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HOUSING MINISTER SIMON Coveney has said he will not legislate for the water committee’s agreement if it doesn’t include a charge for excessive usage.
The majority of those on the Oireachtas joint committee on the future funding of water services have indicated that they are in favour of abolishing domestic charges and are opposed to charging for the excessive use of water.
In a private meeting, TDs discussed the committee’s draft report with Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and AAA-PBP agreeing that there should be no re-introduction of charges.
“I will not introduce legislation that potentially exposes the country to very severe penalties and fines from the European Commission – I won’t do that,” Coveney told reporters tonight.
EU law
Last year, the European Commission said Ireland will be in breach of European law should it remove the charges completely.
“We have clear advice from Attorney General’s Office, I have legal advice from my own department and the expert commission’s advice that was very clear – and we have a European Commission that has shown flexibility and willingness to work with Ireland, but are also clear that there has to be some consequences for households wasting large amounts of water,” he said.
Coveney said Fine Gael is willing to compromise, but added that other parties have to be prepared to follow suit.
We have compromised on the Fine Gael view very significantly, and we’re asking other parties seeking a working solution to do the same.
“If that compromise involves exposing the State to legal action, I don’t think as an office holder I can facilitate that,” said the minister.
Fianna Fáil’s position
He said Fianna Fáil had hardened its position on the issue, and accused the party of altering its stance on charges in recent days.
“What Fianna Fáil seem to be saying today is that it is okay by them for the general taxpayer to waste water – that wasn’t the Fianna Fáil position until a few days ago.”
Coveney insisted tonight that the work of the committee isn’t finished, adding that he still wants consensus.
When asked what the outcome would be if the committee’s final recommendation was for the total abolition of all water charges, he said:
I would be very surprised if Fianna Fáil asked a government minister to introduce something that was against the AG’s [Attorney General's] advice.
We cannot ignore independent legal advice… it is hugely irresponsible to ask us to do that.
Breaching confidence and supply agreement
Coveney said Fine Gael were not breaching the confidence and supply agreement (the deal between Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael which essentially keeps the government in power).
The agreement was never intended to instruct a minister to act contrary to the advice of the Attorney General, he said.
We will continue to abide by it and I hope Fianna Fáil will too.
The agreement states that the government will “facilitate the passage of legislation” for the implementation of the recommendations in relation to domestic water charging (whether it be abolition, a reformed charging regime or other options).
This line was put to the minister this evening and he was asked what would happen if the Oireachtas approved and voted in favour of the abolition of the water charges regime.
“Facilitating is not the same as introducing,” he clarified.
“What I am saying is I cannot introduce legislation that I regard as effectively illegal.”
‘Bullying’ the committee
Sinn Féin spokesperson on water Eoin Ó Broin has accused the minister of “trying to bully the Oireachtas Water Committee”.
Tonight’s intervention by Minister Coveney prior to the Committee concluding our business is wholly inappropriate. He is trying to bully the Committee with exaggerated claims on the supposed illegality of complete abolition of water charges.
While a final decision is expected tomorrow or next week it is clear that the Government is losing the argument.
The minister should stop interfering in the work of the Committee. He should adhere to the process he set up and respect the outcome of the Committee.
He said the minister will have plenty of time to respond to the committee’s final report when it is debated by the Dáil and Seanad later this month.
O’Broin said Coveney’s attempts to influence the outcome of the committee’s deliberations is “wrong and smacks of desperation”.
The committee of 20 TDs is expected to finalise its report either tomorrow or next week ahead of a Dáil vote which is due to take place by the end of March.
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I’m afraid to give my opinion incase they start taxing my comments…
Your comment is taxing, Paperboy2:-)
Per keystroke, so keep it short.
How droll
Water tax !!!!
The rest is bull shit.
Paperboy
They do need to pay their trolls so dont be surprised if they tax your comments.
Worst country in the world to work!!!
Budget day is going to be a day of election bribery, everyone dont get fooled by this, remember how disgracefully our government have treated us all in past ! Especially dont forget we are still fighting to abolish the new water tax, a tax that we are all paying for already through general taxation !
I just know I’m not going to get any work done today. I’m going to spend my time reading all the comments on thejournal.ie
Noonan and Kenny or Nooenny are too old to worrie about consequences its the historical aspect, always remember for the wrong reasons but remember all the same. Their mark on the world when their gone…let’s hope they go soon……
Happy with the budget overall very pro business which is great. What suspect is that it’s very similar to the give away budgets of FF. DL and SF must be disappointed with the welfare increases which will play into Labours hands and increase their vote.
After all that I’m not even up €30 per month. And my water charges will cost me more than that, so still, nett result is I have even less than last year.
So, yes..you’re buying!
Kenny has bought out journal and set up a team of red tumbing dopes. Are you frightened of social networking Enda. Will you just ends it. Red tumb me to confirm.
I hope the German parliament has approved this budget. We wouldn’t want to be upsetting our masters.
If Sinn Fein had their way the germans certainly would have been our masters
http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/new-evidence-on-iranazi-links/
That’s desperate Tom, even for a blueshirt.
I’m not any coloured shirt, I find the continual silly irrelevant comments irritating. Is my comment a stupid irrelevant comment….yes, but it’s in keeping with the comment I was replying to.
Do I support the Government ? in some things yes & in others no. But no matter who is in power I’m never going agree with all their policy but that’s what democracy is, a compromise. I do detest opposition parties that knock for the sake of knocking.
Labour were every bit as bad during the last governments term as Sinn Fein are this term.
I never in my life voted Labour but I intend giving Ged Nash a vote next time.
Simply because although it hurted their support base they were mature enough to make the tough choices.
Probably change again after that, The only party I will never vote for are FF, but I am a floating voter
You lost when you starting comparing the current labour party to the shinners. No one will ever be compared to the lying treacherous animals. You are voting for Ged Nash, you deserve everything you get. Oh and before you call me a shinner, i was a card carrying member of labour from 1997 to 2012
Well there you go thetruth, I never give them a vote 1997-2012, however they are having to live a little more in reality these days, but that grating/condescending voice of Burton is hard to listen to.
Why is The Journal taking the piss out of the protester? He’s perfectly intitled to do that.. Power to him I say!
The only thing I want to hear today from noonan is how he plans to dissolve irish water and clean up the mess fg has made everything else is irrelevant
If the finance minister knows what’s good for him he would abolish the USC, HOUSE HOLD TAX AND THE WATER CHARGES THAT WAY, The people of Ireland wouldn’t feel the pinch as much. And maybe we would spend again. Who knows.
And then we would be broke again, extremely smart thinking
Nothing of significance there to increase take home pay. I’ll be cutting my own spending to counter the continued austerity/theft.
it’s going to do next to nothing for ordinary people. the rich will get a tax break we’ll get feck all
That degree in Human Rights not raking in the millions you thought it would?
never wanted to be rich mo chara
Who you calling mo!
mo as in my
I shall name you Sherlock.
Mo Chara, is he not the British athlete?
Is it too soon to change the hash tag “As it happens” to “Sh*t happens”?
Here is everything you’re going to see today:
1. The govt acting like they’re doing you a favor giving you tax cuts hoping you won’t notice that with all the taxes they’ve newly introduced and charges they’ve hiked you’re actually at a major MAJOR NET LOSS.
2. FF are going to pretend that the govt is somehow doing something other than following the policies they started in office, they will be trying to square an impossible circle of saying that those policies are the reason for recovery but are also terrible bold policies that hurt the needy that they’d never have done.
3. The fragmented left, will come into the dail looking disheveled and shabby and make bellicose over the top speeches about how they’d have free chocolate ice cream and Swedish hookers for all and would manage to do this without anyone other than cartoon rich people with monocles paying taxes. The highlight of this will be two upper middle class brats who came from privilege acting as crusaders for the working class.
4. SF will try to square their own circle of trying to make the press see how mainstream and moderate they are while trying to send the exact opposite message to their constituents.
5. Labour ministers will stand up and try to make a highly regressive conservative reactionary agenda sound like something Hugo Chavez came up with, while at the same time leaking to the press that FG wanted 20euro a week dole and would have got it but for the valiant red crusaders in Labour standing up for the little guy
6. The tiny number of people in the house actually qualified in economics will get very little attention and will continue to say ”hey that’s another iceberg were heading for there…see it?” as smug ministers laugh thinking were in a recovery.
I’m really looking forward to this budget. Good things are beginning to happen again. Workers will be rewarded for their hard work/sacrafices over the last few years.
I agree but bear in mind that some people will never be happy. :)
True..if we get any reprieves it will be ‘THEY’RE BUYING THE ELECTION’ and if they take anything else it’ll be ‘CAN’T PAY WON’T PAY’.
Gets tiring after a while…
Abolish the USC as promised, and I will dance a jig with delight!
Those pizza suits are another fine example of the job bridge scheme in action.
I can just imagine the job description
“The Intern will gain valuable experience in wearing an outfit resembling a takeaway product, dealing with the public and being chased by hungry stoners”
Camel Lights are still €8.60 that means they’ll go up to 9 quid? might hafta start buying rolling tobacco to mix with my joints . would like to just smoke blunts but at €500 an ounce I simply can’t afford it . of coarse tens of millions of euro are being lost to the exchequer due to cannabis being illegal
400 euro thought I just don’t have that disposable income but yeah it would be a wise investment
5 euro Increase in child benefit ? Well it’s going to take more than five euro to buy my vote at the next election .
Post the fiver back if you don’t want it, Catherine, and maybe tone down the histrionics, will ya?
Histrionics ? Led a very sheltered life have you ? Must have if you think that comment constitutes histrionics lol
Absolutely sick of all the government bashing. We all played a part in this economic mess. The government has brought us back from the brink. Have some respect and educate yourselves.
FG fool, this will be you last stand with general Enda Custard Kenny leading the charge.
I’ll tell you what shouldn’t exist … Ministers !! Especially out of touch ones with scary smiles and big fat salaries and pensions . ( which basically covers the lot of them )
Yeah the accountants and economists should be the ones running the country.
The proposed/suspected cut in the private pension levy will have no effect on workers pockets – scheme providers will just tell you it will reduce the burden/pressure on the scheme. So nothing really there for workers in that respect.
An increase in child benefits – FFS, could we not scrap this social welfare payment an introduce a proper children’s tax credit and/or at least try to means test it. Sick of contributing to the costs of bringing up other people’s children.
Top tax rate to be cut – middle to low income earners are not really going to benefit as much as high earners.
I have no kids and don’t earn enough to be effected by the 1% top rate cut. I’m in the verge of insolvency, if the USC bands aren’t widened far enough to give me 10-20euro at least a week extra take home I’m screwed. But sure, I’m not in the select demographics (lab for the social welfare and FG for the top layers) so I don’t matter.
Sorry, bit of a rant. Carry on
Buying votes?
They were elected on the campaign of lies we were subject to at the time. They then screwed us over at every turn. A reversal is the least they should do.
But as with every “vote buying budget” for every five euro joe soap benefits, higher earners benefit by twenty.
“for every five euro joe soap benefits, higher earners benefit by twenty.” – That is how percentages usually work, yes.
sure because the reason the AAA wants to keep giving us Dubliners clean water from our taps for free is not electioneering, no sirree
That’s because the higher earners make 40 euro, pay 25 to the government in tax, who then give 5 to joe soap.
What’s not to like if you are a socialist?
I understand percentage perfectly.
Most people dont earn enough to reach a higher tax bracket so they are gettng no benefit from a reduction in that.
Everyone would get the benefit of a lowering of the lower tax bracket. Both higher and lower earners.
Giovanni Giusti, Have a look at the link below.
Please stop making a fool of yourself by saying Irish people have free water.
Budget budget mo mudget bana nana fo fudget
Me my mo mudget
BUDGET!
A bloody Nespresso store….when will we learn.
Aspirational, rubbish, snob coffee. You get better and cheaper from a good bag of ground coffee in a plunger.
But…. you have to wait a few minutes for it to be ready….. AHHHHH
You will have. Heard of the Boston tea party ? Well in protest ye should have the Dublin Nespresso party and feck all the Nespresso in to the Liffey . In protest against notions, the budget , taxes and fog .
How about a “Knob Tax” on anyone who brags about how well off they are on The Journal?
That scam that is the Universal Social Club sandwich charge should of been wiped out years ago!!
Protesters already outside the Dail, giving out about the budget and the EU omg.
Oh one of them is in the article already, didnt see that, lol I’m like a journalist.
The 11% USC on high earning self employed is disgusting. Of course they wouldn’t levy it on the high earners in the public sector.
They should give us back €30 euro that they already took from us for child benefit. €5 is nothing to what they took from us (€30).give us back the amount you took from the child benefit.
The sense of entitlement is strong in this one. Just be grateful you get any payment at all for them. There are those of us who don’t have kids, that don’t have the luxury of state payments every month and have had a lot more than €30 taken from us.
Here’s another one. Typical moaner. Moan when there’s tax hikes. Moan when you get a little back. When deciding if you could afford to have children did you honestly take into account the monthly child benefit?
Should be made into a tax credit instead encourage more back to work
For the record for most the 30 euro was taken away with a hell of a lot more as no one just has kids in isolation. Most have had cuts or charges to deal with alongside child benefit cuts . That is unless you are super rich . For the record we are very much entitled to moan . Especially about our elected representatives . Child benefit has been factored into the household income and it is missed when cuts are made . its not our fault other havent produced children. Also I paid taxes for 30 years paying taxes that no doubt covered a lot of the child benefit paid for a lot iof the people on here who havent had kids themselves . They were kids themselves once. Also child benefit should not be a tax credit as not everyone can work outside the home. Some of us ( carers) work very hard for our benefits and can’t take outside work as much as we would like to.
One of the parents should be working Tax credit can go to them. No need to be married to transfer it I personally think it would be more beneficial as a tax credit those who really need it can claim it would make doing something like means tested much easier etc as well. Also means that it can’t be “taken out of country” so to speak foreign parents would have to be working in Ireland to claim it.
“We can go and face people on the doors now,” one Labour senator says
Just don’t come to my door liars
The double payment should be an illegal in EU. Also making you pay for something you are not using. First you have to pay the annual charges (even if your house is empty an you use 0 liters of water) and then you pay 4.66 per m3 (1000 liters) what is over the yearly allowance.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/water_services/water_charges.html tells us for single person they yearly charge is 176 euro and for this they get 30000 liters “for free”.
How can they claim it is free??? You pay 176 euros for 30 m3 of water, making the m3 price 5,87 euros per cubic meter (and even more if you don’t use up your 30000 liters in a year)
Water charges
http://www.citizensinformation.ie
Ha ha ha Joan thinks by giving people €5 extra on childs allowance they can go onto the doorsteps with confidence…….LABOUR party are going the way of the greens….lying to the people…..screwing us with all your taxes……I hope you come to my door in person…
Noonan has a frog in his throat and a German in his ear
Also if you have aspirations of joining An Garda Siochana the Communications Clinic can offer you the skills to ace the test. And it will only cost you €200.
So all comments about Terry Prone / Communications Clinic / Irish Times Apology / Karagh Fox / Govt advisory payments to Savage/ Prone are acceptable on this blog?
Very good speech by Mary Lou McDonald. I’m not a member of Sinn Fein, never even voted for them (mainly because of their IRA connections) but she made some very very good clear points. It was totally unnecessary for Sean Barrett to interrupt her for simply looking at Enda Kenny, surely anyone speaking about the budget today would do that at least every now and then. Mary-Lou was right to comment this was biased on his part. And then for him to say: withdraw the remark or leave?? Would have loved to hear the rest of her speech. Sean Barrett’s should resign and be replaced with a truely impartial Ceann Comhairle!
Here’s my budget predictions… Bullsh!t, bullsh!t, bullsh!t, PR equipped statements followed down the road by u turns on some unpopular decisions
That’s not accurate, you’ve misread how it all works.
There is no standing charge, and a free allowance for a household of 30 kL. If you use less than this, you pay nothing.
The €176 figure is an assessed charge for people with no meters, and is based in an average consumption of 66 kL. If you have a meter you pay €4.88 per kL over 30kL used.
In the event of your unoccupied house with 0L usage, there’ll be no charges.
Hope this helps.
The water charges “double taxation” argument kinda goes out the window now with these tax cuts…
Will someone please pass Michael Noonan a spit bucket… I think he’s about to hock over Brendan Howling..
PRIVATE SECTOR Pension Levy is gone!
Happy Days!
He should have gone with the red tie, that’s my favourite colour.
Poor nurses….any hint of a raise? :(
Public pension levy remaining the same??
‘Lads, lets bribe the elderly vote with €100 for water charges, that’ll keep us popular’
have your say