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A PROPOSAL THAT members of the Seanad be given a short period to reflect in silence before the daily prayer will be heard today.
The proposal is from the Seanad committee on procedures and privileges and is that a short period of silent reflection would take place at the commencement of sitting every day in the Seanad just before the prayer.
Senator Ivana Bacik said that she strongly welcomes the introduction of “this small change to the proceedings” at the commencement of the Order of Business in the Seanad.
This change originated in a proposal to replace the prayer with a period of silence that I made to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges some months ago, but is based upon a compromise suggested by Senator Ronan Mullen. It was agreed unanimously by the Committee last week. I very much hope that the Seanad will adopt it unanimously today.
If the approval is agreed, part of the wording of Standing Order 18 would change from “all Senators present shall stand and” to “all Senators present shall stand for 30 seconds of silent reflection and then”.
She said the inclusion of a short period of silent reflection “provides a way for us to acknowledge the presence in the chamber and outside of those who are not of the Christian faith, who are of minority religions, or those who do not profess to be members of any religion”.
It recognises that Ireland has become more pluralist, just as the inclusion of a Humanist ceremony within the Presidential Inauguration celebrations marked a similar recognition.
Sen Bacik said she sees it “as an important step forward in creating a more tolerant and inclusive society”.
Though Sen Bacik would personally prefer to see the prayer replaced altogether by a period of silent reflection, she believes this is the most inclusive approach.
However changing the Seanad standing orders to include a period of silent reflection at least provides some recognition of the presence in Ireland of many communities from different religious and non-religious traditions, and provides a starting-point for greater inclusivity in our parliamentary procedures.
Other bodies such as the Stormont Assembly and Dublin City Council have the same approach of a period of silence before prayer.
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Christ almighty have they nothing else to be working on? Do some work yiz gobshites
Funny how the only two jobs in Ireland where you start the day with a prayer are the religious orders and the government. All the rest of us get a cup of coffee and get the feck on with it…
Shame it hasn’t been recognised that religion is and should be a personal matter/lifestyle and should not drive an entire nation state and all it’s myriad of citizens
It should be removed altogether. Public prayer is not Christian anyways. If Christians actually read their bible, they would know that.
The same way as if anyone read the bible they would know it has nothing got to do with morality.
What the bloody hell has praying got to do with running the country?? Oh hold on a sec…
Don’t tell me they can claim for a daily prayer allowance, as well.
Ivana get my name in the news
You seriously would wonder at times if politicians really do have any sense of connection with the people.
Do they honestly expect credit from the public when they see them debating such petty items while Rome burns!
How do they think these petty items will be perceived by the public ?
Prayer? What? I object strongly to senators wasting time with this kind of cultish behaviour when they are on the clock. If you want to practice some ancient middle eastern goat herder rituals then do it on your own time.
What a load of shite. There should be none prayer at all. Or maybe we should all be paid to pray at work.
an absolute joke. the sooner the seanad is gotten rid of the better!
The people as law makers ?
http://www.realrepublic.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=125&Itemid=237
Much we prefer we keep the Seanad and dump the Church :-)
Typo: ignore first ‘we’
Ha ha …. This is just too funny …
God Rest Frank Carson , but he would get such a laugh outta this one …
What a joke. When I go to work the office doesn’t stand for a poxy prayer. Do your jobs u idiots and stop wasting time. There should be no prayer or moments silence. This is ridiculous.
who voted this lady tothe senate. NO ONE/ also when will we hava a vote to get rid of some of the hangers on like her slef
Why can’t the Christian members feck off to church to pray? I’m sick to the teeth of seeing ‘Christian’ members of our government pull strokes, lie and cheat and and then pander to the moral code of a religious belief to further underline their hypocrisy!
And true Christian believers think that’s the way it should stay?
The Christian religion is under such attack from the liars, cheats, paedophiles and criminals in it’s ranks that you would think that prayers from the mouths of these reprobates would be an insult to their beliefs, but there you go…!
the daily prayer? is the seanad run by a religious order or is it a democratically elected body, oh wait, its neither
The idea of a Republic is the complete separation of Church and State. The fact that Catholics see religious neutrality as an attack on their religion shows just how deep Catholic culture has affected Ireland. I think most of Ireland recognises this but as usual our politicians are lagging behind. The Fianna Failers Republican Party slogan is yet another lie. I believe Ronan Mullin etc is entitled to his opinion but please don’t use the word nationalist or republican. I know he is an independent but the Fianna Fail old crowd are similar. You are willing to sacrifice your allegiance to the people of Ireland for that of Roman Catholicism.
Actually the idea of a republic is government by the people and not by a monarch. A republic may or may not have a complete Church-State separation, but this issue is not inherent in the concept of a republic.
Almar a Republic values all its citizens equally. Pushing religion down peoples throats is not a genuine Republic. You are taking your idea of a Republic from Iran. To value all the citizens equally you would need a Hindu, Islamic, Buddhist and Atheist tributes. We behave like a banana Republic when we act like this in our national assemblies. It is how our Catholic masters taught us and they were anything but Republic.
Cyril, What did the Romans ever do for us?
Well apart from the drains and and such like there’s Republics, Senates and then all that praying…!
I’m a FF member and I support complete separation of Church and State, otherwise we’re not a true Republic
Do you do any church gate collections Stephen?
Senator Bacik sees this move as a ‘step forward’ in making Ireland more tolerant. The next step would presumably see a complete removal of the prayer which would, ironically, be intolerant of the views, traditions and heritage of Christian members of the chamber. So, as usual, Ms. Bacik seems to want ‘tolerance’, but only on her terms.
I don’t see what is wrong with making praying a personal, private act, at the discretion of the individual. Why should it be imposed on everyone? It is also particularly inappropriate in a government setting, a government which is supposed to, um govern over an increasingly multicultural society.
It is a throwback to an older time of Church=State, and we do not want to go back to that.
I thin her point is that the prayer is, as it curerntly stands, is Catholic/Christian. If prayer is to be included, surely it should cover all religions. In which case, what do you do about those of no religion? I fully appreciate the value and impact of prayer and spirituality but it is unfair that a Government of a pluralist society should focus on the prayer of just *part* of that society. Those with a faith and to whom prayer is important are probably already praying, so why is it necessary in this particular workplace?
Talking to your imaginary friend, and expecting everyone else to do likewise, on the State’s time, is a tradition we can do without.
We pay TDs and Senators to work. We pay them quite a lot of money to work, in fact, far more than in any other state. Nobody’s telling them they have to all be atheists; but it’d be kindof nice if they spent their working day, you know, actually working…
Another reason to shut down the seanad. If there stupid enough to believe in religion then there too stupid to be making laws
The country was a better place when families, friends and workplaces got together to pray. The place has fallen apart since people have turned their back on spirituality. Maybe it’s time to start praying again as it costs nothing and gives so much back. Open your minds, hearts and souls.
Yes, I’m sure prayer time was a very special time in the Magdelene Laundries and Industrial Schools. Probably a short break from the beatings at least.
Personally I want to see this prayer and reflection time docked pro-rata from the salaries of our elected representatives. Pray on your own time.
Yes indeed 1950′s Ireland was so much better in that golden age of Catholicism, modern, forward thinking, economically successful, treating all its citizens and young people with love and respect.
We should totally go back to that.
Liz, I’d much prefer to help fix the place with real actions rather then asking “god” to fix up the place for us.
Besides, I miss my lie ins on Sundays.
It really is depressing that young adults are still getting caught up in this cult.
Saying a prayer before they start their daily proceedings! WHY?, to WHO exactly are they praying? God?, which one? Why are these muppets even wasting time on this nonsense in the first place. If they believe in God(s) then can’t they do it on their own time, before they even go anywhere near the Seanad, it’s not like there aren’t any churches etc around the place, or maybe they could do it in their office. Religion has no place in politics and the waste of space that is the Seanad should at least try to give the tax payer a modicum of value for money instead of murmuring invocations to some fantasy deity. Whilst their at it they can write a letter to Santa Claus!
“Dear Lord, give me the courage to admit to the people of Ireland that I am in fact paid a fortune to do bugger all, that I make no contribution whatsoever to the economic, social or political viability of the country. But God, don’t give me the courage just yet, wait ’til I’ve clocked up a really decent lump sum and gotten enough publicity to successfully run for Europe; then I can milk that gravy train. Amen”
I know a gravy train farmer, he doesn’t milk them though, uses them for Eu grants.
I know a mixed metaphor farmer…
I’m an atheist, thank God.
I think the gobshites might be praying for some sort of divine intervention,
Why can’t they leave it at a moments silence and reflection. why can’t those who want to pray do it silently during the moment of reflection?
Why does our government need to recite a set of spells and chants before starting work?
They should replace the 30 seconds silence with 30 seconds of argument in favour of continuing the Seanad; I’d be surprised if they could fill 10 seconds. Ivana Batshit and the rest of that shower of useless unelected wasters should GTFO and stop wasting our time and money.
They should replace the prayer with the pause for reflection and be done with it.
Perhaps they could extend the period of silent reflection to 9 hours a day and let us all share the peace.
Fair play to the Seanad, another radical strategic brainwave that is going to sort out the social welfare problems in Ireland, reduce hospital beds waiting times.. your a waste of hardworking taxpayers euros.
I learnt something new today. They pray in the Seanad. Nice. Is there any other country with prayers held in a parliament? Similarly, there are prayers in public-funded schools – a thing unheard of in rest of Europe. European Court of Human Rights has outlawed crucifixes in public schools. It’s now not only bigoted but simply illegal. This is very wrong and I wonder how many decades and sexual scandals are required to send religions in Ireland where they belong – to churches and private homes?
Its progress in that it at least acknowledges that there exists a sizable number of us who do not adhere to catholic and christian beliefs, a number that is growing all the time. But religious and spiritual beliefs are private matters and should not intrude into the workings of a Parliament of a Republic.
I would also like to see the same approach taken in the Dail, a suggestion put forward by Labour’s Aodhan O’Riordain recently.
praying? and them robbing us and lieing through their teeth but sure they might be better to waste thrir hole day praying for all theire doing
Silent reflection is as much bullshit as the prayers.
The Seanad, my synopsis, a brunch party circus playground comprising of washed up uneducated relics or never made the cut so called politicians or oiled / teflon skinned clowns (Callely comes to mind) given an expensive leather chair and a Dail basement soapbox to preach to us about controlling viable and necessary circus legislation that brought our country up to its waist in backhanders, brown envelopes and Bull****.
If they require 30 secs to reflect, they should reflect on their own justification, performance, their accountability , actual work completed and what it acheived and do a simple X by Y comparison of these metrics against the disgusting pay and allowances these useless shower receive. I work in an aggressive meritocratic business, If I don’t perform and I pay the price. Todays statement from the Seanad just empitomises how so far off the pulse of the irish people these clowns are. This is my second blog today .. I wont be commenting anymore because anger acheives nothing and these clowns will still claiming 50+ cent to the mile on expenses tomorrow.
Ivanna Beateedee :(
Seriously?!
That’s exactly what they’re proposing!
Sounds like a very good inclusive compromise to me. Thumbs up for pluralism.
One must have one’s reflection & prayers before commencing the order of ones business in the chambers! Why a session in chambers in the absence of the appropriate spiritual pre commencements is much like a bad merlot; heavy, dull & frightfully dreary.
The country is is crisis, half a million on the dole, and Labour Party worrying about 30 seconds of silence. I dont know whats worse, that 30 seconds of silence or it being given column inches!!! :-(
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