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THERE ARE MANY unanswerable questions of our time.
How long is a piece of string? A classic.
How do you solve a problem like Maria? Who knows.
How many roads must a man walk down before you can call him a man?
Perhaps another one we could add to that list is: How do you get a TD to answer a question?
There are some topics people just don’t want to talk about.
Abortion is one of them. It’s controversial. It divides people. And, in a politician’s world, your stance on it can cost you – or get you – votes.
TheJournal.ie recently carried out a survey of every TD and minister to see where they stand on repealing the Eighth Amendament – the section of the constitution that gives the unborn the same right to life as their mother.
The wording of the amendment is:
The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right.
It was added to Bunreacht na hÉireann in 1983 after 67% of people who voted in a referendum backed it.
There have been repeated calls for the article to be removed, with many people saying it puts the life of the mother at risk, and that women should have the final say in what happens their bodies – not the state or the church.
Pro-life activists, on the other hand, say the amendment is needed to protect the unborn’s right to life. Some people are open to the amendment being changed, but want to see it replaced with something else.
Diversions and distractions
Just under half (48%) of TDs replied – 76 out of 158.
The majority of respondents want the amendment to be repealed: 47 (62% of the replies). While 22 others (30%) said they don’t want it repealed. Three said they don’t know and four replied without giving a definitive answer.
Many did not reply at all, despite several attempts to reach them via email, telephone and in person over the past three weeks.
To be clear, we gave deputies on the ‘refused to respond’ list multiple opportunities to answer the questions – more so than we have on previous audits like this.
Some of the reasons TDs or their assistants gave for not answering the survey were interesting. Sadly, no one said their dog ate the email but here are a few of our favourite responses:
Through the course of doing the survey we also discovered that some TDs like to have their emails printed out before they read them.
We were also asked, on several occasions, to re-send the email so it was “on the top of the pile”.
To be fair, ministers and TDs are busy and some may have just forgotten to reply. Others might have genuinely not spotted the survey or, as a rule, just don’t reply to them.
Many though, it seems, really don’t want to talk about abortion.
It’s been an interesting and frustrating few weeks. It will be some time before I want to make a phone call or look at a spreadsheet again.
Some politicians have very passionate opinions on the eighth – on both sides of the argument. They want to discuss the topic.
On the other hand, many of them have quite the knack for saying a lot to say nothing.
‘A minefield’
One TD spent a few minutes explaining over the phone why he was “too busy” to answer the questions.
Others simply didn’t want to answer and were upfront about this. One told us: “I’m not getting into that minefield.”
Another TD was overheard in Leinster House telling a colleague “The f***ing Journal is asking us about abortion again.” He was unsure of what to say and did not reply.
We also asked some deputies their stances in person. A few people gave a direct answer (thank you), while most promised to reply but quickly changed the subject. They usually did not respond.
Some people are of the opinion that the media is making the Eighth Amendment a bigger issue than it is.
There has been much debate about the amendment in recent years, particularly in relation to the death of Savita Halappanavar in 2012, who was denied a termination, and the case of a braindead woman who was kept on life support in December 2014, against the wishes of her family, because she was pregnant.
The spotlight was again cast on the amendment last month when the United Nations called for a referendum to be held on repealing it.
Successive governments have discussed the issue, and some changes have been made.
Most recently, the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 came into force on 1 January 2014. It allows access to an abortion in Ireland where there is a real and substantial risk to the woman’s life, including through suicide.
Bills to expand abortion access in terms of repealing the eighth amendment, or for terminations to be allowed in cases of fatal foetal abnormality were defeated in the last Dáil.
Some 3,451 women travelled from the Republic of Ireland to the UK to have an abortion in 2015, about nine women every day.
Women who have had to travel abroad to access a termination because their much-wanted baby had a fatal foetal abnormality have shared their heartbreaking stories. As have women in the same situation who chose to carry their child to full term.
Some of the latter’s children have defied the odds and lived – be it for minutes, weeks or years.
A number of TDs are in favour of allowing for terminations in cases of fatal foetal abnormalities, rape or incest. Some want full access to abortion to be available – in line with most other developed countries. Others want the situation to remain as is, believing the 2013 act was a step too far.
The upcoming citizens’ assembly on the topic is seen by some as the government further kicking the can down the road, but will at least allow for further debate.
The issue is on the agenda and it’s not going away. No amount of distractions or excuses will change that.
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‘Look do you want the brown envelope or not?’
the length of a piece of string is double the distance from halfway to the end.
Somehow restraining from cutting out their slovenly forked tongues helps too….allegedly!!
Why not just name and shame them? Those who have not answered clearly want to sit on the fence. Fine But let us know who they are.
Thats in the other article Hot.
I suppose if we had better qualified and better educated politicians, they’d be better able to answer the questions as well as run the country better. What we’ve currently got is a shower of amateurs.
And if clueless Kenny and the tanaiste is allowed to get away with not answering questions (and he has some serious questions to answer), the rest of the herd will think they can do the same. It’s very bad form considering the good money they’re paying themselves.
Just shows how out of touch they really are. In any case it doesn’t matter what their stance is on it, they are there to represent the people and the overwhelming majority want it repealed. We can do it now and show that we’re a progressive country or wait 10-15 years when all the older religious nuts die off and TDs won’t be afraid to offend any of their constituents. I’d rather option 1.
Not true. Support for a referendum and indeed repealing the 8th is down
Some 56pc of voters say they want to go to the polls over the issue – down from 66pc in June last year.
The majority don’t want abortion on demand for a range of reasons . Less than 30% support that.
Bet you two sheep stations you are wrong.
Jesus Greg, that’s an almighty slant you’ve put on the figures. Support for a referendum is “down”? How is that relevant in any way? The majority of the country want to vote on the issue.
Thus, we vote on the issue. There should be no equivocation or faffing around here. We need a referendum because the people want it. The figures you gave even showed that.
Massively overpaid with taxpayer funded offices and staff but none of them can reply to an email or answer the phone?? Sack them for incompetence and inability to do the job
Hang on, during the last election hustings, there was a survey of election issues being asked at the door. “Abortion” represented only 2%. Now, that wasn’t specifically that 2% demanded repeal of the 8th amendment either, and anecdotally, the majority of those raising abortion at the door were seeking its protection.
At the end of the day, there are TDs who are already outspoken in terms of their stance regarding abortion… But be mindful that of the government-ready parties of the Left (i.e. Labour or the Greens – AAA and SF are a while away from being in government get) who were outspoken against the 8th amendment, Labour were obliterated. Indeed, the most outspoken pro-abortion Fine Gael TDs were ousted too. No wonder, perhaps, TDs are shying away from declaring a stance.
Sure, it’s obviously a HUGE issue for The Journal, and for some journos and hacks in The Indo and IT, but it’s not front and centre for many others.
Brian – let’s put it to a proper vote then, a referendum. I can see no reason why you would be against this, except you know you are going to lose.
There are some laws that just shouldn’t be put to a vote at all and the murder of the innocent is one of them. It doesn’t mean that just because a majority want abortion and a change in law mean it is a morally right law.
What we do need to do is bring in legislation to prevent so called journalists and sites like the journal from pretending to present themselves as a news site when in fact they’re a liberal blog with an agenda.
The news used to be about representing both sides but these days they shed more light and articles on the abortion than they do the pro life side. This is wrong and if you wanna bring in a new law lets start with that as I’m tired of not seeing a balanced report of the issue that journalism is supposed to do.
No one asked me about ‘election issues’ at the door. The “only” TD that knocked at my door was Alan Farrell. I had to bring it up with him and he said, Fine Gael will never support abortion of demand. So, in a nutshell, it does not matter what the people want the party will not support public wishes if those wishes do not match the party.
There should be an open referendum not a referendum with conditions, otherwise, for one the debate will remain open and two it will be a biassed based referendum. However biassed viewpoints seem to be the flavour of politics anyway, and what the people want is never really what “new politics” is about.
Shephen, Not a single person thinks the journal is balanced with their reporting on a range of topics. I have yet to meet one person who believes the journal is a ” balanced news service”.
Having said that, its a private company unlike RTE, so they can do what they want as have no public service remit.
It is a tabloid on-line. Having said that I think it is time to repeal the 8th.
RTE is not unbiased the BBC is not unbiased no media outlet is unbiased. Mainstream reports what the powers to be ‘want’ you to believe so, in many ways, mainstream is about as biassed a viewpoint as you can find.
Thank you Greg, but Private or not I’d like to see that change and some sort of legislation brought in to prevent any company public or private from presenting itself as a journalistic news outlet when it doesn’t adhere to true journalism. Such kind of thing needs to be regulated and rules developed that are adhered to. This goes for the IT, INDEPENDENT and other papers and sites out there. They’re all at it. The news media have now become the liberal platform for liberals to pursue an agenda and effectively ideologically colonise the island we live on with their vile agenda. It needs to change.
Biassed viewpoint there much – ironic is what irony does.
The reason we don’t want a referendum, is not because we think we will lose will lose (we know we will win, especially if it was put to a simple deletion)it is because it is wrong to put the removal of ANYONES Constitutional rights to a popular vote. I would be against any of your Constitutional rights being put to a referendum. and it would have nothing to do with my guess on whether it would be carried or not.
Pádraig, put the tinfoil hat away.
Strangely, WHO data shows that abortion rates tend to DECLINE in countries/regions where safe and legal practices are put in place, but that piece of factual data doesn’t suit the agenda of the professional outragists, so it doesn’t get rolled out much…
I always wonder if abortion is murder as you say shouldn’t we then stage an invasion against England for Genocide against Irish children. They knowingly allow the murder of millions of innocent (Not if you catholic btw in which case they are smeared with original sin and are heading to hell for sure) babies
Shouldn’t we prevent Irish women from committing murder abroad?
The logic makes no sense but it all boils down to one single thing is it a baby or is it just a pile of cells?
It has the potential to be a baby yes, but so does aluminium it has the potential to become a coke can doesn’t mean it is one.
Try and venture outside of that closed mind Tadhg, who knows you may even learn something.
Its rare me and Padraig agree but on this issue i think the sopcialist mantra rings true !
#Repeal the 8th
Wow Stephen that’s some very odd opinions there. If we gave you the keys of the kingdom free speech would be a distant memory. It’s opinions like yours that means when our women are at the lowest point of their life we export the problem to uk.
Thankfully extremist like yourself are not the norm in ireland anymore.
You were always the sensible one. Do you still have a busload of children?
Since when has news been about reporting both sides? Papers and journalists always have an agenda and bias, whether conscious or not. How many articles have you seen in the Indo supporting Sinn Fein? How many articles in the Telegraph do you see supporting Corbyn? Donald Trump is getting vilified from all corners (rightly, in my opinion). So where is this utopia of news reporting you’re on about?
If you’re so concerned, go start an online Irish news source as an alternative to this liberal blog and I’m sure you’ll gain a readership. Breda O’Brien would be delighted to be editor, I’m sure.
You can’t go whinging to the BAI over “balance” in the Journal. If that was permitted, I’d be sending in regular complaints about Brendan O’Regan’s unbalanced twaddle.
Maria is the “We” god’s children? just so we’re clear? I want to repeal this law that clearly hates women and poor people and the non religious. Thats all the pope’s cult seems to ever do.
Raping kids,
the pope “only two percent are rapist” the man is should be shunned everywhere.
“as i just don’t understand why you would refer to yourself using what has been and continues to be used as a derogatory term”
Yes because THAT’S the more pressing issue!!
In fact, 9 journalists a day have to go to England in order to get proper balance because the government won’t legislate for it!!
I hope you go to the Catholic Voice or Alive and send them in letters to ask for balance.
If not then you are a KIND of hypocrite!
And finally, what you are asking for there is not balance, it’s neutrality.
They provided balance by talking about the people who want to keep the 8th Amendment as it is!
The people decide. Referendum. That’s democracy. Problem is. Democracy when it suits…
Only ask when election time comes around .. Might not be a truthful answer but just remember the governments motto is ” ask no questions , and you’ll be told no lies “
Wasn’t the 8th protected from Europe during one of your many rerun referendums? Given that so many people don’t want it, why was that?
No, the EU says Ireland is in contradiction of human rights and has been warning a ‘forcing of the issue’
Lisbon I was impinged on by people bringing up a bunch of other issues that might be affected, including abortion. The government got assurances that it and those other things would not be affected, hence Lisbon II.
Would you be prepared to take a 25% cut in salary and forego expenses and other perks for the good of the country?
Hay is that a yeti over there
Maybe the TDs are sick and tired of the same few people asking the same question over and over. Maybe they want to be let do their job. Can we please have one day without an article on this? There are other things to be reporting on and asking TDs about.
Maybe if the TD’s replied to the questions being asked with a simple definitive answer instead of rhetoric and waffle the questions wouldn’t come up over and over again… They’re being paid enough to answer a valid question with a simple yes or no, yet as stated in the article one TD in particular spent minutes explaining why he hadn’t got the time to answer when it would have been quicker for the plank to simple answer!
Maybe there are just ‘too many’ gospel singers, Sunday doctrine installers and fairy tale pundits within the TD ranks that, is far more plausible.
“bible bashers” is my fav or is it “The Good News bashers” in this country?
It doesn’t matter how many responded the fact is that only just over quarter of TDs expressed support for the repeal of the 8th. The simple fact is that there is not the support for the removal of the 8th that Amnesty and other lobby groups are claiming. An exit poll revealed that abortion was an issue for only 2% of the people. I canvased at the last election and nobody would have known my views on the issue. Nobody raised the removal of the 8th with me yet a number raised the issue of its retention.
And only 10% expressed a desire to keep it. If you will read the numbers like that, they make your position very weak.
Stephen, the opinion of the members of parliament should be irrelevant. They are there to represent their constituency, not themselves.
A more apt question would be. What the electorate can do to legally oust the lying bstrds weve just elected.
agendas agendas agendas… Who wants to talk about anything serious when the kids are enjoying choc ices at seaside towns during the sizzling weather?
three pro abortion articles in one day on the Journal, that has to be a new record. Of all the issues affecting people in the country, this is seriously at the bottom of the list and only affects a very small minority of people, yet the journal posts these articles daily.
LOL. Let me guess your religion from how compassionate you are..Christian?
im an athiest. Havent been to a church except for weddings and funerals. But i have a brain and I capable of reasoned thought which might fall outside of popular opinion. Whats your excuse?
“How many roads must a man walk down before you can call him a man?”
None, he is already called a man in the question.
How many roads must a BOY walk down before you can call him a man? Now that’s a question!
They need to answer and address the following – If you saw the TV3 documentary ‘Firetrap Homes’ you should view the following documentary, which you will see for yourself the fraudulent certification and criminality that has gone on and continues to do so within the Irish construction industry, aided and abetted by state authorities. Here is the link to the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LHGwwlC8rs
Tell him that you will give him NO 1 vote !
It’s amazing how many journalist’s hear conversations their not supposed to hear.
If we had better interviewers with enough bottle not to let go until the question is answered might be one answer.
Orla @journal
We have 3 abortion threads running since this morning. This topic stokes controversy but 3 threads in one morning is excessive.
Regardless of anyone’s view on this topic I believe most would believe it is way over the top.
Frankly, it’s lazy.
LOL
yeah it’s like these articles get a huge readership and LOADS of comments.
WHO would want THAT?!!?
‘How do you get a TD to answer a question?’
Answer:
Don’t ask him/her an ideologically loaded one.
Isn’t that why they got into politics in the first place?
Even if you ask a politician a straightforward question, it’s hard to get an answer out of them. Just watch the carry-on in the Dáil whenever a question about infrastructure, the economy, employment, housing or anything else comes up. It’s either a long-winded non answer or a lie.
They are only human Jason, fallen ppl god bless them.
God bless us all.
You say it’s so divisive and ‘in a politicians world’, but the thing is who really gives a damn about irish politicians when of all issues, right to choice in abortion is not a big deal even for politicians in most civilised Western countries. Hilarious that the USA has the death penalty and is deeply divided, yet they have choice readily there in (most) states
Sorry to burst your bubble but abortion tends to be very divisive in most places it’s introduced. True it’s not a big deal for some politicians but it is for many.
However, that’s neither here nor there.
I would also challenge that these countries may not be deemed civilised ‘because’ they have abortion.
The USA for example would only pass the civilised test by their own determining criteria.
How about The British Empire Tom?
is pakistan civilised because they don’t have abortion?
Certain aspects of life in Pakistan would be civilised, others not.
Does that answer your question?
So what do you think britian and USA are not civilised…murdering children, please tell me you have boycotted said countries in an attempted to be serious? or are you a la carte?
No I haven’t boycotted them and I’m not a la carte.
I never claimed to be Mahatma Gandhi.
I’m merely a citizen trying to point out wrong where I see it.
Right, well thank your holy trinity that the law is on your side, then curse him because the law can and will be changed. And please point you finger occasionally to the bible too. Thank’s, your outstanding.
What are you talking about?
The real question of our time is when/if you get an answer to a question from a TD, how do you get them to keep to their answer. I put it to you that this is a far more relevant question then how to get a hollow answer in the first place.
Here’s my advice; Don’t ask the question. Only those with a PHD in the subject will be worth listening to.
a PHD in abortion?
no, in biology, but you knew this. Biology minus religion faith, simple stuff really.
you can have the faith internally, compartmented somehow for all our sake.
its not a religious issue. its a morality issue. dont conflate the two. Some of the greatest philosophers were athiests.
Have you actually looked at the numbers, the percentage that are unwanted pregancies vs rape/abnormality, have you seen an actual 18-19 week abortion performed? Do you know what an abortion entails? Have you ever been to an ultra scan of a 15,16,17+ week old baby ? Im going to guess your answer is no to all of the above and you simply instead subscribe to the “its popular, i like popular” method of thinking.
This is not a womans issue, this is a morality issue. It affects women, men and children.
Two transsexuals can legally get married in Ireland. Correct?
We all agree yes because the law has removed the reference to gender in marriage.
Their marriage will be as valid in the eyes of the law as a man and woman.
Great.
However, that equality is not just a noble gesture.
That equality allows those two married chicks with dicks to be recognised as equally entitled to adopt as the man and woman.
That’s an extreme case but let anybody tell me why it can’t happen?
I think for most people who vited yes, that was not what they voted fir but that is the reality.
You don’t get justice. You get the law.
If we repeal the 8th we remove any restriction on abortion.
Will it lead to widespread abortion? I don’t know but it will remove any restriction to it.
You vote as you will but be prepared to accept the consequences
Yea.. I can see it now.. There’ll be mass drive by abortions by Dublin inner city gangs, you will be able to have a pizza, large coke, garlic bread and an abortion through justeat. Ie from the local chipper delivered to your door within 30 minites or your embryo back guaranteed and Tom at the bar will serve you a pint of Guinness, and a white wine spritzer with an RU486 for the missus… From start to finish your ‘point’ makes very little sense and your argument is at best a thinly veiled jibe at same sex marraige and at worse utter nonsense.
Dubabroad
You remind me of Michael O’Leary when asked about zero hour contracts. He goes off at a tangent with bizarre humour whilst avoiding answering the question.
No back to the serious stuff.
We are not that culturally different from the UK. If we repeal the 8th we remove any impediment to abortion clinics here and abortion on demand.
Will any or many of these clinics open?
I have no idea. However they can.
Now would you like to engage with the argument or do you wish to continue going off at a tangent talking whilst avoiding the question?
Your choice.
Now.
Can you tell me also any legal impediment to two transsexuals adopting?
Simple question.
What have you got against trans people adopting?
Because it ain’t normal.
Every child should be brought up by their mother and father where possible.
Failing that, adoptive mum and dad.
Transgender is not a genital disorder but a mental disorder. Of that I’m quite convinced.
Your a year too late Tom, stop peddalling hate.
A no ones ask you how you feel about trans ppl,
B no one cares about how you feel about trans ppl, discuss it with your church and you can make try and out breed the secular, and have a world fit for the return of the king of kings, lord of lords, it’ll be so good he/she/it would leave heaven, I’m sure of it.
Tom – I would rather children brought up by two loving open minded transsexuals than you. If there is anyone on here that is not normal, it is clearly you.
“Because it ain’t normal”
And what’s normal?
many successful people have been brought up by a lone parent and many serial killers have been brought up by their mother and father!
This idea that there is only ONE way to bring up a child is stupid!
Just because it’s not something to EVER enter your mind doesn’t make it any less valid!
Can we please stop referring to them as ‘pro-life’ and instead call them what they really are, ‘anti-choice’
But we have no problem with choice.
Choose your job, spouse, religion if any, clothes to wear etc.
We are not anti choice just anti abortion.
So why don’t we call the pro choice lobby what they really are which is pro abortion.
Pro choice tells you nothing if you don’t know the subject matter.
It’s totally non descriptive.
Do they do what the U.K. ones do here instead ???
https://www.rt.com/uk/344959-belfast-abuse-mi5-inquiry/
have your say