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InvestigatesHands On Deck“PAPA RINGING.” THE words flash on Matilda’s* phone.
Inside their home built of hollow blocks, in between rice fields in a province just north of Manila – the capital of the Philippines, she calls her husband, Rene*, a fisherman turned carer in Ireland. They haven’t seen each other in five years.
“My sons and I are used to not seeing him. Because of video calls at least we feel he’s here, even though he is not.”
Rene hasn’t been home for several years, due to the exploitative working conditions he faced in Ireland which left him undocumented. His working permission elapsed once he “ran away from the boat”.
It wasn’t his first time working abroad. Rene has travelled across the Pacific Ocean working in different roles on boats since the 1990s. His experience in Ireland was very different.
“I was sleeping in the boat the whole time, even [though] my contract said that my employer should be providing a flat. They didn’t even give us an allowance for food. We had to eat leftover meat and fish on the boat.
“Sometimes, we’d even ask other boats for food, and our rest time was only when there were storms.”
Noteworthy interviewed a number of migrant fishers in Rene’s position; who left vessels due to working conditions they found exploitative. In some cases the vessel owners were subsequently ordered to pay thousands in monies owed.
Yet this process can take years with many finding themselves undocumented during it, often resorting to fighting in the courts to make their status legal once more.
Modern slavery – which includes human trafficking and forced labour – is the illegal exploitation of people for personal or commercial gain. The International Labour Organisation (ILO) states that “a string of recent reports indicate that forced labour and human trafficking in the fisheries sector are a severe problem”.
This string of reports includes a number finding exploitation and trafficking within the Irish fishing sector by the MRCI in 2017, research from Maynooth University and successive annual Trafficking in Persons (TIP) reports from the United States government.
Over the past six months, Noteworthy teamed up with journalists in the Philippines and Ireland to investigate modern slavery in the Irish fishing industry, with a focus on Filipino workers – the biggest group of fishers from from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) in the sector.
By combing through almost 100 inspection reports and numerous other documents obtained through freedom of information (FOI) requests, press requests to government departments and agencies, as well as speaking to fishers, advocates and those working in the fishing industry, we can now reveal:
This investigation was supported by Journalismfund.eu’s Modern Slavery Unveiled grant programme. Yesterday, we investigated trafficking in the fishing industry and reported how the Irish justice system is ‘failing’ migrant fishers who report exploitation.
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NGOs and migrant advocates told our investigative team that migrant fishers are becoming undocumented due to the conditions attached to a specific visa – the Atypical Working Scheme (AWS) for non-EEA crew in the Irish fishing fleet.
Bill Abom, deputy director of the Migrant Rights Centre Ireland (MRCI), said that employment permits are problematic but this scheme is “the worst version of the employment permit system” when it comes to people’s rights and the risk of exploitation.
This sentiment was echoed by every expert advocating for migrant fishers that Noteworthy spoke to across the NGO, trade union, academic and justice sectors.
At least 4% of non-EEA fishers in this controversial scheme have been formally recognised as victims of trafficking, with more fighting for unpaid wages through the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC) and Labour Court.
This Atypical Scheme was introduced following an investigation by The Guardian in 2015 which exposed how trafficked migrant workers were being abused in the Irish fishing industry. At the time, almost all non-Europeans working in the sector were undocumented, according to Michael O’Brien, fisheries campaign lead at the International Transport Workers’ Federation (ITF).
The scheme applies to specific fishing boats over 15 metres in length. This currently accounts for just over 170 vessels – 9% of the Irish fishing fleet, but may reduce to under 130 in the near future as many are poised to take part in the Brexit voluntary decommissioning scheme.
Of the 337 holders of valid AWS permissions at the end of last year, the majority (48%) were from the Philippines. Fishers from Ghana, Indonesia and Egypt are also commonly employed on Irish vessels.
In 2016, the scheme was to provide a legal framework for vessel owners to regularise undocumented workers and provide “a legal path to recruit new people thereafter,” O’Brien explained.
Yet, experts state it has now become a vehicle to exploit the same workers it was introduced to protect.
MRCI’s Abom said “there is no doubt from our side – whether they [the government] will openly admit it or not – that clear mistakes were made in the design and implementation of the Atypical Working Scheme. And it created significant problems for fishers, many of whom became undocumented as a result.”
Five years ago – shortly after the commencement of the scheme – the MRCI published a report that was highly critical of the scheme following interviews with 30 migrant fishers. It found that over 80% were working more than 60 hours per week, with average hourly wages of just €2.82.
It is evident that little has changed in the subsequent years with similar findings reported in the Maynooth study last year – research funded by the ITF.
Lead researcher of this study Dr Clíodhna Murphy, associate professor of law in Maynooth University, said that “labour exploitation and poor working conditions are rife in the fishing industry”.
“Migrant workers are used and exploited within the fishing industry all over the world. This is a worldwide problem but the problems in Ireland can be traced to very specific policies and laws here.”
According to O’Brien the experience since the scheme’s introduction “has been a large element of non-compliance”.
For fishers “enrolled in the scheme and recruited in the subsequent years”, almost all that O’Brien has encountered were “not paid as per the requirement of their contract… or they are paid the absolute minimum”. This, he said, often results in “a significant underpayment” compared to hours worked.
Patrick Murphy, chief executive officer at Irish South and West Fish Producers Organisation (IS&WPO), which represents vessel owners, said that the government knew there was a problem with the Atypical Scheme for years and it was “causing chaos in the industry”.
“They [the government] have as much of a responsibility for anything going on with these fellas as anybody else because they knew it was a problem. The scheme was not fit for purpose and instead of fixing the scheme, they let it drag on.”
In regards to the alleged exploitation by vessel owners, he said: “In every single occupation, nobody’s perfect and there are other fellas mistreating fellas. We don’t stand by those people.
“If you treat these lads badly and they leave, you’re out of business. You can’t take your boat out without a full complement of crew.”
This scheme was set up to be different from the general working permit which can be issued for two years and then renewed for three years. In contrast, the AWS fisher permissions have to be renewed annually.
Crucially, after five years with a general working permit, workers can apply for a ‘Stamp 4’ visa. This is shortened to two years for those with a critical skills permit. Stamp 4s allow people to work or set up their own business without being tied to a specific employer. Holders can also apply for their families to join them here in Ireland.
Fishers with AWS permissions do not have this entitlement, though a number of cases are being brought to the High Court in the coming weeks contesting this.
It also has very specific stipulations that tie fishers to employers and set contracts, working hours and pay. Both NGOs and vessel owner representatives told Noteworthy these contracts have led to lower pay compared to other crew members who are generally paid with a share of the catch.
The ITF and MRCI are looking for fishers to have a similar permission to the critical skills permit, where they would get a two-year permission, followed by the opportunity to obtain a Stamp 4.
The IS&WPO want a three-year initial period, with a stipulation that if fishers want to leave their employer, the new vessel owner must compensate the previous employer for any costs incurred in recruitment or transport.
The fact that AWS permissions tie fishers to one employer is one of its major underlying problems according to MRCI’s Abom. Though there is an option to move, all of those involved in this sector have highlighted the difficulties involved in moving, with around 15% of fishers doing this since the scheme’s inception.
“You can’t challenge an employer when you’re tied to them and you have no other choice,” he said, adding that he’d be a rich man if he had a euro for every time a worker came back to him and said: “We complained but they [the employer] said – ‘If you don’t like it, go the f*** home’”.
Workplace Relations Commission (WRC) findings back up Abom’s assertion about these employers – over 75% of vessel owners who employ non-EEA workers have been issued with contravention notices since the scheme’s launch near the start of 2016. These included working without permission, issues with hours or work and rest and not providing wages due or leave entitlements.
Now, following pressure from the recent national and international reports, a review of the Atypical Scheme – completed in March but published last month – recommended that the scheme be replaced by a general working permit. It also calls for those currently availing of the scheme to be allowed apply for a Stamp 4 permission after two years or shorter.
Both the ITF and MRCI told Noteworthy that all current AWS permission holders should have immediate access to a Stamp 4 visa. “We’re not talking about huge numbers here,” Abom said.
Murphy of the IS&WPO said that “to solve this problem”, anybody here for over five years has “to be given a Stamp 4 straight away. No question. They’ve earned it.” He added that “anybody that is in the country that’s not working, or whatever, should be allowed to go home and sent home to their families”.
Following the review, the Department of Justice announced on their immigration website that the permission system for fishers would “close for new online applications” at the end of the year to “provide for the transition from the AWS system to the Employment Permit system”.
This news has been welcomed by migrant representatives and vessel owners alike though all advocates and representatives told Noteworthy it is crucial that the details of any changes are agreed with their involvement.
Problem solved? Not for Rene who has been left undocumented because of his treatment within the scheme. The cross-departmental review doesn’t make any recommendations in relation to undocumented workers. And he is not alone.
Rene, who is in his 50s, worked long hours at sea, with little rest – sometimes at sea, sleeping for just one to two hours each night. Crucially for him and his family, he wasn’t paid for three months after he started his job.
“We had no salary. That is very hard. We didn’t even get any money to spend for us or to send back home. My wife was really angry about that.”
Back in the Philippines, Matilda’s call is answered by Rene. He tells his family he is doing fine “taking care of an older lady”.
He says he is trying to get permission to be allowed to work but his papers haven’t been settled yet. Until then, he has been shifting from different jobs including a painter, dishwasher, gardener and construction worker, just to survive.
“There was a time we couldn’t buy food, we couldn’t buy rice because there was really nothing coming from him. We had a hard time eating three times a day,” Matilda said.
Both their sons, one in senior high school and one in his last year in college, had to stop studying for two years because of their situation. The eldest took a porter job which paid Php 250 (€4.20) per day.
“Sometimes he [Rene] would send us Php 1,700 (€29) to Php 3,000 (€51) a month just so we could survive,” Matilda recalled.
Their financial situation got so bad that at one point four moneylenders would come to their house “almost every day”. Matilda would tell them that she didn’t know when she would receive money from Rene.
His youngest son said: “I was so stressed because of what happened to my father, to the point that my hair was falling out. I had to accept that I will be delayed in my studies because there was no choice for me.”
“My experience of undocumented [fishers] is of people who got sick with serious illnesses, ended up in hospital and were abandoned by their employers,” Sr Jo McCarthy who set up the Cork Migrant Centre told Noteworthy. She is highly critical of the Atypical Scheme, calling it a “form of indentured slavery”.
She also told our team about the inequality experienced by fishers currently enrolled in the scheme or undocumented because of it. Two Egyptians she worked with – one undocumented and one employed through the AWS scheme for over five years – have had very different experiences.
The undocumented fisher “has applied and got his Stamp 4 because he was here for four years,” she explained. This was part of the scheme by the government earlier this year to regularise long-term undocumented workers.
Yet his colleague – who worked in Ireland for over five years with permissions under the AWS scheme – “has got a deportation order” because of a gap in his work permit. Like Rene, the review of the scheme does not help this fisher.
When Noteworthy asked the Department of Justice what it was doing to help fishers who became undocumented due to flaws in the AWS scheme, a spokesperson said:
Undocumented workers remain outside of the recommendations of this report. However, it is open to any person who is undocumented in the State to apply to the Minister to regularise their residence.
It is unclear how many undocumented fishers that previously had AWS fisher permissions are currently working on Irish vessels, but WRC inspection reports from 2021 and 2022 – obtained by the investigative team through FOI request – reveal that 40% of cases involved undocumented workers.
At least three of these 10 cases involved fishers who had an AWS permission which had expired, with four cases of alleged trafficking also found. One report stated: “During that inspection it became apparent that a fisher engaged on that vessel, a Ghanaian national… had no documentation on board and that his passport was being held by the leasing company.”
The WRC has “no function or responsibility in relation to the investigation and prosecution of human trafficking”, according to a spokesperson for the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (DETE) that oversees the WRC.
These cases were referred by the WRC to the gardaí, according to the inspection reports. We reported yesterday that there have been no prosecutions by the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) to date in relation to trafficking in the fishing industry.
Just three of the 10 vessel owners were successfully prosecuted by the WRC for employing these undocumented fishers, with three unsuccessful prosecutions also reported. The prosecutions resulted in convictions for vessel owners and fines ranging from €1,000 to €3,000.
O’Brien from the ITF said that “the non-compliances with the WRC are not the full story”. He said that if a migrant worker raises issues, they risk not only losing their job but also their legal status “as he is left to try and find another vessel owner to hire him under the terms of the scheme”.
MRCI’s Abom said that “workers have to know that if they do make a complaint that there’s somewhere else for them to go to continue their income.” He added that “if they don’t have a pathway or they don’t know what they can do, they’re not going to speak up.”
A review of the WRC’s outreach and use of interpretation for the fisheries sector published in February 2022 stated that, out of 25 non-EEA fishers contacted by the WRC for interviews in November 2021, just two responses were received.
We obtained a similar finding in our analysis of 2021 and 2022 WRC inspection reports, as when inspectors attempted to follow-up with non-EEA fishers for a “confidential interview” or information, no response was received in at least two thirds of the cases.
In one case, when an AWS permission holder was interviewed during an unannounced inspection, he said that “he was not paid for all hours worked” and “did not receive holiday pay or public holiday entitlements”.
The report continued: “However, he requested that his name was not mentioned to the employer and did not want to raise any grievances or make any complaints.” The inspector gave his business card to the migrant fisher but wrote that none of the AWS permission holders were in contact.
O’Brien said that the inspectors “don’t routinely use interpreters during the course of the day” and that they “need to be a bit more persistent”.
Interpretation was mentioned in one of the reports we obtained when the inspector wrote that interpretation for an interview in April 2021 was provided by the worker’s friend.
When the ITF’s criticism of interpreter services was put to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment (DETE), a spokesperson said that the WRC “does avail of interpretation services, where appropriate”.
“Interpretation, translation services and interactive technologies are available to the WRC and are deployed by inspectors as required. The WRC takes every reasonable step to contact employees for investigation purposes.”
The DETE spokesperson stated that measures and initiatives from their review earlier this year were currently being progressed.
On a related note, for the cross-departmental review of the AWS fishers, it stated: “Google translate was used to get a basis of understanding of the content of the foreign language submissions”.
Extracts from a number of these submissions are included throughout this article. These were obtained through an FOI request to the Department of Justice.
A large proportion of WRC cases we analysed were in relation to the granting of annual leave and public holiday entitlements, as well as unpaid wages, unlawful deductions and issues with payslips and statements of wages.
Just over €15,500 was paid to migrant fishers across nine WRC cases where money was owed.
These were among the almost 530 inspections of the 174 vessels in the scheme since its inception, according to a Department spokesperson. Since 2016, the WRC have “brought 22 prosecutions against fishing vessel owners,” they added.
Nathan*, who came to Ireland from the Philippines last year, experienced many of these issues before leaving his employer’s vessel in the past few months due to conditions he felt he could no longer endure.
On board he had “almost no sleep” which impacted his eyes, he said while pointing to a red mark near his iris. Crew members from Eastern Europe – whom, he said, were paid more than €5,000 per trip – were also “intimidating Filipinos”, he claimed.
In terms of his pay, his salary was “not even minimum wage”, he said, and that his working hours were not logged properly.
He had travelled to Ireland as his friends – who worked on different vessels – had a good experience on the Atypical Scheme, receiving bonuses. He thought this opportunity would enable him to finish building his house, which he said is still not finished.
He felt that fishers who are speaking up about these issues will hopefully improve conditions for other workers. Already, he has been told by friends that following a WRC inspection of their vessel their salary went from €450 to €500 per week.
The WRC cannot recoup monies owed to fishers in relation to excessive hours worked or insufficient rest, including working through weekends and holidays. Instead, the only recourse is prosecution by the Marine Survey Office (MSI), which does not lead to any compensation for the migrant fishers.
There have been a number of WRC cases brought by AWS fishers in recent years, with thousands in compensation awarded. However, some of this has since been lost on appeal because of this issue.
Rectifying this was part of a mediation agreement with the International Transport Workers’ Federation (ITF) in 2019, with Minister Damien English stating in a recent response to a parliamentary question that it “will be progressed as soon as is practicable in new legislation as part of a package we are working on”.
O’Brien said that “vessel owners – as employers – have to be held responsible for forcing them [migrant fishers] to work excessive hours and, consequently, having insufficient rest.”
Once fixed, this, alongside changes in the working permit, “may combine to force upward pressure to impose better conditions for fishers”, O’Brien explained.
Similar deficiencies to that found by the WRC were replicated in Marine Survey Office (MSO) unscheduled inspection reports from 2021 onwards – obtained by Noteworthy through an FOI request. These included vessels across the entire fishing fleet – not just vessels eligible to employ AWS holders.
A total of 45% of these inspections found deficiencies relating to hours of work or rest. One inspector of a vessel at Dingle, Co Kerry wrote: “The Master and 4x crew onboard cannot produce copies of records of rest / work.” Copies of the crew members’ work agreements could also not be produced.
Another vessel – with 27 deficiencies – had “no crew list on board” and “no hours of rest records available for any crew member”.
According to O’Brien, “the most serious responsibility” of the MSO on fishing vessels with non-EEA migrant labour “is the question of hours of work and hours of rest” – all the more, given these breaches can’t currently be brought to the WRC.
The 42 MSO inspection reports obtained by the investigation team detailed 350 deficiencies – ranging from one to 35 per report – but just four vessel inspections had “grounds for detention”. In the vast majority of cases, the master was “instructed to rectify” the deficiency “before departure” or “within 14 days”.
“The MSO has an effective enforcement regime and any deficiencies identified are given a corrective action and the owner and skippers of vessels are required to rectify deficiencies,” said a spokesperson for the Department of Transport – which oversees the MSO.
“For an inherently hazardous sector”, O’Brien asked if a lack of public outcry given this volume of health and safety breaches, is because of the high intensity of migrants working in it. “Would it be tolerated in any other sector? We have to ask the question of ourselves as a society.”
Those left undocumented in Ireland by the current system told our team that though unions like SIPTU and the ITF were of help, they were often left struggling, with families badly impacted back home.
Mark*, a seafarer from the south of the Philippines, has been working in the sea since the mid-2000s. His father was also a fisherman and Mark travelled with him from a young age to help on the boat.
He told our team that he left the vessel after a number of months due improper wages for long working hours – of around 70-80 hours per week – which were often double the 39-hours in his contract. “European crews are paid better and get a share,” he explained.
Now undocumented, he is currently trying to obtain permission to be able to work legally in Ireland once more.
When we visited his family home, his wife Lucy* said that “sometimes what he sends is really not enough for us to survive, but what’s important is we’re able to buy rice at least… it’s still better than nothing”.
“His youngest daughter misses him so much. He left when she was just two – she’s now six… He’s been gone too long”, she said.
Mark’s work on the boat in Ireland often began at midnight. “It’s a lot of work fishing for prawns, we get around 4 hours of sleep each day, but that’s only if there isn’t trouble with the nets,” he said.
In Maynooth’s study, a number of workers “described being asked to hide fish, in contravention of quota rules”. Mark and another migrant fisher who spoke to our investigative team described similar practices.
“There is even overfishing, we catch black sole but they hide it,” Mark said, and added that these fish were not added to the catch logbook.
“There are no jobs here, that’s why Mark went abroad,” his mother Cynthia* told our team. “We are always in touch with him. Every day he says that his life is hard, that he has to [move] from one job or another because his papers are not yet fixed.”
Nobody knows about Mark’s present situation. When neighbours ask why they borrow money, his family lies and says there was a delay in his pay.
Lucy, his wife added: “When he left, we were expecting that life would be easier, that he would be able to send his kids to school, but what happened was the opposite.
“At least we’re able to get by still. It’s just harder now because the kids are growing already, so that means the costs for raising them is higher as well.”
According to Dr Maruja Asis, Director of Research and Publications at the Scalabrini Migration Center in Manila, Filipino migrants leave the country for economic reasons.
“They want to improve their family’s lives, they dream for the welfare of the families. Of course, there are Filipinos who wish to see the world, but the biggest motivation is economic.”
Fr Paulo Prigol, Manila Port Chaplain of the international maritime charity Stella Maris said that migrant fishermen are a forgotten category of overseas workers in the Philippines. The sector has been very underreported and understudied.
Currently, there is a proposed Magna Carta for seafarers in the Senate, which hopes to advance their rights on the basis of the International Labour Organization’s Maritime Labour Convention (ILO-MLC) of 2006.
In addition, Fr Prigol said that “the government should craft a law specifically for migrant fishers, because usually when fishers are repatriated they just go home, and go abroad once another opportunity arises. But how best can we help them if fishers’ only choice is to leave home?” he said.
We asked the Department of Migrant Workers in the Philippines – who are “tasked to protect the rights and promote the welfare of overseas Filipino workers” – what it is doing to help people who are being exploited and prevent these practices, as well as a number of other questions. We did not receive a response in time for publication.
Back in Ireland, though change is afoot following the review of the scheme, both NGOs, unions and vessel owner representatives are hesitant to celebrate just yet.
This is not the first time that recommendations were made in regards to the Atypical Workers Scheme. In addition to the MRCI, Maynooth and US-Trafficking in Persons reports, the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment made 12 recommendations about the scheme in 2017.
One recommendation was that the scheme be amended to be linked to the worker only, and not specific to a vessel or owner – an issue with the current scheme that every advocate that we spoke to said leaves fishers at high risk of exploitation and forced labour.
It also recommended that “a single Minister/Government Department be given overall responsibility for the fishing industry”.
There are currently four departments – Justice; Enterprise, Trade and Employment; Agriculture, Food and the Marine as well as Transport involved. In addition, the navy, WRC and MSO undertake inspections, with other agencies including BIM and the Sea Fisheries Protection Authority involved.
This is key, according to Patrick Murphy of the IS&WPO who said there is currently “collective responsibility” which he said has been “frustrating” when trying to get answers from various departments. “Who is responsible? Who is the one where the buck stops?”
The AWS review group stated that it “understands that none of the recommendations of the Committee were acted upon at the time or subsequently”.
And that is the worry.
For MRCI’s Bill Abom, their “concern now and going forward is to try to fix the past”. He said “the best way to do that is to give workers immediate access to apply for a Stamp 4” – including both those who still have valid AWS permissions and fishers who are now undocumented.
Now, they’re ignoring the undocumented fishers completely – and there’s a good pool of them… so there needs to be a solution there.
That includes Rene, Nathan and Mark as well as the impact it is having on their parents, wives and children.
Being undocumented, Rene worries about whether he will ever get a break from work and afford to retire.
Currently, his work as a carer is stable enough to send his children back to school. Yet, he fears future instability. This concern was echoed by his eldest son when we visited their family home near Manila.
“If the person he’s caring for dies, then what would happen to us?”
*Names have been changed
Read more articles in this series >>
A version of this article was also published by Philstar in the Philippines.
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Reporters: Maria Delaney of Noteworthy • Geela Garcia
Reporter Louise Lawless was also part of our cross-border team. The investigation was supported by Journalismfund.eu’s Modern Slavery Unveiled grant programme.
This was originally published by Noteworthy, the investigative unit of The Journal, now known as The Journal Investigates.
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No breaches of regulations?! But regulation states no more than 15 people and there was 100 at this gathering?!
@Becky Blight: another make it up as they go Job in regards to regulations! Quick enough to set up checkpoints and annoy decent people, but not those oxygen thieves
@Becky Blight: maybe it was 10 gatherings of 10 people or simply 100 people who happen to be in the one place (being facetious). Unless a gathering has been specifically defined as a legal term, it will be hard to enforce. Like in restaurants. You can’t have a function, but you can book 6 separate tables of 6 which are adjacent to each other
@Shinners Abú: it’s like this the Garda,s hands are tied .If you appeal to some people to lower the tone and do the right thing and they tell you to F. O and it’s not actually law well what can you do
@Shinners Abú: some people are above the law at both ends of the social spectrum.
Just the suckers in the middle who have to pay for everything and obey all the rules.
@Becky Blight: it’s only a recommendation, so not a lot they can do about it
@Becky Blight: I was just about to make that comment. That’s just laughable
@Becky Blight: The 15 people limit is set in law in S.I 326 of 2020 if I remember correctly. However, this is an S.I taken by the minister for health under the Health Act of 2020, and it is not related to the Government’s Plan. Which itself is advice and therefore not enforceable. So bottom line is, 15 people is enforceable under S.I 326, not under the health plan. But as usual they’re spoofing and probably have no idea what they can or can’t enforce. Sure half the government couldn’t tell you what’s law and what isn’t.
@Shinners Abú: What should the Gardai have done so?? They carried out the right approach to the situation.
@Ths Fer: Sorry everyone. My bad. S.I 352 of 2020 replaces S.I 326 and specifically sets out restrictions for Dublin. The Gards can in fact actually enforce restricting Dubliners from leaving Dublin and people from other counties from coming to Dublin (Par 13). This S.I expires on 10/10/2020. In this S.I if you read it, “relevant county” means Dublin and “relevant person” means Dubliner. Turns out it’s not just advice, it’s actual law or should be presumed to be unless reading the latest statutory instrument tells you otherwise.
@Becky Blight: they were asked and complied as is the requirement.
It’s an offence to organise such an event, not participate
@Ths Fer: what’s the actual Garda powers though?
@Ths Fer: there’s no penalties and enforcement powers in there though.
@Becky Blight: Which law was broken, and is there a power of arrest laid down in legislation for it?
@Mark O Mahony: Turn on the water cannons
@Becky Blight: it’s not a breach to attend. It’s a breach to organise an event which doesnt comply with the guidelines.That’s why the Gardai are looking for the organisers.
I wouldn’t be fond of the drink now but when I do go at it I do go at it very hard I do have 45 pints and then I will have a packet of crisps or a packet of peanuts and then I’d be half dead anyway so I’d absolutely engulf the toilet bowl with the full power of my bowls. Anyway the next days Maureen would have the fry on and I’d have 15 or 20 sausages, and then I’d go at the drink again. Thered be no shtopping me at all.
@Darrell O’Malley: basthards
@Darrell O’Malley: we’ve heard it all before Darrell. Even I’ve read this before and I don’t go on The Journal that much.
@Darrell O’Malley: man paddy
@Nicola Moore: hey Nick dont b disin our poet he like just citing the gospels according to the Paddy eep he peace sister
@Nicola Moore: want to me meet up for a few drinks ?
@Darrell O’Malley: shouldn’t throw bowls at toilet
If a gathering like this is not considered a breach. Then we are all in deep trouble. The government punishes the compliant while letting the non compliant do as they please.
@Ger O’Reilly: I don’t believe anyone has been punished, has someone been arrested and prosecuted for attending an outdoor event?
@Ger O’Reilly: Pretty much sums it up. It’s much easier to crack down on the compliant.
@Karl: I couldn’t visit my ill mother in hospital. My wife’s gran passed we hadn’t seen her in person in months. Not all punishment involves garda. These all relate to numbers climbing because of this sort of fu behaviour.
@Frank Gooding: sorry Frank, sorry for your loss
AH HEYOR, LEAVE IH OUH
@Stephen Gaffney: There was a bird from Oliver Bond that used to say that alot!
And what about the 50+ group of teenagers in blackrock having fun pushing each over and group hugs with not a mask or garda in sight today? or the packed canals i drove past from work filled of people having drinks and a picnic? It’s not like everyone in the city knows they are there, well apart from every Guard it seems. So checkpoints on the roads. Hands up who has seen people partying and drinking in the middle of the roads all day?
@Trevor Donoghue: Its only relevant when the ones participating are below the social class of the ones reporting it.
@RiainOg: check the electoral district maps for the incidents, South inner city among highest cases per 100k.
@Trevor Donoghue: what offence is being committed by having a picnic and what powers of enforcement so Gardai have?
C’mon smart man, tell be how Gardai can arrest people for having a picnic and please, quote the actual law.
@Trevor Donoghue: Picnics?? What’s next jogging????
This is why Dublin has been moved to level 3. It is unfortunate that these people are selfish and lack intelligence. They don’t care if they get the virus. They don’t care if they pass the virus on. They have no compassion, no empathy, and not a brain cell among them. They need to be locked up for their own safety, but more importantly for the safety of others. So why did the Gardai disperse them to further spread the virus instead of locking them up for fourteen days?
@Teresa O’Halloran: using what powers?
@Teresa O’Halloran: I bet your fun to have around…
Local Shinner TD ‘Snotty’ when asked on Morning Ireland about personal responsibility of those attending the ‘large gathering’ he ignored the question and took off on a rant blaming the Guards. He is going to see the Commissioner, GSOC et al. about it. No point in laying any of the blame on your constituency voters. Shinners have history when it comes to blaming the Guards.
@Mary Cahill: Yes sure SF organised it, sure they probably invented the covid in the first place.
@Badger the witness:
A trite answer to avoid giving a real answer, typical SF tactic when they are called out.
@Mary Cahill: Why dont you actually have a pop at the current government parties for not legislating properly in order to allow police to do their jobs? Doesnt suit your agenda. The current “guidelines” are a mess but let’s blame the opposition for this.
@Gerard Smith:
You are right. We don’t know whether these are restrictions, advice or legal requirements. That goes without saying. However I was commenting on a Sinn Fein TD who refused to agree that it was the personal responsibility of everyone, whatever the age, to behave so as not to endanger anybody else. Instead the Shinner went for the populist option and carried on a rant against the garda. The Garda may have a case to answer but Snodig was not interested in the facts just votes.
Tey were buzzin, mista
@Brian Murphy: it’s “gaaaawd.we were only have a buzz like”
Zero #^^+* given.
@Derek Byrne: massive fines needs to be introduced
@Ross: And who’s going to pay the massive fines? Good luck chasing that lot down!
@Ross: they’d never be able to pay then they’d end up in court and give a sob story broken home drug & alcohol abuse get community service fail to show end up in court again get sentenced to 3 months turn up at mount joy sign a form get a meal and bus money home or taxi. About the best thing to happen these people who had the party is they get Covid and suffer badly but survive then become advocates of lockdown and spread the message not the virus
@Tom Harpur Photography so same as phil hogan then?
@Tom Harpur Photography: take it out of dole money at source at €100 per week.
@Ross: Totally agree. In other countries people who break the rules must be fined. It’s when people’s pockets are hit the rule breakers might see sense. We need to make a law first and warn the public that there will be fines for those who break the restrictions. The UK have now imposed fines. Other counties in Europe have done the same. Why is Ireland not doing the same!!
@Ross: added to all the other fines that they more than likely have. Good luck chasing that fine down. Bottom line is they are oxygen thieves.
I’m sick of seeing that phrase “only oxygen thieves” thrown in. It implies that anyone you personally can’t get on with, who dresses too casually, deserves to die – especially if they have no money. I thought we were a republic, not a monarchy at the whim of an autocrat. Apparently we’re all paying customers now or dead men.
It’s ok as they were “dining outdoors” They all had spice bags and cripps sangwiches
Should have arrested every single one of the little runts, make them spend the rest of the pandemic behind bars for their complete and utter selfishness
@Adam J: As a society we should appreciate young adults who help generate herd immunity by living normal lives and keeping society afloat. Thank you, thank you, thank you. When people throw misguided complaints at you, falsely claiming that you are endangering others, remember that the opposite is true.
@Adam J: Rather than spend time behind bars, could they spend time serving in bars?
@Rory Mac Daibhéid: Go have a walk around Oliver bond hahaha and see if you still have appreciation for those poor little misunderstood fellas
@Rory Mac Daibhéid: The Spectator is a right wing rag for starters and herd immunity has not happened,
@Gary Kearney: okay. It’s an alternative opinion. I’m not sure how the Irish approach is going to work all winter into the future like this. So when i see other opinions i would like to think NPHET would consider them. Herd immunity is not what is needed but immunity in general population that stops the virus surging again, this is what Sweden appears to have.
How did they get up for work.
They should have had golf barbecue, they would have been left alone if they did.
For all the “my rights” keyboard warriors, this reckless behaviour is the reason we need to legislate to make breaching the regulations a prosecutable offence. It’s so easy to complain that “your rights” are paramount but unfortunately too many forget that their responsibilities are the flip side of their rights.
If it wasn’t a breach why was it broken up?
@David Clements: they didn’t break it up. People were asked to disperse and did so
As the landlord, what will the council do? As the council starts buying its way into more and more private housing developments around the city, people are watching, warily.
“No breaches of regulations detected”..,,, what an absolute joke. A 100 people squeezed into a small outdoor football pitch. If regulations weren’t been breached then why were they asked to disperse.
South side always at it
@Gerrard: ROOOOOOOOVVVVVEEEEERS
There were NO police at this gig. They’re too afraid to go into the flats – absolute drivel that the Gardai responded to this! This went on until 5am and it happens every weekend.
Muppets!!!!
Probably un-PC to call this lot what we all know they are. From birth they contribute nothing positive to society and blame everyone else for their situation. When it comes to a pandemic they raise their ugly heads again and make a bad situation worse.
I think the majority of us have seen the video of last nights party in Oliver Bond flats at this stage so let’s cut the BS
Ah, the Gardai…always instill confidence in their professionalism
@PF: what would you have liked them to do considering they have absolutely no pets of arrest or enforcement?
At the end of the day, a given country is only as good and developed as the population who inhabits it.
This is the same place where people were seen clapping and applauding our Health Workers. All seems to be forgotten now – grrrr
The rain is coming and that will end the outdoor partying. Our clerically controlled ‘Public’ schools do not teach civics…….we reap what we sow.
It’s the Oliver bond flats, social housing, huge levels of crime, poor education so a greater following of misinformation
Have you seen the morning after pictures of this, laughing all the way, gas out
Close the off licences and you will stop the virus in two weeks
@Owen: totally agree and all supermarkets that have an off licences
@Owen: Go away..
@Owen:
I am amazed that off licences were not closed when pubs were closed as well as the licensed sections of supermarkets. It would cut down on the availablity of alcohol and restrict house parties.
Choose from anyone that goes by Jacko, Daymo, Wiilo, Padser, Edser, Resder and so on…
@Itsonlyme: harsh! Im a law abiding citizen
Ah yes The “Up De Flats” lot showing true colours as always. Law onto themselves. Irony being in this very complex they’ve Irish flags “thanking” The HSE frontline workers everywhere. Hypocrites, most of them anyway.
@Gavin Mckenna: many of the party goers were not from the flats. The residents rang the cops but no reply
Dirty dubs , and taxi drivers dropping people off to the rave , let’s see if the taxi drivers will strike over that , turn blind eye money talks
Once again our boys in blue leave it late in catching someone deliberately breaking the law, if they reacted when it was happening they wouldn’t have to try and find them.
@James Hayes: you really don’t know the area, gardai are literally powerless there
The government, if they were any use, should declare a state of emergency and use the army in a support role. Perhaps if they tackle gangs who care for no one other than themselves with water cannon or tear gas they wouldn’t be so quick to go to these so called parties. There is absolutely no point in ministers wringing their hands and appealing to these baboons to behave responsibly. They don’t know what responsible behaviour is.
@Barry Delaney: Putting the army on the streets would mean the civil power have failed, they haven’t. Putting troops on the streets is a dangerous option, look at the North, when Jim Callaghan put the British army on the streets it was to protect the catholic population and looked what happened afterwards.
@Barry Delaney: “declare a state of emergency and use the army in a support role.”
A military dictatorship? (temporary of course, sure aren’t they all!)
Why not. A welcome change of pace on the nightly news anyway.
@Kevin50: OK Kevin, let’s not bother with that idea. The Gardai can continue driving around the area and doing nothing until there are thousands of cases a day and the health service is totally overwhelmed with the elderly population being wiped out but that wouldn’t be an emergency would it?
Anyone know what the 3 stooges are at ?
The name is Bond, Oliver Bond.
@Fachtna Roe: Oliver Bond would turn in his grave
That’s why these people have these sort of gatherings cos they know there is no consequences for them. The government are are joke. Bring in fines to anyone that attends and jail the people who organise. That will soften their cough.
I’m just gonna build a bunker in my back garden and stay there till there’s a vaccine…
Only just read the article now and it would seem that it was a high profile drug party and guards arrived 5 hour after being called. Well done lads, you make us proud! Keep focused on your silly checkpoints where you have no powers rather than putting in some effort where required. Avoid real policing at all costs, a shambles like the Govt and NPHET. With these making and implementing the guidelines what can possibly go wrong!!!!!!
Nothing to be done. No law passed.
Times like this i couldnt be happier i moved out of dublin less people means less hassle.
Me rashers are drippin at the thought of it.
Antisocial behaviour, surely a reason to evict them?
Mind you, most of us leave letters to cool off for a couple of days before opening them. Obviously this is still not a hanging crime – outrageous.
Why aren’t An Garda issuing on the spot fines?
@Liam Crowe: Good luck getting cash out of them. Sure after buying lotto tickets, ciggies and drink there’s no cash left to pay fines.I feel sorry for the non partying residents that have to put up with that. There is probably non stop fireworks too.
Surely no where in the constitution it states no more than 15 people outside together. So this rule is only a recommendation. It would be scary if the powers that be can rush in such “laws”
Remember VAT & universal social tax were meant to be temporary. I’m not condoning 100 people party but aware of rushed in draconian laws with not an eye lid batted by the public.
Under what law are the guards allowed to move people on or arrest?
Guards will not go in there without a garda escort.
The party was wrong but I have zero faith in the Gardai to police the city properly
100 people gathered in Oliver Bond is not much different than 80 gathered in a Golf Club.
@delmatey: Do some people have amnesia or something? I keep seeing this argument posted as some kind of defence for the Oliver Bond party, implying that the criticism is classism… But if you cast your mind back a few weeks ago to the golfgate scandal, you will remember that the whole country was fuming about it, even more so than about this..so much so in fact that we sacrificed having the trade portfolio in Europe to hold people to account.. I feel huge sympathy for the decent people in the Oliver Bond flats who have to live amongst the toe rags who organised this party but those that organised this party and attended fully deserve to be slated! Even if there wasn’t a pandemic, the mess alone that they left behind them was selfish and disgusting!
Maybe should build a wall around the flats !
Where’s trump! Trump for Ireland 2024 (after his next job)
These are the half-wits of our society that don’t have the mental capacity to understand the situation that we are in.
Covid aside is this event not illegal? Noise pollution? Drug use? Health and safety concerns? Private property? Unaccompanied Minors? Drinking in a public place? Surely cannot just have a large event like this unless have some kind of licence to do so besides the drugs?
Breaking all the rules risking their lives . Totally wreckless.
When the people can’t go to the pub, the pub will come to people. Simple.
The cops are responsible for enforcing public order.
According to the law.
The messers in Kildare St. need to give them the legal mandate to deal with feral youths.
No quarter for social ignorami, the responsible citizens health depends on it.
Now.
Shock horror
Ah yeah but let’s blame the pubs instead and close them all
As a society we should appreciate young adults who help generate herd immunity by living normal lives and keeping society afloat. Thank you, thank you, thank you. When people throw misguided complaints at you, falsely claiming that you are endangering others, remember that the opposite is true.
@Rory Mac Daibhéid: so while we are waiting for all the young people to become immune how many older people will die. Nice of you to think of yourself.
With flu pandemics, herd immunity is usually attained after two to three epidemic waves, each interrupted by the typical seasonality of influenza virus and more rarely by interventions, with the help of cross-protection through immunity to previously encountered influenza viruses, and vaccines when available10. For COVID-19, which has an estimated infection fatality ratio of 0.3–1.3%1,5, the cost of reaching herd immunity through natural infection would be very high, especially in the absence of improved patient management and without optimal shielding of individuals at risk of severe complications.
@paul mccoy: it’s called an opinion from an Professor from Harvard.
I can’t predict the future and neither can you so not sure why you think I would be happy for people to die.
The Article is very clear it that less people would die. Maybe try read it first. It’s not my expert advice and it’s clearly not considered by NPHET and maybe , just maybe you might like to think they’ve considered it!?
@Rory Mac Daibhéid: Herd immunity has been debunked many times as you have a chance of getting reinfected, and on top of that you can spread it recklessly to your nearest and dearest without realising. Just don’t do it.
@Paul Cunningham: debunked how, we don’t know or can’t predict the next few months. I would not be reckless so need to suggest that . I kind of think young people picking up the virus at this time of year could be a good things, its a theory. Also it’s not my decision to approve government policy. I would like to think that NPHET might consider we need to follow the immunity for general population, not herd immunity , model to stop surges. This is believe is the Swedish approach. So i don’t think its reckless. It also suggests its safer for vunerable people to do this. Anders Tegnell would explain better.
Acting like they are politicians and their cronies, disgraceful.
Southsiders….
have your say