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MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT Shane Ross has rejected the idea of adding multiple tolls at points along Dublin’s M50 motorway.
Speaking to the Irish Times, the Minister said the plan was currently not a runner.
In a statement to TheJournal.ie, a spokesperson for the Department of Transport confirmed that the “continued position is that necessary and substantial public transport alternatives would need to be in place before additional tolls could be considered”.
They added that Minister Ross has indicated that he “is not prepared to consider more toll points”.
In a report published last year by the National Transport Authority (NTA), they recommend adding extra tolls alongside a series of measures to ease congestion on the motorway, where increasing levels is becoming “unsustainable”.
The NTA said that, alongside improving public transport, measures such as parking restrictions, multi-point tolling and ramp metering “will be required” to meet the demand on the M50 in the coming years.
As there is no scope to extend the M50 or add additional capacity to the route, they say there are few other alternatives.
Such “demand management measures” are essential to ensure that the M50 retains sufficient capacity to fulfill its “strategic functions”, according to the NTA.
They say that, “without such interventions”, the substantial investments already made in the M50 and other roads will be put at risk.
Between 2011 and 2015, traffic on the M50 has steadily increased. In 2015, the average weekday traffic flow was 145,500 vehicles between the busiest junctions of the N4 and N7.
During peak time in the morning, there was an average of 33,000 vehicles travelling on the motorway, which rose to 34,000 during the evening peak time.
“At this level,” the NTA said, “delays are becoming a regular occurrence on the M50.
This is leading to associated knock-on effects in terms of journey time reliability and associated economic costs and personal stress. In addition, any incident is likely to cause serious delay and the potential to cause outright failure.
Typically, around 120 incidents occur in a typical month on the motorway, with over half of them occurring at rush hour.
The Department of Transport spokesperson indicated that, despite the indication that tolls could reduce demand on the M50 by about 20%, “10% of that reduction was attributable to traffic diverting onto roads which do not have the capacity to handle such increased volumes”.
They point to measures introduced by Transport Infrastructure Ireland since 2015 that would help to ease congestion levels.
These included revised merger layouts at junctions such as Finglas and Blanchardstown, enhanced coordination between bodies such as An Garda Síochana, Dublin Fire Brigade and the Motorway Traffic Control Centre, the mandatory variable speed limits project which is expected to complete in 2019.
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Additional tolls make no sense. If there were viable alternatives people would use them. You’d just be penalising commuters for their own lack of options
Yes! What’s the point of motorways & ring roads if you can’t drive on them?
@Emeralds: My usual trip (not daily0 on the M50 is start to Blanchardstown – would keep me off it. Interesting to know what % of trips cross the Liffey
@Emeralds: But there are viable alternatives if the government use their brains instead of trying to tax people and motorists.
One alternative would be to have a system of park-n-ride off the M50 at Blanchardstown, with a rapid rail system into the city centre. They should also re-locate busarus at Blanchardstown facilitating commuter buses from the M50 & M3 motorways. This would reduce city traffic congestion and pollution levels.
@Jayo, and that makes very good sense to me… from N3 junction I can drive 15km north/east to M1 for free or drive 3km to N4 junction and it’ll cost me €3.
Instead, the “user pays” principle should apply with incremental tolling gantries between each junction charging a cumulative cost of €3 or so.
I guess the problem with “user pays” principle is that Shane Ross’s constituents in Rathfarnham & Stepaside would then have to start paying… All politics is local, as they say.
And Shane Ross was to be a breath of fresh air in the Dáil… no chance.
@Chris Kirk and as the buses would be full coming from Blanchardstown how do you propose other users would get around??.
No one drives on the M50 for the craic. Increasing tolls won’t make a slight bit of a difference to traffic.
The fact that they even considered that (let alone suggest it) gives you some idea of what type of clueless degenerates are making up the numbers at the NTA
Your right on that . No difference at all except someone makes more money
Leave the m50 alone and start building an outer ring now before it is too late.
@David Dickenson:
It is too late.
It’s not too late. Build it from M7 at Naas, up east of Maynooth, north of Dunboyne and join the M1 near Swords.
It’s a no-brainer, would take all the traffic from Munster, Leinster and Connaught that are going to the airport or heading North. A proper Dublin by-pass. Opens up a lot of land for development too.
Agree up to the “opens a lot of land for development” bit. The problem with the M50 was that developers got permission to build beside it thus making it a commuting road instead of a by pass. Any new other ring road should have a strict no development rule
@Ken Mitchell:
No you can’t compare the two, there is not the population density out in Kildare and Meath to clog it up with development.
We have to develop somewhere so if not near major transportation arteries then where do you suggest.
@David Dickenson: The need for an outer ring road bypassing Dublin has been known for some years now. Half the traffic on the M50 has no interest on being on it, they are there simply because there is no viable alternative for north-south bound traffic. If they were to build the M45 half the traffic on the M50 instantly disappears, problem solved. Apparently this is an idea way over the heads of the incompetents responsible for our road network. http://www.irishmotorwayinfo.com/inex/roads/m45/m45.html
That means he will. How do we solve the problem? Build an outer ring road-NO. Build a better public transport system-NO. What do we do then? We’ll tax our way out of it. It’s called the Irish way.
Ross doesn’t seem to do very much since he got his snout into the trough.
All of the NTA should be sacked with immediate effect for even suggesting something so imbecilic… These people are planning our transport network ? Combination of the NTA and incompetent politicians is why we have transport mess we have…. Frightening stupidity…
I am sure the NTA despite being the highest paid such quango in Europe did not come up with this themselves Probably paid some consultants a lot of money to give them a report with this idea in it
@John003: Not just planning the transport network, planning it and working out a way to make a billion out of it. Thats the name of the game, use state infrastructure that someone else paid for (the taxpayers) to generate income by creating a “service” for the users (the taxpayers), and once you have them hooked slowly increase the charges and make sure, at all costs, that no alternatives are made available that threatens the revenue stream. Look at m50 toll, 3.10 for each pass, if you don’t pay after 1 day it becomes 6.10, if it goes 2 WEEKS they add another E41, so that E47.10 to drive down a road where you, the taxpayer, paid for most of it. It was PPP for the bridge which has probably been paid for many times over. No doubt the Gov get a cut of the gravy to slop into their trough so everyone is happy.
@Lazlo Saint Pierre: You are so right. The first half of your post could be copied and pasted into an Irish Water article.
National Transport Authority a quango calls for more tolls What else would you expect from a quango
How about government scheme to encourage more companies to allow workers where possible to work from home
So there is no scope to widen the M50 etc so instead they want extra tolls,How would that fix the congestion?There are tolls on every single road/so called motorway leading out of Dublin. 3 on the way to Cork Limerick and Galway depending on where you live in Dublin. Yet you can travel from Glasgow to London without having to pay a toll,These NTA lads are they the ones who negotiated the contracts with the private operators. You know the contracts that if the toll company is not making x amount the government will cover that amount. Yet if the toll company makes a profit the government gets nothing. We have FF and Dempsey (Another teacher) to thank for that.
@Dave Byrne: Ahh! Dempsey, this is the guy who flew to Derry on the government jet after sending his ministerial Merc on ahead to meet him at the airport and drive him to the McGill Summer School where, no doubt he imparted some pearls of wisdom. And only a short few weeks after he advised us in his capacity as Minister of Transport to drive slowly through the potholes and we would all be grand.
@Pat Farrelly: Sorry, meant to add that the last I heard of him he was living in Florida on a big fat pension supplied by the people who pay extortionate amounts of road tax each year for the privilege of driving through those potholes. So, presumably he doesn’t have to slow too much for potholes himself.
That’s the man who said on Today FM to drive slowly through pot holes.
Is that not his party colleague from Waterford whom employed some pr girl?
@Pat Farrelly: Just been informed that at the time that Dempsey took the jet to Derry its operating cost were near €4,500 an hour. Just think how long you have to work to pay €4,500 in tax. And all so that Dempsey could go and chat with his Aosdana social welfare for the rich recipient friends in Glenties and it was beneath his status to travel there by potholed road. The same roads that he considered good enough for the rest of us to drive on (slowly through the potholes). What a visionary Minister of Transport, a guy who was really in touch with the people. And yet the next government will likely be another Fianna Failure one.
it’s all the fecking minor crashes that cause a lot of the problems. so many people here don’t know how to drive on a motorway and /or pay attention (e.g. stop using mobiles whilst driving).
M50 ? you mean N50, you are only supposed to do 100kph on it.
Dammit i was looking forward to paying more toll charges ruined my new years
You can drive from blanchardstown to Lucas and get hammered with a toll but drive from rosslare to Lucan for free, right through the ministers heart land of south country Dublin. This fella won’t make a decision on anything. Muppet to busy tweeting bets on the football
Build an outer ring road and a metro to the airport would surely make a huge difference.
So without “demand management measures” – aka more cash collections, the ” the substantial investments already made in the M50 and other roads will be put at risk.” – How so? People will stop using it (so less money) or numbers will remain the same (so not more money). Brain is slow today for some reason.
Car parks that cost nothing as long as you then car pool. There should be at least one at every junction. Happens all the time in the North – four people meet at a car park, three leave their cars and four travel onwards together in one car. Not exactly rocket science!
@Anne O’Hara: Does that work well? I am trying to imagine myself and three others doing that. Far too many complications – timing, different destinations, getting back in evening etc,
#lavbeer Find people – even one person – who work near you (or better yet with you) and work 9-5 which is the worst time to travel. Have worked plenty of places where it could have happened but that was before traffic got manic. When it works, it cuts traffic massively.
@Anne O’Hara: Ok – I see the benefit of reducing traffic. But “it could have happened” – it is for friends rather than strangers I guess.
@lavbeer – friends and colleagues!!
@Anne O’Hara: with you yes – apologies I thought you meant an organised share for strangers. Agree with you. Save alot on fuel also etc
Extra tolls on the M50 would only force people onto other roads, whether main roads or in housing estates causing far more congestion. The only solution is good public transport to get people out of their cars.
Once upon a time the roads were financed and maintained by a novel charge called “Road Tax”. It worked very well, perhaps too well. Then the government thought up a new “scam” whereby they would rename the “Road Tax” the “Motor Tax”. The advantage of this would be they could waste that revenue in many useless new ways. Over time, the later generations of drivers became used to the fact that there was insufficient money to maintain the existing roads or provide new ones within Council revenue. The motorist then accepted the notion that if you stopped your car you had to pay to park it. If you used certain roads, called “Motorways” of course you had to pay for the privilege of using it. If you drove slightly faster then the signs quoted you had to pay a large fine. If you forgot your paid meter time had expired you had to pay an even bigger fine. Finally, if your car got wrecked by repeated potholes etc. you had to have a National Car Test to force you to have expensive repairs carried out. If those repairs proved too expensive you might need a new car and pay around 40% VRT on top of 23% VAT just to keep on motoring. You needed to do this as the available public transport was insufficient or, in many rural areas, unavailable.
I know this sounds like a fairy tale or a futuristic horror movie plot but, this is the world I see around me. Perhaps I will wake up from this nightmare if I’m lucky however, I’m quite pessimistic for the future.
The M50 is a complete joke. I sit in traffic for hours a day to get from lucan to the airport and back and I pay a toll for the privilege and have done for many years. The only time the m50 was not operating above it’s capacity was during the recession. What are we doing to future proof these roads. It is obvious a pay on and off option is what is needed to make the road function. Why should I subsidise those staying on one side or the other of the liffey who pay nothing for using the road.
@Aibrean Aine: A bit of nimbyism there Aine but you might be right.
I’m happy to admit my nimbyism. I want an efficient way to get to work. I am happy to pay even more than the ridiculous paye and motor tax rates I already pay. I will pay the extra fee daily but make it a fair and efficient system, not the same ridiculous system that was introduced twenty years ago.
Such idiots, thankfully Ross said no. Suggesting more tolls at the busier points when their own evidence says the busiest point is where the toll exists, ergo its not stopping anyone using it. Spas
Once upon a time ministers claimed credit because they’d done something. More recently they’ve been claiming credit for planning to do something. And now, Minister Ross is claiming credit for having not done something. I guess that’s progress.
For all it’s faults I don’t know how people would manage without the M50.
However it’s about time that other cities were linked – Cork to Limerick must be the worst road in Ireland
I don’t think anyone was suggesting increasing the toll. Just spreading it out, as has been mooted many times, and have 75c each at 4 different points. Someone using the whole road pays the same, with discounts for tags staying put. Someone using the stretch they need pays less and very few people get off free.
For irregular users who aren’t registered, the hassle and fear of penalties alone if they didn’t pay would reduce traffic.
@Stephen: that sounds way too much like a good idea. But do you really think they would keep the cost of traveling the full length the same? For a start, most of the traffic travels only between N7 and N3 and if equal tolls were used all the way from M11 to M1, totalling the current toll, then overall revenue would drop.
So more tolls on M50 on the way then…(always read the opposite to what the government tell you)….
If we reopened closed rail routes it would dramatically ease traffic congestion. If the govt can’t afford it then let private companies do so.
Like tolling the main artery around your capitol city is a great idea.
I don’t know how people in the area stick it being stuck on traffic every day. No thanks.
@Brendan Hill: I go for a walk after work the traffic is usually calmed down or cleared by the time I’m leaving, better an hours exercise than an hour’s frustration
We don’t need multiple tolls! Just ONE toll, for EVERYONE who uses the the M50, rather than loading the charge onto smaller numbers of people who need to drive between junctions 6 and 7. I am paying over €1000 per year, while the majority pay nothing and that is just not fair. Toll all the entrances to the M50, from M1 to M11, and charge a nominal fee, say 25c for cars with tags, 50c for video accounts and €1.50 for pay next day. I expect there would be no drop in revenue as only about 20% of traffic goes through the toll.
@Conrad Shields: but that wouldn’t deter people from using the M50. What they need is to increase the toll, increase the toll points, and then only the rich will be able to afford it. The power mandarins are not happy with the great unwashed driving cars, so they’ve orchestrated it so fuel prices, tax, insurance, and tolls shall go beyond the point of our ability to pay.
Easiest answer is park and ride at all major junctions, alter existing public transport like busses and so on to go through these and then create an M50 luas that goes up and down the line all day. Toll the life out of the road after that if you like.
Why do they say they can’t add more capacity? In several areas they can add more capacity, in others they can increase the length of the merging lane which will help relieve unnecessary slow downs.
A lot more can be done…
@meltyface:
Yeah but if you add a lane in only one section you just create a bottleneck further up. You’d have to add an extra lane the whole way or at least a large section of it, and there’s not the room for that.
The M50 needs six lanes a side or we build on other outer ring around Dublin with some EU funny money….
The M50 already has lots of large gantries for tolls, there is no fairness in one high cost tonto travel over the Liffey, more lower cost tolls would make better sense.
I would like to see where the money targeted to improve roads rather than a central pot, but maybe that’s to much sense for one post.
have your say