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FINE GAEL TD Noel Rock has said that he is concerned that Irish mobile phone providers will be able exploit a loophole to continue charging customers higher roaming charges, when EU legislation banning roaming charges comes into effect in June.
One part of the rules was the concept of ‘roam like at home’. According to the EU Commission, travelers are meant to be able to “call, text and surf on their mobile devices when abroad in the EU for no extra charge on top of the price they pay at home”.
Mobile giant Three, however, had announced that Irish customers on its all-you-can-eat data plan will not be able to avail of the same all-you-can-eat data offer when roaming in the EU.
Rock wants the Irish Commission for Communications Regulation, ComReg, to investigate the matter, something which the regulator has said it will pursue, reported the Irish Independent.
The Dublin North West TD said: “The loophole will allow operators to impose high roaming charges by modifying consumers’ contracts by ensuring that offers such as unlimited data are described as a service benefit rather than a central part of a contract.
This is completely anti-consumer.
Rock added that he hoped Comreg investigated the situation as a “matter of urgency”.
He added that Irish customers had waited for the end of roaming charges for a long time, and that it was vital to ensure they “reap the benefits and don’t have the wool pulled over their eyes by mobile operators”.
A spokesperson for Comreg told TheJournal.ie: “We are aware that a mobile operator has recently informed its customers of new contractual arrangements that purport to draw a distinction between a contractual data allowance and an unlimited all-you-can-eat-data “service benefit”.
We have sought information from the operator concerned so that we can assess whether the operator is in compliance with its existing obligations, as well as with the new roaming rules that will come into force on 15 June.
“We will not say anything more about this matter until we can do so without prejudicing our compliance function.”
EU rules
The move comes ahead of new EU regulations that are set to come into force in the middle of June.
Telecoms operators are obliged to include this ‘roam-like-at-home’ provision in customer contracts. However, customers can still be charged for data usage. As part of the EU’s plan, roaming customers will be charged the wholesale rate for data, 85 cent per megabyte (MB).
In cases where an operator is providing an all you can eat service, the company can limit data volumes to twice what the customer would be able to buy with the value of their contract.
For example, for someone with a €40 per month contract, each 85 cent buys them 1MB of data. €40 buys about 4.8GB of data, so the customer would be entitled to a 9.6GB allowance.
The Irish Independent reported that there is a loophole where a company’s data offering is classed as a ‘service benefit’, rather than a ‘core’, part of a customer contract.
It said a company could do this to provide a lower data allowance to customers travelling in the EU.
However, the EU Commission said in a statement: “There is no loophole by which part of the domestic data allowance could be regarded as gift or side benefit and would therefore not count when traveling abroad.
Doing so would appear like a clear case of circumvention, for which there is no basis in the roaming regulation.
With reporting from Paul O’Donoghue
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Putin is a very powerful dictator. He’s getting more brazen in his actions and less worried about outside views of himself. He’s manipulated elections changed laws to allow reelection, invaded the Ukraine and these are just the obvious ones. He’s a dangerous, power hungry, viscous monster who’s ego is immeasurable. You don’t need conspiracy here.
Bill
Can you point out where in my comment that I’m wrong rather than childishly responding. I’m ok if you disagree but please do so with information if you have some.
Duncan, I’ve learned it’s better to ignore the fools who troll.
They look for the rise and if you take it they keep running with it.
I agree with your comment but not everyone will but you won’t have intelligent people with valid points to back their opinions up if they disagree.
Dunc. What drivel. … Putin is the latest bad man being served up by our squeeky clean leaders. Lets not pay any attention to the fact that we, the demcratic west funded the ousting of a democratically elected leader in Ukraine, whether we liked him or not. We blamed Purin on shooting down an airliner before any evidence was brought forward and still hasnt. We are assuming he has shot a opposition leader on his own doorstep. Putin might not be a nice guy, but unlike gullible people like you, he is not an idiot.
Mainstream media dictate who the people should hate.
If the media turned on Obama you would have more people calling him the next Hitler.
Ed
I don’t buy into the muck from our sqeeky clean leaders but Putin can’t be vilified by the short comings of the western leaders. Putin standing on his own is a nut job with an agenda for dominance. Rather than assuming I agree with the optics of western politics you should probably wait until I say something to back it up for you.
Morning Glen
You’re spot on with the PR machine of media but you’ve got to admit that the probability here is that nut job Putin has flexed his muscles and terrified his growing opposition by killing this guy. Conspiracy not required on this one !!
Bill, all you’ve trotted out there is the mainstream propaganda about Putin. Which is peddling the interests of the neo con US Empire. Just take a look at the military budget spend, and that of the numerous intelligence & private contractor operations. On that basis, the US looks infinitely more dangerous… over a million civilians dead in the Middle East and all the countries that US has instigated regime change are now utterly failed states… but, no, apparently the monster is Putin?
Speaking of ‘monsters’, there’s the present Israeli regime, heavily supported by the US and not just possessing the Fission nuclear bombs of Hiroshima scale, but the Fusion ‘H’ bombs many hundreds of times more destructive, looks to me like the modern reincarnation of a Psychopath run Nazi country. Complete with mass ethnic cleansing and genocide of indigenous Palestinians. And their messianic belief in the ‘rapture’ and themselves as the chosen race. Yet Israel is supported by US and most EU governments and mass media…
No question at all, for anyone possessed of sanity, that Russia’s foreign policy under Putin looks pretty restrained and confined to areas on its own borders. Legitimate interests for any country, especially when the context of the last 25yrs is considered for the region. Mikail Gorbachov, in delivering Perestroika and the break up & liberalisation of the Soviet Union was explicitly promised that the NATO alliance – a military, not civilian organisation – would not encroach on the former Soviet satellite states. Within less than a decade, the exact opposite occurred. Think about it… has the US accepted any even vague nods toward Russia or even left wing governments in Central and South America? No.
Then there is the rise of the Oligarchs under drunkard Yeltsin… a massive theft of state assets and resources that could not have happened without the full support of US/EU governments, banking and business elites. Let’s just take a moment here to recall the recent revelations regarding HSBC’s global money laundering and tax evasion operations, which included drug cartel money… $100s of billions involved…. Does anyone really believe that people like Nemtsov, who was Deputy PM under Yeltsin, with plenty of shady ‘business interests’ himself, actually give a damn about ordinary Russian citizens? Or Russia as a country? Or ‘democracy’? Laughable… just as dumb as believing the US wanted to bring democracy etc to the Middle East… that’s all working out so well eh? And when democracy did break out in Egypt, US and EU their puppets supported a military coup…
Regardless of Putin’s dictatorial approach to power, most Russian citizens can see that he at least has demonstrated serious concern for ordinary Russians and a level of patriotism completely absent from the likes of Nemtsov and the rest of the US leaning oligarchs who are only interested in their personal wealth, preferably denominated in $US. Conditions for ordinary Russians have vastly improved under Putin who is rightly seen as rescuing the country from complete economic collapse under Yeltsin.
Domestic Russian politics needs to be viewed not from a perspective of most of a century of political stability in Europe, but from the reality of massive upheaval and foreign economic and political intervention.
An interesting fact…. over half of the commercial premises’ rental leases in Russia are denominated not in local currency, but $US…. a foreign currency. That was the Yeltsin era Western financial coup. Think about that when judging Putin, and from the eyes of an ordinary citizen.
Duncan the sad thing is that everything you said could be said about bush and obama. We live between two police state dictatorships
Duncan ..take a few minutes to read this article from the internationally respected and renowned journalist John Pilger and then re-read your own text
Fox News / CNN brainwashing comes to mind..
Aye pilger sounds the same as those 9/11 conspiracy theorist! Them and those Fox News type journalist are as bad as each other! Are you going to agree with his views on Yugoslavia?
At last, someone speaking with some sense!! @Mike Hall
Joe
I agree
Mike you are right about the US. However with all due respect pointing out the down flaws of the US dose not make Putin a good guy. Its a bit like the child in the school yard saying Tommy is always beating up Johny and every one cheers. why cant I beat up pat.
Mike
I have to hand it to you that was brilliantly put.
I would agree with you on the vast majority of your comment but I still believe that the Putin agenda if allowed would be no different if he had his way
Duncan I agree with you. Yes we have problems in the west. The US is a state that abuses power as much as any state & has throughout its history. It does however have many different views amongst its own people & political parties. On the other hand putin has all this under control. If you take away all the outside forces negatively affecting russia its own political forces are either dangerous or scared as this man was. Russia is a dangerous place place to live & work if your a journalist with a different view of putins. Putin has been in power now for an unhealthy length of time. He is power crazy & he is a liar. He has committed nuclear terrorism in the UK so he is a man who will go to any length to pursue his own agenda. The only good thing positive I see is many commentators say these are the actions of a failing insecure state so maybe his obituary has been written already.
Glen, I see a few people put you back into your corner yesterday. You went scurrying away and stayed quiet thereafter. And will you ever make up your mind about putin. You are always sitting on the fence but you long to play in Russia.
its bs like this that starts major wars .http://www.ibtimes.com/john-mccain-blames-environment-impunity-created-putin-boris-nemtsovs-killing-1831638
john insane mccain is at it again.
some colourful commentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfn3H0eHogY
” Scurrying away ” Declan ?
I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about. Perhaps you could jog my memory with a link !
What cr*p are you talking about Duncan Putin was elected by the Russian people he is not a Dictator you don’t know what you are talking about!!!!
Greg. The International Observers at the last several Russian Presidential Elections expressed “Serious concerns” over the ballot. Everything from voter intimidation to ballot box stuffing and everything inbetween
@ Which one are the world’s migrants trying to get in to?
And which one has the most trying to exit ?
Mick
People like you tend to turn a blind eye to Obama when he does wrong.
Hypocrites!!
Honest question
What’s your feelings on the fact that Obama breaks all his promises, a fact that’s been regularly highlighted.
Glen I have made no bones about my distaste for Obama. He is without a doubt the worst, weakest most indecisive President the US as ever had.
Unlike Putin, he doesn’t get to stay on as President for 15+ years
Spoddgy
What’s it like driving in the middle of the road.
Correct Stephen. He cant change the Constitution to suit himself like Putin did.
Obama has been weak president. He turned his eyes only to trying to get the economy going and health care pushed through which to be fair he did.
But America’s wealth is largely based on open economy. Benifits them benifits us. that’s dependent on the world being calm place to do business.
Not just Obama but Germany Britain and France should all have vested interests in Ukraine. 45 million population. The potential to be great agricultural country and feed Europe as part of EU.
I feel sorry for Russians and Ukrainians they want the freedoms the lifestyles we have but a tyrant unleashes his dogs of war. Smarter then Kim Jong Un but as evil
But…. What if it wasn’t Putin?
What if it was seal team 7. “Yes” they killed the wrong guy and “yes” it’s dark stuff we don’t like to admit goes on!
But it could be the beginning of the end for Putin if his own country turn against him.
They have a better chance than anyone else really, haven’t they?
Hmmmm. The plot thickens!
Duncan
Putin is an elected president with more democratic support than any other President in the world. It is more than convenient that he was killed two days before a march that was already planned, the same MO as used to start the crisis in Syria and all across North Africa, the Arab spring, its not hard to guess who is behind this.
The power hungry dictators you speak of reside in Washington and European Capitals, they must be denied assumed right of illegal and covert regime change and murder, sheep like you will still support these people in their murder.
Are you lot blind ?
We have had more wars more eroding of freedoms and more police state under Obama.
The wilfully ignorant never cease to amaze me.
Gerard
I’m not suggesting for a minute that something like this murder is beyond the possibility of being organised by outside influences but your comment leads me to believe you think Putin “most democratically elected president in the world” is not capable of killing his most outspoken opposer. I probably share most of your views on Americas control and influence on the international stage but let’s not lose the run of ourselves with regard to Putin. He’s an ambitious man with a hunger for this same power that America holds and he would stop at nothing to get it.
Glen,
You’re view on the legacy of Obama is right and a number of his predecessors have had quite an impact also but Putin is by no means an innocent party. He’s an incredibly cruel and power hungry man. He’s got big ideas and nothing will stand in his way.
Duncan
You assume Putin wants to be like the Americans, that is not so. You and I are capable of killing but, we do not live and think like people that can murder a country every few years, everything YOU say about Putin is in fact only true about his enemy’s, how do you get things so wrong ?
@devaney your the one who is so blinded..you find yourself loving Putin because you hate America.
Ger
What are you on about. Please with real info tell me where im so wrong about Putin.
Glen, Obama will be gone Americans will choose again, Russians are stu k with Putin for the foreseeable future and you my friend are a Kremlin shill!
Gerald what’s the going rate for a Kremlin shill these days? Because you are having a laugh.
Are you living in Russia? Or just a fool
Glen, when a article comes up about Obama we can talk about Obama. But this article is not about an American president. It’s about the assassination of a political leader in Russia. And you keep throwing up a smokescreen to divert attention away from that fact.
Get real!
What you write is just western propaganda rhetoric. If you have not lived as a Russian in Russia for the past 70 years then you know nothing.
I would not suggest Mr Putin is a good guy. But a good guy would be no good for Russia. Look what happened under Gorbachev, and the West gave him a peace prize for it. Well I can tell you in Russia Gorbachev is seen as the President who sold out Russia! But he is trying to regain some credibility in Russia now, and I can see that he is genuine. He just made mistakes in trusting the West!!
Or propaganda? The west is very selective when monitoring countries behaviours. For example many people are beheaded in Saudi Arabia but we don’t hear about infringements of human rights in the Western media. Don’t you think that’s odd?
Duncan
First off, back up your accusations about Putin, forget the ” but we all know that ” or ” But its common knowledge “
S O’Sullivan
Don’t have time for Love and hate, didn’t even watch it on TV. How could you know if I love or hate Putin or America ?
Its you that is living in the cage you built for your mind.
Watched Dara & Eds trip to South America, they stated that more of the poor countries they visit suffered under USA supported dictators that murdered and killed their own civilians. The majority of these countries are poor and society is riddled with gangs. What have they all in common. Under US influence they have huge debts to the IMF and their people live in poverty with no hope and will risk everything to travel to the USA for a better life.
Putin and Russia are the bad guys. Why then are the US good if they invaded and bomb countries to support democracy. Yet they support dictators if it suits them.
If you google a Latin American country with a drug problem, a gangland problem and they’re people live in poverty. Google if they owe money to the IMF. 100% of the time they do. I.e.
I think it was your implicit claim that America likes to kill a country every few years and the bit about Putin being the most democratically supported president in the world and him being a solid president. You would seem to have a cognitive bias blind spot all right
Good night Ger. Thanks for that open debate.
The West had nothing to do with the revolution
For the record
I neither support the west or Russia
I’m simply pointing out that the west are doing all they can to demonise Russia.
Putin is doing a good job of that all by himself.
You’ve living in Russia for 70 years Tony, do tell!
Tony a quick Google reveals articles in Saudi beheadings in “the independent”, “the mail” , “time” and “newsweek”. Sorry you’re wrong!
No, but my mother-in-law, who is Ukranian by the way, and we talk to every week, has lived in Russia for the past 70 years. She says Putin is better than the previous presidents because he is trying to improve things for ordinary Russians.
My wife who is half Ukranian and half Russian, she is anti-Putin, but pro-Russian. And her brother is anti-Putin.
I am not Russian so I’m not entitled to an opinion. (I have only temporary residence there).
It is important to note, Russians are keenly aware that their media is all a stage controlled by central command.
But in the West, many people actually think our western media is unbiased!
Some people actually believe RTE, BBC, The Guardian, the i dependant, The New York Times…
Duncan , US , UK, invaded Iraq and Afghanistan on a PACK OF LIES and killed over a million people on a pack of lies..,…..Putin has over a an 80% approval rate. Also Duncan can you show everyone here the evidence that Putin invaded the Ukraine ? show me the proof of Putin giving the order to kill a so-called opposition leader ? You cannot for sure….
Poor ould sod Duncan
Even worse in the so-called western world Tony, would you like some WMD ? that lie killed over a million people on a pack of lies……
Sam
Duncan is a Troll :)
Mick “troll” your “international observers” are Fascist NAZIs warmongers like most of your supporters here, who bomb and murder millions and overthrow Governments across the globe.
It’s amazing that anyone that disagrees with you is a “Troll”. Must be a lot of Trolls in your World so.
I already advised him to look the word up to find out what it actually means! :0)
Looks like you Mc Cain war monger supporters win this one, which was obviously the intention when your lot had Newtsov taken out to make Putin look bad.
LOL. The Paranoia is strong in this one.
I have said it before and I’ll say it again. Putin is the next Hitler.
But why do you think that, JJ – do you know?
It doesn’t take a rocket scientists. Look at his track record see any similarities. This is not the first person in opposition to be murder. Even those who embarrassed him are turning up death. Remember what happened to the chief lighting engineering when the fifth ring didn’t light up at the winter olympics. His treatment of the lgbt community. He is like a copy cat act. Look back at how hitter rose to power. Need I go on.
Arracht atá ann cinnte, ach ceann a chruth an t-iarthar ar bhealach go háraithe Bush agus a chuid neo-cons. Mariupol an chéad Sudetenland eile.
Putin is bad but I don’t see him any worse then Obama. the only difference between them is we consider America our mate so we turn a blind eye to the constat war they have been waging in the presuit of natural resources. People who speak out in America mysterious die there too.
Tis a wonder then that thousands of people are trying to get into the USA illegally. I’ve not heard of illegal immigration into Russia.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-the-worlds-second-largest-immigration-haven-11053
Next time check your drivel before you post it
Where are all those people coming from though Richard – this point is highly relevant.
I’m guessing that since you can use the journal you can also use Google.
In the name of the fada, can you please translate your Irish musings beneath into English?
That way, we can all brush up on our native tongue.
Thanks in advance!
America has its problems. Most of their foreign policy problems were caused by trigger happy Bush and his daddy. But comparing Obama to Putin a come on man. Have a read of this. http://www.rte.ie/news/special-reports/2015/0228/683548-list-of-dead-kremlin-critics/
I already know the answer Richard – why do you think I made the comment??
@ Avina Most are coming from Russian speaking parts of the former parts of the soviet union. So you are right it is highly relevant.
Correct James – close to zero immigration to Russia from any other developed country.
RTE is just Western propaganda. Even though a percentage of what you refer to may be true, don’t believe what you see or hear on RTE…
Tony, we in the west have a (relatively) free press, although I’d certainly agree its far from perfect. Russia does not, as reflected by its abysmal ranking on the world press freedom index.
The former Soviet Union and the Current BRICS nations are a big part of our world. The 18th, 19th Century Colonian Empires are gone. The USA owe I think as much per Capita as Greece? (I haven’t checked the figures), so like it or not, George Bush’s view of his World Order is not happening despite unsavoury attempts to maintain it, by multiple wars etc…
If Putin intends to be, as claimed earlier in this thread, “the next Hitler”, he’d want to hurry up about it. He’s been there for how many years now?
@Desmond. Loads of illegal immigration into Russia. Mainly from central Asia – Uzbekistan etc, but also from Georgia, Armenia and even Ukraine.
Not Russian speaking parts at all!
Anne. Armenia, Georgia and Uzbekistan are like Ukraine Duel Language countries. A play over from the soviet times
Richard that’s a blog not a “real” news site. Is it Moscow propaganda? I think so
Its because there is no border to illegally cross between USA and Uzbekistan
Tá go leor áiseanna ann anois chun aistriúcháin a dhéanamh.
Ach níor chóir dúinn a bheith . Is é seo an fóram labhartha irish .
JJS
For every critic or journalist that dies in Russia at least ten die in America.
http://www.dcclothesline.com/2015/02/20/3-american-journalists-die-within-24-hours-one-hours-after-interviewing-edward-snowden/
It is impossible to compare Putin to Bush, Obama or any US president because he does not murder millions, it is a sad reflection on you that you don’t want to discern between them.
The Western media keep telling us that Putin was behind this killing – How do we know?
Putin is hardly so stupid as to do this.
It just like the Charlie Hebdo killings in Paris. Something strange about everything that is going on.
@gerard. Where are you coming up with your 10 for every 1 critic being killed? the article you posted has nothing to do with “critics” and the journalist were mainstream journalists. Do you have a point to make?
Avina
Your wrong, the city’s are chock full of Americans and Brits, and every other western country.
Probably because they get such a great exchange rate on the Dollar against the Rouble
Avina
Who does the ranking ??
The (relatively) free western press ?? Or some other (relatively) somebody ?
JJ here’s a good one for ha Hitler was Times man of the year in 1938….
Under Hitler George bushes grand father made millions investing in Germany in the 30′s. The German economy was booming.
Putin is no more a Hitler than Enda kenny.
Russia under Putin has not invaded or bombed anyone. The usa has invade and bombed over 20 countries in the last 20 years. TO BRING DEMOCRACY TO THEM. Yet they refuse to bring democracy to countries where there is no oil or countries that have oil that supports them. Saudi Arabia and Israel have committed crimes against humanity but they are a friend if the USA SO ITS OK. Russia is not a friend so it’s not ok.
@Mick. I happen to know quite a bit about post Soviet language policies. Whilst many in the small collection of countries I mentioned have a knowledge of Russian, the vast majority are far from fluent in it poss with the exception of Ukraine. Most ex Soviet states embarked on an aggressive path of de russification vis a vis language policy and since 1991 the Russian language has become marginal. There is a new generation who have no knowledge of the language at all. You should go to Moscow and visit the government dept that gives out visas to so called guest workers. It’s an extremely depressing place where thousands of people queue everyday with the hope of being granted permission to work. Russian is not one of the languages regularly heard there.
He is definitely the next hitler.. If you mean by hitler a proud nationalist leader whose nation is growing strong under his wing and the the western allies as in ww2 fear him becoming more powerful then them and the use every media outlet as a method of a smear campaign against him then yeh your right
Anne you can just forget a language you have learned as a child. So unless you are under the age of 25 in these countries you can speak Russian you had to.
And anyone who means THAT by Hitler is insulting the intelligence of their interlocutors.
@Thierry, against strong, strong competition, that last comment of yours has to be the dumbest comment I’ve read on TheJournal.
Russia since 1991 has invaded: South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transnistria, Crimea, Donbass and Chechnya.
It is estimated that Three million Ukranians work and live illegally in Russia most of them from central and western Ukraine where there was no industry and they depended on the industry in the east.
I agree Avina. Bring a journalist in Russia is almost as hazardous as being a suicide bomber.
The Western model of what we call democracy is no good for and does not apply in Russia.
But what the Russian people need is a strongman, not a Gorbachev, to combat the Russian Mafia and try ensure ordinary working people have a decent standard of living.
An altar-boy with a candlestick is no good in the front row of a scrum..
Avina
If you want to talk about world rankings and credit ratings, what is the USA ratio of debt to GDP?
Very interesting, thanks Gerard!
No Russia did not invade South Ossetti or Crimea. Georgia invaded southern and northern Ossetti but the western media failed to publish this.
The then Georgian president was a puppet of George bush and has now been recruited by the Kiev Junta to bring weapons into Ukraine to kill civilians in the East.
“Russia did not invade Crimea”
Errrrr… Yes they did.
You may think the invasion was justified, but it doesn’t alter the fact that it was an invasion.
Eamonn Colder, that’s a very short list :)
Try this list of Countries invaded and bombed by the USA:
That’s like saying if Scotland voted for independence from the UK, that they had no right to.
No Tony, its not the same thing at all. Nobody would have a problem with it if it was a Scotland-style referendum. Apart from anything else the invasion happened BEFORE the sham referendum!
Where do you get your information Avina?
If you care to research it, this was the main reason why Crimeans voted to separate:
http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/korsun-massacre-anniversary-what-really.html
Or if you care to go to Crimea yourself and find out so you don’t need to take my word for it..
@james you are insane ………US, UK governments murdered 1/6 of the same poeple killed in the holocaust on a PACK OF LIES and you are callling Puting the next Hitler, just shows the absolute stupidity of you and many others , brainless and no clue whatsover……
Jb. It is you and the rest of the pro Putin people on here are the ones that are stupid and clues and not me. Where in my comment have I denied that the US and UK have murdered people. I never mentioned the UK or the UK. I never said that I am pro US or UK foreign policy. Putin is the next Hitler because his methods are much the same as that of Hitler. Just because some countries are comiting greater atrocities than Putin doesn’t make Putin a good boy, justify or excuse his wrong doings.
Avina Laaf
You have lost the plot.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/22/scottish-referendum-vote-rigging-claims-recount-petitions
Avina Washington warmonger troll, I notice you didn’t comment on the massacre of those people on the buses returning to Crimea, the event which led Crimeans to seek separation from the Ukraine.
You’ll have to do better than that Ger lad:
“All of the apparently suspicious evidence could be easily explained, said a spokeswoman, pointing out that the yes campaign itself had intervened on Twitter on Thursday night to reassure voters that there was nothing awry with the Dundee footage.
— Yes Dundee (@YesDundee)
September 18, 2014
To clarify, ballot papers have not yet been sorted into Yes/No and are just resting on table where No will go once sorted. No need to worry.
At times, uncounted ballots would be placed on tables that had yes or no signs attached before being sorted, she said. And piles that didn’t reach round numbers of 50 or 100 would be wrapped in a piece of paper on which the total number of votes would be written, explaining the Edinburgh footage.
In a statement, the chief counting officer, Mary Pitcaithly, said she was “satisfied that all counts throughout Scotland were properly conducted and scrutinised by thousands of people representing both the Yes Scotland and the Better Together campaigns, as well as international election observers, media and police. None of these people raised any concerns during the verification, counting and adjudication stages.”
All of the Washington warmonger trolls are silent during GMT daytime, they operate like drones sent across the Atlantic to kill innocent people.
The Russian people are good hardworking honest people, unlike the people who gave invaded America and are trillions in debt, but with a currency propped up by the oil trade.
By the way, “Americans” invaded America and killed most of the natives and killed must of the buffalo. The land is not your land, you should give it back to the people it belongs to.
Most people work during the day Tony. Do you not?
Tony and the Vikings invaded Russia butchered any that stood in their way and the Romans invaded Most of Europe, the middle East and North Africa and did the same. The Mongol’s invaded butchered their way through most of Asia and Half of Europe. the Russians under the Tzars invaded the Caucuses and Siberia. the Chin invaded the other kingdoms that now make up modern China.
So what is your point?
Actually Tony if you’d been following these threads you’d know that my stance on Ukraine is that the people of Crimea and East Ukraine deserve the right to genuine self-determination (ie. in a full democratic process with international observers and no outside influence from Kiev, Russia, Europe, the US or anyone else), and that Kiev were totally in the wrong to try and crush the rebellion militarily instead of entering into negotiations.
But, hey, in your simplified view of the world the fact that I’m not as vehemently anti-US as you makes me a “Washington warmonger troll” huh?
Ps. I agree that the vast majority of Russians are decent, honest, hardworking people, which is why they deserve so much more than what they have.
I’ve noticed you’re working almost 36 hours straight on this topic now Tony, the longer a Kremlin shill works the more preposterous and disjointed your arguments seem to get. Reality 101 Putin is a nasty piece of work, a pint sized dictator. Thousands of rich Russians are leaving the country every year, soon it will be a shell of a country a mere ghost of a land. Enjoy living there Tony, nobody else will.
So if an opposition leader in ireland dies judging my the media that means Kenny did it right?
Think il wait for proof before I decide who might have done it – I’m crazy I know..
Not crazy, just naive.
Don’t believe everything you read….
The Pro Putin side on here have accused anyone that sees an apparent link between Putin and this murder as conspiracists or fantasists. Maybe it could be coincidence if it was a solo event. But unfortunately it is not. Even Amnesty International said: “There is already a list of unsolved political murders and attacks in Russia.
Here is a list of people that have publicly criticised Putin and some have been investigating him or his associates.
I will leave it to you to draw your own conclusions.
Litvinenko: Murdered,
Politkovskaya: Murdered,
Yushenkhov: Murdered,
Starovoitova : Murdered,
Shchekochikhin: Murdered,
Girenko: Murdered,
Klebnikov: Murdered,
Kozlov: Murdered,
Markelov: Murdered,
Estemirova: Murdered,
Nemtsov: Murdered.
Trepashkin: Imprisoned,
Khodorkovsky: Imprisoned
Navalny: Imprisoned
Udaltsov: Imprisoned
Davydova: Under House Arrest awaiting trial
An excellent insight.
For all his nationalism – it shows Putin’s *contempt* for patriotic Russians who think differently.
The best thing about it is the Killer gets away Scot free in the most heavily policed areas of Russia isn’t that just amazing?
Nemtsov was part of the 90′s government who stole billions from Russia. Some of them went on to but for example Chelsea football club.
And yet Ordinary Russians mourn his death.
Certainly I would not be in favour of our resources in Ireland being stolen by Oligarchs.
Here is a list from America……POLITICAL MURDERS from the great bastioin of democracy……
John F. Kennedy
Robert Kennedy
Martin Luther King
Paul Wheeler
Malcom X
These were REAL opposition leaders all killed by LONE GUNMAN……well that is what they told the world anyway….lol hahah…….lone gunman all of them……hahahahah
.
what is wrong with Russia apart from the tales being spun by the zio controlled media the same media that has a million dead peoples blood on their hands from the Iraq war …..
Tony. Did Nemtsov take Amy money when he was in the Yeltsin government. Ooh and btw Outing was also part of that same Government as head of the FSB. Did he line his pockets too?
Jb. A question for you. Was the same President in charge when all those Assassinations took place?
Complete rubbish. If you lot listen to this you have learned diddley squat from Iraq,Libya, Syria etc.. America doesn’t like anyone who doesn’t bend over to them. The media supported USA in their power hungry endeavours and when there was nothing there media went away very quick. Blaming Putin on this mans murder is nothing more than another stick on the fire to give USA the excuse they want. Pure propaganda. Every programme you then in from USA now is Russia bad USA good. Wake up. USA stay the hell out of Russia.
Any evidence that the US are in Russia?
Avina Laaf
Maybe you believe they drop by the US embassy for cookies ?
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ie/2012/07/us-agents-of-subversion-deride-russian.html
Is that Boris I see going in ?
I’m aving a great laaf at your stupidity.
Avina will you call for sanctions on the US, UK, FRANCE and the coalition of the killing for murdering over a million people on a pack of lies ? Please call for sanctions , also can you show me evidence of Russia invading Ukraine ? show the video footage of thousands of troops entering Ukraine and military equipment , remember now Avina it must look like the illegal invasion of Iraq…….I.E thousands of troops and weaponary, Air strikes and so on……,can you show me this evidence ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDlX5SSAO0M US troops in Ukraine ? sounds like an american accent to me Avina…..
Jb you know as well as everyone else here that foreigners from multiple countries and regions are fighting on both sides. So try another tack.
With the resources that Putin has, i couldn’t see him making the choice to shoot his opposition leader outside his front door, he could have had it done to look like a accident if he wanted, looks like an outside job to me…
Or Putin is showing how much power he has, he can have someone shot whenever or wherever he wants even in the most heavily policed are in Russia and still not face consequences because he owns the police and judiciary. I can’t think of a much clearer warning, he doesn’t want it to look like an accident he wants to let the opposition know it was murder and any one of them could be next if they’re not careful. And if it was an outside job why would they do it in the one region of Russia where they’re most at risk of getting caught?
Michael you can see Putin running away from the scene with a klock , CNN just told me …….it has to be true ?
If you believe what CNN told you then you are easily lead.
Why does every debate about Putin, turn into a debate about the US?
For Putinists:
- It displays a very deep insecurity that you must always compare everything to America.
- Why can’t Putinism stand on its own merits?
In particular as regards war & imperialism:
- Putinists claim to *despise* these things.
- They endlessly decry US wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc, etc.
But if these things are wrong in principle:
- Then are not Putin’s actions in Ukraine equally wrong?
- Why can Putinists not condemn them?
Why is it the answer so incoherent?
- “Well, the US started it first. And, if they can do it, so can I.”
Very good question Shane. I genuinely think that many of those on here who support Putin do it more out of discontentment and disillusion with western governments and corporatism rather that any rational assessment of what Putin stands for and his actions to date, hence the double-standards when it comes to human rights etc..
We certainly have plenty to complain about, but be careful what you wish for – it could be far far worse. Many around the world would (and do) literally die to try and gain the kind of personal freedoms we enjoy, and far too often (to look at some on these threads) take for granted.
Agreed.
Plus, the very freedom the West gives them to share their views (as on this website)
- is largely absent under Putin’s regime.
“Why does every debate about Putin, turn into a debate about the US?”
Shane it is an old tactic by the Russian Media bloggers. Dominate the fourm, Deflect and change the narritive. Belittle the opposition and try and drive them away.
Avina Laaf
They die trying to get a bit of the life people like you deny them by propping up a system of oppression that loots their countries and kills them.
Gerard, you’re truly deluded.
Did you really just try to blame the west for the fact that ordinary people in countries like Russia have fewer freedoms than us?!!
Avina
Again your wrong, America comes way behind Russia or China for human rights, ask Amnesty or Human Rights Watch.
Gerard, you’re either totally deluded or a poor troll. I’ll go with the former.
Avina
Why can’t you back up that statement ” you’re truly deluded “.
History proves that the victims of the more developed colonial countries are always going to be less developed than their oppressors.
Are you trying to rewrite history ? No one is that stupid.
So, you are just a fool Troll trying to legitimise your cause.
The reason Putin is bad all comes down to the dollar. The dollar is important because all oil is traded all over the world using the dollar. This occurred in the 70′s when the U.S. dollar came off the gold standard and the US made an agreement with oil producing nations that all oil would be traded in US dollars. Ie if Ireland want to buy oil it must first get Euros and change them to dollars and then buy it off their suppliers. This is why we do not see the price Of petrol getting cheaper because of the exchange rate with the dollar has got worse.
Now Saddam the bad guy from Iraq, was killed because he had weapons of mass destruction. Oh ya and the fact he was selling oil in US dollars and then decided to sell his oil for Euros instead. It’s a good job the U.S. invaded because they couldn’t find the weapons of mass destruction but they could return Iraq to selling oil in dollars rather than Euros.
The other bad guy was a fella named Gaddafi in Libya. He tried to sell oil for gold but due to an rising helped by NATO he was murdered. Oil in Libya is now sold for dollars again. They other bad guys wanting to do the same are MR Chaves (he died last year) in South America and Mr Putin in Russia. The media tells these guys are bad. THE TRUTH IS THESE GUYS ARE BAD FOR THE US DOLLAR AND US CORPORATIONS. SAUDI ARABIA CAN DENY ANYBODY THEIR RIGHTS BUT THIS IS OK.
Frank is that you? Because if your are not Frank, Gerard your ramblings are as looney has his were.
Indeed, look how well the former Soviet satellite countries prospered behind the iron curtain. I bet you would like to rewrite history alright.
I did just back it up, with a link to a human rights map Ger lad – did you miss that bit?
Shane let me spell it out……OVER A MILLION PEOPLE DEAD AND WOUNDED ON A PACK OF LIES…….now lets say this again , over a million people died because of pack of lies told by the US, UK governments when they invaded Iraq and Afghanistan……..where is your righteous indignation for the MILLION DEAD and wounded.,…..the world knows that this was attack on a sovereign country based on a pack of lies……
Loads of proof of crimes against humanity, please show me where Russia have invaded the Ukraine ? show the photos and the video evidence of this please……I can show you now the illegal murder of over a million people on a pack of lies.
You see the US goes around murdering and killing and stealing land and building bases all over the world , more than all of the countries put together and you are calling Russia an aggressor ? have you people lost your minds ?
Avina
I said ” Ask Amnesty or Human Rights Watch ”
Not some invented index.
You should find what you need here:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia/russian-federation/report-russian-federation/
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/united-states-of-america/report-united-states-of-america/
http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/united-states
http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/russia
Avina
Read one of the links you posted yourself !
http://www.hrw.org/world-report/2014/country-chapters/united-states *****
Not only all that, the highest execution rate in the world, including the mentally ill, just like the Nazis.
I rest my case on the link you posted yourself
Nobody is claiming the US aren’t guilty of human rights abuses too Gerard!! Would you like me to cherry pick a few lines too? :0)
Enda kenny: note to self
What a stupid comment.. Totally unrelated.. Get a grip!
Another scintillating contribution Seamus, back under the rock.
Russian media are trying desperately to down play the numbers that have turned out for this march claiming that there were only between 7000 and 10,000 people. I think the video of the march speaks for itself. 50,000 to 60,000 would be closer to the mark. And that is just people willing to openly oppose Putin I wonder how many more were at home supporting the march but afraid to speak out publicly.
just as the western media will grossly inflate the numbers. It works both ways.
Zoe. Just look at the videos and the still pictures and tell me that there isn’t about 50,000 people there.
@Mick. Slon.ru and tvdozhd put the turnout at 51000.
A Big diffrence from what RT were saying at 7000
I feel sorry for people who equate their own stupidity to the leader of the largest country in the world. Putin Hitler they cry even though I was the Russian who suffered the most losses 11million military personnel alone. When US treasury secretary Geither insisted the Irish people bailout out German banks and American bondholders was I Putin who ordered that too. No. The Russians upped Irish exports into their country. Putin Russia has a sovereign surplus in the hundreds of billions we put sanctions on them through EU why bcos he offered former Ukrainian president better deal. Now them sanctions cost broke ass ireland alot of money. See if you don’t know you wont know and what you do know is what your suppose to know because that’s all you know. This story is Like Enda having Shane Ross killed on the steps of the dail because Shane had a jibe at Enda. Ha too many soaps people . Did you ever wake up in the morn and realised you suddenly didn’t like Muslims thats your brain been programmed next week you’ll feel the same about Putin. Bernays was spot on manipulation of the masses through fear is the weapon of choice. Try not to base your understanding of the geo political spectrum on dumbed down headlines.. That’s really dangerous we should be fearful of them people they support proxy wars again and again and again without fail …like hamsters on a wheel
Fair play B-egan a very well written comment and very true. Thank you .
I have asked this question on several different threads at different times an none of the Pro Putin side will touch it. All they will do is Red thumb and run.
How did Putin avoid prosecution for mis-appropriation of city funds in St Petersburg when he was a lowly clerk in the city council. Then get moved from St Petersburg to Moscow to be given a minor job in the Yeltsin administration then get elevated over everyone to become head of the FSB and from there be Yeltsin’s nomination to succeed him. And then go on to win the Election when Yeltsin’s own popularity at the time was a mere 5%?
Mick J
I don’t believe Putin was ever charged with ” Misappropriation ” of funds anywhere, a nodding ass would have fared well against Yeltsin, people wanted Putin because he knew the people Yeltins had made rich, and so was in a position to destroy them.
Its just sour grapes on the part of the west that their puppets in Russia lost to a solid president like Putin.
I bet you thought Stalin was a good solid leader too…
Gerard. If you actually bother to do some checking you will find that he was under investigation and was being charged but the prosecutor charging him had a “sudden change of mind” and Putin was whisked off to Moscow.
Mick how did Bush, Blair get away with the murder of a million people on a pack of lies ? please tell me
Mick J
So, as I said, he was not charged with what you accuse him of.
Jb. Ahh Blair and Bush are retired so I don’t the connection to this story.
“Since 1945, more than a third of the membership of the United Nations – 69 countries – have suffered some or all of the following at the hands of America’s modern fascism. They have been invaded, their governments overthrown, their popular movements suppressed, their elections subverted, their people bombed and their economies stripped of all protection, their societies subjected to a crippling siege known as “sanctions”. The British historian Mark Curtis estimates the death toll in the millions. In every case, a big lie was deployed”
“Their man in Moscow used to be Boris Yeltsin, a drunk, who handed his country’s economy to the West. His successor, Putin, has re-established Russia as a sovereign nation; that is his crime.”
John Pilger
@james that is a great quote and comment , you may as well be banging your head off a wall James, people are just too stupid and blind to see what is happening , truly frightening to be honest. They murdered over a million people in Iraq and Afghanistan on a pack of lies and people still support this disgusting , horrible satanic regime in the US and UK……..disgusting
Oh good! So thats Putin guilty then.
I also remember Saddam having weapons of mass destruction. Sure if you keep repeating a lie long enough you’ll start to believe it yourself.
Russia is a mafia run state
Corruption Index ranks Russia 136/175 Ireland 17/175
The figures speak for themselves.
hahahahahahaha…….hahahahaha………Russia is a mafia run country…..hahahahahaha……….and Ireland , US, UK, US are what S. ? bastions of democracy and freedom….hahahahahaha…lol you are cracking me up here S.
Mick J
OK, so we know who Corruption Index work for and who pays them off, the corrupt pay to be clean and point the finger at others to cover their A$$.
Ahh yes I forgot Gerard, everything in the West is part of the One World Order silly me.
I suppose the papers are wrong too in saying Russia in flying in our protected air space cos there is loads of space in that big sky of ours. As is often asked “Do birds fly, do fish swim etc.
The Russians havent encroached our airspace at any point. They flew near it.
@Dave. This very Journal has said that Russia has invaded our protected space AGAIN read up on it
Maybe you should read it again? It clearly states they did not enter irish soverign airspace at any time. Try reading a bit slower, allow it to register
http://www.thejournal.ie/russian-jets-uk-coast-1948902-Feb2015/
@ Dave please excuse me for my insistence on the article about Russian planes , you are right i didn’t read all i just read the headline which to be fair makes one believe that they did move into Irish air space, not an excuse though. Have a nice day
And you actually believe “this very journal”?
Well I’ve seen it all now..:)
Correct Von.
If it’s “in the paper” ask yourself why it’s “in the paper”??
Russia needs a strong man to deal with everything from Europe, NATO warmongers, to Voilvostock in the Far East. Western Europe is smaller than a small province in Russia. A strongman is needed to get control of businesses and ensure social schemes get financed and implemented to Run Hospitals, take care of old people and the sick. And for example Putin has wiped out cortuption in the police force – they are now fairly well paid and cannot accept bribes. Putin brought in law that it is a major offence to drive at a padestrian crossing and drink driving laws are now very strict. These are in place for the past 4-5 years to save lives and to improve quality of life for Russian citizens.
The notion of the “strong man” leader is contemptible.
- It is the essence of un-freedom.
- and infantilises an entire nation.
“No need to think. Daddy knows best.”
What happens what you start to disagree with the strong leader?
- Suddenly, he majesty to command the police and state means nothing.
- Because there is no rule of law, transparent justice or free press to defend you.
Tony Strongman? Call it what it is a Dictator.
You know how idiotic that argument is tony, don’t you. Say it out loud to yourself and try not to laugh. Didn’t the British use similar arguments about the Irish been incapable of ruling themselves or the “natives” in Africa or India.
Sounds just like Ireland at this time don’t you think!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That was at Shane Diffily..
Russia is 127th on Transparency International’s Corruption Perception Index.
Justin, Mick
I’m just telling yo what works in Russia. He probably would be elected even if he didn’t imprison his opponents, but it would probably be a close call.
And if someone less competent was “in-power”, NATO would probably have walked all over Russia by now.
I support Putin in this regard. But I critically oppose Putin when Babuskas (grandmothers) stage a protest outside the Kremlin and are moved away..
The more important point is, he is preventing Russia from being weak, unlike his western supported pre-decessors.
He is good for ordinary Russians (most of the time). This is all that matters. But it’s difficult to know what percentage of people would vote for a change..
Justin
Please read this, the lead up prior to Crimea voting to separate:
It is shocking!!
http://fortruss.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/korsun-massacre-anniversary-what-really.html
I don’t agree Shane. (About the idea of a strongman).
Bullying is rife in Ireland if you work in Government public sector or politics.
The only difference with Russia is they are more honest.
Russia needs a strongman to combat their Mafia and corruption and especially the world terrorists NATO.
A strongman doing good is not a bad thing.
It doesn’t really matter if you find it repulsive, it’s none of our business, it is the business of the Russian people only.
So what you are saying is ordinary Russians are incapable of independent thought and need a dictator to tell them what they need, like, should watch/read and what to question and what not to question.
You don’t think one man can rule everyone and be so influential. There is obviously massive business lobby / Mafia behind likes of Putin and he’s more or less a puppet on the strings. If he disobeyed he would have some car accident himself etc.
Very good article
“The first question we must ask is ‘cui bono’. In this case we know that Russia, in particular Putin, had nothing to gain. The killing of Nemtsov under any circumstances does not make any sense from the view of a Russian or Putin interest. Politically, and alive, he did not pose a real threat. With less than 5%, his ticket and the Republican Party failed to garner enough support to get a seat in the Duma. And, again, with approval ratings above 85%, Putin scarcely needs to resort to these kinds of tactics, which, in any case, despite his legions of slanderers, paid and amateur, he would be loath to employ anyhow . “
http://fortruss.blogspot.ie/2015/02/did-us-murder-boris-nemstov-imminent.html
“Putin had nothing to gain”
* apart from the fact that Nemtsov was about to blow the lid on the true extent of Putin’s involvement in Ukraine.
Cui bono…
And lets just conveniently disregard the fact that Nemtsov himself was fearful that Putin would have him killed.
I’d respectfully suggest that he has a greater understanding of Russian politics than you or I do.
Avina Laaf
Cui bono…? .. America and Kiev !
By your logic Gerard, every time anything happens that makes the US look bad, the KGB must be to blame!
Avina are you that stupid ? If Russia invaded Ukraine as you are always saying you would think by now we would have evidence of this , but yet nothing not a single shred of evidence to show RUSSIA invaded Ukraine……honestly Avina who are you trying to fool here ? yourself ?
If the US AND UK had evidence RUSSIA invaded Ukraine they sure would have shown this evidence by now , but they have not because it is fantasy and more lies just like WMD that murdered over a million people………get your head out of your ar*** Avina
Get down off your high horse jb. Independent OSCE observers reported a convoy of 70 tanks and military trucks towing heavy weapons heading from the Russian border towards Donetsk. What were they, Tonka toys??
Where do you think the rebels are getting their heavy weapons to fight a sustained campaign – the arms fairy?? It stretches naivety to the absolute limit for you to think that Putin isn’t supporting the rebels, not to mention the ‘little green men’ in Crimea that by the way weren’t Russian troops until lo and behold they were… How stupid are you??
No Avina
Every day innocent people shot dead in the US, there is only one group that resorts to getting their way by violence, the west !
@avina show me the link avina and show me the photos and video evidence and I will shut my trap…..so now it is Putin giving arms to the Rebels rather than Russia invading Ukraine, your story is slowly coming apart Avina……….
http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/126483
I’m pretty amazed you weren’t aware of this already, its been around since November!
And I think you’ll find that (with the exception of Crimea) I’ve never claimed that there was a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine. What I have said (and will continue to say) is that Russia is supplying arms and advisers to the rebels (most of the rebel commanders are Russians not Ukrainians, don’t forget the Russian amnesia brigade that accidentally found itself 30 miles inside a foreign country, not to mention the Russian soldiers that keep turning up dead for no apparent reason). Nemtsov was well aware of all this and was just about to blow the lid on it.
Avina
That’s your logic, stir the $hit by always throwing the blame on the victims.
Wtf???
Avina. It’s like as one person put it, trying to teach advanced Math to your dog. That it what its like trying to hold a civil and logical debate with Gerard.
Stalin the second must be stopped.
Nemtsov is a long forgotten political figure with zero popularity.He was just a clown,not even close to be a real opposition.If FSB wanted to get rid of him,it would have been done in a way it would have been embarassing to show in the news,especially considering his appetite for young ukrainian models (not bad for a father of four).Professionally planned murder ordered by somebody outside of Russia.FSB should work on this model lady’s persona – she could be the key without knowing it, as somebody knew they would be walking there at that particular time.you dont pull out a snow-removal machine out of your pocket just like that.
Irene. The 60+ Thousand people marching today didn’t thinks so
Mick J
Your out of your mind, it looks like a last desperate attempt by the regime change cowboys to show they did something for all the money America poured into regime change in Moscow and Kiev, tough $hit ! They failed, I’m sure its going to cost them a lot more now.
What are you waffling about?
Something along the lines of …. The protest today in Moscow was financed and organized by the CIA….as they say in Looney Tunes…”That’s all folks !”
@stephen No one said that Stephen , if a country murders over a million people on a PACK OF LIES Stephen what do you call that ? I would love to know …….what is that called ?
Moscow Police say that CCTV cameras on the bridge were switched off for maintenance !!! Very convenient that.
@Avina sorry can’t reply by reply button on phone. I didn’t say they were in there I said stay out of there.
Well I’d certainly agree with you there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zfBiLRRmtw
i roughly agree with this assessment.
Joe Biden is very popular on journal.ie as meet meets old Catholic priest.
I hear his Son Hunter is profiting from the War in Ukraine:
http://www.bbc.com/…/blogs-echochambers-27…;
14 May 2014 – Burisma, a private oil and gas company in Ukraine, announced this week that it has appointed Hunter …
Hey Tony, the Joe Biden – priest thing is a Fr. Ted joke, if you weren’t a Russian troll pretending to be Irish you would have got that! Didn’t you used to be John deegan?
It looks like the Neo-Con Washington War Mongers here on the journal.ie are winning.
What you mean Tony is People that are capable of logical and analytical thought are not backing down from the barrage of pro Kremlin propaganda.
have your say