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THE RELIGIOUS SISTERS of Charity have announced that they will end their involvement with the St Vincent’s Hospital Group – and will have no involvement with the National Maternity Hospital.
Ownership of the specific piece of land at the Elm Park campus, the site of the former St Vincent’s Private Hospital, which is currently subject to a rental agreement, will be sold to SVHG at commercial terms yet to be agreed.
In a statement today, Sr Mary Christian, Congregational Leader of the Religious Sisters of Charity, said:
The Religious Sisters of Charity will end our involvement in St Vincent’s Healthcare Group and will not be involved in the ownership or management of the new National Maternity Hospital.
The news comes after much discussion and controversy over the religious congregation’s involvement in the National Maternity Hospital (NMH).
Over 1,500 people had turned out in a protest earlier this month against the Sisters of Charity owning the hospital.
Ex-Holles Street master, Dr Peter Boylan, resigned from the board of the maternity hospital over the row about ownership. He had described himself as “long being a critic of the plan”, calling it unprecedented.
Health Minister Simon Harris had called for ‘cool heads’ in April due to the uproar over the ownership being given to the religious order. He had also spoken out after people raised fears that having a religious body involved in the maternity hospital would effectively mean that “nuns will be running the hospital” – describing that as “not true”.
The National Maternity Hospital is being moved from Holles Street to St Vincent’s Hospital in Dublin 4, with a large development taking place there at an estimated cost of €150 million.
In April, it was confirmed that the new unit would be solely under the ownership of the Sisters of Charity, who are the major shareholders of the St Vincent’s Healthcare Group. But that has been reversed due to today’s announcement.
Sr Mary Christian continued in today’s statement:
“For the last two years we have been actively working to find the best way to relinquish our shareholding of the St Vincent’s Healthcare Group (SVHG). It includes three hospitals; St Vincent’s University Hospital, St Vincent’s Private Hospital and St Michael’s Hospital, Dun Laoghaire.
Although the Sisters of Charity no longer have any direct involvement in the provision of healthcare services we remain dedicated to preserving the legacy of Mary Aikenhead, whose mission in life was to heal and care for the sick and poor. We believe that the future continued success of SVHG can best be ensured by our transferring ownership of the group to a newly formed company with charitable status to be called ‘St Vincent’s’. The Religious Sisters of Charity will have no involvement in this new company.
Upon completion of this proposed transaction, the requirement set out in the SVHG Constitution, to conduct and maintain the SVHG facilities in accordance with The Religious Sisters of Charity Health Service Philosophy and Ethical Code, will be amended and replaced to reflect compliance with national and international best practice guidelines on medical ethics and the laws of the Republic of Ireland.
She said that the SVHG Board, management and staff “will continue to provide acute healthcare services that foster Mary Aikenhead’s core values of dignity, compassion, justice, quality and advocacy”.
They will ensure that the three hospitals in SVHG can continue to meet the needs of their patients and families, so that every individual can always access the care and treatment they need to achieve health and well-being.
‘St Vincent’s’ will replace the Sisters of Charity as the shareholders in SVHG. The shares in SVHG will be transferred to St Vincent’s for a nominal/“peppercorn” consideration in return.
The Religious Sisters of Charity will no longer have a right to appoint Directors to the Board of SVHG, and the present two Sister Directors will resign from the Board with immediate effect.
The statement added that:
In the event of the liquidation or wind-up of St Vincent’s at any time in the future, any surplus assets arising therefrom will be vested with the Charitable Regulator and utilised for healthcare purposes and facilities with similar values.
“Just as our Founder Mary Aikenhead saw the need in 1834 to establish a hospital to meet the needs of the sick and poor, we believe that it is in the best interests of the patients and children born in the National Maternity Hospital today that they be provided with modern maternity and neonatal services that are women and infant centred and integrated within the Elm Park campus,” said the statement.
“It is now time for us to relinquish completely our involvement in SVHG. We are confident that the Board, management and staff of SVHG will continue to maintain a steadfast dedication to providing the best possible acute healthcare to patients and their families in line with the values espoused by Mary Aikenhead”.
This proposal has the full support of the Board of SVHG.
Health Minister Simon Harris said he welcomed the news. He said the timing of the “historic decision” was very welcome.
“It directly addresses concerns regarding the question of religious influence in the new National Maternity Hospital and further illustrates the constructive role of the Sisters to facilitate this landmark project.
“The Department of Health is continuing to engage with St Vincent’s Healthcare Group and the National Maternity Hospital in relation to the project. The Minister will update Government on the project next week.”
In a separate statement, The Chairperson of SVHG, James Menton, said: “These are major developments, and reflect the wonderful legacy to Irish healthcare of the Sisters of Charity.”
The Sisters have always held the highest ambitions for the provision of world class healthcare services in Ireland and have successfully achieved and sustained this. They also see the need for the proposed development of the new National Maternity Hospital integrated within the Elm Park campus and want to do everything possible to ensure this vital facility for mothers and babies is developed as quickly as possible.
He said that the Board, management and 4,000 staff of SVHG are also absolutely committed to upholding the vision and values of Mary Aikenhead.
A transition board will be put in place for a period of time following this decision.
The National Maternity Hospital said it “warmly welcomes” the statement from The Sisters of Charity and the Board of SVHG. It said:
At all stages during the Kieran Mulvey mediation it was our clear understanding that the nuns never sought to exercise clinical control over the Hospital and that the independent ethos of the new National Maternity Hospital would be preserved on relocation to the SVHG campus.
We have worked closely with St Vincent’s University Hospital for generations and we would like to acknowledge the outstanding contribution of the Sisters of Charity to Irish Healthcare over so many years.
It said it it would also like to acknowledge the support of the Minister, Simon Harris and the Department of Health and its own Board and staff “in being so steadfast during this process”.
A former member of the National Maternity Hospital and St Vincent’s University Hospital co-location board, Professor Chris Fitzpatrick, told Today with Sean O’Rourke on RTÉ Radio 1 that the decision was “a brave step forward and the correct decision”.
He said it had been made in the interests of women and was a positive development, made in response to public concern about a potential conflict of interest.
The news was also welcomed by the Health Minister as a “very significant” announcement.
Dr Peter Boylan also described it as a positive development, saying the Sisters deserve praise for making it. He told Today with Sean O’Rourke that he didn’t think “the Sisters should have been put in the position in the first place”.
He said that the situation had been stressful for him but he has very fond memories of Holles Street, of which he is governor.
Fianna Fáil Spokesperson on Health, Billy Kelleher has said the Sisters of Charity have taken the right decision to remove themselves from the operation of the St Vincent’s Hospital Group, and the new National Maternity Hospital.
“This decision, I believe, is in the best interests of both the organisation and of patients, and will provide a blueprint for other religious organisations to follow,” he said.
“The Sisters of Charity have provided excellent medical and nursing care to the people of Ireland for generations. Their contribution should be recognised and celebrated, but in 2017, it’s time to find a better and more modern model for the delivery of acute and maternal health services.”
He said that Minister Harris “must now come forward with a proposal that ensures that the State’s €300 million investment in the new Maternity Hospital is reflected, and protected, in its ownership and governance structure”.
Sinn Féin Health spokesperson Deputy Louise O’Reilly also welcomed the news, saying:
“The decision is hugely important for a variety or reasons, but most of all; it is hugely significant for patients and particularly for women who will be cared for in any of these hospitals and in the prospective new maternity hospital.
“Indeed, today is a great victory for the grassroots movements and the individuals across the state that protested this decision from the outset and made it clear that the provision of health services should be free of religious interference.”
Sinn Féin brought a motion in the Dáil earlier this month calling for the new National Maternity Hospital to be kept wholly in the ownership of the State.
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Only because of people power not the government
Nuns on the run
@Brian Power:
Everything good = People’s fault.
Everything bad = Gov fault.
That doesn’t sound childish at all.
How about giving credit when someone actually delivers what people want?
@Brinster: people pressure did it, nothing else.
@Brian Power: People voted that government @Brian. Go and read about “democracy”.
@Brinster: Well to be honest we went from the inexperienced Simon Harris folding to every demand of the nuns for de facto control of the hospital then a public protest with harris looking like a deer in the headlights for several weeks not realising the mistakes he made and now this so I wouldn’t be giving government much credit.
@David McDermott:
Have you ever given the Gov credit for anything though?
This is a great result for the people of Ireland. By FAR the most important thing was to get a deal done quickly so that there are no further delays to this badly needed facility.
It’s really churlish to refuse to credit the people who brokered the deal. You’d blame them if they didn’t get a result, you should credit them when they do.
@Gus Sheridan: “people pressure did it”
Lol the usual anti Catholic extremists bloviating in the journal comment section is not people pressure.
@Brian Power: How much is people power costing us in terms of buying the land, or are the nun’s just giving it away?
@Gavin Powell: Gavin, you need to go off and have a long aul pray to your sky fairy. I hear Baghdad is nice this time of year…
Without people pressure, the government would have gifted €300m worth of taxpayer’s money to an order of nuns who enslaved women, stole and trafficked their babies.
cortisola. People voted that government. No they did not go and read about voting.
Harris must be a strong operator behind the scenes,
@Brian Power: we may be a bit haste in our celebrations and back slapping. What does “undue influence” mean and what does the pursuance of Mary Aikenhead’s objectives mean in reality too?
@Brinster: The average Journal reader gives the Govt. credit for nothing. They complain about anything they can think of and the Govt. is supposed to do everything for them. Luckily, the country is made up of far more reasonable, responsible people than that.
@alphanautica: “Harris must be a strong operator behind the scenes,”
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Nothing like a good ol’ bellylaugh of a monday morning! Cheers for that!!
@Cathal: yes, the two of them and in their eighties!!
@Brinster: Why would you give the government credit for anything? Their job is to administer the state, and exercise the will of the people. In this case, there was a shady deal to not do this, and then people power forced them to basically do what they should have done in the first place. Credit to the order for copping on that they actually should owe the state the billions we are paying on their behalf, and bringing attention to it was a huge mistake.
@cortisola: No they didn’t. The present minority government was cobbled together by backroom deals.
@Cathal:
No they are planning for the future as there are very few nuns now and no new people joining so common sense should tell you that you cannot run a hospital if you have no people to do it .
@David McDermott: rabbit in headlights David, rabbit, a deer has substance….
@Paul Fahey: Read the Nuns statement “Upon completion of this proposed transaction, the requirement set out in the SVHG Constitution, to conduct and maintain the SVHG facilities in accordance with The Religious Sisters of Charity Health Service Philosophy and Ethical Code, will be amended and replaced to reflect compliance with national and international best practice guidelines on medical ethics and the laws of the Republic of Ireland”
@Yenreit: for a peppercorn!
@Yenreit:
I would imagine with the new company that’s being set up with “charitable status” would likely suggest they are pretty much giving it away.
Common sense prevailing for a change.
@Ciaran Ó Fallúin:
What’s really great is that there won’t be any further delays to this badly needed facility.
For once we seem to have come up against a problem and then solved it quickly.
Fair play to all involved – Harris has delivered.
@Ciaran Ó Fallúin:
Just wait a moment now, how much is this “common sense” going to cost the taxpayer? The site will probably have to be bought out now, costing tens of millions extra.
@Fred Jensen:
Pregnant people are tax payers too, as are the men who love them. Their kids future tax payers. Maybe, just maybe some, if not all of those tax payers would prefer religion kept out of their medical treatment.
@Fred Jensen: that is what taxes are supposed to be used for Fred. Infrastructure development. Far better that the money is spent securing the independence and building of a vital health unit than on public sector pensions.
@Kristine Wahl: Yes, they’ve gone through enough, unnecessarily, as it is.
@Fred Jensen: this hospital will be in use for the next 100 years or so. We must keep it run for medical grounds only for future generations. I was born in St James’s Hospital and I’m very grateful to the tax payers that went before me and paid for it. We must do the same for future generations.
@Fred Jensen: Irish Times are reporting -
“Under the changes, the shares in SVHG will be transferred to St Vincent’s for a nominal/ or “peppercorn” consideration.”
This is almost too good to be true.
@Brinster: is this not just the transfer of a publicly funded hospital into the ownership of a private company with charitable status. This sounds like the giving a private commercial company the hospital and I am not convinced in the slightest. A publicly funded hospital must remain in public ownership and control.
@Brinster: I think you’re giving Harris more credit than he is due here. Had public opinion not been so steadfast there would have been a different result.
@Brinster: If only they’d make a change to the location of both NHM and the National Children’s Hosp. Both should be together in Blanchardstown – easy access off the M50 from all parts of the country.
@Ciaran Ó Fallúin: Does this decision mean the nuns will be paid for the land involved even though they owe arrears for Child Abuse cases
A newly formed company called St Vincent’s that the nuns will have no involvement in. Yet the statement later goes on to say that the directors of this new company will ‘be true to the values of our foundress’. So how if they have no involvement can they ensure that!!!! Watching with interest.
@Gerry Carroll: what’s wrong with values of the foundress
@Gerry Carroll:
They won’t have any involvement; their current representatives are resigning effect of immediately and they have no say in their replacements.
An ethos of care does not mean under Catholic ruling.
To be fair to Harris, between the Okrambi deal, paediatric hospital and now this, he’s done very well. It’s just to criticise politicians when they get things wrong but you have to give credit where it’s due too.
@Gerry Carroll: In fairness, Vincent’s hospital does have a good track record. They have scope now to improve on that.
@Gerry Carroll: in complete agreement with you @Gerry Carroll. While this result is a giant step forward in the right direction, I won’t be celebrating until more information comes to light about the new ‘St Vincents’ that will have charitable status and will be true to the foundress of the sisters of charity. This government have proved themselves untrustworthy since their inception. I wouldn’t put it past them to ensure the ‘charity’ is run by the Iona brigade.
Pity Peter Boylan had to resign though with all the shenanigans that went on/have gone on & still going on.
Thank you And well done Dr Pere Boylan
NUNs.. Reverse!!!
Fair enough
@Cathal: Fair play Simon Harris.
Wasn’t expecting this at all. Great result for everyone.
@Brinster: that’s about 4 comments now brinster. Minister harris was the one handing this site to the nuns. You really have a hard on for harris. If it wasn’t for the people, the sisters would be running the hospital. This government made a balls of this from the start.
@Brinster: You seem to keep misspelling Peter Boylans name for some reason.
@Joe Travers: Sorry Joe.
Forgot I wasn’t allowed an opinion if you disagree with it.
Forgot that the only type of comment you can make on the journal is aggressive, vitriolic abuse.
Forgot that if you ever say anything positive, you obviously have “a hard on” for someone – it could never be that you genuinely think this is an excellent result for the women of Ireland who desperately need a new, modern National Maternity hospital.
Or maybe you could grow up and acknowledge that this is extremely good news?
@The Risen: Haha! Laughed at that!
Peter Boylan deserves a lot of credit too – it wouldn’t have happened without him.
No problem admitting that.
@Brinster: I’m not reading much about harris contribution to this. Can you fill us in please? (bear in mind we all watched him spin and weasel his way through every interview on the matter)
@Brinster: about time you have consideration for the women of Ireland because You’ve been speaking about harris over and over… that’s why I said what I said.
Harris started this, it’s like when a thief returns the goods after getting caught. Still makes him a thief.
@The Risen:
Look at the statement the Board of NMH have just released – they specifically single our Harris for praise. He’s the only person named.
I know Harris bashing is Journal commenters favourite pastime, but he has done extremely well here.
And we should give praise where praise is due.
@Brinster: No he should be resigning himself over this bloody shambles.
@Joe Travers: Simon Harris wasn’t handing the nuns any site. The nuns own the site.
@Brinster: Simple Simon Harris couldn’t organise a pissup in a brewery. He is totally clueless and out of his depth.
Public pressure brought him to heel. He would be dangerous if he had half a brain.
Wonderful!! Good news for a change.
Long-awaited. Delighted to read this alert. A change for the better.
good!
Winder are we going to find out five years from now about some shady deal done with the sisters to pay them off. We should start saving up for the tribunal.
#Begrudgery
Credit to the nuns and nobody else.
@Gavin Powell: it was people power that changed their minds. Nothing else. Great result for the hospital.
@Gavin Powell: what lol
The nuns were violent, murdered children and for years helped cover up abuse and let violence happen – you’re aware of that yes?
The nuns just gave away millions of euros worth of assets for peanuts, all credit goes to them and no one else. Well done sisters.
@Gavin Powell: did you just deliberately choose to ignore child murder and cover ups lol
They’re pretty serious and render your argument void which is why you’ve ignored it. Come on your smarter than that
@Chris Finn: you’re speaking in broad strokes, you’ll need to be more specific unless your intention is to just come across as deranged, unhinged and hysterical in which case carry on.
@Gavin Powell: Gavin, you need psychiatric help. Have an aul pray and ask your sky fairy for help and see how that goes first.
@Chris Finn:
You may find that it wasn’t all nuns.
@Chris Finn:
Pity there was not similar public outrage to get the Magdalene Laundries closed down . Or did it suit people and the Government to shove social problems out of sight and out of mind. Everyone knew what was going on and nothing was done about it. The courts just kept committing women to these institutions and families could get their pregnant daughters in quick enough in case they were shamed in front of the neighbours. The fathers of these children did a runner so I would not blame the nuns for all of it . They have the approval of everyone in society back then.
@Aine O Connor: your ignorance surrounding the Magdalene laundries is astounding. My grandfather was burn in a mother and baby unit, transferred to the industrial school system and then sold as a farm labourer by the church at the age of 8. His mother ended up in the home, because her husband had gone missing, presumed dead, in WW1 fighting with the allied forces and the church did not feel she should be having a child as a single mother, she was forced into the homes, but you continue with your ignorance based narrative.
For the record, they beat the living shit out of him and being sold was a relief, think about that and let is sink in.
@Paul Fahey:
My point was in case you missed it that the general public did nothing about it
@Paul Fahey:
Also some the farmers who used the children for slave labour were just as vicious .
@Aine O Connor: oh dear oh dear oh dear. Your wilful ignorance is quite staggering.
@Paul Fahey: no it is not Paul I remember that era well and I know what society was like then.
@Aine O Connor: “My point was in case you missed it that the general public did nothing about it”
Do you also blame women (and men) in abusive relationships for doing nothing about it? Because that’s what was going on here, The Church drunk on power abusing this country left right and centre.
@Rob Cahill:
Why do you persist in letting everyone else off the hook. People turned a blind eye to what was happening at that time , it was not confined to the church . It was the same in England , Europe and America .
@Rob Cahill:
The Church , the Dept of Justice , Dept of Education , the Gardai, all of them .
Great news
In fairness to Simon Harris, he recognised the public outrage and gave the nuns the time to figure it out. He has plenty crises on his hands (I say this as a HSE clinician with a huge waiting list), but I think he’s handled this one pretty well, with probably a fair bit of work behind the scenes.
@Sean Flanagan: in fairness to Simon Harris??? Handled this one fairly well? What planet are you on or are you a relation? FFS Stevie Wonder could see the original idea was sycophantic crawling to the Catholic Church hoping to gain votes in still Catholic dominated rural constituencies.
@Sean Flanagan: The fact he didn’t realise the public would be outraged in the first place just shows how out of touch he and his party are. A bloody disgrace.
And who will form this new charitable group?
Positive news for a Monday.
This is far from a done deal.
First, the commercial terms of the sale of the site to SVHG need to be agreed and implanted, with actual transfer of title.
Secondly, there needs to be an assurance that all direct and indirect religious involvement in SVHG is brought to a final inclusion.
It needs actually to happen.
@Tony Daly: there is a term in the statement which concerns me greatly “undue influence”. This is a very open term, what the public see as “undue” and what the sisters see as “undue” is very different. When this is taken into context of the pursuance of Mary Aikenhead’s objectives I have my suspicions this may be another sleight of hand for Mahony and Simon Harris to save face.
@Paul Fahey: completely agree @Paul Fahey. This government have proven themselves to be untrustworthy and corrupt time and time again. Until we see the nuts and bolts of this new arrangement we need to be wary and watch developments very closely.
@Paul Fahey: valid reservations and appropriate concerns.
Mental reservations are not unknown in the clerical sphere in the institutional Roman Catholic Church.
You are absolutely right about the interpretation of “undue influence”.
@Tony Daly: further, is this just not another method of handing over a publicly funded hospital to a commercial enterprise with charitable status? All publicly fund hospitals must remain in total control of the public. When will the state take ownership if our health service. I am not convinced by this whatsoever ad the fools are lapping it up as people power before the detail is known.
@Paul Fahey: actually I have only now twigged to that dimension.
The site and the hospital should vest in a public State ownership. The HSE is the obvious body to hold the title. Charities can go out of control and belly up.
Our National Maternity body should be State owned, State controlled and secular in nature beholden to no faith or dogma.
@Tony Daly: Exactly, this is a card trick of the most disingenuous nature, but the sheep are loving it and back slapping all round. The health service should be owned by the public and managed by the state. This is just another way of the state removing their responsibility for health, shameful.
@Tony Daly: Well said. I wouldn’t hold my breath that this s a done deal. Maybe a secret deal will be done to appease the religious, they will then still have involvement in
In the hospital. The Church should not have involvement in health or education.
About time.
…..so who actually owns this new company then?…
@Ed Ned: Not the public it seems to me, but a commercial enterprise with charitable status. The state must not gift a €300,000,000 maternity hospital to anyone, it must be fully owned by the public.
Correct and common sense decision although it is scary how close we came to an antiquated decision. It shouldn’t take a public revolt or protests on the street for the government to prioritise medical care for a hospital.
@Rochelle: They want to keep everthing at arms lenghth so they dont have to take responsibility which is why theyre privitasing everything & anything
It sounds too good to be true! Fantastic but I don’t fully understand, is SVHG state ownership or another charity or a private organisation?
Should be delighted that, once again, an arrogant elite have been slapped down by people power. But as the water issue and EU referendums have shown, they don’t tend to stay down, but instead try to find any and every way of getting the ‘right’ decision-and sod the popular will. So I won’t be celebrating until this climb down has been signed, sealed and delivered.
@Michael Bride:
What a load of rubbish
@Nick Allen: the deal really needs to be signed, sealed and delivered.
Politics, religion and health administration have a way of being an unpredictable and unreliable mixture.
How much was in the brown envelope?
@Éanna Ryan: Enough to cover a pat on the back for harris’ incompetence
At least one religious convent can do the right thing *Cough* Christian Brothers *Cough*
Took them long enough..
Good ordinry people power at work here to clean up mess created again by lazy sloppy overpaid incompetent politicians. Common sense at last. Big thank you to Peter Boylan for staying true to your convictions. Well done everyone.
Good news. Although the fact that they have been actively working to find the best way to relinquish their shareholding in SVHG for the last 2 years would have been information that may have helped ease the situation and tensions last month!
Shows how people can make change when they come together now we need to stop the use of private sector supplying social housing and get families into secure affordable housing and stop vulture funds and banks repossessing homes.
Nuns are useless things in today’s society.
sanity has won out in the end how could an organisation that tortured and facilitated the systemic abuse and depravity against women be seriously considered.
@dead right:
Don’t forget it was the same order that established St. Vincent’s Hospital in the first place and by their hard unpaid work over the past few decades , have brought it to the centre of excellence is is today.
Why am I waiting for the catch in this statement??? I’ll wait until an army of lawyers look at it before I start celebrating
Minister Harris made a total bags of this and if it wasn’t for the vigilance and determination of the people, he would have got away with it.
He is no more than a reed shaken by the wind. Power to the people!
Fantastic news….power of the Irish ppl
Why can’t a State funded asset, the National Maternity Hospital paid for by the taxpayers and intended to be accessible to all, be owned by the Irish State?
Why use a private charity instead?
Bit of persuasive people power bringing FG and the church into line ☺️
Thanks to People Power !!! Extremely happy to hear such good news!! Of course our so called Government didn’t have the courage of their concictions!!!! So proud of all the Irish people who stood up for the dignity of those who were so bady treated and cheated out of seeing their children grow up to be adults. My heart goes out to those women and those poor children. My thoughts and prayers are with you all!!!!
Sounds good…
Thanks to the Irish people standing up to them. Nothing to do with Harris and his cronies
It wouldn’t have mattered either way
So the deal is we are going to pay them these 300 millions for land ?
@cortisola: how about writing the €300 million off against what we the taxpayer paid to their victims of abuse and slavery instead!
@Gerry Carroll: To get these €300 million scratched we have to go to court which will cost us next €100m ;-)
cortisola. Are you the same person who thinks the people voted the government in??
So will they deduct at source the outstanding money’s due to the state and abused and pay them the remainder if any
Good news for a change, well done Peter Boylan.
Na, there is something else really wrong here, there is too much agreement.
I believe when people have had time to consider the new deal , it will start to stink, maybe not as bad as the old deal but there will be a whiff..
Charitable status , is that the same as ‘Nonprofit’ . I totally understand why the catholic church has charitable status , its historical , but giving a new body charitable status? I was under the impression that we finally understood that the Catholic church is a discriminatory organisation , and those organizations do not get charitable status in a republic.
Fecking hell. Common sense prevailing. I feel faint
Alleluia in Excelcius Deo Amen
So will they deduct at source the outstanding money’s due to the state and abused and pay them the remainder if any.
Apparently, it’s been handed over to a trust …run by themselves …..
“leave a comment” what’s the point if they’re not to appear on the thread? The second comment today seems to have walked on someones toes.
Interesting admission by the nuns that the ethics is and would have been their catholic ethics rather than an ethics in line with the law. I admire them for being honest as opposed to most of their supporters including Harris whose powers of analysis have been shown for what they are….. nonexistent !!
Happy Days !!!!!
Happy Days !!!!!
Mmmmmm and rightly so !!!!
What’s the catch !
have your say