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A picture from a mother and baby home is projected onto Sean Ross Abbey in Tipperary as part of the Herstory Light Show to mark St Brigid's Day in February. Niall Carson/PA Wire/PA Images

'Pay us and acknowledge what happened': Mother and baby home survivors want compensation and a remembrance day

Some survivors have also called on the government to take legal action against the religious orders who ran the institutions if they refuse to pay financial compensation.

SOME SURVIVORS OF mother and baby homes and county homes want financial compensation, access to medical care, counselling and housing supports as part of a redress scheme that will be drawn up by the government.

Others want a national day of remembrance to be established, as well as memorials at the sites of former institutions and a national archive where their personal stories can be accessed for educational and research purposes (once consent is given by individuals).

Some survivors have also called on the government to take legal action against the religious orders who ran the institutions if they refuse to pay financial compensation.

A number of religious orders have apologised for their role in running the institutions in question. The government has asked them to contribute to the redress fund.

“Engagement with religious orders is ongoing in relation to how they can contribute,” a spokesperson for the Department of Children told The Journal.

Many attendees at the meetings also stressed that adopted people need to get access to their birth certs and medical records as a matter of urgency.

In one of the meetings, it was suggested that a portion of the National Lottery’s fund typically reserved for charities be used to pay part of the financial compensation “to save the taxpayer”. Some attendees objected to this suggestion.

Redress means different things to different people, and a wide range of views have been expressed in the submissions.

In recent weeks, some 169 people attended 18 online meetings as part of the consultation process. More than 100 of these people were survivors, with the rest of the attendees identifying as survivors’ relatives or representatives.

A number of extra meetings were scheduled “to meet demand”, the Department of Children said. Over 250 written submissions were also received before the deadline last Wednesday.

The government hired OAK Consulting to oversee the consultation process at a cost of €20,000.

OAK facilitated the online meetings and will submit a report, which will include the suggestions made at the meetings and via the written submissions, to the department later this month.

There was controversy in March when The Journal revealed a data breach involving 18 people who attended two of the meetings. The department apologised at the time and said the measures were put in place to prevent the issue from recurring.

The department notified the Data Protection Commissioner (DPC) about the breach. A spokesperson for the DPC said: “We’ve received a breach notification from the Department of Children in relation to this and we are continuing to engage with them on the matter.”

What survivors want

The Journal has spoken to a number of people who attended the online meetings.

In general, there was a consensus that all survivors should receive some form of redress, regardless of how long they spent in an institution.

The consultation process was set up following the publication of the final report by the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes in January.

The report noted: “Any decision on financial redress is a matter for government. The Commission recognises that it is not possible to provide financial redress for all the wrongs that occurred in the past (or, indeed, that are currently occurring) …

Financial redress for past wrongs involves the present generation paying for the wrongs of earlier generations and it could be argued that this is unfair. However, while recognising that all wrongs cannot be put right and that some groups have received financial redress, the Commission considers that the State does have an obligation not to discriminate between people in similar situations.

The report stated that, because of the introduction of the Unmarried Mother’s Allowance in 1973 changed that, “women who entered mother and baby homes after 1973 do not have a case for financial redress”.

The Commission’s report also stated: “Women who spent lengthy periods (for example, in excess of six months) in mother and baby homes before 1974 should also be considered for redress along the lines of the Magdalene basic payment related to time spent. Six months has been selected as the cut-off date because it is the average length of time that women spent in mother and baby homes in other countries.”

Restricting financial redress to those who entered institutions before 1974 and spent more than six months there has been criticised by a number of survivors as unfair.

Many people believe that all survivors should receive some form of redress, regardless of  when they entered an institution and the length of time they spent there.

The report’s recommendations are not binding so the government can choose to ignore some or all of them if they see fit.

‘Anyone who stepped foot inside the door deserves redress’

A number of people who spoke to The Journal said preparing for the meetings, and taking part, was very stressful. Others described the process as difficult but cathartic, noting that speaking to other survivors was particularly helpful.

Linda*, one of the women who attended an online meeting, said “anyone who stepped foot within the door” of an institution should be compensated.

She said people who attended her meeting were “very strongly” against the Commission’s recommendation that people must have spent more than six months in an institution in order to get redress or a medical card.

Mary*, a survivor who attended a different meeting, said: “There should be no six-month rule, or a rule that you had to enter before 1973, to get a flat rate.

“I think we should get the same, more or less, as what the Magdalene Laundry survivors got, and maybe more depending on how long you spent [in the institution] and what happened to you while there.”

A number of the people we spoke to said survivors, both those living in Ireland and abroad, should get access to private healthcare paid for by the State.

Many survivors have health issues, including some long-term effects of being placed in vaccine trials without their consent in the past, and say access to private healthcare would improve their quality of life.

“A medical card is going to exclude survivors living in different countries. What the government needs to do now is put their hands in their pockets and actually pay out for survivors to have private healthcare,” Linda said.

National remembrance day

Linda said many survivors want a national remembrance day to be established to remember all the people who spent time in mother and baby homes and similar institutions.

“There needs to be a day once a year, like the day to remember Holocaust survivors, where everyone can come together and remember their experiences and heal,” she said.

Linda added that the meeting she attended was cathartic for some people. She said attendees were grateful to be able to speak to “other people who have been through the same thing” because sometimes they feel “like a burden” to their families who may not fully “understand” what happened.

“The meeting was filled with such sadness but it was good in another way, there was an energy between us all, we understood each other,” Linda told us.

Mary, whose child was taken from her against her will after she gave birth in the 1960s, is among those calling for memorials to be erected at sites around the country “where babies died and women suffered”.

“I also want a national museum dedicated to our experiences so people remember what happened to us,” she said.

Mary said compensation needs to be paid urgently given the age of many survivors.

She said that if religious orders refuse to pay compensation, or delay the process, the State should pay survivors and then take legal action against the orders to recoup some of the costs.

“I don’t want any further delays. I believe the government should pay up. The government should pay us up now and be done with it, but in turn they should sue the Catholic Church for all that has been done in this country.

“Follow up with the Catholic Church but, in the meantime, we should be paid because if [the State] hadn’t colluded with the Catholic Church and paid the institutions it couldn’t have happened, they wouldn’t have kept us for nothing.”

‘Stressed up to my eyeballs’

Mary said she found the days leading up to the online meeting “very stressful”.

“I was stressed out for a few days beforehand, it was really very stressful. I know when I’m grinding my teeth at night I’m worried.

“I was a bit overwhelmed with it all, I was stressed up to my eyeballs for a few days because of it.”

Mary said she’s worried about how the suggestions she and others gave at the meetings will be presented to the government.

“I have grave reservations about the way they’re going to relay this to the government, I think they might misinterpret what we say. We won’t get to see report before it’s sent to the department.

“I’m not sure if it’s going to be a successful thing, I’m really very sceptical about it,” Mary said.

‘Complete abandonment’ 

Sharon*, who was born in a mother and baby home before being adopted, also raised concerns about how survivors’ suggestions will be presented to the government.

“We all have this absolute feeling of complete abandonment by the State by the Church,” she said.

Sharon said survivors are used to dealing with “spin doctors” and don’t want to be “fobbed off”. She said the people eligible for redress should not be “handpicked”.

“Are you going to handpick homes, just the way you handpicked cases to include in the final report?”

Sharon said that everyone who attended her meeting agreed that anyone who spent time in an institution should receive a flat rate of compensation, “whether you were a baby or a mother”.

She said putting a six-month time limit on it could “create division” among survivors.

“The money needs to come now, or part of it. The government should start paying out and it’s up to the government to chase the Church. If the Church needs to be taken to court, the government should do this, not survivors,” she said.

We want to see the government making immediate interim payments, not making us wait five to 10 years.

Sharon also stressed that adopted people need to get access to their birth certs and medical records as a matter of urgency.

She said the government should also help survivors who are struggling to find permanent accommodation or buy a home.

“I want a home that will not be taken away from me so, for the first time in my life, I can sit still longer than 20 seconds and not be afraid that somebody is going to pull the chair from underneath me.

“That’s what our life has been like, all of our life. There is a sadness and a hurt that goes so deep it will never, ever, ever go away. But what will make it better is an acknowledgement that what happened to us was wrong.”

When asked about survivors’ suggestions and concerns, a spokesperson for the Department of Children said: “OAK is mandated to provide a report which will reflect the views and needs of survivors as authentically and honestly as possible.

“The Department has been closely involved in designing and managing the Consultation Process with OAK, who have been tasked with gathering views on what should be included in the Restorative Recognition Scheme.

“OAK will analyse the input they have received on what should be included in the Scheme, via submissions and the online consultation meetings, and prepare a report for the Interdepartmental Group (IDG) which was established to develop proposals for Government consideration. In due course, the report prepared by OAK will be published alongside the report of the IDG.”

The spokesperson said the department “fully appreciates and understands the urgency surrounding the establishment of a Restorative Recognition Scheme”.

When asked when the redress scheme will be run and running, the spokesperson said: “As the work of the IDG is currently ongoing, the specific details of the Restorative Recognition Scheme have not yet been decided.

“When this work is complete and Government has decided what format the Scheme should take, every effort will be made to advance its establishment as quickly as possible.”

Previous redress schemes

The redress scheme for survivors of abuse in industrial schools set up under the Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002 has cost over €1.25 billion – a multiple of the original estimate of €250 million – covering the compensation paid out, legal costs of applicants and administration costs.

More than 16,600 applications to the redress scheme were accepted, with 15,600 awards offered to survivors or their families.

Over €360 million has been paid by 18 congregations towards the 2002 redress scheme, but the vast majority of the money has been paid by the State.

Just over €32 million has been paid, to date, to more than 800 women who spent time in Magdalene Laundries under that particular redress scheme.

*Names have been changed to keep people anonymous

Information on the support services available for mother and baby homes survivors can be read here.

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41 Comments
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    Mute John Hayes
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    Apr 4th 2021, 12:12 AM

    I didn’t need to read that I read the headline….. pay up.

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    Mute Paul Gorry
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    Apr 4th 2021, 12:31 AM

    @John Hayes: Here’s me after reading the whole article agreeing with you John..

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    Mute John Hayes
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    Apr 4th 2021, 12:52 AM

    @Paul Gorry: sorry Paul I never jump in but unfortunately this is one of those times. These people have suffered enough.

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    Mute Paul Gorry
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    Apr 4th 2021, 12:54 AM

    @John Hayes: absolutely agree with you John.

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    Mute Johannes Baader
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    Apr 4th 2021, 7:31 AM

    @John Hayes: Agree 100%

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    Mute Neil Neart
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    Apr 4th 2021, 8:02 AM

    @John Hayes: Show me the MONEY!

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    Mute lorcmulv
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    Apr 4th 2021, 1:23 AM

    Whilst everyone can agree that the survivors should be looked after mentally and financially I do not believe that it should be paid for by the state. It was not the state that sent them into these institutions and it was not the state that ran them. The church got away with paying all of the money into the redress funds for what they did to children and so now must be held solely liable for any financial cost these survivors.

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    Mute Johannes Baader
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    Apr 4th 2021, 7:35 AM

    @lorcmulv: Even here in Germany it is well known that the church and the Irish Government were in this together. The state financed it while the church executed it. And yes…. lets not forget the ordinary people. They facilitated it with their shame

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    Mute Bleurgh
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    Apr 4th 2021, 8:38 AM

    @lorcmulv: I agree, additionally it was men who got them pregnant and deserted them. They are liable, as are their own families who put them in their. The church is responsible for the bad treatment but not the state

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    Mute Bleurgh
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    Apr 4th 2021, 8:38 AM

    @lorcmulv: I agree, additionally it was men who got them pregnant and deserted them. They are liable, as are their own families who put them in their. The church is responsible for the bad treatment but not the state government

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    Mute Tom's
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    Apr 4th 2021, 9:03 AM

    @lorcmulv:The state knew what was going on and did not do anything about it.So church and state to blame.

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    Mute ÓDuibhír Abú
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    Apr 4th 2021, 9:51 AM

    @Johannes Baader: They would not have; ‘Shame’ but because of the Catholic Church , Church made the community ashamed of having a Girl among them having a Baby, outside wedlock. The Catholic Church ruled through fear, and shame, and naming people from the altar, after this; a person so shamed would loose their job, and not get work anymore in that community of Fear. The founder of Christianity Jesus was merciful and loving, he knew what it was like to be marginalized he was rejected, his mother Mary Conceived Jesus outside Wedlock, she would have experienced Fear in that situation until Joseph Married her.
    Growing up in such a Community the Mother would have to depend on the charity of those people influenced by the Catholic Church. I am so glad they no longer have that control of minds.

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    Mute Rostyballs78
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    Apr 4th 2021, 12:53 PM

    @lorcmulv: whilst I see your point and agree on some level, personally I would struggle to separate or disentangle church from state with particular reference to the 1940’s through to the 1980’s. In recent decades the stranglehold of the church on Irish people has dissipated significantly, but for me there is no way that a nation of people so heavily cowed by the power of the Catholic God almighty, so mired and immersed in the fear and shame that breaking Gods holy rule brought, could be governed independent of Church involvement or influence

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    Mute lorcmulv
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    Apr 4th 2021, 1:19 PM

    @Tom’s: and it was the men that got them pregnant in first place so why not sue sue the descendants of these men – that is the same as making the current taxpayer pay for what happened over 50 years ago.

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    Mute merely ed
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    Apr 4th 2021, 12:46 AM

    It’s time the catholic church sold off their enormous property portfolio and paid up. Happy Easter boys!

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    Mute Paul Gorry
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    Apr 4th 2021, 12:52 AM

    @merely ed: we live in hope merely.

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    Mute David Corrigan
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    Apr 4th 2021, 7:15 AM
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    Mute Tarraing Mo Liathróidí
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    Apr 4th 2021, 8:11 AM

    @David Corrigan: I find it funny that they can come out and have the poor mouth, when their boss in room literally sits on a gold throne, with more security to protect him than Biden does as US president, I mean they literally have their own city and complain cos covid has cut back on the collection plate….id say if they even sold off a third of their assets in Ireland they could pay victims, be sorted during covid and still have money left over for a new car

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    Mute Neil Neart
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    Apr 4th 2021, 8:18 AM

    @merely ed: Dr Michael Woods of Fianna Fail signed a legal agreement with the Catholic Church to limit its liability and commit Irish taxpayers to pay all the bills. If any other Gov did a deal like that to cover up the abuse of innocents there would be public outcry, police investigations and jail for the corrupt. Irish people prefer to not know.

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    Mute ÓDuibhír Abú
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    Apr 4th 2021, 9:54 AM

    @David Corrigan: Pope asking for the Cardinals to take a pay cut from their Salary Of; € 5,000 a month.

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    Mute TheDublinGirly
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    Apr 4th 2021, 8:24 AM

    What about them asking their own families who put them there – for compensation? The families and the church were in cahoots.

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    Mute Bleurgh
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    Apr 4th 2021, 8:39 AM

    What about the men who got them pregnant and abandoned these women and their children. They are liable, not the state.

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    Mute akaalison
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    Apr 4th 2021, 8:55 PM

    @Bleurgh: I am adopted. The church and the state contributed to my community’s mistreatment. The fact that government depts like the dept of foreign affairs organised so many passports for children to be trafficked, that it was reported on in national, US and German newspapers, is evidence alone that the State was directly involved.
    Also the institution I was in was infamous as being a place where vaccine trials, drug trials and food/formula trials were conducted on us unaccompanied infants, mostly by British pharmaceutical companies and Irish universities. Ultimately whose responsibility was this? As I and other children were ‘wards of the State’, then the Irish State was responsible at the time and remains responsible still for this illegal and unethical experimentation and negligence.

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    Mute lorcmulv
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    Apr 5th 2021, 10:08 PM

    @akaalison: whilst every compassion can be afforded to you as a survivor the brass tacks are that the majority of mothers got pregnant and the fathers wanted no more to do with the mothers of their children and the mothers own family forced them into these institutions out of some sense of shame fuelled by the church. The church ran the institutions and whilst the state had to be involved in some sort of collision – that was the state of government then and to maintain that the current taxpayer is solely financially liable is not fair or reasonable. A way should be found to make the families that put these women and children into these homes pay, as well as the fathers along with the church who ran the homes pay the majority of any financial costs.

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    Mute akaalison
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    Apr 6th 2021, 1:35 AM

    @lorcmulv: so you can afford me compassion, but not redress!?!
    And no one said “that the current taxpayer is solely financially liable”. The article doesn’t even hint at that.
    Anyone responsible including the State, the religious orders, the State inspectors, the Adoption Board, the adoption agencies, the social workers, the private nursing homes, the county councils, the nuns, priests, bishops & archbishops, those who discarded babies & mothers bodies, the medical schools who used bodies as cadavers, the TD’s, the pharmaceutical companies, the universities, the hospitals, the deceptive medics (DeValera), the staff of institutions, the aircraft carriers who trafficked the ‘Banished Babies’.
    ALL who were responsible &/or were complicit by doing nothing should be held accountable
    …finally!

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    Mute Tarraing Mo Liathróidí
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    Apr 4th 2021, 7:59 AM

    The state should pay some compensation and fully acknowledge the disgraceful atrocities that occurred at the mother and baby homes, but the pressure should be put on religious orders to pay up for not just this but other disgraceful acts they have been found to have been involved in…..and if they don’t do it, either start taking them and use the money to pay the compensation via the state or send in CAB and seize assets to sell off

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    Mute Dean
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    Apr 4th 2021, 9:45 AM

    FG/FF allowed this infanticide and slave labour to happen, for around 80 years.

    So while the state oversaw this, it is the Church wealth that should be repossessed to compensate as they had a stranglehold on “Catholic Ireland” with their ‘purity’ views from a ‘holy’ book filled with atrocities.

    Trials, repossessions and disband them.

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    Mute Patrick Abbott
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    Apr 4th 2021, 12:09 PM

    Shame on the Roman Catholic Church & Government of the day. The Catholic Church can’t step any lower in the eyes of many people. The Catholic Church is already selling off property in secret and moving the funds.

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    Mute Susan Keane
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    Apr 4th 2021, 10:57 AM

    Hi, can someone answer this for me please. At the time of the adoptions, were the actions (save for those cases where birth certs were altered) of the authorities/facilitators legal?

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    Mute akaalison
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    Apr 4th 2021, 9:13 PM

    @Susan Keane: we don’t know. I’m adopted and am actively prevented knowing most of my info. For example, did my birth mother give informed consent to my adoption? Was I taken from my birth mother before the waiting period for full consent had elapsed? Was my birth mother informed of her entitlement to withdraw her initial consent? Was I forcibly taken or without her choice? Was I used as a guinea pig, unlawfully and unethically in vaccine trials, drug trials and food/formula trials while I was in an institution as ‘a ward of the State’?
    Who was charged with my “care” and were they adults. Were they qualified to care for vulnerable children? Was I neglected, abused or did I receive medical attention for an incidents and/or accidents?
    And there are MANY, MANY, more questions.

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    Mute Tom's
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    Apr 5th 2021, 1:24 AM

    @akaalison: I also was adopted and always wonder about the same questions.And I know I was with my adopted family within around six weeks of my birth when legally you couldn’t adopt a child until the child was at least six months old.

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    Mute ImYourNumber1Fan
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    Apr 6th 2021, 12:10 PM

    As an adoptee who was in St Patrick’s home, I am deeply, deeply offended by the headline on this article.

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    Mute Colette Kearns
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    Apr 5th 2021, 1:42 AM

    What a ro**n headline trying to make survivors look like money grabbers!

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    Mute Ann Moles
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    Apr 5th 2021, 7:34 PM

    The church was responsible for sending women who had their children taken from them, if they weren’t adopted they were placed in orphanages. They didn’t give their consent to have their children used as guinea pigs, no consent was sought from their parents it was illegal, A lot of children were made wards of court by the state, If a child lost a parent the state would take the child/children away from their surviving parent usually their fathers, so the state was responsible for their welfare. The state should compensate them

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    Mute Matty J Molloy
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    Apr 8th 2021, 12:39 PM

    ask the state to pay, what? ask your real families to pay, they gave u away

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