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Taoiseach says Treaty negotiators were 'great people' but declines to say if De Valera should have been among them

Éamonn De Valera, the founder of Martin’s Fianna Fáil party, famously did not travel to London for the Treaty negotiations in 1921.

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TAOISEACH MICHEÁL MARTIN has said the people who negotiated The Treaty were “great people, irrespective of what position they took”, as he denied that the centenary of the event has been a low-key affair. 

An Taoiseach was joined by Tánaiste Leo Varadkar and Culture Minister Catherine Martin at the opening of a new exhibition in Dublin Castle which focuses on the 1921 truce between Irish and British forces and the Treaty negotiations that followed. 

The exhibition includes, for the first time ever, a public presentation of both the Irish and British copies of the Treaty document.

The Treaty was signed in Downing Street on 6 December 1921 and outlined the proposed Irish Free State as a dominion within the British Commonwealth.

The Treaty was passed by a narrow margin of just seven votes in Dáil Éireann in January 1922. Instead of leading to peace on the island it marked the beginning of the Civil War. 

The bitterness of the Civil War persisted for decades and the two parties formed in the aftermath of the Civil War, Fianna Fáil and Cumann na nGaedheal/Fine Gael, had never governed in the same government until Martin and Varadkar’s parties agreed to enter into coalition for the first time last year. 

This coalition was much remarked upon in early 2020 but the Covid-19 pandemic has prevented Treaty commemorations on the scale of those seen for Easter Rising.

Speaking today, An Taoiseach said the two events are not comparable as The Treaty was “more prosaic” that the Easter Rising. 

“1916 is one kind of moment in our history, the sort of foundational event, a rebellion in all its glory and all of that. You’re now into a more prosaic, exciting nonetheless process of negotiation, the establishment of nationhood and all of that, which actually we will be dealing with for the next number of years,” he said. 

287100th Treaty Anniversary Tánaiste Leo Varadkar, Taoiseach Micheál Martin and Culture MInister Catherine Martin. RollingNews.ie RollingNews.ie

Asked by The Journal was he disappointed that the Treaty commemorations have not sparked a similar national conversation as was seen during the Easter Rising commemorations, An Taoiseach pointed to a recent seminar by President Michael D Higgins and what he said was “substantial academic output”.

He said that the exhibition he was attending was “much more substantive” than, for example, an Air Corps flyover as seen to commemorate 1916.   

“Binging to the public for the very first time, the actual minutes and records of the time. I mean, that’s a far greater substance than one flyover on a given day, and this will be year-long, one of many events that will be held to remember and reflect on both Treaty and and events after the Treaty as well,” he said. 

Varadkar also pointed to other events that will follow in the coming months and said that there will be “a State occasion” to mark the centenary of the handover over Dublin Castle. 

“This is the centenary of the signing of the Treaty, a really important historical event, but of course the democratic event, which was the decision of the Dáil to agree to the Treaty and the Treaty election afterwards, are different centeneraries,” Varadkar said.

But the most important one in many ways is going to be centenary in January, which is the centenary of the handover of this place, Dublin Castle, by the British forces to Michael Collins and the Provisional Government and there will be a State occasion around that.

The narrow vote in favour of The Treaty in the Dáil followed a series of debates of increasing bitterness, with both Martin and Varadkar suggesting that more time could have been provided to emerge in the period of December 1921 and January 1922. 

276100th Treaty Anniversary RollingNews.ie RollingNews.ie

Varadkar said that one of the things that has struck him about the Treaty debates is how Northern Ireland “was not really a major issue”.

“Partition had already happened, Northern Ireland had already been established, and both Collins and De Valera agreed to that coercing Ulster was never going to work, that it would have to be done by consent and by persuasion and interestingly it took others much longer to come around to that view,” he said. 

Speaking about the Civil War that followed, Martin said it should be looked at “in a European context” and that other nations also fought longer civil wars.

“I think we should always look at our own history in a European context, sometimes we don’t do that and we tend to be too insular. Actually, it was a great tragedy what subsequently happened after the Treaty, but in relative terms to other European countries it was a short civil war, but a terrible, bloody civil war and a very unfortunate one from that perspective,” he said. 

In a statement today, Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald said the Treaty, “led to a sectarian state in the six counties and a deeply conservative state in the 26 counties.” 

McDonald added: “We can right the wrongs of the Treaty by building a new and united Ireland, a home to all of our people regardless of background or identity.”

Asked today about McDonald’s comments and whether the Irish government should be  working towards Irish unity, An Taoiseach said past events should not be used for current political purposes. 

“My appeal, to politicians of all descriptions, is don’t use the Treaty, don’t use past events for your own current day political objectives. That is doing history a total disservice,” he said. 

Martin added that all those who negotiated the Treaty were “great people”.

“These were in my view great people, irrespective of what position they took. It’s extraordinary to see young people of a fledgling state go in there with some of the most experienced negotiators of long-standing from the biggest empire in the world at the time and they did it with honour, dignity and integrity,” he said. 

Éamonn De Valera, the founder of Martin’s Fianna Fáil party, famously did not attend the Treaty negotiations in 1921 despite being President of the Republic in the eyes of the Dáil. 

Asked today does he believe De Valera should have travelled, Martin laughed and said he would “leave that to the judgement of history”. 

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    Mute John Walker
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:23 PM

    Chris Evans more than twice as much as Graham Norton!? There’s more than sexism going on there!

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    Mute Tricia Golden
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:49 PM

    @John Walker: You should bear in mind that that doesn’t include his talk show.

    The BBC pay his Production Company which then pays him (or he pays himself…….. if you know what I mean).

    I suspect that’s a damn GOOD salary over and above his actual BBC salary.

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    Mute Emmet Dillane
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:50 PM

    @John Walker:
    Chris Evans is an irrepressible genius, he’s ginger, he’s original, creative, cutting edge, climbing the greasy pole of stardom trough sheer force of personality, money is not his goal, he’s already blown 80 million on cars and booze, when he began dating Billy Piper he bought her a silver Ferrari full of roses, she couldn’t even drive, Chris is car crash TV, when he gets bored he goes drinking and gets sacked then starts again, Chris personifies the idiom ‘You can’t keep a good man down’.
    Compared to Chris Graham Norton is pure tedium.

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    Mute Tensing Norgay
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:21 PM

    @John Walker: being a good negotiator?

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    Mute Conor Byrne
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:38 PM

    “The BBC’s highest paid woman is Claudia Winkleman”

    Who? Exactly.

    I 100% agree with equal work for equal pay. But you can’t compare salaries for people who have different levels of exposure, higher ratings, and different jobs on different shows. That’s not comparing like with like.

    The only fair comparison here would be to compare 2 BBC news readers – since they actually have the same job on the same show & do the same amount of work.

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    Mute Boyne Sharky
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    Jul 19th 2017, 6:56 PM

    @Conor Byrne: When you look at the likes of Chris Evans and Graham Norton who both had successful radio and TV shows last year when these contracts were paid. The large salaries they can command are based soley around their personalities rather than something like a large popular show like Come Dancing which, though popular, is not centered around any one personality.
    For this reason the “stars” can command the big money and, rightly or wrongly, that’s just the way it is. Inevitably this will be compared to America where the “Stars” can command many times these salaries and women like Oprah and Judge Judy Sheindlin earn vast sums us mere mortals can only dream of. It’s not sexism, it’s just business, and the entertainment business is cut throat.

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    Mute Nick Allen
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:25 PM

    Jaysus, when Tubridy and Duffy and company hear about this there is bound to be a strike. They aren’t on anywhere near that cash

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:38 PM

    @Nick Allen: per head of listenership and population, the BBC presenters are on less than their RTE counterparts.

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    Mute Kieran OKeeffe
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:39 PM

    @Nick Allen:
    Given the difference in population,shouldn’t Duffy,Untidy,etc be on a fifteenth of what Norton(a real presenter ) makes..around 60,000 seems fair..

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:42 PM

    @Dermot Lane: Yes – but there are dozens and dozens of stations, from regional to specialist.

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    Mute Aine
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    Jul 19th 2017, 3:51 PM

    @Nick Allen: the Tv licence isnt been used to pay the BBC crew tho, and there would be a slightly higher viewship for the BBC than RTE

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    Mute Dermot Lane
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    Jul 19th 2017, 5:16 PM

    @Fank Pulman: true but Evans gets 15 million on BBC

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    Mute Dub_Right
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:22 PM

    That’s F ing Scandalous!!!

    Chris Evans £2million++ He should be pushed onto some obscure satellite tv channel somewhere not paid that much for nothing!

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    Mute Fank Pulman
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:29 PM

    @Dub_Right: Evans entertains over twice the population of our country – everyday on BBC radio, as well as a good few here!!

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    Mute NeilGoochFerriter
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:31 PM

    @Dub_Right: i dont like him at all, he was a disaster on top gear but he has 15 million listeners !

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    Mute Ben Gunn
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:50 PM

    @Dub_Right: Probably includes his Top Gear contract for the year in question.

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    Mute Eddie Byrne
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:54 PM

    @Fank Pulman: Evans has over 15 million listeners.

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    Mute John Ryan
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:32 PM

    Claudia Winkleman earns almost half a million £££ per year – utterly mind boggling.

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    Mute Thinck
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    Jul 19th 2017, 2:03 PM

    @John Ryan:

    She spends almost as much on makeup to be fair

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    Mute Nick Allen
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:29 PM

    I see Graham’s agent negotiating a healthy pay rise at the next contract discussions

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    Mute Tricia Golden
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:50 PM

    @Nick Allen: Doubt it, he get’s paid for his talk show via his Production company. His BBC salary would be for things like Eurovision etc.

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    Mute Tweety McTweeter
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:56 PM

    Probably the best broadcasting organisation in the world. It won’t stop wingers here winging though.

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    Mute raymond grehan
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:57 PM

    How much is Bana of Aleppo on? The young girl ‘tweeting’ from Aleppo in Syria about the bad man Assad; a story pushed by the BBC and most other MSM? All the while her father was a local nusra man(terrorist) and her mother, an English teacher, put words in the little girls tweets and used her daughter as a propaganda tool against the Assad Government.
    http://21stcenturywire.com/2017/07/18/uk-column-news-western-media-continue-to-cash-in-on-the-bana-of-aleppo-myth/
    The BBC have always done lite entertainment well. Well done. However on the other side, they have been instrumental in the death and destruction of millions of people across the world in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria, as lead propagandists for the industrial military complex of the UK and US and their allies.

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    Mute Sorcha Hendry
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:09 PM

    I’m sorry but what does Chris Evans actually do for the BBC?

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    Mute Tweety McTweeter
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:46 PM

    @Sorcha Hendry:

    Brings in 15 million listeners to his radio show.

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    Mute Ó Connmhaigh
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    Jul 19th 2017, 3:24 PM

    Actually, it’s just over 9 million, but I take your point.

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    Mute Type17
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    Jul 19th 2017, 7:35 PM

    @Tweety McTweeter: Good radio show it is too – I’m still listening to BBC Radio 2 all day at work (except for Jeremy Vine, podcasts fill that gap) since last Christmas – great music choice (with minimal repeats!), the lack of sports news and, especially, ads, means I would never go back to Irish commercial radio. The pay mentions today may be high in some cases, but is more than justified in most, especially when competing with attempted poaching by the commercial sector.

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    Mute John Conroy
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:28 PM

    Got to love Linekar. King of the cheesy pun.

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    Mute Nick Allen
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:27 PM

    @methodical2020:

    The BBC make some great programs for both TV and radio

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    Mute Meanderingsz
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    Jul 19th 2017, 4:08 PM

    Is nobody gonna mention Stephen Nolan being one of the highest paid in the UK 400-499,000 per year!?! You know Nolan, the fat guy on BBC NI that shouted at a politician via video link on that Miriam Callaghan show a while back…How is his wage justified?

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    Mute Chauncey Gardiner
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    Jul 19th 2017, 6:19 PM

    @Meanderingsz: He broadcasts every week day on BBC Radio Ulster, BBC Radio 5 Live from Thursday to Sunday and presents his own live TV show from Belfast!
    Happily his weight doesn’t effect the excellent content of his shows.

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    Mute Shane Cormican
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:20 PM

    Jaysus Ryan Turbidity is a bargain – sponsored by RTE

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    Mute just readin
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:27 PM

    How can RTE keep our stars , when the BBC is paying ‘proper’ salaries ? Please dont send this article to Tubbs or Marian ….

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    Mute Jonathan Stapleton
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:22 PM

    That’s Racist

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    Mute Chief
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:25 PM

    @Jonathan Stapleton: The other BBC.

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    Mute Diarmuid
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:53 PM

    LOL! Comments of the week.

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    Mute Anastasia
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    Jul 19th 2017, 4:01 PM

    Chris Evans and Graham Norton worth every pound

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    Mute Quentin Moriarty
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    Jul 19th 2017, 12:58 PM

    Is it any wonder the toothy chap can buy Ferraris at 20 million a pop

    The mind boggles

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    Mute Mary Murphy
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    Jul 19th 2017, 3:19 PM

    When will we see how much we pay our creaturs?? And when will they get reasonable rates?

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    Mute Daniel Murray
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    Jul 19th 2017, 1:43 PM

    The real question here is who the hell is Jermey Vine?

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    Mute Type17
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    Jul 19th 2017, 7:41 PM

    @Daniel Murray: BBC Radio 2 show between 12 and 2 weekdays. I listen to Radio 2 every day at work, but I skip his slot with podcasts – not my scene, but he’s obviously popular enough in the UK.

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    Mute Ken Pepper
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    Jul 19th 2017, 6:19 PM

    And linekar still feels the need to advertise crisps

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    Mute Bramley Hawthorne
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    Jul 19th 2017, 7:57 PM

    Gary Lineker on £1.7 million? There are footballers who…. oh wait. Sorry.

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    Mute Brian O Reilly
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    Jul 19th 2017, 8:14 PM

    Pity they couldn’t have a Transfer Market like in the Soccer Leagues,

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    Mute George Salter
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    Jul 19th 2017, 2:27 PM

    Turgid Tubridy needs to go there to get paid commensurate to his talents…

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    Mute Type17
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    Jul 20th 2017, 8:02 AM

    @George Salter: Guess why all the “stars” are still at RTE… actually, RT stood in for Graham Norton on his BBC Radio 2 show last year – not sure how it went, but I see that Alan Carr and Mel Sykes are doing it this year.

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    Mute Johnnathan Biskalero
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    Jul 19th 2017, 11:58 PM

    two fools to be honest……victims of ZIONIST extremism !!

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    Mute Niall Cunneen
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    Jul 20th 2017, 2:06 PM

    How the hell can the BBC even employ that human disaster zone that is Victoria Derbyshire ? Every single human tragedy story is jumped upon and squeezed for every bit of drama and sensational aspect she can find….She,and her production team,are purveyors of human suffering and couldn’t give the tiniest of damns about the people in terrible situations that they cruelly exploit

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    Mute WilhelminaMCallaghan
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    Jul 19th 2017, 8:03 PM

    Who cares . I for one haven’t heard of any of them in years . Let them off

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    Mute Johnnathan Biskalero
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    Jul 19th 2017, 11:21 PM

    to be honest what person in thier right mind give a f** about these two muppets ? seriously ? c’mon journal surely your better than this shiiiiiiiiite !!!

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