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Updated at 3pm
A FINE GAEL MEP has said the government saved Irish taxpayers €10.3 billion by renegotiating the terms of the Troika bailout programme.
Brian Hayes said that at the start of the programme, in 2011, the department of finance estimated national debt repayments would be €28.7 billion for the years 2012, 2013 and 2014 – whereas the actual amount paid for these years was €22.29 billion, accounting for savings of €6.4 billion.
Four years ago, the estimate of debt repayment for 2015 was €11.3 billion, while the latest forecast was €7.4 billion – a downward revision of €3.9 billion.
“Altogether the figures show that the government will save €10.3 billion due to four years of steady renegotiation of the Troika bailout programme, including the promissory note deal and the early IMF repayment deal. This is money we will never have to repay,” Hayes said.
The Dublin MEP stated that “prudent negotiation” had led to a “much improved” situation for taxpayers and low borrowing costs for the country.
We have come through some very tough years and a lot of pain but now confidence has returned to the Irish economy and our debt situation is now sustainable. The NTMA can now take advantage of the low interest rates and is able to manage Irish debt in a very effective way.
“By replacing the promissory note with a cheaper funding model, we will have to borrow €20 billion less over the next decade as a result. We have delivered interest savings of over €10 billion and reduced by €20 billion the amount of money the State will have to borrow over the next decade by extending the maturities on our European loans,” Hayes added.
In February, the former IMF chief of mission to Ireland Ashoka Mody told Newstalk the government had “absolutely” missed out on an opportunity to strike a debt writedown deal with the Troika in 2010.
Politicians are continuing to look at ways for ECB officials to “engage” with the banking inquiry after the bank’s president Mario Draghi said officials cannot meet the committee “owing to the ECB’s accountability to European institutions and primarily to the European Parliament”.
The inquiry is aiming to establish the events that led to the Troika bailout.
Greece
In February, Finance Minister Michael Noonan told Bloomberg Greece should follow Ireland’s lead of negotiating its way through financial crisis – rather than demanding the “nuclear option” of writing off debt or ditching the euro.
Over the weekend, Greek Finance Minister Yanis Varoufakis confirmed the country would make its next loan repayment to the International Monetary Fund, due on Thursday.
This followed reports that Greek officials have been drawing up a plan to take over the country’s banks and re-introduce the drachma.
First posted at 11am.
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Seriously?
“The government saved over €10bn by complaining to the Troika ”
Eh, no. Why doesn’t the headline reflect the article i.e. A fine gael MEP is CLAIMING that 10 billion was saved.
Nothing was actually saved. The terms were changed and 60 billion added which our grandkids will still be repaying. Its like remortgaging your home, increasing the amount that will be repaid in the end, and adding decades to the term of the mortgage, but then claiming you saved money because the monthly repayment is slightly lower.
Extremely poor journalism guys.
Hmmm who should I believe? A sitting MEP with knowledge of the situation or WereSpammin? It’s a toughy…..
truly remarkable achievement by FG. Does all good news upset you? :D
‘Were jamming’ with his Shinnomics.
they call it ‘sums’
“This is money we will never have to repay”!? Do you think they repeat their own lies so much they actually believe them at this stage? We shouldn’t have to repay a penny!! Not a word from that muppet since he got his cushy seat and now this. Enda is in full preperation mode for when the eurostat test fails and it emerges he’s been lying about callinan. Election before the summer please.
exactly Niall we won’t have to repay it thanks to the great enda kenny :)
Niall, we still have to repay it. The money is still owed, only in another 10 years. That means we have another 10 years of paying interest to look forward to and we still have to pay the originally owed amount anyway.
There is no saving, only short-term easing on the budget. The government are claiming that we will save in the end because inflation *should* reduce the effective amount we will have to pay compared to total state income when the final bill eventually does come around, but this doesn’t factor in the negative inflation rate in the Eurozone at the moment.
Patjoe
I think you are actually a shinner. You talk such obvious nonsense that fg would be embarassed if you really supported them.
Top cat. Brien doesn’t give impartial advice, you forget that he’s batting for fine Gael. If another party was in power Brien would no doubt be saying that the deal was awful.
patjoejoe123 + Top Cat. How much do you get paid?? curious
Yup he’s making a claim… And the journal have gone ahead and stuck that nice little table in there with all those sums that add up nicely to substantiate just such a claim.
Meanwhile your guy, when confronted with the fact there’s no way to make his numbers add up, freely admitted that he can’t handle mathematics.
Yup he’s making a claim… And the journal have gone ahead and stuck that nice little table in there with all those sums that add up nicely to substantiate just such a claim.
Meanwhile your guy, when confronted with the fact there’s no way to make his numbers add up, freely admitted that he can’t handle mathematics.
Drew, that table doesn’t substantiate anything as it doesn’t contain the full facts and figures. I don’t see anywhere the predicted future payments over the course of the entire loan period as these are conveniently omitted. No doubt because these predicted figures would show that there is a net rise in the total amount we have to pay rather than a saving.
It’s like me telling my bank that I want to pay interest-only for the next five years and then claiming I’ve made a net saving over the course of the 5 years when, in reality, I’ve merely extended my mortgage period and increased the total I’ll have to pay.
Drew
It doesnt matter how many times you say it. It doesnt make it true.
How quickly we forget that the €64bn black hole was created by Fianna Fáil. What Hayes highlights is accurate. Assuming we’re stuck with paying it back, €10bn HAS been knocked off our bill.
“Assuming we’re stuck with paying it back, €10bn HAS been knocked off our bill.”
No, it hasn’t been and this has been explained multiple times. What Ireland has done is deferred the payments until a later date, this means we have extended the period that we will have to pay interest. The net effect is that this deal will cost the exchequer MORE, not LESS. The only thing it has achieved is to ease the immediate impact on our budget as the loans will mature at later dates.
Propaganda before elections???
“A FINE GAEL MEP has said the government saved Irish taxpayers €10.3 billion “
WE CALL IT ELECTIONEERING…
Headline should read “100bn could have been saved by NOT talking to the Troika in the first place”… i.e. by not being forced into guaranteeing private bank funds
And where do you suggest we would go for funding to keep the state operating?
If they were fulfilling their remit, instead of blackmailing smaller countries, the ECB would have to step in and act as lender of last resort. That is supposed to be their function, rather than merkels private piggybank.
10 billion is a remarkable achievement
We may not have needed a bailout when we did were it not for the ridiculous €440 billion blanket guarantee announced by Brian Cowen which the monetary markets knew Ireland couldn’t afford. No doubt we would have eventually needed a bailout from Europe but arguably not to the extent of what we eventually had to take out.
If only it were true
Roughly translated, he means to say “we have committed our childrens futures to this debt instead of trying to get a write down from our overlords. Its not great for the next generation but at least we look good for the next election”
Even Greece isn’t seeking a write down. They want longer repayments and lower interest rates, exactly what we achieved, without all the fuss.
Powerabbey look at the wages and pensions in the civil service, the same with the HSE, COUNCILS, Consultants, etc…
Everytime money changes hands it is taxed, also if we had our own currency we could balance our own books, create manufacturing as that cuts borrowing, the more exports the less we borrow but our hands are tied with using and not owning the euro…
Could he expand on the tough years’ and pain suffered by our tds…
Reduction in number of TDs, cuts to TDs salaries, massive cut in the number of councillors, attempt to abolish the Seanad, no more ministerial cars, two cuts to Taoiseach and Ministers pay…
It amazes me that some lefties think Ireland’s problems are somewhat unique. It amazes me how unique and untravelled and unworldly they can be! The world in 2015 is what it is. Ireland can thrive as a little capitalist nugget. I think the silent majority knows this.
We do know this :)
Bit harsh on left handed folk but I suppose you know best.
Love the way Hayes spins in billions from his European comfort seat, Come back to your base in Dublin and sacrifice your monthly salary for a stint on 39hr min wage, then tell the truth.
They saved us nothing,It was not our debt in the first place.
Its all a scam anyway
Developer makes money…developer and friends pocket the profit.
Developer loses money….developer declares bankruptcy and taxpayer pays the debt.
Few years later developer comes back and buys property at a knock down price from nama….developer makes money but doesnt pay back the debt.
Commenter reads article.
Commenter dismisses article.
Commenter posts about unrelated topic.
Commenter gets green thumbs.
Sub-commenter highlights this.
Sub-commenter gets red thumbs
Developer/banking debt is very much related silent minority.
Sub-commenter confusingly pretends to be unaware Govt changed the terms in order to reduce the payouts during their term by adding more to debt incurred by future generations, while accusing everyone else of ignoring reality.
If this was actually true they would have been shouting it from the roof tops in 2011.
They were. Fianna Fáil claimed their deal was the best on offer. They were proven wrong when the new government came in and made the savings listed above.
I don’t see any savings there Silent, only deferred payments which will incur a larger total amount of interest paid over time.
Nonsense, does anyone on this site understand the time value of money and the role of inflation in this equation?
With inflation at or near zero and the real prospect of deflation?
Ben, there is actual deflation in the Eurozone at the moment and it has been that way for the last quarter.
Silent, if you read my comments you’ll see that I have made mention of the impact of inflation which the government is hoping will reduce the impact of the deferred payments. You’ll also note that I rebutted this concept as, right now, the Euro is showing no signs of generating any sort of inflation. In fact, the Euro has seen negligible inflation since this crisis began.
Seamus Og, these figures were reported in the papers. Unfortunately at every bit of good news, some unemployed troll who spends his days convincing himself of hopelessness while whinging online, will say that it’s all spin.
Spin spin spin and more spin .
the figures speak for themselves. absolute facts. well done FG :)
Actually the figures don’t speak for themselves. There’s no details as to the amount of interest we will have to pay extra for extending the loan repayments. It’s the exact same as paying interest-only on your bank loan or mortgage, your monthly repayments go down but the total owed goes up.
Correct Jason. 10 years worth of dodgy prom note repayments were turned into 40 years worth of sovereign debt which could easily cost us double in the end. This is being spun as a ‘saving’ for their election campaign.
The list of FG achievements in such a short period of time is truly remarkable. keep up the fantastic work :)
I don’t think the interest on the Anglo promissory note was changed, just its maturation date. (2038)
So, less paid per-year, but more overall.
The IMF, were the only ones happy to accept early repayment without interest penalty.
This is where much of the savings will occur.
The EU loan & the bilateral loans from the UK/Sweden remain unchanged I think?
Business Car
I don’t think EU loans have being looked at yet. I believe the UK loan is already on good terms with low interest.
Creative accounting and spin soundbites from FG.
The savings quoted are on predicted “repayments” not reductions in total capital to be paid. In other words the money still has to be paid, these are not savings.
The whole European banking system was a pyramid scheme and we are the chumps that got left carrying the can.
If Ireland Greece and Portugal stood in solidarity we would get these debts written down. Instead sneaky FG stick the knife into Greece as soon as they get the chance to show teacher Trokia what good boys they are. In return Trokia agree not to rubbish FG claims to have “saved” billions.
The private bank debt of Anglo and IN is crippling this country and will do for many many years. This is Noonans fault….he could have done a write down deal deal rather than capitulate without even a squeak. Noonan has tried to make it difficult to avoid paying the private gamblers….but we can still get a deal if we have someone with backbone to fight our corner.
http://thechatteringmagpie14.blogspot.ie/2014/12/ireland-has-just-destroyed-500m-who.html
This fight ain’t over…support the Ballyhea Protest.
180, 360, 540, 720… Spin cycle government…
B.S.
I prefer to concentrate on how much this government has cost the taxpayers, instead of listening to spin and waffle from Brian Hayes.
fastest growing economy in europe :)
http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2015/03/16/auf-wiedersehen-never
“When you hear politicians talking about the Irish economy, and saying we are the fastest growing economy in Europe, it is meaningless, because we aren’t a European economy at all. We are an Anglo/American economy, with a European exchange somehow grafted onto us.”
You know who’s trailing just behind Ireland’s predicted 3.5% growth? Fantastic economies like Malta (3.3%) Poland (3.2%) and Lithuania (3.0%). It’s just about enough growth to get us back to where we were before the crash within another 5 years.
if true jammin thats even better news. well done FG :)
Actually it’s growing at a sufficient enough rate to exceed the pre-crisis peak this year.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/economy-is-on-course-to-reach-precrisis-peak-31063038.html
But you know, don’t let facts stand in the way of all the doom and gloom bullshite….
“But business lobby group Ibec pointed out that company wealth is still lower than pre-2007 levels, that many households and firms still do not feel the effects of the recovery and that the gains are centred mainly in urban areas.”
“But Ibec said the economy remained 5.7pc below its 2007 peak in value terms, with households and firms in many parts of the country not experiencing the recovery.”
Two quotes from your own link which show it isn’t as rosy as you’d like it to be. GDP isn’t the sole indicator of whether the economy has actually recovered or not.
Patjoejoe, built on playing the numbers with this government pawning and privatising our infrastructure, on RTE news a few days ago it was stated that the unemployment numbers are really 86% higher than they are but the rest are on government schemes but are still unemployed, how is that growth or are you only referring to Dublin?
Its alright Ireland you just can put it on the troika credit card, you can pay it over the next 50 years. now you got the people to roll over to pay more taxes your grand, you can be sure there is a election its way sooner than we think.
Borrow now and pawn our infrastructure, so we will have to pay with blood to buy it back later on.
Michael Sands
This says it all
https://youtu.be/yTbdnNgqfs8
Our criminal politicians have sold your country.
Mighty stuff. Any chance that Dick Turpin tax, the USC, on people who bother to get up in the morning to go out to work and contribute can be abolished. Sincerely Yours, The Taxpayer
Taxpayer “repay” ??? repay what ? I , nor any other taxpayers ever borrowed anything from the Troika ?. All the bondholders in Switzerland Germany Holland (Credit Suisse , Helvetia Insurance , UBS, Deutsche Bank etc.) are laughing at Ireland from a height… I wish I could lend unsecured money to a bank and then get it back with interest from someone else when the bank cant pay…. Great business to be in … you win , even when you lose…
Jeez thanks guys! Out of a matter of interest, where was this 10 billion spent? Because if it was paid towards the Troika, then that really doesn’t count. Masterbating ain’t the same as sex if you get me drift…….
Scrolls comments…..sees patjoejoe back trolling…..logs out.
Cheerio journal.
More “good news”, just like the “game changing” understanding of a few years ago, or the brilliant move of “getting us out of the bailout” by signing up for years of loans at 3-5 percent when the ECB rate is under 1percent. I feel like Cool Hand Luke when the boss was being so good to him. I was hoping I wouldn’t have to listen to the Tallaght Tory again until the next European elections, I’m not that lucky, unfortunately.
Brian Hayes a FG politician who’d believe a word he says.
heroic achievement by FG. We are all looking forward to continued prosperity during endas second term :)
Zzzzzzzzzzzz
Enda’s reelection Patjoe is not guaranteed. Only the people in his constituency get to vote for him and at the moment they ain’t loving Enda. ; )
ignore patjoe he is a sinn fein troll, just trying to rile everybody by pretending to be a devout finegael supporter. He is in fact just using this persona to show that anybody who still supports finegael has severe mental health issues. Pat is an ex ira prisoner who was happy to support the struggle to regain the six counties that finegael give away. Tiocfaidh ar la Pat.
Didn’t complain loudly enough when he was part of the government that piled 64 billion of odious bank debt onto our shoulders .
Feck off Hayes you simpering ninny .
That was Fianna Fáil. Memory as poor as that is why Ireland always re-elects them…
No Silent, Deco is perfectly correct in his statement. Fine Gael and Labour were the parties who converted the promissory notes into sovereign debt in exchange for an extension on the due-date. They were the ones who basically turned a complex form of IOU into a contractually obligated mandatory debt.
A will you stop with fianna fail. If finegael had any interest in the irish public they would have been more constructive in opposition, they would be supporting Greece in their fight for a write down, which would pave the way for an irish write down, the only reason they don’t is for finegael to save face. All finegael have done was to introduce policies that fianna fail had agreed. They are both equally greedy corrupt, arrogant and useless. Anybody who votes for either of these parties is either very stupid or very rich. They are traitors
What do the corrupt parasites really think they done the Irish people a favor !! it was these morons who put us in this position… ff opened the door fg/labor helped the eu move the loot the political parasite class are still robbing us blind….my god the neck of theses clowns
Pure b****x..more lies and goverment spin
And they would have saved more money if they told the ECB where to stick the Euro? Saying nothing about bondholders?
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/…/europeancoun…/pdf/cop_en.pdf
“Membership presupposes the candidate’s ability to take on the obligations of membership including adherence to the aims of political, economic and monetary union.”
FG/Lab have achieved nothing except further selling off of our assets and more cronyism. Hayes is as dodgy as Hogan/ Kenny &Co.
That smug puss grrrrrrrrr
Classic spin. Estimate an overly high cost, pay less, claim you “negotiated” a better deal. Unfortunately the Irish people mostly have higher IQs than our elected representatives and will see through this ever than a freshly cleaned pane of glass.
The same Brian Hayes that f**ked off to Europe because he saw the writing on the wall with FG being flushed down the drain in the next election and he could screw the taxpayer for a bit longer in Europe as an MEP.
They continued the charade after fianna fail. Full of uselessness the lot of em
I’m sure you all see that the forecast figure is going up every year, so whats not paid is probably carried over to the next year! Just more spin from a bunch of incompetent muppets before the election. Fiddling the stats.
How much do you think l will save by complaining to the government?
Expect some eejits to say they didn’t know this and because they didn’t know it, it must not be true.
This makes no reference to the fall in interest rates, for which the government gets no credit, Neither does it reference the work the Portuguese did on getting a 3 & Cut on interest rates. The Irish then got it by default. Would Mr Hayes be more specific and state one item, unrelated to interest rates, re negotiated by the Irish Government.
have your say