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TALK ABOUT WATER charges hasn’t gone away, you know.
Over the weekend, the issue was back in the headlines, with news the government aims to give people back their money by the end of the year.
This wasn’t unheard of – the idea of refunding water charges this year had already been floated by Taoiseach Leo Varadkar during the Fine Gael leadership contest.
It is estimated that nearly one million customers paid some or all of their water charges before they were discontinued. And they all need to get their money back.
How much should I get back?
Householders who live alone and who paid their five bills will be entitled to €200, while those who live in a household of more than one person will be entitled to €325.
In total, the government has to pay back in and around €160 million.
When should I get my money back?
Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government Eoghan Murphy told RTÉ yesterday that he intends to refund the majority of payments by the end of 2017.
Government sources confirmed that this should begin before October’s Budget. The majority should have their money back by Christmas.
However, it’s understood that some repayments might take a little longer.
Why will some cases take longer?
Some cases are more complicated due to some people having moved house. All these issues and how to handle these refunds is still being worked out.
Where’s the money coming from?
There has been a lot of speculation about where the money for the refunds is going to come from. The previous minister, Simon Coveney, said refunds would have to be considered in the budgetary context. Then there were reports that refunds could stretch out over a two-year period, and other reports in the last year said it could be part of a tax rebate.
It’s now clear that the money is not going to come from Budget 2018 funds, but from a “separate envelope”, as one government source stated.
The government is currently doing a big spending review and it is believed that it will come up with some savings. Government officials are also in talks with the EU Commission to ensure that we can make a “one-off payment” under the EU fiscal rules.
It’s all very complicated and a bit of a mess.
The Minister for Employment and Social Protection Regina Doherty has admitted that the issue of the refund of all water charges has not yet been discussed in detail by the Cabinet.
Earlier, the Minister for Education and Skills Richard Bruton said the money for the refunds will come from within existing resources.
Sports Minister Shane Ross told reporters today that he is completely in favour of people being treated equally when it comes to water charge refunds, saying that while he would be reluctant to see his department’s budget reduced to ensure repayments are made, he added:
If we all have to pay our fair share, we all have to pay our fair share.
What about the water grant?
Once the news about the water charges refunds was out, of course the next question being asked relates to the €100 water conservation grant that was paid out.
Prior to Irish Water bills coming through the letter box, householders were urged to sign up to the water conservation grant of €100.
While the Oireacthas Committee on water charges agreed the water conservation grant should be deducted from any refunds given to householders, it has since emerged that it is unlikely the water conservation grant will be deducted any refunds.
The details are being worked out over the summer, but it is understood the grant was a separate payment than that of water charges, and will be treated as such.
At the launch of the national drug strategy, Varadkar noted the government said deducting the grant from water charge refunds would be “logistically and legally very difficult”.
Basically, deducting one from the other could prove to be a lot of trouble.
So how much was paid out for the water conservation grant?
Figures released last year to Fianna Fáil’s Barry Cowen show 887,010 householders – slightly more than half of those eligible – claimed their €100 grant.
The total cost of the water conservation grant was €94 million, according to the Department of Social Protection.
The total administration costs were €5,782,035.42, bringing the total cost to €94,483,035.
Is Irish Water being abolished?
No, Irish Water is here to stay. The single water utility will remain, but it’s believed we’ll be having a referendum on the issue of enshrining the utility into public ownership.
When is new law going to be introduced?
While as recently as June, the government was saying the Water Services Bill would be published before the summer recess, it will now be dealt with in the autumn. Until then, water charges continue to be suspended.
And what will the new law contain?
It should contain recommendations made by committee which found that water charges should still apply for excessive amounts of water.
What is excessive usage?
The committee said excessive usage is 70% above the average household use.
The average individual usage has been set at 133 litres per person per day.
It recommended that the Commission of Energy Regulation should determine the average consumption levels and that excessive usage should be based on 1.7 times the average household usage.
The legislation will also have to provide for allowances in extraordinary circumstances such as medical conditions and above average household size that falls beyond the threshold allowance and taking into consideration that average usage is 133 litres per person per day.
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The Taoiseach seems happy to spend money on absolutely anything but where it’s needed.
@P Quinn: ignoring the fact that the US fund these security costs.
@Shawn O’Ceallaghan: are you saying the trip won’t cost us anything? Just checking, as Trump is known for not paying up
@P Quinn: Stick Trump on a trolley in a hallway instead?
Look,
Leo, this is your chance to show the world that Ireland has grown up.
Make no fuss, no bells and whistles and just do what a strong, together nation needs to do.
The Irish people can welcome him or protest but I would like the Government that represents me to do nothing only the essentials when this guy visits.
He has his own gaf, so let him use it.
The Gardai, the Defence forces are getting paid anyway so just reallocate the resources we have and so keeping the costs to a minimum.
If the money can be found to pander to this tool, then you should use it where it is really needed.
Come on Leo….. make a real difference.
@Martin Stapleton: Yeah right. Just the same we did when the boss of world biggest pedophile mafia visited recently. We really showed him what a modern forward thinking nation we are.
Can’t his secret service look after him
Problem solved.
@Alan Cummins: Yea there first reaction is usually shoot first ask no questions later.
@Alan Cummins: He’s just too toxic…
If it costs €10M it is still a small fraction of the taxes paid by US companies in Ireland every year. We should welcome him and express our views but remember that he will face an election in two years and maybe gone but the United States will still be our friend. Why sour relations with a democracy because of prejudice and disapproval of his policies. Wake up and smell the coffee.
He wants to pull those companies out of Ireland and back to the US and the CEO’s of most of them can’t stand him.. neither can most Americans. Canceling the invite would be more in our interests..
I personally have no problem with the US president coming here if it will benefit Ireland in some way with trade agreements, but are we the tax payers not allowed to have a say on where the money is being spent, our government didn’t listen to the economists when they advised on the last crash and how there are warning in place again. Time to wake up.
Welcome to ireland trump, your doong a great job, and providing local jobs in doonbeg to the people of west clare, a statue should be built for you with all the money your puumping into the area.
Hail hail.
@Paul: don’t forget we the tax payer paid £30m towards his hotel and golf course……
aha, yes NAMA sold him that hotel for a £30m discount of which we still owe Germany for. Thank you NAMA for burdening us with this debt we didn’t ask for.
@Gareth Cooney: lol! Your right but hardly Trumps fault that, when the shit was against the fan ten years ago people did nothing and took the screwing over, only ourselves to blame.
People should use their energy protesting against worthwhile issues not a dopey American President coming to town for a night or two.
On a different note , I wonder how much the Americans spend on Leo’s security when he pops over for Paddy’s Day!?
@Hardly Normal: And when they do like they’re doing in Waterford at the moment they get pulled apart on social media for being done scroungers etc despite no evidence whatsoever.
OMG , It’s NOT like my beloved government to squander money , they normally keep a very close eye on hard working tax payers money……just saying
This issue raised its head when the Pope visited also. Whatever we might think of someone’s policies- this simple rule applies:
If we invite them- we pay.
If they invite us- they pay.
You don’t invite someone over for dinner and tell them to bring the food, do you?
International relations and protocol are the same.
@OpenMinded: that should be the norm, but we invite the pope and pay 32million taxpayers money for the privilege, to the richest ‘nation’ in the world, lucky us.
@Sean O’Reilly: and our ‘government’ shuts down 159 community services nationwide in 31 counties…
Get Noonan to pay for it,I’m sure after the last time and the red carpet he can even afford the dancing girls.
Rubbish, they will do their own security, he has his own hotel, they have effective control of Shannon for their troop movements, & instead of protesting, let’s just ignore the charade.
A Captain Boycott policy would be ideal.
@William Kelly: or we could a #plaidshirtguy silent but effective protest!
Can’t the secret service look after him.
Problem solved.
Cheap lazy journalism.
Seems to me this disgusting clown has actually invited himself to Ireland, not because he gives a damn about a country that alledgly stock piles millions in profits away from the IRS (According to himself anyway) but this is more about deflection from his troubles at home. “I know, I’ll go to Ireland, they love American Presidents, I’ll get lots of good press coverage etc etc”, the man has a warped sense of reality and I cannot phathom why every single Irish politician can’t just be away, out of the country, sick, anything to give this horrible man the welcome he deserves.
@Joseph Dempsey: Welcome President Trump. Your economy is booming resulting from your tax changes, more money in the pockets of working class Americans , Tax cut for small businesses has enabled them to grow and start recruiting again after years of struggling under Obama who spent his time drone bombing innocent people. GDP is at 4% where it never rose above2% with Obama.Highest numbers of Women and Blacks working ever. AITS all about the economy stupid and you are found a good job, who cares what the permanently outraged snowflakes outrage over nothing has to say. People care about real things.
@Ger Murphy: Live there do you?
What about spending a few millions on housing?
Well worth it as the American put roughly 320bn into this country with the company’s here every year
How many homeless people could have a roof over their heads for the amount of money to be spent on that clown visiting here.
@Jonathan Broderick: I was waiting for the first homeless obsessed comment to arrive.
@Jonathan Broderick: Very few compared to what it cost us to welcome boss of the biggest pedophile ring in the world. That would solve the housing crisis for years to come.
Where will the money go to? Will it leave the country?
@Pajo Mata: the gardai will see the majority of this money in their overtime costs because it certainly won’t be the defence forces.
Got to laugh, or cry – Varadkar told reporters yesterday that “Protests rarely change things in my experience”
Ah well, so much for democratic process, let’s see the protest vote at the election booths Leo.
@wattsed: “Protests rarely change things in my experience”. Really ? Have you forgotten Irish Water already ? Protest killed that doozy. And don’t forget the ultimate protest occurs at the ballot box……
Most expensive tax contribution to what is a free world advertisement for Trump Doonbeg – otherwise nothing in it for president trump to visit here
Our incompetent gov is costing the country billions.
Politicians bankrupting the country, then manipulating the property market to get themselves out of trouble and causing a housing crisis in the process.
With any luck he’ll do a Yeltsin and stay on the plane.
Considering the billions upon billions of foreign direct investment that American companies, and tourists, contribute to Ireland, any money spent to facilitate U.S. President Trump’s visit to Ireland is more than worth it.
Imagine what the publicity stateside will be for Ireland inc. seven million, lol!
@Shane Zerbe: if our government spend sometime on the housing crisis
@trebloc01: is it true that most of our government ministers are landlords?
Trump is not wanted , we already wasted millions having the pope .
Spend the money on a new hospital? More ambulances? Homeless crisis ? The list goes on
What BS, country paying millions so he can visit his Clare business interests safely. Boggling!
This Is very simple, if you have several million euro to indulge this moron for a day rather than use that money on homelessness or health care then you need to resign immediately. Tell him to get lost.
He’s only popping in to check on his golf course get him to pay
With all the money Trump is reported to have ,let him pay the bill himself,,this is like a fairy tale,with the budget due and they are warning of cutbacks,how in gods name is it going to cost millions,with the bill for the popes visit just gone now we have this other million euro holiday for Trump,,
The people of Ireland should say enough is enough no more waste if public money
Atleast my taxes will be spent on something worthwhile for once . Go Trump . Cant wait to see them all licking up to him after slagging him off for 2 years , liberal losers.
@John Porridge: i’m sure that it will be the best 10c of tax that you have ever paid \O/ ,yah right-wing loser :-)
@Francis Mc Carthy: hi Francis , thanks for your wonderful comment . I take it you are looking forward to seeing the Donald . Kisses and hugs sweetie …
Disgusting people lieing on trolleys in hospitals people sleeping on the streets and he’s doing what he likes with tax payers money this government is obnoxious
Here we go again! Last month the Popes visit …nasty comments posted, Trumps visit has no fundraisers unlike the Papal Visit. It will cost us more. Let the lads who comment on this Journal App have a field day. Its set up to give the illusion of informative journalism…welcome one and all.
lets face it -this entire visit is about two massively big headed egotists — leo and trump ! leo loves the publicity ,the photo shoots ,meeting the ‘celebrities ‘ – trump just loves the publicity – neither of them give a hoot about their countries or the citizens of their countries , both are far more interested in their own little worlds — when this pair of self obsessed clowns actually meet up the headlines should read “THE EGO’S HAVE LANDED “!
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