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FOR THE FIRST time in 750 years, visitors will be able to see part of St Patrick’s Cathedral which has been closed to the public since the 13th century.
The Lady Chapel in the Dublin cathedral was used as a burial place for bishops and archbishops from when it was built in the 1270s up until the Reformation in the 16th century, and was subsequently used by the Huguenots and other congregations.
The chapel was built just 50 years after the cathedral itself was first constructed, closed to the well where Saint Patrick is supposed to have baptised converts.
The chapel has undergone a €700,000 refurbishment – including cleaning the stone work and dismantling, cleaning and remounting the stained glass – and will open to the public next week.
The Dean of the Cathedral, Reverend Victor Stacey, said that he hoped the chapel would become a tourist attraction.
The chapel will be officially opened by the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht Jimmy Deenihan on Tuesday.
Ah get a grip
@Patsy Mongan: Nope, he’s right, it doesn’t harm anyone or incite hatred to bake the cake that was requested. Christian fundamentalists like Ashers need to accept it’s 2019 and not 1919. Entitled to their personal views absolutely, but if you run a private business that advertises a service, you can’t simply deny service on the grounds that your religious worldview is so brittle and fragile.
@Graham Wilson: you seem very angry. Their belief is not brittle or fragile. It is the one who thinks their right should overshadow another person’s right is the one with a brittle worldview. Live and let’s live. There are plenty other bakeries in Belfast. Pick your choice and stop stuffing your views on other people’s. You don’t and didn’t like it when it was done to you so don’t it to others.
@Graham Wilson: its his shop. he can bake/not bake what he wants. If it was a homophobic cake he refused to bake what would be your attitude?
@Graham Wilson: even the name Asher’s is a reference to the Bible. It is obvious the bakers were Christian, plus they didn’t refuse to serve him because he was gay, they just said making that particular cake went against their beliefs. It’s like asking an artist to draw a painting they do not wish to paint…must they be compelled to, or is the right to say no still there?
Attention seeker seeks more attention.
Seriously? They made you the cake. They just didn’t want to put something that was against their right to religion on it. Why don’t you go to an Islamic chop shop with your pig and ask them to kill it for you? Your right to something doesn’t mean someone else shouldn’t have a right to speak or reject it.
@Arya: how is the pathetic comparison even remotely the same?
@Ian Breathnach: Both are based on religious beliefs or?
@Ian Breathnach: ok let me make it simple for you. I live in a small town and rate animals. I have a pig I want to slaughter. Only slaughterhouse around in a Muslim owned one. They provide that service for other animals. So I take my pig there and they refuse. I then take them to court. Is that better? Cake is Pig. Slaughterhouse is bakery. Owner is Muslim. Makes sense now?
@Arya: no it doesn’t make any sense. You forgot that the bakery owners MADE the cake. So if cake is a pig, then yes they slaughtered it just not exactly the way you wanted. Makes sense?
@Arya: Where Presumably the hypothetical Muslim run slaughter house you invented does not provide a pig slaughtering service. A bakery does bake cakes.
@Bryan Yelahw: they were happy to bake the cake but won’t put something that was against their religious beliefs on it. Or I read the case differently? They didnt refuse to bake the cake.
@monika: ha! You do understand then. If they MADE the cake…which they had no issues making. They just had issues with what was going on the cake cus it was against their religious beliefs.
@Arya: Part of making the cake includes a message and decoration. They didn’t make the cake as requested. The cake shop does offer this service. As for the mythical Muslim hala butcher they don’t offer a service to butcher pigs. As hala butchers they would never have ever butchered a pig before so don’t know how to do it
@Arya: women weren’t allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia until recently due to religious beliefs, you ok with that? When religious beliefs discriminate against a person due to ethnicity or sexual orientation, then there’s an issue
@Arya:you have just given me the best laugh of the day …..
@Arya:
But it is discriminatory – one’s religious beliefs should not be an acceptable defense to discrimination.
Another hypothetical – if the customer was black and ordering a cake celebrating his black heritage, could a business owner claim that according to his religion, including black culture themed messages on a cake is against his/her beliefs?
Contrived, I know, but not so different to this case.
@Arya: ” I live in a small town and rate animals” I presume you don’t rate them?? But do you ate them, hate them, raise them or maybe even rape them?!! Clarify please.
@Arya: are you on crack?
@Arya: Clearly not the same. The same thing is going into a Muslim bakery and asking them to ice a picture of a fella eating a bacon butty on the front. There you go. Does it sound insane to say no to that?
@David: yep! The one you cook at home. How much is a kilo now :-).
@Peter O Donnell: Stupid autocorrect. Choose whichever you want :-).
@gags: A man walks into an IRA stronghold bakery and asks for a cake with the Union Jack decoration. Good luck!!
@Arya: Amen to that Arya.
@monika: try reading his explanation word by word it’s not that hard to figure out what hes saying
@Arya: No you’re still wrong because from the outset, an Islamic Abattoir don’t slaughter pigs, never have and never will. Going into one with a pig is just stirring up shyte. Ashers Bakery have never been known for their christian ethos. They’re a fhuckin bakery. Perhaps they should change their name to Christian Bakery and put a sign in their window stating “No LGBT+ slogans, political or otherwise will be put on any product we make”
Then see what happens.
@Arya: A major fact of this case is that the bakery took the order and then called the customer later saying they cannot put the message on the cake because of their religious beliefs. Do you honestly believe that when a bakers puts a slogan on a cake it automatically means they’re endorsing it?
Could you imagine if an atheist gay owned bakery said to a Christian customer that they couldnt make them a communion or confirmation cake with religious symbols or wording on it because they didn’t agree with it? There would be fkin outrage. This is essentially what ashers have done. Its pathetic.
@Arya: :D
@Ian Breathnach: then the Christian customer should take their custom somewhere else. Simples. No outrage here.
@monika:
How about asking a gay baker to bake a cake with a chocolate topping of “No to Gay Marriage”
@Ian Breathnach:
Why would there be outrage ?
That’s their human right to
@Craic_a_tower: so WHY didnt this fella just refuse to pay for the cake and go elsewhere ? no instead he has to kick up a big stink and put peoples jobs and livelihoods at risk . gets all het up because someone refused to do as he wants – thats life -get on with it !
The issue isn’t about him being denied a service based on his sexual orientation. It’s about him asking for a service they don’t provide (cakes with a particular political slogan). If he wanted one of the cakes they do provide he wouldn’t be denied service.
@sVRCsaSg: Should said bakery deny a Sinn Fein supporter a slogan deemed offensive along the lines of “Chucky arr law” or even “Tiocfidh ár lá”…. is this a problem?
@Phil West: yes if it’s against their beliefs.
@Phil West:
Yes. Of course.
@Phil West: Of course!
Why doesn’t he bake it and decorate it himself and quit the virtue signalling BS.
Just buy a packet of cherry Bakewells n be over it
@Richie Donegan: had a few the other day, think they were left over from Christmas. Top gear all the same
@Ben Murphy: typical banker taste buds
Is it just him or is someone or some other group trying to create a controversy here. Who is paying the legal fees. Feel sorry for Asher’s they never refused to serve the man before due to his sexuality but just wouldn’t print something contrary to their religious beliefs. Just go elsewhere for the service.
Let it go dude….your making a show of yourself!
@AngieY: How so ? Maybe your opinion.
Shove that cake you know where. They don’t want your business or agree with your lifestyle choices. So grow up and stop annoying everyone.
@Mark Mccormack: Good for them but then they can’t operate a business. What is to stop a business discriminating based on race then?
@Craic_a_tower: The law. But if I don’t want your business that’s my choice. If I tell you why I don’t want your business, it may be a matter for the law
@Mark Mccormack: it is a matter of law to refuse a service based on the listed agreed grounds and sexual orientation is on that list
@Mark Mccormack: Drop dead.
Would have been a more interesting case if it didn’t involve a political slogan. I fully support gay marriage but think a printer should be entitled to decline a job printing police pamphlets they disagree with, so likewise a baker, religion shouldn’t have anything to do with this. If they declined the job because they cpuple were gay that would be something else altogether.
@Squiddley Diddley: *political not police
@Squiddley Diddley: And BTW if you ask me the bakers opinion on his own sexuality is a religious belief, his opinion on laws relating to other peoples’ is a political belief.
I kind of feel a little embarrassed for this guy. Fruitcake anyone?
Old news at this stage. Next!
@Madra: It isn’t as there is now something extra to the story as it has progressed
This is the height of pathetic.
Customer? Or activist? Victim? Or perpetrator?
It’s the word “queer” a derogatory word for gay!!
This was a stitch up from the word go. Even the wording on the cake was used to push the buttons of the baker he already knew was deeply religious.
His point about beliefs of the owner being different to the company are nonsense, it’s a family business. Not some multinational corporation.
This reminds me of some dude in Canada going around dressed and identifying as a woman, into beauticians asking to have his balls waxed. And then getting the business closed down when they refuse. The law is running scared of the lefty loons.
@Thefallguy: Yes it was but the owner was in the wrong at the start and allowed himself to be caught discriminating. Rosa Parks refusing to move was also a set up and had happened to another person weeks before. As the other person was an unmarried teen mother they got Rosa Parks to repeat the refusal to move. Doesn’t change the discrimination
@Thefallguy: Theres nothing leftist or loony about getting your balls waxed….Im sure there are plenty of rightwing neo-cons running about the place with no hair on their balls
Come on let it go move on with your life
Other cake providers are also available.
He has little to worry him when I think of all the people in this world who are suffering so much through wars, persecution,homelessness , poverty and illness.
@Aine O Connor: you just answered the question why it is so important to make a stand for all , less talk more action needed in Ireland
@rosemarie slamon: I stand with bakers!
Attention seeking gowl, being funded by the state’s free legal aid vultures . He deliberately targeted Ashers knowing their ethos to cause offence to the owners and gain publicity. I wonder would his legal reps be so quick to push this if they thought they’d have to endanger their own business rather than someone else’s
Why can’t we comment on a judges decision that Ryan’s house can be repossessed.The Journal are mugging me off
Just get over yourself Mr Lee and stop wasting taxpayers money on such pathetic trivialities when there are so many serious problems facing North & South with Brexit etc.
Might just try a case against that Kosher butcher in London that wouldn’t give me a pound of rashers.
A big cheque at the end of this will sort everything out
@Mick Cullen: expensive cake for someone
Get a life Gareth.
I hope when he loses his case inEurope costs are awarded against him and he cant even afford a fairy cake
@Thomas Devlin:
Haha.
Good. Lesson might be learned.
Religious beliefs are slowly being eroded in this increasing secular world. No wonder people like Bill O Donohue are needed to maintain the moral bedrock of Christians. I feel sorry for people that were indoctrinated in a faith and need to maintain a certain judgemental outlook. If only the Bible said “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” then the world would be a happier place.
@MaxDemons: Rightly so to after the strangle hold the Catholic church had on this country and atrocities they committed here. The Christian bedrock you talk of includes persecuting those of different sexual orientation, those who divorced, sex outside marriage, mentally ill etc… They never treated people as they would want to be treated. Don’t forget the bible suggests you offer your wife and daughter up for rape rather than let somebody be homosexual. These Christian values are important to you but not to me and you can live by them if you like but don’t bother me with them.
@Craic_a_tower: they should’ve gone to a different bakery so is basically what you’re saying.
@Skimothy: no not even close. Don’t bother me with your religious beliefs means don’t bother me. If you offer a service you offer it to everyone and keep your religion out of the transaction.
@Craic_a_tower: Read it again, I’m a militant Atheist.
@Craic_a_tower: don’t go to a bakery with the full intention of getting a reaction like he did. He knew what he was doing by ordering that cake whether he admits it or not.
@Craic_a_tower
If I had a cake business and someone wanted me to write a message including the word queer, I would refuse, regardless of sexual orientation. Same if someone asked me to write the n-word, even if the person requesting was black.
It is against my morals to use such derogatory terms, and I don’t put my morals aside for anyone.
If someone came in and wanted to order a cake saying f*** you b****, I’d also refuse.
Just because I have a (hypothetical) business making cakes and including messages, doesn’t mean I am required to fulfill every request, if I deem some to be inappropriate and against the morals of the business I’m running.
Where the issue is, is if you only deny to one group. In my case, I would deny any message I deemed offensive and against my morals, even if the person claims it’s a joke or something. Nothing religious about it.
@Mirabelle Stonegate: exactly
@Mirabelle Stonegate: that is not why they refused
@Craic_a_tower: except it is why they refused.
@Craic_a_tower:
Is there a gay baker about.
I need a cake
I fancy some publicity
@Craic_a_tower: they didnt refuse the service -they made the cake -they refused to put a slogan on it – he could just as easily gone elsewhere -or gone home and iced the bloody cake himself – or he could simply have refused to pay for the cake as it was not what he wanted – but no -he has to have a hissy fit and go all out to destroy a business ,peoples livelihoods and jobs – he needs to grow and realise the world does not revolve around him and his gay friends !
Once brexit happens…. eu court of justice has no jurisdiction, one of the brexiteer aims
@Kevin50: Quite right no more having to take their BS.
@Kevin50: The Brexiteers are right on that one.
The European Court of Justice decides if a case is within it’s remit and of course it does, every time. It’s out-of-control
@Kevin50: You might want to read the article again. It’s not the EU court of justice he is taking the case to the the European court of human rights. The UK is a member of this and being out of the EU wont change this membership.
The freedom to express a political opinion also entails the right not to express a political opinion. The Belfast baker declined to inscribe a cake with the political slogan Support Gay Marriage. He pleaded the right not to express a political opinion with which he strongly disagreed. The Supreme Court in London upheld his right.
This means that a baker in Cork who is a strong Fine Gael member would have the right not to inscribe on the icing of a Fianna Fail customer’s cake UP DEV!
@Garreth Byrne: Fianna Fail does not support Fine Gael bakers.
Yer man should have gone to a gay baker. There must be a few.
This was a set-up.
@John Lynch: I agree that it was a set-up. Customers can buy cakes from all kinds of bakery shops and then take them home and inscribe the icing with any slogans they fancy.
@Garreth Byrne: How was it a set up? You clearly know feck all about the case. The guy ordered a cake with the slogan on it. The order was accepted. It wasnt until 2 days later that he got a call telling him they will not make the cake due their Christian beliefs they couldn’t put said slogan on the cake. They literally used their religion to refuse service to a gay man and a slogan on a cake.
@Ian Breathnach: The Supreme Court in London ruled on the issue of a right to express an opinion entailing a right not to express an opinion with which one disagrees.
Hope he gets his cake… Pathetic…
@Willy: and eats it. :-)
@Arya: now there’s a comment that could easily be misconstrued!
The bakers did not refuse to serve him. They refused to write a slogan. Big difference.
People have fought hard for equal rights, Some have even died, some continue to die.
I doubt it was so this guy could make such an issue about his stupid cake message and the contrived injustice he feels.
They should put his two balls up on top of the cake and get him to eat it with bells on.
Take your cake and eat it.
Oh wait there was no cake
God! Let me off the bus.
This lad need a pie in the face the tool bag!!
I know it might be hard for you to understand but the Ashers Bakery owners are a young couple with a family , self employed trying to make a living. This customer seems to ignore the consequences for this couple if they lost their business. He could easily have got someone else to write the message on the cake. It’s a simple task. It appears bullying is his main aim and he is a sore loser.
@Aine O Connor: Yawn.
Complete fool
What gets me more about this case is the hypocrisy of the legislation. The legislation blatantly discriminates against same sex couples by refusing them the right to get married, yet prosecutes a business because they won’t put a slogan on a cake advocating what the legislation prohibits. Mad. Aside, I may have had some sympathy with the bakers had they simply said they don’t do political slogans. However, they are defending the case on the grounds that it’s against their religious beliefs.
@Anne Marie Devlin: Maybe bakers can now say: Let them eat cake instead of political slogans.
Just a thought. Once Brexit occurs will the case come to an end or if it continues will the UK have to accept the judgement?
I’m bailing on this one. I’ll laugh at him from the sidelines. I respect the right of anybody to not write anything they don’t want to!! Decorate your own cake, fool!!!
This man is correct to pursue his case. I imagine that most of the people here who think otherwise are either not gay or have probably never been discriminated against in any way. This man lives in a country where he isn’t allowed to marry the person he loves because of an archaic and brutal form of colonial oppression. In his lifetime he would have seen the LGBTQ community endure RUC harassment, Ian Paisley and his “Save Ulster from Sodomy” campaign, and now in 2019 when all he wants is a cake with a message on it, someone thinks they can tell him that they don’t agree with his message and refuse his business? This is clear and obvious discrimination and he has every right to stand up for himself against the backwards, bigoted and unlawful views of this bakery.
@James J Gough: BS
@OConnelj: What part of someone fighting for equal rights do you take issue with?
@James J Gough: this lad went to this particular bakery on purpose because he knew they wouldn’t do it. He needs a good slap and cop the fook on!
@James J Gough: listen to yourself you idiot, equal rights goes both ways!
@Peter Mc: Ok you’re free to elaborate on that one if you can. In what way has this bakers rights been infringed upon? His right to be homophobic? That’s illegal. His right to refuse service based on a PERSONAL policy that’s clearly discriminatory? That’s also illegal.
Remember before you start calling anyone an idiot, this bakery isn’t a Christian bakery that has specific or protected rights under the law. The views of the bakery are a reflection of the person who owns it. This person’s views are formed from his reading of the bible which he takes as law. But fortunately for the rest of us, the UK (nor Irish) Government interpret this as law. Furthermore, if the baker really had a problem with the message being “a political one”, he should have remembered that by selling the cake to this person, the cake became his private property to do as he pleases with. He had no intention of forcing the bakery to display it in their window.
So please, stop trying to defend this baker’s discriminatory behaviour because you also take issue with a proud gay man standing up for himself you fragile little person. LGBTQ+ people are not going away and it’s about high time they start making some noise about all the discrimination they’ve felt. Perhaps instead of bashing this person or me, why don’t you try supporting marginalized people instead?
@James J Gough: I respect the right of anybody NOT to print something they disagree with. How can someone be ridiculed for not printing something. I guarantee if i asked this same business to print the contents of Romans 1:27 on a cake they would refuse also!
@OConnelj: That has to be a joke. They would love the opportunity to do such a thing. It was a clear act of discrimination.
They said it “conflicted with their religious and political beliefs”. That is the owner’s belief. I highly doubt if you look on the bakery’s website, it says anything about this policy because that would be a clear act of discrimination.
It’s mind boggling to me how people will try and defend these types of behaviours….
@James J Gough: And with all that shit going on he is worried about a cake!
@OConnelj: I know it might be hard for you to understand, but when you can’t even buy a f*cking cake without being discriminated against, it’s a big deal. It would truly benefit you and many other people who’ve been leaving disparaging (and threatening) comments about this man to instead speak to LGBTQ+ people about their experiences so you can be more empathetic.
@James J Gough: thing is he COULD buy a cake – no problem buying a cake – he just couldnt get what he wanted iced onto the cake at the particular bakery – he could have gone elsewhere -he could have made and iced the cake himself – he could have just done without a bloody cake altogether — but no he has to try to ruin a mans business ,threaten people’s jobs and livelihoods -actions that could cost a family its home as well as its business -and all because he couldn’t get his own way ! what a self centred fool of a man he is !
Religious beliefs do no trump the law. If you cannot make a legal argument for in a debate based on legal precedent and have to involve religion as your only argument, you do not have a valid argument.
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