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TODAY’S RECALL OF the Seanad proves the worth of the institution and shows the role a reformed upper house can have, a Fianna Fáil senator has said.
Ned O’Sullivan said that the Seanad debate over transplant legislation represented the function that the Seanad could have in debating and approving European directives and legislation.
“This will go down as an important day in the survival of the Seanad, which has become in my opinion, a reality.
“I think it is a shame that the Taoiseach didn’t let us fill the lacuna between European legislation and statutory instruments, where you have so much being signed off on and rubber stamped without being looked.
Instead he ran off on a populist idea, a mad idea of abolition that I think will blow up in his face.
O’Sullivan paid tribute to the Irish Kidney Association for using their nominee, Senator Mark Daly, to “put a motion on the floor”.
“The IKA used their right to have a motion put on the floor and that is real democracy. This has been a very important exercise.”
No it doesn’t prove its worth.
It proves, as has been said, that this debate has already taken place on organ donation, & that this is a stunt.
Generous allowances all round, no doubt, for showing up in holidays (double time?).
What a circus.
I’m voting yes.
Give me 5 reasons why you are voting yes to abolition ?
“Generous allowances all round, no doubt, for showing up in holidays (double time?).”
That is completely incorrect. This recall will not cost the taxpayer a cent.
Only 5? Okay.
1. It’s undemocratic. Majority of population don’t get to vote.
2. Taoiseach’s 11. For double failures and lickarses.
3. Ronan Mullen.
4. Fidelma Health Eames
5. My democratic right as a voter.
1. David Norris
2. Ivana Bacik
3. Fidelma Healy Eames
4. Ronan Mullen
5. All FF Senators
I could go on and on but there are 5 damn good reasons to scrap this muppet show.
@Fiachra….so you can put your hand on heart and tell me that not one senator is going to make a claim for mileage and subsistence for their days “work”. Who are you trying to kid.
Thanks for that ridiculous answer well done obviously nothing working to hard up stairs!!!
@Oliver…typical retort from the clown prince of FF…I believe you have already set a precedent for cyber bullying too…keep up the personal insults…it really enhances your argument!
“Thanks for that ridiculous answer well done obviously nothing working to hard up stairs!!!”
LOL @ IMF Boy. That’s hilarious coming from someone who is a member of probably the most corrupt/incompetent organisation that has ever been afflicted on this country. And what’s more, he wears it like a badge of honour.
@Daisy
1. Reform it to general elections, preferably mid-term in the Dáil so that the people could elect counterweight to any rough-riding government of the day
2. See 1, Reform it to get rid of panel-based and political appointees, once and for all
3. See 1, how would Mullan fair in a selected super-constituency, over the NUI constituency
4. See 1, 2 and 3
5. See 1
@Frank
These are just names. You could get rid of 90% the Dáil seats under that logic.
Reform can address both of your concerns
@John…well said. For someone who obviously has a few screws loose to question someone elses mental capacity is a tad ironic don’t ya think…a little too ironic yeah I really do think…It’ like rain…..
Sorry…couldn’t help myself there. :-)
@Ronan…instead of highlighting its usefulness, todays political stunt proves just what a waste of taxpayers money the Seanad is. I’m not saying a debate around the issue of organ donation is a waste of time, but come on, even you have to admit it could have waited a few more weeks until the Seanad are back from their extended holidays. Instead, todays stunt will cost the taxpayer how much in travel and subsistence????
@Ronan Ah yes, this mythical 3rd choice on the ballot paper – “Reform Senate”. In an ideal world this could be a good option, if the reform was done by non-politicians. We might actually end up with something that works and is of some use to the country. But let’s face it Ronan, can you honestly see that happening?
It’s a moot point in any case – it’s won’t be an option on the ballot. The choices are 1) Retain Senate (and by extension, the status quo) or 2) Abolish Senate.
FF Senator Marc Sharry and his ten minute speech about pis5ing on the walls of the house. I feel worried knowing that he walks the streets never mind legislates.
John,
This is fair enough, but consider that the entire law making mechanism of the state must change if you remove the senate. We haven’t seen the plan for a unicameral legislature, it hasn’t been shared with us, and I see putting this kind of power into the government’s hands as unwise.
Reform will be slow, but must in my opinion come without taking a cleaver to our system of governance, which is precisely what this referendum proposes.
John, proposals for reform could be done as part of the Constitutional Convention. Their work on the 8 named matters is due to finish in later in the year, and they have dates in November and December set aside to deal with any other issues they wish to look at. Seanad reform would be a perfect fit for the Convention. What’s more it’s up to them to determine what should be looked at, so the Government doesn’t have a role in saying if they should or shouldn’t propose reform.
Ronán, that’s my concern about the abolition of the Seanad. I’m not against the idea of just having one House of the Oireachtas, but if we’re getting rid of the Seanad, the Dáil will also have to undergo significant reforms. So far, the Govt’s track record on Dáil reform has been, by their own admission poor, and they haven’t set out any concrete plans for how it will be reformed post abolition.
Travel expenses aren’t the same as generous allowances and double pay. But I take your point. The recall of the Seanad will cost the taxpayer just the same amount as every other sitting – very little.
The others beat me to it, & I echo their responses, but I’ll add the single one which summarizes it for me :
We can’t afford it, from a cost/benefit perspective.
Not to mention Ivor Callely..I know he’s gone..but the stench remains.
@Fiachra….tell that to the family who are struggling to put food on the table for their children. At a minimum todays little sideshow will cost the taxpayer around €10,000. Now that might be very little in your utopian world, but to hundreds of thousands of families all across the land, that is a hell of a lot of money. The fact of the matter is that this debate could have waited for another few weeks when it would have cost the taxpayer sweet f**k all!
it’s great to see the IMF want to keep it now ; thats one reason to abolish.
2. it will spring an immediate general election ; under aricle 6 ;people power
3. they voted for the prom deal.
4. they voted for the bank guarantee
5. their language is appalling and demeaning
6. they have refused to use article 27.4 to force real change themselves
7. all of the above and they consistently ignore the Irish constitution
8. a senator has rarely if ever tested the constitutionality of laws under article 15.4
9. they are by and large a gang of yes men and women
10. The current seanaqd is illegal because its register of electors is illegal; I am entitled to a vote and never received a polling card and am as such denied my franchise !
@Fiachra…just saw there that you are an intern at Seanad Eireann. Explains it all really. Your daddy must have some good connections in the right places to swing that one for you. No wonder you are championing for the retention of the waste of money that is The Muppet Show…sorry I meant to say Seanad Eireann.
It’s ‘too’ not ‘to’ get your own stuff working upstairs first!
i think downstairs is in charge of upstairs in a lot of cases !
Do the members of the Seanad think the people of this country are complete ejits to fall for this scam. Get a real job boys!
Just scrap it and be done.
REFORM not abolition.
Most people calling for abolition are either Fine Gael or lobbyist shrills or they are ill-informed public who are falling for the propaganda of reducing democracy and pushing centralised government run by technical committee of a few ministers.
Democracy is in the hands of the people if they only realized it. Not in the hands of a retirement home for failed politicos and wannabes like Mr. Daly. I look forward to the day we can say a collective good riddance to this useless waste of taxpayers money.
Abolish the bloody thing ASAP.
You have to abolish before you reform. People power no political appointies shud be considered the irish people 100 % of them shud decide now the chosen few!
Sorry should!
@Paul Mc. Surely reform before abolishment would be the correct route to take, instead of ridding it forever. Have independent senators on reduced salaries who are elected by the people regularly. If we allow the lower house a free for all, who do you think will act as a watchdog to protect the people. The Irish media seem to sing from the same hymn sheet so surely not them. Anywho, Enda and co. may be in a right state to get the Seanad abolished saying its as a waste of time and expensive, yet we are being run by Europe anyway so if we’re getting rid of one, sure , might as well gut the whole pig and get rid of the other and save (I think) somewhere around €60 million annually.
No freeloaders pure and simple yes we need a 2nd chamber but every citizen must have a vote not just the elete?
Oh yeah. Debating something that was signed into law a year ago really shows the relevancy of this undemocratic talking shop for failed politicians!
All it proves is what a waste of money the Seanad is. This was a meaningless debate that could have waited a few weeks until our great Senators got back from their extended summer holidays. Instead FF pulled off a political stunt and as per usual it is the taxpayer who will have to foot the bill for all the senators mileage and subsistence allowances for their days “work”. Scrap this muppet show ASAP.
One for the history books….. The rats refusing to leave the sinking ship….
green thumb this if you have a N.U.I. degree and didn’t get to vote in the Seanad election last time out !
excelllent only needed one to declare the current Dail Illegal ; call in the U.N. vote monitors Michael D.
Michael d. ? MICHAEL D. …WAKEY WAKEY ARE YOU STONED OR WHAT ?
From Ned o’Sullivan’s Wikipedia Page:
“In June 2011, it was revealed that 3,600 premium line votes from a phone in Leinster House at a cost of €2,600 to the Irish taxpayer helped Michael Healy-Rae win Celebrities Go Wild in 2007.[5] O’Sullivan admitted making “around a dozen” calls and texts to support Healy-Rae after being asked to do so by Healy-Rae’s campaign manager.[6]
Another Fianna Fáil grub eating from and crapping on our democracy.
excellent post Dylan ; they think they are so smart ; is this evidence enough to get a refund on my t.v. licence I wonder ; I only pay it for the documentaries on tg4 and bbc 4.. !
Have the members bar also being opened or are senators being forced to get drunk in the public bar. Tune in to the Seanad Éireann see for yourself how many are debating legislation that has already being passed. Ned O’Sullivan had no problem using taxpayer money to help Michael Healy-Rae win Celebrities Go Wild back in 2007. how many calls out of the 3,600 premium line call did he make himself. I am surprised those senators that turned up are not wearing silk ties paid for by the taxpayer. If this is all the Seanad can offer is way of getting us out of a crisis cause by mismanagement by politicians and those the appointed to be regulators. Fianna fail is truly a party that can be trusted to but the interest of the country before party politics.
44 voted ; there are 66 senators ; abolish and then we have an election which is what none of those 200 sleeveens want !
election immediately !
FF’s stance on the organ donation thing is just a ruse.
They are agnostic on the abolition of the Seanad. I suspect Martin is probably in favour of getting rid of it but would gladly play politics to see Enda get a bloody nose, since this is his baby.
Smart move would be to stay out of it.
Budget talk will be at fever pitch by the time this referendum comes around, I think there’ll be enough of an anti-government vote to kill it.
ronan ; do you realise that if the people vote to abolish the seanad they completely tie the hands of the government in terms of austerity measures for the people will have decided to delay austerity for the 66 senators and under the democratic and equality principles of the Irish Constitution that means delaying austerity for everyone !
Furthermore if the Dail break this principle they are immediately springing the citizen’s right to immediately abolish the seanad and thus dissolve the dail as the dail will be an illegal entity under the new constitution that the people have ammended !
I shall be standing in the forthcoming election under the banner of “Farmer’s opposing Globalisation “
Where was all this unwavering dedication to service 3, 4 or even 5 years ago. Weather it’s reformed or abolished the showboating that’s been going on is a pathetic attempt to save their skins..once an Irish politician always one.
And they’re off again on holidays until the 18th of Sept… Sure we’ll keep them
I’m all for keeping and reforming the seanad but by that I also mean getting rid of the old boys club that exists today. Difficult, I know, with huge payoffs etc., but no senator (who should be elected by the people and have due and relevant qualifications for their position) should have any political affiliations to any party.
Dream on Neddy, dream on. :-D
Too late senate time to go u had your chance
have your say