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The report is being officially launched today, 2 August 2017.
THE PROSPECT OF a united Ireland was given front page prominence in the Financial Times this week.
The story said that the EU’s guidelines for Brexit will include a provision that would allow Northern Ireland automatically rejoin the EU should reunification with the Republic ever happen - a strategy that has now been backed by the EU 27 leaders.
Up until the Brexit vote on 23 June 2016, the concept of a united Ireland seemed a distant aspiration for many. However, since the vote, issues relating to the North, its border and the possibility of reunification have become mainstream discussions.
Rewind twenty years ago, and that certainly would not have been the case. But over the last year, a number of public figures have spoken about, not just the possibility, but the concrete steps that need to be taken to achieve a united Ireland.
In July 2016, Enda Kenny said “the EU needs to prepare for a united Ireland”, while Leo Varadkar (perhaps the next Taoiseach) said he believes he will see a united Ireland in his lifetime.
Both Sinn Fein and Fianna Fáil have produced documents on uniting the North and South, while a Claire Byrne Live/Amárach Research poll found that nearly half of Irish people think it is time for a united Ireland.
The road map to reunification
Next week, a new report which outlines in detail what Ireland needs to do to achieve a peaceful reunification of the island of Ireland will be discussed by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement.
The detailed report by the committee’s rapporteur, Senator Mark Daly, entitled ‘Brexit and the Future of Ireland: Uniting Ireland and Its People in Peace and Prosperity’ runs to over 1,200 pages and contains submissions and writings from key figures who have been involved in conflict resolution across the globe.
It details what needs to be done both before and after a united Ireland becomes a reality.
It may be hypothetical, but it paints a clear, evidence-based picture of what a united Ireland could look like and the issues that will need to be addressed.
For reunification to take place, there would first have to be a vote.
The Good Friday Agreement (GFA) provides for the people of the island of Ireland to exercise their right of self-determination by agreement between the people of North and South.
If such a vote passed, the process of Irish unification would begin.
Then what? Well, that’s the big question.
The new Oireachtas report – which is the first in the history of State to outline a road map for reunification – includes 18 recommendations. Here are some of the key ideas.
It recommends the establishment of a ‘New Ireland Forum Two’ to set a pathway to achieve the peaceful reunification of Ireland.
The first New Ireland Forum took place in 1984 to discuss the lasting peace and stability of Ireland through the democratic process.
It listed three possible structures for the future of Ireland: a unitary state, a federal/confederal state, and a joint British/Irish authority.
It’s aimed the new forum could begin in the same way as the original New Ireland Forum, whereby the new group would be the mechanism used to plan for a peaceful reunification.
A task-force to counter breakout of terrorism
Talk of reunification will not be welcomed by everyone and the report acknowledges that.
Michael Ortiz, who worked as a senior policy advisor on counter terrorism in President Obama’s administration, said to counter any breakout of terrorism an international task force with experts in counter terrorism should be established to devise and implement a plan ahead of any reunification.
The national-level task force would have national and local officials, law enforcement, civil society and other local leaders to examine potential threats, better understand the drivers of violent extremism and evaluate current resources.
“This would help everyone have a baseline understanding of what the challenge is and what needs to be done,” said Ortiz, adding:
Unfortunately, there is not an easy fix to violent extremism… If Ireland is able to launch a transparent, open and inclusive process with strong communications mechanisms, sufficient programmatic resources and creative proposals for strengthening community resilience, I believe this will go a long way in working to prevent terrorism before it starts.
How much will it cost?
The report says the Irish government needs to establish how much reunification will cost.
It calls for research to be carried out into the actual income and expenditure for Northern Ireland.
Dr Kurt Hubner of the University of British Columbia, who came before the Joint Committee, constructed economic models of scenarios of Irish unification, one of which showed a benefit of €36.5 billion in the first 8 years of unification.
Sinn Féin has also argued it would be beneficial to Ireland and has published a report to dispel what it calls the “unaffordability myth” that it might cost £24.1 billion – the figure some commentators claim is spent by Britain on the North.
It also states a report should be commissioned by the government on the impact of unification.
Legal and constitutional issues
Folding in 1.8 million people will have its problems.
The new report states the government needs to carry out an audit in relation to the legal and constitutional changes that would be needed both pre and post-unification.
What issues might emerge? Well, there is the question of citizenship and the significant problem surrounding the question of national identity which is at the core of the clash between the two versions of the constitutional future for Northern Ireland, according to High Court Justice Richard Humphreys whose work in ‘Countdown to Unity’ is relied on heavily in this report.
He highlights other constitutional issues that would have to be dealt with including, allowing for a devolved executive to continue to exist in Belfast, the question of voting rights in presidential elections or referenda which is confined constitutionally to citizens – so, the extending of voting rights to British citizens would need to be addressed.
Again, similar considerations would have to be given to extending the entitlement of non-citizens to run for the office of President or to be a member of Dáil Eireann.
“As with the reunification of Germany, it is clear that any change to the extent of the national boundary of Ireland will require changes in European Union law across a range of issues… it is likely that the technical exercise of adjusting European Union law to accommodate Irish reunification will be an extensive one and may take a considerable period of time,” said Humphreys.
What happens after the reunification of Ireland?
The potential financial problems
Once reunification takes place, there are financial implications.
Northern Ireland’s fiscal deficit would need to be paid for – and the report finds that the Irish government should not have to pay it.
Northern Ireland’s net fiscal deficit in 2013-14 was £9.3 billion (€12 billion).
The Oireachtas report states that the current full Northern Ireland deficit should continue to be paid by HM Treasury for a period of 30 years after a vote for unification.
This could be a hard one to sell to the British.
International Court of Justice
Planning is key for it to work, but issues are sure to emerge. In order to deal with these, the report recommends that Northern Ireland is included in the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice to resolve disputes arising from the Good Friday Agreement.
Whatever way you look at it – reunification of Ireland will not be easy. Similar to Brexit, Ireland’s reunification would be uncharted waters.
To close the report, an extract from TK Whittaker, who perhaps captured the complexities of the issue best in November 1968 in a note on North South Border Policy, said:
“We were, therefore, left with only one choice, a policy of seeking unity in Ireland between Irishmen. Of its nature this is a long-term policy, requiring patience, understanding and forbearance and resolute resistance to emotionalism and opportunism. It is not the less patriotic for that.
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I don’t see the need of posting this
@Eanna Forde: the families would have been briefed I’m sure.
@Eanna Forde: All air accident transcripts when available are released. As upsetting and close to home as this is, it’s no differ than any other air accident investigation. Chilling words by heros.
@Davy McSugarchops: they’re all released. Doesn’t mean it has to be pushed by a website for click bait.
@Eanna Forde: this is not a proper report. Releasing last words only to drive traffic. Vile on their part
@Eanna Forde: it’s sensationalist, reductive and a vile attempt to drive traffic.
@paddy: it inspired me to donate to the coast guards, I’d suggest others do the same
Eanna, the family and public want the truth not a cover up so this should go public.
@Eanna Forde: Agreed. Sending as a push notification to those with the app also seems tasteless. It’s not breaking news, it’s clickbait
@The Throwaway: its a story that’s been in the media for near on a month. Are you telling me if the missing Malaysian airlines plane suddenly turned up that you’d call it “clickbait”. It’s news. Like it or not. And in any country in the world it would be published.
@Eanna Forde: Public interest.
@Eanna Forde: well that’s your problem so
@Eanna Forde: I have no problem in releasing the cause of crash but to release the voice recordings is very insensitive to the families of those who lost their loved ones .
@Eanna Forde: well it gives the Looney Left and the Shinnerbots an excuse to criticise the government.
So you would suppress it? It is of public interest or is it not?
@David Murphey: Give it a break for once.
God love them. Heroes.
Harrowing chilling…
Was it really necessary to release this?
@Fr Buzz Cagney: you seen the headline , did you then click on it , read it , and then write your comment
@Pat Price: Yes Pat. Didn’t know what I was expecting to be honest. Just very sad.
@Fr Buzz Cagney: These kind of reports are standard for the aviation industry, making these reports public is a necessary part of the process of identifying failures and preventing them from happening again
Rip ..these people put the life on the line every day
OK now we know. It was a systems failure the crew are faultless. The enhanced ground protection warning system didn’t have the thing that downed them in its terrain database. They did not know that they were proximal to a lump of rock, or a “rock filled cloud” as the old pilot expression has it. They hit it, the smoke in baggage warning went off, and they were gone. Thank God it was over almost instantly.
I heard Capt Dara Fitzpatrick once speaking in one of the best radio interviews with one of the best people I’ve ever heard, about how she regularly flew into darkness and howling wind and rain. I recall sitting in my car listening and wondering how such utter courage was each day found to do what she had to do. I still don’t know. Few of us do. RIP may angels sing them to their rest.
@John O’Driscoll: where were your angels at 13 seconds to go? running other errands perhaps? over worked?
Heartbreaking
:(
Journal thanks for posting this – it’s very important that the public are informed to the full extent of what the causes to this & other such incidents are. It’s a tragedy, but the full extent has to be told, sooner than later.
@Jonny:
Spot on Jonny/ Tired of these self righteous individuals who think they have the right the speak on behalf of the bereaved.
@Jonny: agreed
Why post this article? Seriously, it brings no joy or answer to the family, it doesn’t develop journalism. It’s like sharing a picture of a dead body, just so everyone can look. I honestly don’t know how I could bear to read a family members last words just because it’s good click bait.
@The Throwaway: It’s an official release, get over yourself.
@The Throwaway: because it’s of huge interest to the public to know what actually happened to these brave men and women and also it’s damning to say a big bloody lsland and lighthouse weren’t on the the terrain mapping system of a coastguard rescue heli
@Les Boyd: it is important to know; so why not just wait to publish the actual findings instead of the last words. They make a point of saying this report doesn’t actually state any findings. Like I said, this is the equivalent of pushing a photo of a dead body & going ‘look look!’ Its not sensitive to the deceased, it doesn’t further journalism, & it doesn’t develop the story of what happened. Anyone & everyone could have told you in the final minutes & seconds that there was going to be fear, a likelihood of cursing, & so on. Simply not sensationalising the last words would not have harmed anyone; as it is I find it very difficult to accept that the family members are going ‘such a relief to finally have the terrified words of my daughter/sister in the media’.
@Jonny: it’s sensationalist click bait taken from an official release. There’s a difference. If your able to see that though is another matter.
@The Throwaway: Because it removes any doubt around pilot error. These brave heros were out doing an extreme job in difficult conditions with what they believed were the best tools. It appears the tools failed them not their training or skill. That’s an important reflection on this crew. RIP
@The Throwaway:
It brings substantial answers. The effin island wasn’t listed on their maps. Absolutely a reduce helicopter which is expected to fly at low altitudes is this area and at night doesn’t have everything that even peeps out of the water on its maps. People should be criminally charged for this
@The Throwaway:
I disagree.While it is harrowing and sobering reading, it is important that the truth is known. There has been so much disrespectful speculation in the las four weeks, it is important that facts are made public.
To me, what is more nauseating is the sanctimonious self righteousness of some of the posters here who seem to be only interested on jumping on a populist bandwagon and blaming the Journal for doing what any newspaper or news outlet would do
@Joseph Healy: to be fair, the journal has substantially changed there article from when it was first published last night, when they had only published the last words of the article. It is important to know what happened and to set out the facts, however they can still do that without relying on publishing what the crew said. The same style of reporting as used in the courts would have been better, where the facts are reported without hearing the exact details of how someone pleaded with their life as they were been murdered, or what they said while been raped. Last night the journal published just the final words, and that was wrong. As appears evident by the fact they have massively and substantially changed the content of the article as it is now.
@The Throwaway: the Air Acident Investigation Unit published this preliminary report. It is in the public interest its contents are reported. Other media outlets have also reported the findings. Those who disagree with publication should make their views known to the AAIU which released the report.
@Jonny: d**khead.
Desperate to read and imagine. Heroes every one of them. RIP
Extremely sad. Hope the remaining crew are found soon.
That is heartbreaking to read, wonderful people that came to such a sad end. Cant imagine the fear they felt in those last moments. I hope their families take comfort from the national outpouring of love & respect shown over the past few weeks.
Who are all these holier than thous coming on here trying to dictate what’s good for the grieving families and the dead’s memory? How do ye know the families won’t take comfort from the fact that the country has been touched by reading those last few words and sharing just a small bit of their grief?
@Dick Finger: I’m outraged at all the outrage.
Wow that’s heartbreaking stuff
Jesus Christ….God rest their souls
That actually made me burst into tears
Ok
@Amanda Burns: me too
Trying to put myself in their seat, must have been horrifying, may they rest in peace
Ciaran is my first cousin and while I can’t speak on behalf of my aunt and uncle or Ciaran’s wife or siblings or any of the rest of my family for that matter, I personally found this headline upsetting. I actually logged on to see what was happening with the bus strikes and I wasn’t expecting to see another headline about R116 as usually my mam rings me if she hears of any developments. Seeing the words “we’re gone” in the headline left me feeling like I had been punched in the stomach. You could have simply reported that the preliminary report was released. There are lots of people who knew and were close to the 4 crew members who are not family too and they probably didn’t expect to see this either.
@Yvonne Nic Gabhann: Yvonne I work at Dublin Airport and am sick at the insensitivity of this information being made public.
My first thought was what about the families. God rest the brave selfless souls who knew the dangers of the job but did it willingly. You and your family are in my thoughts. God bless them and you all.
@Gerry Carroll: Thanks Gerry and the same to you and your colleagues too!
@Yvonne Nic Gabhann:
I am so so sorry Yvonne, for the insensitivity of the article, it shocked me greatly, I can only imagine how it affected you and families and friends of the victims.
@Yvonne Nic Gabhann: I know it must be very upsetting for you. However, for the rest of us, it is a reminder of how heroic and selfless your cousin and his colleagues were. None of that will bring them back, I know, but they should be remembered for the sacrifices and risks they took to bring others to safety.
That’s heartbreaking stuff. Tough to here anyones last words…..
@danielplainview: *hear
@Denise Daly: Pathetic
:(
God love them
No need for that
Horrific to read, may they all rest in peace. I hope the next report will be informing us that the two missing crew members are recovered.
Such brave people risking their lives to help others. RIP #heros
@Cozy: It’s not driving down the M50. It’s not like there are streetlights and headlamps. Maybe if the pilot didn’t see something, it couldn’t be seen. Flying at night in bad weather out to sea is ‘IMC night’ conditions, in other words, you are flying solely on instruments (because you see virtually nothing out the windshield) and you have to focus intently on interpreting them. You can’t trust what you think you see outside because optical illusions are 100% guaranteed under those conditions. It takes skill beyond you can imagine to fly like that. The rear crews comms might not have been switched to the pilot at that moment, who knows. All I know, it was nobody’s fault. Nobody set out to give up their lives that night, only to save lives and they were each and all heros. RIP
@Paraic McDonagh:
Read the report on RTE, more concise with none of the personal and heartbreaking details on it.
@Catherine Mc: Thanks Catherine. Now that, I’ve read RTE, I can say the article above is disgraceful. No mention that the lighthouse wasn’t listed in the EGPWS or terrain avoidance databases. How is a pilot supposed to fly IMC with myopic instruments? Poor souls.
@Paraic McDonagh:
The journal has a strange approach to reporting. I listened to a verbal report on 9 O clock news absolutely no mention of personal detail. Journal may have crossed the line here.
@Catherine Mc: the Indo has much the same. The report is official and there is a link to it if you want to read it. Even what the Journal says leaves a lot of questions but also clears up some. The earlier report of no technical problems must have been under pressure from the helicopter manufacturers.
@lavbeer:
Cheers, quite possibly true, it just reminded me in a way of attending the inquest of a loved one who died tragically, but would have been held privately, chilling.
@lavbeer:
I have just read the report on the Indo, certainly presented and reported so much better than on this site.
@Catherine Mc: The Irish Times also have a report up. They add a few key words which add to the unanswered questions. I think anyone wanting to throw comments as fact need to read the full report.
@lavbeer: The issue I have is that the article here only refers to comms and nothing else. The circumstances are much more complex than what was captured on the voice recorder. Ineffective terrain avoidance, IMC workload, visibility, weather conditions, the shear unexpected presence and height of the lighthouse and numerous other factors are all likely to have contributed. Pilots who fly like this are at the pinnacle of aviation ability in my opinion and there were 2 in the cockpit let’s not forget. Aircraft have an envelope of manoeuvrability and it looks as though it was all too sudden to do anything about it, despite the tragic last second recognition that all was not well.
@lavbeer:
Yes have also read that report now. I will never again rely on the journal for reliable information.
@Paraic McDonagh: I will only reply to your comment that the article only deals with comms. That is not true. As I said earlier there is a link to the report which neither IT or Indo give.
I haven’t read the report as I am not trained in any aspect of this like list here.
@Catherine the IT queries more than the journal click bait does. No?
@Paraic McDonagh: very sad. I wonder if light houses are no use of they can’t be seen
@lavbeer: I am using the android app and I see no link.
@Datuk Don: Very cynical comment. Lighthouse beams are designed and directed to be seen by boats on the surface not by aviators. And I think many people imagine that you fly by sight the same as driving a car at night time but it’s simply not the case. It’s head down scanning of instruments because there is nothing to see out the windshield but blackness.
They hadn’t a hope. Heros
Devastating
I think this is in really bad taste to publish this.
@thomasina butterly: Why? what would you suggest? a cover up . . .
@thomasina butterly: I agree. And some of the comments are in even worse taste !
Very sad. Rip.
Not the time to post this information, two men are still missing, their family’s are heart broken they don’t need to hear the emotional last words of their loved ones,
@paddy: I have done, shame on the journal,
@Karen: have you contacted every other media outlet to let them know too ?
Am I the only one who simply cannot get my head around how a rescue helicopter operating off the west coast cannot have blackcock island on its systems, an island very close to one of the main refuelling points for helicopters operating off the west coast (at Blacksod)…I just cannot get my head around how that could be, just incredible and so sad.
@Patrick Riordan: I given great allowances of consideration for government cut backs. But at some stage they go too far. These untimely deaths bring a few tears but will be not long forgotten because cut backs killed those people. Enda Kenny our Taoiseach and the minister responsible for getting the soft ware. I recall came out after this tragic preventable accident and he told the media , they could not recruit pilots to give cover. He should have told us they cut back on software purchases. A young mother now has left her son behind because of this.
God help us all were all doomed because of cut backs. That young boy left without hims mom will carry this negligence for the rest of his life. Why because we could not spend an extra few euro on software. Crazy.
Terrifying. Hard not to be upset by that. God love them. And their families.
I don’t know anything about Helicopters, but I was talking to a pilot recently and he said – “the only difference between and plane and a helicopter is when a helicopter is about to go down you know about it”. Black box analysis must be a tough job.
@Ben Walshe: clearly the person who said that to you wasn’t a helicopter pilot because it’s a load of horse. Or more likely you made it up.
@bopter: Nope. Pretty sure he knows what he is on about too.
@bopter: fake profile calling me out too? Wtf is that about
How in the name of god is this news? Focus on the report, not their last words. Enough with the sensationalistic rubbish journalism.
The realisation that they were going down and would most likely be killed must of been awful. They would of known their odds on surviving were slim. Rip to that brave crew
Such a tragic and sad ending for this crew to what was probably a regular day for them helping to keep people safe. They would have fought hard to keep control, to keep safe so they could go home to their families. May they rest in peace
One can only imagine what went wrong.. such a sad loss…. God rest them all
Is it true that the data for Blackrock wasn’t in the computer navigation system they used?
@sean o’dhubhghaill:
Yes, that is what RTE is reporting, none of the above details !
@sean o’dhubhghaill: yes
@Catherine Mc: that’s shocking !
@Suzie Sunshine:
Yes
Wow, Powerful. RIP
Sad.
Piece of news I didn’t really want to know, poor family’s
The island and the lighthouse were not in the terrain database. By the time the rear crew member had visual sight of the island it was too large of an obstacle to avoid. Not having the island and light house in the terrain database was at least the primary contributor to the tragedy. The crew were effectively flying blind on instruments with inadequate obstacle identification. The first step is to ensure that all potential obstacles are immediately included and the next step is to identify why the obstacle was not in the terrain database.
May they rest in peace
Absolute gutter journalism with no regard or sensitivity to the two remaining missing crew members or their families.Reporting sensational snippets of a report with ‘ more to follow’ is incorrigible. Shame on you but then again would expect nothing less of the journal.ie.
@Fiona Sheridan Nunan: It’s an official release form the AAIU, it will be in all the media outlets not just the journal
Fiona, grow up, this country has hidden too many horrors over the years behind ‘righteousness’ we all deserve the truth no matter how difficult. Time is the healer in all this
@Fiona Sheridan Nunan: every other news media outlet has reported the exact same thing . .
Thumbs down
Think its rather insensitive to have a add for a credit union across this article please remove !!
Absolutely tragic
God love them… must be an awful feeling.
So sad. Please journal remove ads in the middle of this report. Maybe at finish maybe more appropriate.
Truly heartbreaking, hopefully the remaining crew found soon and brought home to their loved ones. I dont understand what is meant by “smoke in baggage” .
This is very upsetting reading, , , again RIP crew R116 ,
Why bother posting something like that, i think its a ‘click bait’ post maybe i am being a little bit sensitive due to the fact that i know members of the crew, remember that 2 crew members are still missing, a little bit of ‘savvy’ lads/ladies.
No need to send a special alert on the journal app for this story. Grief-vultures is what you are, desperately for clicks. No shame. Disgusting.
in all honesty why would the journal allow people to comment on this. these are the last words of people whose bravery you can’t understand. at some point some moron is going to make some reference to this being someones fault. leave their legacy alone. utter unconscionable morons.
@paddy: Don’t be asking for information like this to be censored, if this becomes the norm, the true reasons for these crashes will never be revealed.
@Jonny: we don’t live in Soviet russia. air accident investigations will always be made public. imagine if their families read some of these comments about pilot error. if you open articles about tragic and hugely upsetting accidents like this you are giving a platform for morons to comment. it’s not censorship it’s decency
@David Byrne: I haven’t seen anyone say that it was the fault of any of the crew members. Have you? The absence of a crucial piece of terrain data that ultimately was responsible for taking the lives of these selfless heroes is certainly somebody’s fault, but that is for the investigation to determine.
That’s makes a for a heart breaking read .. very sad indeed .
As insensed at this as I am for the Journal in reporting these harrowing last moments. Everyone including myself wanted to know exactly what happened. Now we know. Not nice at all is it. Brings it home the risk these humans take for others and how reliant on technology and machinery we are. Heros
2 vital pieces of information: The island wasn’t mapped on the crews database & Homing gps beacons were not fitted to the coastguard life jackets – utterly disgraceful & beyond understanding Rip
No need to report these words, there are families out there still waiting for news of their loved ones.
I must say, that transcript was really tough to read. The people that provide those services really are beyond brave. Those final moments don’t bear thinking.
Those poor souls. RIP.
Was it really necessary to put this “article” out as an alert? It’s very insensitive that this just popped up on people’s phones when it’s of absolutely no substance other than to garner morbid clicks.
Must have been horrible for them.
Inclined to agree you should take this down. Publish the preliminary report in full at least.
RTE has a proper report on their site !
@Cozy: I’m an ape for expressing an opinion. They’ve already ruled out mechanical failure. They also know that the helicopter struck the rocks on the Island. Going by the recording just released it sounds like a lot of confusion brought on by a sudden impact with the rocks that obviously the pilots didn’t see..
The pilots could never have seen them all was in total darkness. It was the avionics couldn’t see them, and that is down to a technical lack of data the cause of which lack is as yet unknown but that it appears clear was what killed them.
Shame on them for distributing the voice recorder evidence at this stage, it takes a long time to piece everything together and to know exactly what happened and the full circumstances of the incident
Only then, if appropriate should this be made public
This will give the families and friends of those who died no peace whatsoever
@Richard Costello: how do you know?
So Sad So sad . but True .changes hopefully will be made for it never to happen again . God Bless all of the Crew.
Please take this down!!
It’s chilling to read the last words of these poor people..it puts a lot of life’s trivialities into context..may they rest in peace
So sad :-(
So so sad, 4 hero’s lost , 2 souls still missing.one a son of Ballyfermot.
So sad. :(
Hard to read..hard to comprehend.. my heart is with them and those left behind x
God rest them so terribly sad for their poor families
Heartbreaking read…..RIP.
No need for this now. Is the journal now the online version of The Sun?
Not that it matters a fig now but I’ve noticed that all the reports since the accident have never mentioned who was the PIC, pilot in command or commander and who was the co-pilot. I was just wondering why.
Those data should not be revealed until the official findings are made. But whoever it was they hadn’t a hope out there in the storm in a whirlybird with bad avionics. Specifically, a bad terrain database in their ground warning system that didn’t know a lump of ground was in proximity because the map said there wasn’t any ground there.
@John O’Driscoll: There was no storm, a bit misty, otherwise good conditions. I just read the report on aaiu.ie. Any way, it was unfamiliar territory for both pilots as they asked each other when was the last time they landed there. That but mainly the missing obstacle hight profile information in their tcaws, that is just unbelievable.
@Declan Mannix: I know. I was using a bit of a metaphor. But given they were effectively blind thanks to bad data there may as well have been.
There are no words. Heartbreaking. Rest in Peace heroes.
Grainne ni Aoadh, whilst this may be an official release and serve purpose in certain circles what possible good can it do on a socail media platform. With open commentry. At least journal show some remorse by closing the comments section. There are still missing crew members to be found.
Consider it out pf a mark of respect.
@Maurice Quille: Sadly Maurice this site works lives and the young Journos on contract to get paid on click bait which you and me have just fallen for …#RaceToTheBottom
@Maurice Quille: Have you seen any comments on here that were in the slightest bit lacking in respect for the selfless crew members whose lives were lost in this tragedy?
Tact would not have gone amiss here…!
Ar dheis De go raibh a Anamacha
How was this huge rock obstacle not on the flight database?
I just hope and pray that the families of those on board were given a few days to digest this information before the parasites & vultures in the media were given it for us all to gore over
May the brave souls who were up in that machine at 2AM Rest In Peace and may those dissecting there last moments rot in hell
It seems there was confusion between , ` Blackrock` and `Blacksod`, and this is what led to the tragedy.
@Patrick James Walsh: it seems you haven’t read the report or the article. There is no indication anywhere that there was any confusion except in your own mind
@Y U no spell good?: Read between the lines, it`s obvious, it will come out.
@Patrick James Walsh: There was no confusion between the two. Read the report. Vital terrain information was missing from the onboard EGPWS. “Honeywell’s selected terrain and obstacle source data do not include Black Rock.”
.
Heartbroken
RIP. The blame game has commenced. Expect a lot of deflection both emotive and commercial. Hopefully the facts will get out in the interest of future coast guarding.
@Bill ORourke: I don’t see any blame game. Do you expect such tragedies to go uninvestigated?
Poor tasteless need for the piss poor click bait hungry immature editorial challenged Journal staff. Harrowing in fact. I hope it was quick and painless is the only intimated comfort that could be garnered from that sensationalist gossip
Huge loss to family and country,genuine innocent question but why would you fly so low?Flying over the water in daylight is difficult so why fly low altitude at night?It wasn’t like a military flight off radar.
Very poor taste.
Sad to read ,why no homing beacons on life jackets ? God help the families hope the remains are recovered of the two crew members .Those that put their lives on the line to save other people must be equipped with the most modern items to help them do their job safely .Should be no question about cutbacks or average equipment .Also i include all the volunteers who give up their time to help others without reward or recognition.
The headline on the article is completely tasteless. Sensationalist like you’d find in “the sun” or equivalent type of rag. It is an important story, and should be treated with respect. A headline referring to the incomplete map data or some other technical aspect might be more appropriate.
A lighthouse and island not in a database for rescue aircraft!!!!How in this day and age is this even allowed to happen. Heads should roll for the sheer incompetence shown here. This was a tragic waste of life. These people put their lives on the line everyday doing their job. They didn’t have a chance if equipment they were using was not up to speed.
I can’t help asking, was the lighthouse not shining ? If it was, surly it could have been seen from miles away, or at least many hundreds of meters ? If it wasn’t shining, why not ? Listening to the radio this morning, there is much analysis going on, what the status of the lighthouse has been glossed over as simply “operational”. I think this is an important question.
@Anthony Byrne: If it was it would be a ‘sector light’, shining only in a specified arc which can be seen by vessels at particular co-ordinates.
If you are out at sea and you check the chart and then see the correct light flash sequence it assures you that you are in the correct position.
The island is 80M elevation asL. Crucial to have that topographic Data on Nautical mapping system. One of major contributing factors to the impact.
Do pilot error according to transcripts
Sweet Jesus, there is something macarbe about giving pilots maps that delete obstacles that can lead to the planes colliding…..Lily of the Valley give comfort and solace to all concerned.
@Cosmo Kramer: are you simple or have you been living under a rock?
What hasn’t the actual reason for the mission been released? I just hope that whatever “emergency” there was, it genuinely necessitated the mobilisation of a rescue helicopter.
@Mark Dunne: it was. They were top cover for a medical emergency.
So terribly sad– god help all the families..
R.I.P.
For those arguing everyone should be able to read final moments of the crew, there seems confusion with the expression ‘ public interest ‘ . ‘In the public interest’ should by no means be synonymous with ‘whatever interests the public’ .
Hard to argue the actual transcript is something the public need to know.
Heroes all – RIP
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