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A FINE GAEL TD has said that he was not accusing Sinn Féin TDs of anything when he named them in the Dáil yesterday in relation to a Garda investigation into an IRA murder.
Under pressure from other party leaders, Gerry Adams yesterday made a statement to the Dáil about information he had received in relation to the murder of prison officer Brian Stack in 1983.
Stack was shot by members of the Provisional IRA as he left a boxing match in Dublin. No one was ever convicted for his murder.
In his speech, Adams reiterated an earlier assertion that names he had provided to the Garda Commissioner in relation to the case were given to him by Austin Stack, the son of the murdered prison guard.
Adams said he never described these people as “suspects” and that Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin had previously “misled the Dáil” in saying he did.
Following Adams’ speech, Farrell stood up to raise “a point of order”.
The Fine Gael TD said:
I think it appropriate given that Deputy Adams has been afforded the opportunity to explain to the house his involvement and/or his discussions with individuals relating to this case, that the other individuals who are members of this house who he himself has named and which are already in the public domain, that deputies Ellis and Ferris be given an opportunity to address this house.
The TDs in question named by Farrell yesterday under Dáil privelige were Dessie Ellis and Martin Ferris.
Speaking today on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Alan Farrell clarified his comments saying that he had been “led to believe” that Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams had passed on the names of Ferris and Ellis to the Garda Commissioner last year in relation to the investigation.
Farrell further clarified his statement by saying he was not linking the deputies with the murder of Stack – nor was he implicating them in the events – but was merely requesting that they make a statement.
“I think it should be stated very, very clearly here, I implicated nobody,” said Farrell.
I made a statement requesting two members of the house… to make statements in regards to the inclusion of their names in correspondence.
Adams has said previously that he had passed on names in relation to the murder of Brian Stack to the Garda Commissioner.
He said that these names were given to him by Brian Stack’s son, Austin Stack, who has been campaigning for justice for his father.
Austin Stack, however, has denied that he provided Adams with these names.
Speaking on Morning Ireland, Alan Farrell said information around Adams’ correspondence with the Garda Commissioner had been given to him by a “confidential trusted source” and that he was confident the information was given in good faith.
“I wasn’t offering accusation of wrongdoing either,” he said.
I did not in any way infer that either deputy had done anything wrong. I simply wished that they be given an opportunity to address to Dáil in the same way Deputy Adams did.
In response to Farrell’s comments in the Dáil yesterday, both Ferris and Ellis defended themselves vehemently.
“I’m not going to have people put my name out there on something that I have nothing to do with,” said Ellis.
I refute any allegations. For the information, the man in question claims to be a solicitor, I was actually in jail for the period. In Portlaoise and before that in America so you should check your facts. You’re a disgrace.
Kerry TD Ferris said he had already met gardaí in relation to the murder and that “he had nothing to answer for”.
“On the record of this house. In 2013 I met with gardaí at their request regarding the death of Brian Stack,” said Ferris.
I co-operated fully with them and I have nothing to answer for, and it’s a disgrace what you have come in here naming. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Playing politics. It’s shameful. Pity Mr Farrell is not so adamant with little Mary Boyle.
@LITTLEONE: Careful littleone. I pointed out something similar in relation to MM yesterday and the comment was removed.
@For Connolly: I find the hypocrisy coming from them something else. When you see that every week ff headquarters festooned in purple balloons. Yet their silence is deafening. Shameful on all politicians remaining quiet.
@LITTLEONE:
All politicians with any information on any open murder case should give it to the Gardai immediately. FF, SF, FG whoever.
Failure to do so should be seen as a resigning offence.
This is not a grey area.
It transpires that Farrell was only used as a patsy. I wonder who was pardon the pun giving him the bullets to fire.
Yea those t
@Brinster: yet both martin and Kenny were given a name and information. Yet silence . If any other political party or political independent or otherwise was being protested outside every week and festooned in ribbons and balloons. People and media would be all over. Little Mary Boyle obviously is not deemed the attention. Shameful stain on the state.
Brinster you are a sad little individual. I see your comments all over every sf article whether its morning noon or night. Go get a job lad.
@Brinster: “All politicians with any information on any open murder case should give it to the Gardai immediately. FF, SF, FG whoever. ”
Are you claiming that Adams and Fr. Reid should have broke the confidentialty agreements which ultimately led to some of the bodies of the disappeared being recovered?
It clear to see that as usual that FG/FF and the Irish media are only concerned about murders committed by the PIRA.. The biggest atrocity of the troubles happened in Dublin and Monaghan when FG were in Government and we’re still waiting for an independent enquiry 40 years later.. Ask your local FG TD why their party covered up the murder of Seamus Ludlow in Dundalk back in the 1970′s.. The British agent the “Jackal” murdered Mr Ludlow when he was walking home from a night out and at the time FG and the Guards put out fake stories claiming Mr Ludlow was murdered by the IRA in a local dispute when they knew full well he was murdered by a British Agent.. The same agent the”Jackal” was also responsible for the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, also covered up by FG..
@For Connolly:
Christ – you really think Adams should withhold information on a murder because he “pinky swore”???
Brinster; this is not information relevent to any investigation, it is really a massive FF/FG inspired game of chinese whispers hashed and rehashed by a very complient media, in a party political agenda.
The Stack family requested a meeting with Gerry Adams with view to achieving some closure or understanding on this killing, something which they later thanked GA for helping them achieve. This was done by Gerry Adams utilising chains of communication established during peace process negotiations with former members of PIRA and has been established practice done under an undertaking of confidentiality.
In this process 4 names have been mentioned, GA claims by Austin Stack, which he has since denied. Yet with 20 years of such communications involving many events, decommissioning, recovery of disappeared victims etcGerry Adams has never broken that confidentiality. To do so would close all future attemts. To assist other families and groups like commission for return of disappeared.
So this begs the question why would he now in this case enter 4 names if they were not given to him and being already embroiled in this game of chinese whispers??
How arrogant and condesending to describe the help and assistance given to the commission for recovery of disappeared, 12 of whom have been recovered and work continues in remaining 3, as based on a pinky promise!!!
Your disregard for those families in that achievment and continuing work only highlights your true Intent in using 1 death over others for some percieved political gains. Disgusting!!!
Yet another deceased person’s name dragged up and used with fake concern for relatives or justice.
And all in a desperate attempt to hurt your political opponent – how sickening all this has become.
FGFF need to stop cherry-picking the past, and our graveyards.
@Pádraig Ó Braonáin:
The late Brian Stack’s name is in the news because his sons are campaigning for the truth about his murder. Therefore, there is no “cherry-picking” on the part of either FF or FG.
@Pádraig Ó Braonáin: 100% agree. The crime is totally being ignored in the face of point scoring by political parties.
How Farrell was democratically elected is beyond me. He is self interested in everything he says and does.
Also (not a loaded question by way I’d genuinely like to know) has anyone found out if M. Martin passed on the 4 names to Gardai when he was in receipt of them back in 2013?
@Pádraig Ó Braonáin:
“Yet another deceased person’s name dragged up and used with fake concern for relatives or justice.”
You are now smearing Austin Stack, son of a murdered man.
He’s the one fighting for justice here.
He’s the one looking for answers.
@Cosmo Kramer:
There’s no chance of Loyalist paramilitaries’ political supporters being in government in Dublin – if you get my drift.
Another inquiry wouldn’t tell us anything we don’t already know about the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. Forensic science was primitive back in 1974.
@LITTLEONE:
The Mary Boyle case is nothing to do with case that was discussed in the Dáil.
By the way, “Jarry” knows a thing or two about making people disappear.
Jaysus Brendan you’re out to bat again for your party- don’t you do any work? Is there any behaviour you wouldn’t tolerate?
HQ must be really getting their knickers in a twist.
Gentlemen, Gentleman please you can’t fight in here! this is the war room!
Ciaran, Are they the only family campaigning for truth or is this just one case that the media and some politicians are pushing for some sort of political gain. Why arent we hearing from other victims? Dunlin/monaghan bombings victims families for eg.
@Ciarán Masterson: with all due respect. That’s the problem. It never is the case. That’s the hypocrisy. Pathetic time and again the political point scoring they do and then they totally ignore information they have received on the disappearance of a little girl. They certainly made little Mary Boyle disappear with their silence. Part of the plan?
@Seamus Og:
We have heard from other families that are campaigning for truth. It’s just that they’re not looking to talk to mainstream politicians at present. We have heard from the Dublin and Monaghan families at commemorations of the bombings. A court case has been taken in Northern Ireland against the UK government by relatives of people who died in the bombings.
@LITTLEONE:
The sexually-motivated murder of a child is separate from a murder committed by a terrorist. Terrorism is an entirely separate issue. The murder of Mary Boyle was committed by one man – and one man only – who was never a TD. Therefore, she wasn’t “made to disappear”, as you put it, by a group of people.
If the government is overthrown then the lives of thousands of innocents are in danger. It is for that reason – and that reason only – that there is such a focus on murders committed by terrorists. Jean McConville was murdered by several people, as was Brian Stack (Those who planned the murders, as well as those who pulled the trigger, are guilty, i.e. joint enterprise).
@Ciarán Masterson:
Is that why FG/FF/Lab are so vociferous in their campaign for the truth on the Dublin/Monaghan bombings?
@Tír Eoghain Gael:
“The late Brian Stack’s name is in the news because his sons are campaigning for the truth about his murder. Therefore, there is no “cherry-picking” on the part of either FF or FG.”
Is that why FG/FF/Lab are so vociferous in their campaign for the truth on the Dublin/Monaghan bombings?
@Paul Mc: take your pick fg/ff/lab/indo, this situation is so similar to the marie whats her name ? last year its frightening, to think with all fg/ff/lab/indos advisers you would think they could come up with something different what have they promised stack ????
@Tír Eoghain Gael:
FF and FG have raised the issue with the UK government, which won’t release the files because it doesn’t want to put informers’ lives in danger.
The UVF – including some RUC and UDR personnel – carried out the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. Stop minimising the UVF’s guilt.
Yeah right
That clown Farrell is so out of his depth trying to make a name for himself amongst the FG hierarchy. Making a complete fool out of himself both last night and again this morning on the radio. SF should turn this tights round on him now and ask him to name the person, obviously in the Gardai,who now breaking the law by leaking this information to him.
PaulJ. It was Adams who mentioned the other two originally. And as they were named by their own leader it would not be inappropriate for them to make a formal statement to the Dail on this matter. And Ferris himself stated that he had been interviewed by the Gardai on the matter.
@Mick Jordan: “It was Adams who mentioned the other two originally.”
Not as suspects.
Did you actually listen to the statement Mick?
@For Connolly:
You gave us the truth yesterday FC.
When asked why Gerry Adams withheld information for 2 years, you said, quote –
“Had he given it earlier the only difference would have been that it would have been leaked before the last election and used as a political sledgehammer.”
So there you have it straight from the horse’s mouth.
Adams withheld information from the Gardai for political purposes.
That is absolutely shameful.
He should resign immediately.
I don’t believe Farrell claimed that they were suspects. But as former members of the IRA they may have knowledge of who is. As Ellis himself said “I was in Portlaois Prison at the time” and as such would have had interactions with Chief Officer Stack at the time. And would very likely have heard from IRA sources who was responsible. News of that kind travels very fast inside the convict community within prisons
@For Connolly:
Farrell didn’t name them as suspects either. Total lie to say that he did.
All he said was Gerry Adams had named them.
Usual spin – usual deflection.
@Mick Jordan: you have to look at Farrell he is a nobody politician laughed at by the media and of course Kenny overlooked him. Now he trying to get noticed. Next election he will be dumped.
@Brinster: Cop on – Austin Stack approached him for a meeting, Stack told him the names and said they came from the Gardai. Stack as for this meeting purely on the basis that the family wanted some closure. Since then he has become manipulated by a certain journalist from INM and has gone down this route. My advice to Gerry A, if another family approached you and asks for this type of process and says that they are committed to doing it confidentially, run an absolute mile from them.
@Brinster: “When asked why Gerry Adams withheld information for 2 years, you said quote –
“Had he given it earlier the only difference would have been that it would have been leaked before the last election and used as a political sledgehammer.”
Spoofing again brinster?
When you asked me that question, I said….
For Connolly
16 hours ago # 85 114
@Brinster: “Why did he sit on the information for two years before then handing names to the Gardai?”
He explained in the speech you allegedly heard. Have another listen.
Is it just me or are charles wrexs/brinsters posts becoming somewhat interchangable?
They’re beginning to sound/act a lot lie diarmuid used to. Remember dermo, guys?
@For Connolly:
Pathetic.
All anyone has to do is scroll up on that link you posted. Your comment is there to see.
I quoted you completely accurately.
You yourself said Gerry Adams didn’t pass on the info for political reasons.
He’ll go over this.
@Brendan Luke Ferron: “My advice to Gerry A, if another family approached you and asks for this type of process and says that they are committed to doing it confidentially, run an absolute mile from them.”
Thats probably the worst of the filty politic being played out Brendan. Agreed confidentiality allowed Adams and Fr. Reid to do a lot of good work post conflict as they could gain imortant information from people who had no trust whatsoever in the police in either jurisdiction. That trust is now in tatters for the sake of a couple of hours finger wagging in the Dail.
As an aside, given that information sent directly to the Garda commissioner was leaked in relation to a live murder case, it seems they’re right not to trust the powers that be to act in an apolitical manner.
@Brendan Luke Ferron:
“Stack told him the names and said they came from the Gardai”
Austin Stack has repeatedly denied this.
Are you publicly calling Austin Stack a liar?
(Loving the thumb thing brinster, really frames the honesty of your contributions around here, LOL!)
Mick, You dont know much about secrecy within the ira if you think they went around gloating about someone they shot.
I’m talking about Farrell’s “confidential source”. This information came from a dirty Garda leaking information and this individual needs to bye rooted out, I’m sure the Gardai authorities will want to find out who this leak is, probably the Commissioner herself!
@For Connolly:
First I’m Diarmuid and now I’ve hacked the site and am manipulating thumbs.
Of all your pathetic deflections, the thumb whinging one is just so embarrassing.
Grow up.
The notes of the meeting in 2013 clearly show that Stack named these individuals. Go have a read of it.
@Seamus Og: Sure Micks an expert all all things conflict. He once claimed if Iran had nukes they’d use them to threaten to block the strait of hormuz.
The same Iran wich hasn’t started a war in hundreds of years.
Oh, how I laughed.
@Brinster: “Of all your pathetic deflections, the thumb whinging one is just so embarrassing. ”
Really? What I’d find embarrassing is that an individual is so unable to stand by their own comments or even find them criedible themselves, that they have to not only manipulate the thumb count of their own post in a gainful way, but have to negatively manipulate the counts of commenters they don’t agree with.
That, brinny old chap, is embarassing. Not to mention disrespectful to other readers and conributors.
@Brinster: I think you have by saying he had the information for 2 years? That infers that he got the information 2 years previously from Stack at the meeting ? I am only following on from your logic on the time line of when he came to know those names and you seem to think its at the time he met Stack.
Seamus. The IRA were riddled throughout their history with informers. And something of that importance would have spread quickly amongst the senior ranks of the IRA especially to those in the MAZE and Portlaois Prisons. Let us not forget it the approval of those prisoners that the leadership of the IRA sought when negotiating the GFA.
@For Connolly:
You talk such absolute nonsense. I’ve never hacked anything and have no clue how to do so.
Tell me, FC, how is it that you can post here all day, every day?
You post more than anyone else. Far, far more. Thousands of posts at this stage. On every SF article.
How is that possible?
Is it because you are paid to do so?
@Brendan Luke Ferron:
It’s very simple Brendan.
Austin Stack has repeatedly denied giving Gerry Adams the names.
You said above – quote – “Stack told him the names”. It’s there for all to see on this page.
So – one more time – are you publicly calling Austin Stack a liar?
@Brinster: “Tell me, FC, how is it that you can post here all day, every day?”
Says yer man who posts here all day everyday.
“I’ve never hacked anything and have no clue how to do so. ”
Well, yesterday I was able to post the comment ‘Hi Brinster’ on another article before you even made a single comment, because a rash of red thumbs appeared beside comments from people you usually attempt to debate with. Lo and behold 1 minute later you start commenting on the aticle.
Just a mad coincidence I’m sure.
Oh this is classic! I’m just seing now that you posted the comment ‘Hi FC’ below it, you really have NO shame…
http://www.thejournal.ie/profile/380833/hi-brinster-5691554/
Comment #5691554 by For Connolly
For Connolly 17 hours ago #
“Hi Brinster”
Comment #5691565 by Brinster
Brinster 17 hours ago #
@For Connolly:
“Hi FC.”
Comment #5691566 by For Connolly
For Connolly 17 hours ago #
“LOL!
I saw the thumb counts jump all over the place nd knew a comment from brinster wouldn’t be far behind.
Such an honest bunch.”
@For Connolly:
Amazing how every negative SF story always ends the same way – with you accusing someone of being a shill/manipulating thumbs/other nonsense.
Just a mad coincidence I’m sure.
Brinster again you are attributing the opinions expressed by a contributor here as having some form of accountability for Gerry Adams.
GA has stated upteen times now, when furnished with these names he was also told that they had come from Gardi sourses, why would he feel the need to return them to Gardi??? As pointed out yesterday 1 of the names was incapable of involvment and anther was interviewed by Gardi in 2013 with no further action!!
Chinese whispers are not a court of law and hopefully never will be!!!
@M Bowe:
So what changed M Bowe.
Why bother giving the names to the Gardai at all if he thought they already had them?
That’s what stinks here.
@Brinster: @Brinster: You seem to be inferring Adams withheld information he was never given? It’s all a bit confusing.
1. If Stack never told him names then he withheld nothing and simply made the names up of his own volition. I can’t see any logic for doing this.
2. Stack told him names and said the Gardai already had them and he passed on info a few years later in the knowledge it was already in possession of the authorities.
Either way its a ball of smoke. and like so much of the other media constructed rubbish it will quickly blow over.
Brinster; Austin Stack is recently reported as sayin” 1 of the 4 names was not part of the discussion he had with Gerry Adams” so at least 3 were.
He also gave his word on confidentially on meeting former PIRA member.
1 is cintadictary and 2 shows he didnt keep his word.
I asked you yesterday, if you had taken someones word in confidence and they broke it, would you not at least question anything they had to say on that matter, or any matter ???
Brendan how do you keep up with all the postings?
I suppose it boils down to Do you believe the Stack brothers to be lying – and Gerry Adams to be telling the truth?
@Brendan Luke Ferron:
Yet again you have refused to answer the question – are you calling Austin Stack a liar?
Your evasion is now getting embarrassing. It is a simple question. Care to answer?
@Brendan Luke Ferron:
Gerry Adams says Austin Stack gave him names. Austin Stack denies this. This leaves two possibilities –
1) Gerry Adams is lying. In which case, who gave him the names? And why is he lying?
or
2) Austin Stack is lying. In which case, why did Gerry Adams wait over two years to pass on the names to the Gardai?
This is what absolutely stinks about this.
If we believe Gerry Adams over Austin Stack, he still took over 2 years to provide this information to the Gardai.
If we believe Austin Stack, they why is Gerry lying about a murder victim’s son?
This is what has SF so rattled.
Whatever the truth is – it is bad for Gerry Adams.
@Seamus Og: @Seamus Og: No the notes do not show that:
http://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2016/Scan1.pdf
“Austin Stack said the family believe that the reason the IRA didn’t take responsibility is because the attack was sanctioned in error. He says that they have the names of those they believe who may have been there on the day and the person who sanctioned it.”
Austin Stack admitted they had the names, but then Adams goes on:
“He (Stack) acknowledged that SF cannot act as investigators but he pointed to the fact that senior SFD people like ## and ## were in Portlaoise around the time of their father’s death and may have information that could help the family”.
Martin Ferris confirmed yesterday that he was in Portloaise and that he was questioned in 2013.
Gerry Adams notes go on:
“Austin Stack said they are not there to give names but he claimed that the person who supposedly sanctioned the attack is in our Parliamentary party in the North. He said that they have fairly concrete information from Gardai, some journalists and other sources and by joining the dots”.
Gerry Adams own notes confirm that Austin Stack did not give the names of any people that he believed to be there on the day of his father’s attack and of the person who sanctioned the attack.
His own notes confirm what Austin Stack has consistently said.
@Brinster: Stack also gave his ‘word’ that this would go ahead on a confidential basis after contacting Adams and requesting this process as a person committed to restorative justice, in that regard his word was worth very little indeed. As I say I hope it’s a lesson learned.
You said, I said, he said, she said. Red thumb , green thumb, we thumb, you thumb. Christ, it’s like a divorce court in here. These articles attract vested interests like a moth to a flame. The journal should disallow thumbs on these stories and let the comments stand for themselves. All that I see here is a game of semantics and political point scoring. It’s all bollox.
@Brendan Luke Ferron: Where’s the Justice when Gerry Adams knows the name of the man who knows who murdered Brian Stack and will not release it by using the peace process as his excuse.
That’s not justice, restorative or otherwise.
@Linda Nolan: Is the whole controversy not because he did actually pass on what he knows to the Gardai, the information he was given? And by the way if Gerry Adams walked in to a station and said he thinks I carried out the killing it would in no way lead to a conviction as it is just hearsay. This is what it is, a constructed story by an IMN journalist.
@Hugh Mannatee: Its actually only about 5 people i can gauge – one has at least two accounts on the go.
Brendan. You say “Stack gave his word”. Says who? Adams?
@Brinster: f adams should resign then so should kenny his party and ff as they all had a hand in bringing the country to its knees where it still is….
@Linda Nolan: ” austin stack admitted they had the names ” so if stack had the names why didnt he give them to the garda ? so obviously a red herring been thrown out to distract from some thing coming down the line….
@Peter donnelly: Because it was the Gardai who provided Austin Stack with the names.
In his minutes of the meeting, Gerry Adam confirms that Stack told him he had the names and Adams states that Stack did not day where he got the names and his own notes confirm that Stack told Adams that he wasn’t at the meeting to provide names.
In the minutes Gerry Adam records that Stack referred to two names, the initials were redacted – he referred to these two men as being in Portlaoise at the time and Adams states that Stack said that they may have information that may help them.
At no stage in those minutes does Gerry Adam refer to 4 names that Austin Stack gave him who were directly involved in the murder.
If Gerry Adam recorded two sets of initials in relation to the two men who were not present at the murder, then if Austin Stack did give him 4 names – then why didn’t Gerry Adams record them?
@For Connolly:
“Oh this is classic! I’m just seing now that you posted the comment ‘Hi FC’ below it,”
We can all see you saw it at the time because YOU REPLIED TO IT AT THE TIME.
So you’re not “just seeing it now”.
Another huge lie.
And by the way, I had already posted elsewhere on that thread.
Here for example – http://www.thejournal.ie/profile/371646/brendan-luke-ferron-why-wait-years-before-providing-5691551/
Stop it, Stop it, Stop it. I’m tired of the same crap happening all the time. This what happens EVERY TIME, FG or FF attack SF over the ira in the 70s or 80s. Gerry Adam says it false, RTE, Irish Independent make a big deal over it and milk it, Nationalist and SF talk about media bias and how Loyalist and British Army did worse, Journal.ie report the story and attracts trolls from both sides causing a mini-war in the comment section. People move on from the story and nothing happens afterwards. Rinse and repeat. Its gone to the point that any article involving SF, FG and ira I just ignore it.
@Eoin Mulhern:
Sadly, you are right. Only one thing can draw a line under it all and that is an independent truth recovery process to deal with the past conclusively. That would once and for all end the cynical use and abuse of specially selected victims for attention (under the guise of care/sympathy) by lying, cynical FG/FF/Lab TDs and the media. Ironically, SF have been the party most vocal in demanding such a truth recovery process. And why wouldn’t they? They have least to loose, as no group has seen the inside of a prison cell in the same numbers as republicans during the conflict. The reason that the process hasn’t started is because the British Government is blocking it at every possible turn. Why? Because they have most to lose in such a process. Similarly so (albeit not to the same extent) with the Dublin government – they no doubt can’t afford to show their antics in the cover up surrounding the Dublin/Monaghan bombings – the single biggest incident of the conflict.
Does the absence of an independent truth recovery process prevent gerry Adams from telling the truth?
@Tír Eoghain Gael: What your saying is mostly true but to be honest I just don’t care as much as I should about the conflict. I was not even born when this was going on.(70s and 80s) I just hate it how a story like this is on your face 24/7 and same thing happens all the time.
@Patrick Gough: Aren’t you the bloke who constantly claims people get water for free?
While you’re on about telling the truth and all….
@Eoin Mulhern:
“What your saying is mostly true but to be honest I just don’t care as much as I should about the conflict.”
With respect, yes you probably should care more about it. As someone who lived through it’s entirety, I find it both depressing and sheer anger inducing to think on one hand about what nationalists in the six counties like myself have lived through and the things we’ve had seen/had done to us, and yet on the other hand, to think about the sheer disinterest/misunderstanding that people in the 26 counties have about such experiences. I find it utterly shameful that people in the 26 counties can have such a disinterest/detachment/gross lack of understanding of one of the major civil conflicts in Europe of the past 60 years despite the fact that it happened in their own land to their own people.
I can of course understand how stories like this would turn people of wanting to understand things a bit more though. But that is just a by-product of cynical liars in FG/FF/Lab who show such shameless faux outrage and pretend sympathy to only a carefully select few victims and ignore others as long as they possibly can. To listen to Alan Farrell n the radio this morning was typical – claiming his motivation on this story was the sympathy and sense of injustice he felt about this unsolved case of one mans murder in a Dublin street – immediately followed by a brief but revealing and no doubt unintentional admission of disinterest & inaction on the unsolved murders of 34 innocent people in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings. Does he expect anyone to believe that he is heartbroken about the sense of injustice over the shooting of one man when he clearly has no emotions at all about the blowing up for 34 people? Does he honestly think people are thick enough to not see that he is using this one mas death to score cheap political points? Does anone think Labour were genuine in the concern for all victims when they hired Mairia Cahill (a former secretary of the Real IRA’s political wing) as a senator so that she could have a better platform to attack Sinn Féin?
Only an independent truth recover process can end such cynical use and abuse of specifically selected victims.
@Eoin Mulhern: Here is one that was in your time Eoin. Garda Jerry McCabe was shot in cold blood in County Limerick while escorting cash to a Post Office in 1996. 4 were captured 2 got away. SF and Gerry Adams tried their utmost to get these guys out of jail using the GFA agreement. They even escorted them from Jail when they were released a short time later and gave them Garda Killers a standing ovation of the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis. An innocent Garda….. And to this day Gerry Adams and SF will not condone the Killers of this man. Worth reading up on this Eoin and make your own mind up.
@Eoin Mulhern:
As if to perfectly exemplify my point from the last post – along comes Tommy Doran to give a textbook example of someone showing concern for only certain victims – in this case Jerry McCabe, who along with Jean McConville – both for party political reasons – are perhaps the two victims names (out of over 3,000) that get routinely dragged up by people who pretend to care about them but who’s real motivation is party politics. Ask such people as Tommy in he south, who drag up such names as these over and over and over again, to name two vicitms of the british state without using google, and they would be totally stumped.
Again, only an independent truth recovery process can properly get to the bottom of all the issues, and put an end to cynical mouthpieces like Tommy trying to solely focus on a select few “useful” vicims.
See what I mean Eoin
@Tír Eoghain Gael:
The administration of justice would be at risk if the Provos’ political spokesmen got into government. One of the Shinners made the mistake of marrying one of the men who admitted to the killing of Jerry McCabe.
Tir Eoghan. I doubt very much that the families of Gerry McCabe or Jean McConville would see their murders as party political. It was Sinn Fein that clapped and cheered the men who murdered Garda Gerry McCabe, one of whom is back in Prison for the attempted murder of his own wife. How one can describe Armed Robbery in a State that one has supposedly sworn allegiance to and is a citizen of, as “Political” is mind boggling let alone murdering a member of the Police Force of that same State unless they were making the claim that they were in a “State of War” with that State.
TEG – another SF elected official putting his time into online commentary – ye boys are something else. It’s like some sort of bell goes off and ye all rush in- with the exact same line of defence – with a nuanced and subtle change in tone.
@Mick Jordan:
” I doubt very much that the families of Gerry McCabe or Jean McConville would see their murders as party political.”
The point is that those in political and media circles, not the families, who most certainly DO see/use their cases for party political point scoring.
@Old Gabby Johnson:
I am neither a member of SF nor an elected politician, nor a politician. (Though if you believe otherwise, then the burden of proof lies with you who made the claim). I am commentating online though, and I’d hazzard a guess that I’ve posted a helluva lot less that yourself in recent times. So before slinging mud about commentating online, perhaps take a look in the mirror.
@Ciarán Masterson:
“The administration of justice would be at risk if the Provos’ political spokesmen got into government. One of the Shinners made the mistake of marrying one of the men who admitted to the killing of Jerry McCabe.”
Again, Eoin, taking a look down through this page (like every page relating to SF) and the likes of Ciarán and Tommy will pop up to refer specifically to Jerry McCabe and Jean McConville. Lazy political point scoring via the use and abuse of the same two victims, over and over and over and over. How many of those people who refer to Jean McConvile’s death have ever troubled themselves about the death of Joan Connolly or her story? The hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties forbids her name (and countless others) from being even mentioned, let alone discussed). That fact alone is all the evidence required to show that any sympathy expressed by the likes of Ciarán and Tommy for the specific victims they choose to highlight is utterly and totally bogus sympathy. It is transparent political point scoring and nothing more.
@Tír Eoghain Gael: Then who are the Stack Brothers if not the family of a victim of murder?
Nauseating to listen to his attempts at justification for this comments on the radio this morning. On one hand standing up in the Dail and demanding that the two SF TDs who have been linked to the murder should make statements; but today, outside of the comfort and safety of the Dail, having the temerity to say he wasn’t trying to link them to the murder. Perhaps more nauseating though, is his faux sympathy and outrage he expressed on the radio this morning when he said his motivation in this case came from a sense of sympathy over this unsolved murder in the street in Dublin, followed immediately by his causal and relaxed admission that he hasn’t shown any interest in the case of the largest unsolved murder to have taken place on the streets of Dublin (his own county) – i.e. the Dublin/Monaghan bombings. That anyone believes that his motivation on the Stack case is purely based on sympathy rather than pure cynical, cowardly and sick political point scoring, would be frankly amazing.
I think it’s reasonable enough to call what alan farrell did in the Dail yesterday a scripted set piece, delivered in the most wooden,rehearsed, manner possible. Hopefully it will not corrupt any future attempt to convict those who are actually responsible for the murder.
On the flip side, hearing him, in the most mealy mouthed underhanded way possible, drop the name of a rival politician in relation to the murder, only for said politician to point out that he was actually in Jail in Portlaoise when the shooting took place in Dublin, was worth a listen.
The words ‘scarlet for ya alan’ seem appropriate.
I know. How dare he accuse Ellis of being responsible? It was not stack he was responsible for just a load more people with his bomb making.
Current SF politician in jail for IRA related terrorism.
In jail in Portlaoise.
Prison officer working in Portlaoise prison at the same time.
Prison officer shot by IRA colleagues. 30 years later IRA admit they killed the officer but that that it was a renegade operation. And the renegade has been disciplined. But not named or reported to the Gardai or PSNI.
Current Sinn Fein of course knows nothing about this and SF and the IRA are not in anyway related.
@(((Jason))): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumstantial_evidence
Firstly Farrell is an unimportant td who has made a very serious mistake and even his own party arent happy with him. Mattie mcgrath claimed he got a call from a journalist with the names of the 2 td’s and was asked by the journalist to say their names in the dail. He refused. Farrell wont say who gave him the names but without any evidence he stood up and gave their names. So who is this journalist trying to influence a very serious issue?
@Seamus Og: Adams named the two tds
@Seamus Og: any proof for this Mattie McGrath claim or is it heresy just like you’re accusing Farrell of?
JFN. He said it on RTE last night. Is that proof enough???
Seamus. Irrespective of Farrell’s importance or lack of, it is the questions he posed that matter.
Austin Stack confronts Gerry Adams at Dublin hotel, accusing him of being a liar. Sinn Fein and their band of supporters might want this to go away but it definitely won’t. Gerry (never in the IRA) Adams knows who pulled the trigger he should just confess.
@Ollie Golden:
“Austin Stack confronts Gerry Adams at Dublin hotel, accusing him of being a liar.”
Stop the press – an unsubstantiated allegation made against Gerry Adams? Well! I never!
“Sinn Fein and their band of supporters might want this to go away but it definitely won’t.”
SF are well used to allegations being made against Adams without evidence being produced to back them up.
“Gerry (never in the IRA) Adams knows who pulled the trigger he should just confess.”
Any evidence for this?
@Ollie Golden: “Gerry (never in the IRA) Adams knows who pulled the trigger he should just confess.”
Ollie, as you obviously have information that proves Adams is witholding someing, you are required by law to inform the Gardai/PSNI, or you are also breaking the law.
Have you done so?
He’s going to wait 3 yeRs, just like the baron did.
@(((Jason))):
1. Did Micheal Martin go to the Gardaí with the names that Austin Stack admits he gave him?
2. Since Austin Stack was requesting and needed Gerry Adams’ assistance in his campaign to get to the truth – why would he have given the names of four people he was told had information to Michael Martin, but then not to Adams?
Ollie, gerry adams probably knows quite a few ex ira members. Do you suggest he gives all their names to the authorities? There wouldnt be much left of the ceasefire if he done this. These guys have all bought into the gfa.
@(((Jason))):
In your own time, James.
@Tír Eoghain Gael:
Sorry, Jason.
I had to laugh at Ellis asking him outside. Most unparlimentary language!
@Charlie Wrex: Obviously you know very little about Dail rules … anything you say in the Dail cannot be held against you. However, if that FG muppet had gone outside and repeated his assertions, he could have been sued. See how quickly FG backtracked, once they knew they were caught out badly.
@Cal, Obviously i do. The outraged former terrorists over reacted. It was hilarious.
political posturing by a weak establishment
By his own admission he was only a kid when the ceasefires were called. He doesnt understand what he has got himself into. This is very serious.
I am sure Kevin Doyle of the Independent is NOT the person who asked the TD’s to say this in the Dail – he wouldn’t do that sort of thing at all, at all!
@Brendan Luke Ferron:
I asked you this yesterday and you ignored it then. Maybe you’ll answer now.
Why did Gerry Adams wait 2 years before providing the names to the Gardaí?
@Brinster: Because he was told they came from the Gardai, are you a bit thick?
He passed them on when Martin raised this and it became clear it was being staged managed by FF and Journalists with the end game of saying he withheld information. Has the Fianna Fail leader Stack told the same names to been to the Gardai yet?
Stack asked for this process, thanked Adams for it, but he is now a puppet for the INM – he agreed to to a confidential process but now has gone down this route – lesson learned I would imagine going forward, until a truth process is set up the likes of the Stack’s can hang in the wind.
@Brinster: “Why did Gerry Adams wait 2 years before providing the names to the Gardaí?”
Adams gave his explanation yesterday, as has been pointed out to you multiple times.
You’re becoming the journals eqivalent of some INM hack which asks Adams the same question for 20 years and gets the same answer everytime. Embarrassing.
@Brendan Luke Ferron:
“@Brinster: He passed them on when Martin raised this”
SF Councillor confirms the only reason Gerry Adams gave information to the Gardaí relevant to an open murder investigation is because Michael Martin made him do it.
I think that is the most pathetic thing I have ever read here.
Absolutely shameful.
@Brinster: Personally if a person said to me that the Gardai have information about a certain event I would feel absolutely no compulsion to pass on information you already know they are in possession off, why would you? As I say this is a ball of smoke created by a journalist in INM, but is an important lesson to us all, until such times that a mechanism is put in place to deal with these issues politicians should simply not get involved, because all a person has is thier word and obviously that is not worth a whole lot in this case.
Brendan. But the information you have may not be exactly the same as what the Gardai have and even a slight diffrence could provide information that blow the case wide open. As such it would be your duty to the state you are a citizen of to provide any and all information to the Gardai irrespective of what you think they may or may not have.
I find it exhaustingly repetitive, whenever anyone mentions the fact of Gerry Adams’ membership of the IRA, that many people are quick to jump in and say something along the lines of “If you have any evidence of Gerry Adams’ membership of the IRA, I’d like to hear it”.
Exactly what more evidence do these people need?
Let’s look at this way.
EVIDENCE GERRY ADAMS WAS IN THE IRA
* The fact that there are photographs of Adams at an IRA funeral in Belfast in 1971, as part of the cortege, wearing an IRA uniform and standing beside Martin Meehan (a man who never denied he was a member of the IRA).
* The fact that Adams flew to England in 1972 to negotiate on behalf of the IRA during a short-lived truce, along with Martin McGuiness, Sean Mac Stiofain Daithi O’Conaill, Seamus Twomey and Ivor Bell, all of whom were in the IRA (why would all these IRA men bring a non-IRA man with them to negotiate on behalf of their organisation?).
* The fact that Adams wrote columns for An Phoblacht, the IRA’s newspaper, under the pseudonym ‘Brownie’, and in 1976 wrote an article stating the following
“Rightly or wrongly, I am an IRA volunteer and, rightly or wrongly, I take a course of action as a means to bringing about a situation in which I believe the people of my country will prosper. The course I take involves the use of physical force, but only if I achieve the situation where my people can genuinely prosper can my course of action be seen, by me, to have been justified . . . I cannot complain if I am hurt, if I am killed or if I am imprisoned. I must consider these things as possible and probable eventualities . . . I have no one to blame but myself.”
* The fact that Mario Biaggi, a former US Representative and Roman Catholic of Italian descent, maintains that Gerry Adams refused any suggestions of an IRA truce in 1979, when they met in the Europa Hotel in Belfast in 1979. (Again, why would a man who claims to have never been a member of the IRA refuse any suggestions of an IRA truce? And why would Biaggi, with no dog in the hunt on either side, lie about such an event?)
* The fact that historians and journalists (Ed Moloney, Peter Taylor, Mark Urban, Richard English) have repeatedly stated that Gerry Adams was in the IRA, and not a single one has ever been sued by Adams.
* The fact that former IRA members such as Sean O’Callaghan, Anthony McIntrye, Brendan Hughes, Richard O’Rawe and Sean Mac Stiofain have all said that Adams was in the IRA.
EVIDENCE GERRY ADAMS WAS NOT IN THE IRA
* Adams says he wasn’t.
As far as I am concerned, anyone at this stage who asks for evidence of Adams’ IRA membership is one of either two things
(1) Obstinate, and refusing to admit that they believe Adams was a member of the IRA because they are glad he got away with it.
(2) Genuinely unintelligent.
- credit to makeemlaugh, boards.ie
JFN-you are in for it now,all the shinners will be after you- How dare you say such a thing?
My God right before the last Election that rag owned by the Government the INDO did 2 page spreads on Martin Ferris which was complete and utter lies . It printed nothing only old stories about the IRA which was a disgrace with RTE not far behind everybody is supposed to be moving forward it’s a pity they don’t talk more about Jailing a few BANKERS .
@Donal Carey: Did Martin Ferris collect the Murderers of Garda Jerry McCabe from Prison in Portlaoise??? think I have a picture somewhere if you need it, I Am Martin Ferris would know who the 2 were that got away seeing that he is so friendly with the Garda Murderers, these were the same murderers that SF gave a standing ovation to at their Ard Fheis. So what ever is written about Martin Ferris I would tend to believe, But maybe you know better Donal
Fair play to him.
“On the record of this house. In 2013 I met with gardaí at their request regarding the death of Brian Stack,” said Ferris.”
This just doesn’t stack up (pardon the pun), Ferris admits he was questioned in relation to the murder in 2013. Gerry Adams provided his name to the Gardai in February 2016 and then alleged that the name came from Austin Stack.
How can anyone have accused Gerry Adams of withholding this information from the Gardai?
The information he is withholding relates to the senior IRA man that he arranged the meeting with, this man knows who murdered Brian Stack:
“Mr Adams last night told the Dáil he had tried to help the Stack family in 2013 but that the names of IRA officials needed to be kept secret for the sake of the peace process. ”
This is the information that he is withholding and that he admits to withholding “for the sake of the peace process”.
“Deputy Adams knows the name of the individual who we met. That individual has information that is pertinent to a live murder investigation. Deputy Adams did not address that in his statement. He did not confirm he will talk to gardaí and hand over the name of an individual who says he knows the people who killed my father, who knows where those people are and knows they are alive.”
@Linda Nolan:
“This just doesn’t stack up (pardon the pun)”
Classy. Proof, if proof were needed, that those shouting most about this case have zero sympathy or respect or concern for the Stack family, and are motivated purely by sickening political opportunism. Not that anyone really thinks otherwise.
FF the Republican Party…they still haven’t the backbone to ask the British government for their files on the Dublin/Monaghan bombings or call for the immediate arrest of the two paras that went on a killing spree during the Ballymurphy, Bloody Sunday massacres
Hypocrites.
To little to late from FG. The damage is done. It’s so typical of their parish pump politics. One of the main reasons would never vote for them mud slinging is their main forte. Michael Martin was not far behind them this morning. The stack family are entitled to any information on the death of their dad. That said Gerry Adams played a major part in the peace we now experience on this country and where were Enda and Michael Martin – still ducking and diving. Michael Martin has, this morning, lost his party a vote on this house.
What about?
Deflection of the main story Stephen? Tut Tut.
Apparently 6 months or more in jail renders you ineligible to be a td. didn’t dessie ellis spend more time in jail?
At a time when thousands of citizens of this republic are treated worse than dogs at the vets in our hospitals . Our elect elite keep digging up dirt from 30 years ago of troubled times as a distraction to their own failures in government in every department..
Michael. Should the State ignore Capital Murder now just because 30 years have passed? If you think it should then should it also apply to historic Child Abuse too? There is no time limit for murder.
@Mick Jordan: let the police do their job its their job to solve it not so called TDs in the Dail
@Michael Maher: But if certain TD’s have information or knowledge about those involved in criminal activities and are choosing to remain silent for reasons known only to them, and if another unrelated TD believes that those other TD’s have that info or knowledge that could see the Gardai investigation advancing then it behoves that TD to bring forth the names of those others to the House. Because as an Elected Member of the Dail their loyalty should be first and fore most to the Security of the State.
@Mick Jordan: Tell me is this what people voted for to listen to this mumbo jumbo every time a question is asked in parliament? When the elected members should be doing what we are paying them for which is the business of running the country and sorting out the economic mess they created
DOB still influencing the dail.mr Farrell,you are a puppet,shame on you doing another’s dirty work,its your responsibility to check facts.
SF need to make a statement on information they have about who caused global warming.
None of this is going to help the stack family who have being seeking justice since 1983. Victims of war are never murdered because the point of war is to kill your enemy. The cost for a solider of disobeying his orders is death, for cowardice against the enemy. SF are no amateurs when it comes to pushing the rules of Dáil Éireann. Gerrys statement was always going to attract a lone wolf attack by FG . Most of the FG party were not even present and abusing dail procedures could end a ministers chance for another pension so the job was left to a backbencher. It used to be FF attacking FG over a civil war or vice versa, now it’s FF/FG/lab attacking SF because Gerry is an easy target. no one believes he was not a member of the IRA. He memory lapses on outstanding issues such as the disappeared also weakens his position outside of SF. Gerry does not want to return to prison so he lies about his membership of the IRA, much like a former hunger striker turns to his English passport to advoid his responsibilities. We should never forget that Irish governments were also involved, from that gunrunner haughty to collusion between the IRA and Gardai. Maybe that is what is needed that family’s of victims are given priority instead of state secrets or protecting leadership figures. After every war on this island we never heal any open wounds instead we infect politics with our hate for our old enemy. Each generation following the last with unquestionable loyality to politicial party’s. Someday a generation will come along who will not tolerate this type of politicial games instead demand that there elected officials carry out the mandate given to them at election time.
Here is Adams speaking about a meeting with the Stacks in 2013.
“SINN FÉIN LEADER Gerry Adams is to meet the family of a prison officer who was shot and fatally injured outside the National Stadium in Dublin 30 years ago.”
Here is Adams admitting the IRA was responsible and apologising on behalf of SF.
“SINN FÉIN PRESIDENT Gerry Adams has today confirmed that that the IRA was responsible for the death of prison officer Brian Stack, who was shot in Dublin 30 years ago.”
Here is Adams just before the election:
“SINN FÉIN LEADER Gerry Adams has said that the son of a prison officer killed by the IRA over three decades ago has given him the names of two people the family believes to have been involved in his death.”
“His son, Austin, has claimed that two Sinn Féin members were involved in the attack. He has not stated the source of his information.
Speaking to reporters this afternoon, Adams urged anyone with information about the killing to contact gardaí.”
It was Gerry Adams who alleged that Austin Stack provided the name of two suspects who were involved in the attack on his father.
“It’s up to the gardaí. He did give me names but these are allegations,” he said.
These are very serious charges. This man should not have been shot … I’ve made that very clear.”
But despite saying in February 2016 that Austin Stack “never stated the source of his information”, he then said:
“Since then the position of Austin Stack has changed.
“In 2013 Austin Stack gave me the names of four people whom he believed might have information on the case. Austin Stack told me that he had been given these names by journalistic and Garda sources. Austin Stack has denied giving me names.”
Blatant lies by Gerry Adams.
@leartius:
“None of this is going to help the stack family who have being seeking justice since 1983.”
Are you seriously naive enough to believe that FG/FF/Lab are purely motivated by a desire to help the Stack family? FFS if sympathy for an unsolved murder victims family was their only motivation, they’d be screaming from the rooftops for justice for families of each of the 34 people blown up in the Dublin/Monaghan bombings.
They are not in this campaign to help the Stack family. They are in it to score cheap, opportunistic political points.
Interesting article. It could be improved if the title was, ‘Fine Gael TD importunes he is not conjugating the Brian Stack murder to Sinn Féin deputies’ instead of, ‘Fine Gael TD insists he is not linking Sinn Féin deputies to Brian Stack murder’.
More leaks in the gda to Mr Farrell?.
“Stack was shot by members of the Provisional IRA as he left a boxing match in Dublin” Who said it was members of the Provisional IRA, where is the evidence.
@Declan Carr:
The Provisional IRA said it was the Provisional IRA.
I know SF fanboys are blinkered, but seriously.
Gerry knows folks… Gerry knows.
If you listen carefully to the tape it sounds like Ellis asked Farrell outside. I would love to know what happened?
Don’t you just love F.G.
Is this not called back tracking?
The shinners constantly trying to spin and rewrite history casting themselves as the heroes of course, but a quick google search tells a very different story and many more just like what happened to Mr Stack. His family are an inconvenient reminder of the facts of what went on in the seventies eighties and nineties. Skeletons will keep falling out of the closet on top of Adams and co, but where is Mary Lou, oh so silent ?
Fine Gael & Alan Farrell backing down again shame on you Farrell with your big mouth have you anything else to talk about in the Dail besides accusing two men of murder what don’t you roar about the state of our health service and of that of our roads()
The never ending smire campaign against sinn fein continues .Gerry Adams never done anything on the stack family. He got shafted for trying to help them. He’s not responsible for the stack murder. It’s just a pity FF & FG are putting the family up to this for there own partys gain . blaming Gerry Adams seams to be a trend of right wing party’s “sure just blame Gerry” . So far all I see here is gossip false accusations and a cheap shot at sinn fein. Nobody ever talked about why stack was shot perhaps that could lead to the shooter. ?
have your say