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TÁNAISTE AND DEFENCE Minister Simon Harris says he’s now “convinced” that Ireland needs a squadron of fighter jet interceptors to police its airspace.
“I am convinced of that case. I think we’re living in a geo-security, geo-political environment that is volatile, that is different. We have a lot of catching up to do.”
“I think there are sensible things for any modern European country to do. In fact, I think it’s very it’s a very important step [fighter jets], but I need to be clear with people on this. This is a journey. This is a process.”
Ireland does not have its own capability to police its airspace and does not have any fighter jets to respond to airborne threats.
It has been repeatedly claimed that the British Royal Air Force is the go-to for Ireland when there is a threat above the skies.
At present, there is a small fleet in the Irish Air Corps of PC9 propeller trainers which have limited capability in responding to slow moving aircraft but nothing to respond to, for example, a hijacked aircraft or aircraft from a foreign country entering Irish airspace.
Harris said that he has directed the Department of Defence to begin preparations to move the Irish Defence Forces towards the highest level of military funding, of the three levels put forward by the Commission on the Defence Forces in 2022.
Speaking at the opening of two new facilities in the Cadet School and the Transport in the Curragh Camp this morning, Harris said that he has directed the Department of Defence to begin preparations to move the Irish Defence Forces towards the highest level of military funding.
At present Ireland spends about €1.3billion on Defence – the highest proposed level is at least double that annually.
An individual fighter jet would cost around €60m and a squadron would on average be 12 jets. The costs increase as there is a huge amount of support workers as well as pilots needed.
There will be a need for specialist military radar also.
“For government, it’s about delivering level of ambition two, and then, as our programme for government said, about moving towards level of ambition three,” Harris said, adding that he’d asked his officials to begin work on analysing what that transition would look like.
As revealed last week by The Journal Ireland has contracted the US Defense Department agency the Institute for Security Governance (ISG) as consultants to advise on reorganisation of the Irish Air Corps, army and navy.
Sources have said the ISG has recently met with Irish Air Corps (IAC) leaders to discuss the change of the organisation to a more air force style structure.
Lieutenant General Seán Clancy, Chief of Staff of the Irish Defence Forces, who is set to move to Europe as the chair of the EU military committee expanded on how the move to jet fighters could be done.
“Just to reinforce what the Tánaiste has just said about the aircraft, this is a layered approach, a stepped approach.
“You first have to get the primary radar, you have to get the enablers, and the final end state is the quick reaction aircraft that will do interception, but in the meantime, you will have detection, deterrence, and you build your capabilities at step on step, and then at that point in time is when the government will make a decision based on that,” he said.
Sources have said that there are a number of options already being discussed as possible solutions – these include the Swedish Gripen, the French Raffaele, the US F16 or the joint US and Korean jet the F50.
The Journal has learned that military industry officials have already begun pitching to Ireland the purchase of the aircraft.
In 2022, in a presentation to a defence summit organised by non-profit policy group Slándáil in Dublin, JR Wildridge of Lockheed Martin suggested that Ireland could get new fighters from his company – including the F16 or the cheaper South Korean manufactured FA-50 jet.
The Commission on the Defence Forces in 2022 proposed 130 points of action for the military, with one of the major projects a primary radar plan to place surveillance equipment at strategic locations across the country to, not only monitor Irish skies, but also to monitor shipping traffic.
Should be 50 thousand euro fine.
@Gerard Carey: And the undocumented person sent straight to a detention centre until deportation to wherever the plane came from!
@Dave Callaghan: Afghanistan doesn’t issue passports to citizens anymore. So, what happens people trying to flee the taliban? Deport them back again?
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: Well, they won’t get a direct flight to Ireland, so maybe they should seek asylum in the first safe country they land in, as per the rules of asylum seeking.
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: yes
@Mike Carson: No such rule exists Mike. Whatever concerns you might have about immigration are completely undermined by telling lies such as this. Try coming up an honest argument and you might get a bit more traction.
@Kevin Collins:EU law provides four safe country concepts which can be applied: ‘First country of asylum: Asylum seekers and refugees may be returned to a country where they have, or could have, sought international protection and where their safety would not be jeopardised, whether in that country or through a return from the first country to the country of origin.’ (European Union Agency for Asylum). Don’t make stuff up Kevin.. or perhaps educate yourself before commenting in future..
@Brian: https://gript.ie/refugees-having-to-stop-at-first-safe-country-is-a-far-right-myth-varadkar/
@Brian: This does not mean that an asylum seeker is required to apply in that first country though, it just means that if an application is refused in e.g. Ireland, then it is possible for Ireland to deport them to that first country. It’s not a grounds for refusal in Ireland either.
There was literally an article about this a few months ago which explains the regime. Like I said, there is a lot of misunderstanding (and outright lies) surrounding the topic so please follow your own advice and educate yourself before commenting further.
https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-regulation-asylum-seekers-first-safe-country-6269603-Jan2024/
@Kevin Collins: So your Journal article trumps the written word of EU law as quoted back to you.. and our own government and national and international media are guilty of lying to us.. Id say put a bit more thought into this Kevin… and not solely rely on a Journal article ..
@Brian: The fact that you don’t understand the EU law in this area doesn’t actually change the law Brian nor does it mean our government or media are lying to you. The journal article does a good job of explaining the situation without the legalese, which is that there is NO obligation to claim asylum in the first safe country. This is a fact, whether you agree with it or not. Feel free to take a case challenging this if you like. Or just continue believing and spouting falsehoods, which is not going to achieve anything.
@Kevin Collins:Well let’s say for the sake of argument that you’re right.. I have at the very least ably demonstrated,within the EUs own regulations and said belief being held and repeated by multiple government sources and national and international media. For you to turn around and call someone a liar for repeating what they have been informed to be the truth by all these so called trusted sources.. is despicable. And you seem to think you understand EU law because you read a Journal article.. I suggest you broaden the scope in terms of sources..
@Brian: as I have stated above, and as explained in the journal article, the provision of EU law you cited is relevant in the context of a decision to refuse asylum but does not itself create an obligation to apply for asylum in a first country. I’ll give you some credit and say you are not intentionally lying, but you are simply misinformed and/or do not understand the legal text. Have a read of the full Directive there (or more accurately, the transposing statutory instrument) and you won’t see it stated anywhere that an asylum applicant needs to apply in a first country. I appreciate that may not necessarily approve of this situation, but that is how the asylum mechanism operates across the EU.
@Kevin Collins:’ That followed calls by Greece, Italy and Malta last month to overhaul the Dublin Regulation, whereby refugees must seek asylum in the first country they enter. ’ The Journal ie ’23
@Brian: we haven’t signed up to this and not yet implemented, so Kevin is right,
@Kevin Collins: window shopping
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: If they have no passport, please explain how they end up on a commercial airline? Stop virtuesignalling for fake asylum seekers, dude. You are not helping anyone, especially genuine asylum seekers who are in real trouble. Everybody can see this sham for what it is now. Stop making yourself look foolish with this bs rhetoric.
@YKwkSIqW: the example that Sean gave is exactly that of a genuine refugee. So he/she travels on falsified docs and destroys them on arrival. So cut the virtue signalling accusation nonsense and go learn something about the subject
How many fines have been issued prior to today, I would wager that the figure is Nil. Helen Mc Entre flat out proposing things now, pure electioneering, proposing things that should have been done years ago. Bit late now, they have lost the people, who no longer have any trust or faith in the Establishment.
@SV3tN8M4: Quite a few actually, and not difficult to find this information – https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41316454.html. Seems a bit unfair to me though as passengers are destroying their travel docs on arrival.
@SYaxJ2Ts: then they don’t have docs to enter- simple really. And therein
Lies the first criminal offence – destruction of a legal document
@You’re Not Serious: so why fine the airline?
New procedure for all airports for passengers boarding a plane should be a scan of the passport and then saved and kept at the point of departure.
Immigration can then check with airport of departure for a copy of the scanned document that disappeared “mysteriously” while the person was in flight.
There is no way in hell that one will be allowed to board a flight from the UK, for example, without a valid travel document.
@George Vladisavljevic: The discarded documents have to be on the plane somewhere . You can’t flush them down the toilet. Would such documents not be handed to immigration authorities when found?
@Patrick MC Dermott: Might be easier to find on a memory stick, for example than trying to find the physical one on a plane somewhere.
@George Vladisavljevic:
Excellent idea.
I thought the papers had to be shown,on arrival too.
No papers ,no entry.
@Patrick MC Dermott:
Of course a passport could be flushed if it was torn into small pieces. Easier to flush on an airplane toilet than any other one.
@Patrick MC Dermott: The People Trafficker travels with the migrants and collects the passports from them before disembarking and takes the passports with him out of the airport, presumably for re-use!
@Patrick MC Dermott: You show your documents at passport control. When you get of the plane just flush them down the toilet or even throw them in the bin before you reach passport control.
It should be the person breaking the law that should be arrested fined and removed from the state
Noone should ever be on a flight without a passport scan.
If they destroy the passport on board the airline must produce the scan of the passport they used when boarding.
Failure to do this €80,000 fine to the airline and the passenger is jailed until his/her identity is established
How can you even board a plane to Ireland without a travel document? It’s not a domestic flight from Europe, we’re not in the Schengen area
And if the passport is destroyed during the flight it can hardly be the airline’s fault can it?
@Jerry LeFrog:
Agreed, but it should be simple to verify what documents were used to book the flight and get through security at the departing airport. Either way they should be sent packing back to wherever they came from.
That’s pennies for an airline
Not before time!
Try going through pre-screening in Dublin or Shannon for the US, without a passport.
@George Vladisavljevic:
Yes, It can be hard enough to get into the US even with a valid passport !
Helen said may be fined, not very positive. Can they can collect their free travel pass in Belfast?
@Criostoir Mac Raghnaill: Yeah, because we have laws and due process.
How much have the Govt. collected so far? Journal please check!
@Patrick MC Dermott: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41316454.html
How many instances has the current €3,000 fine been issued?
The way it works is this: person gets on plane with someone who has already made an application or already has status in yhe country etc. When the plane lands at airport person A hands passport etc to person B. Person B goes through immigration and person A seeks asylum. When Person A is out and about they meet Person B and get their documents back.
Sometimes in the past there used to be a solicitor waiting for them airtime.
I know a guy who went to China, had a visa. Lost his passport boarding the plane and was put on the next plane back to where he came from.
@Washpenrebel:
I would imagine that happens in most countries. Here we give them accommodation, 3 meals a day, a medical card and pocket money ! Like winning the lotto when you’ve come from a mud hut in west Africa. We’re being taken for mugs.
@Regular John: It’s called humanity.
@Sean O’Dhubhghaill: It’s called gullibility!
@Regular John: a mud hut in West Africa?
5000 euro fine pathetic they should be made pay to support the illegals if they bring them in not the Irish tax payers ,support them and pay to deport them .
1. What if one is travelling from the UK to Belfast? No passport required.
2. At what point is missing documentation a cause for fining the airline? Stands to reason if flying from Europe or UK directly to Ireland one cannot board a plane without I.D, but what of no such I.D on arrival from either origin.
This law does not sound water tight. I’m thinking Revenue should start making, and most certainly enforcing the law.
@Keth Tgi: Very debatable point coming (tin hat on), and it will inflame many but legally UK to Belfast is UK to UK, same as UK to Manchester etc. I only see 2 options – 1) stick up a border at Newry and Ireland either join Schengen or enforce their own system, or 2) create a common travel area system with UK with harmonised controls / visa etc and share data (similar to Schengen). Both have massive issues and will inflame many.
Using EU influence to pressure the French to tackle the small boats leaving for the UK (and eventually Ireland) would probably have more effect.
If this isn’t sorted out soon… and government don’t start listening then we have serious problems coming our way… but this government continues to ignore its own ppl
If a passenger tears up their passport and flushes it down the toilet how is the airline going to stop that? However the passenger does have to give their passport details to the airline in order to fly. Why isn’t there an arrangement that if the passenger then has no passport when arriving at their destination then the airline simply hands the details over? Am I missing something? Is it not that simple?
Make it €50,000 . That’ll ensure they’re checked thoroughly .
It’s time fg ff start listening to us.. ppl being called racists, we are worried bout our country.. they plan to double our population in a few yrs… we can’t look after the ppl living here already.
It’s not jus planes it’s either… they’re coming in storage containers boats trucks throw the ports aswel… these ppl smugglers have been doing this for yrs it’s not new… ffs ppl need wake up the amount of sheep protecting these ppl is crazy… they have no right to come here from safe countries telling lies to stay here…
If you look at the news you will see they are using smugglers who travel on said flight… who takes passports off them on the plane… when they arrive in Dublin they claim asylum… and have the right to stay here until their claim is processed… a guy from south Korea was caught recently with two womans passports who were in the same flight… they had tryed claim asylum when they landed
They are coming from moldova Albania Pakistan, Tunisia algeria Georgia… and most coming from Nigeria… some are saying they are lgbti and can’t return to Nigeria due to persecution?? Most of them are liars… I’ve seen interviews online one Nigerian woman says she escaped a prostitution ring in England and came here… more lies they don’t wanna go to Rwanda
Simon Harris seems to think ppl love, running round like a complete bellend ignoring the irish the irish the ppl he works for and pay his wages he’ll find out the hard way
The airline’s I use always check, there being put down the loo because they know Ireland will house them, so please gov stop talking rubbish,there must be an election coming.we Irish are so dimwitted at times.
I don’t understand this, can somebody help me out? When I travel I can only get through customs having presented my travel documents, I do not believe anybody is legally req’d to present their travel documents at a boarding gate (unless a customs officer or Law enforcement official is requesting) – so how can the 5k fine be legally enforced?
I really think the airlines might fight this one.
have your say