We need your help now
Support from readers like you keeps The Journal open.
You are visiting us because we have something you value. Independent, unbiased news that tells the truth. Advertising revenue goes some way to support our mission, but this year it has not been enough.
If you've seen value in our reporting, please contribute what you can, so we can continue to produce accurate and meaningful journalism. For everyone who needs it.
Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
By continuing, you are indicating that you accept our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.
THE COUNT FOR the European elections has hit a stumbling block in the Dublin constituency.
It has now been suspended until 11am tomorrow, amid questions about what will happen with transfers. Clare Daly TD was one of the candidates seen deep in discussions with the returning officer over the issue.
The discussions are going on over what happens to the vote transfers which would determine who would end up in third and fourth place. It all centres around the fact the fourth seat will not be available until the UK leaves the EU.
The dispute concerns what happens to the fifth place votes – whether they will be transferred or not.
As it stands, Ciarán Cuffe and Frances Fitzgerald have been elected in the Dublin constituency. Next is Barry Andrews on 16.38%, followed by Clare Daly on 15.32% and Lynn Boylan on 12.83%. The most recent candidate to be eliminated was Gary Gannon, whose votes are yet to be officially distributed.
Brexit
With four seats up for grabs and five candidates left on the scoreboard in Dublin, it would seem the next step would be to eliminate the fifth candidate and freeze the scoreboard, thus giving the four candidates their mandate to go to Brussels.
That is in fact the normal process under Irish constitutional law.
However, while the candidates in the top three positions are certain to go to Europe, the fourth seat was part of the 73 seats which the UK held in the EU when it had planned to leave Europe on 29 March.
When that didn’t happen, the UK had to contest the elections and take the seats until they do leave.
This means that whoever gets the fourth seat in this constituency wouldn’t be able to take up the role of MEP until the UK exits the EU – which means they don’t get the salary or power that comes with the role. In effect, whoever gets that fourth seat will be waiting around to take it up, during a time when Brexit is being dragged further and further on.
The outcome of this discussion will be closely watched – not least because it could impact on the result of the Ireland South count, depending on how close it is. Tomorrow morning will see how far these discussions will go.
Speaking to TheJournal.ie, Clare Daly TD said:
“It’s the returning officer’s prerogative to suspend the count, he has chosen to do so because I think they want to reassure themselves that the procedures they’re applying are consistent with the decisions they made earlier,” she said.
“It’s unfair to the staff as well who thought they’d get home early but honestly that’s as much as we know.”
- With reporting by Nicky Ryan, Christina Finn, Aoife Barry
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
The fifth, & bottom candidate has to be distributed to apportion the preferences on those votes.
The process must be fully completed to ensure that the PR system is respected to the nth degree.
@William Kelly: This never happens. Once the candidates reach the quota or are deemed elected, the counting always stops. Transfers from lower eliminated candidates are never distributed as you suggest they should. Only reason this emerges now is because of the 4th “cold-storage” MEP seat. However, i can see this going to the High Court.
@Paul Whitehead: Should be no need for the High Court. As it stands the 4th seat is not ‘real’ and may never materialise. Therefore the count should be completed as if it were a three seater.
@Jointheclubtoo: The Quotas used to elect the winners so far are based on 4 seats though no? So they couldn’t change the formula mid count to make it 3 seats… I can see there being a new election when the UK goes – if they actually go.
@Jointheclubtoo: Quota has already been determined based on 4 seats though, so it could be argued it would be inconsistent to treat it like a 3 seater at this stage.
@Denonu: fair point. Ciaran cuffes transfers probably went more to daly than Andrews. And. There would have been less with a higher quota. It doesn’t really matter what way voted go or rules are set as long as they aren’t changed during the process. If it was treated as a 4 seater best to keep it that way.
Sounds a little suspect. Interesting to see what happens and who looses out!
@Madra: What exactly is “suspect” about it? Is it not just a request by two sides on the clarification of the rules?
@Madra: the party that doesn’t tighten up!!
The staff are getting well paid for the work they are doing. Also is it the position they want or the salary and power???
@gary mullen: yeah but they are due back in the schools and Garda stations since yesterday morning ..they will have to start eating into their holidays at this rate
@@CallingDoubleStandardsSince76: jealousy?!
@gary mullen: just the money – and maybe a little -ok a lot of the power !!
@@CallingDoubleStandardsSince76: there not all civil servants that do it.
Gannon vote should be distributed, and daily would take third seat,and Andrew’s could lose out to boylan.
@@mdmak33: I think you’re right about Daly, but Boylan is too far behind
@@mdmak33: They also have to distribute the surplus for Frances Fitzgerald which will favour Andrews. It’s likely that Andrews finishes 3rd without Boylan’s transfer and 4th with it.
S f have paid for their support of legalised murder of children. They need to re- think their policy.6.4 on perceived censorship scale.
@Greedylocks: you really need to get over this, the people of Ireland have voted on it by a vast majority. If you don’t agree with abortion don’t have one. Also this article has nothing to do with abortion. It’s about clarification over the fifth seat which won’t be taken up from a Dublin candidate until the UK leaves Europe.
@Greedylocks: The process of free thinking seems to be lost on you. Personally in turmoil about the repeal act. At the end of the day it was the hypocrisy of church and State that brought this decision to a referendum. Would never support the blueshirts, F.F. or so called Labour party. It was a decision made according to people’s view on the repeal act, not taken lightly… for you to blame Sinn Fein concerning the loss of seats in recent elections is disingenuous. Certainly questions must be asked why seats were lost. My question is why did people re elected parties that brought this country to it’s knees. F.F./ F.G. The pox and the plague United. What a nation of fools we are.
I will never get “over” it. As an Irish citizen i will never condone
The intensional law of taken a child’s life.
@Donal Desmond: your delusional
@Greedylocks: but it’s not a child. Don’t condone, but don’t push your beliefs and choices on other people.
@Greedylocks: So you don’t believe in democracy?
@Greedylocks: you’re *
@Greedylocks: If you can’t master the arts of spelling, spacing, punctuation, capitalisation, or recognise the highly significant semantic difference between “your” and “you’re” how do you expect anyone to value your opinion on matters of a more subtle nature?
@Greedylocks: I believe there are countries around the world still in the Stone Age in regards abortion’s might I suggest you emigrate. Troglodyte
@Fachtna Roe: The Journal comments section might suddenly get very small if commentators are required to write in perfect English. Greedylocks’ offence is very, very mild compared to some of the absolute travesties that are posted here and especially on Facebook! Generally speaking, other commentators usually resort to pointing out grammar mistakes when they have no counter argument to make.
@Sarah Gannon: Sarah, if people said that after the 1983 referendum the eight would never have been repealed. In a democracy every citizen is fully entitled to canvas for a change to legislation or for a referendum whenever they want. That is democracy in action. While I don’t think that the abortion genie can ever be put fully back in the bottle I do get the sense recently that some of the people who voted Yes have some regret, were reluctant Yes voters or are now conflicted especially after the recent Holles Street tragedy.
Because the Government of the day can now legislate whatever way they want it is entirely possible that a future government may well tighten up on abortion circumstances as part of a coalition deal. It is inevitable (sadly) that there will be more abortion tragedies like Holles Street for a variety of reasons so this issue is never going to go away.
Sounds a little suspect. Interesting to see what happens.
In fairness why wasn’t the situation with the 4th candidate totally ironed out in fine detail?
This is going to lead to constitutional challenge or legal cases whichever way it goes
@David Grey: It makes no sense. Surely given the current situation with the 4th seat they would have made it clear what was going to happen.
@Damien Hawe: They have done. The election law specifies that Dublin is a 4 seat constituency and that the last person elected won’t take their seat until the European Parliament sets a date for it.
Surely the quota would be different if an extra seat exists?
After everything that has happened in this country how?
How have this shower been elected?
@Ismise Máire: Just because people didn’t vote for radical extremists and religious anti-choice parties such as Renua and Aontú you are angry. The paltry number of votes both parties received shows how out of touch with reality anti-choice extremists are.
Hopefully Daly will get 3rd, then she is off to europe 4000 euros unvouchered expenses she can spend on Wallace and Ming. And they can do the same for her. Then we will not have to listen to a load of guff about Venezula being a workers paradise, a right to no evictions, and how Israel is the root of all evil. Fly away Lads and enjoy yourselves on the back of the taxpayer.
“This is in fact the normal process under Irish Constitutional law.” Great to see constitutional scholars being deployed on this one by the Journal. Since when was it a normal process that one seat would be frozen – maybe indefinitely? And maybe just three seats will ever be in play?
Of course it never occurred to the Eu to save the Public some of the Publics Money by getting rid of the seats after The British Leave .
The Eu is riding the @rse off the People and the People are hollering Giddy-Up .
People that dumb don’t deserve any better . Yahoos !
Frances Fitzgerald the low life smearer of macabe stil on the gravy train. Nation of muppets
have your say