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'Homeless people are scared and worried': Soup runs fear HSE inspection will force them to close

Two volunteer soup runs received visits and letters from the HSE’s environmental health section in recent weeks.

TWO SOUP RUNS for the homeless in Dublin city say they might be forced to close after inspections from the HSE.

The co-founders of the two voluntary soup runs – Denise Carroll from the Homeless Street Café and Glenda Harrington from Friends Helping Friends – told The Journal that they both had been visited by the HSE’s environmental health section in recent weeks.

They were subsequently told by letter from that HSE department that an inspection regarding compliance with food safety legislation found the outcome was “unsatisfactory significant” [sic].

Both were told that the non compliance must be rectified before 27 July 2021, on which a follow-up inspection of the soup runs will take place. The letter from the HSE said that failure to comply “may result in formal enforcement action being initiated by the HSE”.

It’s understood that other soup runs who are operated by charities have also been contacted on this issue. 

‘We are not a food business’

However, Carroll and Harrington both said that they could not afford to undertake all the steps outlined by the HSE in the letter and feared they might have to shut down.

They said they were not food businesses (as they were described by the HSE), or charities, but were voluntary soup runs aiming to show kindness to homeless people in the capital.

“Our point is we are not a food business,” Carroll said of the Homeless Street Café. “We are making no profit, we have no managers, no premises. Even though we’re called a ‘street cafe’ we’re just a table on the side of the street and we have volunteers who give us food to share.” Alongside food such as sandwiches and cake, they also distribute tents and sleeping bags. 

She said most if not all of her volunteers are double vaccinated. The food is usually prepared by volunteers in Ratoath and Celbridge, and brought by van in cool boxes and hot boxes by Carroll.

Homeless Street Café was set up five years ago, after Carroll was inspired by seeing a group on Facebook describing how it distributed sandwiches to the homeless.

“I said I will make sandwiches – I was in a position of comfort, where I didn’t realise how many people are in food poverty around us, whether homeless or living in flats or hostels. There is a serious amount of people queuing for this food.”

She and her mother and some other volunteers served 70 people on the first night and she said that these days they regularly serve up to 300 people. Friends Helping Friends serves a similar amount of people on its soup run. Homeless Street Café runs one night a week, while Friends Helping Friends runs two nights a week. 

During the height of the coronavirus restrictions, the Homeless Street Café distributed food by trolley so as not to encourage a crowd to gather, but it is now back to its usual set-up.

Both Harrington and Carroll say they understand the importance of food safety regulation, but are now pleading with the HSE for some leniency based on their specific circumstances – that they are run by volunteers and do not make money.

“This is going to block people from helping,” said Carroll. “I have a group of pensioners who make sandwiches using money from their own pension. This is just relying on people’s good nature – we are no big corporation.”

She said that the fact they serve hundreds of people indicates the need that is there for their soup run. “No one is going to queue on Grafton St for a bowl of stew or a piece of cake if they don’t have a need,” she said. “I understand and welcome any help at all – if the environmental section of the HSE came along and said ‘here are a few tips’, I would welcome that.”

Compliance letter

In its letter to the soup runs the HSE indicated a number of things that need to be carried out to bring them in compliance with food safety legislation.

One of these is monitoring the temperature of food, which both women said they would be able to carry out (they also store the food in appropriate ways depending on whether it is cold or hot, they said).

The HSE also said that “your food business is not registered with the official agency”. Both women dispute that their soup runs are food businesses.

The HSE said that “‘food business’ means any undertaking, whether for profit or not, whether public or private, carrying out any of the activities related to any stage of production, processing and distribution of food”. 

Another HSE concern was that “not all food workers were adequately trained”, and it requires that the soup runs “ensure all food handlers are supervised and trained in food hygiene matters commensurate with their work activities”.

“Basically they are looking for an industrial kitchen and professional catering person,” said Carroll, who co-operates the soup run in a voluntary capacity around her own job as a nurse. 

The HSE also said that at the time of inspection there was no information on the identity of the person who supplied the food, so the soup runs should include this.

A further concern was the absence of handwashing facilities with cold and hot water. If food is pre-packaged, then hand sanitiser will suffice, said the HSE. 

Carroll said that they use gloves and sanitiser, but she wasn’t sure how she would be able to provide handwashing facilities at the side of the street. Harrington hoped to be able to organise sinks for handwashing.

The HSE also asked the soup runs to provide written allergen information on the food.

Both Carroll and Harrington were advised to purchase a ‘Safe Catering Pack’ from the Food Safety Authority of Ireland (FSAI), which they said they were going to do.

“If they could meet us there in the middle somewhere we are more than happy to improve our service any way we can, but what they are proposing will close it,” said Carroll. 

Brian McLoughlin from Inner City Helping Homeless (ICHH) said that the soup runs “are doing fantastic work out there and doing it on a voluntary basis”. He said the ICHH believes a better solution would be for the DRHE (Dublin Regional Homeless Executive) and HSE to “work with them and to help them keep doing what they are doing”.

“Our concern is, what alternative is put in place for people to be fed if they have to close? A lot of the gaps can be because the day services that provide food are closed in the evening, and people in emergency accommodation might not be able to get into them.”

‘It would be tragic to take it away’

Both women said they had built relationships with homeless people through their work, and had been told that the soup runs helped change people’s lives.

Carroll said: “On one side there’s the uncomfortable feeling we do have a lot of poverty around us, we have kids and elderly in poverty. On the other hand [this soup run shows we have a] beautiful outpouring of care. I think it would be tragic to take it away.”

O’Carroll said the changes recommended by the HSE would cost money she doesn’t have, and that she is not able to become a charity as it would take up a huge amount of time and money.

“We wanted to keep it so simple – no money, just kindness. Everything they are saying involves money,” she said. 

Harrington said that she was told all the volunteers who supply food to her soup run would have to have their kitchens inspected:

“Obviously they are not going to just let people come in and assess their house. They’re nearly getting penalised for being kind and wanting to help. We are not opposed to regulation, we are happy enough – we know they are there for a reason. They are there to keep people safe, but they are just unrealistic for us. They want me to rent a fully equipped HACCP-certified kitchen to store equipment and cook there.” 

She also raised the issue of funding the rental of appropriate kitchens: “We are completely unfunded. I’m thinking, if I am taking money from donations is that not wrong? It’s not supposed to be for funding a kitchen. I don’t take cash ever, because I’m not a registered charity.”

Friends Helping Friends has been running for four years. “We’re so upset,” said Harrington. “It’s not possible to do what they’re asking us to do. If the people that were supposed to look after the homeless did their job, we wouldn’t be out there two nights a week. I am devastated for the people that come to my soup run.”

Harrington said some of the homeless people they serve are “genuinely scared, worried – for a lot of people the food is important, the toiletries are important, but for a lot of people it’s the only compassion they get.”

Harrington is determined to continue serving people on the soup run. “I can’t see myself saying to 300 people on the street – ‘right lads, off you pop, no dinner’. I hope it doesn’t come to that.”

The HSE said in a statement that “the primary responsibility of the HSE Environmental Health Service is the protection of public health”.

The HSE Environmental Health Service works under a Service Contract for the Food Safety Authority of Ireland to ensure the relevant food legislation is applied as necessary. All food businesses  must comply with the requirements of food law that is relevant to the business they operate. 

It said that Regulation (EC) No. 852 of 2004 sets out the hygiene rules for all food businesses, such as structure, equipment, food waste, water supply, personal hygiene, heat treatment and training requirements, in addition to provisions applicable to the wrapping and packaging of food.

“Under this Regulation there is also a requirement to develop a food safety management system based on HACCP principles which identifies and controls the hazards that are relevant to the food business in question,” said the HSE.

“Some businesses develop their own in-house food safety management system while others use recognised guides such as the FSAI Safe Catering Pack as a practical and easy to use food safety management system.”

These regulations apply minimum food safety standards to all food businesses, including the voluntary sector, said the HSE. 

Regarding the frequency of inspection of food businesses, it said this is based on the risk to public health, with risk being assessed on a number of criteria including the types of foods being produced, processed and distributed, and the vulnerability of the consumers. Food business operators are required by law to notify the HSE of their intention to carry on a food business.

The Environmental Health Service” endeavours to work with food business operators to encourage an understanding of the legal requirements and to support compliance with the minimum food safety standards regarding structure, operation, safety management systems and staff training and to ensure compliance with food law where non-compliances are found upon inspection”.

Added the HSE:

It is important to note that persons accessing homeless services are among the most vulnerable in our community and may be immunocompromised, therefore the risk of serious illness as a result of food borne infection needs to be kept in mind.

Food services

In September of last year, a UCD report commissioned by the Dublin Regional Homeless Executive (DRHE) found that additional on-street food services for homeless people “are not required”, and recommended that such services be regulated. 

It found that recent years have seen a “dramatic expansion” in on-street, voluntary food services which are unconnected to DRHE-funded day services. 

The review recommended that DRHE should work with the Food Safety Authority of Ireland and the HSE to devise a strategy to manage the growth in on-street provision of food to homeless people by volunteers.

At the time, Inner City Helping Homeless spokesperson and Dublin City Councillor Anthony Flynn said it was an issue that needed to be addressed but that demand for on-street food services had risen in recent years.

“Many services who operate voluntary soup kitchens within the city are not only providing for the homeless community but also for the thousands of people who are living in food poverty across the city,” he said.

“The reality is that these on-street soup kitchens are merely a sticking plaster for a major societal problem, food poverty, as there are 700,000 people, including shockingly 200,000 children, living with food poverty in Ireland.”

- Additional reporting Cónal Thomas

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    Mute Santa Carla
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    May 18th 2017, 8:48 AM

    Amazing singer and the soundtrack to my youth. RIP

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    Mute John B
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    May 18th 2017, 5:18 PM

    @abcyz: perhaps the mind that produces creativity has the side effect of being depression and addiction prone. RIP

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    Mute abcyz
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    May 18th 2017, 5:21 PM

    @John B: I’m talking about no talent shows like the voice X factor etc contestants who are strung along by Kian & his employer Louis & his employer Simon

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    Mute Shane Cormican
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    May 19th 2017, 1:44 AM

    @Santa Carla: your still young son!!

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    May 19th 2017, 7:53 AM

    @John B: do not romanticise suicide. No matter how bad anyone is feeling talking to someone is the only thing that will help. You’re brain will tell you it’s the best thing to do but your brain is sick and it’s lying to you. I know you’re not trying to romanticise suicide but statements like that don’t help. If anyone is feeling unwell or having these thoughts, especially men, please ask for help. We cannot do without you no matter what your brain is telling you.

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    Mute Havid Dickey
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    May 18th 2017, 8:53 AM

    An absolute hero of mine, and a prominent voice in my youth with Soundgarden, Temple Of The Dog, Audioslave, etc.

    Arguably the finest male American singer, alongside Jeff Buckley, of the past 25 years.

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    Mute Thinck
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    May 18th 2017, 9:17 AM

    @Havid Dickey:

    And almost 20 years to the day of Jeff Buckleys passing

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    Mute David Murphey
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    May 18th 2017, 9:26 AM

    @Havid Dickey: agree. Incredible voice.

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    Mute Titus Groan
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    May 18th 2017, 9:29 AM

    “Be Yourself”… one of my all time favourite songs.

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    Mute John Conroy
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    May 18th 2017, 1:54 PM

    @Havid Dickey: he’s in the conversation for greatest rock singers imho

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    Mute Piotrek Król
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    May 18th 2017, 8:55 AM

    This is a complete shock, and a very tough one to take.

    RIP Chris. An absolute legend.

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    Mute Thinck
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    May 18th 2017, 9:18 AM

    Himself, Layne Staley, Eddie Vedder and Scott Weiland were the best vocalists of a generation and now only one remains

    Very sad

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    Mute Matt Donovan
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    May 18th 2017, 10:31 AM

    @Thinck: nail on the head Thinck. It’s a sad day for music.

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    Mute Ryan Comiskey
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    May 18th 2017, 10:44 AM

    @Thinck: lol – Eddie Vedder? The rest I agree with.

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    Mute Mark Byrne
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    May 18th 2017, 10:50 AM

    @Ryan Comiskey: there’s no one better than Eddie.

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    Mute Mark Byrne
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    May 18th 2017, 10:51 AM

    @Thinck: 100%

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    Mute Ted Logan
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    May 18th 2017, 10:52 AM

    Line from Black Hole Sun – “No one sings like you anymore” seems very apt this morning.

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    May 18th 2017, 10:53 AM

    @Thinck: Jesus when you say it like that.

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    May 18th 2017, 11:55 AM

    @Ryan Comiskey: jog on troll. This is not about personal taste or your stupid point scoring

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    Mute Quentin Moriarty
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    May 18th 2017, 5:57 PM

    @Thinck: Steve Perry of Journey tops them all

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    Mute Sean @114
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    May 18th 2017, 9:03 AM

    Soundtrack to my college years along with Nirvana, RATM and Pearl Jam. A legend.

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    Mute Ferg Breen
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    May 18th 2017, 9:11 AM

    Horrible. Just horrible. A stunning voice and an unbelievable musician and by all accounts a lovely man. Just yesterday I was bursting a blood vessel trying to sing along to him in the car on the way home from work.
    Black days indeed.
    He will be so so sadly missed. Whatever love I have to give is for his family and friends today.

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    May 18th 2017, 8:53 AM

    I’m in shock.

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    Mute Scundered
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    May 18th 2017, 7:03 PM

    @Alan Cooke: a very talented one though, who despite his addiction went on to become so much more than a common troll.

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    Mute Seamus Mc Meel
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    May 18th 2017, 7:56 PM

    @Alan Cooke: Just another talentless troll.

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    Mute Gary Griffin
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    May 18th 2017, 9:06 AM

    I’m in shock and in tears. One of my favourite singers of all time! A passionate performer and soulful lyricist. RIP Chris, gone far too soon!

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    Mute John Smith
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    May 18th 2017, 8:55 AM

    Been listening to Chris Cornell since the early ’90′s, so shocked. Amazing singer, RIP.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TksqEIl1uxU&ab_channel=Micheleland

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    May 18th 2017, 9:25 AM

    @John Smith: beautiful voice, nobody codes that without auto tune anymore https://youtu.be/x7JDBMrzMcw

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    Mute David
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    May 18th 2017, 9:17 AM

    Actually effected by a celebrity death for the first time. Legend.

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    Mute Sean
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    May 18th 2017, 10:21 AM

    @David: affected

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    Mute Eimear Borgman
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    May 18th 2017, 3:18 PM

    @David: agreed, so so sad, massive part of my teenage years to this day. And what an amazing live performer. Will be sorely missed.

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    Mute Cathal Finnerty
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    May 18th 2017, 8:58 AM

    Black Days

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    Mute Ken Pepper
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    May 18th 2017, 9:41 AM

    Black Hole Sun….a song you never get tired of hearing.
    Performer of one of the most underrated Bond Themes too.
    RIP

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    May 18th 2017, 9:56 AM

    I love his Bond theme, a real growl to it. RIP.

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    Mute David O Connell
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    May 18th 2017, 9:17 AM

    This is shocking news. One of the very best voices ever!

    Find him on iPod, CD, vinyl, whatever your preferred way of listening and turn it up LOUD!

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    May 18th 2017, 9:04 AM

    Absolutely fantastic singer and performer. RIP.

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    Mute Dan O'Connor
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    May 18th 2017, 9:00 AM

    An absolute legend. R.I.P

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    Mute Robert Woodward
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    May 18th 2017, 9:33 AM

    Wow what a great loss to music , great singer one of the voices of the nineties. I always thought the bond theme song was really underrated

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    Mute Eamonn Sheen
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    May 18th 2017, 9:04 AM

    This news has floored me. RIP

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    Mute Alan Morrissey
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    May 18th 2017, 9:36 AM

    Jesus. What a complete and utter shock! One of the great voices in rock and Soundgarden were a fantastic band. Ultramega OK, Louder Than Love, Badmotorfinger, Superunknown & Down On The Upside is a brilliant run of albums for any band to have in their back catalogue. Saw them in Dublin on the King Animal tour in 2013 & it was a brilliant gig. Had waited years to hear them play and they didn’t disappoint (Limo Wreck was my highlight!). It was great to see them back up running and I was really looking forward to the new album. R.I.P.

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    Mute Felicity Hensen
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    May 18th 2017, 9:43 AM

    His solo gig in the Olympia was one of the best gigs I’ve been to – as was the STP one there. Happened to listen to four of his songs through various incarnations during the night. Epic voice and extremely talented.

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    Mute Havid Dickey
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    May 18th 2017, 2:09 PM

    @Felicity Hensen: At that Olympia gig when he did “When I’m Down” with the gramophone mic’ed up. One of the highlights of my gig going life.

    @Alan Morrissey: Limo Wreck. What a tune!

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    Mute Art Attack Head
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    May 18th 2017, 6:01 PM

    @Felicity Hensen: was also at that gig. Was very cool

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    Mute The Bad Beard Dude
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    May 18th 2017, 11:25 AM

    Fond memories of this tune and snakebite in Fibbers back in the day. Blackhole Sun was one of the most played videos at the time when MTV showed music videos. Very fond memories of that time and this was a big part of that. So sad to hear of his passing. RIP Chris

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    Mute Patrick Kavanagh
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    May 18th 2017, 9:12 AM

    His vocal in Spoonman is amazing.. can’t believe his death is a typical rock n roll one as he always seemed in great shape. RIP

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    Mute Mark Byrne
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    May 18th 2017, 1:26 PM

    @Patrick Kavanagh: Birth Rituals vocal is up there too. Incredible.

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    Mute MConaty
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    May 18th 2017, 9:09 AM

    Heartbroken – what a legend, what a voice. RIP

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    Mute Anthony Fitzpatrick
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    May 18th 2017, 9:20 AM

    I’m in total shock. The man was an absolute legend. One of the greatest voices in music. RIP

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    Mute Darragh Brennan
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    May 18th 2017, 9:03 AM

    This is just awful. Loved soundgarden when I growing up. My kids now sing ‘ long gone’ when we’re out in the car. RIP.

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    Mute Martin Matthews
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    May 18th 2017, 10:21 AM

    R.I.P. Absolute legend. Soundgardens performance at Sunstroke Festival in 91 was one of the best I’ve ever seen.

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    Mute Deborah Behan
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    May 19th 2017, 12:02 AM

    Please, please men if you are not feeling alright or feeling you are depressed please talk to someone. Anyone. You are loved. You are needed. We need you. Unfortunately it is too late for Chris but it is never too late for you. Please speak I guarantee you will feel better. It is a start. That’s all that’s need. Be kind to yourself.

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    Mute Patrick keane
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    May 18th 2017, 9:24 AM

    Black hole sun wont you come and wash away the rain

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    Mute Denise Daly
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    May 18th 2017, 9:32 AM

    Really tragic loss; a musical genius. Some powerful songs that were a soundtrack to my youth. Soundgarden an MTV were incredible when I was in secondary school. Great memories.

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    Mute Oliver Cullen
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    May 18th 2017, 9:24 AM

    I’m gutted.

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    Mute Ronan McKeon
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    May 18th 2017, 11:05 AM

    R.I.P. He wrote and sang the best James Bond theme since Live and let die.

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    Mute colm connolly
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    May 18th 2017, 11:42 AM

    @Ronan McKeon: please god say your taking the piss and if you are then shame

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    Mute colm connolly
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    May 18th 2017, 11:11 PM

    @Ronan McKeon: what I meant was it’s the best not the best since live and let die but overall , lice and let die is second and 3rd being diamonds are forever

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    Mute Maid Marian
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    May 18th 2017, 9:23 AM

    RIP Such an amazing voice.

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    May 18th 2017, 9:38 AM

    Had his demons but last I heard he was sober. An absolute hero of mine, and a voice that will live with me for the rest of my days, thankfully.

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    Mute Nicola Mc Clurg
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    May 18th 2017, 11:22 AM

    Such sad news. I had to Google the news in case it was a wind up. An amazing singer and talent who will be sorely missed by his fans.

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    Mute Rita
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    May 18th 2017, 11:28 AM

    What a voice, I’m gutted, he was part of my grunge years RIP Chris.

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    Mute Peter Rice
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    May 18th 2017, 1:22 PM

    Bloody shame.
    Great singer but a truly gifted songwriter.I loved most of that Seattle stuff but Soundgarden are the band from that era I still listen to regularly.

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    Mute Terry
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    May 18th 2017, 9:00 AM

    WTF?

    R.I.P. Chris

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    Mute sean
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    May 18th 2017, 10:41 PM

    Total legend, his songs have stood the rest of time and sound as good today as they did 20 years ago.

    The line in outshined is quiet poignant now in light of what happened

    “Just looked in the mirror
    And thing aren’t looking sobad
    I’m looking California
    But feeing Minnesota”

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    May 19th 2017, 2:10 AM

    @sean: I think this one works: “There was a man who had a face
    That looked a lot like me
    I saw him in the mirror and
    I fought him in the street
    And when he turned away
    I shot him in the head
    Then I came to realize
    I had killed myself

    If you’re free you’ll never see the walls
    If your head is clear you’ll never free fall
    If you’re right you’ll never fear the wrong
    If your head is high you’ll never fear at all

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    Mute Dave
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    May 18th 2017, 10:26 AM

    Saw them in 95 in the RDS with white zombie and thought they were crap that day. That said, they have been an enormous influence on my musical taste. Can see me having spoonman, outshined and hunger strike on repeat all day.

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    May 18th 2017, 11:56 AM

    @Dave: don’t leave out Jesus Christ Pose

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    May 18th 2017, 12:31 PM

    I could keep going with videos all day, the man had one of the most impressive voices I’ve ever heard https://youtu.be/tzEa7CCBXyY

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    Mute Ruth Corcoran
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    May 18th 2017, 3:37 PM

    So shocked that Chris Cornell has passed,rock has lost a very special and talented man,rest in peace

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    Mute Layla Moroney
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    May 19th 2017, 12:46 AM

    Do you not think some helpline numbers at bottom of this article would be appropriate given that you even described the method? Highly irresponsible journalism

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    Mute Anon Ymous
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    May 19th 2017, 12:49 AM

    @Layla Moroney: I was thinking the same. They usually put helpline numbers up after articles that even hint at suicide. Surprised they haven’t done it this time.

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    May 19th 2017, 2:11 AM

    @Anon Ymous: this is an update o an early report. Must people always nit-pick?

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    Mute John Connor
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    May 19th 2017, 8:15 AM

    @Anon Ymous @Layla Moroney : Really? Highly irresponsible journalism? Go nit-pick on another article. RIP chris.

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    Mute Layla Moroney
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    May 21st 2017, 1:33 AM

    @John Connor: First time I have ever ‘nit-picked’ on an article. I don’t apologise for it either and stand by my statement as I am sure Pieta House Samaritans or Suicide Or Survive would too. Peace and love!

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    Mute Diarmuid Doran
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    May 18th 2017, 4:30 PM

    Beautiful voice , humble and talented.

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    Mute Piotrek Król
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    May 18th 2017, 9:23 AM
    12
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    Mute Paul Costello
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    May 18th 2017, 2:02 PM

    Was shocked to hear this today.

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    Mute Plus Prom
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    May 18th 2017, 4:14 PM

    Very sad and shocking.

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    Mute Dave O Keeffe
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    May 18th 2017, 4:17 PM

    @Plus Prom: if true, it shows once more that there is no price tag on happiness. Mental health issues couldn’t a fu(k what your bank balance is

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    Mute DaisyChainsaw
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    May 18th 2017, 6:49 PM

    So sad. He was sober and touring which seems like the last place a performer would want to die by suicide. But, as you said, mental health issues dngaf.

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    Mute Eamonn O'Riain
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    May 18th 2017, 12:58 PM

    Jesuschristpose

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    Mute Dylan Roche
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    May 18th 2017, 10:59 AM

    Ah fudge it…

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    Mute niall
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    May 18th 2017, 5:43 PM

    Tragic. What a talent, sadly lost.

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    Mute Negan
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    May 18th 2017, 5:01 PM

    R.I.P.
    Haven’t heard dave Navarro’s name since he was in the Red Hot Chili’s

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    Mute Ossi Fritsche
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    May 18th 2017, 2:05 PM

    Ah no, love Black Hole Sun.

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    Mute Kevin McCarthy
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    May 18th 2017, 10:24 PM

    https://youtu.be/7QU1nvuxaMA

    Great tune. RIP Chris.

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    Mute Dave O'Hanlon
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    May 18th 2017, 6:18 PM

    What a damn shame, probably one of the best singers of the 90s and I’d say strongest of the grungers. RIP

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    Mute Stouts O Shea
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    May 18th 2017, 4:41 PM

    Too much money

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    Mute sean
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    May 18th 2017, 10:44 PM

    @Stouts O Shea: do u even know about Chris Cornell? Battled with depression and other Demons since his teens,money has nothing to do with it,

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    Mute Jim Brown
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    May 19th 2017, 11:29 AM

    @Martin Matthews: yes very sad indeed.. It was my very first gig that Sumner slam. It was ,94 or 95 in the RDS. I rember white Zombie and mudhoney and possibly STP too, think I have the the ticket stub somewhere..

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