Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
THE CHURCH OF England has defended a tweet it sent about Richard Dawkins after he suffered a stroke.
The original tweet was sent on Friday and asked that people pray for the famous secularist.
The message was retweeted more than 1,000 times and prompted speculation that it may have been an underhanded dig at Dawkins.
Responding to the criticism, a spokesperson for the Church of England said:
The tweet was a prayer. Nothing controversial in that. In recent months a regular diet of prayer has been evident on the church’s twitter stream.
It noted that it had also asked for prayers for the massacre in Paris in November, the flooding that hit the UK in December and January and in the lead up to the British Queen’s 90th Birthday.
Commenting on the controversy that had arisen, the spokesperson said that it had come as a result of, “a misunderstanding of what prayer is, who does it and who it is for”.
The medical incident caused Dawkins to pull out of a tour of Australia and New Zealand he had planned.
Speaking yesterday, the 74-year-old said that he had spent four days in hospital, before being released on Tuesday of this week.
He went on to thank the people around the world who had wished him well.
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
What’s the problem here? Dawkins doesn’t believe but there is nothing wrong with asking people that do to remember him when they pray..
It depends on whether the man himself would find it insulting or not.
I wouldn’t want anyone offering cheap, meaningless prayers for me, but nor would it upset me if that’s what people did.
There’s no doubt though, this was a political move by the Church in question and they did it for self-serving reasons, like they always do.
Your missing the point. Every story has to be brought down to the level of who is offended at what.
“In recent months a regular diet of prayer has been evident”. And yet we still have millions dying of hunger.
Stephen – would it be ok for a priest to perform last rites on someone they do not know to be Catholic? Why do they need to announce publicly that they are praying for him, why not just do it and keep it to themselves? After all according to the book of Matthew is public praying not a sin and the action of a hypocrite.
Richard Dawkins- The God Delusion : The Great Prayer Experiment Dawkins recalls a scientifically controlled experiment in which thousands of churchgoers prayed for the health of sick hospital patients. Needless to say, their prayers went unanswered. Religious commentators invented plenty of ridiculous and even sometimes sickening excuses for why God failed to intervene. This gives Dawkins an easy opportunity to attack the stupidity and insensitivity of prominent theologians.
Praying dosnt work Stephen God exists only in the minds of simple people people who make and erect statues and get on their knees and utter prayers up to them are madder than mad they’re in fact desperate it’s beyond stonage behaviour try praying for your breakfast some morning and wait and wait and wait and wait to see what happens
Stephen, there is no problem if it was, as the church claims, a genuine prayer for his wellbeing. If on the other hand it was intended as a snide dig at Dawkins’ views on the church then it was wholly inappropriate. I think we have to take the church’s word for it though, in the absence of any evidence suggesting otherwise.
@Paddy – Please go and take some English writing lessons – paying particular attention to punctuation skills. Then, we might take some of your ill informed comments a little more seriously.
@The Dude: I agree that Paddy’s lack of punctuation is annoying but his comments are far from being ill informed!
@The Dude. Please comcentrate on your poor arguements. Play the ball.
All gods are invisible, inaudible and omnipotent. Thats how men set them out. That way, when you pray, and you can’t see who you’re praying to, and you can’t hear who you’re praying to, and whoever you pray to does nothing, ya cant give out about it !! Mysterious ways and all that. Has anything I’ve said been unfactual ?
The Dude, have you been informed about something we should know about?
The amount of red arrows, I am guessing from religious folk, is very disheartening. Luckily we don’t need religion and gods anymore because we are slowly working out the answers.
They erect statues, then get on their knees? Kinky.
@John Ward – Yes you are right – they are not ill informed. How silly of me. They are actually badly punctuated ad hominem attacks.
One would have to admire Dawkins making so much money from gullible fools peddling his “there is no God” nonsense. God exists. You just have to ask Him into your heart. God is love. I cannot prove He exists. How do you prove the love of God???
I don’t see any evidence of God therefore I don’t believe he exists Sinead, and that is not without investigation. Each to their own, as long as people don’t try to force the rules of their religion on others I’m fine.
P-Anti Matter, thats grand. When was the last time you spoke to, the guys you can see about, the problem of hunger? All talk!
This story has brought a lot of Crazys out of the woodwork and they are making complete tits of themselves.
A fitting testament to this mans great work
A Christian calling atheists gullible.. Someone who believes in talking snakes, men walking on water, Virgins giving birth, people rising from the dead and all the rest of the mumbo jumbo pedalled to them in a book based on superstition and at best hearsay calling people who don’t believe it gullible…. Interesting.
Gullible Sinead? That’s hilarious, surely you don’t think those that use logic and reason over faith and superstition are gullible?
Hi Roonbox.. Finding God isnt easy.. Its much the same as finding the love of your life. If you are looking in the wrong places you will fail.
Roonbox do you know or do you believe there is no God?
I’ve looked Sinead, I could pretend I believe in something there is absolutely no verifiable evidence for or I could use logic. There have been over 2800 gods through history so you are almost al athiest as I am, I just go one God more.
I don’t believe in God in the same way you don’t believe in the tooth fairy and unicorns.
Strong there is no God
So sinead..where and when did u find him…enlighten us please…
It’s a bit like punch n Judy. ..he’s behind you…
@Sinead Hanley: Finding gods is like a blind man in a dark room looking for black cats that aren’t there!
@Sinead. Anecdotes, strong feelings, nice fables, hearsay, and acepting him into your heart are not evidence of God. Its evidence of indoctrination. But feel free to have a personal relationship with your supernatural friend. It gets you through the day I suppose.
Most athiests believe in a god, they just don’t like him, and most of these athiests are radical modern athiest, that put themselves above anyone outside their religion….
Incorrect. Agnostics believe there may be a God but have seen no evidence. Atheists do not believe in any God’s. Pantheism is the belief that the Universe (or nature as the totality of everything) is identical with divinity, or that everything composes an all-encompassing, immanent god.Pantheists thus do not believe in a distinct personal or anthropomorphic god. Secondly, it’s not the God atheists don’t like, it’s organised religion with all its evils and negative effects ts on humanity that atheist dislike. A person with a personal relationship with a diety, is absolutely fine. But most theists just can’t proclaim enough how much God loves them publicly. Tad egotistical really.
“Most atheists believe there is a god”
Oh FFS, now I’ve heard everything.
Whatever about dumbest comment of the day, this surely qualifies as dumbest comment of the year…
@Avina. Did you not deck the last sentence, equating atheism to a type of religion ? Hahahahha. Poor chap hasn’t a breeze. DNI. Atheism is to religion as abstenence is to a sexual position. Mkay.
It’s a religion.! Minus the diety. Quotes from someone doesn’t validate your opinions.
@DNI . Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views, ethics, and social organisation that relate humanity to an order of existence. About 84% of the world’s population is affiliated with one of the five largest religions, namely Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism or forms of folk religion. Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion. While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. Atheists don’t believe in or worship a or any supernatural deity’s that is, to the view that rejects the existence of God or the gods, that there is no afterlife, and that the material universe is all that is real. Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion then health is a disease. A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, “If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position. Hope that clarifies it for you.
Panti.. I find joy in every day. Not because life is good but because God is.. I really feel sorry for atheists. They believe in nothing, zero. Thats a negative for a start which is bound to generate immense amounts of negativity. I suppose thats why yer favourite pastime is giving out to believers in God and telling us what you are against. Ye never have any good news to share. Ye are missing out on so much and i think its very sad.
@Sinead –
What do atheists live for?
Friends, love, family, knowledge, helping others, music, learning, art, having fun, teaching others, kindness, nature.. everything?
In fact, believing that this is the only lfe I will ever have makes me even more appreciative and want to enjoy every moment.
Atheists don’t need you to feel sorry for them Sinead.
Above comment from Roonbox, accidentally signed in with Facebook account. (Liam)
While retorts oneliners,can be funny, what they inadvertently do is they reveal some of the flaws in athiestic thinking, like your informed view its built on the reasoning of others, you need to feel that you’re not alone with you’re world view, Bill Maher is the same and the other guy that said retort 1) is the same as you. So you’re all seeking to bring in others from the outside, its like what other religious people do too. I mean if you’re gonna say thats not true, I don’t think many would believe go along with what you would say….
dni – Not trying to bring anybody anywhere, just pointing out what I believe to be true based on the evidence at hand. Atheists are from all walks of life and have only one single thing in common, they don’t believe in God or Gods. Thats it. Nothing else. No cult. No recruitment drives. Just pointing out an opinion based on the evidence (or lack thereof) at hand.
@Sinead. Thats all great for you sinead, I know religion is important in a world that’s torn apart by religion. But I don’t need you to feel sorry for me. Morals transends humanity. No god needed. I don’t do altruistic things with the dangling carrot of an afterlife. I don’t do altruistic things for egocentrism. Atheists believe in everything you do, minus that supernatural father figure who’s approval we don’t need to worry about all day every day.
@dni. Whatever man. You want to call atheism a religion, go ahead and highlight your ignorance of the subject. Like my informed view is built on the reasoning of others. Yes, like everything in life. Its called education. Your informed view is built on the reasoning of others too. Its called indoctrination.
Liam.. Kindness, ahem.. Seriously.. The atheists on this thread show no kindness towards Christians. They are disrespectful, arrogant know it alls who think they have a right to ridicule our beliefs.. The influence of Dawkins no doubt.. Now how exactly does this lead to happiness.
@dni. Theres not much difference between me and you. You don’t believe in 3499 gods. I don’t believe in 3500. You are worshipping a geographical God who is the God your parents subscribed to and is the God that is common in the culture and country you were born to. Ie. If you were Indian, you would probably be a Hindu. How do you get your head around that ? So, which of the 3500 God’s are real ? How can you dismiss billions of others equally ascerted belief that their God is the one true God. Have a debate with a Muslim sometime. You will both sound the same.
@Sinead –
Come on now Sinead, You just half an hr ago slated me for never sharing good news, always being negative, feeling sorry for me . I’m sharing my opinion, it doesn’t align with the views you were brought up with and that’s uncomfortable for you. You have the right to an opinion, and I have the right to think your completely wrong. Each to their own. Like I keep saying, as long as you don’t expect others to follow the rules of your religion I’m fine.
@Sinead. Criticism of an ideology is perfectly ligitimate, especially when it effects others negatively on a daily basis. If like you come across, you are so sure of your beliefs, dont let it worry you that we question your religions doctrine. I’ll tell you how not believing in a supernatural metaphysical evil diety leads to happiness. We have nothing to die for, and everything to live for,so we spend our time being humanistic and altruistic and we don’t have to worry about the fires of hell. You are one of those people who relish the thought of going to heaven, while billions of equally kind honest generous people burn forever in hell because they don’t believe, or believe in another diety. You ok with that yes ? Might be some of your friends and family. By the way, the bible clearly only allows for 144,000 souls into heaven. Bit of competition for places amongst the millions I think.
Sinead – atheists do have a right to ridicule your beliefs and it is arrogant of you to think they don’t.
“Religious apologists complain bitterly that atheists and secularists are aggressive and hostile in their criticism of them. I always say: look, when you guys were in charge, you didn’t argue with us, you just burnt us at the stake. Now what we’re doing is, we’re presenting you with some arguments and some challenging questions, and you complain.” A.C. Grayling
@dni – ‘Atheism is a Religion’
This is quite simply impossible. Atheism is the antonym of Religion. The antithesis of religion. Oxford defines religion as “The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or Gods”
“Atheism is defined as disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or Gods”. They are mutually exclusive concepts, like how a meat-eater cannot be a vegan.. an atheist cannot believe in a superhuman controlling power.
Panti… Atheists are obsessed with God. Why waste your energy talking about a fella who in yer minds doesnt exist. Quoting from the Bible??? Whats all that about. Just live and let live..
@Sinead – Atheists talk about God a lot like Oncologists talk about cancer a lot.
@Sinead – I am all for ‘live and let live’ – If all theists lived like that the world would be a much better place.
@Sinead. You will be taking about Allah soon enough as Islam will effect us all more and more as the current crisis continues. Religion effects my life daily and sorry bit you can’t stifle people’s critism. I havnt quoted from the bible yet, it’s too easy. I’ve mentioned it but havnt made quotes. I will at the end. Red thumb away,it’s from the bible. Not my words. Now your on here wanting to tell us all about your religion and your particular one of the thousands of gods, but I already know about religion. Thats why I’m atheist. Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11-14). Now I agree, live and let live, once you have a personal relationship with your God, you won’t have to publicise it on an open forum, and your ideologies won’t be open to critism.
So the reason you are an atheist is cos you “know about religion”. So your lack of belief is a reaction to your dislike of religion.
Not sure who you are asking Sinead, but for me the reason I am an athiest is because I don’t see one piece of verifiable evidence for the existence of God.
As for disliking religion – It doesn’t take a genius to see that religions are very harmful throughout the world, maybe you keep your opinions about gay sex, not allowing contraception in Aids riddled Africa etc etc to yourself, but others aren’t so lucky. Ancient views are forced onto them.
@Sinead. Well basically yes. Its not the parts of the bible I don’t understand that bothers me, it’s the parts I do understand. Its all in there , slavery, genocide,homophobia, anti women ect ect. (Dont have me post the verces pls. I’ll be all night ) I’ll tell you what, and I don’t want to convince you of anything, but if you really want to know why I’m atheist, here it is : as long as religion causes wars, as long as religion treats women as second class citizens, as long as religion causes slavery, as long as religion causes homophobia , as long as religion indoctrinates our children with bigotry and hate, people getting beheaded, burnt alive, genitaly mutilated, stoned to death, anti science, totalitarianistic, protective of peodopiles, proclaim ideas to be better than actual known knowledge, anti abortion, anti contraception, and while (referring to your own religion now, I have been referring to all organised religions ) the likes of your pope sits up on his gold thrown in his gucci slippers surrounded by Billions in stolen Art while sitting over the most curupt bank on the planet, while children die at a rate of 20 since I’ve started this post, of hunger, not to mention the 3 million who die yearly of aids because of his stance on rubbers, ah I could go on all night but that’s some of the reasons. I hate organised religion sinead, but there’s a huge difference in how I feet about people with personal relationships with their God. Now…….why are you theist and how did you pick your God ?
Sinead..have you ever questioned that God exits,or do you just believe because it gives you comfort,if you have what makes your god more believable than other one that people worship.
Sinead your belief is based on a ridiculous book written by people who thought the earth was flat and were confused about where the sun went at night. You are naive at best. Living your life under a total delusion.
Sinead, the issuse with modern athiests is they believe their superstitions are so few that they pale in comparison to what they call superstitious religion. They have them! In their defence they make reference to other religions, multiple gods usually 3500 depending on the athiests, but have they themselves researched these 3500 gods, doubtful! What’s evident in modern athiests is that all they believe generally is at odds to religious beliefs. But can they justify their position on truth, no they can’t. It’s a set of beliefs and standards that can change, depending on who you’re talking to, there are athiests who object to, abortion, same sex marriage, but could you put your hands on a book that defines their system, no, unless you consider books by well know public athiests as a kind of scriptural reference of their own. I see plenty of well meaning athiests, but I also see, athiests that in one sentence say they understand why someone is religious, and in the next sentence say its evil, when what they really mean is they want religion gone!. The modern athiest doesn’t even think he has to debate the evidence of a god or not…..
@dni. Correct. We have no rule book and unlike Christians, where you are refered to as sheep and a flock, you are easy to herd into the same pen. The difference between theists and atheists is herding atheists is like trying to herd cats. We all have our own personal beliefs, we’re not told what to believe, the only thing we all have in common is non relogion. And try herding individual cats into a pen. Baa baaaaa
@Dni. By the way, your distane for others with no belief system is a typical sign of a Christian who is having doubts. Concentrate on the confidence of your own beliefs , and don’t worry if you are so confident in them that they are questioned. Some of us don’t like to suspend our cognitive faculties to pretend there’s a supernatural metaphysical father figure watching your every move. Atheists simply use logic, reasoning and their education. Try it sometime.
@Dni. Lastly, yes, we know about alot of religions. In fact, I would put my house on it that I know more about yours than you do. See when you start to understand religion by actually educating yourself on it, and not rely on your cherry picked version from your school days, it’s then you easily become atheist. My point is thus, yes atheists know alot about religions, thats why they are atheists. Now go away and pray for an end to homosexuality or something.
Your last sentence is gold. Before we debate the evidence of God or not,why don’t we debate the evidence of unicorns or not. It would be the same discussion. Listen, have your personal relationship, it’s organised religion that is an evil virus, and I’d love to see you defend that or rebuke the point.
dni – I am an atheist. Can you please explain exactly how you think I have ‘superstitions’??
@Avina. He doesn’t believe the flying spaghetti monster is real. He thinks it’s just all mumbo jumbo superstition. But I have faith it’s real and dont even think about questioning my beliefs.
@P-Anti – I feel sorry for non believers of the flying spagetti monster, what do they have to live for? Whats the purpose of their life?
Panti matter, you should read your posts, you change your opinions so often. You wouldn’t have that debate because you are a chicken. Time space started the moment of the big bang. And it all came from nothing. Unbelievable!
@ dni – P-Anti comments look very consistent to me. Because you don’t understand something does not automatically mean “God did it”
@dni. That last debate is still waiting on an answer from you so what you on about ? Now if you want a theological debate on the esmxistnace of any of the God’s, not just yours, im all hears …..try not to bring science into it, science deals with reality, not the supernatural. So….where will we start ?
@Roonbox. I Know. Without him in my heart I couldn’t get through the day. My faith is strong and I feel his love. Especially with meatballs. @dni. If you want a dig out, let’s start by you disproving the other two Abrahamic religions that you disregard with impunity, and then we’ll move onto your particular brand yeah ? Isn’t Allah a cnût!
dni, people used to think bolts of lightning came from god too, until our understanding of science and meteorology improved.
ps. you still haven’t answered my question.
@dni. Also, prove your last sentence is unbelievable, or is it the you have faith it’s unbelievable. I could post links to hundreds of prominent physicists who back up my ascertians. But this is a out the ‘God’ idea. Not science..
@dni. Same as the last time. Make unfounded accusations and fail to reply. Your too easy mate. Talk to you again when you come up with any sort of arguement. Take care.
I would say something from nothing is superstitious. First there was nothing then there was something, that’s magical. Those prominent physicists you mentioned I bet they are athiests. When you come here and try to validate yourself, you are no different from the bible thumpers, no difference.
@dni – That makes no sense. If you have one group who demand evidence before believing, and another who are prepared to go against all the evidence at hand and believe something on blind faith, how can you say they are acting the same way?
I am sure P-Anti would change his stance if new evidence was discovered that proved the existence of God. The same could not be said from the other side.
I’m still not sure what your stance is dni – only that you don’t seem to like atheists pointing out the folly of theists.
@dni. You’re a bible thumper and yes I’ve already explained there’s not much difference between us above. I believe something like 96% of physicists are atheist/agnostic or pantheistic but that’s what I’ve been saying. Their educated. They are critical thinkers that don’t just accept something that’s fairly unbelievable as being truth. Have you ever critically looked at your religion, its ideology, it’s doctrine and it’s history or are you another blind sheep ? Lastly, all you’ve done is attack fellow posters with different well informed opinions. Why not concentrate on your poor arguements instead. Have you any at all ??
@Roonbox. DNI is typical of a person who doesn’t think for himself. He has faith. Faith is having no tangible proof or imperical evidence,which is in itself, evidence of non existence. @dni. “” what evidence can I provide to prove the value of evidence with someone who doesn’t appreciate evidence, what logical arguement can I make for someone who doesn’t value the importance of logic”" ( Sam Harris ) I’m sure you are now thinking about attacking Harris, but that still doesn’t progress your poor arguements on the existence of your brand of God.
I’d be first to admit that we don’t fully understand the big bang and we have a lot to learn, but unlike you, just because we don’t understand it doesn’t automatically make me think “it must’ve been god wot dunnit…”
@dni. Your beliefs are not sacred or immune to critism or questions. They’re beliefs in your head. They are beliefs that were indoctrinated into you as a child as a result of where you were born and who your parents subscribed to. Simply having beliefs doesn’t make them true or require others to respect them. Now if I was to be shown some tangible proof, I would have a critical look. I’m asking you a direct question now. If you were born in Saudi Arabia, to Muslim parents, what religion would you be subscribing to now ? Simple question. Tough answer !
@dni. Now you accused me earlier of being chicken. Where you gone ? I’ve saved this article into my book marks so whenever you come back with an actual arguement, I’ll respond. If you do that is. I’ve all night.
I was a bit bamboozled by the other posters here, I going to watch a movie now, I will talk to you tomorrow. Mkay.
Thought as much. Too easy again. Enjoy the flick. God bless
@Dni. Ive been reading through this stream here and i cant see how you would be bamboozled enough to miss P-Anti’s fairly straightforward question. How can you be so sure your God is the one true God as if your parents were Hindu, presumably you would be too. Do you believe you were chosen before you were born, to be one of Gods few chosen people ? How do you think he chose you over billions of others. Do you feel that special devinity in your heart that none of these pagans on here can. Describe it, please. Can you not wait for the rapture with excitment ? Foók……..what if your wrong ! I wonder if we could pick our reliion would you pick Christianity? Id pick mormon , loads of wifes to satisfy my needs what !! Sorry, i should have mentioned at the start. There is no sky fairy. Grow up and stand up on your own !
Its enough to give him another stroke
Any chance Dawkins will stop trolling Muslims on his twitter account?
The other day he called for the BBC to sack a TV presenter because he openly admitted he was a Christian. Sounds like bullying to me.
If this was the Catholic Church instead of the Church of England, Dawkins would be calling on for blood in the streets, but then again he has described himself as “culturally Anglican”, the man is a hyporite.
He’s spot on. Says it like it is – not gonna score too many brownie points but he doesn’t care about that.
I listened to his broadcast here where he asked for well-wishes:
http://richarddawkins.net/2016/02/an-update-on-richards-condition-in-his-own-words/
Prayers are well-wishes. I don’t see the problem.
No he asked the BBC to ditch the presenter because he was a bonkers Young Earth Creationist…you know a reality denier.
T Beckett – yes, a flat earth, evolution denying, 6,000 year old earth believing, dinosaurs were gods trick to confuse us presenter who refuses to work on a Sunday.
T Beckett. You clearly have no idea what bullying is and maybe you shouldn’t try use it as means to try score cheap points in an Internet comment board. Fcuking loser.
The new man at the bbc that he’s referring to has said that he dosnt believe in fossil evidence and he believes the earth is five thousands old, not a credible person to be in charge of nature productions, it’s like believing that your car will run on beer
He us far from a hypocrite Beckett, if you investigated just a little you would see he is fair and consistant against all religions.
@Paddy – Some cars do indeed run on alcohol.
Why are you people hyjacking my comment
Prayers are possibly well wishes, and definitely a total waste of time. But if people wish to waste their own time praying, that’s their prerogative.
A truly amazing man, he has a way of putting words to complicated things that I find extremely difficult to even think and its always based on pure logic.
All Dawlins publicises are facts already known Emma, evolution, Earth’s formation, etc.
You must be pretty simple if you needed him to tell these things. I learned all that in school, and yet I don’t have the inclination to troll people of different faiths all around the world.
He just strawman’s people to aggrandise himself and urges his Internet losers to be bigotted towards certain religions.
So the fact that his is a scientist & studies things like evolutionary biology & writes incredible books on the subject holds no weight in your view.
Well maybe I’m not as smart as you, T Beckett is back, you are probably one of the geniuses of this world.
Have you read the selfish gene? The Blind watchmaker? The god delusion?
Place yourself around the time that they where written and ask yourself who else was writing anything like that at that time?
Have you ever seen any of his lectures? The stuff from the 80′s and 90′s that are on youtube now?
Try to imagine how much he got up the back of the clergy at the time.
All he did was ask people to think logically, when the powers that be where telling people to rely on faith, Its brilliant stuff, he will be remembered 1000s of years from now, .
T Beckett- come on then, please enlighten us with your academic credentials.
Emma Dawkins is ahead of his time a bloody genius if ever there was one the god heads hate him because he makes them look silly and they know it
Wrong again Beckett, where the Dawkins hate coming from?
T beckett if you actually knew anything about the man, you would know he criticises all religions, not just some. He’s no bigot.
If it’s someone wishing somebody else well them can’t see any harm
Then send him a get well soon card and less of the churches trolling.
@P-Anti – I didn’t think it was possible for you to come up with a more stupid comment than your initial one further up the page – but you have proved me wrong!
The real dude would never act like you, for shame!
@Thomas – NEWSFLASH! There is no ‘dude’. The ‘real dude’ is not real at all. He is a fictional character.
Like god? @the dude
@JJ – Ha Ha Ha
@The Dude. Go on then. Which part of my comment is unfactual ? I’m calling you out. Someone who prays to a ceiling calling me foolish ? Hahahaha
They could have just wished him a speedy and full recovery.
Richard Dawkins is cool, he’d have no problem with people praying for him.
Jesus just proof that everybody is offended by everything these days.
@John – It’s just more phoney outrage from the godless left.
@the dude, we’re all godless. The thing us, only some of us know it.
I’d argue the opposite, JJ.
We all have a “god”, whether its the concept of a Higher Power, one’s own ego/rationale, money, or something else entirely. For example, Greek gods were merely personifications of these objects or concepts.
We all worship one thing more than anything else, though we may be conscious of it or not.
Godlessness doesn’t have a political leaning.
I disagree Lurach, I don’t worship anything, I just completely appreciate the only life I’ll ever have.
@lurach – Well said lurach! Good observation. Many fashion gods of their own making.
@Roonbox – So you worship yourself!
If you read it again dude you’ll see I don’t worship anybody, read it twice if you need to.
Well I guess we’re lucky that neither of our opinions define objective metaphysical reality.
Here Dude. If you were born in Saudi Arabia you’d be Muslim. Mad that isn’t it ?
That is normal for the church.
The church always prays for sinners to repent.
“One repentant sinner brings more joy in heaven etc…”
What’s new?
Richard Dawkins is a most mild mannered gentleman,i can’t say the same of most religious folk I know, disgusting people.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Yes…..Lord Haw Haw is our Richard Dawkins.
What’s so funny ?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Leave it Stephen he is clearly speaking in tongues.
Robert, I don’t see how he’ll have anything to explain, there’s no evidence only a book, and depending on where you were born, the book will be different. If there is a god, then he is the one that needs to do the explaining, for example why he let hundreds of millions die over the centuries when he could have resolved it very quickly, please done respond with “mysterious ways” & ” free will” rubbish.
Ok whats the point of life then . We start off with nothing and live for a limited time on this planet ? .(“If there is a god, then he is the one that needs to do the explaining “) why if he exists does he have to explain sh*t to anyone .
Stop searching for a meaning to life. Live it well and find your own. We are nothing but a product of our environment, and our existence will be nothing but a blip in time.
Robert, are you saying that the only point in living is to look forward to your next life? The point is to enjoy this life. Just because you don’t understand how the world works doesn’t automatically mean ‘God did it’
The concept of gods is puerile and belongs to an earlier stage of human development.
Who the hell is Richard Dawkins..?
Really?
Goooooogle!
…a Fool.
Hahahah why a fool Dude?
@Charlie – Please see my response to Ron immediately above, and you will know why.
Ah right. Scriptures. Fair enough.
The guy from treasure island, duh.
Richard is one step closer to finding out if God does exist or not . If indeed God does exist he has alot of explaining to do .
Not true. Your suggestion was put to Christopher Hitchens & his answer was well thought out. See his answer on YouTube.
So he does believe in god or not ?
Robert – Hitchens was an outspoken atheist, Dawkins is an outspoken atheist, what is it about them that makes you question whether they actually believe in God? Do you?
Revelation Chap 20 v12-15
“12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.”
Dude – it is not prayer you need, but treatment.
“His eyes are as green as a fresh pickled toad, His hair is as dark as a blackboard. I wish he was mine, he’s really divine, The hero who conquered the Dark Lord.” – Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. See how silly you look when you quote works of fiction? @the dude
@Paul – LOL. That genuinely made me laugh out loud Paul. Thank you for that uplifting treatment.
@JJ – Yes, but I didn’t quote Harry Potter or the god delusion. But thank you for the tip anyway.
Ooooooooooh touchy….
Nope, you quoted the bible. A work of fiction written by bronze age farmers who people believe know more about the origin of life and the universe we live in than scientists, biologists, geologists, physicists, etc. Now don’t get me wrong, I don’t blame them for writing it, but I do blame people for happily using it as a way if explaining everything when there is plenty contrasting, evidence based literature on the subject.
Dude – glad you took it in the spirit it was meant.
@Paul – no worries man, thanks again for that. Keep it up.
@JJ – …and that “contrasting evidence” would be Richard Dawkins – right?
@the dude, How would a person be evidence? I think you’re losing it.
@JJ – You may or may not find this interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAuGRhZsMCs
…I was referring to his literature of course.
@the dude. You have no concept of how scientific investigation works do you? His book is not evidence. His book is based on evidence. That’s how science works. To theists, a book IS the evidence. Please try and keep up.
@The Dude: See John 12:35.
@John Ward – Yes what am I supposed to be seeing? Jesus is referring to himself as the Light in this passage.
Dude consult a shrink you idiot
@JJ – Dawkin’s position and the position of many like him is a philosophical worldview and nothing more. No scientific evidence disproves the existence of God nor has anything in the bible been proven inaccurate.
In fact, as scientific knowledge has increased, many facts laid out in the bible have been shown to be correct. For example – The bible refers in many places to the stars as being stretched out like a tent.(Psalm 104:2) – This example has been a scientific discovery of the 20th Century that the heavens are indeed laid out this way – Yet it has been in the bible for thousands of years.
@paddy – Consult an English teacher. Your written english is appalling.
@the dude. Do you think god can do anything?
Ezekiel 23:19-21 #bibleclub
@JJ – “For nothing is impossible with God” Luke 1:37
@JJ – Yeah…and…
Old Testament verse written to the ancient Israelites! What point are you trying to make?
“Happy shall they be who take your little ones and dash them against the rock” – Psalm 137:9
@the dude, have him say hi so.
@JJ – Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
Matthew 4:7
@Charlie – The Full quote which you omitted of course verse 7-9
“Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did
on the day Jerusalem fell.
“Tear it down,” they cried,
“tear it down to its foundations!”
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.
Self help books written by nomadic goat herders, hundreds of yrs after JC, don’t hold much weight these days. Just like you wouldn’t follow medical journals from 1700 yrs ago.
If you could translate…Does this mean that it is excused in the name of vengeance? For the record, I am in no way attacking you and have no problem with your beliefs as long as you don’t look to impose them on others or use them to influence the state….well anymore than it has.
I do feel using scripture to label Dawkins a “fool” is somewhat silly though.
“Mr. McGee, don’t make me angry. You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.” The Incredible Hulk.
Dude, quoting religious scripture does nothing but show you like old books. The bible is evidence of the bible, not God.
@roonbox – “books written by nomadic goat herders, hundreds of yrs after JC”
Can you provide me your reference for that little factoid? It looks like you could be the first scholar in all of human history to discredit the New Testament.
@Charlie – I am merely pointing out that yes, there is killing in the Old Testament and this is thrown at me a lot on this site. However, it must be noted that the Caananites whom God in the OT instructed the Israelites to kill or take vengeance on, as you put it – were engaged in the most detestable practices such as human and child sacrifice, and this was the reasoning behind this. You could almost consider these tribes an OT version of ISIS.
As far as Dawkins is concerned – Psalm 14 does indeed say that a person who say God does not exist is indeed a fool. I agree with this in so far as when one looks at the wonders of the universe and even here on this planet – to somehow believe it all came together by mere chance is rather foolish. This si why I also pointed out that Dawkins position is in reality, a philosophical one.
God is an empirically unverifiable hypothesis.
It God exists, he sure demands a lot of worshipping, devotion and adoration. I see some degree of equivalence between God and Trump, personality wise.
“to somehow believe it all came together by mere chance is rather foolish.”
I take it your not a fan of evolution so.
@ Dude
I am not sure ISIS is relevant in this conversation Dude, other than in how people can be driven by scripture maybe. The context in which the bible was written really has no relevance in the modern day and comparisons seem misguided IMO.
To claim Dawkins comes from a purely philosophical position is just wrong. There are measurable factors that have fed his opinion. I can not say the same about the religious disposition. There are innumerable unknowns in our life but personally I find the position of pure faith regressive. After all faith is the core of the main religions.
That is not to say spirituality has no place in our thinking, but to subscribe to a particular religion and to discount the leaps we have made to try understand our part in the universe I find repulsive at times.
I am sorry, in part, that you have decided to damn some of your fellow man due to passages in a book so archaic and to support a church that has poisoned civilization with every changing chance to save itself.
As Stephen has said at some point we will never change each others opinion but I am glad you are willing to engage. I just fear that people like yourself will stunt the progression of this country towards a more open and inclusive society.
The dude sees himself as one of “Gods warriors”
There really is no point engaging in a debate you can not win with people who are this far gone.
Your point makes no sense dude, The bible was written by humans and that is a fact, Humans at that time in that part of the world were Nomadic goat herders, they held the limited world views that nomadic goat herders would typically hold from that period.
@The Dud: My apologies, wrong number crept in – please refer to John 11:35!
@John, you’ll never catch John at 12.35, he’ll be gone on lunch
The Holy Bible. Written over 1600 years in 40 languages by 66 authors on 3 continent, started by sand dwelling Arabs with 99% illiteracy and no education with a life expectorant 45 years with child mortality rate of under 5′s at 25% from people who didn’t understand desease, medicine or natural disasters. Yes, let’s disregard every scientific and education book ever written and concentrate on the one through book of man written stories,fables and evils.
@The dude. The oldest bible know is the Sinai Bible. Its current form, the St James bible, has 14,800 differences. On July 6, 2009, the world’s oldest Bible went digital. The 4th century Codex Sinaiticus manuscript (“the Sinai Book”) is one of the most important texts in Christianity, dating to the time of Constantine the Great. Thanks to the Codex Sinaiticus Project, you can now see and read its raw animal-hide pages. Please stop referring to highly inaccurate more recent books that have been changed over time to be more aligned with actual knowledge as we as a species educated ourselves. Well some of us anyway.
Confirmation that religion preys on folks fear of serious illness and death. I don’t think Richard will be too moved by it all, instead putting his ‘faith’ in his Earthly doctors and medicines.
Winston
I think you will find the opposite. Those of the most faith will fear death the least.
Tom, Seen death up close and personal, cant make a statement like that, I’m more spiritual that religious, I don’t believe we just disappear without trace, but what that is, I don’t know, but to say that religion makes it easier to leave, just not true.
I’d imagine it would be of great comfort on your death bed to believe in eternal life. This is what makes religion so appealing.
Conri
I don’t fear death.
I don’t look forward to the process if there is pain and a continued deterioration in my condition. I’m not completely sure what is beyond the pound we call ‘death’ but I’m quite confident that consciousness continues.
Dr Raymond Moody is worth looking up on youtube. He has compiled much on the near death experience and has answered every question put forward. I think there is ample evidence if you look for it. I wish Hitchins well also.
I don’t want to generalise but I find with atheists a common trend of smugness and ridicule. The fact is. None of us are very sure of anything.
That old lady saying her prayers in the church might have a better handle on this than you think. It may be folly for any of us to be so smug as to think we are wiser.
His earthly doctors and their medicine will ultimately fail.
“I’m not completely sure what is beyond the pound we call ‘death’ but I’m quite confident that consciousness continues.”
Can i ask why you’re confident?
@Tom Berk: Confidence based on ignorance. “Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science.” Charles Darwin
Tom, I’ll make sure and look at it.
Science will never answer to big questions. It is a big assumption to think that this is the only realm.
Tom, absolutely, but we all know and accept this will happen eventually.
Best wishes to Richard Dawkins. Get well soon.
PC much. It’s not like their critiaising him
A salutary warning for some of the atheists who regularly comment here.
Spending your days with a massive chip on your shoulder in a state of high blood pressure cannot be good for ones constitution.
Anyway.
I wish the old guy all the best in his recovery. From a believer’s perspective Dawkin’s pronouncements have provided us with some of the greatest comedic distractions down the years.
Long may he prosper.
I’ll say a prayer for him tonight.
“The man who prays is the one who thinks that god has arranged matters all wrong, but who also thinks that he can instruct god how to put them right.” – Christopher Hitchens.
@ORAN you might find it’s the believers who have that chip on their shoulders…
@Oran Joyce: Get well soon to you too, Onan!
No chip on my shoulder Oran :) I hope some day you use logic and reason over faith and superstition.
Oran believes in a 6000 year old flat earth. End of conversation.
Oran worships the one God ,which is the right click on his mouse.
I never understood why this man made such a big deal about the fact there is no God
@Ron – The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” Psalm 14:1
Put me down for a fool so.
@Stephen – Yes, God says that you are a fool (Psalm 14:1). Imagine being called a fool by God – and yet you are proud of it.
” Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh” – Peter 2:18
Wouldn’t I be even more foolish, to pretend. I can’t fool myself into believing.
@Charlie – Slaves in the bible and in the quote mentioned above were not chattel slaves as you would have found throughout the Islamic world. Rather – they were often treated as good as members of the family to whom they served for. Usually, they were paying off a debt – and under Old testament regulations had to be made free anyway every seven years on the year of Jubilee.
But nice try anyway!.
@Stephen – Yes you are right Stephen and frankly – I admire your honesty.
ACTS 16: 30-31
….and I’ve even given you a green thumb stephen.
I am not really trying Dude, I just googled questionable stuff in the bible. I am glad you can excuse the passage it shows you are well up on your scriptures. Instead of copy and pasting i will just drop the big gay bomb and ask your view on homosexuality.
You def don’t eat shellfish either I hope!!! Again you can probably add context to this I just mention it for the bantz.
I’ve had conversations with sensible religious folk, not Jehovah witness type lunatics or Mormons even worse. And we always come to the conclusion that there’s no way I’ll ever talk them out of there faith and that’s fair enough, and they will never convince me that there is a God of any sort. So we leave it at that and get on with life.
@Charlie – I can let the bible speak for itself on this issue from Roman Chap 1 where he is outlining man’s fallen nature.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men….28Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
@ THE DUDE. SOMEHOW THERE IS AN IRONY IN UR NAME…
So then you are “by the book” so to speak…
Do you think that maybe this divine ruling was in part to ensure procreation between followers? Just to put it in context of the time.
@Stephen – I would like to consider myself as one of those sensible folk you refer to. I hope you come to a knowledge of the truth. Eternal life is a free gift, according to the bible – The Gospel in brief
1. We are all sinners and therefore separated from God. We are in spiritual debt.
2. The wages (wages are what we earn ) of sin is Death (Hell)
3. Jesus paid that debt to provide a way for men and women to be saved –
4. Those who are in agreement with point 1 and point 3 and believe in Christ to save them according to John 3:16 and Acts 16:30-31 are saved and receive eternal life.
Regards
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
@Charlie – Well Charlie I don’t think that is it. The old Testament law says “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable…”. Leviticus 20:13.
So from this context I think it is pretty clear that it has little to do with ensuring procreation in Romans 1 – as this OT law is saying that the act itself is detestable to God.
@3A’s – And what would that be, pray tell? …somehow there is a cap key engaged on your computer.
Dude not engaged at all…just your name..
Fair point. Cheers for reply Dude.
@The Dude. Psalm 14:1. Yes it’s true. Its says so in the bible.
@The dude. You are one of the highly blinded sociopathic believers who would relish spending eternity in a heaven, while billions of good humanistic people who have lived honest altruistic lives burn in the fires of hell for all eternity, either because they don’t believe in a non evidential God or have made equally sincere claims that their God is the one true god. Happy with that set up are ya ? Well best of luck with your 3500/1 shot.
Corinthians 13 :11
When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
The Dude believes in the teachings of the Old Testament. Enough said.
The Dude certainly has his Sunday pulpit.
I prefer the Enlightenment and its legacy, not the bible thumpers or Quran thumpers.
I work in a nursing home and this lovely old lady whom I get on really well with told me she had pains in her knee,she said she rubbed holy oil from medjugorje on it and the next morning she said it worked and thanked God..I just smiled and thought ohhh the innocence,needless to say the next days the pain is back..I can’t fault her for believing.but how many of you would turn to a cure like that..we now live in a world with much more information,don’t be afraid to open up to the facts..
3A’s,
You are making the very bold assumption that you are wiser than her.
The problem with every generation is that they think they are smarter than the last one.
Wiser than her what?
@Tom..not at all…it’s not about been smarter at all because I don’t consider myself smart at all just compassionate.but not because of religion.
3As, my personal experience is that when faced with death even a rational person will grasp at any hope, when leaving behind young children, every little bit of hope is seized, a friend of mine, from what would be called a loyalist area of The north was faced with a similar situation, he admited to me that more than one saint was prayed to and a lot of candles were lit, I personally was very bitter after my own experience and gave my opinions of a religions freely, then a good friend of mine, again with young children got ill, this made me regret all I said, as I would have gave my views to her also. My advice to all, never run down anyone’s sense of hope, you never know when you or they will need to lean on it. But me, I’m still spirtual, with no religious beliefs.
Conri,I’ve lost the most beautiful person in my life within the space of all been normal to 30 minutes later she was gone,the only thing I grasp to is a spiritual world..not one where there is a God..
I3As, I know now our beliefs are the same, but I still will never knock anyone else’s beliefs.
Conri.i just find it hard to accept a God would have allowed this to happen.our lives are as I know it now destroyed,just go day to day.i won’t ridicule someone for their beliefs..but no harm in asking questions based on life not books.
3As, I wish you the best.
Thanks
Dawkins is as fanatical in his a religious fervour as any religious zealot.
Some people speak out against the evils in religion. And he does it expertly.
“Lets not fight. Most of us are Atheists to around 2999 gods some of us are Atheists to around 3000 gods.”
The Gospel according to Emma: Psalm 6 verse 7:11 book IV
“Commenting on the controversy that had arisen, the spokesperson said that it had come as a result of, “a misunderstanding of what prayer is, who does it and who it is for”.”
I think even most religious people know it does SFA at this stage. Still people are way to touchy about these things lately. Are we going to get as bad as America where people are upset by crosses and mangers??
Archbishop Welby. Church of England. The Woolf Institute. Interesting article about him and his role in questioning England’s Christian heritage and role.
http://www.ukcolumn.org/article/who-says-britain-no-longer-christian
I don’t need to read what researchers have to say FACT “not one of them died”after life can’t be explained but one can’t believe dineasourus exsited and believe in a God..pretty simple logic.
Have a read of Life after Life by Dr Raymond Moody. You can find it as a free download.
Why would I want to read that. .
I just go on the simple things in life,for every book u find to tell u there is a God you will find one that tells you’re there is not..can u tell me you believe in dinasours in a single answer.yes or no..
Well don’t read the book then. It’s not compulsory to read it. We are merely having a debate her but what you are saying is ‘this is my view and I’m not considering anything else’.
By the way, the book itself doesn’t tell you there is a God and Dr Moody himself doesn’t believe in God, as such.
Feel free to form your own view. I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I’m merely putting forward an argument.
By the way, what has dinasours got to do with this and why the single answer yes or no?
Are you trying to stifle debate by dictating my answer?
@Tom. Weve had this debate before. Near death experiences are not evidence of anything except near death. In order to meet your maker, whichever one you prescribe to,you must actually die. Thats the rules.
To meet your maker (if he/she/it exists), one MAY have to die. We cannot, either you or I, say anything on this issue, with complete certainty.
You know from our discussions on this issue, I have never foisted any opinion, belief or opinion, as fact. All I have ever done, as in my reply above, is say, consider this.
The one thing that I feel we must accept is that anything that is not of this world cannot be explained by this world. I don’t say that as a cop out but as a statement of fact.
You or I could experience the most profound and lucid near death experience but unfortunately we must accept that we can never prove it scientifically.
I’m not bothered who believes what. I merely make a case and we each make our own minds up.
@Tom. Easy big fella, after having our conversation, thats my stance. Tom when you say “anything that is not of this world” I take it you mean the supernatural. Of course it cannot be explained as there is no evidence of it. I respect your views on the matter tom but I must be allowed argue a different view. The only thing that can be proven scientifically relating to near death experiences is my original point. Its not death.
P-anti
Where have I not allowed you your views? You say ‘Easy’- easy what?
Where in my post have I been unreasonable, closed down anybody else’s view or stifled debate.
I merely gave my own view and said none of us can be certain of anything.
To repeat again. I can’t offer scientific evidence of an afterlife. I have always been clear on that. What I can offer up is testimony of experience.
We accept it or we don’t or perhaps we are very unsure which is probably the prevailing view.
Whether an NDE is or is not death is not really the issue. The important thing, I think is that this type of thing has been written about for hundreds of years by people of all nationalities and all faiths and none.
Believe what you want but be clear on one thing. I’m not trying to deny anybody a viewpoint.
P-anti
“In order to meet your maker, whichever one you prescribe to, you must actually die. That’s the rules’
Can you offer up any evidence to support this view, I’m not trying to be a smart ass but you’ve just presented a major statement as fact and I’m interested to know how you can make such a profound statement. You like to look for evidence so I’m asking you for evidence for this profound statement.
@Tom. I’ll put it to you like this. I could leave you in a very large empty room. And in that room you will meet everybody who has ever lived who have met any God. Thats proof enough for me. On the other hand, and I’ve said this before, I could talk to thousands of sincere and honest people like yourself, who will honestly give testament that they were abducted by aliens, brought to a space ship and probed and prodded. Do you believe Aliens are abducting us ? Thousands do. Why disregard their equally sincere claims that Aliens exist. Dont get me wrong, the universe is probably teeming with life but do you believe these thousands of people ? Of the answer is no, then you understand why I don’t believe in a god, that no living person has ever met. Outside of the bible that is.
Let’s deal with facts.
Thousands believe they were abducted by aliens. Really? I would be interested to know if there are really thousands.
I would also like yo know how many of them had predisposed mental health issues. I don’t think you will find too many fairly normal run of the mill people who claim they were abducted by aliens.
I think in fairness we should differenciate between aliens, space ships and people on their death bed.
NDE’s are experienced by fairly normal people who have never made an outlandish claim in their lives.
There may be some wacky ones and there may be people making stuff up but I don’t think we should let that discredit credible testimony.
I don’t have all the answers but I strongly believe there is something in it. My point with Dr Raymond Moody is that he doesn’t sell any idea. He’s usually up against smarmy scientists who won’t consider anything unless it’s proven in a lab. This type of thing cannot be proven in a lab.
@Tom. The first alleged alien abduction claim to be widely publicized was the Betty and Barney Hill abduction in 1961. Reports of the abduction phenomenon have been made around the world, but are most common in English speaking countries, especially the United States. The contents of the abduction narrative often seem to vary with the home culture of the alleged abductee. The precise number of alleged abductees is uncertain. One of the earliest studies of abductions found 1,700 claimants, while contested surveys argued that 5–6 percent of the general population might have been abducted. I see you are very quick to disregard these people’s equally sincere claims even going so far as to question their mentality. Well, I can understand that tom, I feel the same about people claiming they know a supernatural Diety exists I suppose. I agree with your last paragraph. Lastly, to fully newer your mentality question, Dr. Richard McNally of Harvard Medical School concluded in a similar study of 10 abductees that “none of them was suffering from any sort of psychiatric illness. As a group, abduction experients are not different from the general population in term of psychopathology prevalence.
P-anti
You are getting many thing wrong with my posts. I simply asked a question about predisposed mental issues.
If somebody reported a NDE I would also like to know if they had a predisposed mental health issue.
That however, would not mean it am didn’t happen.
I think any reasonable person can see the difference between spaceships and very intimate moments on s deathbed where somebody reports seeing a mother, wife or brother.
I think that’s a bit different than little green men in a spaceship.
@Tom. I’m sorry but I believed my report on Dr Mc Nallys findings answers your question on pre disposed mentality. How can you disregard their sincere claims ? They are claims that are as valid as your NDE claims, imo. When you realise why you disregard their claims, then you will realise how I disregard yours. When you realise how you can disregard other people’s sincere claims to a belief in a different god than yours, then again, you can realise how people like me disregard your claims. I don’t see the difference in the truth in people claiming to have felt God in ND experiences, to those who have felt aliens have abducted them. Both equally eye brow raising claims.
Actually P-anti, your story on Dr McNally only answers the case of 10 claims. That’s assuming he’s right.
Of course perhaps there is no mental health issues and many are attention seeking, on drugs?? Who knows?
P-anti. We are not in competition here. It’s not tit for tat. I don’t believe you so you don’t believe me. That doesn’t bother me. In my opinion I distinct between the two. As for NDE’s I firmly believe there are people jumping on the bandwagon, that’s to be expected.
If you don’t accept the phenomen of NDE and the views of Dr Moody and others, that’s ok. I’m not trying to convince anybody. However, I think if it’s listened to with an open mind there is quite compelling evidence.
That’s just my view. You can take it or leave it.
As a matter of interest P-anti, why do you think the first reported alien abduction was as recent as 1961?
NDE’s have been reported for over 1,000 years but the first medically recorded NDE was in 1740?
P-anti
If I might ass I see a big difference between an NDE and somebody claiming they were abducted by aliens. I don’t feel I need to explain the difference.
@Tom. No hassle tom, I merely made a point that you can’t just disregard thousands of mentaly stable people’s claims and put it down to them all being mental or druggies. Thats not being very open minded either. The debate on NDE has no conclusion. Well not till were dead anyway. For me, I dont see the difference between the two claims. They are both as equally unbelievable. And you know tom that I’ve researched NDE. I know your not trying to convince anyone else. I never thought you were and wonder why you’d say that. Anyway, thats my opinion and we can agree to disagree on this one I think as there’s no imperical evidence for either.
@Tom. In relation to that Doctors study,I realise that it was only 10 people, but all were found to be normal mentally, but Google is full of them and you could have a look. When we first hear about alien abductions, it is easy to dismiss the entire idea as crazy or unprovable nonsense. However, after doing a little research into the matter, you will find that there is actually a lot of evidence that supports their occurrence. Since the late 1950s, there have literally been millions of claims from people worldwide of being taken by extraterrestrial beings, often onboard a craft and into some kind of operating room where various invasive medical procedures are carried out. Some key similarities found in the majority of abduction claims include: hours of missing time, gaps in memory, mysterious injuries/scars/implants, disorientation, reproductive issues, and other post-traumatic stress symptoms. On the other hand, there have been many reported cases of friendly contact encounters, but these cases do not usually include a forceful experience where they are taken against their will. The point to note Tom, is that the numbers are in the millions.
And guess what P-anti, it could be true. In some cases.
We really don’t know.
We don’t really know very much unless we can see it with a microscope or a telescope or do an experiment in a lab.
Everything else is theory and conjecture.
Agreed Tom. But conversation is healthy. It leads to people admitting that there’s no imperical or tangible proof of any supernatural. So it’s helpful.
Tom.i love the idea of an after life,that keeps me going but I’ve read articles on it and still got no answers so I stopped trying to focus on it just keep it in my mind,hoping,I equate it to someone giving me a riddle I will never find the answer to guaranteed,until I die I will still think of it but what’s the point of researching it..as to to the dineasourus comments, one can’t believe in a God at the same time believe in evolution.
Why can’t one believe in God and evolution?
I think he means tom that if you are Christian and believe in the teachings of the old and new testament as the word of God, that you can’t also believe in evolution as the earth is only 6000 years old. He is saying that you must believe it all, or none. Its a good point in fairness. One I never considered. Catholics however for the most part disregard the old testament but that’s at their peril, Matthew 5:17-20King James Version (KJV) 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Tom..God created man when he created Adam n eve…what about the about 6000 years ago give or take 1 or 2 years…what about the stone age..
There is no answer from the big ‘man’. choose life
Twitter is full of mad yokes anyways lol.
Some folks need a god to look up to, some folk don’t. A few folk on either side like to put the boot in to the other. I’m not loving the alien myself, but why torture those who do?
have your say