@EillieEs: not heard of Andrew Wakefield I see, look him up. He’s an awful human being altogether.

@Darren Byrne: Wakefield investigated a series of children with chronic enterocolitis and regressive developmental disorders in 1998. The only conclusion Wakefield made was the more studies were necessary. Nearly every scientific paper you care to think of is unremarkable in this regard.

His review was rather uncontroversial, all of the the 12 children mentioned in the review were referred to a paediatric gastroenterology unit with a history of normal development followed by loss of acquired skills, including language, together with diarrhoea and abdominal pain. Incidentally they had received MMR. That’s why he called for more studies on the topic.

He was then pilloried in the media by “journalists” with no scientific training nor expertise in the matter and a witch hunt ensued.

@Rob Porter: There is no credible scientific evidence for your silly anti vaxxer assertions. He was pilloried because he is a proven fraud.

@SteoG: What part of his assertions on the 5 page study he stated was incorrect and fraudulent ?

@SteoG: how?

@Colie Mac:

We’ve come from a situation in the early 90s where scientists were disgracefully treated because they asserted that bacteria in the gut caused ulcers whereas now we know that 100s of trillions of bacteria are found living and working in the gut. These microscopic organisms are collectively known as the microbiome, helping our body to digest food, process nutrients, make vitamins B and K, and produce immune molecules that fight inflammation and heal wounds.

Scientists now assert that illness, antibiotics, medicines, diet, and just about every other environmental factor influence the microbiome and the brain-gut axis.

Where Wakefield went wrong is that he should have tried to cash in on his discovery instead of blowing the whistle.

@Rob Porter: Absolute rubbish. The doctor who discovered the link between the h-pylori bacteria and stomach ulcers did so in order that his findings could be replicated. He deserves praise for this. Andrew Wakefield knowingly, and fraudulently, falsified his research in order to promote a vaccine he had a financial interest in. His “research” couldn’t be repeated, he was discredited, lost his license to practice and narrowly a prison sentence.
Unfortunately his “so called research” continues to be quoted online as proof by those somewhat gullible, while he can only find an audience in America.

@Arch Angel: Prof John Walker-Smith? https://www.bbc.com/news/health-17283751

@Rob Porter: Wakefield is a fraud. That is a fact https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/breaking-bmj-calls-andrew-wakefield-a-fraud

@Rob Porter: A fraud https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927953-200-mmr-scandal-wakefield-accused-of-deliberate-fraud/

@Rob Porter: The fraud was so serious that he was stripped of his medical licence https://www.vox.com/2018/2/27/17057990/andrew-wakefield-vaccines-autism-study

@Rob Porter: I could post damming evidence from the scientific and medical journals all day but you and your fellow conspiracy science denier musicians do not accept credible evidence. You don’t have any credible evidence for your assertions at all. Not a bit. https://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452

@Do the Bort man: perish the thought there should be open discussion! Now yer thinkin

@Rob Porter: Yes he did try to cash in. It seemed to me that he wasn’t against vaccination at all. He sold them himself. He seems to have got the notion that he could easily make more money selling single vaccines, one at a time. Obviously he’d make more for every visit. But they didn’t. Why should they? They were happy with the effective vaccination schedule as it was. When you think about it, he couldn’t sell his own brand of single-jab vaccines without encouraging people to fault the current system and get them to pay extra to buy his version. So his actions disrupted that. Sure it’s an old marketing gimmick. Except that usually people still have a choice. As I see it, there are a thousand people dead now in America alone, because of his greed. He put them off the whole idea.

@Eileen-Mai Moore: Did you make that up? It is FrankinScience Adults the vast majority fully vaccinated with 2 MMR getting mumps where is it much more dangerous.Inflammation of one or both testicles (a condition called orchitis) occurs in approximately one in three post-pubertal men who get mumps and can contribute to sperm defects and subfertility as well as impairing the function of cells that produce testosterone. An estimated 30% to 87% of men with bilateral orchitis induced by mumps experience full-blown infertility—a major cause for concern given the significant declines in male fertility observed over the past several decades. Thus, it appears that Merck’s vaccine, instead of protecting children, not only delays onset of disease to later age cohorts but has the potential to cause serious and permanent injury.

@Micheal O’Cleirigh: The science denier posts more nonsense.

@SteoG: stop prententing we know you have little understanding of the topic so you resort to childish name calling burden of ..yawn etc etc

@Micheal O’Cleirigh: I don’t claim any special knowledge of the subject. You do though and it’s obvious that you have not got a breeze. You wallow around posting nonsense from anti scientific anti vaxx sources and ask people stupid questions.

@SteoG: Where you making a point. ( clue) if you do not understand the question……

@Micheal O’Cleirigh: Where is a place.
I understand perfectly. It is the fact that you stupidly and ignorantly address a question to someone who accepts the medical and scientific evidence but hasn’t claimed to be an immunology expert. The fact that you constantly seem to waffle with your copy and paste nonsense from a spurious anti scientific source. Not forgetting of course that you don’t understand terms like credible evidence, scientific and you don’t understand burden of proof. So the evidence clearly shows that it is you that has a complete lack of understanding of the subject in question.

@Mirabelle Stonegate: Yeah and?

What in your comment disputes anything I wrote?

Vaccines HAVE saved MILLIONS of lives.

And everyone should have their children vaccinated (as long as those children can be safely vaccinated).

@Tricia G: Think you’ll find it was plumbing and access to clean and healthy food and water that saved millions of lives Tricia not vaccines.

@Colie Mac: Nonsense. Those things contribute to health however they will not prevent you from getting Polio, Tetanus, TB, smallpox and the myriad of other diseases vaccination prevent.

@Mirabelle Stonegate: No, they’re not. Neither are seat belts, and if you know you’re going to crash I’m sure you’d agree only a fool wouldn’t put one on their child because they’re not 100% effective.

@Colie Mac: Oh would you take you anti-vaxxer BS somewhere else.

People like you cause children to suffer and die.

@Fozz: is that how they work? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGsm0c7-aGA

@Mirabelle Stonegate: Imagine Adults getting childhood diseases what have they created?

@Tricia G: What I’m finding with many pro-vaxxers, is that they automatically assume that any child developing a disease for which there is a vaccine, has never been vaccinated.

We don’t know how many of those reported to have gotten mumps were fully vaccinated. Therefore everyone needs to stop assuming that these outbreaks are wholly down to anti-vaxxers…something your comment is kinda doing.

BTW, I’m very much in favour of vaccines, however I’ve had multiple occasions where I’ve mentioned getting measles as a kid, and then getting slammed and abused for being an anti-vax kid…when I’m not.

@Micheal O’Cleirigh: Not sure why you’re talking about adults..

Also, most of these diseases aren’t solely childhood diseases. It was more a case of, pre-vaccination, children were one of the more likely groups to get many of these diseases for a number of reasons – all children are horrible little germ factories who are never clean, no matter how hard their parents try.. children are more likely to end up in the vicinity of those who are ill, such as through schools, and also, a child’s immune system isn’t as fully developed as an adult’s.

So, an adult getting something like mumps isn’t getting a “childhood disease”…they’re getting mumps.

@Tricia G: Tricia if that is the case why has the country with the largest vaccine schedule and one of the highest uptakes of vaccinations The United States of America got the highest infant mortality rates.

Now you can go down the causation doesn’t equal correlation route on that one. Which is grand, that could well be the case. But when you look at the countries with the lowest infant mortality rates, these countries just so happen to have the smallest vaccine schedules for children.

Uncanny how that is. So what is it ? Vaccine cause Adults….except amazingly in this situation logic will tell you that clearly ain’t happening. The more vaccines the higher the infant mortality rate. Less vaccines lower infant mortality.

Ps that’s Western World btw, so comparing apples with apples.

@Colie Mac: Every single word of that post is just childish nonsense. You are a guitar plucker who has no knowledge of science or medicine. You don’t understand that credible evidence is required to make a claim.

@Fozz: Tell me more about your understanding of herd immunity Fozz, I’m interested to learn more. Here’s what I have: we know measles outbreaks occur in schools with more than 98% vaccination cover
(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646939/) and even 99% mandatory vaccine cover (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3821823). So what’s the thinking here in terms of vaccine-induced herd immunity? Force everyone to get it twice? It’s just studies show that even 2 doses of measles vaccine may fail to provide measles-specific neutralising antibodies (Vaccine 2011 June; 27(29):4485-91). In fact, as we learned below, from 2003-2017 in Northern Ireland, 92% of mumps cases were in people that got the MMR twice.

So, your understanding of herd immunity, go for it

@Wheresmyjumper: vaxxers give measles to vaxxers by spreading their secretions post vaccination. Did your doctor not warn you?

Medical Advisory Committee of the Immune Deficiency Foundation, Shearer WT, Fleisher TA, et al. Recommendations for live viral and bacterial vaccines in immunodeficient patients and their close contacts. J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2014;133(4):961–966. doi:10.1016/j.jaci.2013.11.043

@Pete Byrne: That’s not how vaccines work…

You can only spread a disease when you are infectious with said disease.. Vaccines, however, do NOT make you infectious, even if they use live forms. That is because those live forms have been modified to remove the infectious nature.

@Mirabelle Stonegate: I get it, you’re a vaxxer, you don’t read or can’t understand scientific articles and prefer it to be fed to you by secondary sources but if you could just summon the strength to read the first paragraph of that piece I attached and then respond

@Colie Mac: Spreading dangerous propaganda that can literally lead to children dying should be challenged and it’s reach reduced.

You are not entitled to a platform on a privately owned website .

No one is stopping you going off and sharing your opinions on a street corner.

@SteoG: unsubstantiated slogans and never anything of evidential worth in terms of rebuttal.

You’re a desperate man, Steo.

@SteoG: This has nothing to do with Wakefield. It is FrankinScience. Adults getting Mumps!! N. Ireland ( Page 19) The majority of cases were 15-24 years (63%; 120/191) (Figure 9). The majority of cases (92%) had received two doses of MMR vaccine https://www.publichealth.hscni.net/sites/default/files/2019-01/Annual%20VPDs%20Report%20for%20NI%202018%20%282017%20data%29.pdf

@Micheal O’Cleirigh: Mr Corr why did you not study science instead of music? Anti vaxxers are spawned by Wakefield. So it has everything to do with him.

@Micheal O’Cleirigh: Have you never heard of diseases mutating?

I’m of the opinion that another side of this rise in diseases subject to vaccination (separate to the anti-vax movement), is that some of these diseases are starting to mutate to become resilient to the current vaccines.

Think about it – the flu vaccine has to be taken every year, because there are so many different strains, and it’s constantly mutating. This is a very common illness, so there are constantly lots of chances for it to mutate and develop resilience.

On the other hand, take something like mumps. It is nowhere near as prevalent, and never was (yes, it was widespread, but not to the extent of the ‘flu). Therefore, there were only a small number of common strains that infected people, making it easier to develop a long-lasting vaccine. However, given enough time, all organisms mutate and evolve.. so who’s to say that the strains of mumps we’re seeing now, aren’t ones that have evolved to successfully fight the vaccine?

BTW, I’m definitely not discounting anti-vaxxers. I just don’t believe they are 100% the problem. Viral and bacterial mutations also make a lot of sense to me.

@Rob Porter: Shouldn’t you be doing your homework. When you are an adult you can join in the adult conversation. Until then.

@Mirabelle Stonegate: as regarding the mumps vaccine the science says it MAY be waning immunity but it is noteworthy that Merck are currently in court whistleblower case with claims of fraud .GSK are appear to be in a hurry to make a new MMR but truals appear to look bad thus far. And yes mutent strains and weaking cell line certainly is a concern.

@Micheal O’Cleirigh: Assertions, Assertions you are a fraud and a liar. Not one bit of credible scientific evidence for the nonsense you assert.

@Mirabelle Stonegate: You’re spot on, they do mutate (recombination), which is another argument against over-vaccination

“The very vaccines used to prevent a respiratory disease in chickens caused several recent outbreaks of the same disease at farms across Australia, according to a report published today (July 12) in Science. Different weakened versions of a live herpes virus used in the vaccines exchanged portions of their genomes, resulting in virulent, disease-causing strains. This suggests that such in-the-field genetic recombination is more common than previously thought, and has implications for both animal and human health.”

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/when-vaccines-turn-vicious-40743

@SteoG:Not Assertions and there is scientific evidence,,but I am not sure you would be up to understanding it. ( Have you read the trial data on the new MMR?- not on the market yet)

@Micheal O’Cleirigh: That’s an unreal stat that “2003-2017: The majority of mumps cases (92%) had received two doses of MMR vaccine”. And not a single “vaxxer” (people that refuse to question any aspect of our vaccination program at any stage ever) bats an eye lid.

Isn’t it funny how vaxxers scream about science but rarely use it. Somebody needs to do a study where comments are analysed as being a) pro or questioning vaccines and b) if a peer reviewed study was used to back up their statement

@Micheal O’Cleirigh: You don’t know what scientific evidence is. You have read some quacks opinion and then copy and paste it here. Pseudo science is not science.

@Rob Porter: Not sure why you feel entitled to have your nonsense broadcast on a privately owned website. There’s plenty of anti-science echo chambers around the net run by simpo’s who’d be only too happy to entertain your utter tripe.

@SteoG: thats your opinion Steo, I just don’t agree with it. And it’s OK. You saying people that question some aspects of a vaccination program in a scientific world so polluted by big pharna the editors of the world’s more peer reviewed scientific journals reckon perhaps half of the peer reviewed evidence is blatantly false, seems unreasonable to me. But I wouldn’t want you silenced, your unsupported trumpisms might be right now and again.