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Updated at 2pm
THE SEANAD GALLERY is expected to be packed for a debate on lowering the voting age to 16, while Fianna Fáil are being accused of doing a u-turn on the bill through supporting the government’s amendment to freeze the bill for nine-months.
The current voting age is 18.
Legislation is being proposed by Sinn Féin Senator Fintan Warfield and if passed through both houses of the Oireachtas, would reduce the voting age at local government and European Parliament elections.
Independent Senator Lynn Ruane, who is seconding the motion, said that she’d been inundated with requests from schools and students to attend the debate, and would ensure that as many people as possible would be seated.
She said that it was important to lower the voting age so that young people would have a say in how politics affects them, so that students could engage with politics, and – in the case of the European Parliament elections – broaden their horizons.
“Eighteen is such an arbitrary number,” Ruane told TheJournal.ie. When it was suggested that 18 was chosen as it’s considered the age children become adults, Ruane said that other rules told a different story.
The age where you can give sexual consent is 17, while a 16-year-old can give consent to medical treatment. “There’s very little difference in maturity levels between 16 and 18,” Ruane says.
The National Youth Council of Ireland say that the same arguments being used on why women shouldn’t vote are now being used against young people.
The view that 16- and 17-year-olds are not sufficiently informed, have no interest in voting or will be easily manipulated are as daft now as when they were when made in the early-20th century against giving the vote to women.
“This legislation not only will extend the franchise to 126,000 young people but will renew and refresh our democracy as previous reforms have done.”.
(More information on minimum age requirements here.)
She added:
I ran a survey in five DEIS schools on this subject of lowering the voting age. And the students showed a real interest in topics like Trump, like Repeal the Eighth, like the homeless crisis. One guy even spoke about the rise of right-wing politics.
But the interesting thing was that despite all this interest, students didn’t think they had the knowledge to vote: the confidence isn’t there.
Presidential age
That’s not all too surprising.
In 2015 the public voted to reject lowering the minimum age to run as a presidential candidate from 35 to 21 – with 1,412,602 votes against the change.
When asked whether this indicates the public’s lack of interest in involving young people in politics, Ruane said that there were a number of factors at play that caused the public to reject lowering the presidential age.
There was a negative narrative around the presidential referendum. Not enough time or effort went into discussing the issue, and there were fears around having a person lacking experience as the head of the country.
This time people have nothing to fear, she says – this time it’s about making politics and democracy available to more people.
The National Youth Council of Ireland welcomed the bill. Their deputy director James Doorley said: “NYCI welcomes and supports the Voting at 16 Bill. We have been campaigning for voting rights to be granted to 16 and 17-year-olds since we launched our ‘New Age in Voting’ campaign in 2009, and today’s Bill is a positive step in the right direction.
The Bill, if passed would allow up to 126,000 young people aged 16 and 17 to vote in the 2019 Local and European Elections.
The Labour party said it would be “delighted to support this legislation” as its manifesto includes a commitment to allow 16-year-olds to vote in local and European elections.
Fine Gael, however are proposing that conclusion of second stage of this Bill be deferred to December this year.
“This would allow for further consideration to be given to the issue of reducing the voting age to 16. Support of this Bill would be premature at the present time,” a party spokesperson said.
For example, it would create a divide between those who can vote at local and European elections and those eligible to vote at local, general and presidential elections. There is also ambiguity around the constitutionality of amending the voting age.
A Fianna Fáil spokesperson said:
“Fianna Fáil believes in the principle of votes at 16, and included a commitment in our 2016 General Election manifesto to reduce the voting age from 18 to 16 for the 2019 Local Elections on a trial basis.
We welcome the Sinn Féin bill in the Seanad. In order to investigate the implications of such a change, we will support the government’s amendment to freeze the bill for nine months.
Sinn Féin Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh said that the Fianna Fáil position amounted to a u-turn:
“Before the General Election Fianna Fáil pledged to reduce the voting age from 18 to 16 for the 2019 Local Elections on a trial basis, however we are being told that they now intend to support a government amendment to our bill which will kick to touch on this commitment.
This all points to the fact that you cannot trust Fianna Fáil to deliver on promises, or bring in real reform to systems which block young people from participating in the democratic process that they helped put in place.
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Shouldn’t Brady be charged for withholding evidence?
Was rape a crime back then? Yes it was. Was the rape of a child a crime? YES. Cardinal Brady withheld evidence of serious crimes, and ENABLED this rapist to continue raping children for many more years after Brady became aware of Smyths crimes. Brady should be arrested and charged and jailed when found guilty.
Or is there a new category of criminal, blue collar, white collar and now dog collar. It seems the last two categories are beyond the reach of the law in this state. Remember priests jailed previously in Ireland were defrocked beforehand. Heaven help us.
Late but welcomed input from Gilmore… I set up a facebook campaign 3 years ago, looking for Brady to resign, when his involvement in cover-ups broke in the media …. Call me cynical, but, now that this has been broadcast on BBC, and not RTE and TV3 (like it was 3 years ago), now, people think he should resign…. Why do we need to wait for a foreign TV station to broadcast to 100′s of millions what an absolute sham we have in this country, when we were told all these same facts 3 years ago… I can’t figure this part out… GRRRRRRRRRR
I think its because RTE and TV3 are not seen as very credible when it comes to documentary alot of the time when compared to say Channel 4 or BBC, they also air to a smaller audience then the likes of the BBC.
I know many people who just don’t watch RTE anymore and as such would not be aware of the shows they air.
Cal
I agree that it is a dis grace that an English tv channel has highlighted Brady’s involvement with Smiths cover up and his protection … I am getting more and more angry at all that is happening . Is he like so many people in ”powerful ministries” be it banking or politics or the church that he believes he is beyond retribution? e is so far removed from reality that he is not affected by the damage and reality of child rape in a victims life and the lives of family and friends . He must leave or be removed .
There are many people in Ireland unworthy of positions of authority, political opportunists and senior clerics alike.
Well, you have to start weeding them out sooner or later, or they’ll weed you out.
About time a leading politician made a clear unambiguous statement on this.
Three days ago, his backbencher TDs were on thejournal.ie arguing at length that we couldn’t just chuck the religious orders out of primary education, that we have to work with them to achieve some sort of consensus.
Now Gilmore’s saying that anyone who knew what Brady knew shouldn’t be in a position of authority.
Is it me, or do those two things seem to be mutually exclusive philosophies?
Those backbencher TD comments are here btw:
http://www.thejournal.ie/poll-indicates-three-quarters-of-parents-want-change-in-primary-school-patronage-434184-Apr2012/#comments
The sad thing is whomever would replace Brady would share the same mindset.The Vaticans defense of Brady shows nothing has changed.No one it seems to me in the church feels any wrong was done Brady therfore i feel in its present form it is doomed.
To have known and not reported this to the police and the result is this fowl human beast to continue raping innocent children is unforgivable. Brady is as guilty as if he raped these poor children himself, he should face criminal charges
Is Gilmore implying that Brady STILL has authority? Why isn’t Gilmore insisting on the complete dismantling of Brady’s architecture of child abuse concealment? In the new Ireland that Gilmore’s government is busy building, ordinary people, who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own, or who need help from the social welfare, are going to be harassed, bullied and intimidated yet those who are known to have facilitated the coverup of child abuse are just going to be subject to a bit of finger-wagging!
Not good enough Gilmore. It’s time we treated criminals for what they are and afford dignity to those who deserve it.
Martin McGuinness has also called on Cardinal Brady to “consider his position” because of wrongs committed in the 70s… Ehhh… Mr Pot, this is Mr Kettle…
Paul,
actually related to the subject….Remember Michael Woods and the “deal” with the Religious?
Pot, Kettle etc.
Paul, Gerry Adams advised his own Niece to go to the Police about the fact that his niece was being abused. I think your comment is a pretty desperate attempt to slag off SF on a topic like this. Pretty sad really. If i understand your position, you are implying Martin McGuinness shouldn’t have made any requests for Brady to stand down???
Child abuse is a very very serious matter. Dragging it into party political slagging matches is totally inappropriate.
Paul, i just read your twitter account header .. You are a proud FF member … If you consider slagging off Martin McGuinness for criticizing Brady on this issue as one of FF’s prouder moments, you are just demonstrating how little FF have learned in the last few years. I am sick to the pit of my stomach with you and your ilk. You know no bounds or depths to lower yourselves to.
Brady said he didn’t realise the damage that was caused to the children !!! He also maintains that he reported to his bishop who in his turn reported it to the norbertine order (Smith’s order) BUT Why wasa it not reported to the police .These were educated men ! Why did Sean Brady not walk into his local police / garda station and report it . He was a teacher , he was with kids , he should have known the damage smith caused.
Of course he should resign . Exercise some decorum and put his hands up and leave . He is after all only one man and should not be so proud to believe he is any thing more.
Resign? Decorum? I don’t want him to resign with decorum.
I want to see him arrested by the Gardai for failing to report a series of serious crimes against children and perverting the course of justice, and then I want to see him prosecuted for that in court by the DPP and then I want to see him in jail to send a message to the other priests and members of the RCC that Ireland is a hostile place to anyone who rapes a child.
Mark Dennehy
Apologies ! I do not mean he should resign with decorum . Obviously I have not made my self clear . He should resign if he had any dignity and leave. Failing that he should be removed. The problem here is that these guys think they are above all of us . I personally know what I would like to see happen …… However! I did not mean to give the impression that i have any sympathy for him . He is the one lacking dignity and he lacks humility.
Captain Blowhard,more hot air and no action,as usual.The Labour party way!!!
After using opinions to steal from Social Welfare Recipients for over a decade politicians display that no one could be trusted in positions of responsibility until all of the victims are found.
Eh?
All this new information about Cardinal Brady merely having the responsibility of “taking notes” during the 1975 investigation really annoys me.
The TRUTH of the matter, ironically, can be found in a Church statement from 2010 and reads as follows:
A statement from the Church in March 2010 said: “Cardinal Brady had been drafted in to CONDUCT THE INVESTIGATION because he held a doctorate in canon law”.
He says things that court popularity and he fooled a lot of people coming up to the last election.
His pronouncements on this issue have to be taken in that context.
For he knows words are cheap and easy.
What action is he prepared to demonstrate.
For action is warranted in this case.
I have no interest in what the tanaiste says.
Hah Gilmore out of his box again. And flogging a dead horse! Yet silence on the flogging of live horses…. the Irish people. Why don’t you resign Gilmore because as far as I can see you are far more dangerous than some old fop trying to hold onto his career……. oh wait……. And yes I am a disgruntled labour voter.
He should be defrocked,and expelled from ireland.He covered up for too long.
Auld Gil must have been reading the journal.ie poll…
This man Cared more fore his career than the care of children, just as guilty than Smyth.
Credit where it’s due, not often have we seen a politician come out and call it as it is. Thought I’d wait a lifetime to hear the likes of it.
What’s the difference between stating something and suggesting it ?
have your say