Advertisement

We need your help now

Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.

You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.

If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.

Element Pictures

Why the conversation around Normal People's sex scenes shows how Ireland has changed

The issue of consent is to the forefront – and the complaints are at a minimum.

SALLY ROONEY’S SECOND novel Normal People became a bestseller after its release – and now the TV adaptation is making headlines across Ireland, Europe and the US.

While there have been articles dedicated to everything from whether the series will bring back the ‘jock’ to TV, to people’s obsession with the chain the character Connell wears, here in Ireland much focus has been put on the sex scenes in the series.

This week, an episode of Liveline on RTÉ Radio One was dedicated to the issue. But while some of the callers took issue with the frank depiction of sex between the two main characters, Marianne (Daisy Edgar-Jones) and Connell (Paul Mescal), what was notable was that the majority of the callers did not find fault with it.

The book and TV series depict the beginnings of a loving, consensual sexual relationship between Marianne and Connell (things get a little more complicated as the book progresses).

However, one complaint to LiveLine said that what was shown was “like something from a porno”. When asked by the show’s host Joe Duffy what could a person see in a ‘porno’, the caller replied that she didn’t know, as she’d never seen one.

Another caller criticised the TV show for depicting “fornication”. However, the majority of contributors praised Normal People for its depiction of consent between two teenagers as they begin to explore their sexual relationship.

RTÉ said that it had not received any formal complaints about the series so far, but had been contacted by members of the public about the episode’s content:

There were no formal complaints made to RTÉ in relation to Normal People. We received 37 pieces of feedback from the public, made before and after broadcast, expressing unhappiness and disappointment with the content of the episode.
It is worth noting that there was a hugely positive response from our viewers on social media.

Call-in shows like Liveline might not always capture the full breadth of opinions on a topic, but they do shed light on how controversial a TV show or movie is.

That people are exercised enough to phone a radio station shows that there is definitely a level of disquiet there. But the reaction to Normal People also showed that attitudes towards sex and nudity on Irish TV have most certainly changed.

Donald Clarke, film critic with the Irish Times, told TheJournal.ie what happened in 1978, when a naked woman was shown on an episode of the RTÉ show Spike.

“It was fascinating – I was very young at the time but old enough to remember it all happening. Spike was a TV series set in a Dublin school – a rough kitchen sink drama – and it trundled along fine and got respectable reviews and viewership. Until there was an episode with David Kelly playing an art teacher. The crucial difficulty was he had a life class and brought in a nude woman,” said Clarke. “They didn’t show her fully frontally nude – she pressed her body to a frosted glass sheet through which she was viewed.”

That one scene became national news. “The show was taken off air and questions were asked in the Dáil. People were phoning up the radio stations furiously – but what was even then notable was this was not the first time there had been nudity on RTÉ,” said Clarke. There had already been films, like Billy Wilder’s Avanti, which showed some nudity on the station.

“But what disturbed people – and this brings us forward to the current kerfuffle – was it was an Irish girl who had done this,” pointed out Clarke. “And nobody really minded that much [about the other incidents], there were occasional complaints here and there, but it didn’t become a proper scandal until this happened.”

Another show that came under criticism – but for a different reason – was Executive Suite in 1976, a glossy soap opera which ran for one season. “Its only claim to fame was in Ireland there was an episode broadcast, which as I recall had a warning, that had an abortion in it. One of the characters had an abortion – it wasn’t shown. That was sufficient to have the series cancelled. That was enough in itself to have RTÉ take a deep breath and cancel the series. That wasn’t about decency, it was a political issue, an issue about approaching morality.”

But by the 1980s, things had started to change. “Like a lot of things in Ireland, the 60s didn’t happen until the 80s,” said Clarke. Things changed again after the millennium. 

One of the most important moves was John Kelleher’s installation as Film Censor in 2003, succeeding Sheamus Smith. It wasn’t long before Kelleher’s appointment that Quentin Tarantino’s From Dusk Till Dawn and Oliver Stone’s Natural Born Killers fell foul of the censor and were banned from being shown in Ireland. 

A pivotal moment, said Clarke, was when Kelleher granted an 18 certificate to Michael Winterbottom’s film Nine Songs, which featured real sex in it, in 2004. Censorship in Ireland had reached a new age. 

“That was itself [important], but what was as important was that it wasn’t a huge sandal; it wasn’t on the front pages,” said Clarke – who, for the record, didn’t give the film a very good review, but not because of the sexual content. 

When Winterbottom appeared on the Late Late Show, the detractors in the audience who complained about the film “certainly seemed like the outsiders, whereas 20, 30 years previously they would not have been seen like that – it would have seemed like equal debate”, said Clarke.

Clarke saw a reflection of that in this week’s Liveline discussion. While Joe Duffy was as patient as ever, he wasn’t afraid of gently steering them away when the contributors were bringing up unrelated topics (like abortion), or pointing out fallacies in what they were saying. The complainants were also not in the majority. 

“That demonstrates what has changed so much since 1978, where in the Spike coverage there were very few people who were turning up on public media to make the case for it. It felt they were putting their head above the parapet if they did. Now people who have conservative attitudes, it does feel like they’re putting their head above the parapet,” said Clarke.

“It demonstrates a real shift in attitude.”

Consent

That shift in attitude is also demonstrated by the positive reaction to Rooney’s depiction of consensual sex.

The issue of consent is one that has been to the fore in the past few years, with some colleges introducing consent classes. So Normal People’s take on things was welcomed by Orla O’Connor, director of the National Women’s Council of Ireland, who told TheJournal.ie:

Consent and mutual enjoyment really should be the benchmark for how sex and relationships are shown on television, and we are seeing in recent days what a positive impact the simple portrayal of consent on Normal People is having. Consent is active enthusiastic, ongoing and mandatory in real life, approaching sex scenes in this way is something we must expect from all televisions shows.

These sentiments were echoed by Noeline Blackwell of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre, who said that they “would join in the general applause for the centrality of consent to the sex scenes”.

“We get asked a lot about how it’s possible to communicate consent without killing the joy – as if it wasn’t really possible,” she said.

“This adaptation is showing how it is possible to communicate about consent, how to check in with your partner. I find it striking that they approach their love and desire as equals – that’s why it looks so consensual.”

Dr Caroline West, a lecturer and writer on sexuality studies, said that the discussions around Normal People on social media “have been fascinating”.

“Many people have expressed a kind of shock in seeing sex depicted in such a gentle, consensual way,” she said. “However this shock isn’t surprising if we bear in mind that we are used to onscreen portrayals of sex that are divisive, such as in mainstream porn, or in Hollywood, which often does a poor job of including conversations about consent in sex scenes.”

For her, Normal People brings up more than just consent. “We have seen a discourse about kindness flourish in the past few months, and Normal People seems to tie into that,” she said.

“Good sex is sex that is consensual, respectful and mutually pleasurable. Kindness underlines these factors, and it feels like a relief to see this on our screens, especially when we need kindness in so many areas right now.”

Normal People continues on RTÉ One at 10.15pm on Tuesday 5 May. The show is also broadcast on BBC in the UK and Hulu in the USA.

Readers like you are keeping these stories free for everyone...
A mix of advertising and supporting contributions helps keep paywalls away from valuable information like this article. Over 5,000 readers like you have already stepped up and support us with a monthly payment or a once-off donation.

Close
70 Comments
This is YOUR comments community. Stay civil, stay constructive, stay on topic. Please familiarise yourself with our comments policy here before taking part.
Leave a Comment
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute thomas patrick
    Favourite thomas patrick
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:24 PM

    Say what you like about the government, but my opinion is that they have done a great job of keeping what is probably an anadequate ICU system from coming under too much pressure.

    478
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute michal heba
    Favourite michal heba
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:25 PM

    @thomas patrick: well, they did what the rest of the world did. Copy paste style of a job. No big achievement in that, people of Ireland did great job

    220
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Peter McGlynn
    Favourite Peter McGlynn
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:30 PM

    @thomas patrick: given their handling of health portfolio over 8 years they’ve had to be cautious.

    93
    See 15 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute thomas patrick
    Favourite thomas patrick
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:37 PM

    @michal heba: oh yeah? So why did they have to close car parks and walkways after a few weeks?
    The people of ireland were doing a great job of ignoring social distancing guidelines until they were strictly policed.

    74
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute thomas patrick
    Favourite thomas patrick
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:39 PM

    @Peter McGlynn: agreed…. but in this instance I think the results have been as positive as we could have hoped for as a people. And that’s not to disrespect people who lost loved ones.. but it could have been a lot worse

    27
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute michal heba
    Favourite michal heba
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:52 PM

    @thomas patrick: there is always some element of no cooperation… But in general its people and front staff did all the work. Politicians are still free to travel in government fleet etc.

    28
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Pád
    Favourite Pád
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:00 PM

    @thomas patrick:
    Don’t think the government done that. More likely it was the medical profession.

    18
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute thomas patrick
    Favourite thomas patrick
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:21 PM

    @Pád: yep . The medical profession provided the advice and the government acted. Not like Mr. Orange across the water.
    I’m only trying to inject a little bit of positivity in a place where it’s easy to bash people. Do any of us think we’d do a better job? Or even put ourselves forward for the job in the first place? I dont think so.
    And yes, absolute credit to the heroes on the front line more than anyone else

    44
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Derek Poutch
    Favourite Derek Poutch
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:29 PM

    @thomas patrick: Could of been a lot better too.

    16
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Toon Army
    Favourite Toon Army
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 8:12 PM

    @thomas patrick: On what basis have they done a great job? Only by looking at the media spun faux comparisons of Italy and UK. When you compare with most similar European countries or the likes of New Zealand you see what could have been possible with an effective strategy and some leadership. We fell some way short. We’ve done ok but it’s been in the absence of adequate leadership.

    15
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Toon Army
    Favourite Toon Army
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 8:25 PM

    @thomas patrick: What’s the relevance in comparing us to a continent of 330 million people and a totally different social set up? I don’t see it positive to constantly say we are doing somewhat better than the couple countries that have plundered globally and that have much larger denser populations. Why not look at what’s possible in the majority of Western European / Scandinavian countries or other similar island nations like New Zealand and believe we can do much better.

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Daniel Dunne
    Favourite Daniel Dunne
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 8:50 PM

    @thomas patrick: we are an island, we could have done way better. We could have achieved the same as NZ or Australia. The “Orange One” has a lower death per capita rate than us, and when this blows over you want someone like the “Orange One” to get your economy going full tilt and roaring again – he has a business head and those types will be nearly as important as the front line workers fighting this crisis in the certain recession ahead.

    13
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Gerald OBrien
    Favourite Gerald OBrien
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 10:12 PM

    @Daniel Dunne: Comparing NZ or the Aussies to Ireland is apples and oranges. They have very different flight traffic to a country like Ireland. They could be doing better, but the metric you have there isnt a good one. If you compare us to countries who do have similar traffic were doing pretty well. Equal to Netherlands, better than the UK for example. We’re way behind Germany, but when aren’t they the best at stuff like that in fairness. Credit where credits due.

    6
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Gerald OBrien
    Favourite Gerald OBrien
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 10:18 PM

    @Gerald OBrien: Also if you do the math America 328,000,000(population) / 67,000(deaths) = 4,800. So 1 death every 4,800. Ireland 4,900,000(population) / 1265(deaths) = 3873. Last time I checked 3873 is less than 4,800

    4
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute FecklessBear
    Favourite FecklessBear
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 10:22 PM

    @Gerald OBrien: Amsterdam and London are major global air travel hubs. How exactly does Ireland have similar flight traffic to the Netherlands and the UK?
    And you can bet Australia and NZ have far more frequent flights from China.
    You’re talking nonsense.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Paul O Neill
    Favourite Paul O Neill
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 10:43 PM

    @Gerald OBrien: your correct in saying we can’t compare to Aus & NZ as it’s been summer over there whilst it’s been winter in this part of the world, also Dublin airport is a major hub with 33 million passing through last year, add to that the school tours to Northern Italy, Cheltenham has effected us and also the Liverpool matches tying us in with the UK more than the rest so we equally can’t be compared to Scandinavia

    3
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jun Stone
    Favourite Jun Stone
    Report
    May 3rd 2020, 7:16 AM

    @thomas patrick: I agree, I think they did a brilliant job!

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Toon Army
    Favourite Toon Army
    Report
    May 3rd 2020, 8:53 AM

    @Gerald OBrien: lol. Similar traffic to London?

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mairead Jenkins
    Favourite Mairead Jenkins
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:24 PM

    That’s really good news. Now they need to get the health service back up and running generally, and start treating people in some of the 100s of empty beds.

    110
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jim Buckley Barrett
    Favourite Jim Buckley Barrett
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:32 PM

    @Mairead Jenkins: no one is stopping any one from attending the hospital where needed. It would seem in the past that a lot of people attending A&E, don’t need to.

    90
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Mairead Jenkins
    Favourite Mairead Jenkins
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:57 PM

    @Jim Buckley Barrett: I agree with you re A and E. What I meant was the horrendous waiting lists. Good chance to start tackling them with so much spare capacity plus very high availability of beds in all the private hospitals.

    28
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Andy Harding
    Favourite Andy Harding
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:23 PM

    Thank god it on the way down I’m beginning to feel like Anna Frank at this stage .

    85
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Charles Alexander
    Favourite Charles Alexander
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:49 PM

    @Andy Harding: seriously???

    59
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Alan McDonald
    Favourite Alan McDonald
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:43 PM

    @Andy Harding: Did she also spell your name wrong?

    33
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Geraldine Glynn
    Favourite Geraldine Glynn
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:27 PM

    Wonderful news. Couldnt be more welcome and needed.
    Full marks and our gratitude to the government and advisors for the tireless efforts.

    51
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Derek Poutch
    Favourite Derek Poutch
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:31 PM

    @Geraldine Glynn: Are you David,s wife, sister or mother even.

    31
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Geraldine Glynn
    Favourite Geraldine Glynn
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 8:18 PM

    @Derek Poutch: None of your business. My private life is not open to you or anyone else to question.

    10
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute FecklessBear
    Favourite FecklessBear
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 10:25 PM

    @Derek Poutch: defo lol..

    9
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Karllye kripton
    Favourite Karllye kripton
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:35 PM

    Thank you for some good news

    37
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jim O Brien Tech
    Favourite Jim O Brien Tech
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:27 PM

    Number of test said be be 100K last week didn’t happen no answers… 169K tested in total..

    37
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dell
    Favourite Dell
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 5:37 PM

    @Jim O Brien Tech: I think every country is having issues around testing and the availability of staff and resources to do so, but at over 34000 tests per million population, we have actually tested a lot more than most countries.

    68
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Jim O Brien Tech
    Favourite Jim O Brien Tech
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:45 PM

    @Dell: Noted however harris has promised more than once he would get to a level of testing when he has not so why keep telling people different when it is not possible

    16
    See 3 more replies ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dell
    Favourite Dell
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:50 PM

    @Jim O Brien Tech: he can’t see into the future

    10
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dell
    Favourite Dell
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:55 PM

    @Jim O Brien Tech: also he can only go on the information he is being given by the people in the hse or the labs

    7
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute albhbc
    Favourite albhbc
    Report
    May 3rd 2020, 6:35 AM

    @Dell: higher death rate also.

    1
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Dean
    Favourite Dean
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 8:08 PM

    That’s good. Hoping nurses get the pay rise they were promised last year.

    A clap for frontline workers, but an instant pay rise for TDs.

    Imagine if nurses held their ground on negotiations during this pandemic, because they’re in demand. That’s capitalism, right? But nurses are not as immoral as businesses or FG’s neoliberal policies.

    18
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Steve O'Reilly
    Favourite Steve O'Reilly
    Report
    May 3rd 2020, 3:32 AM

    @Dean: the unfortunate thing Dean is that this government is currently throwing billions of euros at the economy and health system to keep everything afloat. This will have to be paid back. I can’t see any pay rises for anyone in that industry unfortunately. And I’m not looking forward to our next budget.

    2
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Peter Denham
    Favourite Peter Denham
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 6:39 PM

    This might be, depressingly, what was needed to show this spoofer that the health system is a mess.

    19
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Hughes
    Favourite David Hughes
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 9:42 PM

    This is interesting. Does anyone know how many people have died while in ICU? One would assume that if diagnosed with Covid-19 which then became serious resulting in hospitalisation and subsequent transfer to ICU, that most of our 1,200+ deaths should have occurred by that sequence/route. This does not appear to have been the case. It appears that the vast majority of our Covid deaths never made it to ICU and possibly never even made it to hospital. Or I am I missing something somewhere…..

    11
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Hundredth Idiot
    Favourite Hundredth Idiot
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 9:55 PM

    @David Hughes: frail people aren’t put on ventilators in ICU because the outcomes aren’t good for them, i.e. it’s an intervention that doesn’t work. Nothing to do with capacity, it’s the same in normal times. So there’s lots of deaths outside of ICU.

    11
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute David Hughes
    Favourite David Hughes
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 11:58 PM

    @Hundredth Idiot: Thank you. So those that are deemed to be too frail are not given the chance of life as their possible outcomes are not good – in order to make room for the potential intake of Covid 19 cases? The ICU numbers that have died seem very low in comparison with the national figure

    5
    See 1 more reply ▾
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute Hundredth Idiot
    Favourite Hundredth Idiot
    Report
    May 3rd 2020, 2:56 AM

    @David Hughes: No, you’re fundamentally misunderstanding. There is no capacity issue, there is no “not being given the chance of life”. ICU isn’t the most appropriate place for many frail patients. It’s a clinical decision. Google “clinical frailty scale” and COVID-19.

    5
    Install the app to use these features.
    Mute John John
    Favourite John John
    Report
    May 2nd 2020, 10:17 PM

    And zero covid19 in the 2 Galway hospitals ICU

    7
Submit a report
Please help us understand how this comment violates our community guidelines.
Thank you for the feedback
Your feedback has been sent to our team for review.

Leave a commentcancel

 
JournalTv
News in 60 seconds