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IRELAND HAS PARTICIPATED in the Remembrance Sunday wreath-laying in London for the first time since the 1940s, with Ambassador Dan Mulhall taking part in the ceremony on the State’s behalf.
The British Government asked Ireland to lay a wreath at the annual event last month, making the invitation to recognise “the immense contribution and shared sacrifice” of the tens of thousands of Irish people who had served in its armed forces.
Foreign Affairs Minister Charlie Flanagan said it was an opportunity “to reflect on and remember the thousands of men from the island of Ireland who, for many different reasons, left their homes and families to fight in the First World War and never returned”.
While Ireland has previously attended the Remembrance Sunday ceremony at the Cenotaph, this is the first time in almost 70 years that the State has participated in the wreath-laying.
The last time it happened, in 1946, the Republic was still part of the Commonwealth.
The invitation builds on the successful State Visits of recent years — first of Queen Elizabeth to Ireland in 2011, and, this summer, Michael D Higgins’ return trip.
The Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Foreign Affairs Minister have also been taking part in ceremonies in Dublin, Belfast and Enniskillen today.
Queen Elizabeth, senior royals and politicians including Prime Minister David Cameron also laid wreaths at the Cenotaph national war memorial in London, as hundreds of veterans from more than 70 years of conflicts looked on.
Security was tighter than normal amid heightened fears of the risk of a terror attack, but there was no change to the customary programme of marches and military music.
A 13-pounder World War I gun was fired at 1100 GMT, marking the start of two minute’s silence observed by millions of people across Britain and at British military bases across the world.
Remembrance Sunday is the Sunday closest to Armistice Day on November 11, the anniversary of the 1918 signing of the peace that ended fighting in World War I.
The day has become a time to remember all the troops killed in wars since then.
Cameron said the ceremonies were “particularly poignant” as 2014 is the centenary of the start of World War I, as well as the 70th anniversary of the D-Day landings and the end of Britain’s combat role in Afghanistan.
“Today we stand united to remember the courageous men and women who have served our country, defended our freedoms and kept us safe,” he said ahead of the event.
“We remember all those who have fallen and those who have risked their lives to protect us.”
Additional reporting, AFP.
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Was watching it earlier. No-one mixes pomp with solemnity quite so classily as the Brits. It’s always a great ceremony. Our man in London did a fine job. He didn’t lay our wreathe with any of the other ambassadors, though. Went up to the Cenotaph on his own. It’s a small thing in a way but a big deal in another. He really stood out. The BBC commentators made mention of it more than once.
We’ve repairing so many bridges in our relationship across the Irish Sea and both governments deserve a lot of credit for the softly-softly manner in which they’ve stacked success upon success.
Well said. Ireland was deeply involved in the war and that’s an uncomfortable truth for Nationalists. Great to see Dan Mulhall representing the Irish people with such dignity.
Do we have to put up with this shiit every year. what about every year they say sorry for all the people they murdered I feel angry that some of our politicians have called our Heroes traitors. Men who stood up to an evil empire and died without complaint yet we have to shed a tear for the people who died helping to save it.
wake up ye clowns – did ye see what the British Government did during the torture trial in the seventies – and how many british government s have covered it up since – what a pair of lickarses !
It’s a Sunday afternoon. I’ve no intention of waking up. Might have a nap in fact.
Very moving.
Their tea shall not grow cold like our tea shall.
Not like the French, German etc commemorations, with their no spectacle or drama or weeks of build up.
Then again they lost a lot more dead and aren’t desperately clinging on to the one thing that unifies them as a State.
dead right fergal !
Did you miss the British queen laying a wreath in the garden of remembrance? This is called progress. Look into it son.
says the guy who got his head chopped off by progress !
We should were poppies
So it is not everyones cup of tea to remember people who died in past conflicts.
Lets then join with Germany this weekend celebrating 25 years since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Lets also remember the Russians who built it and its purpose to stop east Germans from escaping into the west. Lets remember the hundreds of people killed trying to escape from communism.
Perhaps one day we will be able to celebrate barriers coming down in this country and mutual respect being shewn for all communities north-south-east & west.
Bad things happened on all sides Dermot, can’t hold grudges forever, small steps like this can help to heal the wrongs of the past and move us all towards a better future!
‘Lets also remember the Russians who built it and its purpose to stop east Germans from escaping into the west.’ It wasn’t actually bulit by Russians though was it? The USSR was multinational entity and it’s most infamous leader was non-Russian. You need to be more subtle in your anti-Russian propaganda.
He was the only ambassador. All the others are High Commissioners of Commonwealth countries. Ireland was the only “foriegn” country to lay a wreath.
that’s ridiculous propaganda Chris – oh the commies are the bad guys – no one more than Russia prevented the rise of Naziism and they built the wall to insure the germans would never again darken their borders – and now look at the E.U. in the Ukraine !
Jop – I know what you say is right – and it is my natural inclination to celebrate all cultures and their diversity – but and my but is this – this ceremony commemorates an army that has played some very very illegal and terrorist acts on this island to my people – if it was strictly W.W.1 and for all the fallen – civilians and soldiers on all sides then I’d bury myself in poppies but there is a darker more sinister underside behind all this pomp and ceremony and that is why I oppose the Irish Ambassador’s actions.
Elm Guest Hopuse has not been dealt with , the sale of arms to Loyalist forces wasn’t mentioned in the Smithwick Tribunal , nothing has been done about the falsification of evidence by the British Government at the torture trail in the 70s – or the British soldiers going around in civilian clothes posing as sectarian terrorists and shooting catholics stone dead as they were just going about their daily lives …. deal with these issues first and then we’ll hold hands and all sing Kum Byah
The Ambassador’s primary duty should be to highlight these issues and to report back on progress – this attendance makes me wonder if he ever went into Guinness and Mahon Merchant’s Bank …
I wonder what millions of Germans would think of your comments Scripto. They would probably laugh at your contempt for their history – maybe you should take a trip to Berlin and see for yourself. I was there before the wall came down, so I can honestly say that I know what it represented.
I don’t see much apologies from the Provos for all the people they killed either, for no end except to make a handful of people rich from diesel laundering, smuggling and assorted criminality.
The sooner we start to grow up as a nation, the better. This wreath-laying ceremony is one small step in that direction.
and the u.v.f. and other loyalist paramilitaries are falling over themselves to apologise just before they go down to the shop and buy their poppies and wear them proudly …. it’s too complicated because the poppy represents current soldiers as well !
Chris I guarantee I know exactly how Germans feel about it having lived with a bunch of East Germans for years. People who actually lived there under the regime , not just visited on their hols as you did. And they tend to be pretty precise and factual (typical Germans) about how they remember history.
It’s obvious you’re not being honest about what you’re saying when you deny basic facts.
You are right Scripto to the point that I was in Berlin for just a short stay, but enough time to see (west) half of the city for myself. The wall represtented a ‘demarkation’ of how the victors of WW2 divided up the spoils, Berlin therefore was sectored under marshall law between Russian, American, British and French forces which effectively ended when the wall came down. The Russians who built the iron curtain from the Baltic to the Black sea decided that they would create a boundary to separate the east from west and prevent its citizens from crossing into the west. Actually in those times to get overland into Berlin meant that visitors had to drive through an east German corridor where it was forbidden to stop along the way. When the Germans built their autobahn, this later provided the Russians with an ideal method for rapid moving of their tanks in an attempt to cut off Berlin altogether, which they tried to do on more than one occasion.
Dermot, you just set out a good case for setting up a truth and reconciliation commission, let’s bring everything out into the light of day. I mean everything, not just the injustices by the British, also those committed by Loyalists and Republicans.
Fully agree Jop . the capacity in the human being to forgive is massive , but if you lie to him then his capacity for vengeance is almost just as harsh – perhaps even moreso …
The one thing that always struck me as being particularly odd was the silencing of Sinn Fein politicians during the troubles – I was too young at the time to have the bigger picture but as more truth comes out about the North I am beginning to have a very very dark view of what has passed as Republican Government since the State was founded !
A liar usually has more to hide than the victim he silences !
None of which proves the gist of your original comment Chris.
The UVF did apologise to all the innocent victims. They offered “abject & true remorse” in their 1994 ceasefire announcement. Of course, that was the leadership speaking for themselves but still, they did say it
Fair enough Silver – but I am sure the I.R.A. did as well – I have come to the inescapable conclusion that about 99% of the world simply want peace and that it is the other 1% that’s ruining it for everyone – and that 1% is Royal Families / dictators ? power-mad governments etc., military chiefs and the arms industry !
@Seanie – your usual deft mix of humour and cutting commentary! Keep ‘er lit!
@ John
Your right,it is a small step in the right direction another would be to accept the conflict in the six counties for what it was a dirty war involving more than the iRA,everyone loves to go on about the IRA but they didnt start the war,they contributed to it majorly and they also called an end to it,your right time to move on so maybe you should start to accept all sides where guilty in this war singling out one side isnt exactly right.
No, we shouldn’t. Let the British keep the poppy symbol for themselves. The French have the cornflower, different symbols for different countries. We are a separate country with a separate identity.
All so very well said !.
Did Ye also see how the Sinn Fein /IRA rapists were all moved around so ever quietly instead of being brought to justice . Their leaders are still in power – so don’t give us Ur cr-p about the British -
Well said.
Mike and what about the british rapists in the elm guest house – the british really slammed them up for a long time – oh and Jimmy Saville – have you heard of him – he loved going around in union jack clothes if I remember correctly !
Not condoning the actions of the I.R.A. by any means just balancing the point above !
We’re living in astounding times. Hopefully we can move forward & embrace the relationship between the two countries & relegate the past to where it belongs – history.
And how does the poppy ceremony relegate history to the past – that is the conundrum /oxymoron or whatever you want to call it ….
Well said.
Marking the past is a crucial part of the present.
How partaking in a day that has become the most sentimental and maudlin pity commemoration of its kind in the world, that goes on for weeks is putting the past behind it.
American has Memorial Day and there isn’t half the BS or fake emotion and they have a hell of a lot of people at it who are mourning partners, children, their crippled sons etc.
Not Great Grand Uncle Albert who died 50 years before they were born.
It is a spectacle at this stage, more about the needs of the people commemorating rather than being commemorated.
“Relegate History to the past”
Did you really just say that??? Was history in the present or the future recently???
Nope, I said relegate the past to history.
Go back and read it again.
And for this who didn’t get it, I was referring to the past in relation to the two countries.
I was actually replying to Dermots comment
Coli I was paraphrasing the first comment – so you will have to deal with Ou on this one !
But to answer your question – History is not this present moment in time or any after that as most understand time …..
@seanieryan so will you condemn the 1916 commemorations and those that attend in the same manner? Is Great uncle Seamus who died 50 years ago is no longer worth remembering?
If it becomes a maudlin spectacle and a farce and an xFactor commemoration then yes I would.
It’s far from pomp and ceremony most of these men died, butchered in squalor and hellish conditions while their elite superiors sacrificed their troops life’s with scant regard…….
American has Memorial Day and there isn’t half the BS or fake emotion and they have a hell of a lot of people at it who are mourning partners, children, their crippled sons etc.
Not Great Grand Uncle Albert who died 50 years before they were born.
It is a spectacle at this stage, more about the needs of the people commemorating rather than being commemorated.
The emotion isn’t fake
Emotion over the dead from a hundred years ago is fake or else it is to do with current issues nothing about the dead.
If the pity progression is going to continue upping each generation, the Great Great grand kids will need to be sedated for all of Oct and Nov.
It is Diana’s funeral on mini-repeat.
It is pop culture not a commemoration.
I’m not sure you’re in a position really to pontificate over whose emotion is fake and whose isn’t.
The number of children and disabled in todays march past the Cenotaph shows the respect of so many people for those who gave their all. Parents of those who died in the Falklands, in Afghanistan and Iraq mingled with those who lost parents and grandparents in the two great wars in a show of respect. The trolls here will never get respect from anyone other than their fellow bottom feeders.
I thought it strange while watching the ‘Remembrance concert’ when Jeff Beck and a lady called Joss Stone sang that famous antiwar song written by Eric Bogle ‘Willie McBride’, a song well known here in Ireland, that they omitted the most poignant and crucial verses, the verses which condemn the useless and needless futility of war. Very strange.
Seanie Ryan is right. I would add it’s such a transparently fake memorial month or two that I suspect there is a lot of nostalgia for UK leaders in reminiscing teary eyed over their long lost empire. Now that they merely compete with the French and Canadians to be Washingtons most loyal international poodle it comforts them to remember a time when their country was independent and actually called some of the shots on a world stage.
http://www.thejournal.ie/ballymurphy-massacre-2-1607055-Aug2014/
Then Josh Stone and Jeff Beck mustn’t want to remember those who died in the article mentioned above – but rather those who made them fall !
That’s the end of their singing careers so it is !
@seanieryan many people use the day and the ceromony to remember or pay respects to those that have died in all conflicts all around the world. my grandfather died in WW2; obviously I never met him so I have no emotional ties to him, but my father observed this day every year, and often spoke of the effects of losing his father on the rest of life. I choose to pay may respects to not only my grandfather, but all those that have died in conflicts, and those that survived. I think they have earnt that.
I’m not trying to be smart here Padraig – but why not remember him everyday rather than this one “special” day …… this is a political act and all war is started by politicians who have a wonderful habit of not going anywhere near the hell they create !
Sorry to hear about the loss of your Grandfather !
Like I say, I never knew him so I didn’t lose him – This for me is about paying respect to the sacrifice made by others. My father was free to remember his father as and when he wanted to, which he did
cool !
blood might run a little deeper than we think though …..
We should have a global day for all of thr innocent people whom have been killed in wars, conflicts, occupations etc not all wars are just and not all those who get killed are the so called enemy.
Great idea Johnathan! Much needed in this crazy world!!!!
I find it fascinating that people still refer to it as famine it was genocide simple as they wanted to rid the land of the Irish and what better way than to ship all the food out during the time of the failure of the potato
Actually if was extreme free market economics at work. There’s no evidence that it was a systematic attempt at genocide.
The reason why we refer to the famine as genocide is because Trevelyan described it as an excellent way to control the Iirsh population , and then of course one had Queen Victoria turning down free aid from the Sultan of the Ottoamn empire – he offered food worth 10,000 pounds and she replied that it would be better if he only sent 1,000 pounds worth as herself and her beloved German Husband were only going to contribute 2,000 pounds worth of aid !
Learn some history Vicky it is as you say FASCINATING !
Theirs no evidence that it wasn’t an attempt at Genocide, certainly seems that it was, the population was halved, don’t think you can justify it by blaming free market economics Scipio.
I find it fascinating that this is the exact same thing that we in the first world are doing to Africa right now, and yet you can be all indignant about the irish famine whilst supporting subsidies for irish farmers, and revelling in the low, low prices on your shopping that free-market economics allows for, ignoring the fact that African farmers, and their families right now are suffering and dying in EXACTLY the same way that irish potato farmers, and the people that relied on their produce, were suffering and dying then
correct Adam – it’s how the rich become Filthy rich !
What I never got about the Poppy day sentimentality fest is that the people who are all gung ho remembering the troops and Great grand uncles never gave a toss about the cripples coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Britain treats its vets very poorly, it discards them.
There is no solemnity or pomp or emotion or votes in cripples.
That’s a point not made often enough Seanie. All these flag wavers vanish when it’s time to come home.
The most hawkish congressmen and Senators in the US actually raided the body armor fund in the Iraq funding bills and used it as pork money to spend on projects in their districts. These a-holes actually had pictures taken with troops while they were doing this, making fake out teary visits to VA Hospitals etc
It’s the same with the first responders. Those who volunteered for duty on 911 were left without healthcare after breathing in pulverized glass and concrete in the pile, they only gave them coverage in 2011, after a campaign by a Comedy Central comedian, John Stewart, shamed them into it.
A US congressman (REP), a draft dodger, accused a Democrat Congressman, who was against going in to Iraq of being a coward and unpatriotic.
The Democrat had no legs, having lost them in Vietnam.
That sums them up.
I remember that, it just goes to show you how absurd their politics gets.
All during the war on terror and 2004, 2006 2008 elections you had hicks in Alabama worrying about terrorist attacks so voting GOP or conservaDem (And getting equal Homeland Security grants to the likes of NY which has only led to more militarized police forces because they’ve no actual potential targets to spend it on), meanwhile the only two states to GET attacked stayed blue, relatively liberal and antiwars like Iraq.
It was actually a strange thing for me to learn that the biggest opposition to the Intervention in Iraq was from within the US Millitary, then they said if you’re gonna do it then we at least need 500,000 troops and a post war plan…they fired the two generals who said this in front of congress and hired yes men who told them they could do it on the cheap with less than half that number…we all know how that turned out…
Did you see how they treat those lads the Gurkhas from Nepal or god knows where? They have fought for the Brits for centuries yet they wouldn’t even cough up pension for them http://m.scmp.com/news/world/article/1458625/gurkha-soldiers-cheated-british-government-pay-and-pensions-lawmakers
WWI was a pointless blood bath and a disgusting waste of human life. At least WWII was a war of necessity (though we have our own baggage about that for totally diff reasons), they were dying for a reason, to save the continent from tyranny. We should not be commemorating it or pretending it was anything other than that bloodbath. We should remember it as a warning never to engage in a war of choice again, maybe if that was the message then the Iraq war would never have happened and the middle east would not be falling apart now because of it.
Traitor
One word …….TRAITOR
Altogether thats 4 words
Here’s another word. Troll.
That is three words Traolach, four if you count your previous post. And it is bs. 35000 ordinary Irish men died in the first world war. 1 in 6 of those who signed up. The Ambassador laying the wreath is recognising and remembering those who died. No more and no less.
The poppy is a distinctly British Empire symbol though Ahippo so there has to be room for disagreement of an Irish Ambassador representing all the Nation at this ceremony – for to allow the british to commemorate their fallen with little or no recognition for all the Irish people they killed is disingenuous is it not ?
Check out what happened to Connacht Rangers in India during the war of Independence – they are being remembered in this ceremony as well – after all they were fallen British soldiers after their colleauges executed them – were they not ?
what about laying a wreath for the millions who died under british occupation including the 2 million in the famine of 1845 and the 2 million killed by cromwell
with you on that Traolach ….although there is a famine statue right in front of Berties National Conference Centre where Angela and the E.P.P. cronies had their chinwag before the European elections …I think a guy called Bonnet was at it as well ….
Yes, you can do that too Traolach. The actions are not mutually exclusive.
Dermot. On the centenary of the outbreak of WW1 I was walking through Brussels and on the side of the EU commission building was an enormous poster of a symbol of commemoration. Can you guess what it was?
The Poppy comes from the poem In Flanders fields, written by a Canadian, the idea of using a poppy came from an American and the First one was manufactured by a French woman. It’s now used internationally.
i also failed to mention the famine of 1740 were between 400,000 and 1 million died , All this crap is glorifying war and the criminals who instigate it.
And I guess it escaped your notice that the Irish wreath was a simple green laurel leaf one. Not a poppy in sight.
I knew that Joe – it was first suggested by an American and that’s fine – but Ballymurphy isn’t in America now is it ?
Don’t forget the Black Death of 1349, where a reputed half of Irelands population died from bubonic plague. Will we blame the rats or the fleas – or perhaps the Anglo Normans.
that’s up to you Chris !
What ho , there’s a jolly – let’s get the poor to kill our neighbours and then we’ll steal their shit !
The rats from 1349 are dead Chris – the rats from Ballymurphy are not Chris – get with the programme good laden !
*ladeen
@trailach grow up.
You utter moron. Grow up.
Crap! What about all the hundreds of thousands who’ve suffered similar deprivation at the hands of the Fine Gael/Labour coalition? And what of thousands who were murdered by their own comrades in the civil war?
And just in case you didn’t notice the DeVIL era is over! Grow up and stop dreaming and relearn your history with an open mind and not a clearly hate-filled ignorant one.
It’s not quite over yet Brehon – there is the overhang of the Catholic Church that no-one in the Dail seems capable of dealing with – it almost makes senior politicians seem complicit in their nefarious activities !
I find the whole Tower of London poppy fiasco utterly contemptible. The First World War was a fiasco of immense proportions. Historians trying to make sense of it almost makes it worse. It was a crime of epic propo
Proportions
It is a spectacle, the spectacle is all that counts for this.
It is what it means for people now, a sense of proportion, a grand gesture in a material world, though in reality it was blood, shi7 and murder for four years and then they were sent back to the North of England, Scotland etc etc and crapped down on for the rest of their lives by the people who sent them in the first place.
None of that matters though, no other country feels the need to go overboard for the month before this.
Even countries who have much more war dead.
It is an identity crisis in a country that has lost Empire and status, and yearns for past glory and a time of jolly chaps stoically doing their bit. A made up past.
It is only the last 15 years that this went from commemoration to jingoistic pity fest for unknown ancestors.
Fair play
There is none in war ….
Depends who is fighting
No it doesn’t – it’s murderous greed wrapped up in terms like “duty” , “freedom” and a whole host of other crap !
If you were Polish you might have a bit more appreciation of the causal link between war and freedom
I’ll just try this again ..
Polish ? – Lech Walesa the former President of Poland recently called for Poland to unify with Germany = you do know that don’t you Silver Planet !
My point was about the wreath laying anyway, that’s why I wrote fair play.
cool Adrian -
What’s that got to do with anything? It was war that liberated Poland from the nazis. Plenty more places were liberated by force of arms too
and plenty of places were unliberated by them as well !
the point about Poland is a political observation on the Lech and his “Solidarity ” movement !
It was war that liberated Kuwait from Iraq. Surely war is justified if there’s a good reason for waging it. I can’t criticise Britain for taking on Iraq the first time but they had no right to be there the second time or Afghanistan. I can’t criticise the Falklands either or their interventions at the request of governments.
this is my take on war Adrian ….
Any army that is on foreign soil is wrong !
It is regardless of reason the invasory force – so should saddam have gone into Kuwait – hell no ! …but this is where the whole problem arises – it should have been up to the kuwaitis through the U.N. to evict him back to where he came from to the edge of the kuwaiti border – the problem arose when the invasion became a “western democracy” thing and it has been going on for 23 years since !
The current system of superpowers overriding international law makes the generals in these countries the real world leaders – and that is something that should never happen !
Politicians should act as the brake on war – not the guy that jump starts it !
So in short I will never go to war overseas but if a foreign soldier sets foot in my country then I must go to war – for soldiers exist for only one thing – to kill those who oppose them regardless of geography !
Will Charlie will be as enthusiastic about commemorating irish men on the 4th July or at Easter?
He will in his ass
No but he will pretend excellently – oh what am I after doing – Charlie won’t be within an asses roar of the 1916 commemorations !
From what I know about it Remembrance Day or Poppy Day is that it is one day where those who have died in armed conflict are remembered and thanked for their sacrifice. A sort of… we are the people and you are the ones who went out and sacrificed yourselves to keep us free, so thank you… type of thing. Sounds like a very noble idea to me. Many countries participate in it in various ways. I am aware that the date and timing of it came about following the end of the First World War and it has been celebrated ever since but it has also evolved to what it is today. Yes, the Brits do pomp and ceremony better than anyone else and good on ‘em for it. I am quite happy for our ambassador in Britain to lay a wreath at the cenotaph on this day.
so you join with him in approving of a tradition the collection of monies from which will be exclusively used for the upkeep of soldiers from Bloody Sunday if they fall on hard times – there is that element to it too JohnJoe …..
Maybe you’re right ……. maybe you aren’t
Interesting one Dermot. But what happens the money collected in the Republic of Ireland for the few poppies sold here?
The money will be “exclusively used for the upkeep of soldiers from bloody Sunday”? Are you actually serious?
apologies Adam … the poppy money charity is for the upkeep of all British Soldiers including those who were at Bloody Sunday ..
The Poppy is a British Legion charity – the British Legion exist solely to help veterans who fall on hard times – cheaper than the queen having to I suppose !
Johnjoe – as far as I know it goes to the Legion !
Maturity is not something that I would associate with some of the kids posting here – hence the puerile comments.
Did you buy a mirror or what ?
The Irish dead remembered alongside their fighting war hero’s collectively! They did this for the world Peace!
Shame our young men haven’t learnt from their deaths.
Bigots or trolls or both adds up to stupidity! Go and disrespect elsewhere!
Seems we have a few people in here suffering from Irish Alzheimer’s – forget everything except your grudges.
This is a complete joke
None of them give two F***s about the war dead they don’t even look after the living soliders when it come to mental health ect
They are just there because it is the political correct thing to do and it is the place to be seen today
spot on Galway you are 100% correct. There isn’t many soldiers killed who have attended Oxford or Cambridge.
It’s a month long festival of faux sadness.
It’s great they saved the billion from the E.U. by saying No wasn’t it – I doubt if this ceremony could have gone ahead without that saving !
We may let the past go but what of the present! When is Ireland gonna take its place among the nations of the world instead of sitting back neutral while other brave men from other countries-notably the countries that took our unemployed and mostly unskilled emigrants in-are on the front lines against ISIS,etc?
Paddy ISIS has been created by the US. In an effort to remove Assad from Power the US gave millions of dollars to the ‘REBELS”. ISIS were one of these rebels and have been committing atrocities in Iraq and Syria. Turkey is a member of NATO and is openly supporting ISIS allowing there to cross from Syria in to Turkey and back. Saudi Arabia is a great friend of the US and they are financing ISIS. If the US are so eager to stop ISIS they should stop the Turks helping them, stop Saudi supporting them and back Assad and join together to defeat them.
Paddy Ireland should stay Neutral. This is not an Irish war.
This is a war that needs the UN and the middle east to stop. NOT NATO OR THE US. Assad would of defeated ISIS if the US haven’t been giving them money, guns and transport to defeat Assad.
And what’s your excuse for Russia shooting one of our nationals out of the sky along with many of our Euro compatriots? A pro Hamas/ISIS march against Israel. Denial of reality mingled with cowardice….
i read a great quote today regarding the British and their poppy.
“Of course there were brave men who fought in it and died, lions led by donkeys as the Ulster Volunteers called it, but that does not excuse its utter uselessness.
Why should we ennoble that dreadful struggle where the upper classes of Europe sent millions of working-class men to their deaths?”
It’s not just the British and their poppy. I’m in Canada and the majority of the people, and not just those of European origin, wear the poppy here too. Two members of the Canadian forces were killed by terrorists in the line of duty in the past few weeks here. The poppy is worn to remind people of the sacrifices that people in the forces have made not just in the first world war or the second world war but all the time and right up to the present day. It’s not ennoblement its acknowledgement.
Edward, the poppy is the symbol of the British empire. For all the soldiers who died for the empire. To me if they left the poppy as the symbol for WW1 and ww2 ONLY i might wear one. But including all British soldiers means to me that there are also a lot of British ‘terriorists’ soldiers included. Those who killed thousands during the South African boer wars. the first and second. When we think of concentration camps we automatically think of Germany but the British kept millions in camps in South Africa during their scorched earth policy in the early 1900′s. They also used these same concentration camps in Kenya during the 60′s. 100,000′s of innocent civilians have been killed by British soldiers while on duty. this included Irish people serving in the British army. They killed and tortured innocent people in Northern Ireland since the 60′s to the 90′s.
I lived in the UK for a few years and i will never ever wear a poppy. There is a lot of innocent blood on that poppy.
Well, we’ll have to disagree so. The soldiers that died here last month were Canadian, not British. The British Empire that you talk about is long gone. I don’t disagree that the Brits carried out atrocities. Plenty of others did too throughout history. Look at King Leopold of Belgian in The Congo for just one quick example. And you know that you wont have to look hard at other nations who carried out similar atrocities in the name of empire building throughout history. But this is not about nations. Many countries that were part of the British Empire or are in The Commonwealth of Nations today wear the poppy but for the reasons mentioned in my previous post. Most people who join the forces do it for the right reasons and not to be terrorists, torturers and murderers. This is not about the murdering Brits. This is about good people who died fighting for their country. Individual people. Not a government or their policies. Not one country. Not one empire. Amazing. Have your opinion. That’s mine.
To answer your point on empire building, those countries who committed those crimes in former colonies need to be held to account for their actions. People in Kenya are today still looking for justice but sadly the British somehow lost all their records, how convenient!! Its not something you’ll hear, see or read in the mainstream media. 40,000 are still looking for compensation.
You also say “This is not about the murdering Brits. This is about good people who died fighting for their country. Individual people. Not a government or their policies. Not one country. Not one empire.”
i think it was 50,000 Irish who died in WW1. In 1912 the people in Ireland lived in poverty, people were ill treated especially catholics, these people rented their land from mighty English landlords who for what ever reason could evict them at a moments notice. since 1800 Millions emigrated to escape from poverty. Thats why there are so many Irish in Canada, the US, Australia and England. 90% of Irish people wanted independence from the empire but were not allowed. So when world war 1 started many joined because a Britain’s mismanagement of Ireland. they were poor, they had no work, no jobs, no money, no opportunity. They joined for adventure and not because the great dukes and lords tell them of their just cause. Also many who wanted independence joined after listening to the words of John Redmond, he told them if they joined, they would help to free little Belgium and that as a response Ireland itself would gets its freedom from Britain. It was a lie. Its very sad that many died for a pack of lies.
The celebrations of remembrance day have royals, lords and wealthy politicians laying wreaths for the brave souls who gave their lives. Ironic really that it wasn’t they who were affected or killed in the bloody war!! Most of English politicians are sons of wealthy bankers and CEO’s who had companies in the far east of the British empire. Who were educated in Oxford or Cambridge.
For me i chose to look at it as a “dreadful struggle where the upper classes of Europe sent millions of working-class men to their deaths?”.
People also wear a poppy for those killed in Iraq, Iraq is an illegal war. Britain and the US invaded because of the threat of weapons of mass destruction. This was a lie, no such weapons were found. There was even a UN report that no such weapons existed. The British should not forget the innocent Iraqis that died at the hands of these British heroes whom the people of Britain were a poppy for.
Some of the commentators on here REALLY need to get a life. Being a Troll on The Journal is not a career! :-)
Pathetic
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