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WITH THE ANTI-AUSTERITY Alliance, which includes the Socialist Party, gaining in popularity in recent months the focus is now likely to turn to their policies.
While the Socialists/AAA have gained prominence and won two Dáil by-elections largely off the back of their vociferous opposition to water charges they also have a number of radical economic policies.
Its pre-Budget submission proposed the introduction of a 5 per cent emergency tax on millionaires that would raise as much as €3.3 billion. There’s also a plan to increase the effective income tax on the top 10 per cent of earners which could raise up to €2.6 billion.
The Socialists also want to repudiate the interest and capital payments on the debt Ireland accumulated during the economic collapse that forced it into the Troika bailout which it says would raise around €6.6 billion.
The party would use the money raised to fund a major social housing programme and fund additional public services and lending to small businesses.
Over the weekend, the Dublin West TD Ruth Coppinger indicated on RTÉ Radio that the party would also nationalise some major multinational companies in a bid to secure jobs.
One company specifically cited was Dell computers which employs 2,500 people in Ireland between sites in Limerick and Cherrywood in Dublin. But the company cut 1,900 jobs in Limerick five years ago in a major blow to the region.
During the course of a debate on Saturday with Brian Dowling, Coppinger said: “We’ve seen Dell leaving Limerick. I would have advocated that they should be taken into public ownership, that the workers who work in those industries could run them, could run those industries. We have the skills and capabilities to do that.”
The proposal drew a sarcastic response from the Fine Gael Minister of State Dara Murphy who said several times: “You’re going to nationalise Dell computers, is it?”
But undeterred, Coppinger continued: “Dell that was allowed leave under Fianna Fáil actually – rather than yourselves – which was a highly profitable multinational which left Limerick and left Limerick, by the way, devastated.
“And Limerick has never climbed out of the recession and in fact the biggest protests, by the way, have been in Limerick. The Anti-Austerity Alliance has scored massive successes in Limerick and could have a TD for Limerick. That was the kind of devastation that was left behind when multinationals pulled out.”
The proposal has since been criticised by what the Socialists would call ‘the establishment parties’ with Fianna Fáil’s jobs spokesperson Dara Calleary describing what Coppinger said as “extraordinary” .
“Most people now accept that a modern economy needs a partnership approach between public and private enterprise,” Calleary said in a statement issued yesterday.
“The merest hint that such a policy could be implemented by government would see a flight of companies from the State. However the Socialist Party appears content to put tens of thousands of jobs at risk to pursue a utopian economic model which has failed anywhere it has been tried.”
While Dara Murphy also released a statement in the aftermath of his participation in the RTÉ Radio debate, describing talk of nationalisation of multinationals as “wreckless and ludicrous”.
He said it would “place a massive burden on taxpayers and the public finances, and bring us back to the dark days of the banking crisis” when all the country’s main banks were bailed out and some were fully nationalised.
“It would destroy rather than create jobs,” Murphy claimed.
We contacted Ruth Coppinger this morning but have not received a response. However we did speak to her colleague Paul Murphy, the recently-elected Dublin South-West TD, who said the party proposed the idea when Dell cut 1,900 jobs in 2009.
“As well as the 2,000 jobs there were 5,000 jobs lost in surrounding services and it had benefited from €100 million in grants and tax reliefs. Even the building they were in was state-funded. Limerick was devastated as a result of Dell’s decision,” he said.
“What we argued at the time is that instead of the State standing idly by it should have stepped in and nationalised it and brought it into public ownership.”
Murphy said a similar move was taken by the Socialist government in France in 1982 when it nationalised the computer company Groupe Bull and merged it with most of the rest of the country’s computer industry. Groupe Bull was later re-privatised in 1994.
How would it work in Ireland? Murphy explained that it would involve Dell’s Irish operations only. He said: “You would do a deal with Dell and their computer manufacturers and develop a market, develop a real, sustainable industrial base in Ireland. Dell would have an opportunity to keeping the jobs in Ireland.”
On the threat of big corporations leaving or not even setting up in Ireland if they faced the risk of being taken into state ownership, Murphy said that Ireland should “not be intimidated by such threats”.
He continued: “The entire political establishment in Ireland has been about tax competition and enticing companies into Ireland. That hasn’t worked in terms of keeping multinational jobs in Ireland.
“Dell moved to Poland and then moved to China in order to get the cheapest possible labour. I don’t think we should allow ourselves to be intimidated by threats that corporations will go. We have to act to defend jobs.”
So if a left-wing government came to power is widescale nationalisation of major companies’ Irish operations in the offing?
Murphy said that “it’s not the first thing a left government would do” citing instead the aforementioned debt repudiation but it would be policy that if corporations threaten to leave they would be nationalised.
“Over time, yes, a vision of a socialist society involves key sectors being nationalised but that doesn’t mean it would be the first thing a left government would do,” Murphy added.
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what a dope Ruth is, is there no fitness to practice for TDs?
So much for the cuckoo only coming in April….
National school economics at best
Unfortunately she is a reflection of her electoral district. Time to fund the schools in SW Dublin as clearly they are lacking some proper education when these loons can rise to power so easily.
Be afraid folks, be very afraid. These people write their economic policy on the back of a cigarette box with a crayon. Shows how bad things have got for the main parties when these people are winning elections.
I don’t they are literate enough to write.
It makes perfect sense to nationalise the globalist parasites.
Here, Lone Hurler, don’t be insulting those of us who went to school in Dublin South West. Some of us are very bright, wonderful and intelligent people, excuse yourself.
Also Ruth is Dublin West. Paul Murphy is Dublin South West.
Given that Fianna Fáil nationalised bank debt, I’m not sure they’re in much of a position to throw stones.
Claiomh I seriously hope you are being sarcastic. The reason Dell is successful is because it is ran by a business. The Irish government can’t even supply water and the socialists think they could lead a computer manufacturer? What we would end up with are slow computers, delivered late.
Mrs unpronounceable, I think I love you – in fact, I’m pretty sure I do live you. XX. Grey eyed Athena, you see through this pile of poo
Ireland nationalized the debts of the banks to the tune of €100+ billion which bankrupted the nation.
The Socialist Party opposed this economic lunacy from the start while the largest parties in the state FF & FG fully supported this ransack of the country.
Who proved to be the economic illiterates in this regard?
The plant and machinery from the Dell facility could have been taken into public ownership to begin a domestic computer manufacturing operation and retain employment with the necessary skills and expertise already in place.
The primary market would initially be the state which is how fledgling industries are often supported by their host nations. This was the case with Bull SAS Computer in France and continues right up to the present with the French Nuclear agency (CEA) and other state agencies being key customers of Bull’s.
Its time for a coddler cut and paste.
Is it true that coddler is actually Paul Murphy trolling the journal
Theres a cut and paste for that too.. It involves being too busy in dail blah blah
The great thing about nationalisation is that you can manufacture unsustainable jobs.. Its quite clear that Dell became a multinational company due to policies of nationalisation… And every country where militant socialism has been tried has been a success..its called underpants gnomes economics.
1. Collect underpants
2.?
3.profit
And then what, you think by nationalizing “dell” you’ll have any access to their intellectual property or just 1600 people doing nothing and subsidised by the state. Sounds like Stalinist economics
France is a basket case economy, it’s best and brightest go to London for real jobs in a real economy
Ah, Sheik, my little snugglebear, you’re so romantic. <3
The roots and profitability of many of the private multinationals lie in public ownership. So for example the foundation technology of the Internet (TCP/IP) was not developed by private enterprise. It was created by the U.S Dept of defense and assorted other U.S government agencies and universities. After decades of research and development in the public sector, the powerful new communications technology was following market dogma handed over to the private sector.
In some cases the state’s intellectual property was stolen and taken into the private sector (see Cisco Systems history for example) and they have been profiting massively from it ever since. All the IT manufacturers including Dell owe a large part of their growth over the past 20 years to that privatization of public intellectual property.
I went to school in Dublin South west and there are some schools that are terribly underfunded
Wait, so nationalised industry is “schoolyard economics” in all and any circumstances?
If I recall correctly, Statoil didn’t work out so badly for the Norwegians. Funnily enough, Statoil’s Irish operations are now owned by a certain Denis O’Brien. Think there may be a lesson in there somewhere.
Equally, the worst service I’ve received from a public body ever was the National Driving License Service, a private company providing a “service” on behalf or the Road Safety Authority.
So, yes, “nationalising Dell” is patently absurd, but that’s not to say that there aren’t particular sectors or functions where it would be preferable.
Coddler, private enterprise made it flourish. A lot of everyday tech has military/government origins but unfortunately they’re not very good at marketing for mass consumption. That’s what private enterprise is for.
Dell weren’t making anything other than PCs which itself as a technology is on the wane. Unlikely a nationalised Dell plant would have the enterprising skills to open new markets with new tech given how difficult it is already for a private company to do that with entrepreneurial CEOs at their head.
J,
I think you’ll find that the government is excellent at “marketing for mass consumption” when they choose to be. It’s what passes for democracy in large parts of the world.
The engineers and technicians at Dell were more than capable of developing their own PC/laptop design for the domestic market. A tablet/laptop could have been designed and manufactured for the school market for example. This is how start up industries are developed and supported by their home nations in many countries across the globe.
people before profit td Joan Collins claimed 119k in expenses and Boyd barrett claimed 130k since 2011 socialism Irish style.
It would also have made perfect economic sense to nationalise a number of other industries to support the country’s strategic interests.
For example, the sugar factories in Carlow and Mallow should have been taken into public ownership to maintain rural employment and a market for locally produced sugar beet. Instead they were sold by Greencore to ride the property bubble and now we import expensive sugar from abroad.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/agri-business/revived-sugar-industry-will-create-300-jobs-and-generate-250m-235353.html
Codswallop
Where are you getting those expense figures from Paul?
Here’s the 2011 expenses listings which has Boyd Barrett on €32k and Collins on €30k
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlxJrxiwB44XdGJZcG0tUVI2aWVGZzdkUThWZG1FTHc#gid=0
Was that a genuine mistake or are you intent on spreading lies?
Coddler, government supported startups at least require a new idea. Assembling electronic parts imported from China is old hat. There’s no real intellectual property in that. Ireland isn’t big enough to sustain laptops/tablets for schools anyway.
@ voodoo….. they were Irish HQ’d operations…. she’s talking about part of a US multinational…. madness!
Coddler
If you read the commentary on Socialist expenses you would have seen the words “since 2011…….”
Have you an apology cut so that you can copy and paste?
J,
Startups don’t necessarily require intellectual property (IP). There is little IP in turning sugar beet into sugar and yet the industry provided local jobs for decades.
The school/education sector is just one possible market. There are plenty others especially in the government sector. This is how much of German industry was sustained and developed with the state purchasing much of the output as the industries grew.
Hmmm….
I think the notion of taking Dell Limerick into public hands is taking an ideology way beyond practicality.
It was already mainly an assembly operation from parts sourced as part of Dell’s global operations, typically manufactured in China & East Asia.
There is no way in the fiercely competitive & wafer thin margin business of IT Hardware manufacture that an independent operation in Limerick, in private or public hands was going to work.
IMO the place for public ownership lies in infrastructure, natural monolpolies etc., including health care. Water, electricity, public transport, fixed wire communications & telephone services. These have already proven there is no benefit to private ownership and many strategic disadvantages.
But the manufacture of computers? No. That crosses a line into obvious private enterprise in non essential goods that just begs the question where to stop at public ownership?
If we actually had meaningful democracy – a government that actually represented majority citizens – we could easily ensure adequate living standards and work opportunities without resorting to such intereference in the business of private enterprise.
I witnessed numerous attempts by governments to salvage the motor industry in the UK. Unless the issues are demonstrably temporary and readily resolved with liquidity and time, such efforts are doomed to failure.
Coddler, population of Germany versus population of Ireland.
Careful now, mind your glasshouse! :-)
The attempt to smear Boyd Barrett and Collins is very clear Hugh. 3 years expenses for virtually all TDs will be around the 100k mark but no comment from Mr. Dunne on that.
By the way, here’s millions that FF/FG/Labour and SF take from the exchequer each year under the Electoral Acts legislation and Party Leaders allowance
In 2013 the figures were
FF €2.8 million
FG €4.9 million
SF €1.8 million
Labour €3.0 million
coddler im with you, if it were not for the fact that our politicians would be involved because as sure as day follows night it would be sold off at taxpayers expense to a “friend”
coppinger et al have idea’s that frighten the bejasus out of normal reasonable people, their reaction ridicule and belittle
you can lead a horse to water n all
Coddler
You are so terribly wrong about the production of sugar from beet having no IP involved! At the time that we ceased the production of beet based sugar I this State there were over three hundred protected patents moved in the production process.
Are you also unaware of the need for customers to purchase that same output and don’t tell me that you can obtain distribution on a price basis as the sugar business is so competitive that the margins are as slim as anything and discounts aren’t available to buy market share.
How little you really know but you do make some noise out of hot air!
@thelonehurler What a patronizing comment
I got them from the horses mouth so to speak Collins on late debate rte radio lastweek and Boyd barrett on radio Saturday afternoon .
Ah, nothing like a bit of Stalinism to make the unprofitable a burden on the state.
since 2011 as I originally stated.
Hugh,
You’ve just make the case for nationalization of sugar industry then. If there is such expertise required to manufacture sugar from beet, then it needed to be retained within the Irish economy to protect jobs and not discarded in the search for property bubble profits as Greencoe did. In addition, as the sugar industry was in public hands until 1991 then it’s likely that many of those 300 patents were generated while under public ownership and so are the intellectual property of the Irish state.
Also, it appears that the government doesn’t agree with your position on the viability of the sugar production either:
http://www.agriland.ie/news/calls-return-irish-sugar-industry/
“Deputy Heydon explained how Ireland exited the production of sugar beet in 2006 following a decision by the then Government which was later found by the EU Court of Auditors to be flawed and based on out of date information.
“As an island nation, it was a mistake that has left our expanding food and drink companies paying a hefty price per tonne to import sugar and more importantly leads to difficulties for them in securing their supply of critical ingredients.
“The successful negotiation of the Common Agricultural Policy by Minister for Agriculture, Simon Coveney, secured the hard fought for abolition of sugar beet quotas by 2017. This now paves the way for Ireland to re-commence sugar production and re-enter the markets.
He continued: “I want to see this Government support the ongoing efforts to re-establish this valuable industry. While the business model will need to stand on its own merits to be successful, there is much structural and technical support that can be provided by the departments of Enterprise and Agriculture as well as Enterprise Ireland. I am calling on the Government today to provide those supports.”
Mr. Mole,
I think you’ll find that it was neo liberal capitalism which made the debts of the bankrupt banks a burden on the state for generations to come.
it’s clear to me ff/ fg/ lab politicians are in politics for money nothing else but these Collins ,Boyd barrett and others who play the in touch with the common man nonsense while claiming immoral expenses are horrible people.
not a genuine mistake or a attempt to spread lies it’s a fact admitted to by both people on radio .
there all doing it so it’s alright , it dosent sit right coddler people before profit and anti austerity alliance claiming such riches off the state and as regards the other parties claiming I wouldn’t expect anything different from them., 2 wrongs and you know the rest.
The mask slips.
Nationalise everything and pay for nothing. These loons are one stop away from a a halting site.
Do ya do weddins’ boss?
Ireland could become the new Zimbabwe. It is not that long ago that Zimbabwe issued its first billion dollar note. The country is teeming with money; everybody is a billionaire.
Commercial banks create money from thin air every time they issue a loan.
Bank of England (2007)
“By far the largest role in creating broad money is played by the banking sector…
when banks make loans they create additional deposits for those that have borrowed.”
http://www.neweconomics.org/publications/entry/where-does-money-come-from
Why has this not resulted in Zimbabwe style hyper inflation across the globe?
I think you need to go back to square one with the economics lessons Coddler.
He’s at square 1 that’s the problem.
Either..
Around the globe generations of economists stare in disbelief at their computer screens as monetary prophet Coddler O’Toole stumbles upon a genius theory which promises to cure all of societies ills,
“Eh, how bout we just like eh, make up the money?”
Or maybe, perhaps, he might have gone wrong somewhere. i’m not sure.
It’s highly ironic that a socialist like myself has to explain to the arch capitalists where the money which fuels the free market system actually comes from.
If you have any evidence that the commercial banks don’t create money when they issue loans, you should call the Bank Of England immediately and let them know they’re grossly mistaken.
They’ll be waiting with baited breath……………….
thats what happens when you elect single issue candidates, the rest of their ideas are poorly thought out.
in fairness the socialist party and the socialist workers party do a nice marketing job with their more cuddly names like AAA and people before profit
As opposed to the parish pump geniuses the sheeple continually vote in?
Wow.
A glimpse of what it would be like under a socialist party. We’d all be poor.
But equally poor so that’s ok.
A country entirely dependent on state handouts. Swathes of housing owned by the state. No FDI.
I wonder how that would work out. Pity there’s no example of this utopia anywhere that we could benchmark against…
Coddler will be along shortly with some plagiarised argument in support of nationalisation of MNCs.
Yeah, cut & paste socialism…
Strawman, strawman, strawman. Oh did you star in the Wizard of Oz then?
None of these clowns will create a job , Higgins would have us all living in Cuba with his hero Fidel , I have yet to hear one positive from this shower , they must have noticed that Socialism has not worked
Apparently not. Coppinger recently described the Russian revolution as a beacon for workers everywhere
Our very own national laughing stocks.
The AAA and SF in power. We could have our very own version of North Korea. Wouldn’t that be fun.
Along with the cult of personality. They’d control the weather and everything.
So we are going to emulate Venezuela . I can tell you we should be very afraid indeed what planet are these people from this crap has never worked and never will wake up people please even if that means paying the fecking water bill!!
Declan
My worry is that one of this Trio is a secondary school teacher who has responsibility for teaching our children!
What In the name of all that’s holy has this loon been at in the classroom and who has been supervising her?
Declan Venezuela under Chavez weren’t far left enough, according to Coppinger.
State socialism. Worked really well in Albania and the USSR.
State Socialism creating a booming China
Not to mention those other ‘success’ stories, North Korea, Cuba and Ceaucescu’s Romania.
It was actually the Chinese Communist party’s embrace of western capitialism that created a booming China. China is socialist / communist in name only.
Might as well start building the wall now. I’ll take the outskirts of Derry City, you take Warrenpoint. In about a century we’ll meet up in Clones and share a small dinner in celebration.
You’re payin’ by the way.
Booming for some but not as long as you aren’t one of the workers doing 12 hours shifts 7 days a week.
Scorpio China is a totally centralized economy with all banks in state control and also all transport and all infrastructure centrally controlled
No one individual is allowed to own any large business
Mark there are no Denis O Briens in China controlling the media
In China, its the Media according to the Government / Party
To be fair, it’s no sillier than the Magic Money Tree stuff which their shills keep posting here.
This U.S. economist believes in the magic money tree:
“When it comes to lending, this is the arrangement: The federal government allows licensed banks to create an infinite amount of money out of thin air, and charge interest on it…….”
http://mikenormaneconomics.blogspot.ie/2014/11/dont-bank-on-that-econ-textbook.html
Is he a Socialist Party shill?
Coddler,
You make me have a good giggle every day in here.
There you go folks, this is the genius of the AAA that many in here have been supporting/voting, only because they have shouted the loudest about Water.
Let’s vote more of them in. It’d be great. I could give up my career as it won’t matter if I work nor not. We’ll all have the same in the AAA socialist utopia.
Jobs for everyone..!
Even in a factory where the staff own the company, but can’t make anything because the multinational that they took the factory off, has all the patents and intellectual rights to the products produced there.
What will they do all day you ask?
Not a lot, but they could go on strike every day for better conditions.
But they own it? They’ll be striking against themselves?
I know, great idea from absolute geniuses Isn’t it.
As I said, I have a giggle every day.
Mainly because I know that although they have a few TD’s, they’re is not a hope in hell that they will get any semblance of power.
Keep up the struggle comrade.
“patents and intellectual rights to the products produced there”
There are school kids building computers in their sheds. The engineers and technicians at Dell were more than capable of developing their own PC/laptop design for the domestic market. A tablet/laptop could have been designed and manufactured for the school market for example. This is how start up industries are developed and supported by their home nations in many countries across the globe.
Now, do you have any comment magic money tree?
Haha…!
You are great value Coddler.
“Magic money tree”…!!
Keep them coming, you’re a complete parody at this stage.
Hahaha..!
Magic money tree….
Coddler its not as simple as a bunch of engineers dropping tools, getting out the whiteboard and designing a new laptop from scratch.
1) Almost all electronic assembly uses a variety of parts sourced from a variety of vendors. Having a company the size of Dell influences competitive procurement pricing that would not be available to your would-be national vendor
2) If your Ireland Co-op PC provider wishes to build PCs from scratch, where does the fabrication of the chips come from? Ah, the newly nationalized Intel
3) The newly nationalized Intel loses all rights to manufacture using their fabrication techniques and technologies, so has to start building this up from scratch.
What do you think the cost of this PC for the Irish market would be? Without Dell’s competitive procurement pricing, assembly is much more expensive. Without outside chip fabrication a massive capital investment in fabrication is required, being careful not to tread on the patents of others.
I suggest you go on to google patents and do a bit of discovery for yourself on what’s patented. You’ll find that everything from chip design, to chip manufacturing, to translation software that creates blueprints from design tools and languages, to the process for carving silicon wafers etc – all of it is patented. All of it is IP. Unless you use techniques which are out of date, you will be paying patent royalties on everything from design to fabrication to manufacturing.
If you ignore IP law, Ireland becomes a pariah for IP and export regulations for US companies would blacklist Irish companies and employees from seeing IP, and from any technology transfer.
So you are trying to supply a local-only market with only locally produced artifacts. The price is too high to compete on the export market, and too high for the local market because you have to re-invent the wheel every time you need to keep up with competition. You’d like to cut costs but all those big state pensions must be paid at Ireland Co-op PCs, and there’s wage demands from the unions.
Now everyone realises they can buy cheaper PCs online, produced in an international globalized market with sharing of IP and ideas, and business falls for Ireland Co-op PCs. So what does the socialist government do next? Places massive tariffs on imports.
And where do we end up? Back in 1950s Ireland, staring Coddler O’Toole as the protectionist Eamonn De Valera
Exactly.
This whole policy would make you wonder if anyone in the AAA has any real world experience in manufacturing, business or any other sector you’d care to name.
They had 5 years to think about nationalising Dell, from when they first mentioned it.
Yet, even after this time, they still don’t have any clue how they could do it, or how it could be cost effective.
Coddler, are there any of your comrades that have actual real world work experience in management of any sector that could advise you?
You’re usually very quick to cobble together a cut and paste post, I look forward to your response to the above post.
Ronan,
There are small specialist IT manufactures all over the globe and none of the challenges you listed have stopped them. Some of them even grow into large corporations themselves as Vestel did in Turkey with a lot of support from the government.
Dell Limerick was primarily an integration site where they bought in the various modules: motherboards, screens, chassis etc and assembled them together into a full system. It wasn’t rocket science.
You’ve just proven my point, Coddler, not your own. Dell was an integration site, and dell had competitive pricing based on volume for all of those motherboards, screens, chassis etc. A new operator without Dell’s export market and scale, would not have the same purchase price for these components. Instead they’d have to rely on volume based on your local laptops for schools initiative, and other (presumably forced) state contracts
Vestel? I had to google them. They seem to be an umbrella group for low-brand toasters and TVs. Is cheap eastern European consumer appliances and electronics to be the saviour of the Irish socialist economy?
No Ronan. You were claiming that the new Ireland Co-op PC had to develop a full system from the silicon up which it clearly doesn’t and never did.
“where does the fabrication of the chips come from? Ah, the newly nationalized Intel”
As I said, there are many relatively small manufactures supplying niche and domestic markets around the world. Medion is another supplying the German market primarily.
Research Machines in the U.K.is another example.
No, Coddler, I said if they don’t want to pay MORE than their international competitiors for chips, they would have to manufacture themselves.
My point is that the price of the Ireland Co-op PC would be more than an equivalent powered PC produced by international players IMMEDIATELY, and would require state contracts to survive (state subvention, breaking european procurement rules) and/or protectionist tariffs on internationally produced goods, like we had prior to joining the EU.
Your policies of national-only industry are the failed 60-year old policies of Dev’s time in charge.
Oh, and a quick google tells me Medion are owned by Lenovo – kind of a big operator – and naming niche suppliers doesn’t mean that a small Irish PC outfitter would get a good price out of them.
Research Machines develop their software in ….. drum roll …. INDIA!
Will the Ireland Co-op PCs company also outsource? What about Irish jobs?
Their laptops are rebranded ASUS laptops. This is a 3rd-party PC partner provider, which outsources educational development software to India, supporting a grand total of 2000 jobs in a much much bigger market than ours, and they don’t manufacture PCs anymore, they just fit software.
I can google faster than you can invent purported evidence to your bogus economics, which is saying something.
Keep them coming though
Coddler is busy scowering the inter-web for a retort right now… he’s had to wolf down his smoked salmon and avocado sushi wrap and is going to only go for the one glass of Cristal – its gonna be a good one. Let’s watch.
Oh right so. Research machines ‘only’ supports 2000 jobs. Let’s turn our noses up at that in a city devastated by unemployment.
What about Medion? Hoe many do they employ? There are hundreds of smaller operators operating in the IT channel whose business model could have been copied or adapted using the skills and expertise developed by the Dell employees over the decades. A fraction of the €100 million in subsidies which Dell received from the Irish state would have helped them make the transition.
We desperately alternatives to the crumbling capitalist system of mass unemployment, mass emigration, families and children flung onto the streets to protect the balance sheets of the banks, people dying on hospital trollies, minimum wage zero hour contract jobs etc etc etc
We are too far gone for assembly and low end manufacturing jobs, that competitive ship has sailed.
There are no more fruit of the looms, no more Waterford crystals, no more seagates, no more digitals, no more dells. The jig is up. You cannot competitively pay people 3 times what the international market does, and still compete with your product globally.
We’re in an ugly transition right now with a stop gap of call centres which is dwindling by now.
We need education, education and more education. Your proposal of state capital supported uncompetitive industry, further supported by state expenditure on public contracts is an attempt to recreate an economic model that failed 40 years ago.
There are no living wage jobs that require a days training anymore. People need lab skills, basic dev skills, high end manufacturing skills. We need to train people for the new industrial realities in Ireland, not overtax those working in said industries to support uncompetitive industry.
Keep it coming Ronan. As a passive lurker of the Journal, I have often seen Coddler with his long winded posts espousing revolutionist and extreme socialist theories only for people to give up as he copies and pastes paragraphs and paragraphs of ‘theory’ effectively killing the debate with boredom.
It is good that someone brings him and his party to task over their loony left policies. Dev tried this inward looking isolationist economics back in the 1930′s and it was an absolute disaster. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when in 2014 people actually still believe in this type of economics given the obvious outcomes and numerous failures we have as examples, the latest being Venezuela where they they now have food rationing as a result of similar isolationist economic polices.
What would the socialists say if the UK/USA/Germans decided to nationalise the oversea arms of Irish companies? They’d have no objective I’d assume…
No, they wouldn’t. Corporations don’t care about what country they originated from, it’s meaningless.
Keep taking your big pay packets home you 3 socialist. It’s over €230000 and you’r happy to take and spend and donate it. Average wage my ass
I think these people need to seek help immediately for either an over exposure to neurotoxins or the abuse of centrally acting drugs.
Ha ha ha ha ha oh yes Ruth don’t forget Microsoft Apple Intel
Hello Seattle, this is the Microsoft collective phoning from Dublin, send us some work …erm or money…..hello! anyone there?
And all the pharmaceutical companies!
The thing about the socialist party (or the AAA if you prefer to name them after their beard) if they’re grand so long as stick to telling people what they’re agin
Once they let people know what they’re actually for things go pear shaped
Perfect summation.
Ah, the attack the left stories from Hugh begin to show their head once again. One would think, that there will be an election called soon.
Nobody needs to attack the left, because no educated person takes them seriously
So would the liberal party prefer for Hugh to shut his mouth and not report on such items? Very tolerant bunch the lefties.
It’s just Hugh is so predictable now, it’s actually quite funny.
Have you other examples or are you running on emotion steam Bob Moore?
Predictable or not what kind of ticks are representing the socialists.
Dunno. Ask Nick Clegg. I was unaware that the Liberal party had opened an Irish branch. Must check it out and apply for membership asap.
It is hardly attacking the left if the woman said it herself. The joy of watching the pinko blush to claret red spectrum of politics fulminate when asked hard questions is surpassed only by the joy of coital climacteria.
Hugh must be looking for a Denis O’Brien job with his daily attack pieces on the left
It’s a shame that you can tell who the author of an article is just by looking at the headline.
Sure it’s grand, when Ruth gets into power there’ll only be state controlled press. Long live the politboro!
These lads might get you free water which is just as well as you’ll have no job when they thrash the real economy.
Why in hell would we put the country in thire hands.
Sinn Fein espouses very similar views…
The problem O’Reilly, is that people are listening to what they all oppose.
They are not delving deeper into the parties philosophies to see what they really want to propose and implement.
They do a decent job of hiding the majority of their mental policies though. But they are still there.
Although, the media is partly to blame as they never grill SF/AAA on their actual policies.
They only interview them about hat they happen to be opposing today.
I say that as someone opposed to Irish Water myself.
Voters need to wake up though and see what they are actually voting for with the extreme left.
Although, and you couldn’t make this up, the populist left policies are actually right wing.
No to property tax.
No to water charge.
These two policies would make the Republican Tea party members proud.
I always knew the left were off the wall, but if anyone wanted further proof this is it,even the slightest threat of nationalisation is enough to prevent companies locating here,and even talking this kind of nonsense is enough to spook the multinationals already here, instead of the extra €billions that they plan to squeeze the likelyhood is to be the very opposite, compulsary state takeover of private companies is one of the reasons they will never get my vote.
So let me get this straight, if a corporation decided to leave Ireland it would be nationalised. Who the hell would set up here in the first place. Total tripe talk from the far left, but to be fair they are sticking with their principles.
I think the headline is misleading, the idea was to buy the plant and keep producing product not step in and take the keys out of their hands
instead we have another empty industrial unit that used to be productive and profitable but not profitable enough compared to relocating to a cheaper labour force
Communists
This is a regurgitated piece from 2009, disguised as a thinly veiled attempt to stick the boot into the socialists from the labour lover Hughie.
She said it at the weekend! 2 days ago!
Did any of you clowns having a go at the author even read it, it’s not 2009. These are thoughts over the weekend. I wouldn’t let her manage a sweet shop, never mind the country.
She was requestioned about it over the weekend, the story has its roots in 2009.
yep but she is still of the same opinion, which is scary. 5 yrs and she still is no wiser
Here Kenny mind your manners and stick to saying only what you would be brave enough to say to someone’s face.
The article clearly states she would have advocated this approach in 09′
Mr Phil what makes you think I wouldn’t say that to her face or your face. She has the intellect of a baboon, no point getting annoyed about it. If you support her, well I won’t spell it out.
I doubt you would call me a “clown” to my face Kenny.
Anyway this political mud slinging is not going to sort out situation, the government should be looking to ease the publics fears not torpedo the oppositions genuine concerns.
Dr Phil does it ever cross your mind that all politicians have responsibility. The government are responsible for running the country and for some poor decision making, but people like Ruth who make out like there is some easy alternatives, in doing so she falsely raises peoples expectancies. There’s no fairies put of gold. Businesses are cold and ruthless, they base their decisions on cold realities not semantics. She would ruin the country
Tom you are presuming that she could ruin the country if elected, only after it has been grossly mis-managed by the current economic policies, as it stands right now we have one side making proposals to mend the damage and the other side using every trick in the book to discredit not only their approach but on a personal level as well.
Excuse me Mr Phil Officer but I heard Coppinger say on George Hook’s show last week that she would nationalize all industry in Ireland.
Also, you do her discredit to say that she wouldn’t have softened her stance since 2009 in any case
Ah, how did I know, before opening the article, that it would be Hugh? You are so busted
Says it all really. So did I.
So the reward a large multinational would get for coming to Ireland is the threat that if they ever leave we’ll force them to hand over a portion of their company (when this proposal is put in the simplest way possible)
I’ve left better policy on the bowl of a toilet..
Attacking the Left will not work. See you 10/12/14
No need to attack the left, She’ll do a good job every time she opens the gob. I think in fairness it should be pointed out that she is that fair left she’s gone off the radar. Nationalise Dell, it would be funny only we’re paying this clown.
Left doing that themselves by speaking
I’m not in the extreme left and I’m going on the 10th.
Are you saying that only those on the left will be there?
Because I know a lot of people going that are not on the left.
This isn’t a “We all support the extreme left” March.
It’s a “Irish Water” is an omnishamblesarch.
What you say is true but it’s the extreme left who have hijacked the ant water and are trying to turn it into a ant everything match and they are the leaders of these Marches so by marching is supporting them personally paying for water is better than marching behind Murphy of Ruth
I never mentioned the 10th. Good luck to ya. Hope it’s a sunny day
Tom, my comment was in reply to the first comment.
He implies that the March on the 10th is in support of the AAA.
Sorry Danny :)
Limerick has been utterly failed by the state in so many ways for far too long. However the people of Limerick are not without blame themselves when they repeatedly elect the likes of Willie O’Dea (reelected after resigning in disgrace) Michael Noonan and Jan O’Sullivan. A trio of snout in the trough fat cats only interested in maintaining the status quo.
In reality though, the policies we have now don’t work.
I’m not saying this is something good because I can’t judge how it would affect the economy, but we nationalised billions in banking debt and those clowns are still in the Dail. I’d much rather nationalise jobs we are about to lose than to nationalise someone else’s debt.
I don’t understand how these politician’s get such hatred. They might not have the best ideas but the difference is that they seem to have good intentions for the country as a whole, unlike the other shower of idiots who are just in it for themselves. I’d prefer to be represented by a stupid person with good intentions than a genius who’s in it just for them.
Good intentions for the country? A Marxist state is what they want
I don’t think that’s true at all. From what I can see most of them just want some fairness for the ordinary people of this country.
But, no surprise here at all. The same people who moan about government policies, bank bailouts, etc., are the same people who label protesters as crusty hippies and left-wing politicians as communists.
Sean,
This article is about one of the main elements of their manifesto.
Nationalising all industry in the country.
Be honest, would that be in the interest of the country?
If you read the article you would notice that it doesn’t mention nationalising all industry in the country. It mentions nationalising companies who are about to pull out of the country.
No, but she said it was what they want to implement in an interview last week on George Hook.
It is one of the main priorities if they ever got elected to Government.
Did we not “socialise” all the bondholders debts on to the Irish people, or am I wrong?
She is a complete dope.
Coddler is gas! Follows his socialist overlords and belives everything he reads in “newspapers”…
“Must copy and paste for my masters,
“Must copy and paste for my masters,
“Must copy and paste for my masters,
“Must copy and paste for my masters,”…and so on.
AAA are imbeciles who like to grandstand for effect and column inches. Not a brain cell or opposable thumb between them. Jaysus! Even the unions hate these clowns.
You might want to start labelling these articles as opinion Hugh, because they’re about as close to balanced, hard-news journalism as one would find in The Sun. Just look at that headline.
I agree Julian, he’s way to soft on her
The damage Dell did to Limerick when they closed went far beyond the jobs they took away. Restaurants, taxi services, cafes and shops nearby all lost their livelihoods, not to mention the other side-effects caused by high levels of unemployment in the area. The heart of a community ripped out without warning – All because Dell decided they could pay workers less than €5 an hour in Lodz. It’s an event that is likely to be repeated again and again under the capitalist system so don’t be surprised if Google, Facebook and co decide to do likewise if the government ever decide to pluck up the courage to ask them to pay their taxes.
So socialists suggested a way that this kind of destruction could be avoided and five years later you have gutter journalists like Hugh O’Connell following a predictable right-wing line with “news” articles like this. The best part is that he quotes Fianna Fail politicians, the same guys who were in power and sat idly by when Dell did a runner out of the country. Go ahead and be as dismissive as you want Hugh, but the workers and communities who lost out when Dell pulled the plug won’t be agreeing with you.
True enough, it’s well for people in other parts of the country to laugh at the idea of the government doing something drastic to protect jobs, but Limerick took a hiding over this.
No one is laughing.
It’s simply that it wouldn’t have been possible to Nationalise Dell. It is a pie in the sky idea that AAA would never have to follow through on.
Yet they try to rise hopes in people with a policy that could never be achieved.
Have a read if some of the posts above explaining how impossible this would be.
Niall, Dell assembled PCs. Not exactly rocket science, plenty of cheaper places than Ireland to do that. Sure if you had any say in the matter you’d do it yourself. Google, Facebook: different kettle of fish. No disrespect to Dell workers but those jobs are not as easily replaced elsewhere like the Dell ones. Ireland labor costs are too high to sustain much manufacturing/assembly type industries.
The AAA telling Dell workers that the factory could have been nationalised is like going up to a starving person, saying you have something for them and then handing them a photo of a roast dinner.
Not only is it a pointless thinks to do, it’s also cruel.
I didn’t know we had a rocket science industry, that’s great news!
I wouldn’t be too confident about Google and Facebook not being able to move in a heartbeat though, by their very nature they a very international workforce, and most of their staff would have stronger ties to their jobs than they do to Ireland. Google is all sales and support, you could do that anywhere.
Ah hello. Why did Dell have to stay in Limerick. They are not an Irish company. They have provided jobs there for the last 23 years. Its very simple, we are lucky to have companies like them. The vast majority of their income comes from abroad. Its a margin game they are playing. If you are so concerned with supporting local then I hope you shop in your local shop and not Lidl/Aldi or Tesco
A ludicrous idea. Dell have just gone private and there is a lot of uncertainty in the market between themselves and HP. It would be much more beneficial to target a company like Apple (Cork) or Facebook. Nationalise these giants and we’ll be laughing.
Great idea. Hard to believe that successive governments haven’t thought of this before. We would have been out of this mess a long time ago. Well done Ruth!
Capitalism played a relatively progressive role in the development of industry and techniques … it now acts as an absolute fetter on the further development of humankind. Like Stalinism (not communism) it will collapse … because the unplanned private ownership of National “economies” has led to the impoverishment of the lives of increasing numbers internationally … and the destruction of the very planet we inhabit. It has led for example to the fact that in the USA – 0.1% of the population have a combined wealth equal to that of 90% of the population. Similar trends are occurring in all countries.
Such is the power of the propaganda emanating from the those who run and control the system – that the ideas or suggestions for organising our economies and lives differently – exposes the level of brainwashing and derision, underpinning an apparent incapacity for “independent” thought. Like Pavlov’s dog – the instant unified refrain from those who misunderstand how capitalism actually “works” speaks volumes of that “cultivated” mentality and leads to the most inane vilification of any different method of thinking. Some people are “happy” with the crumbs off the tables of the super-rich – others are satisfied with “better the half-a-loaf of bread, than nothing – whilst others try to portray Socialism as the sharing out of the loaf of bread. To continue the metaphor – The reality is that … we built and operate the bakery … we should therefore own and control the bakery – and plan sustainable production to meet the general need. If we make mistakes – they will be our mistakes. However, the extraordinary talent and ideas, not least among all young people – combined with new sustainable methods and techniques – can develop, with government funding/ support, a whole new type of economy. This process would not just happen in Ireland … it would be infectious. A world economy – planned for the needs of the billions … and not the short-term greed of the billionaires and their political representatives … the crooked, careerist, time-servers who got involved in “politics” – not to change the world … but rather to change the size of their wallets. I know whose side I’m on … and it’s not on the side of the greedy, thick gombeens. Up the workers – defeat the water charges and consign those hand-maidens of capitalism to the dustbin of history.
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