, thank you.
@MyLittleBigDay: I had a proper look at your FB page, the photos are STUNNING
I had the honour of being at the ceremony mentioned in the article last summer. It was a breath of fresh, a celebration completely about the children. Unlike first communions the whole immediate and extended family could be there for the whole thing.
I’m delighted to read that the organisers are keeping it going for another year and non profit as well. Hats off.
@were jammin: PS. What exactly were you marking and celebrating??
Twud have been easier just get communion
@minorproblem: yeah but some people have principles and don’t just blindly follow everyone else
@Neil Mac: oh, so the people embracing atheism en masse based on recent trends without a moments consideration for the greater societal impacts of abandoning belief structures that have maintained our communities for millennia are the free thinkers? Tell me, was it Nietzsche’s musings on the almighty that convinced you to question traditional beliefs, or was that solely based on Dawkins’ Christmas best seller? I’m always so impressed by the strength of character of those willing to embrace whatever currently happens to be popular.
@Winston Smith: You don’t ‘embrace’ not believing in god any more than you embrace not collecting stamps
Atheism is the default prior to indoctrination.
@The Risen: if atheism was the default why has every culture in human history independently developed belief in higher powers than humans? Usual unthinking catchphrase approach to philosophy so common in left wing thought, and it’s that unthinking philosophical nature that so often leads to the human devastation of left wing thought becoming ascendant.
@Winston Smith: developed belief in a higher power? So you accept that no one was born with this belief, it had to be consciously developed?
@Winston Smith: Not to point out the mind numbingly obvious, but you have proved my point. My own son has had zero indoctrination and we do not discuss either religion or atheism around him intentionally. He does not believe in a god. Atheism is the default.
@Karen Wellington: the conscious development of that belief is inevitable as evidenced by the fact every culture in history has developed that belief.
@The Risen: he’ll believe in something, possibly a lot more dangerous than Christianity. The arrogant believe rejecting religion means rejecting religiosity. These people are unfamiliar with history.
@The Risen: and sorry, I proved your point by referencing every human community in human history, which you countered with a vague anecdote about your son? Unthinking catchphrase philosophy.
@Winston Smith: https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/disbelieve-it-or-not-ancient-history-suggests-that-atheism-is-as-natural-to-humans-as-religion
@Karen Wellington: hardly surprising. People have questioned things at every juncture in history. The point is that every culture had belief in higher powers, albeit with not every individual in a society subscribing to that belief, completely independently of each other. When the Romans conquered new and foreign lands there were already in place complex structures of belief in higher powers. When Europeans landed in the Americas and Australia more recently the same was found. We can’t have been learning these beliefs and behaviours from each other, so it must be inherent. It doesn’t just apply to religion either, we have a need for presuppositional beliefs in order to understand the world around us, and we should be wary about abandoning any of those beliefs without consideration.
@Winston Smith: a children independently develop imaginary friends too, if you don’t cultivate that belief they’ll grow out of it.
@Winston Smith: I’m a pagan actually, I worship the sun. At least I can see the actual benefits and physical evidence of what the sun can do for us. Everyone needs the sun. The sun is badass
@Winston Smith: ‘ he’ll believe in something, possibly a lot more dangerous than Christianity.’
He believes in science. You know, the stuff that put that smartphone in your hand/PC under your desk. No burning bushes necessary.
@The Risen: “He believes in science” Lol, science is just a process, it’s not something to be “believed” in, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. Science can also describe the bodies of knowledge of humanity regarding the physical realities of our surroundings. It is entirely independent of metaphysical beliefs. You’re strangely certain about things you demonstrably lack even the most rudimentary understanding of.
@Winston Smith: Now now Winston, lets not play silly beggars. When I refer to science, it’s pretty obvious I’m referring to scientific endeavour. He believes in the picture of nature and the cosmos that scientific endeavour has given us. For example, he believes that we are created from ‘star stuff’ i.e. atoms from and created by collapsing stars, as the science tells us. So much nicer than scripture folklore.
@The Risen: it’s not silly buggers, they’re entirely different things. Your son does not “believe” we are made from star dust (to put it in simple terms), he knows this based on evidence. If contrary evidence were presented then many if not all would no longer believe this theory. It is still merely acceptance of a process, not a metaphysical belief. We can base much of our understanding of life and existence on evidence based processes, but that does not negate the human need for metaphysical beliefs also, and that human need will be met, be it through religion or something different and potentially a lot more dangerous. Can universal human rights be proven using the scientific method, and if not why would you believe in them?
@Winston Smith: tell me you’re not really this dumb
Winston, you can’t force yourself to believe in something. Either you believe, or you don’t believe. The primary driver behind the switch to atheism is not a decision to abandon God (which implies that people still believe in him), but is a result of scientific achievements. MRI, X-ray, cosmological discoveries, microwaves, global telecommunications, air travel, automobiles, vaccines, brain surgery, etc have all come about because of science and are all tangible, visible evidence of the benefit of an enquiring, logical and critical thinking process which does not need the presence, or lack, of a God. The only thing any belief system has brought is unquestioning faith in religious people, 1,000, 2,000 and 3,000 year old books and questions on very subjective and dubious morality.
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: Grimaldi was a Jesuit, rumours of Copernicus’ priesthood seem to persist, and whether true or not he certainly had a very close relationship with the church. Religious faith didn’t seem to restrict their scientific endeavours. The idea that religion and science are polarised philosophical positions is nonsense, although oft repeated nonsense that has caused many to accept it. The tensions between the two are historical and were to do with the churches not wanting to relinquish their powerful positions in society. There is no philosophical inconsistency between the two (except for certain niche areas like Jehovah witnesses and medicine) that would create a binary between religious belief or scientific endeavour.
@We Love Katamari: Actually Winston has made some very interesting points. You on the other hand have nothing but childish insults.
Who’s really dumb?
I’m an atheist by the way but I’m tired of asking people how they arrived at their lack of belief and being met with a blank stare.
They tend to be the types who trumpet their atheism from the roof tops.
@Winston Smith: as I said, science is not dependent on the presence or lack of faith. When scientific achievements enter people’s everyday lives and people become more aware that medicine will cure an illness quicker than a Hail Mary or a recital from a Quran, that telephone conversations can connect people far better than a Gospel reading, they begin to lose faith. It’s not people suddenly making a conscious decision to reject God, as that rejection still requires belief. It’s simply that, if he exists, he doesn’t show any way to prove it. None. There is not one shred of evidence that any higher being exists. There is, however, proof in the scientific method. And when that does not require any belief in the superstitious, it becomes inevitable that people simply won’t believe.
@Will: thanks Will :) I’m not actually religious myself either, although I avoid the atheist tag mainly because of the sort of people you mention and my lack of desire to be associated with them. I just believe traditional religious and belief structures must have some merit for them to have successfully persisted for so long, and we should be wary about throwing the baby out with the bath water as we move away from religion. Religiosity is part of the human condition, so if we completely abandon religion it will be replaced, and we don’t know what with. I also find the atheist claim of an inherent human morality independent of religion to be laughable; have these people never heard of the vikings or Romans?! Or even the communists of recent times?
@Winston Smith: Nope. Christianity spread thanks to fear, diktat, cruelty and torture, rather than the merits of its structure. Read up on the emperor constantine or the inquisition.
@The Risen: I never claimed otherwise. I don’t mean to be cruel but I think this conversation is all a little over your head. Stick to the catchphrases sure, they only become dangerous when they become too popular.
@Brian Ó Dálaigh: “science is not dependent on the presence or lack of faith.” Precisely, because the two are entirely unrelated. Why would my ability to contact somebody by phone in Australia cause me to disregard all the beliefs of my ancestors, or my ability to fly on a plane cause me to disregard the community and common morality that religion can bestow? These are unrelated topics, one neither proves nor discounts the other.
@Winston Smith: your comments are going over the risens head????
hahahaha
‘ I also find the atheist claim of an inherent human morality independent of religion to be laughable; have these people never heard of the vikings or Romans?!’
The vikings were religious, they worshipped Odin, Thor and Frey.
The Romans were also religious, they worshipped Gods also.
Oh, and all of the christians who tortured and burned people alive over the years, religious also.
While you’re on about morals.
@We Love Katamari: do you actually have anything to contribute? You may think you’re mocking my intelligence, but do you honestly believe you’re coming across as well informed, or even informed for that matter, based on your childish comments?
@The Risen: yes, and Odin said ‘‘twas grand to slaughter people if you wanted their stuff, so slaughter the vikings did. Roman beliefs in honourable suicide meant abusing your slaves unmercifully was morally sound. The communists believed slaughtering the ideologically unsound was morally acceptable in pursuit of their revolutionary goals. All this speaks to external sources of morality, and as those external sources alter our moral codes alter. This illustrates the lack of inherent morality in humans.
Honest question, are you genuinely struggling to understand what’s being discussed here this much, or is this just some sort of silly deflection?
@Winston Smith: Just because Dawkins may have annoyed you recently doesn’t make it a recent fad. Ludovik Kennedy had a similar book decades ago. You seem unaware of the long decline in religion in western Europe since the age of enlightenment. And look around, you will find plenty right-wing non-unbelievers too, it’s not really a left/right issue, more of a superstition/education issue.
@Squiddley Diddley: I’m not saying belief is a left/right issue, I’m quite right wing and don’t believe. I’m saying catchphrase philosophy is a left wing thing in recent times, and that catchphrase philosophy can be very dangerous because all you need is reasonable sounding catchphrases for pretty unreasonable things to get the hoi poloi onside. I don’t buy the education argument you’re presenting either, I’ve never seen any compelling evidence that the more educated are less likely to be religious. The wealthier tend to be less religious certainly, and I think this gets confused with education because of correlation.
@Winston Smith: But, they’re not unrelated. The more people have become exposed to the scientific method, the more they have started opening their minds and exploring new questions, including those of existence and the afterlife. And, while disciplines such as physics, chemistry, engineering, etc have given people tangible results that benefit them, belief in a higher being has given them nothing. Over time, it is simply natural, given ever-increasing exposure to science and its methods, that people will simply find it incredulous that there could be a higher being.
@Winston Smith: Simply put, everyone who is an atheist trusts and has, in their hands, physical proof of the benefits of science and the scientific method. You will find that those scientists who do believe in a higher power are definitely the smallest minority in that group of people, and for a reason. The more you question, the more you realise that the existence of a higher power is is so unlikely, that it is next to impossible. And so, people stop believing. It really is that simple. If belief gives you comfort, then I’m happy for you. That’s all everyone wants. To be happy. But, going back to the original point, no one makes a conscious decision to believe or not. They simply either do or do not believe based on their own experiences.
@Neil Mac: …they prefer to be blindly led instead.
@Margate: I was at last years ceremony. The children were presented with a little silver ‘flying free’ pin, a symbol of free thought. LITERALLY the opposite of being ‘blindly led’
Woeful display of ignorance from many contributors today on this article.
@were jammin: Ah, would you get real, seriously! Children being indoctrinated with a ” flying free” tag, at aged 7/8??? Try being a mature parent maybe, it might actually help your child.
@Margate: Presenting children with a symbol representing thinking for themselves is, again, literally the opposite of indoctrination.
You have moved from woeful to willful display of ignorance, well done you!
@Margate: scarlet for ya
@were jammin: Desist from using populist cliches, its just an excuse for other inadequacies tbh. As a wiser parent of a no of children, dont talk to me about ‘ ignorance’. Wisdom and experience will never replace jumped up, unsubstantiated, flavour-of-the- month, guilt ridden, so- called Parenting. You have a lot to learn.
What a wonderful idea. I’m sure the RCC will be only to delighted when those who want a performance and a party depart and leave the church to those who actually want their children to receive the sacraments.
Oooh, we’re going to throw our own party, and it will be better,…..
@Matt Connolly: Its obviously better for them, what’s the problem?
There has always been something incredibly sick and twisted in making small girls dress as up as wedding brides, especially given that institutions track record.
@Orla Smith: Spot on. The little ‘brides of christ’ thing is nauseating. I was just looking on the facebook page linked in the article. The kids look brilliant! How refreshing.
@Orla Smith: nobody made them dress up apart from the families. There is no dress code to receive first Holy Communion. In fact, some people receive in their school uniforms. Children are free to wear whatever they like.
@Pajo Mata: People don’t need to dress up for weddings either. If the dress code was either ‘smart casual’ or ‘Sunday best’, a lot of money would be saved all round.
@The Risen: they are not brides of christ nor anyone else white is a sign of innocence im sick and tired of people who do not believe in tge catholic church spoutting their mouths off. You dont believe thats your right but dont condem me because i do. If you dont like the teachings of the church then just ignore it.
@Mona Murphy: Mona, I don’t condemn you for your belief, I was a believer myself at one stage.
As for the teachings of your church, I will never ignore the teachings that have the potential to cause harm to the people I love, either physically, mentally or emotionally.
Just looked at their web page linked in the article. Lads, if you think this bears any relation or resemblance to a holy communion you are embarrasing yourselves.
About time that there was an alternative celebration for non religious families, I would have loved something like this to be available myself at the time.
What complete BS. If you are not a catholic then you don’t make communion or confirmation simple as. I’m not a catholic so my children and they were none the worse off. If you reject the original then why would you want the fake?
@Michael: fake? It’s a milestone, a communal day of celebrations with other kids and the day is all about them. Nothing religious or creepy, no little wedding dresses or brides of christ etc. We all need milestones in our lives or it all just blurs over time. It’s a day for the kids to remember and it’s seems like a great day for everyone. No ones is faking some pompous religious indoctrination event.
@Derek: it’s made up …
@John Kelly: All ceremonies are made up.
@The Risen: yes they are which proves my point exactly …
@John Kelly: you weren’t making a point.
If you don’t believe in it you shouldn’t mark it in any way … or maybe there’s room for the … first holy humanist concelebration .. all the girls could wear white like the American lady politicians .. and the boys could wear suits like all male politicians.. except for failed builder politicians who wear pink
@John Kelly: Good morning John. The celebration is to mark the ‘age of reason’ milestone, which children reach whether they are being raised in a faith or not. Belief has nothing to do with it.
@MyLittleBigDay: you made it up in other words to make money out of it … we now have age of reason day .. this humanist stuff is becoming very like a religion … soon they will have buildings where people go to celebrate … also known as churches .. and then a leader .. oh also known as a pope .. cop the hell on
@John Kelly: John, it is ENTIRELY non profit, as outlined in the article. All families received a spreadsheet outlining income vs expenditure to confirm this.
@MyLittleBigDay: isn’t that what a religion is ..
You made this up ….
People get paid very well in some non profits.. in other words it’s stated financial objective is to break even …
@John Kelly: John you claimed they made it up to make money, they corrected you. Be nice.
@The Risen: they do make money .. everyone gets an equal cut of the pie … they just don’t have spare money in a bank account .. not profit makes it seem all fluffy and nice ..it’s a money maker and I am being nice.. I have another view on this that’s all ..
@John Kelly: John, again, just to clarify, it is completely non profit. We have not received ‘an equal cut of the pie’ or have made one red cent, for that matter. It was completely at our own time and expense, and continues to be.
lads, you’re being trolled, and by a pretty crap troll at that
@MyLittleBigDay: Manipulative and simply Capitalising on guilt-ridden, naive parents foolish enough to be taken in with your ridiculous hypothesis. And my comments relate little to the Religious aspects of this debate, but more so to people like you who exploit a vulnerability in the’ market’ so to speak.
Sounds like a veggie burger
@dublincomments: optional?
@Karen Wellington: smells like a veggie burger
I love the idea, had planned on bringing my little girl to Eurodisney as a Communion Alternative. It’s something I struggle with being honest as I don’t want Jr. To feel that she’s missing out so this is a great initiative. Kudos to the families who came together. #PeoplePower. Ps how many children are christened solely to get into school, have a big day out with their peers. It’s every parents choice but am happy to have opted out.
@Laura Grimes: jaysus cheaper to have a communion .. imagine giving a child a choice between communion and eurodisney
@John Kelly: I think the idea is to disassociate with the rcc by not going through the sacrament. Who’d stay with an organisation that condones slavery, human trafficking, paedophilia, etc. just to save money on an non-compulsory event?
@Karen Wellington: going to eurodisney isn’t compulsory either … think of the slave wages they pay and the exploitation of young people making them believe in fairies and stuff
@John Kelly: yeah I know…I just said that.
It’s not compulsory to go through any of these ‘age of reason’ rituals so why would anyone seek out the cheaper options despite fundamentally disagreeing with it; if you want to save money don’t do any of them.
@Laura Grimes: Gosh, I feel for your ‘ struggles,’ your tough dilemma re Eurodisney, your worries for your child ‘ missing out’ , its SO tough. Would you ever just let your child BE a child, and you start acting like a Parent…
Look ,you either believe or don’t and would either side not be bothering each other O God would yea ever grow up
A lot of effort and expense from parents imposing their views on their children.
If this were about a family and what they did for First Holy Communion there would be uproar about “brainwashing”, “indoctrination” etc but what these parents are doing is exactly the same just a different way.
@Phillip O’Brien: agreed … it’s like my sweet 16 birthday … load of b/=÷×cks
@Phillip O’Brien: yes agreed, its more about the Parents wanting to show off
It simply a catholic thing. So if you are not catholic then you don’t do it, simple. Anglicans, Methodist, Prespaterians nor Baptist make it, so are you so attached to Catholicism that even though you have left that you can’t let it go?
@Michael: Judaism; Bar/Bat Mitzvah, Sikhism; Amrit Sanchar, Buddiem; Shinbyu, Confucianism; Guan Li, Hinduism; Dvija, Shinto; Genpuku.
Christianity isn’t the only religion with a ceremony.
Secular versions also already exist. Latin America; Quinceañera, Papua New Guinea; Kovave, Cambodia; khmer.
It’s not even a Christian thing, let alone catholic.
@Karen Wellington: You keep on mentioning other Religions, so why are non-religious people clinging onto religious type ceremonies ?
@Gowon Geter: Can you not see the secular versions that I posted (in the exact same comment your referencing)?
@Karen Wellington: think you copied and pasted from wiki a bit carelessly there; Khmer isn’t a Cambodian ceremony, Khmer is the Cambodian people. Be kinda weird if the Khmer Rouge had been named after their equivalent of confirmation!
@Winston Smith: it’s not their equivalent of a confirmation (Christian sacrament). It’s to do with mensuration and puberty, there’s no religion involved.
I’m sure it has a name I just don’t know what it is so identified it by the ethnic group who celebrate it (not the only ethnic group in Cambodia but the only one who bother with this). It involves locking a young girl in a darkened room for six months, absolutely no contact with any men (even family) and they’re only allowed to eat vegetarian, while older women in their society teach and lecture them on what it takes to be a woman. It doesn’t sound like the most fun ritual, definitely no bouncy castles.
@Winston Smith: I just checked Wikipedia and you’re right; there’s loads more secular rituals listed. The cambodian one listed isn’t what I was referring to, it sounds like something that happens later on and for both sexes.
deadly stuff, the pictures on their site are great, I’ve never seen anything like it
Maybe instead, host a non-communion party at a different time. Invite only those who didn’t do communion. Make it a ripper of a celebration.
@Smiley: why at a different time, and why not invite the other children who did make their communion (presumably they’d be available given it’s not the same weekend as their communions)?
But what about me communion mooooney???
I was born into a Catholic family but I am an Atheist.
I have rasied my children to be free and open minded with no need for nonsense cermonies and they never feel left out as they are educasted properly to the nonsense and waste of money espeicaly buiying one off clothes.
What is wromg with all these so called no religious people wanting to have Catholic type cermonies ?
Parents uning their children to feel better themselves ?
@Gowon Geter: it’s no more a communion that it is a bat’mitzvah or a graduation ceremony. Organised religion doesn’t have monopoly on the age of reason.
@Karen Wellington: never heard of the age of reason before .. where did it come from ?
@John Kelly: the age at which a child is held capable of discerning right from wrong. What do you where did it come from?
@Karen Wellington: Oh so ‘Age of reason’ at a certain age the child is held capable of discerning right from wrong.
Who decides the age ?, this is more about parents than kids as usual ..
@John Kelly: this has been around for hundreds of years and is why the RCC has First Holy Communion at the age of 7(ish). Google it.
@Gowon Geter: it’s a stage of cognitive development that most of went through.
@Karen Wellington: Clearly it was missed on many of the parents on here! Still havent reached it…
@Margate: Are you trying to say that this cognitive development stage was missed BY some people? You might have missed more than one.
@John Kelly: I was taught that the age of reason was 7/8. I am now 72.
We had an Age of Reason party for our little darlings. All the kids came, even the children of the most religious. The big clincher was the outfit – a chance to go shopping for a ‘designer’ dress with Mammy was so much cooler than those white things.
@Willie Penwright: oh god
@Willie Penwright: designer dress for a child who will grow out of it, says it all about what this is really about, parents wanting to show off. Celtic Tiger is back
My initial reaction to this was ‘FFS if we’ve decided to not partake in the now-fully-materialistic-but-hidden-behind-a-religious-tradition why should we replace it with something else!?!’. Having read the article I do think it sounds like a nice alternative for those parents who are understandably anxious about their kids feeling upset at being left out. Yes it’s easy to say ‘just move on, they’ll be Fine’ and that’ll work for some but at least there’s a viable alternative for others.
We didn’t baptise our child and not having a baptism ceremony was easy but I can image it’s a little more difficult when the child is older, forming social peer groups etc. and trying to explain the reasoning to them..it’s a bit more complex than explaining why they can’t have chocolate or play a computer game too long I would imagine.
At the same time, if more people did nothing in place of a ceremony, I wonder how long it would take for the religious ceremonies to become the strange thing to do and not the norm.
Michael, go over to their page
http://www.facebook.com/mylittlebigday
Its an age of reason milestone ceremony, not a communion
My only real memory of my communion was getting enoug money to get Pokemon Gold for my Gameboy. And for my confirmation I was given enough for a PlayStation 1 and crash bandicoot. That was the only thing I cared about. Other than fulfilling a pact with my first cousin cousin that we both took each other’s names cos that seemed like a great idea.
We are in the same boat, so we are going on holiday for 4 days, between rehearsals and photos in their dresses, it takes up a week of school.
The school couldn’t be more accommodating but still, issues do pop up, like taking her out while they go down to the church for confession.
On the plus side, she has completed 6 social and philosophy and history of religions workbooks while sitting at the back of the ‘religion’ class since September.
Each to their own but that ceremony as described sounds expensive and I’m less bothered about religion in this instance and more concerned about less-well off people putting themselves into debt, just to keep up appearances
On the plus side, I’ll be reading this all again once Paul Howard gets his hands on it
@jamesdecay: Hi James. It was not expensive at all! Everything is non profit, and by combining the afters the whole thing including ceremony cost less per family than an individual family would have to pay for even just an entertainer on their own.
@MyLittleBigDay: it’s a break even organisation .. everyone shares the income
@John Kelly: John you claimed they made it up to make money, they corrected you. Be nice.
@The Risen: he’s just determined to make a show of himself on this topic for some reason.
If you don’t want to do something don’t; whether it be religious ceremonies or hitting a pinata.
@Sean Ryan: just have a different point of view that’s all .. never want to make a show of myself .. them are my comments on an age of reason ceremony
@John Kelly: you’re carrying on as if the “age of reason” was just made up today and for this article. If wasn’t. Whether you agree with it or not (and plenty don’t agree with it, 7 is far too young to have “reason” IMHO).
@Sean Ryan: john hadn’t heard of it before today, so its OBVIOUSLY made up hahahaha
I think this decision needs to be celebrated via bouncy castle
Now here’s a crazy idea, you could just try telling the child “no”. Not everyone gets everything they want, that’s an important lesson to teach children when they young.
@Sirius: Hi. Our children didn’t ask or demand this! We asked them would they like to take part and then we organised it.
@MyLittleBigDay: yep he forced it upon them .. silly little ceremony
@John Kelly: ah, now I get it. You don’t agree with it, so you have to throw your toys out of the pram and go on like a toddler.
@We Love Katamari: did it take you that long to see I don’t agree with it .. it’s a madey uppy silly ceremony first named by the Catholic church and you make money from it .. why have an alternative ceremony to something you don’t believe in .. that’s what I call hypocritical.. like sweet 16 …
It seems like a lovely day out.
Growing up Anglican I don’t know how I managed to survive not making Holy Communion :-/
@MyLittleBigDay: Absolutely LOVE this. This could really take off, parents are crying out for an alternative. How can we contact you and are there still spaces?
@Dermo Adams: Hi Dermo. Yes, we have some places left. You can contact us at littlebigdayproject@gmail.com or via our facebook page http://www.facebook.com/mylittlebigday
So you basically created your own religion – with presenting wishing trees with silver, ritual sand pouring and you as head of the Church,
To me it sounds worse than just letting them do the Communion with their friends.
The humanist Society sees it self as a counter religion just with no God. They should learn the meaning of tolerance themselves
@bigjake: what are they being intolerant of exactly?
@bigjake: As somebody who has attended numerous humanist meetings, I can state that your comment is baloney. Humanism is built on tolerance and compassion for others, especially regarding their right to hold differing views.
@The Risen: YOU tolerant????? You told me earlier that basically I wasnt able to read. You knock any opinion different to your own. You have just NOW told someone his comment is ‘ baloney’. Correct?? You are a total hypocrite, simple as. So stop your pretentious, insulting, i – am- so- caring and tolerant antics. Easy see through fake..
@Margate: Nope, I remarked about you not bothering to read the page. Have you gotten around to it yet?
@The Risen: Being smarmy, cynical and sarcastic = tolerance???? I despair at my parenting inadequacies! And my own!!
@Margate: you do realise the Risen said Humanism is tolerant, he wasn’t extolling his own tolerance?
@Karen Wellington: What is HE then??
1. From his postings re Attending a ‘ number’ of Humanist ‘ events’ , is it not reasonable to assume his loyalty to same?
2. From his numerous postings – on here alone- and his very Strident efforts to Promote same, and Link us to such, Is it Still not reasonable to deduce his loyalties and motivations?
Well?
Humanism is fast becoming a religion (which just proves that we need religion in our lives in some shape or other) I’ll stick with the Catholic Church for the moment although the scandals are making it very difficult to stay in
@Virgil: You could argue that the more intolerant and closed minded atheists treat their lack of faith like a religion (I’ve heard it said of Atheist Ireland more than once), but Humanism ‘fast becoming a religion’?
Explain please….
@The Risen: in what way does Atheist Ireland treat Atheism as a religion, one example would be fine.
I have been an active member for years, campaigning for a secular state.
I believe you have just made a throw away remark without any foundation, but if I am wrong I would be pleased to know how.
The terminology used says it all: ‘ event management’, ‘ big day’, ‘ worried our son would feel excluded’ etc etc…for crying out loud. Cant imagine this child’s 21st ‘ party’! Utter codswollop. And we wonder about our Snowflake-y kids? This is a Marketing article, purely. Give it a rest.
@Margate: they are trying to defend it .. its a loaf of horseshite
@John Kelly: This guy must be so delighted tonight with all the publicity and commentary. And the captive audience of parents foolish enough to be taken in with this rubbish. The Flyers will be ready for the next gig , by the Humanist Society to canvas ‘ followers’, just wait.
I’ve just been watching a movie based in Kenya. The boys had to kill a lion with a spear to be regarded as a man. That’s a proper ceremony
The Age Of Reason is defined by the Catholic church as the age which a person is morally liable for their sins ..
It was also a Philosophical movement in the 18th century
Yep we should certainly celebrate those …
@John Kelly: Why would you use the catholic church definition when the ceremony or children taking part aren’t catholic?
(oh, and your other definition refers to the wrong ‘age of reason’)
Silly goose.
@The Risen: that’s what Google says .. you told me to look it up.. you sillier goose … I took your word for it… how many definitions are there for age if reason .. doesn’t deny that their is one that the Catholic church have …
@John Kelly: Hi John, the age of reason is simply the age at which children are considered, in the main, to be able to determine right from wrong.
@MyLittleBigDay: yep and it was defined by the Catholic church
@John Kelly: Jesus, you really are consistent in your wrongness today, aren’t you? The age of reason is not defined by the catholic church, the catholic church simply use it as a yardstick for when children make their first communion.
@John Kelly: ‘@The Risen: that’s what Google says’
LOL! You said a few hours ago that you’ve never heard of the age of reason, and now you’re an authority following a google search?
Oh and by the way, first hit on google….
https://www.google.ie/search?safe=active&ei=8pNdXLDGIqCR1fAP3J6K-AE&q=%22age+of+reason%22+milestone&oq=%22age+of+reason%22+milestone&gs_l=psy-ab.12..35i39l2.0.0..4791…0.0..0.1206.1206.7-1……0……gws-wiz.XA-Zfz2LUlI
You can’t even use google correctly.
@Dermo Adams: it’s a Catholic church construct.. look it up .
just came from Liffey valley – full of children dressed beautiful – spending thier confo money – one girl – stunning in a beautiful pink dress but the mouth on her- effing and blinding because whoever it was wouldn’t answer their ph….. the communions and confirmations are a total sham now, been heading that way for years
Your poor little boy, denying him Holy Communion just because of your personal hatred of the Church is BEYOND selfish!
@marydebbie: Hi Mary. Taking part in the ceremony meant our little boy got to make new friends, go bowling, have a picnic and play laser tag with them, plant a tree, have a really lovely, personal ceremony, a big family meal and a bumper after party with his classmates and friends. I don’t think he feels too ‘denied’!
@MyLittleBigDay: that’s what birthday party’s are for
@MyLittleBigDay: Some emphasis on Materialism you had on that ” big day”! For a ‘ Secular Humanist’..this is such nonsense. Its just exploiting some parents’ perceived guilt and vulnerabilities about a particular day. Total Marketing ploy for you, you know that. Can i ask if that is your own daughter posted on article?
Why would you use the catholic church definition when the ceremony or children taking part aren’t catholic?
(oh, and your other definition refers to the wrong ‘age of reason’)
Silly goose.
@The Risen: Why not everyone compromise and all just go to Mac Donald’s.
@Derek Poutch: great idea … give burger king and Kentucky a go as well …
Horses for courses, it wouldn’t be for us but nothing wrong with it.
I bought my son a bike, not as a replacement for communion because we have always been atheist but to make up for all those endless hours he had to spend sitting in silence at the back of someone else’s church when he should have been in school.
We need a secular school system that teaches about religion without evangelizing.
After that people can do what they want in their own time.
What a load of rubbish !
Use precise geolocation data. Actively scan device characteristics for identification. Store and/or access information on a device. Personalised advertising and content, advertising and content measurement, audience research and services development.
These cookies are necessary for the website to function and cannot be switched off in our systems. They are usually only set in response to actions made by you which amount to a request for services, such as setting your privacy preferences, logging in or filling in forms. You can set your browser to block or alert you about these cookies, but some parts of the site will not then work.
These cookies may be set through our site by our advertising partners. They may be used by those companies to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant adverts on other sites. They do not store directly personal information, but are based on uniquely identifying your browser and internet device. If you do not allow these cookies, you will experience less targeted advertising.
These cookies enable the website to provide enhanced functionality and personalisation. They may be set by us or by third party providers whose services we have added to our pages. If you do not allow these cookies then these services may not function properly.
These cookies allow us to count visits and traffic sources so we can measure and improve the performance of our site. They help us to know which pages are the most and least popular and see how visitors move around the site. All information these cookies collect is aggregated and therefore anonymous. If you do not allow these cookies we will not be able to monitor our performance.
Cookies, device or similar online identifiers (e.g. login-based identifiers, randomly assigned identifiers, network based identifiers) together with other information (e.g. browser type and information, language, screen size, supported technologies etc.) can be stored or read on your device to recognise it each time it connects to an app or to a website, for one or several of the purposes presented here.
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times an ad is presented to you).
Information about your activity on this service (such as forms you submit, content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (for example, information from your previous activity on this service and other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (that might include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present advertising that appears more relevant based on your possible interests by this and other entities.
Advertising presented to you on this service can be based on your advertising profiles, which can reflect your activity on this service or other websites or apps (like the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects.
Information about your activity on this service (for instance, forms you submit, non-advertising content you look at) can be stored and combined with other information about you (such as your previous activity on this service or other websites or apps) or similar users. This is then used to build or improve a profile about you (which might for example include possible interests and personal aspects). Your profile can be used (also later) to present content that appears more relevant based on your possible interests, such as by adapting the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find content that matches your interests.
Content presented to you on this service can be based on your content personalisation profiles, which can reflect your activity on this or other services (for instance, the forms you submit, content you look at), possible interests and personal aspects. This can for example be used to adapt the order in which content is shown to you, so that it is even easier for you to find (non-advertising) content that matches your interests.
Information regarding which advertising is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine how well an advert has worked for you or other users and whether the goals of the advertising were reached. For instance, whether you saw an ad, whether you clicked on it, whether it led you to buy a product or visit a website, etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of advertising campaigns.
Information regarding which content is presented to you and how you interact with it can be used to determine whether the (non-advertising) content e.g. reached its intended audience and matched your interests. For instance, whether you read an article, watch a video, listen to a podcast or look at a product description, how long you spent on this service and the web pages you visit etc. This is very helpful to understand the relevance of (non-advertising) content that is shown to you.
Reports can be generated based on the combination of data sets (like user profiles, statistics, market research, analytics data) regarding your interactions and those of other users with advertising or (non-advertising) content to identify common characteristics (for instance, to determine which target audiences are more receptive to an ad campaign or to certain contents).
Information about your activity on this service, such as your interaction with ads or content, can be very helpful to improve products and services and to build new products and services based on user interactions, the type of audience, etc. This specific purpose does not include the development or improvement of user profiles and identifiers.
Content presented to you on this service can be based on limited data, such as the website or app you are using, your non-precise location, your device type, or which content you are (or have been) interacting with (for example, to limit the number of times a video or an article is presented to you).
With your acceptance, your precise location (within a radius of less than 500 metres) may be used in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
With your acceptance, certain characteristics specific to your device might be requested and used to distinguish it from other devices (such as the installed fonts or plugins, the resolution of your screen) in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
Your data can be used to monitor for and prevent unusual and possibly fraudulent activity (for example, regarding advertising, ad clicks by bots), and ensure systems and processes work properly and securely. It can also be used to correct any problems you, the publisher or the advertiser may encounter in the delivery of content and ads and in your interaction with them.
Certain information (like an IP address or device capabilities) is used to ensure the technical compatibility of the content or advertising, and to facilitate the transmission of the content or ad to your device.
Information about your activity on this service may be matched and combined with other information relating to you and originating from various sources (for instance your activity on a separate online service, your use of a loyalty card in-store, or your answers to a survey), in support of the purposes explained in this notice.
In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
have your say