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IT’S BEEN A long road. But after three long years of protests and climb-downs, the government is to begin refunding water charges.
Housing Minister Eoghan Murphy said yesterday that Irish Water customers, regardless of how they made their payment, will get cheques in the post by Christmas.
Depending on what people paid, it could be a cheque of up to €300.
In total, the government will hand back over €173 million in refunds, and it will cost around €5 million in admin costs to do so.
Prior to Irish Water bills coming through the nation’s letterboxes, householders were urged to sign up to the water conservation grant of €100.
The government said the grant was a standalone, separate grant for all households whether they were Irish Water customers or not.
The minister said yesterday that it was separate from domestic water charges, and aimed at encouraging water conservation in the home.
While it had been flagged some months back that the water conservation grant might be deducted from any refunds given to householders, Murphy said this is not now possible.
The grant “was not linked to Irish Water charges”, he said, adding that the two databases are not held by the same agency. Therefore there are some cases where people who did not pay their water charges, but who claimed the grant, will have benefitted from a €100 pay out from the exchequer.
How much was paid out?
Figures released last year to Fianna Fáil’s Barry Cowen showed 887,010 householders – slightly more than half of those eligible – claimed their €100 grant. The total cost of the water conservation grant was €94 million.
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“If I was to deduct the water conservation grant from the refund bill I would be penalising those who paid their bills,” the minister said yesterday. He said the Oireachtas committee’s report on water charges said everyone was to be treated equally “so I can’t do that”.
What happens with charges now?
While the minister said he hopes the legislation needed to bring about refunds is passed quickly, a new charging regime will kicks in in the new year.
“The monitoring of people’s use under the excessive charging regime will begin in 2018 and they will be monitored for a full year to the end of 2019.
“Those people who have been deemed by the company [Irish Water] to be using a wasteful amount of water above the excessive amount will then be notified at the beginning of 2019.
“They will be given a six month notice period by which they can reduce their use. f they haven’t done that by six months they will be then be charged for excessive wasteful use for that six month period,” he said.
The first charge will be levied in July 2019.
What is excessive usage?
The Oireachtas committee on water charges said excessive usage should be based on 1.7 times the average household usage. It’s report set the average individual usage at 133 litres per person per day.
However, the minister said the Commission of Energy Regulation will actually determine the average consumption levels of a person per day, stating that it might be above the 133 litre figure.
The level will be finalised by the minister when he brings legislation to Cabinet next week.
The new laws will also have to provide for allowances in extraordinary circumstances such as medical conditions and above average household size.
While Fine Gael might be happy to see the back of this part in their history, the minister conceded yesterday that this new regime is not what his party want.
He said Fine Gael believed in the principle that people should pay for water. Murphy said the scrapping of the current water charges regime was one of the sticking points in the negotiations to form a government last year.
As a result, he said he has to put a process in place to refund charges and also discuss with the Minister for Finance the future mechanisms of funding Irish Water out of the exchequer.
“We would rather not do that. We believe there should be a consistent funding stream for domestic water users into Irish Water, not just for conservation purposes, but because it makes sense economically and we can’t do that now.
In the coming weeks as we get close to the Budget, you will hear politicians talking about spending money in different areas. Those same politicians who made a decision to cut off this funding stream. I am not happy to do it but we have to do it.
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Thank God I kept my water protest placards in the attic with the Christmas decorations, had a feeling they’d come in handy again some day.
Time to clear the wax out of Fine Gael’s ears.
@Emmet Dillane: Would marching to demand that the €180 odd million, this is going to cost, invested in mental health services, or addressing the homeless crisis instead be an idea or will we just continue to pay lip service to those issues?
@Eyepopper: if you think that money was going to be spent on the things you mentioned above, you haven’t been paying much attention in the last six years.
@Emmet Dillane: well this time at least have the decency to not block up the city centre and cut four hours off the time I get to spend at my mom’s, would you? There’s a good boy.
@Neal Ireland Hello.:
All those demonstrations were well advertised weeks in advance.
It is your own fault that you did not take appropriate measures to visit your mom in a prompt and timely fashion,you should be grateful to the protesters that they took the trouble and expense to protest and in result spare your mother the expense hassle and aggravation of constant water charge bills. Even if you are not grateful I’m sure your mother is.
@Tom Harpur: If you knew anything about statistics, you would know that a threshold set slightly above average usage will actually cause a large percentage of the population to have to pay. In the same way that if there was a tax for excessive eyes, all people with 2 eyes would be billed because the average is ever so slightly less than 2. Time to open your eyes!
Oh and before the little FG sycophants faint in the aisle with their ‘you object to charges for excess?’ BS. The dogs in the street know its irish water meteting commodifying and selling water to ‘customers’ by the back door….
@The Risen: If they want to adapt the same principles as in almost every developed country in the world then you and the ‘dogs in the street’ are wrong.
Was IW set up incorrectly and the whole process managed terribly? Yes!
Is metering water required to deliver the best possible water service? Yes!
Should people pay for the water through metering? Yes!
Should people pay for water through taxation too? No!
@Andy K: but we all know our taxes won’t be reduced by said amount ! That’s because we know they can’t be trusted with anything. And why can’t we pay for water as we always did ? Because they bailed private banks. Just think what could be done with 8 billion in interest each year !
@MK76: The proof you want is simple. You judge them on their past e.g. constantly lying to the public, looking after their rich banker friends, constant U turns, that’s just a few things but I’m sure you get the message.
@Fiona deFreyne: Amen. Time to get my matching shoes on. Actually, I’m now more annoyed that our elected government is so arrogant that it thinks it can ignore an electorate who clearly and firmly voted against this cràp than I am about water charges.
@Danny foley: Ireland uses 20% less per capita than England, where households are metered. Its not about conservation, its about establishing a billing system prior to privatisation.
@The Risen: then a campaign to insist on a referendum on the Irish people owning Irish water is needed. People need to make this one of the top issue’s of the next GE.
Who gets to say what is the correct usage? The sand people who can alter that figure to suit their agenda! And that’s Getting everyone to pay for water!
@Danny foley: how about the excess involved in their Irish Water fiasco to date? Who’s getting charged for that excess? How many litres could that have funded?
@Danny foley: you are a fool if you think this is anything else but keeping the billing system and payments alive and well, if they can bill and we accept it they have a billing system which will increase over time like everything else, it needs to stop and no usage billing or billing of any sort simple
@Danny foley: speaking of, em,, wasters , eh. Please do one lad, it’s a little early in the morning to be listening to the, sour grapes, of the defeated, ?. Next please. .
@Patrick J. O’Rourke: you didn’t expect anything different did you? Politics is a mechanism to outsmart the masses, its always has been and always will be. Charges weren’t abolished they made a tactical retreat in order to make come back in a more subtle and slow way that will unseen until its too late: it’ll capture the few and the many will think ah well they waste water I don’t until at some point in time more people are being charged than not and then it’s too late.
I have a letter here dated 8th June 2016 from a guy called Eamon Gallen – Head of ‘Customer’ operations telling me that I have an ‘overdue account’ of €324.64
I actually have it framed.
However I am now thinking that I need another less threatening letter to tell me that I do not actually owe a private company the sum of €324.64
How should I go about that ?
@Karen Doyle: I care – I have a piece of paper looking for money.
I would call it an extortion attempt or demanding money with menaces not anything to do with being pedantic.
So this will mean i will be billed for water no matter how much i use as because my mains cant be metered due to the mains being in my back garden and they wont bw able to tell how much water i use. Hmmm i can feel a court case coming on
@Cathal P Forde: oh relax cathal. Obviously in some instances they recognise that will need to accommodate issues that are out of the householders control
@Peadar Ó Gréacháin: they’ll just do what they do in places that have had water charges for ever: there’ll be a no reading meter charge that, surprise surprise, just happens to be the exact same amount as as the excess usage charge. Water Authorities have been there, done that, over 70 years or more. There’s nothing they haven’t seen and haven’t got a strategy for dealing with.
Who would oppose water wasters being charged for their irresponsible stupidity and greed, I have no problem with that kind of system. We also need a referendum on the Irish nation owning our water supply forever and a day.
@Danny foley: true, water charges haven’t gone away they’ve just had a mechanism installed that can ramp up gradually by lowering the excessive water use threshold. Very subtle and very clever
@Boganity:
Many people saw through this ruse from the very beginning, typical FF duplicity.
Back to the good old days of FF ‘feeding the mushrooms’ tactic from Cowen and friends.
There may be many justified and compelling reasons why much higher than average water consumption may be required in certain households fir medical and associated reasons. Will this be allowed for?
@Fiona deFreyne: There were no allowances made for my special needs son before, I don’t expect there to be this time either. Sick, disabled, elderly, carers… all easy targets because they don’t have the will to fight another battle and many are easily intimidated into paying.
“Oh sure, I’ll moan about the homeless crisis, and i’ll complain about 10 people a week killing themselves, but nothing will make me shout louder than them trying to charge me €3 a week to have clean water pumped to my house!”
@Eyepopper: how about shouting about the 8 billion being spent on debt interest to bail private banks – and having no money for water housing and hospitals! – and having yet more tax breaks for the corporates.
@Eyepopper:
All part of the same agenda. Fact is the only people who care about homelessness and austerity caused suicides are the very same people who marched against the water charge.
I have been on a number of anti homelessness marches long before it has now become a trendy cause among some middle of the road people, long before the mainstream media would even report on it Just like the Indo etc, would not give the true figures for the protesters against the water charge.
@Martin Critten: Sadly Martin you are wasting your time. There’s just no accounting for stupid. The government pisses away billions yet some how the water protesters are to blame.
Stupid people like Eyepopper here thinks it’s just about “€3 euro week for clean water pumped into your house”.
@Eyepopper: I seem to remember when they started the property tax scam shatter said what are people complaining about it’s only 2e a week. Do you see where this is going? On average it’s about 12e a week now. Do not trust these blueboys.
Did anybody else spit put their coffee at the part where the government claims that data being held by two separate agencies made it impossible to link the grant and the water bill payments?
Irish Water needs to be shut down. Why should we pay for their huge salaries and company cars. This has nothing to do with conservation. If the government thinks this will slide they are in for a rude awakening. shut down irish water and move the responsibility back to the councils. what was the 3-4 billion euros spent on?
It has always been obvious that the so called “excessive use charge” was a trogan horse for the water charge to be imposed.
Fianna Fáil saw this as a way of keeping the FG govt in power and avoiding an actual election, while pretending to abolish the actual charge, which they promised to do at the last election.
This charge will badly hit families and disabled people who have to use large quantities of water each day, necessary to live their basic lives.
@Zossima: if all of us who pay what we are told to pay grow a spine as you say and stop paying, where will money come from to fund the state on a day to day basis. You know, things like schools, hospitals, social welfare recipients, public sector workers etc. Can you enlighten me on your proposal for how the state should generate revenue rather than through all these different taxes?
@Neville Bartos: Come on guys – where will the money for the consultants come from = €50 million
Where will the money for the metering program which will not even pay for the metering program come from ?
If only half of the planned meters have been installed, are they suggesting that they charge half of the population for alleged excessive use and while other half’s usage can’t be measured?
Another half-baked solution in a desperate attempt to prop up a half-baked company.
I have never had any communication with this money grab. I am not and never will be a customer. I did not take a bribe . My position will not change now or ever. This bankers tax needs killing. Now Fu(k of FF FG LIEBOUR and the quango IW …
@Willy Malone: Never registered, never paid a dime and did not take their grant bribe. I am not a customer of IW so their excessive bill will not bother me much.
@The Journal TD: must be all those private swimming pool that people were filling from the tap. You know the ones that Enda, Leo and kelly were telling us all about. The ones that Irish water now say dont exist.
i thought FF were committed to getting rid of Irish Water
“Fianna Fáil is committed to:
Abolishing Irish Water
Suspending water charges
Investing in infrastructure
Returning services to democratic local councils under a national framework”
Oh here come the soundbites of the defeated, placards at the ready, for whatever shite they throw next,, and they will, !! . At the risk is sounding like someone who, knows what they are talking about, em, we already pay for it, Not a penny more will I pay, or did I, no refund needed at this, abode, …
Wedges and thin ends come to mind. This arrogant Government are really taking us for fools. Any type of back door charges or ” average usage” should be made a major election issue next time. NO WAY TO STEALTH BILLING.
We have already given a clear message last time. Do they want a repeat of street demos to emphasise the point ?
Whoever is pushing for this, is politically suicidal…
Time for a referendum on water services charging models – in a democracy we can’t have 0.4% of the population taking to the streets and dictating policy for everyone else.
What next, doubling the scratch?
What do you reckon the most honest figure to guage support for charges is alpha. The 0.4% who marched (BS by the way, there was up to 200,000 on the countrywide protest) or the 71% who didn’t pay?
Saw a documentary recently, Water and Power: a Californian Heist, about privatization of water. It was scary stuff. This is the road our idiot clueless politicians are leading us down.
@Aidan O’Donovan: You keep your bribe. Along with your contract and billing details voluntary submitted to a private company whose customer you become.
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