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IT’S BEEN A long road to Brexit – one made even more trying by the inaccurate statements made by British politicians about Ireland, politics, and the border with Northern Ireland.
There’s a lot of things in the Brexit process that are up for debate: whether the backstop is needed and what exactly it entails, being just one. But some things we’re quite sure of – like that Leo Varadkar and the Sinn Féin party are most definitely not in cahoots.
And let’s be clear: we’re not expecting British politicians to know every aspect of Ireland’s history – or any other country’s history.
But if you’re going to try to offer a solution to the Irish border issue or comment on Irish politics with an ounce of authority, you should be informed on the issues.
Here are some of the gems we’ve had since the process began.
No one uses the Irish border
While still in the role as British Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson was recorded talking about Brexit and foreign affairs at a private gathering. The audio was obtained by Buzzfeed News, who then published it in an article on 8 June, detailing all the questionable things he’d said about a whole spectrum of nations.
Among his comments, were that the UK government’s concerns about customs arrangements post-Brexit was “pure millenium bug” stuff. On Northern Ireland, he added:
[Northern Ireland] is so small and there are so few firms that actually use that border regularly, it’s just beyond belief that we’re allowing the tail to wag the dog in this way. We’re allowing the whole of our agenda to be dictated by this folly.
“So few” is obviously a subjective term, so we’ll give you the figures here and let you decide on whether they’re worthy of the UK government’s attention.
There are around 208 road border crossings between the Republic and Northern Ireland: at least 30,000 people cross the border everyday. Trucks in the drinks industry alone make 23,000 border crossings a year.
The farming community has been repeatedly described as an “all-island” economy, meaning firms have assets both north and south of the border, and would be wiped out, in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
Added to that are fears that young people in Donegal will have their options for accessing third level education limited if a hard border was put up, as many students live at home and commute to Derry to study at the University of Ulster.
Let’s go back to the Troubles
Usually when the phrase “just like the Troubles” is used, it’s in the sense that we shouldn’t go back to that era.
But not with Jacob Rees Mogg. On 25 August, the Conservative MP for north-east Somerset said that we should replicate the custom posts, officers and police we had along the border during the Troubles after Brexit:
It would be possible to continue with historic arrangements to ensure there wasn’t a great loophole in the way people could get into the UK to leave us in just as bad a position as we are in.
There would be our ability, as we had during the Troubles, to have people inspected. It’s not a border that everyone has to go through every day. But of course for security reasons during the Troubles we kept a very close eye on the border to try stop gun running and things like that.
It’s not inconsistent to have a border that people pass through that you’re keeping an eye on.
Speaking of loopholes, here’s a few in that suggestion. Not everyone would be checked, says Rees Mogg, so how would you decide who to check? By how they’re dressed, or the colour of their skin?
Boris Johnson suggested in the audio mentioned above that there would be a system like an Oyster card or a Leap card, where you tagged in and out to get across the border. But there are at least two big problems with that: that isn’t a frictionless border, it’s just friction-lite, and the second being one or Leap card can be used by anyone freely, as there’s no name or photo ID on them.
When a border first went up in Ireland in 1924, it only had customs checks. But extremists saw it as a symbol of UK occupation in Ireland, a symbol of division, and began targeting custom posts. This led to police protection, and armed guards at the border.
Brexit is all about the Irish presidential election
In November 2017, a few days before the backstop was first mentioned, Conservative MP Iain Duncan Smith appeared on Channel 4 News and said that Ireland was being tough in Brexit negotiations because of the presidential election.
A lot of things are in the making on this one. There’s an election going on in Ireland…
It was then pointed out that an election was now off the table due to political developments (Frances Fitzgerald had just resigned as Justice Minister of the scandal unearthed bty garda whistleblower Maurice McCabe).
Duncan Smith continued:
Now it’s suddenly become an issue because the Irish, for political reasons internally, presidential elections, disputes between the two elements of the same party, they suddenly laid this on.
Unionists don’t actually vote for nationalist politicians
This one is a little different in that it’s an admission of ignorance, rather than an assertion that is later proved to be incorrect.
In an interview with The House, Karen Bradley said that she hadn’t realised how elections were fought in Northern Ireland prior to her appointment, and that her understanding of the region was from 1990s.
I had no idea how wonderful Northern Ireland was. I was slightly scared of Northern Ireland because of my impression and images from 20 years ago. That is not the place that it is today.
She also said that she didn’t fully understand the political climate in the North. At the time of her appointment, the Stormont Assembly had been absent for over a year.
“I didn’t understand things like when elections are fought for example in Northern Ireland, people who are nationalists don’t vote for unionist parties and vice-versa.
So, the parties fight for the election within their own community. Actually, the unionist parties fight the elections against each other in unionist communities and nationalists in nationalist communities. That’s a very different world from the world I came from.
English people get Irish passports
Speaking to Stephen Nolan’s show in October this year, Andrew Bridgen showed that he didn’t understand the difference between the Common Travel Area and citizenship.
The Conservative MP (there’s a pattern here) got confused when trying to explain how they would ensure that Northern Ireland wouldn’t be treated differently to the rest of the UK, but also allow them to apply for Irish citizenship, which would be EU citizenship.
“That’s the Common Travel Area,” Bridgen said.
We do have the right to go to Ireland, don’t we? As an English person I’ve the right to go to Ireland and ask for a passport, can’t I?
There’s a reciprocal agreement where I can go to Ireland and ask for an Irish passport, and someone from Ireland can come to the UK and ask for a British passport. We have that system, that’s the system we have, isn’t it?
When asked if he thought he was entitled to an Irish passport because he is English, he said yes, and when asked where that right comes from, he answered the Common Travel Area.
Nolan said that there was still a lot to be done before MPs vote on a final Brexit deal. His guest on the same show Ulster Unionist Party’s Steve Aiken, replied:
“The level of knowledge among MPs about Northern Ireland is shockingly low. I have to spend a lot of time doing, and it’s very unfortunate, is briefing UK government civil servants who should be much more aware of what happens in Northern Ireland.”
Speaking at a Hibernian Law Journal lecture about the legal implications of Brexit, Professor of Human Rights Law in London School of Economics Conor Gearty said that there was a “tremendous civic duty” on the Irish living in the UK to “educate the English”.
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How did we ever let them rule us.
@Sean Conway: well they had longbows when we didn’t and then they had muskets when we didn’t. Eventually they had gunboats when we didn’t but we were so fed up at that point we pushed through.
@Sean Conway: we still do; we speak their language over our own, we watch their football league teams over our own , we watch their tv shows over our own.
@Sean Conway: Britain, Troika or the EU lol. It’s in our nature…
@Ross Fehily: To be fair now rté isn’t worth watching.
@Sean Conway: the Irish didn’t . They where not interested in independence. They where too busy out conquering the world along side their neighbours.
@Ross Fehily:
They are all things we now choose to do in fairness.
@Ross Fehily: judging by the what’s on show in the journal comments section on a daily basis, we do not speak (or spell) their language
@Paul Smith: Gee “Paul”, apart from this rather tepid consolation from me….no responses.
Ah well…Happy New Year to you me aul spud.
@Ross Fehily: what we got instead of British rule was a country thrown back to the Middle Ages much like the “modern”Muslim world,where women had to be “churched “after childbirth And females could not enter a chapel without a covered head.hail to the great Irish men like Bertie,and Haughey the Italian mafia would be green with envy
@Ross Fehily: English is a West Germanic language brought to Britain in the 5th to 7th century by the Anglo-Saxon settlers.
News flash the average UKish person calls Ireland southern ireland and the vast majority think that Ireland is part of the so called united kingdom
@Eoin: lived in Britain for a time, can confirm most of them haven’t a clue. They asked me to explain why we have right to decode whether or not they should be in Europe, how dare we, their subordinates, make this decision on their behalf, we are the smaller country in the Union. An actual quote with nods of agreement in the local launderette in rural Wales…..I just stood open mouthed. Not all are like that but that was a special day….
@Natalie O’Brien Hughes: Most people across the water couldn’t care less about Ireland . They have absolutely no interest in Ireland what so ever . On the other hand the Irish are completely obsessed with Britain . I mean how many stories on the a Journal are about Britain . Ireland never became independent in 1922 they just changed a flag on a pole .
@Paul Smith: Ireland are dependent of Britain and what ever Britain decides to do Ireland will have to do the same.
@Paul Smith: that’s the part people have to understand they don’t care a small Ireland with a population 1/2 of London
@Natalie O’Brien Hughes: It really is incredibly the ‘shaigite ‘ we have to listen to sometimes ‘ glad you made it out Nataile its one to tell the grandchildren some day
@Paul Smith: well ive been in outside of ireland for 10 years now and any UKish person ive met on my traveles knows that Ireland is at the heart of the so called united kingdom and they do care
@Natalie O’Brien Hughes: I no Irish people in England who would never move back here
@Paul Smith: You seem to be the person who is most obsessed. A wannabe brit.
@Eoin: just take a little step back northern Ireland is part of UK why would they not call the office her part southern ? Don’t think it’s meant as an insult I no a few yank who still call it EIRE
Can’t believe that guy believed uk people are entitled to Irish passports and vice verse. Truly mindboggling !
@TradingDuck: most Irish people where up till the thev1980s
@bmul: So? He’s only 30 years out of date. Is that ok?
Public Schoolboy Toffs who are all cousins with no concept of the real world whatsoever.
Dosent suprise me, I mean the majority of brits voted to leave the EU! Their politicians are an accurate representation of the United kingdom!
@Danny Ennis: 37% of those eligible to vote voted leave
@bmul: no, 37% voted, of which 52% voted to leave. Which us actually only 19% of the electorate.
Imagine a decision as big as this being dictated by 19% ??
@John Moylan: There was a 72% turnout. So it’s quite correct to say 37% of eligible voters were in favour of Brexit.
It’s also correct to say that 28% didn’t care and were happy to let others make the decision for them, whatever the turnout might be. So saying that there were 52% in favour of Brexit is quite reasonable.
Let’s keep taking the moral high ground here and twist the knife some more. It can only be beneficial to us.
@MK76: showing your true colors Tory boy. If this happened to be a SF article you would be twisting multiple knives.
@Harry Corry: So tell me Harry, what’s the upside of continually twisting that knife? Does it make all the scars of the past somewhat less painful and/or does it put us in a better position going forward?
Try see past two inches in front of your face for once.
@Harry Corry: it couldn’t be a SF article, it’s about people who take up the jobs they are elected and paid to do, however badly in some cases.
@John Mulligan:
It has to be said your a class A clown, Displaying your zero comprehension of the northern Ireland issue here impresses no one.
The most ridiculous thing said I’d brexit means brexit ! Then never explaining what it means because it means different things to different people
@bmul: it might mean navy gun ships in the channel to stop migrants from Calais
@Bluey: and that’s only to he start
Hilariously deluded Tories
Brexit outa Ireland!
Everyone has the right to apply for an Irish Passport, it doesn’t mean that they will get one.
@John Fairclough: good point!
ignorance is bliss.
An awful lot of Irish people are unaware what a United Ireland would actually mean. Probably a 10% increase in their income tax rate for starters. The subsidies provided from UK to NIrl are incredible.
@sean de paore: You don’t know what a united Ireland would mean. No one does. There is no firm proposal, no budget and no plan.
But there will be before there is a vote on a detailed proposal…unlike some other referenda I could mention.
@sean de paore: t
They could always let these big companies in more or less tax free as we do.
I mean your not for one moment saying that we are any better educated than them.
Are you?
To paraphrase an english foreign affairs secretary, ‘the english should just go away and shut up’.
Why only educate the English ? What about the Scots and Welsh .
@bmul: pretty sure the Scots know.
@Dave O’Keeffe: what that they caused as many problems as the English ?
@bmul: because England call the shots. The welsh copy and the Scots are to scared not to follow.
So offended
@Bluey: not offended just bewildered
Well let’s face it the Irish know feck all about their own history . Irish history revolves around 1916 to 1923 . The famine and penal laws . That’s about it . 800 yrs of history in a nutshell.
@Paul Smith: so you’re not an Irish troll then?
@Paul Smith: You wha???
@TamuMassif2019: The Irish… not us Irish!
@Paul Smith: scutter, and uneducated scutter at that, remember we drove the English out, the bull McCabe and his kind,
@Paul Smith: the irish holocost you mean or ethnic cleansing from 1845 to 1850 over half of the regiments in the british army where here over 200,000 soldiers to take food from the mounths of crying children at gun point
@Eoin: Over 200000 soldiers in Ireland in 1840 . Well that’s my point proven . The British army in 1840 was only 120000 strong . 50000 was deploy to their colonies. 30000 of those where in India . Imperialist British army was tiny . https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14218909
@Eoin: more than 1irish famine
@Paul Smith: awww i know Paul, god bless the poor Brits ehh sure weren’t they only trying to hang on their colonies and those Irish were always trying to steal Ireland back.
Also in 1840 the worlds population wouldve roughly have been only around 1 billion(vs 7 billion today) so actually those numbers would make constitute quite a sizeable army.
Dont they teach you any history at squadie training or is the brainwashing complete after 17-18 years of BBC and tabloid propaganda?
@Adam O’Donoghue: Britain was a naval power . It’s imperialist army was tiny compared to other imperialist countries . Imperialists Germany , France , Austria , Russia all had armies over 800 thousand . Britain had an army of 120 thousand . The Brits had over 70 colonies . 50 thousand troops where deployed to over 70 countries . 30 thousand where in India . It doesn’t take a lot to work out that the number of British troops in some colonies could be counted in their hundreds . 40 percent of the British army in 1840 was Irish .
@Paul Smith: which famine was that in 1916 then?
@Paul Smith: has Irish History really been condensed to that period ?- in the” Irish reader” in grade school (1950′s) it had some early Irish History.- Sarsfield etc -secondary education had History from the “Fir Bolg/ Tua De Danann” right up to 1923 and taught as Gaeilge to boot!
Only for Michael Collins we’d be still under tan rule
When the Tory government, or for that matter the Labour Party, can’t even agree on what Brexit means for them, and what the required outcome is, how can there be any possibility of a real deal
They pump so much money into Northern Ireland they probably believe they are supporting the whole of the Ireland. The irony being they chose to withdraw from the EU without knowing the reality of how it was going to affect them selves
The only real concern the Irish have about Brexit is …….can they still see corrie, Eastenders and their Footie.
I’ve tried so many times but their so damn absent minded. I keep taking the horse to water but …
@Matthew Gorman: When it comes to Logic there brilliant, that’s why they called on America to help in both world wars, of course America won.!! Hiroshima.!!
When you say – “When a border first went up in Ireland in 1924, it only had customs checks. But extremists saw it as a symbol of UK occupation in Ireland, a symbol of division, and began targeting custom posts. This led to police protection, and armed guards at the border” – Do you mean extremists like Eamon DeValera and Frank Aiken? Can you tell me when their extremism became OK? Thanks.
I’m reading comments here and wondering is there a lot of people missing thumbs unable to form words out there or is it because the centre right thick people read the journal?
Can’t believe I looked up to them as a kid. Going to USA cured me. Brits ‘pulling rank ‘ in USA. and yanks swooning. Tiny island bullshit. Not an original idea in their heads
Dual citizenship should not exist! You’re either Irish or you’re not! End of story!
The British are the filth of the world. they are an insult to humanity.
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