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IT’S BEEN A long road to Brexit – one made even more trying by the inaccurate statements made by British politicians about Ireland, politics, and the border with Northern Ireland.
There’s a lot of things in the Brexit process that are up for debate: whether the backstop is needed and what exactly it entails, being just one. But some things we’re quite sure of – like that Leo Varadkar and the Sinn Féin party are most definitely not in cahoots.
And let’s be clear: we’re not expecting British politicians to know every aspect of Ireland’s history – or any other country’s history.
But if you’re going to try to offer a solution to the Irish border issue or comment on Irish politics with an ounce of authority, you should be informed on the issues.
Here are some of the gems we’ve had since the process began.
No one uses the Irish border
While still in the role as British Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson was recorded talking about Brexit and foreign affairs at a private gathering. The audio was obtained by Buzzfeed News, who then published it in an article on 8 June, detailing all the questionable things he’d said about a whole spectrum of nations.
Among his comments, were that the UK government’s concerns about customs arrangements post-Brexit was “pure millenium bug” stuff. On Northern Ireland, he added:
[Northern Ireland] is so small and there are so few firms that actually use that border regularly, it’s just beyond belief that we’re allowing the tail to wag the dog in this way. We’re allowing the whole of our agenda to be dictated by this folly.
“So few” is obviously a subjective term, so we’ll give you the figures here and let you decide on whether they’re worthy of the UK government’s attention.
There are around 208 road border crossings between the Republic and Northern Ireland: at least 30,000 people cross the border everyday. Trucks in the drinks industry alone make 23,000 border crossings a year.
The farming community has been repeatedly described as an “all-island” economy, meaning firms have assets both north and south of the border, and would be wiped out, in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
Added to that are fears that young people in Donegal will have their options for accessing third level education limited if a hard border was put up, as many students live at home and commute to Derry to study at the University of Ulster.
Let’s go back to the Troubles
Usually when the phrase “just like the Troubles” is used, it’s in the sense that we shouldn’t go back to that era.
But not with Jacob Rees Mogg. On 25 August, the Conservative MP for north-east Somerset said that we should replicate the custom posts, officers and police we had along the border during the Troubles after Brexit:
It would be possible to continue with historic arrangements to ensure there wasn’t a great loophole in the way people could get into the UK to leave us in just as bad a position as we are in.
There would be our ability, as we had during the Troubles, to have people inspected. It’s not a border that everyone has to go through every day. But of course for security reasons during the Troubles we kept a very close eye on the border to try stop gun running and things like that.
It’s not inconsistent to have a border that people pass through that you’re keeping an eye on.
Speaking of loopholes, here’s a few in that suggestion. Not everyone would be checked, says Rees Mogg, so how would you decide who to check? By how they’re dressed, or the colour of their skin?
Boris Johnson suggested in the audio mentioned above that there would be a system like an Oyster card or a Leap card, where you tagged in and out to get across the border. But there are at least two big problems with that: that isn’t a frictionless border, it’s just friction-lite, and the second being one or Leap card can be used by anyone freely, as there’s no name or photo ID on them.
When a border first went up in Ireland in 1924, it only had customs checks. But extremists saw it as a symbol of UK occupation in Ireland, a symbol of division, and began targeting custom posts. This led to police protection, and armed guards at the border.
Brexit is all about the Irish presidential election
In November 2017, a few days before the backstop was first mentioned, Conservative MP Iain Duncan Smith appeared on Channel 4 News and said that Ireland was being tough in Brexit negotiations because of the presidential election.
A lot of things are in the making on this one. There’s an election going on in Ireland…
It was then pointed out that an election was now off the table due to political developments (Frances Fitzgerald had just resigned as Justice Minister of the scandal unearthed bty garda whistleblower Maurice McCabe).
Duncan Smith continued:
Now it’s suddenly become an issue because the Irish, for political reasons internally, presidential elections, disputes between the two elements of the same party, they suddenly laid this on.
Unionists don’t actually vote for nationalist politicians
This one is a little different in that it’s an admission of ignorance, rather than an assertion that is later proved to be incorrect.
In an interview with The House, Karen Bradley said that she hadn’t realised how elections were fought in Northern Ireland prior to her appointment, and that her understanding of the region was from 1990s.
I had no idea how wonderful Northern Ireland was. I was slightly scared of Northern Ireland because of my impression and images from 20 years ago. That is not the place that it is today.
She also said that she didn’t fully understand the political climate in the North. At the time of her appointment, the Stormont Assembly had been absent for over a year.
“I didn’t understand things like when elections are fought for example in Northern Ireland, people who are nationalists don’t vote for unionist parties and vice-versa.
So, the parties fight for the election within their own community. Actually, the unionist parties fight the elections against each other in unionist communities and nationalists in nationalist communities. That’s a very different world from the world I came from.
English people get Irish passports
Speaking to Stephen Nolan’s show in October this year, Andrew Bridgen showed that he didn’t understand the difference between the Common Travel Area and citizenship.
The Conservative MP (there’s a pattern here) got confused when trying to explain how they would ensure that Northern Ireland wouldn’t be treated differently to the rest of the UK, but also allow them to apply for Irish citizenship, which would be EU citizenship.
“That’s the Common Travel Area,” Bridgen said.
We do have the right to go to Ireland, don’t we? As an English person I’ve the right to go to Ireland and ask for a passport, can’t I?
There’s a reciprocal agreement where I can go to Ireland and ask for an Irish passport, and someone from Ireland can come to the UK and ask for a British passport. We have that system, that’s the system we have, isn’t it?
When asked if he thought he was entitled to an Irish passport because he is English, he said yes, and when asked where that right comes from, he answered the Common Travel Area.
Nolan said that there was still a lot to be done before MPs vote on a final Brexit deal. His guest on the same show Ulster Unionist Party’s Steve Aiken, replied:
“The level of knowledge among MPs about Northern Ireland is shockingly low. I have to spend a lot of time doing, and it’s very unfortunate, is briefing UK government civil servants who should be much more aware of what happens in Northern Ireland.”
Speaking at a Hibernian Law Journal lecture about the legal implications of Brexit, Professor of Human Rights Law in London School of Economics Conor Gearty said that there was a “tremendous civic duty” on the Irish living in the UK to “educate the English”.
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Unbelievable that these highly skilled professionals have not had a pay rise since 2019.
Even more unbelievable some of the comments backing the management after they posted profits of 223 million last year .
the 200,000 a year they’re on isn’t enough, my heart bleeds for them
@qffaffaf affrafrfraf: that’s a captain at the very top of the pay scale who is flying his whole life. The rest are on €50,000 – €60,000
@qffaffaf affrafrfraf: only, that’s incorrect so toddle on!
@qffaffaf affrafrfraf: When you have to cherry pick, and lie by omission, you just damage your own argument and show you’re in no way sincere in your point.
@Jason Ebbs: publish the scales so
@jak: O’Leary’s boys are unionized now also so he would be going through the exact same process and wouldn’t have any choice but to take what comes. Corporate greed needs to be sorted before it gets out of hand. I support these pilot’s 100%. The rest of the Aer Lingus staff should go out with them and support their rights as employees.
@jak: is that you Michael?
It costs a lot to become a pilot also a lot of time and hard work. If you are skilled at doing something you should be well rewarded. And I for one would want my pilot happy as the proverbial pig
Aer Lingus had an operating loss of €82 million for the first quarter of this year, 800 of the militant beggars intent on bankrupting the company.
@Pat Barry: I take it your in management
@Pat Barry: There were four quarters in a year Pat, when I was going to school.
@Pat Barry:
International Airlines Group owns Aerlingus, it’s operating profit for the first three months of the year was €68m.
IAG owned BA and Luftansa awarded their pilots similar to what Aerlingus pilots are asking. Aerlingus pilots haven’t had a pay increase since 2019 – therfore technically early less than they did 5 years ago.
Aerlingus requested 15 days strike notice knowing well if the union acquiesce, then Aerlingus would not be eligible to compensate its passengers under EU law, nice touch.
Yes, clearly the Aerlingus pilots are the bad guys.
@Pat Barry: if you bothered to read the results, quarter 1 is always their least profitable quarter. Their profits for 2023 were 225 million. You can rest assured they are highly profitable but perhaps reading the facts doesn’t suit your narrative. Source – Aer Lingus website. Suggest you read it.
@Pat Barry: they regularly make a loss in the first quarter. It’s winter season. They clean up for the rest of the year. It was probably mentioned in that article where you got that €82m loss figure from. They made a huge profits last year after a loss in the first quarter. They are growing year after year.and forecasting more profits! Those “militant beggars” salary has lost 20% of its buying power. I think you’d be the same or should we let all companies walk all over us while they squeeze more profits year after year.
@Pat Barry: you don’t judge a company (especially an airline) on profits or losses in ONE quarter. They had profits of €225 million last year
But how will people on the dole be able to take their Social Welfare holidays in the sun now?
Someone please spare a thought for them in this whole mess!
Greed
they fly 700 hours a year ..legal requirement and on average 200k a year .that’s 285 euros an hour ….its not a whiff of greed its a union promoted stink intent on breaking aer lingus
@William O leary: 200k now is the same as around 165k four years ago….. The top of the American pilots scales are around half a million.
@William O leary: Aer Lingus regularly have to cancel flights because they simply do not have enough pilots to fly them all. This is because pilots have voted with their feet, and gone to companies where the pay and conditions are better. Aer Lingus are paying pilots less than, BA, Lufthansa, Air France and nearly all the major US airlines. Pilots are in high demand, and yet Aer Lingus freezes pay for 5 years, and refuses to match the pay of their IAG sister company. Not the cleverest management decision…
@Tanya Burke: and that is the way pay pressure works and should work in private sector. Not strikes.
@William O leary: be careful what they wish for – they’ll end up running the company into the ground. AL are troubled child for IAG, they’ll drop them like a hat. 8% of the corporation
@William O leary: That’s not bad. My family of 4s fare more than covered a pilots pilots pay down and back to Malaga…… On a packed a330. Another 300 passengers and cargo….. I wouldn’t worry too much about breaking that profit making machine!
@Tanya Burke: if all the other airlines are paying so much then why don’t they all leave and move to the other airlines..its a free market..
@William O leary: incorrect. That’s at the very top of the pay scale after many, many years. Most are on 60/70k. Facts can be pesky.
American pilots fly 1000 hours a year…..bit of a difference
I would pay for a pilot than pay for politicians
So they want a quarter of their current salary extra for pressing auto pilot for the majority of a journey lol
Nearly 93% in favour is a good indication of their intent. I hope they get what they want. Too many large companies screwing workers into the ground while raising their prices and reporting huge profits.
Good luck to these pilots. And I hope more people kop on soon.
Has anyone mentioned the free parking at Dublin airport, plus the generous travel concessions for family and friends. Its all on the AL website folks. They also get 21% of their salary paid into a pension fund enjoying tax free growth forever.. The list goes on and on. Am I allowed to wonder if any earn an income off the free parking. Hmmmm.. Only thing they can’t afford is a union that won’t embarass them..!!! Oh did I mention the free parking..
24% raise lol unions destroy companies.
Let’s all hope a deal is struck soon. It’s going to have to end in an agreement either way. I do feel as though the lesser paid pilot grades have a valid claim and should be fairly treated.
The only place where unions still exist with power is the public sector. The private sector employees no longer have that luxury in the hire em and fire em private sector.
@Paul O+Brien: you have no idea how hard it is to fire an employee in Ireland
The one reason I avoid Aer Lingus
@James Gorman: The pilots wanted a raise is the reason you avoid AL? Really?
Firstly I would like to note I am not a fan of striking, bully boy tactics to get your way. But reading the comments above there appears to be v little context on the situation. Last pay rise was 2019. Since the. Minimum wage has gone from 10.50 to 12.70. British Airways a sister company has increased their wages by 23%. While I don’t agree with the strike and the timing….just coming into summer, the euros and olympics. Not to mention that my husband is due to fly for a work meeting on Wednesday so I am already personally affected by the plans. I have to wonder what the management thought would happen.
Reading some of the articles here, it appears rugby is the sport of choice for a particular brand of sc@mbag….
Spare a thought for them if you seen them at the bowling alley
@Shane O Mac: they are rich people alrighty
I’m sure Aer Lingus bookings will be down over 90% going forward until a deal is reached.
I cant see this dragging on too long at that rate.
I’m glad to see it’s a work to rule and not a full strike. A clever move by the IALPA as the pilots continue to fly and get paid .
It’s enough to stop bookings and bring the airline to a virtual standstill over time if negotiations drag on into the summer.
When bookings dry up the rest of Aer Lingus staff could be laid off temporarily.
Aer Lingus management need to get a fair and workable deal done and quickly or huge damage will be caused to the Airline and that’s in nobody’s interest.
I hope the strike is fixed before the 2025 Six Nations
Typically the end of the month is when WTR has greatest effect- so definitely cancellations etc are happening end of next week unfortunately
@You’re Not Serious: Work to rule is worse for passengers than a particular strike date. At least passengers have a heads up their flight is cancelled with a strike…… It’s Russian roulette with the WTR. Anxiety for every EI passenger as opposed to just those affected on the strike date.
To the pilots on the forum and there be many, three questions already posed multiple times without reply. Let’s see if we can do better this morning.
Do you guys use the free parking at Dublin airport for personal trips, holidays abroad and the like?
If a pilot prefers to use public transport to travel to the airport can they allow a third party to avail of it?
Do any pilots earn a 2nd income in this way ?
have your say