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Updated 22.45
THE DUBLIN WEB Summit, or The Summit as it’s now known, is hiring 40 new staff ahead of its November event but it’s not giving equal credit to degrees from different third-level institutions.
The Summit says that, for people who have graduated since 2010, they will only consider applicants who achieved 1st class honours degrees from UCD, UCC, NUIG, DCU, UL or NUI Maynooth.
Graduates at Trinity College Dublin however will be considered if they achieved the lower 2.1 grade.
Furthermore, for graduates of Institutes of Technology who achieved a BA, BSc or similar, they are required to have gone on to also secure a Masters to be considered.
Founder and CEO of The Summit Paddy Cosgrave says that they have been required to implement the requirements because they are seeking “high-quality graduates” and receive too many applications:
For every position we advertise at a graduate level, we get hundreds and hundreds of applications. It’s been extremely difficult as our head of recruitment to try to reduce 400 CVs down to 10 to call for interview.
Cosgrave also sits on the board of the Higher Education Authority and founded the Undergraduate Awards.
The Summit’s website lists a number of past speakers including the founder of Twitter Jack Dorsey who dropped out of university and Tumblr founder David Karp who never graduated from high school.
The Summit was founded in 2010 and has become one of the most in influential gatherings on the international tech landscape with tickets selling out months in advance. Tickets for November’s event will first become available later this month.
The organisers are to next week hold their their first major US conference, Collision, in Las Vegas.
The more than 40 positions available include jobs in data science, iOS engineering and sales.
Originally posted 07.05
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Mark Zuckerberg & Bill Gates need not apply
Degrees from the 3 best ITs, Cork, Dublin & Waterford are as good as if not often better than “the establishment universities” & a lot more practical.
Good old fashioned elitism from Paddy Cosgrave & his chums.
It’s weird that it’s an IT event and he’s excluding graduates from the ITs
Thing is I’m not so sure it’s an “IT” event .. from the perspective of an IT professional myself it seems to be more of an elitist techno-hipster parade. Like, I think it does garner a certain critical mass of professional “digital creatives” but as far as I could make out, from the coverage of last years event it seemed to be more about promoting Irish tourism, food exports, Dublin pubs etc … all good in my opinion, but I wouldn’t describe it with the broader “IT” term …
But then again, as an IT professional maybe my pedantry is showing …
Er, you know IT stands for different things, right??
The I.T. reffered to in the article is ‘Information Technology’ while the educational centers are called X Institute of Technology. Totally different.
It’s not that weird considering IT stands for information technology as well as institute of technology. So it’s really not that weird is it.
In fairness, if you were as smart as Zuckerburg, Jobs, Gates et al, you wouldn’t be applying for an intern position at a business and technology conference regardless of your credentials.
Not sure they are offering internships are they. And they are probably more lucky to be in the right place at the tight time than smart
He does come accross as a bit of a tit, doesnt he?
It is really annoying, as a Trinity graduate to constantly be the subject of what can only be described as inverse snobbery. It’s OK for people here and from “less highly ranked institutions” to sit and question your qualifications and say that theirs are better.
Oh and you know, TCD only THINKS it’s good, and TCD don’t have fun at all, and they’re all hipsters (insert tired insult here) and now by my accounts there are at least 3 ITs in the country better than it. NO. If I sat here and slandered your colleges I’d be slaughtered and called a snob. But sure, the opposite is totally legitimate.
Having just achieved an amazing scholarship I DEFINITELY can thank TCD for both it’s international reputation and teaching. It was certainly a major factor in my appointment.
@ThomasFrancisMeagher You say the ITs are as good if not better than the universities. I’m not gonna hit back with an “oh no, they’re not” but what facts or stats do you have to substantiate your comments?
There are a lot of companies that do focus solely on the universities – not just in Ireland. I’m not saying that’s right or anything but are they all wrong?
TBH this whole thing seem to be little more than a marketing ploy – free advertising.
Now you predictable people. If I had substituted TCD with sat WIT, what do you want to bet I’d have over a hundred green arrows? I do.
You IT people need a dose of reality. This place is just an echo chamber for your incorrect impressions of the quality of certain Unis. Personally, all this poll serves as is a general indicator where people went to college. IT or Uni. If anyone wants to know the general reader education graphic of the journal. Please refer to the heroic nature of the IT grads and the lack of social skills, intelligence and technical ability referred to throughout the comments.
Of the Uni grads
Jealously Mary. That’s all it is
Yes, definitely should. I definitely agree that not everyone getting 500+ points is a genius or that anyone getting getting less is conclusively a fool but I think it would be silly to suggest there is absolutely NO correlation what-so-ever between LC points and intelligence. I mean, come on. Just because it doesn’t explicitly show you are intelligent, it’s not useless. So, if there are 2 courses in 2 institutions, one 520 and one 250 points with equal numbers of available places, if I was the Professor or Co-ordinator why WOULDN’T I challenge my (at least seeming and assumed) high achieving students as best as possible? It’s clearly inaccurate to presume therefore all degrees in same courses could be equal as that would suggest the intelligence of all students in a level 8 course is somehow set to default when they enter. Obviously not.
Secondly, the percentage of students achieving a 1.1 is fairly universal in various courses in various institutions (around 10%) so if 10 percent of the 520 group achieve a first and the same percentage in the 250 course achieve a first, is the course as difficult. That is clearly very unlikely. Statistically, very unlikely. That completely implies people attain some spontaneously occurring intelligence and motivation upon entering the level 8 course.
But of course, those who believe there is no intelligence required for the LC will tell me my whole argument is wrong.
First, they actually started companies and aren’t looking for employment.
Second, I’m sure if they were “off the scale” at any IT they’d still get a job.
Third, they did both get in to Harvard. I’m sure they’re priorities were as skewed as the irish people choosing NUIG, TCD, UCD or UCC.
Intelligent people will seek out other intelligent people from a young age.
Mary let me tell you something: education has nothing at all to do with intelligence. Studying more for an exam than the next person doesn’t mean you are more intelligent it means that you will more than likely achieve an education in the higher points universities or colleges. The person who opted to enjoy their time when they were younger rather than studying chose their path. If a company want to hire someone for studying like mad when they were young over someone who probably has better social interaction well so be it.
Yeah, that MIGHT be a useful observation if in addition to natural intelligence you didn’t need an acquired skill set to do a job ultimately. And I strongly believe skill sets and critical thinking are superior in certain Irish universities.
Here’s a little anecdote for ya. For my leaving cert I took honours physics, chemistry and biology amongst the usual subjects and others could verify my study consisted of the hours proceeding the exam. Long story short, I got in to TCD. Without the money and grinds label people love to assign to people who got in to TCD. So I went to college in what was an extremely tough course and once in 2nd year, 101 of 234 students failed one of around 15, 1.5 hour exams on VERY diverse areas of science you have to take in TCD meaning they had to take repeats. It is EXTREMELY tough and an intellectual marathon and every exam requires scientific essays. In third year TCD if you fail one exam, you are gone. No repeats. Nowhere else has that pressure. So eventually my finals arrived, I graduated top 5. Then I finished college and applied (somewhat ambitiously) for a generous, highly competitive PhD in the UK in you guessed it, another great institution. My point is, intelligent people don’t actually have to do all the cramming and grinds all of you refer to. They just are. And then they appear in TCD and UCD etc where I met them. Every intelligent person I know, myself included know that it is just no fun being a big fish in a small pond. And even if TCD students were just extremely motivated; a very famous experiment on German children demonstrated that that will surpass those who are simply intelligent anyway. And I, for the record, would still want those immensely motivated individuals.
Education does not define intelligence, but intelligence seeks out ultimate challenges and wants to better itself and that happens to occur within education.
Having intelligence but being uneducated or not to the fullest is like the old question “If a tree falls in a forest and no-one hears it, does it make a sound?” Technically no, for what is it’s relevance except to the beholder. And it is my opinion that since many gifted children need more challenging work to refrain from boredom, teenagers in education need the same. And young adults in research. And adults in a job.
See people hate this version of intelligent because they think its a useless, sci-fi construct. Well it isn’t. They think their “streets smarts” are so superior to my “technical jargon” and find the kind of intelligence so common place in universities highly unpalatable. As if their witty joke in the pub or interesting piece of DIY was a neat and clinical way to demonstrate their smarts. Now, if you do not like my and my friends manifestation of intelligence what would you like me to demonstrate? My perfect pitch, my all-Ireland sport medals, speak Spanish to you, partake in a quiz? Done.
I have met some incredible intelligence in my time in TCD and I do not appreciate it being denounced and seemed unimportant. Not everybody can get a medal on sports day. Its just the way life is.
Let the red arrows fly.
And this…http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/39/5/1362.long
Mary what the hell is all this?! do you think people have time to be reading your 1000 jibber words comments?! jog on
Oh I’m sorry, did I hit the “Oblige to read” button on my comments? Oops.
Sincere apologies.
Don’t worry I didn’t read them, but it took an annoying amount of time to actually scroll down past them to get to the interesting comments
Riiight, well then I am gonna give you polite advice to invest in a laptop with a scroll bar. They’re a God send, honestly.
Are your comments long and boring from a laptop screen iswell?
And how do you know they aren’t interesting if you didn’t read them?
Long by comparison, admittedly. Boring is probably largely subjective, though maybe the guy I was actually responding to has more interest than you, who’s to say? Either way, he isn’t obliged to read either.
I felt a little sorry for you if you were actually looking at my comments on a smart phone, but since you’re actually on a laptop…
Seriously. Scroll down.
tl;dr – but in any case your tree in the woods metaphor has been made irrelevant by modern technology, since sound is now understood as a series of compression waves which may be captured and replayed later – so where recorded sound of said tree falling is later heard by somebody then yes it will be heard. Conclusively. That’s the kind of lateral thinking that the technology industry is based on, and precisely the kind that you won’t get from scholastic, “classical” training, and rote learning.
Poor Mary, are you fuming someone someone slagged you off?
Aha, and I think you’re being perhaps a bit literal. If you understand that the undertone of the entire tree dilemma is “when is something considered relevant?” then you understand that untrained intelligence is about as useful as a picture of air. It’s just locked in someone’s head in today’s world of degrees.
By the way, that philosophical notion was proposed by George Berkeley. I for one am not so self assured as to upset the meaning of a brilliant thought in metaphysics when you clearly know what it means.
If they invent a way to extract intelligence from someone with technology the way technology can now hear then you might have had a point.
Emm… no? I like verbal sparring.
I tend not to get very wound up by someone’s subjective opinion.
Phil, just because someone has achieved high grades does not mean they have poor social skills. The top people tend to have both.
Well actually the funny thing is, I actually wasn’t trying to be a troll and though I so strongly disagreed with Phil’s point, may have accidentally fallen in to that category! This is the first topic I’ve ever posted on because I believe all we ever hear is “ITs are just as good etc. etc.” and while I think it’s absolutely great that anyone who wants to educate and further themselves at any level on any topic is brilliant and that’s really admirable, that still doesn’t mean we’re all the same. Caertain ITs being perceived as being as difficult as certain Uni’s is wrong and has practical implications, like needing to achieve a 2.1 to enter medicine. I had friends who got 2.2s and if they had gone to an IT would have got their 2.1 for grad medicine. I am very average at tennis. I will always be average at tennis. No matter how much I train I will never be the best and I am just at peace with that. But when the same extends to intelligence people get SO defensive. I’ve met people SO much smarter than me and from universities far superior to me and I concede that entirely.
So sorry for appearing to troll though! Just playing Devil’s advocate.
My point was that many people can now perceive the tree falling, again and again, at removal in both time and space, without ever being nearby. I’d never say Berkeley is irrelevant, just like I’d never say Charles Babbage is irrelevant, but I wouldn’t use his analytical engine to do my taxes.
But my point is…
Technology can now “hear” sounds as well as the ear which has essentially extended the scope of how things can be “relevant”, so to speak.
BUT, there is no such piece of technology that can utilise someone’s untapped potential and turn it in to something bar them themselves. And these days (in most cases) education is the way to do that or you get crack pots like Chris Langan with high IQs but who is in essence, useless to progression.
Didn’t Babbage technically conceive the first calculator? If so, I’d say a lot of people use him when doing their taxes.
LoL! They’d be a long time doing them if so!
Yeah but not that they’re actually using his methods but that there would be no calculator otherwise.
The same way people might not be doing population genetics without Mendel or PCR without Watson and Crick.
God you’re literal!
God you’re a bore.
Why so my friend?
“Why so?” How so, I mean.
Ah here it’s all just sparring. It’s good for the head.
Well done Mary. Just to let you know, there is no apostrophe in its.
Haha. I can’t tell if you’re joking. You know “it’s” is the shortened version of “it is” right?
Used in a sentence: it is good for the head.
And of course one grammatical error (although there wasn’t one) would have strongly undermined my vital statistics. That’s what you’re thinking, yeah?
People who correct your grammer. Gotta love ‘em (them).
Irish snobbery at its best!
Mr. Paddy Cosgrave should not be on the board of the HEA for holding such biased views. No wonder the IT sector is crippled for funding when such views are openly held and expressed.
I think HEA is run by these institutions is it not? Or at least has significant contributions made .. hmm
So no equal opportunities there.
This isn’t an instance of disregarding ‘equal opportunities’. I’m certainly not saying being this brazenly callous about ITs is welcome but potential employees are always judged on the standard of their qualifications.
My problem with this is the obvious disjunction that exists between The Summit and what Paddy Cosgrave is saying. The Summit heralds start ups but there is no archetype start up employee, from what I can see.
Ultimately, start ups are entrepreneurs moving from project to project until they find the one that will be a success. The Indo featured Trustev’s CEO yesterday – butcher to billionaire, a perfect example.
By limiting his application process in this way, The Summit misses this start up spirit and lacks vision.
Rory Sutherland also had a good point: http://www.spectator.co.uk/life/the-wiki-man/8953111/why-im-hiring-graduates-with-thirds-this-year/
Good to see the summit’s organisers thinking outside the box, wonder how many delegates will drop out on account of this , seeing as lots of them have no masters degrees or degrees for that matter,
I’ve come across some people with masters in computer science who haven’t a breeze about practical skills in it. Any one can get a masters in a subject if they can read a book,study and tackle exams well. It’s a completely different thing to be talented at a job
very true, testing ones ability to retain new information and write it out for examiners to say “oh they studied it and remembered it”. putting words into action and be talented in applying it is the deciding factor. not writing theory and other scholars opinion. granted one needs to understand certain rules that work but application is key. it’s actually hilarious to see the competitive fighting for paper and grades, many couldn’t apply their knowledge when put to the test. you either have it or you don’t, talent is talent, you won’t find it in an exam paper.
Depends where you do your masters.
Total lack of imagination in terms of filtering applications, how’s about “you must have developed a web-site (attach link)” or “worked on an open source project” – this for an industry that is founded on egalitarianism & creativity – shows DWS for the elitist institution that it is!
Plenty of people with 1st class degrees honours from these colleges with no social skills or relevant experience and they prob wouldn’t have a clue about the complexities of event management. Ridiculous logic from this crowd.!!!
To be honest I’d say this is just a case of overworked techies getting in vanilla recruitment consultants to help with the workload, who then go ahead and roll out standard practice – perhaps an organisational brain-fart – I’m sure once the main guys catch up with it all it’ll probably be re-evaluated.
So have they run out of volunteers to abuse? Quite possibly the most up their own hole bunch you’ll see in a days walk
No spell check?? Stuff… Form…. Differen… And that’s the first paragraph
You just can’t get the stuff these days.
You know there’s a tips/corrections button?? Use it
My thoughts exactly Louise. There is too many errors in there to be using the Tip/Correction button.
They could do with using some punctuation, in the articles, as well!!
What about Queens University and Ulster university? Plenty of Irish were educated there during my time!
Attend a conference with nothing but Trinity grads…. I can’t imagine a more horrifying experience.
Wondering which of the 20 genders they fit into while pretending to comprehend latin and rubbing up against Topman’s finest impossibly skinny jeans, obscurely mothballed/patched up tux jackets and hair moose…. They’ve started walking round Dublin city with CANES now… Honest to god CANES! Faking a limp is the ultimate hipster statement du jour. It’s just so…pastiche.
God I think it’s rubbing off save me please!!!!!!
This is just bullshit. If you had recited the same cliched insults about gay people I’d have called you homophobic. Luckily this just makes you look like you have a major chip on your shoulder. Take it you got second choice on the CAO then.
Mary now you are not making any sense. What the commenter said above pasted the correct image if what’s happening. The cane walking geriatrics floating around with absolutely no ability to socially engage with their surroundings. A new type of educational system is required, maybe even an entrance exam into the top institutions followed by interviews and aptitude tests. That will get the best students from both walks of life, the socially challenged well educated and the naturally intelligent people who chose a path of life fulfilment over head in book bad eyesight childhood
I’m not making sense by calling bullshit on a stereotype?I graduated from TCD last year and only ever saw one guy with a cane… who had what looked to be a similar style to what was mentioned but the killing joke: seemed to have a degenerating genetic illness that required him to use a cane. So that one is possibly down-right offensive. That is the only cane I’ve ever seen in 5 years.
You perpetuate the head in a book thing a lot. This to me is just an attempt to justify your position as someone who sees past the bullshit of wasting your life away studying because, what is education in the grand scheme of things, right? It’s not like you’ll take it to your bed or it will keep you warm at night. We’re all just over-achievers with esteem issues sure. (I’ve literally been told that out of the blue)
I’ve news for you, you attend any uni you want if you are bona fide above average intelligence. And you can go to Oxford or Cambridge and STILL have evreything else. It’s not either or.
So non Irish graduates need not apply? I’m sure the equal status act might have something to say about that….
These companies now all sound elitist
This is hilarious!
The Collison Brothers, who made the rather clever and insanely lucrative Stripe, would be rejected by this process.
As would many many more. Didn’t Steve Jobs drop out after 6 months?
Can’t afford a masters so that’s me out so
don’t worry, you can’t buy talent, masters is not talent. the sheep follow the sheep, paying to get a job mindset. a good degree is sufficient, after that its up to you to apply it outside academia. i’d only do a masters if i wanted to teach and many do just that for that sole reason of job security and high pay at 3rd level – to teach. in fact, many failed practitioners go that route very early in their career, they’re not talented enough to last out in the real world for the high pay they wish for, its a backup plan. i know, i’ve seen their ‘real world’ work, not exactly talented, sufficient perhaps.
Pure irish degree snobbery. Graduates of IoTs are regularly discriminated against in job opportunities dispite having equivalent or better qualifications as those who went to irish “ivy league” universities.
It’s funny as well because it assumes that the person who went to an IT couldn’t have gone to a university. Circumstances dictate Alot of the time and not all can move away to college despite having the points and/or intelligence to back in up.
This article is littered with spelling, grammatical and capitalisation errors, is the irony intentional ?
That’s because thejournal.ie will hire writers out of any university. Clearly Ronan didn’t go to Trinity.
Are we pretending all qualifications are equal? I think the Simpson have covered this:
Vicki [Lisa’s dance teacher and WWII child-star, addressing the class before a performance]: Okay, kids, tonight’s the big night! Now remember: the important thing is to just dance flawlessly.
Lisa: Excuse me, why isn’t my name in the program?
Vicki: It is, silly. You’ve got the most important part of all. [Flicks through the pamphlet]
Lisa: Curtain puller!?!
Vicki: No one can see the show if the curtain isn’t open.
Lisa: Bu– my parents are counting on seeing me dance! And I’ve worked ever so hard.
Vicki: I’m sorry, Lisa, but giving everyone an equal part when they’re clearly not equal is called what, again, class?
Class: Communism!
Vicki: That’s right. And I didn’t tap all those Morse code messages to the Allies ’til my shoes filled with blood to just roll out the welcome mat for the Reds.
Actually louis all qualifications of the same grade are equal. A grade 8 qualification ( honours degree) is of an equal standard no matter what educational institution it was achieved at.
That’s just not true, I’ve seen exam papers from school friends studying the same subjects in several different institutions and the standard between them varies wildly.
It’s like saying all teams in the Premiership are of an equal standard because they are all in the same league.
Its not in real life though. Some Universities and IT’s are better than others and the graduates come out more prepared for the real world.
Embarrassing stuff from Paddy, Out of my diploma class of only 26, 10 of them went onto degrees, 1 of them is in IT, the others didn’t survive when it came to putting it into practice.
Of the remaining 16 who achieved Diploma, 3 of us are involved in IT and I am the only one who pursued a career in software development, the other 2 are IT support. Our Diploma was in Software Development.
If you can swallow a book and push it out on the day of the exam, great, doesn’t mean you will be any good.
Pure elitism from Paddy Cosgrave in fairness, from a great event when it first started he seems to be disappearing up his own bottom now with this sort of elitism.
Hala Madrid
lol, no “Hala” at the moment, last night was v disappointing.
Too right, toothless in the 2nd half. With Bale/Cr7 we are very ordinary. Great to see Ramos playing well tho
V true, v much a 1.5 (Bale is .5! :D) man team. Ramos played v well.
CL league will be a lot lesser if Cr7 doesn’t make it.
Need to manage the injury, because what ever way they were “treating” it is a joke.
In fairness a 1st from most of the rest of the colleges is about on par with a 2.2 from TCD.
Is that because most TCD students don’t do better than a 2:2 ?
haha, please do not delude yourself in such a manner, its embarrassing….
This is ridiculous,do degrees encourage innovative & hard working employees?
He reported on radio this morning that 1st class honours degrees had increased massively without any apparent increase in the quality of graduates. Maynooth for example increased its rate of 1st class honours graduates by 900%. They undertake random testing of papers which are anonymous in terms of college/university and they found that the best results (overwhelmingly -78% I think was the figure) came from Trinity graduates. So there’s no elitism here – TCD is simply producing a better standard of graduate – but Trinity is not doling out 1st class degrees willy nilly. The I.Ts did not fare well in their analyses.
Precisely. When I went to Trinity only two of my class got a first. When I went to DCU they were machine gunning them at us.
2 in my class too.
Ok so everyone at each other’s throats here but I’d like to give some food for thought to the people commenting. I’m a mum who has busted her ass to go back and get an honours BSc from an IT. I’ve spent €28 in Aldi every week since September for myself and my child so that I can pay back what it costs. It’s coming up to exam weeks now. My hair has thinned, I have nightmares about 5 times a night as the stress and the fear of not passing and the alternative ie. being on social welfare forever (as an income from one person with no qualification is not sustainable) is an even more terrifying thought… So with all of this, you guys that are commenting here are saying that it doesn’t mean what it says it does? Please be mindful of all the people your insulting when writing your ill thought out comments.. Or didn’t they educate about etiquette and common courtesy in these university’s??! Everyone who got an education is entitled to their reward of accomplishment no need to put anyone down for your own sense of superiority – WE ALL KNOW WHAT’S WHAT …although to you, we’re only mere mortals who are inadequately educated to understand such complex matters…. Grow up there’s a lot more to life than the name of the school you attended and tbh I wouldn’t want to work for ANYONE who had such a ridiculous view in regards to their recruitment strategy! Thank god the world is full of sensible people (that’s common sense btw, which can’t be bought!!)
How is this surprising? It does matter where you get your degree. It always has.
A degree from TCD, Oxbridge, Harvard, etc are valued more highly than from other colleges. This is because they are among the best universities in the world. It makes sense.
This is absolute rubbish. Elitism at its most pretentious and disgusting. A recent survey of American colleges proved that attending an Ivy League University has absolutely no impact on your grades or quality of life, you may get a job just because you went there but ultimately attending a top tier college will not produce a better student or even person for that matter. Inspirational professors are the key to good results and you can find those in any college at any level.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303417104579544161033770526?mod=e2li
It patently is not rubbish. As this article proves. My point was that degrees from certain universities are REGARDED as being of higher value than from others. This is fact. Whether you agree with that or not.
The fact is some universities are seen as being better than others and, if you are a TCD graduate, your degree will be viewed as being more valuable than from any other Irish university.
Now, you may not like that but that is just the way it is.
Oh that’s funny, this ‘article’ proves absolutely nothing. I never denied the reality of some colleges being regarded as better than others, however that supposition is wholly erroneous, as these so-called elite colleges gained their reputations, largely, when they were the only colleges around.
Now, you may not like that but that is just the way it is.
That is incorrect. The world’s universities are routinely rated on their current status as an centre for further education, not on their past achievements.
God, do I have to spell everything out for you……. take a closer look at the world around you. Bye.
Most of the CEOs of large multinationals didn’t go to ‘ivy league’ colleges and some of the top professionals in the world have standard education. Going to a top uni doesn’t in any way make you a better candidate to an IT student. I won’t be going to this web summit, not just because of this article but I’d say it would be boring listening to how rich jack Dorsey is.
Most CEOs of large multinationals are sociopaths.
Being a sociopath doesn’t make you a better human being.
Why don’t they just have an entrance exam of some description and therefore an equal footing for all.
A lot of IT companies actually do that. Much better way of gauging a potential employee’s ability to perform in the role than relying on a qualification from a certain university.
“Now that it’s illegal to discriminate in employment by race, ethnicity, gender, religion or sexual orientation, judging people by where and how much they went to school is just about the only acceptable form of prejudice left.”
Yes because the school you go to is an intrinsic factor to your being and upbringing like all those other factors.
Oh…wait
Sorry Lads but this might be controversial.
The IT courses can be just as good as the University courses but what about the student. Generally speaking University courses have higher entry than IT courses. So the student (generally speaking) should be at a higher level. What goes in is what comes out…
Aiden O’Brien is the best trainer in the world but he won’t make a derby winner out of Piebald. We expect O’Brien to get the best so he produces the best…
So the question from an employer here is if you are this good why didn’t you go to University…
Why didn’t I got to Uni, well the IT was commutable from my parents house and that helped the decision. The IT was in my town, the IT was 180km round trip, I got free rent at home.
All that aside the content of the IT course was much more hands on than the Uni equivalent and smaller classes.
I worked with 2 people here that have degrees from NUIG, they are both out of there with degrees in their area, they both have 5 years more in the workforce than I do, but I am their boss…. so they are still the best???………..
Never been asked in any of the work that I have done if I have a degree, they check my CV, do a technical interview and a technical test and ring references.
“High quality applicants”, so you are not hight quality if you studied in any other college…. That’s brazen ignorance and insulting to most people in the country.
Surely a masters would indicate high quality
OK this is something I come across time and time again. I am a TCD grad and really proud of that fact because as anyone who’s been knows it can be seriously tough. I’m kind of tired of people here and elsewhere constantly bad mouthing TCD and doubting the degrees awarded there as nothing but hype. If I sat here, said I was a tcd grad, rhymed of random facts about the PROVEN excellence of TCD I’d be slaughtered. If I said it in comparison to various ITs, good God. Ultimately I’d be called a snob. The inverse snobbery I have encountered from some non-TCD grads has been ridiculous. TCD is the only place in Ireland you can go where if someone says your college is “not all that” you basically have to sit and smile because to argue is to then end up looking like a snob. So far from these comments I’ve gathered there are apparently 3 ITs in Ireland who are far superior to TCD. I would find this possibly but highly, HIGHLY unlikely. Having recently acheived an international academic scholarship I can attest forst hand how well regarded TCD is around the world and how rewarding and challenging I found studying there.
Ah, I new there’d be more red arrows than green. Now, substitute WIT or ITT everywhere you see TCD and see if I wouldn’t have got a plethora of Greens. Seemingly everyone on here who went to ITs are the good guys. It’s totally pathetic. Talk about an inferiority complex.
I’ve no problem with TCD, I just think its a stupid attitude presented in the article in an effort to promote an event.
If someone was to say they wouldn’t consider hiring Uni grads, there would rightly be a reaction no?
Yeah but if it’s true that research and academia drive economies and all around the world it is universities that carry that out and generate the most revenue from that (and MIT and CalTech are ITs only in name so don’t even go there) then I would be very concerned about the global perception of intel and would consider university discrimination patently anti-intellectual and very damaging. As far as I can tell here, Summit are essentially prioritising theory and the potential for idea generation over merely practical skills and I’m sorry, but if universities generate the most income from research as compared to ITs then surely it’s students too are much more adept at generating new information in addition to utilising the old. This can be demonstrated when a much greater number of university grads go on to PhDs by research, myself included.
I can see the point being made. The web today is made up more and more with people from different backgrounds, esp. with the rise in UX, analysts, and the study of human behaviour playing a large role. There are quite a few leaders in this industry who didn’t get anything close to a degree.
The blanket exclusion of IT’s can only be seen as an insult to non University Grads, and to the inclusive nature of the web. Or, like I said, as a way of promoting the event with a little bit of controversy (which is fine really).
The entire field of visual communication is based on research and idea generation, and not “mere practical skills”. By excluding IT’s you pretty much ignore that entire field. For example, who is supposed to fill the Junior Designer role? (granted this reads more like a production role than a design position)
Mary did you go to Trinity????
Yeah, and am kind of tired of reverse snobbery. In case you haven’t gathered.
But if they had a junior designer role fitting IT skills by their own assesments… wouldn’t they just use IT grads?
That’s the point I am making… It doesn’t make sense. Design & Vis Comm are fairly exclusive to the IT’s. I’m guessing that these roles are exceptions.
How dumb can they be though they MUST be accounting for that somewhere. I don’t disagree with you, I just feel they must have a plan.
Paddy’s idiotic point is based on the fact that TCD is 4 years versus 3 in NUI, XIT’s etc. What he unsurprisingly fails to realise is that whilst there are 3 year general degrees, there are also 4 year honours degrees of equal if not better standard than TCD, especially in the area of computer science.
Personally, I work in tech for a large multinational and hire talent predominately based on experience and downright intelligence rather than a qualification at 22 years of age.
This type of archaic infantile stupidity is a poor reflection on the Summits organisers and reflects badly on the international stage. If I had my way, Paddy would be fired! Arrogant idiot.
Of course, TCD and intelligence are always mutually exclusive.
Idiot
The new TU Dublin graduates would be aiming higher than this design show anyway.
The 2 new Ministers went to UCD… It matters where you were educated; it’s naive to think an IT has the same status as a Uni with world ranking points. There’s a difference between a technical competency degree and a theoretical /academic degree that also includes technical competency.
I saw the word “Ministers” and that was enough, yes our ministers have done sooooo well running this country over the last 20 years, I would think hen educated in a hen house would have make a better job of it. Our minister for sport left school at 16, so tell me why he got the job?
40 new stuff?
Look. The Summit are creating *40* new jobs in Dublin. They can chose who they want to employ and if they feel that Trinity graduates are more educated than the likes of those from ITs, then so be it. It should also be noted that in Paddy’s interview on Newstalk he mentions that he would never hire anybody based solely on academic background. “They need to be creative, have initiative and be entrepreneurial. We have hired lots of people who don’t fit this criteria and also, after you have worked in the world for a year or two, I don’t care about your grades anymore. It’s about how you performed there.”
Congratulations and well done to Paddy and The Summit.
So much breaking down the barriers of bulls**t…
I’m not shocked that employers are choosey and elitist when it comes to choosing potential employees. But I am surprised at how shocked people are to find out how elitist Ireland is!…
Wake up folks, Ireland- like most of the rest of the world- is classist, elitist, unfair and corrupt!… and it’s been like that for a very long time…
Getting a BSc from NUI Maynooth makes me an elitist, thats news to me.
Of course not, what is elitist is the hiring of people based on what college they attended, if you were given a job based solely on the fact that you attended NUI Maynooth your employer would be considered elitist, not you, though I’m sure you would not argue……. could you not figure that out by yourself?
Your better suited to writing poetry than sarcasm mate. Run along back to Ios
Sorry Eanna but we’re not mates, but thank you for the compliment. I’m quite happy with my sarcasm too. I’m actually not from Ios but that’s not a bad suggestion.
Mate, dude, man, bud, comrade, acquaintance, buddy , friend, chum, pal, crony, randomer from the internet or homie. Many different ways of saying the same thing Achilles. Your proverbial heel is that you take everything literally no need to be an aspie about it.
Interlocutor, turn up one’s detector…
rent-a-quote
haha rent-a-quote, no just a response. Good luck.
rent-a-quote, sound-bite your just a talking head that shits out insults and put downs like a slot machine.
actually I have not posted one insult or put down. now I’m bored, Good luck.
There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.
“There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life.”
Frank Zappa
Attribution is the better part of valour.
I assume they also have a stipulation that any of their potential interns must have a full beard as well. Especially the women.
Well education didn’t stop Paddy Cosgrove from being an ignoramus .
No one over 30 need apply.
TCD is 129th in The Times University Rankings. Not brill, admittedly, but higher placed than every other centre of higher education in the country. So yes, our degrees are better, our entry requirements are tougher, and our grading system is more rigorous. If you didn’t get in, you didn’t study hard enough.
There are plenty of software jobs to go around, no need to worry lads. Ireland has a graduate deficit in the IT industry. At the height of the bust, I found work in about two weeks. Everybody I graduated with who wanted work, found it. They’re crying out for good people elsewhere, who cares about the lousy summit?
Having worked in the IT industry for over 15 years, I cannot fathom this approach. University degrees are good indicators which allow employers to assess new personal entering workplace. After about 3-5 work experience their relevance drops dramatically and should be replaced by experience, expertise and suitability… To continue to filter on such is both lazy and in my opinion ignorant and can lead to business opportunities being lost (especially in the IT domain)
I’ve looked at the roles on offer here and apart for a few, none require what they are calling “High Quality Graduates” in fact a lot are looking for seasoned professionals…
Tbh – I would not be comfortable leaving my recruitment needs with this organisation as I could end up with “high Quality Graduates” without expertise in a role which they will not stay long due to pay scale and opportunity…
Oh I qualify #RatherWashMeMuff
A
Paddy Cosgrave setup MiCandidate (BEBO for politcians….) and the web summit (Geek pissup…..) so he’s not exactly set the world on fire…..has he? If you want real genius the Collison bros or others are the real deal.
He’s no tech genius and this new company is essentialy an events management company for tech companies. Not exactly revolutionary is it? Can’t see it attracting anyone with such qualifications anyway.
Even better is that to run his events he’ll need the services of many people with no degrees whatsoever to work in Hotels, catering, security and setup.
So how many TCD heads does it take to change a lightbulb ?………… 1 to setup a website, 1 to host a bulb changing summit about it, 1 to do a phd on it and 1 to call the electrician…….
He may be right that grade inflation has occurred and I agree that some of the former RTC’s are awarding degrees that are not equal with may others. The term “degree” has been cheapened but I’m not sure how TCD is immune from the disease?
Interestingly up until 2003 all DIT engineering degrees were awarded by Trinity. It was good enough for them back then…….
So Paddy Cosgrave is the new self-appointed benchmarker for higher-education and third-level degrees. Well, what was FETAC for? You have demeaned many a fine university, institute and college as well as their many lecturers, many senior to you in your industry. Shame on you Paddy! Count us out of your summit. One finger points outward, but, three point inward. You’ve lost a lot of credibility and certain of your roles, responsibilities and appointments need to be questioned by relevant authorities with judgemental skills of more clarity, skill and impartial objectivity than your. You have been appointed to your level of incompetence. If you possess any self-dignity, admit your mistake with humility and resign your positions.
Have i missed something here? Everyone arguing about uni versus IT…
Having worked in the IT industry for over 15 years, I cannot fathom this approach. University degrees are good indicators which allow employers to assess new personal entering workplace. After about 3-5 work experience their relevance drops dramatically and should be replaced by experience, expertise and suitability… To continue to filter on such is both lazy and in my opinion ignorant and can lead to business opportunities being lost (especially in the IT domain)
I’ve looked at the roles on offer here and apart for a few, none require what they are calling “High Quality Graduates” in fact a lot are looking for seasoned professionals…
Tbh – I would not be comfortable leaving my recruitment needs with this organisation as I could end up with “high Quality Graduates” without expertise in a role which they will not stay long due to pay scale and opportunity…
What a pretentious toxxer, who would want to work for such a pretentious outfit ….the money must be great … Only reason anybody would decide to work with such pratts …..
Elitist crap better off asking if u own an apple mac and visit starbucks regularly, rule them guys out straight away!!
The Michael O’Leary school of self promotion?
Stupid thing to announce. I mean, sure this kind of thing goes on but it seems like perhaps the summit needs some attention to get bums on seats.
I did notice that they were doing 2 for 1 tickets which seemed odd. Plus, excluding iadt is crazy
have your say