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EVERY EVENING, TheJournal.ie brings you a round-up of all the day’s main news, as well as the bits and pieces you may have missed along the way.
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Having someone who’s on your side act as the mediator is pretty biased. Israel couldn’t give two fecks what the world thinks of it as long as it’s safe
If you were one of them would you prefer it if your government put you at risk to keep up appearances?
Sorry, I don’t mean to sound flippant, but its very hard for us living relatively comfortable safe lives in Ireland to put ourselves into the Israeli mindset where they feel under siege and surrounded by enemies who want rid of them…
Avina its a bit more complex than that. Western media has led us to believe that Israel is under constant threat. If you dig deeper you will find that isreal are behind most of the warmongering. They constantly shoot down peace talks and stumble evert advance to move forward. Even now they have ruled out every deal in Geneva with the p-5 + 1 on Iran, even if they go back to the stone age with their technology Israel just want them to be attacked and occupied by their allies. When Palestine joined the UN council Israel and the US withdrew from the UNESCO in protest and announced demolition on Palestine homes to build over 10k settlements. If isreal wanted peace they would join the plan to rid their nuclear and chemical mutations and stop causing friction in every peace talk and negotiation that takes place.
I agree its very complex but I think you missed my point.
Yes, Israel is belligerent. Yes, Israel is provocative. Yes, Israel is difficult to negotiate with. But, just like our own, their national psyche didn’t just appear out of thin air. It’s the collective product of several hundred years of persecution coupled with the situation they now find themselves in.
Leaving aside the argument of whether they should or shouldn’t be there, its hard to disagree with the fact that they’re currently surrounded by sworn enemies who would like nothing more than to drive them out of the middle east forever if they had the capability to do so.
Unless someone has been immersed in and absorbed that collective experience over generations its hard to know how it would feel and how it would influence your thoughts and actions.
I’m not trying to excuse Israel’s behaviour btw – I agree it’s reprehensible at times – but I am trying to understand it, and the roots of their national consciousness which makes them behave the way they do.
“its very hard for us living relatively comfortable safe lives in Ireland to put ourselves into the Israeli mindset ”
Oh, come off it. Israelis live perfectly safe and comfortable lives.
Yes Petr – because they have a strong military (and the bomb as the ultimate deterrent). Without that it would be a very different story for them.
That’s my point really – that’s a lesson they have had to learn the hard way, that military weakness leaves your people vulnerable to massacre and genocide.
Israel will pretend to be interested in talks to buy time while it continues its plantation of Gaza. Eventually it Will say that its impossible to give it back as there are too many Israelis living there.
Very informative and balanced article – well done Michelle.
Unfortunately, these peace talks will mean nothing, as usual, because Isreal has no interest in them, will not abide by any deal and the minute it gets so bad for the Palestines after yet more of the same at the hands of the Israelis, and someone fights back, the Israeli government will go back to their standard response to every situation for for decades… Cry about what victims, commit a but more genocide in Palestine and keep allowing the Jewish Taliban to steal land and build their squatters settlement. Shame really… Personally if I could fix it I’d create a unified Palestine and and let the UN in to oversee it. And make Jerusalem the shared capital of both countries where the two governments use all the same buildings. Sensible and simple.. which is why Israel will make sure it never happens.
Jerusalem as the new Korean DMZ?
No not the Korean DMZ.. more a UN or Brussels of the middle east.. every religion in the region has a claim on Jerusalem in one form or another. All have committed hideous crimes in that city in the name of their religion at some point. By using Jerusalem as the shared capital, both sides can claim victory, if they are in the same buildings it less likely that there will be violence and more chance that they will get to know their similarities. A shared capital run as a partnership city will allow for equality of its inhabitants, security for its religious communities and increased tourism.
Imagine a pit bull terrier against a poodle and you get the picture.
Israel government are still a belligerent nasty lot. They have absolutely no respect for international law and they get away with it. You can’t spin that.
Good luck to Israel. Sick to the fcuking teeth hearing about those “poor Palestinians”.
Great to read a balanced article. Israel continues to conduct itself as a rogue state defying international law and acting with impunity as it has done since 1948. I have visited Palestine/Israel many times and come home heartbroken that a race of people who experienced such horrific trauma can inflict the same suffering on their neighbours. The 22-day military offensive in Gaza in 2008 resulted in the murder of 1,400 civilians, 300 of them children. Could you imagine the world reaction if that happened in any other part of the world? I laughed when I heard Obama talk about Syria crossing a red line in terms of the use of chemical weapons. No such lines existed when white phosphorous was used against civilians in Gaza. Miko Peled is an Israeli whose niece was murdered by a Palestinian suicide bomber in 1993. He is a peace activist and his book is excellent for anyone who wants to learn more about the situation.
Ah C’mon Seana. Even Hamas admitted that 3/4s of those killed were “combatants” & if Hamas/Hizbollah continue to use their own civilians as shields sadly they will continue to suffer.
What choice does Israel have when thousands of rockets are launched from Gaza into Israel?
“Ah C’mon Seana. Even Hamas admitted that 3/4s of those killed were “combatants”
Figures from b’tsleem – The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories
Palestinians killed in Gaza during operation cast lead: 1391 of whom 751 did not take part in hostilities
http://www.btselem.org/statistics/fatalities/during-cast-lead/by-date-of-event
Thomas that’s exactly what I thought a few years ago before I visited the country and read extensively about it. I accepted what I read in the majority of Irish and international media as being fact. I discovered this is very often not the case.
Peace talks. Israel: we want peace but this is our land and we will build on it. UN: that’s illegal but sure go ahead. Israel: Muslims are evil. UN: you know you might just be right.
This article tries hard, but cannot avoid repeating some of the clichés of Israeli propaganda. For example, “the incidence of these [suicide] attacks has dropped considerably since the construction in 2003 of a security barrier between Israel and the West Bank.” The Apartheid Wall is NOT constructed “between Israel and the West Bank” but, for some 85% of its length, INSIDE the West Bank. It was declared illegal by the International Court of Justice in July 2004. Palestinians can easily get across the wall at many points, so in fact the end of suicide bombing (it hasn’t merely “dropped considerably”) was a strategic decision by the Palestinians (and a correct one, in my view). To say that Israel “also contributes a large proportion of the West Bank’s water supply” is highly disingenuous: first it steals this water that comes from territory it illegally occupies, then it sells it back to the Palestinians at an elevated price. Meanwhile the illegal colonial settlers use vast quantities of water in swimming-pools and to spray their lawns. The whole article, however well-intentioned, gives the impression of two equal sides negotiating under the benign eyes of the USA – but the latter is wholly committed to seeing Israel fulfil its Zionist colonial project, so cannot under any circumstances be seen as an honest broker.
Indeed. It is also worth noting that the Oslo Accords were a massive fraud insofar as there was never any intention on the Israeli side that a Palestinian state would emerge. That’s why there’s no mention of a Palestinian state in the Declaration of Principles or in any of the subsequent Accords.
Shimon Peres, foreign Minister at the time of the Accords and now Israeli president, was very straightforward about this in his memoir:
“Israel’s declared position was that it opposed the creation of an independent Palestinian state”
Israel still does oppose Palestinian statehood, whatever the rhetoric.
Although I’d love nothing more than to see a lasting peace between the two sides, can we really realistically take the talks seriously whilst the illegal settlement continues?
To use an analogy, burglars are stealing the contents of your home. Negotiations to get your stuff back involves you agreeing to not call the Gardai, however the guys robbing your stuff refuse to stop loading up the lorry outside and are not pressured to do so by the negotiator. Oh, and the person chairing the negotiations just happens to be the bloke who’s supplying and driving the lorry.
How serious would you believe they are about giving you your stuff back?
Abbas made a serious error not continuing to pursue full statehood at the UN. I hope I’m wrong.
Arafat was offered 95% of his demands and walked away. The Arabs want all of the area and always have.
Considering that the Arabs have lived there for centuries who could blame them?
Arafat refused to sign away the Palestinians right to their land in palestine. If he signed it, it would of been against the wishes of his people. The same way the nationalist refuse to leave their land and give it to the unionists…
But the israelis are loosing the support of some of their own people with their attitude and the way they carry on.
Two things wrong with this: first, Arafat wasn’t “offered 95% of his demands”, and second, Arafat didn’t “walk away”. It was the Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak who discontinued the talks at Taba, despite Arafat’s protestations.
OOoops , he was ‘only’ offered 92% but would have signed his own death warrant had he accepted and the same goes for whoever is running the place now.
Funny how the UN and EU won’t do anything about their rules being broken! Full Israeli withdrawal is the answer
I t would have been easier to just write that they mean the PA get to still rake in their corrupt payments, while Zion slaughters the innocent and continues to steal their land and resources. Zion will not stop until every Palestinian has either left or been killed
If the Israeli,s believe in the bible the conflict will never end ,so it will never end the Palestinians,s are to radical to deal with ,at least some of them ,it’s hard to come down on a agreement with either side ,they are both kind of right
Many omissions in this article. To list just one, the major issue with Jerusalem is not the religious sites, but the removal of Palestinians from their homes, through home demolitions and eviction orders, based purely on Israel’s wish to ‘clean’ the area of any non-Jews.
Yes. What is happening in neighbourhoods like Sheikh Jarrah should be an international scandal, but is hardly mentioned .
Even the term peace talks is misleading, there can be no peace because there is no war. There is an occupation and colonisation of a defenceless third world country by a nuclear armed regional superpower armed and protected by the worlds only remaining super power. This ‘conflict’ will end when Israel has driven out all but the few Arabs it wants for cheap labour or when the holocaust guilt of Europe and the US runs out and Israel is forced by sanctions and pressure to pull out of the West Bank and Gaza .
Moo!
Also where is the western media highlighting the fact that Zion is illegally refusing to allow African asylum-seekers claim asylum? They have paid Chad and CAR to send them there instead. Some pretty good videos on Youtube of just how racist and evil Zion is
Does aunty simmonite work for Mossad methinks or some pro Zionist agenda?
On May 4, 1948, the Arab Legion attacked Kfar Etzion. The defenders drove them back, but the Legion returned a week later. After two days, the ill-equipped and outnumbered settlers were overwhelmed. Many defenders were massacred after they had surrendered.6 This was prior to the invasion by the regular Arab armies that followed Israel’s declaration of independence.
The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution. On February 16, 1948, the Commission reported to the Security Council:
“Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.”
Security Council Official Records, Special Supplement, (1948), p. 20.
The last two lines are from the UNSC, the main paragraph is plagarised zionist propaganda copy+pasted in forums all over the web.
The UN blamed the Arabs for the violence. The UN Palestine Commission was never permitted by the Arabs or British to go to Palestine to implement the resolution. On February 16, 1948, the Commission reported to the Security Council:
“Powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein.”
Security Council Official Records, Special Supplement, (1948), p. 20
Link please
The UN, in the 1947 two-state partition resolution, called for creation of a “Jewish state” and an “Arab state.” There were no Palestinians at the time.During Israel’s War of Independence in 1948, Israel had to defend itself against half a dozen Arab armies that attacked the nascenet Jewish state and the Arabs told their people to leave as they would destroy Israel in a day or two and that the Arabs could have all the land, they lied.
The reason there was no Palestinian people was because the state of Palestine had not been recognised – and all efforts to have it recognised have been vetoed by the “mediator” in these talks ever since.
The area is and was called Palestine, since long before any of it was called Israel. The people who are from there are not Jordanian, Syrian, Lebanese – they are from the area generally referred to as Palestine, so while “Palestinians” is by no means an official name – the people do exist..
I know I explained this to you already, but still you proceed to copy and paste this stuff in an effort to delegitimise the Arab (Palestinian) people’s claim on the Arab state that was supposed to be formed alongside Israel.
See, this is what causes people to make accusations of you being one of the paid trolls, I’m not saying you are, but it appears you have all of these little things clip boarded to be pasted on every article about Israel / Palestine.. Surely you can see why the notion enters people’s minds?
@ Aunty. If you were claiming there were no palestinians in the 1940s are you also claiming there was no palestine?
A reminder to the Hizbullah fans here at the Journal.Or are they employees? Anyway
The Palestinian Authority has a President who is now serving the 8th year of a 4 year term, and its legislative body has not been in session for years since Hamas won an easy victory in the last elections. The Palestinian Authority is broke, relying almost totally on foreign money, mainly from the United States and the Europeans, to pay an enormous public work force. Corruption still abounds, including the lining of the pockets of the PA President’s family.
Sept 13th a reminder of just what a little sleeveen Arafat was
Twenty years ago today, Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat signed the initial Oslo agreements in a ceremony on the White House lawn that captured the world’s attention and seemed to many the start of genuine peace between Israel and the Palestinians.
Later that day, on Jordanian television, Arafat explained to his Palestinian constituency and the broader Arab world that they should understand Oslo in the context of the Palestinian National Council’s 1974 decision. This was a reference to the so-called Plan of Phases, according to which the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) would acquire whatever territory it could by negotiations, then use that land as a base for pursuing Israel’s annihilation.
The same oslo accords your ‘sleveen’ hero Netenyahu admitted to sabotaging on video?
Palestinian Authority: Peace talks only for our strategic benefit as per Islamic historical example. We will use any peace agreement to regroup to destroy Israel completely at a time of our choosing. RABBI DR. BERNHARD ROSENBERG
Are you saying this or are you attributing it to the Palestinian Authority? And if so, could you please provide a link.
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