LAST UPDATE | 4 Jun
THE LEADERS OF the UK’s two major political parties had their first televised debate of the general election campaign on ITV this evening and it proved to a be a more energetic affair than might have been expected.
Conservative leader and Prime Minister Rishi Sunak squared off against Labour leader Keir Starmer.
It was fairly tetchy between the two candidates throughout the debate as at different points each accused the other of talking “nonsense”.
When we returned after the halfway break, the candidates were asked to stop talking over each other.
Both men drew rounds of applause at different points, as well as some laughter from the audience in the ITV studio.
“The arsonists handed back the matches,” is how Starmer described the prospect of reelecting the Conservatives.
While Sunak said “you don’t know what you’d get” with Starmer and Labour.
“In uncertain times, we simply can’t afford an uncertain prime minister.”
Rishi Sunak’s defence of his national service plan for young people got a laugh out of the crowd, and not for any reason he’d like. Starmer called the idea a “teenage Dad’s Army”.
“All you can do is sneer at it,” said Sunak. “You don’t have big ideas like that.”
“If it’s such a brilliant idea, why has it taken you 14 years to come up with it?” asked Starmer.
“All you can do is talk about the past,” Sunak said multiple times during the hour-long debate.
“He’s ashamed of the last 14 years,” retorted Starmer. “All he can do is say please look at the future.”
As expected, immigration came up, particularly the subject of people crossing the English Channel in small boats.
Starmer called Sunak the “most liberal Prime Minister we’ve ever had on immigration”.
Sunak touted his Rwanda policy and asked Starmer what he would do with people who have arrived in the UK “illegally”.
“I’m going to put people on planes, what are you going to do?” he asked.
Starmer referred to the Rwanda deportation plan as a “gimmick” and said there has been “a pattern” of Sunak making promises – like reducing immigration numbers – and then breaking them.
The candidates were asked it they would withdraw from membership of the European Court of Human Rights.
Sunak said he will “choose security over a foreign court” while Starmer said he would not withdraw from international institutions and agreements.
Sunak has claimed that “20 European countries” have agreed with his Rwanda policy, which would see asylum seekers sent to Rwanda without the possibility of returning to the UK.
Starmer said he would be in favour of outsourcing asylum claims if it complies with international law.
Starmer said the situation in Gaza is “catastrophic and intolerable” and that a peaceful solution is what is needed, after being asked by an audience member about the UK taking a “leadership role” in international affairs.
Sunak thanked Starmer for joining him in saying Israel “has the right to defend itself”.
Strangely, Sunak touted UK troop involvement in the building of the now broken US-made pier in Gaza, which was supposed to help get more aid to starving people there.
On defence more broadly, Starmer said Sunak’s accusation that Labour won’t keep the UK as safe as the Conservatives is “shocking”.
Starmer said that while he was prosecuting terrorists for the UK government, Sunak was “betting against the UK economy” during the financial crisis.
Starmer kept saying “shocking” and “desperate” under his breath as Sunak spoke.
They were asked if they would have a “special relationship” with Donald Trump if he’s elected. Both men say yes.
Straight off the bat, the candidates were asked about the cost of living crisis that continues to affect the UK.
An audience member said she doesn’t think the two leaders understand the struggles of ordinary people.
Sunak said that progress is being made in this area but that Covid and the war in Ukraine had been factors in delayed economic recovery.
“If he thought the plan was working, he wouldn’t have called a general election,” Starmer said of Sunak’s claim that inflation is coming down and wages are going up.
@RishiSunak makes his opening statement during the first head-to-head debate of the General Election.
— ITV News (@itvnews) June 4, 2024
Watch live on ITV1, ITVX and on the @ITVNews website. #ITVDebatehttps://t.co/1jKrS2E5UV pic.twitter.com/s2homg2CPp
Sunak kept coming back to the Labour leader tax policy, which he said will will mean a £2,000 tax rise.
Starmer said Sunak is the “British expert” in tax rises and described the figure of £2,000 as “garbage”.
He says the PM has asked his own civil servants to cost “pretend Labour policies”, which he argues is the source of the £2,000 figure.
Sunak kept coming back to the refrain of “bold action”, clearly a phrase he had planned to lean on tonight. He was quite aggressive and persistent in asking Starmer about his tax policy.
Sir @Keir_Starmer makes his opening statement during the first head-to-head debate of the General Election.
— ITV News (@itvnews) June 4, 2024
Watch live on ITV1, ITVX, and the @ITVNews website. #ITVDebatehttps://t.co/1jKrS2E5UV pic.twitter.com/kJbOFVDTSz
There were groans from the audience when Sunak blamed long waiting lists in the National Health Service on industrial action.
Starmer said, “This is the guy who says he’s good at maths,” in reference to increases in waiting list numbers while Sunak said they had come down. This got a laugh from the audience.
Sunak did get a short round of applause when he said he supports the work of NHS staff.
Starmer seemed stumped by Sunak’s repeated questions about how he would deal with strikes and pay disputes with healthcare staff.
On education, Starmer drew applause for a pledge to remove tax benefits for private school.
Elsewhere on tax, Starmer also got a round of applause for saying that he would get rid of non-dom status, which essentially allows people to be resident in the UK without paying taxes there.
Rishi Sunak’s Conservative Party is currently trailing Keir Starmer’s Labour by 20 points in the polls and a recent projection from YouGov said that, as things stand, Labour looks set to win 422 of the 650 seats in parliament once voting concludes on 4 July.
To make matters worse for Sunak, who called this election early to the surprise of many, Nigel Farage kicked off his campaign today as leader of Reform UK, in a move that is expected to take even more votes away from the Tories.
While Farage was grabbing more headlines today in Clacton, where he had a milkshake thrown in his face, Sunak has spent the day off the campaign trail preparing for tonight’s debate.
Sunak’s campaign so far has been lacklustre to say the least. He even felt the need last week to remind Conservative MPs that campaigning was not optional, after one of his colleagues jetted off to Greece on holiday.
Starmer meanwhile has been touting his party’s credentials in the area of defence this week, posing with ten Labour candidates who have all served in the UK’s armed forces. This is consistent with the party’s tack to the right under his leadership and his aim of making Labour supporters unafraid to be “patriotic”.
The stories that have been following the Labour campaign over the last week, and indeed throughout Starter’s leadership, have revolved around what critics have called a “purge” of candidates on the left of the party.
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