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FOUR TRAVELLER MEN were compensated €6,000 each after being refused service in a bar in Maynooth.
The members of the Traveller community were denied service and told that only regulars were being served on the night in question.
The group had been attending a human rights course when they had decided to go for a drink to a nearby pub.
The individuals involved applied jointly to the District Court for redress under the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2003 with legal representation provided to the group by the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission.
The matter was settled before hearing, with agreement from the licensed premises to pay €6,000 compensation to each of the individuals, plus a further €500 payment to each, to be donated to a charity of their choice.
A further condition of the settlement was that the staff involved attend a course of equality training.
Chief Commissioner of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission Emily Logan stated:
The Commission welcomes this legal settlement, and the clear message it sends that discrimination in private services, including licensed premises is not acceptable and can be challenged.
Recent research by the ESRI has shown that Travellers continue to experience very high levels of discrimination and are over 22 times more likely to experience discrimination in Ireland in private services.
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@John O Chrualaoich: when you work in a pub with no security then you have to preempt any trouble. The typical pattern was one or two lads look to get served and if successful they would send word out and over the next hour you would have a large group in.
The pub is then frequented regularly and violence/vandalism is guaranteed. This is a fact of life in the pub trade and I don’t envy publicans these days
My pub, my rules!
@Alan O’Rourke:
In that case you better have deep pockets
@Alan O’Rourke: Government rules or no licence.
@Alan O’Rourke: Yes, within the confines of the law.
@Alan O’Rourke: any chance you could give me the address of your pub Alan? (Assuming you do a good Sunday carvery) just bear in mind I am from the travelling community & I’m looking for some easy compensation off someone who doesn’t understand the basic law they operate under.
I better not voice my opinion in case I get a solicitors letter.6 thousand Euro each! Wow.
@David Mc Nally: The pub probably saved money in the long run.
@Nick Allen: You think that is a valid grounds to not serve them? Where is you line? Spanish, Jewish, English, Muslim not Irish? Just so we know what level you are at.
@Nick Allen: Years ago, I went to Wembley for a Bowie concert. Astonished to find the entire place on lock down. It’s as if the town was expecting trouble. Glad to know that the English have cleaned up their act. The concert itself was great.
@Nick Allen: So the risk to your business is not a judgment call. It isn’t based of a judgment of the people in front of you but what you have heard about or seen of a particular group they , in your opinion, are in.
So if you walked into a pub in England and the refused you based on the reputation Irish people have you wouldn’t mind? You wouldn’t see it as prejudice?
Seeing as you didn’t mention Jewish or Muslim people are we to take it you do have a problem with them?
@Kal Ipers: Have you ever seen Jews/Spanish/Muslim/English/ Irish regularly smash up a pub?
@Ray Farrell: Nope and I have not seen travellers do it either. I have worked in bars and seen lots of people do lots of things and kicked them out not once did I feel the need to base the decision on a person’s race or culture
@Nick Allen: I am not twisting anything around. I gave you comparable examples. You seem to be the one twisting things around to say why you are justified in your views. Just expanding on what you are saying. Irish people do have a reputation in other countries for causing trouble. When my wife was a child visiting Birmingham she and her mother were asked to leave a cafe as they were Irish. The bombings were very recent. Irish people were not welcome in many bars in England but now things are different but we had a reputation.
So how about you don’t try and justify and stop twisting and just say you are prejudice against travellers? If you think you are right why so afraid to make that statement on its own?
@Kal Ipers:
Your example of the Birmingham bombing just exemplifies how you haven’t got a clue and are just trying to jump on the snowflake PC bandwagon.
@Martin Ryan: Considering that Travellers account for 0.6% of the total population. Explain why 23% of the female prison population and 16% of the male prison population are Travellers ?
@Henry Fingleton: you’re spot on, worked in a bar for a few years and it’s d same pattern every time. Always telling staff they were wrong changed too trying to get a few bob back as well. I know you can’t tar them all with the same brush but 9 times outa 10 they’ll steal the tar and the brush.
@Martin Ryan: Regularly is the key word you’ve conveniently left out
@Sean Conway: haha is that right Sean yeah? You’ve never worked in a bar clearly. Sure just sit back and wait on the guards as you play dodge glass. Sterling advice mate
Let’s not forget that landlords are in the business to make a living – they’re not just going to turn away money for no reason.
What the do-gooders seem to forget is that landlords have made a hard-nosed business decision that in the long run serving travellers is going to cost them more than it earns them.
Crazy awards like this mean that publicans are going to lose out either way.
@Avina Laaf: A barman in Alabama could have made the same argument about serving black people. It doesn’t make it right and it doesn’t mean that it is not discriminatory and prejudicial. What the barman is essentially saying is that his clientele are of like mind to himself / herself but the truth is that they might both need a wake up call.
@Henry Fingleton: have worked in bars myself and know exactly what you mean. There is a simpler way to deal with this problem. Laws in Australia make it illegal for you to serve someone that is intoxicated, 3 or 4 drinks lads and yer out! And the law is on your side now.
@Casper: bars are in the business of making money and are not in the business of arbitrarily refusing custom. There are valid ethical and economic reasons to refuse them. The type of urban middle class smug libernazis that defend them never have to tolerate their abuse and violence.
@Casper: yes Casper but that completely ignores the statistical likelihood of certain folk causing trouble. And if a settled person is known to be trouble or potential trouble, they won’t be served either
@Martin Ryan, Shutting down roads for Sulky Races
Dragging a load of caravans into a space and leaving a big mess
Taking over a hotel for a wedding and destroying it while fighting each other
Coming back to Rathkeale for Xmas and destroying the place where extra resources have to be put in place for them
Apart from that it’ s mostly in people’s heads that travellers cause the most problems in society
off the top of my head will think of a few more if you like?
@Casper: people from the settled community get barred all the time if you bar a traveller your brought to court and fined if you don’t bar a traveller your premises will be trashed
Settling without a hearing is all well and good. However, does it not leave open the possibility of spurious claims being made by all sorts of people in the hope of getting financial reward without being tested?
Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission. IHREC.
When was this new Quango set up? What is their budget.
Don’t remember any politicians being asked about it or discussion on RTE.
They are advertising a lot on radio at present.
Do we really need another overpaid Quango for human rights in Ireland
@Sean Conway, it’s true there’s a Guard at every street corner only happy enough to wade into a traveller mess, it makes their shift so much more interesting having their jaw broken, trying to break up drunken people who are familiar with the inside of caravans, who can’t remember why their fighting, very fulfilling I imagine, should try and get out more, has anyone seen @Martin, as he said “no didn’t think so” Is school finished early today for the Christmas, or something ?
Got refused for having a shaved head years ago, “hairscrimination”! Went next door for our pints!
@flabar oflabar: 5 grand, minimum.
@flabar oflabar: Don’t spend it all in the one place!
@David Mc Nally: travellers break the law every day & if allowed to drink in that pub could’ve broke a lot more. I understand all travellers are not like that, but many are nowadays unfortunately.
@Martin Ryan: Intimidate and Rob my elderly mother for one
Last year I was refused entry to a yuppie bar because I wasn’t dressed properly – a hoodie instead of shirt and a sweater.
Where can I claim my compensation for being discriminated because of my looks?
Proper order lets hope this sends a message to all those businesses that think they can discriminate against the traveling community.
@John O Chrualaoich:
Maybe you should try look at yourself to find a positive role model that’s if there is any thing positive to look at
@Casper, are you not supposed to start with some made up story about how you grew up beside a halting site and there were all diamond geezers, never fought or stole anything?
People don’t discriminate against them because it came to them in a dream, but more likely to be like me and Henry above, through first hand experience of their more common behaviours.
They stopped making tin pots and travelling for that matter a long time ago.
@Sean Kelly:
If that’s how you feel well god bless you
@Casper: My neighbours, Farmers were robbed by Travellers recently, Gardaí caught the suspects after a few days but were let off, No compensation for the Neighbours though…just a frightening experience
@John O Chrualaoich:
If you like you can make up stories if you want and you can be racist all you like but the law is the law you cannot discriminate against traveling community and if you do you will pay the price simple as that
@Gerry Murphy:
Lots of farmers have been robbed from ordinary people too
@Sean Kelly:
I am big enough and bold enough to stand up and speak for myself and if you feel bad for me that’s your problem, travellers may not be a race but they experience racism within this society day in and day out
@Sean Kelly:
The term racism has expanded over many decades to include other groups in society so the term racism can and rightly so be used in this case, your more than welcome to check it out for yourself you could do with a little education
@Casper: why do you think they experience “racism” what is it that they do day in day out to garner this reputation? It’s not home help they are giving!
@Casper: a cafe across from my restaurant got broken into one night… by travellers. And had all their stock taken. Just FYI
@Casper: Maybe if some of the travellers conducted themselves like ordinary decent citizens, publicans, shop owners, etc, wouldn’t have an issue and be apprehensive with them coming into their premises for fear of potential carnage occurring. They don’t exactly have a reputation for being pillars of society now do they?
@Gerry Murphy: Travellers are like the rest of us there’s good and bad . You seem to be suggesting that the people here on this story robbed your farmer friends is this what you are saying ? Please enlighten us.
@Casper: What’s the chances of a publican getting compensation from travellers who wreck his pub? You must have your head up your ass if you think they don’t start brawling when they’re drunk.
@Casper: Most of it is deserved. I know a settled traveller who is one of the nicest gentlemen I have ever met. Unfortunately most travellers are not like him.
@Damien Wallanger: What rights do they not have that everyone else enjoys?
Racist? But they’re Irish
@ Damo Wangler, Those women, most likely fighting with the Taxpayers Euro, to retain their culture of not paying any tax and making a big mess everywhere
@Casper: you obiously have never worked in the bar business to come out with such shit A stick in time saves nine
Surely the owner of any business has a right to do business with whoever he pleases His house his prerogative
@Casper: if you can just explain how, since I was a nipper, every traveller encampment I have ever seen has top of the range Caravans and vehicles? That always bugged me every time we passed one when I was camping with my parents in a banger of a car towing a 12 foot caravan. What do they work at to enjoy such luxuries? Hey didn’t lick it off a stone!
Wonder what would happen if a) the landlord took it to court and claimed that the people weren’t actually travellers… it’s hardly like they have a register.. or b) claimed to be a traveller himself?
Don’t understand why the staff are getting the blame for anything, it was obvious that the policy by pub owners was not to serve travellers, staff were only doing their job
@martin dolan: If the bar owner had a policy of beating customers with sticks would they do that too? Only following orders hasn’t been an acceptable excuse for a long time. Your boss can tell you to do something illegal but you are the one breaking the law
@Kal Ipers: if they were travellers maybe.
@David Conroy: Sorry 22% and 15% ( Irish Prison Service)
@Henry Fingleton:
People in the settled community have behaved like this too and they are never discriminated against, you can’t paint all travellers with the one brush just like we don’t paint all from settled communities with one brush, I have no bother chucking people out when they have done wrong but only when they’ve done wrong
@Niamh White: easy solution here. Make any award payable to the court poor box. That will this Claim culture very quickly.
@John O Chrualaoich: stealing and selling rhino horn….
The judges in this country are worse than a disgrace
Business opportunity!
@Martin Ryan so as usual no meaningful reply about traveller criminality, even when specific to the travelling community, you never addressed Rhino horn theft across Europe as mentioned above, boy racers are not like Sulky racing in any way, Rathkeale is not completely owned by travellers and doesn’t give them the right to flaunt the law there.
Just the usual horse manure, you would find after a Sulky race
Answer that I will head up to Greystones to meet A hardworking traveller Familly, used to live near Bray when they had a camp at one of the Motorway exits what a mess, and if there was funeral it was like Zombie dawn of the dead
Rookie mistake, all you simply have to say is that you refused them because they appeared intoxicated and it is illegal to serve someone under the influence. Also, “I had absolutely no idea they were travellers, how would I?”
@Martin Ryan: with a rate 82% unemployment in the traveller, you must know the minority. Jog on
@Martin Ryan: Do you mean the people who live next to the Bray head golf course? Those are the only clean traveller community I have ever seen. But, at the same time they are not travellers. They have lived there for decades, and if they dont move they arent travelling.
Otherwise I dont know any travellers near Greystones. I also think you would crack a glass over Johns head if he met you.
I’m curious! Are there any bars in Ireland that are owned and ran by Travellers?
@David Mc Nally: the law broke the pub
It’s very sad to think if you say something bad about a traveller on this platform you’d get a thousand likes and if you say something good you get nothing but abuse, Irish people’s attitudes need to change towards the traveling community but I think the hatred for them is so deeply ingrained that it’s probably too late.
@Casper maybe if the change came from them, maybe some small token gesture, to live like they are the same species as the other people on earth, the maybe your wish would come true.
Would love to see if you feel the same way after being discriminated against by them, the comments and the likes, for what it’s worth show the feelings of the majority of people.
In the meantime they are an embarrassment to the Irish Nation when they do go travelling/thieving world wide, and they and their leaders and community groups bring this on themselves for the defending of the indefensible. More condemnation of the offenders and less of the poor me.
@Casper: The solution is in the hands of that community. Stop robbing and making old people live in fear and give something back to society instead of take take take. I’ve only been robbed four times and it was all travellers. I can never forget or forgive what they did taking my family heirlooms with my memories of past generations, and especially what those savages did to my horse. Only they can change how they are perceived, we can’t.
@John O Chrualaoich:
I don’t feel one bit embarrassed and I am as Irish as they come, do you feel embarrassed
Yes I do feel embarrassed by them
I notice you are unable to answer any other point made so that’s that so, we can agree to differ, and you can happily defend the smelly traveller till they come crashing into your life. When you do have to leave the house you might encounter some of their charming ethnicity first hand which might help to colour and inform your opinions, until then keep trolling along with David
@Casper: It’s travellers attitudes that need to change. There’s a good reason they’re not liked.
@Damien Wallanger: I think the statistics on these robberies speak for themselves when/if they perpetrators are actually caught. We are all aware of the gangs coming out of Dublin robbing people in the country but compared to the aforementioned it would suggest that its a different stat. Here’s an IT article which gives some clarity, especially the Castlerea inmates being 50% travellers.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/disproportionate-number-of-travellers-in-prison-population-1.3263524
@Casper: maybe if the travelling community changed their attitude towards almost everything than the settled community would follow suit with their attitude towards travellers!
I mean most of it is not prejudice but personal experience!
@Patrick J. O’Rourke: get lost with those facts and figures Damien doesn’t need them to know he’s better than the rest of us
Hey @ Damien Wallenger do you have any arguments to dispute what’s said, if not why are you here and what are you contributing to the debate, not unlike the topic we are discussing, no worthwhile contributions so far
@David Conroy: 50% of the Castlereagh prison population are travellers.
That was an expensive round!
@John O Chrualaoich: i’ll tell you what john, come to Greystones, and i will personally introduce you to some very decent hardworking and tax compliant members of the travelling community also their are boy racers to take over from the sulkys plenty of lads who go out just for a p!ss up and a fight and Rathkeale, is pretty much owned by the travellers.
@Niamh White: 2 best jobs in Ireland, politics and travellers….. Both paid by the taxpayer.
@Henry Fingleton: All a barman has to do is serve them. and if thay cause trouble. then call the garda. end of.
Unless these men had been known to cause trouble in this establishment, or in another pub, then the decision sounds bang to rights.
@John O Chrualaoich: Please tell me something that members of the travelling community have done illegally that members of the settled community have not…didnt thnk so !!!@
@Martin Ryan: Slavery?
Ehm.. a pub is, well, public? Publician can refuse service on violation of house rules. Has this happened?
Would the Gardai have to be involved in this prosecution ?
Reason I ask is I once saw a very aggressive traveller gang demand drink in a small pub in the midlands.
They were refused and sent one of their ladies to the barracks while boasting they would ‘clane out’ the publican.
She came back and was overheard telling the ‘boss man’ that no Guatd was available.
They left without another word.
Why didn’t he just serve them water?
@Sean Kelly: No sean, hardworking as in getting up at 5/6 in the morning and tax compliant as in Revenue compliant come along take the test or are you afraid that your inherent hatred of the traveller community will be proven false.
@David Conroy: that is the exact argument white supremacists make about black society in the USA. It proves a correlation not causality. Travellers are also discriminated against by gardai and the courts, and are more likely to be imprisoned and receive harsher sentences. It’s a complex issue. Stopping travellers having a drink is not an answer.
@Terry Cahill: Someone quoted bar rules in Australia as if it’s relevant to Ireland.And Australia is a kip.
Jesus Christ
All, most of the comments on this are ignorant, discriminatory and defamatory against travellers. I’ve reported all, I hope the journal does not condone such behavior on this. Discriminatory against travellers is illegal, understand the judgment from this case and learn when your views are wrong and promoting further discrimination. Defamation (published on this) is also serious matter so please stop the ignorant uneducated analysis and allegations against travellers. Basic human rights and equal and fair treatment for all. Ireland 2017 modern day and human rights for all please. I’m Irish, educated and not biased against travellers.
@John Mulligan: Correct, they are moved there by IPS because they get a hard time in the other prisons.
@Martin Ryan: And BTW the biggest criminals in this country wear suits and uniforms you know the ones i mean but your are obviously ok with that.None so Blind as they say .
I don’t drink or frequent public houses , publicians are like the farmers bleeding hearts , they certainly know how to charge the dopes that piss there money up the wall
@Giroud Doherty:
Well you generally get treated the way you treat others.
@David Mc Nally:
Is the law always right?
@Kieran Conroy: did you mean WTF has Australia to do with this horrible dump,?
@nafoits: Nobody should be refused in any shop or pub because of who they are. If you commit crime you do time regardless of who you are. The statistics speak for themselves and no amount of sugar coating can hide this elephant (Or Rhino) in the room !
@Chris Finn: Why would tax evasion prevent a bar from serving travellers?
@Liam Mac Roibin: Where do you buy your clothes and electronic devices ? many of which come from sweat shops in Asia, where very young people are forced to work for a pittance .
this is a great result for the Travellers. Discrimination in Ireland against Travellers in is a disgrace!
@Giroud Doherty:
We had a “traveller” (we called them something else) family living close to us when we were kids growing up, about 5 doors away, there were several families the same on the estate at the back of us.
I remember being frightened to death in bed at night with the carry on, several cars and vans turning up an a melee in the street, especiall when they had a wedding in town. How many children were similarly terrified by theactions of these “travellers?”
And the guards, solicitors, judges and campaigners nowhere to be seen to fight for us to have a peaceful life.
@Martin Ryan: close them down, then they won’t even have the pittance ( in your monatary thinking) to live on! And yes I have lived in Asia, and yes they do work for small wages but commensurate with the cost of living. For some the “big” companies are their only sourse of income, yes wages could be better, yes conditions could be better, but you looking at it all from your Ivory castle in the sky doesn’t help much.
@Andy K: No in greystones itself Andy,and no i would not crack a glass over anyones head unless of course they harmed one of my children, thats obviously the way you sort your problems.
@Eileen Nolan: it’s the very definition of prejudice in fact. Irish people love to get worked up about what’s happening the poor Rohingyas but overlook the discrimination that they themselves are involved in on their own doorstep.
@Niamh White: Not if you face discrimination and embarrassment. Travellers will continue stand up for their rights as long as they get treated like dirt. thanks to social media we can keep sharing cases like this to encourage more travellers to do the same.
@Chris Finn: If those four specific people had caused trouble before or were barred, then I can understand refusing them service. What is NOT right is to see travellers , tar them all with the one brush and and make a judgement of ‘rape, violence, theft, tax evasion, robbery……..’ That’s discrimination, it’s illegal and a lot of Irish people don’t want to accept that
@David Conroy: Because travellers can’t count?.
@David Conroy: what do you mean they get a hard time in other prisons ? How do you know that?
@Sean Conway: Imbecile, end of
@Tom Phelan: WTF has Australia got to do with this? Horrible dump.
@Sean Conway: Now that is what I call a brain fart!
@Michael Geraghty: sorry i cant comprehend your drivel must be your college education.
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