Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
ONE OF THE noteworthy subplots that arose during the Open last weekend was when Laura Davies made a bit of a faux-pas while commentating for Sky.
Davies provoked a great deal of ire from some Irish viewers when, reflecting on the possibility of Offaly man Shane Lowry winning the event, she stated, “It would be lovely wouldn’t it for the home fans, and for us as well because it’s nice to see a British winner of The Open.”
This was not the first time that a misunderstanding of this kind on the part of the British media has occurred. Last summer, when Pope Francis visited Ireland, a banner on Sky News declared “Pope in England”.
A few weeks prior to that, Paul and Gary O’Donovan were interviewed by the BBC after they won silver medals in the Lightweight Double Sculls at the European Championships. On the screen, beside their names, a little Union Jack appeared, denoting them as British athletes.
Errors of this nature happen a few times a year. When they do, the usual debate breaks out among us. Some people are offended that the English media could so lazily lump Ireland and Irish people in with the United Kingdom. They feel this demonstrates ignorance at best, or a lack of respect at worst.
Others feel such a reaction by Irish people is childish. They argue that Britain and Ireland have so much in common that to be riled by such a trivial matter is a sign of small-minded nationalism.
The truth is that these episodes are almost always founded on subconscious mistakes, rather than a desire to provoke or appropriate. Given that, surely the most suitable response is to simply ignore it and carry on?
Not quite.
No such misunderstandings on the part of the British media ever happen with
individuals from Switzerland or Senegal. The reason that Ireland and its people
occasionally find themselves caught in a British dragnet is that a large swath of public
opinion in the United Kingdom has never accepted that Ireland is an independent
nation.
Underpinning this mindset is the idea that geographic proximity and a shared culture
cement a natural bond between the two islands that overrides any technicalities of
sovereignty.
But there is nothing “natural” about this bond. It shouldn’t be forgotten that the end-goal
of the British colonisation project in Ireland was to bleach out a distinctive sense of
Irishness and erase any difference between the two islands.
Irish people do have a great deal in common with British people, but that wasn’t by accident or chance, nor did such a development occur without considerable misery and suffering.
Furthermore, there is no such thing as neutral geography. The term “British Isles” first appeared in English in the 1570s, when the English crown was seeking to subdue Ireland and Scotland. From the very beginning, the expression “British Isles” was a deliberate attempt to give geographic legitimacy to the political ambitions of an expansionist English state.
The outcome of these efforts is that some people in Britain are doctrinally incapable of seeing Ireland as a sovereign nation, outside of the United Kingdom.
This was best exemplified in an article by British journalist Melanie Phillips in 2017.
Phillips claimed that, in contrast to Britain, which is an “authentic” nation, Ireland only “has a tenuous claim to nationhood”.
Very well, one might say. Some people in the United Kingdom don’t fully grasp the reality of Irish sovereignty. Is that worth getting worked up over?
The answer is yes, and the reason is because this attitude could have very serious consequences for Ireland. In fact, it already has.
In the run-up to the Brexit referendum, the question of what would happen with the Irish border, if discussed at all, was dealt with glibly. Of course, Brexiteers promised simple solutions for everything, but it was quite easy for those who supported Brexit to imagine the border would be a non-issue precisely because they are generally the people who think Irish nationhood is something of a fiction anyway.
They are now the ones who react with indignant anger when the Irish government has the audacity to try to protect its own interests in Brexit negotiations at the expense of the United Kingdom.
This may only be the beginning of future problems. To put it bluntly, to view Ireland as a slightly wayward part of the United Kingdom normalises an ideological framework that would justify (in British eyes) any heavy-handed action by Britain toward Ireland.
This isn’t to claim that the Tory leadership is plotting reconquista in Ireland (although one would never know with Jacob Rees-Mogg). But our political world has changed unimaginably in the last ten years, and it would be foolish to think that cordial relations between the United Kingdom and Ireland will endure indefinitely.
So when our neighbours across the Irish Sea try to slip us in under us their British umbrella, don’t be shy about putting them right.
It can be done in a friendly way and with humour. But it is important they hear what we say, because such misunderstandings are not without real world implications.
Caoimhín De Barra is an assistant professor of history at Gonzaga University, Washington.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
It’s also important to call out easily avoided punctuation mistakes. This article is missing a ton of spaces between words.
@Keelan O’neill: the media getting on their high horse again. Maybe they should worry about important issues and give balanced articles for once
@Keelan O’neill: and forgiveness is also important, God love that lady,im sure she was under savage pressure….really ,hello,what a great guy,froma great county,lets just relax ,all is won,and forgive…..now if she fuxks up next year when he wins it again,the gloves are off….
@Gerry Campbell: have ye drink taken lad?
@Gerry Campbell: gosh! You made it worse…I had to stop reading the article because I was getting a headache from all the lumped up words and missing punctuations. A professor certainly can’t write that way. Someone at the Journal was too tired to do their job properly. It is Copy Paste EDIT Post.
@Whoswho: what’s unbalanced about it ? Are you a troll ?
@Keelan O’neill: and a capital N in your name……
I work in tourism with a lot of students from all over the world. Many of them, before they arrive, don’t see a distinction between the 2. I usually ask Austrian Students what part of Germany are they from. They react as you would expect and have a better understanding of us as a result. I tend to say the following “There’s nothing wrong with British Culture. It’s just not mine”.
@Cian Nolan: is it though? You speak the Brit’s language and if you’re like most Irish people you’ll follow their soccer clubs religiously, watch their soaps, read their newspapers etc.
I’m not remotely surprised foreigners get us mixed up so easily.
@Daragh Cassidy: Yup, nope, nope and nope to answer your questions. There are obvious similarities but there are distinctions also. You don’t just assume that Austrians and Germans are the same? You don’t just assume that French and Waloon are the same? I’ve never had an issue with tourists not realising there is a difference before there visit. If they still maintain that there’s no difference after their visit, that would annoy me.
@Cian Nolan:
You could spend your life correcting every person’s mistake, but why bother?
@Daragh Cassidy: Try telling that to a Kiwi when we think they are Aussie when we meet them .
@Daragh Cassidy: we speak the same language because our forebears were slapped with sticks every time they used an Irish word in school, and they had to speak English to be in with any kind of chance of getting a job
And Ed Sheerin is NOT Irish.
@Shelly Levine: I apologise
@Dow Dubrov: ed’s as Irish as he wants to be and English as he wants to be. And let the English call Lowry English if they want, couldn’t care less – the world knows where he’s from. Other people’s ignorance is not our problem.
@Renton Burke: Did you miss the bit about Brexit? Ireland was unimportant precisely because we are seen as a wayward child and Brexit would bring us back into closer union with the UK.
Sometimes I think it’s a mischievous Irish person behind the autocue at Sky, BBC and other English channels. Remember when Dublin won the All England Final a couple of years ago.
Remember too, how the British nearly always refuse to use Taoiseach or Táinste but PM or deputy PM. If they do use Taoiseach it’s always the Irish taoiseach, (small t).
Is there another Taoiseach in the world?
@Shelly Levine: Thank feic for that
@Renton Burke: of course Lowry the painter is English – he was born in Salford!
@Teresa Ryan: and that’s exactly it – it doesn’t matter in the slightest what English imperialists think. We’re irrationally and honestly protective of our psuedo colony in the North of our country, but beyond that England should be treated as small and insignificant as the Faroe Islands in global trends compared to Ireland in the EU.
@Shelly Levine: or talented
Apart from him not being English!! its embarrassing to be even British these days let alone English..
@peanutbutter nutter: what a ridiculous comment.
Just had a waiter in Barcelona ask me if I was English? Said no I’m Irish. Shrugged his shoulders as if to say whatever but got proper odd when I asked where in France he was from.
@GrahamMManning: the French let themselves down. Been a victim
@T Jay O’Mea: *Spanish
@T Jay O’Mea: we all come with baggage. Good/Bad
@T Jay O’Mea: irony obviously not a thing round ere.
@GrahamMManning: Haha, careful now Graham. One might take offense.
Best article ive seen here in years
I think Davies knew what she was doing. She’s well aware of the difference. She was a member of the GB and Ireland Curtis cup team and played against Ireland as an amateur a number of times. She was either having a bit of fun or stirring it up to raise her own profile. (In my humble opinion).
@Elma Phudd: Ah come on!
@CrabaRev: come on what? She’s also a ‘pool fan and into horse racing so she gets it all right.
@Elma Phudd: How do you explain Sky’s All England Final when Dublin won Sam.
Funnily enough, an RTE correspondent recently referred to Leo as the Irish Taoiseach. It did make him pause though and for a few seconds I thought I was watching the BBC.
I suppose it’s understandable as it was RTE. Where the BBC goes they follow.
@Teresa Ryan: well. One is a broadcaster and sporting pundit that worked for Max Clifford. The other is a professional sportsperson that absolutely knows all about Ireland, UK and Britain and all the nuances. Do you think the whole McIlroy Olympics saga passed her by. I stand over my comment. By the way, delighted to see McIlroy leading in Memphis after the amount of shite written about him this week on this forum.
@Elma Phudd: got a chip on both shoulders .
@bmul: how does me thinking that Davies might have known what she was saying equate to me having a chip on my shoulder? Or two?
@Elma Phudd: cause does it really matter his Irish we all no it she made a mistake so what
@bmul: okay, your completely incoherent response has me. I’m currently removing both chips and sending them on the express to Cork where there are still a small number of unfortunates with chipless shoulders.
@Elma Phudd: No clue as to the point your attempting to raise re McIlroy.
Britain should be thankful to be in the Irish Archipelago. Also I was once asked what tube line Ireland was on so patience is required with some!
@Gert McNulty: : ‘What is Ireland?’ was a response to the question where are you from?, while travelling down under. Depths of tasmania.
@Hardly Normal: One I got in Tenessee: “Is it a long drive to Ireland?”
@Diarmuid Hunt: In a Tennessee fire Station I told the fire fighters that I was from Dublin.
“Dublin,Texas ?”
@geraldo: in Chicago a few years ago told somebody I was from Dublin to which they replied “I’ve a friend in Galway you might know her”
It’s only annoying if you allow it to annoy you. Irish people assume anyone from Eastern Europe is Polish and confuse Canadians and Americans constantly.
@Cian Griffin: It’s one thing having Johnny Public easily confuse nationalities. However, is it too much to ask that news sources are correctly labelling people with their flags and demonyms?
@Cian Griffin: Soeak for yourself.
I’m well aware of different nationalities.
@Cian Griffin: Speak for yourself most of us are well aware of different nationalities.
@Cian Griffin: That’s confusion about accents and languages. It does not mean that Irish people think that Canada and USA are the same country or all of Eastern Europe is Poland.
@Cian Griffin: Canadians are Americans along with everyone else on the American continent, all of it, north and south
Brexit has shown us how troubled and ignorant these people are. Don’t waste your energy trying to educate them, the hard lessons of their position in the world will be faced by them soon thanks to Boris.
@Rochelle: no, the reaction by people like you to Brexit illustrates a whole new level of ignorance.
What twaddle! Many British just assume that people with familiar sounding names (English, Scottish, Irish or Welsh) are British – as they often are given centuries of intermarriage between the four nations of these islands. Most British people have never given a thought as to the constitutional status of Ireland, one way or the other.
As a French resident, the initial assumption that every english-speaking person is English is the norm here. It isn’t a big deal for me, but I do tend to gently disabuse them and remind them that Ireland is an independent republic within the EU.
@Peter O’Muiri: Not knowing about the constitutional status of Ireland means that they don’t know where the UK begins and ends. I sometimes wonder at the state of the UK education system, when it seems that a huge number of people don’t know where the borders of their own country are.
Jesus, get over ourselves. We claim bloody Barack Obama as Irish and a whole heap of people with extremely tenuous links.
@Darius Guppy: As cringeworthy as that often is, that’s not quite the same as claiming that they are Irish.
@Darius Guppy: we have never claimed barack obama as irish… Barack obama said he has irish get your facts right
@Karl Charlie: never claimed Obama
@Darius Guppy: who said Obama is Irish ? I’ve heard Obama claim Irish roots but never heard anyone say he’s Irish. Will you send the link please
Great article – captures what is happening at the moment. Very creeped out by some of those awful Brexiteers and their off the cuff statements that no need for a border – implication is that Ireland is part of Britain. On a side note I no longer use the terms United Kingdom or Great Britain as both terms seem totally inappropriate at the moment. God help our politicians and civil servants having to deal with that current gang of miscreants in power in London.
Funny how none of them said “Eoin Morgan the Irish captain of the English world cricket champions “
One reporter said it once ffs get over it
@bmul: no it’s been more than once. It’s happened plenty of times hence the article. You obviously didn’t grasp that
Sky & the BBC should employ Geographical minded people. Please.
The mainstream media never stops talking about Britain because it’s a distraction from the running this country into the ground .
Embarrassing article
@Verandah: Couldn’t agree more. It basically is promoting the Irish “victim mentality” and showing that the author has a bit of an inferiority complex .
If someone from the UK thinks someone from Ireland is British, big deal. It’s their mistake, It doesn’t make the Irish person British. Most Americans think Ireland is part of the UK.
I notice Shane Lowery gave Laura Davis a kiss and a handshake when he came to meet the Sky Sports team after collecting the trophy. He obviously wasn’t too worried. I am sure he would be delighted to hear some Irish bloke, that nobody has heard of, from a US university thinks its a “noteworthy subplot” to his Open victory
Petty small minded people really annoy me.
@CrabaRev: The whole article went way over your head.
@Teresa Ryan: No it didn’t. But thanks for the concern. It’s another one of these “us poor Irish victims” and all the “Brits did to us” article. There now “stealing our sport people.” Petty and small minded victim mentality stuff
@CrabaRev: No victim mentality whatsoever but 100 years of independence and the British refuse to accept said independent.
The mentality that you should he questioning is the British and their refusal to let Ireiand go.
Our independence must still be very traumatic for them still
@Verandah: Not embarrassing at all, some very valid points
@Teresa Ryan: why? @CrabaRev is quite right. Sometimes Canadians are mistaken for Americans. They don’t cry over it. The British don’t see us as foreign. The writer of this tiresome article doesn’t get that it’s a back handed compliment.
@Valthebear: an Irish person being classed as British is a compliment? It’s an insult to any right thinking Irish person
Shane Lowry was born in mullingar hospital & his all life in Offaly
Priti Patel proves not only how accurate the article is but also demonstrates that non-indigenous cultures can assimilate in England by hating the Paddies too
Living in Brittany one is always assumed to be English or Roast Beefs until proven otherwise.
Was returning to the car the other day with my partner and his Dad ( both Danish) and the elderly gentleman who was leaning up against his car next to ours, saw us approach and said « le rôti de bœuf arrive! ». I challenge him advising that my friends were Danish and I was Irish. His response was « désolé mon chien était confus » Sorry my dog was confused!!
Renaming the Republic of Ireland would sort it out.
@iohanx: where is that? If you mean the football team, because according to our Constitution, I live in Ireland or Éire if you prefer! The only thing called the “Republic of Ireland” on this island is our football team! Get it right! Ffs!
@iohanx: look at your passport, there is no country called the Republic of Ireland.
Who won was it Shane or some little chap called Rory I’m afraid Shane knows his roots Green White & Orange well done a proud Irish man
If the opposite was done and an English athlete was heralded following a world championship as an Irish Victor then you would have it in the neck from not just the brits but the unionists up yonder as well. Its not the first time for it to happen on sky so they should be making sure the dopes that work for them know what they’re talking about. They are already helping America to think GAA is a British thing because the dopes at RTÉ missing yet another boat.
Oh and get yer space bar fixed, not good.
I wonder if we claim Boris Johnson as being Irish would Brexit go away?
@Pat Farrelly: I can’t see why? Boris Johnson is about as British as garlic sauce! He’s a mongrel of German/Turkish and god knows what ever descent.
@Pat Farrelly:
No! But Brexit Project will be weakened if the LibDems can win Aug 1st By-Election in Breton Radnorshire, and a possible later one (hopefully before 30 Sep 2019) in Sheffield Hallam, if Jared O’ Mara, MP carries out his plan to resign on health reasons.
It seems that a majority of Great British Electorate is finally waking up to the fact that they are witnessing a hard right coup of their beloved country, which only means slave-like economic conditions in the long-run for the bottom 50% in society.
@Rory J Leonard: I hope you’re right, I really do, because right now it’s looking very bleak for them and us.
Zee Germans usually have exceptional knowledge of our geographical/political situation, French and Brits haven’t a clue, the rest of Europe would have trouble pointing out Ireland on a map. Also Shane Lowry is from Offaly, those biffos are lucky we let them tag along with the rest of us normal Irish folk
Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam. If we genuinely considered ourselves Irish rather than West British I would have been annoyed at British calling successful Irish as British. It reminds me of two of my friends attending Italia 90 World Cup. When Germans, French and Tunisians asked them how they could not describe themselves as British seeing as they spoke English they absentee themselves a while. Then they returned and performed the Our Father as Gaeilge ad a duet conversation to prove they were Irish. The other nationalities had asked: Where is your language if you claim to be Irish?
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: did your friends know nothing about Irish history and tell them it was forced upon them and Irish people face prosecution, persecution and even death if they were caught speaking Irish , practising their religion or educating themselves?
Lowry speaks English as his first language and lives in the British Isles so if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is probably a duck..
@Tim McCormack29: where in Britain does he live? I thought he still lived in Offaly
@Tim McCormack29: Brooks Koepka speaks english and lives in a former British colony so if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is obviously not a duck, unless of course you live in an independent nation that is proximate to a bigger one, then reality needs to be mitigated by duck analogies. Seems reasonable.
Ah ignore it. Getting worked up but gives people a chance to call you sensitive.
When exactly did Ireland stop being “British” anyway? We were definitely still British up to 1931 with the statute of Westminster act.
One could probably argue we were British up to the constitution and a small number would say it was only when we dropped out of the commonwealth that we stopped being considered “British”. We never had a single point in time when it stopped. Maybe this is too complex for some of them?
It is far more recent but as outsiders would we be shocked if a Czech person called a Slovakian person a Czechoslovakian?
A bit of aloofness and pity that the British don’t seem to be aware of basic political geography relating to their own country would be my preferred response.
Chip on your shoulder. Get over yourself. Stop being so triggered. Those seem to be counter arguments. But the British label is not applicable to Irish citizens. To point it out seems honest, and a service to those misusing the term.
In fairness to those who do misuse the term they have almost certainly seen Terry Wogan, Graham Norton, every Irish comedian and media figure that appears on British television (with the notable exception of Dara Ó Briain) reinforcing their opinions. In Ireland we also have many personalities who will not point that out, probably because to work in Britain will require a certain amount of creative dissembling, which is perfectly understandable, why sabotage ones career,ones families wellbeing, on the alter of Irish sovereignty?
But the truth is the truth. Irishness being equated with Britishness is quite the modern phenomenon. At look at Punch cartoons in the 19th century, the phrenological debate as to how such a backward race survived into the modern time and the reaction to mass Irish immigration to Britain, show that Irishness has rarely equated with Britishness. It has, in history, mostly been used to bolster the feeling of superiorty of Britishness.
It seems to me that recent Irish as British is related. To accept that Ireland is an independent entity is to have complex questions as to why. What happened. Would acknowledging the past debase certain assumptions British people may hold on the notions of Britishness they hold dear. Which is understandable, but again the truth is the truth, in this day and age it matters quite a bit. Mocking those who speak it is a truly modern phenomenon, much like the British label on Ireland itself
Leabharamíd ás Béarla mar nil a thíos ag na Seasanacha cad atá le rá again, nuair a leabharamíd as Gaeilge.
I’m Gloria Evans From USA, I have been suffering from (HERPES) disease for the past 13 months and had constant pain, especially in my knees. During the first month , I had faith in God that I would be healed someday.This disease started to circulate all over my body and I have been taking treatment from my doctor, a few weeks ago I came on search on the internet if I could get any information concerning the prevention of this disease, on my search I saw a testimony of someone who has been healed from (Hepatitis B and Cancer) by this Man DR AFRID and she also gave the email address of this man and advise we should contact him for any sickness that he would be of help, so I wrote to DR AFRID telling him about my (HERPES Virus) he told me not to worry that I was going to be cured!! hmm i never believed it,, well after all the procedures and remedy given to me by this man few weeks later I started experiencing changes all over me as the DR assured me that I have cured, after 2 weeks i went to my doctor to confirmed if I have been finally healed behold it was TRUE, So friends my advice is if you have such sickness or any other like HSV1,2, HPV1,2,3, CANER HIV, COLE SORES, TOOTH, ETC you can email DR AFRID on drafridherbalhome@gmail.com sir I am indeed grateful for the help I will forever recommend you to my friends with your lovely Email Address or you can also phone/Whats App him on this number +2349057260738.visit his website https//drafridherbalhome.webs.com
have your say