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Water charges are going nowhere, says European Commission

It has said that Ireland changed its ‘established practice’ under a Fianna Fáil-led government in 2010.

THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION (EC) has said that Ireland is no longer exempt from water charges.

In a statement today, the commission confirmed a view that it outlined to TheJounal.ie earlier this month. 

What this boils down to is whether or not water charges is the established practice in Ireland, or if paying through general taxation is.

With the EC viewing water charges as the norm, Ireland will now be in breach of European law should it remove the charges.

In a response to a parliamentary question asked by Irish independent MEP Marian Harkin, European Commissioner for the Environment, Karmenu Vella points to the implementation of the river basin management plan in 2010 under a Fianna Fáil-led government as the moment established practice passed the point of no return.

This river basin management plan did not have water charges as its sole objective – but rather focused on hitting the environmental objectives of the EU’s Water Framework Directive.

Back before then, Ireland would have been in a better position to wriggle through the ‘established practice’ loophole in getting out of implementing the charges.

In his response, Commissioner Vella said that the Directive: “Does not provide for a situation whereby it can revert to any previous practice.”

Already parties on the opposition benches disagree with the EC’s assessment – with Sinn Féin and Fianna Fáil contending Ireland’s established practice is for water to be paid for through general taxation.

Ireland could still potentially challenge the European Commission’s stance at the European Court of Justice.

The government’s current position is to suspend water charges for nine months and establish a commission to explore alternatives.

Read: Joan Burton has a lot to say about Enda Kenny’s ‘cop-out’ on abortion

Also: “Bullying the populace into submission” – TDs aren’t happy about Enda’s comments on water charges

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203 Comments
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    Mute Funfair
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:10 PM

    What about sorting out the inflated VRT we have to pay and we’ll talk about paying our water

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    Mute Alex Murray
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:19 PM

    vrt is against european law and that doesn’t seem to bother them so why all the fuss about water

    535
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    Mute ben
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:28 PM

    What will the Eu do if we don’t pay it..

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    Mute Gerry Ryan deG
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:28 PM

    Important friends waiting impatiently for the privatisation

    381
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    Mute Ted Logan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:33 PM

    I don’t think the majority have any issue paying for water. It’s paying for it 2 or 3 times where the problem is.
    And to be expected to pay for a super quango like Irish Water that irks people. Inflated wages, guaranteed bonuses and a model where it costs to collect payments what they would receive in payments.

    363
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    Mute M Bowe
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:38 PM

    The fuss is that VRT cannot be privatised and sold on to generate profit for the elites at some stage in future.

    309
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    Mute Rodger 5
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:45 PM

    Nail on head

    124
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    Mute Zossima
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:36 PM

    We talked about water and said no. How would they like if we started talking about an exit of our own instead

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    Mute kevinhunt101
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:58 PM

    So the uk can now decide Ther own systems inc vrt etc ?

    74
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    Mute Niall Donnelly
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:07 PM

    And you wonder why Britain is leaving?

    466
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    Mute Ricky Spanish
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:14 PM

    Why are you blaming the EU? Our govt agreed to the water directive. This type of blaming europe nonsense has contributed to the state the UK is in.

    125
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    Mute Welshhibby
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:15 PM

    For all the people laughing at the UK leaving this is why you clowns

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    Mute Daffy the Bear
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:21 PM

    @Ricky… I think it’s fair to apportion blame to the EU for imposing the directive to begin with. This kind of interference in the governance of independent member states is not what the EU was originally (ostensibly) intended for. They continue to undemocratically breach their remit; this is partly the reason the Brits voted to leave abd why anti-EU sentiment is on the rise across the continent..

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    Mute Bobby Phelan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:22 PM

    Ff fg and liebour have really sold us down the tubes that bank bailout is going to come back and haunt you sellouts.I want out to amd I want a united Ireland now

    182
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    Mute Joe Mc
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:28 PM

    I want out too. I don’t want to be ruled by German dictats. Eu is dying and that’s why gb got out.

    216
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    Mute Simone Hackett
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:32 PM

    The Netherlands and many eu countries if not all pay water charges for donkey’s years… Why should Ireland be omitted for paying for water… It is after all a service… Water is sanitized and pumped to your house/workplace… Please tell me why should this service be free? Who do you think will pay for this?

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    Mute meL-In033
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:35 PM

    You on the Brussels payroll there Simone?

    221
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    Mute Brendan McGill
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:38 PM

    Who do you think payed for it all along Simone… WE DID!

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    Mute Tony Hartigan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:38 PM

    Ricky Spanish because these guys are so thick they can’t grasp the fact we do pay for water and not going to pay twice.

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    Mute alan nolan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:40 PM

    We already pay through taxation simone.

    183
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    Mute Simone Hackett
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:40 PM

    @mel no I just don’t understand why Irish people think they are owed this service for free

    22
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    Mute M Bowe
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:42 PM

    Irish water has always been subsidised by the public purse, it has even been shown to fail all assessments by EU as a fully funded entity by charges alone, so therefore it always has been and is still the established practice to be paid for from general taxation. Who do they think they are fooling????

    176
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    Mute Charlie Fogarty
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:42 PM

    Portugal has decriminalized drugs.Germany has free 3rd level education. Sweden introduces a 6 hour work day.

    Odd these examples are never used for our policy making.

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    Mute Richard Cronin
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:43 PM

    Because Simone in Ireland we already pay for water through taxation, so why should we pay twice. IW is nout more than a quango that will be sold off to somebody like Dennis o Brian for buttons then the rates will be hiked up. If water charges are dictated by the EU then why was the taxation stopped & semi state owned body protected by the constitution (like the post office for instance) created instead. The EU blanket laws should be scraped as they have little effect on a continent as such diverse as Europe, I hope this clarifies this for you somewhat.

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    Mute Fergal McDonagh
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:45 PM

    Quit trolling ‘Simone’

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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:46 PM

    Its water Simone, everybody deserves water. I don’t u understand why main land europeans love tax and charges so much,

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    Mute Dave Murray
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:47 PM

    You might be happy paying for water more than once, Simone, but I along with many others in this country are not happy with doing that. Good luck to you.

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    Mute Michael Joyce
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:48 PM

    Ars u stupid we dont think it should be free hence fecking paying for it already so cop stop looking for a rise from people with ur stupid comments

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    Mute Michael Joyce
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:51 PM

    We dont think it should be free as we already pay for it so feck off

    91
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    Mute Simone Hackett
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:52 PM

    @richard thanks for your clear detailed response. Is it transparent that it is included in the general taxation? I know it is difficult to compare Ireland to the nl but in the nl we pay high taxation 49-52% and in addition pay city taxes, property tax as well as water charges. The Dutch are not going out on protests over this… I’m just curious as to why this is such a problem in Ireland when other countries have been paying high taxes and charges for years…

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    Mute Richard Cronin
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:04 PM

    Simone you go into a bar & order a beer & you pay for it, then just before you take a sip you are charged again. We just don’t like being taken advantage of, simple as.

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    Mute Polly Dolan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:08 PM

    Because it our bloody water! Our country! And more to the point our money again.

    114
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    Mute Simone Hackett
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:09 PM

    But is it transparent that Irish water charges are included in the general taxes?

    14
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    Mute Mary Murphy
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:11 PM

    Have you seen how many taxes are on our payslips Simone??. If you did you would understand how pissed off we are being ripped off in this country. Then we have VRT of thousands on new cars. Petrol is actually three times the cost of it per gallon because of another tax.

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    Mute Bryan Kelly
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:36 PM

    Before the FF government decided to throw out the waiver we received from the EU which exempted us from water charges (seriously lads, did you read the article, it’s in black & white that the EU is now simply saying we no longer have that exemption because our own TDs threw it away, nothing’s stopping Enda & Co negotiating another…if they wanted to) a portion of several Irish taxation systems were ring fenced for the provision of services and maintenance to water infrastructure. This set up was the reason we received the exemption in the first place.

    Now we’re being told that we have to pay directly because the system needs major overhaul. Well we were all paying those taxes, so it wasn’t on our end that the money wasn’t going to water infrastructure. Someone, somewhere wasn’t using that tax money for its legislated purpose. But instead of heads rolling in the Dáil the only answer our incompetent, tax-grubbing politicians can come up with is to make us pay for it…again.

    67
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    Mute Tony Hartigan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:39 PM

    Simone you don’t seem to understand but we do pay for water

    67
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    Mute Ollie O'Brien
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:51 PM

    and so do we…in fact we pay it twice Simone actually many other eu countries don’t , please educate yourself ,for ur children sake at the very least

    53
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    Mute Ollie O'Brien
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:54 PM

    Will ya drop it , ya don’t live here either , ur just a bad troll

    49
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    Mute Ollie O'Brien
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:57 PM

    Yes had been transparent since the 70s , and really , does it have to be as transparent as you ,not off with you petty ed troll

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:37 PM

    Bryan – can you or someone produce evidence \ signed document from 2010? FG/LAB didn’t re-apply. Look at Kelly – he took on that portfolio as he had an agenda.

    21
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    Mute Simone Hackett
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:46 PM

    Why are you so nasty? I have not been abusive at all to you.

    10
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    Mute Ollie O'Brien
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:53 PM

    Oh boohoo , inept Irish woman leeching off the useless eu social studies grants throws victim card when taken to task ,

    39
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    Mute Bryan Kelly
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:00 PM

    I might be a tad naive to be taking the EU/Article’s word for that one alright, but in fairness…go google it yourself.

    Honestly I don’t care which government did it. Fact is: It was IRISH TDs who threw away the exemption. It was IRISH TDs & Councils who didn’t use the taxes for their legally mandated purpose. And if they didn’t…if all that money actually went 100% on Easter infrastructure, the it was still IRISH politicians who clearly paid good money to IRISH contractors who did such a dodgy job were now told the system is 100 years old.

    But look at all the people blaming Europe for this. Folks…this is exactly what Farage et al did in the UK. Deflect attention from the homegrown politicians & bankers who were the real ones to screw us over, and look, it worked. Kenny got back in and there’s still Bertie supporters, while the UK just shot itself in the foot.

    The EU didn’t force water charges on us, our own did. And they did it with the fervour of a rabid pit bull if you haven’t forgotten the arrogant, threatening, and condescending way our elected representatives reacted to water protests with nothing but utter scorn and contempt until it finally dawned on them just how big it was.

    I know there’s this Omar of the EU as this draconian figure forcing edicts on the less powerful members. Our government ignored a human rights directive from them for 20 YEARS. If water charges become reality, it’ll be because our government wants them.

    29
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    Mute Bryan Kelly
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:02 PM

    Sorry for all the typos…on the phone.

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    Mute Simone Hackett
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:16 PM

    @bryan This makes a more sense to me. Thanks for explaining it in an intelligent, structured manner.

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    Mute Bryan Kelly
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:25 PM

    @Simone

    I got called ‘right’ earlier, and now I’m being thanked?

    What’s happened to the Journal’s comments section?

    Just kidding. The whole thing’s got more than a couple of legal thingies attached to it, and there’s a lot of emotion behind the whole thing since the water charges were basically the last straw at the end of years of austerity. There’s lots of reasons to be angry over it, and it took me quite a while to figure it in my own head what the overall “problem” was and put it in words.

    It’s a touchy subject (apparently even more so from the euro-sceptic crowd since the Brexit).

    Thanks for the kind words.

    18
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    Mute David Saunders
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:30 PM

    Because we already pay through two different taxes.did you not know that?

    29
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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:30 PM

    water is essential for life. It should be free. food is essential for life. It should be free. let’s nationalise tesco. why should limey capitalists make money on our need for food?

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    Mute David Saunders
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:31 PM

    It’s not free

    26
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    Mute Chris Gaffney
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    Jun 27th 2016, 10:27 PM

    Thats the most sensible comment I have seen in ages!

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    Mute Martin Critten
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    Jun 27th 2016, 11:00 PM

    @simone water tax or ring-fenced revenue was brought in by legislation in the nineties when Vat and Motor tax was hiked to cover investment infrastructure in water, to answer you question. So legislative provision is there. In fareness, all we are asking for really is constitutional protection that such infrastructure doesn’t become the cash cow of any corporate, we’ve seen to much of what corporates do in monopolising.

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    Mute ed w
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    Jun 27th 2016, 11:21 PM

    Britain already has metered water charges. And they aren’t cheap.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:15 AM

    Nail on head Ricky

    1
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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:19 AM

    Yes Niall, Britain is leaving because FF screwed up the application and tried to blame the EU. That must be it. Not the 20 of lies and propaganda by newspapers and media owned by people who aren’t even British.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:20 AM

    Why? Because they can’t assess a news article properly? Are you saying they’re a bit thick Welshhibby?

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:25 AM

    Daffy appears not to understand how these directives are created and applied. Remember, our government helped draft and stood behind this directive as being good for the community as a whole. They then applied for special treatment but failed to renew properly. The good news is that the people to blame are your own representatives and you can punish them. How FF are so popular I’ll never know.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:28 AM

    It’s a reasonable question. We just don’t like paying twice Simone. And it has NOTHING to do with the EU. This is Ireland’s own political class trying to get one over on the public.

    1
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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:29 AM

    Nothing to do with Brussels. This is FF, FG and Labour’s fault.

    1
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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:33 AM

    There’s nothing wrong with this directive Richard. It’s there as part of a proper conservation plan and our own govt. would have had input. I do agree that this quango is a corrupt attempt at privatisation of a public resource an IW should abolished however.

    1
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    Mute Lesley O Meara
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    Jun 28th 2016, 8:41 AM

    We already pay through taxes!!! When my water goes back to tasting as nice as it did before the metres went in, then I MIGHT consider a moderate payment to cover 100% clean drinkable tap water!!!!

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    Mute Lesley O Meara
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    Jun 28th 2016, 8:43 AM

    Simone, it has never been free.

    3
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    Mute Joe Daly
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:41 AM

    Water in Ireland is not free and never has been! It is paid for through general taxation!

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    Mute Joe Daly
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    Jun 28th 2016, 9:42 AM

    It isn’t free! We pay through our taxes!!!

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    Mute Daffy the Bear
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    Jun 28th 2016, 11:46 AM

    No problem with my understanding Danny. Just because our corrupt home-grown patasites were complicit with the EU diktat doesn’t relieve the EU of any responsibility. The fact remains, this is an EU directive without which the issue of direct water charges would never have arisen.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Jun 28th 2016, 12:34 PM

    What part of “We already pay for it through two forms of taxation” do you not understand, Simone? It most certainly is not free.

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    Mute Terry Ghee
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    Jun 28th 2016, 2:34 PM

    @ Simone. Under the Road Tax act of 1987 (I am going off memory here), there is a provision for the upkeep of the water system.

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    Mute Terry Ghee
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    Jun 28th 2016, 2:39 PM

    Nobody is against paying for a vital public service. That’s just crazy. It’s just that nobody wants to pay for something that’s already being paid for. I will certainly accept that there is a need for a radical overhaul of the water infrastructure to cope with increased demand and to replace archaic pipes etc. However, the underhand nature of the Tendering system along with bonuses for the top people of a private company being paid by public funds is indecent and criminal.
    That is what people cannot abide

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    Mute ryan3939
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    Jun 28th 2016, 2:43 PM

    But where is the EU going??

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    Mute Simone Hackett
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    Jun 28th 2016, 5:01 PM

    @terry thanks for this. Many ppl can’t explain what you just did and instead hurl abuse and aggression.
    Having read many comments on here and in previous water charges related articles, it seems some Irish realise how things work and make valid arguments while others have no clue and rehash what they have heard from someone else or even worse demand santized water is a given right and should be free!!

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    Mute mickmc
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:21 PM

    Well well imagine now that it’s FF who started the whole thing off. And there you have Barry Cowan going around as if butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth when it was his traitor of a brother that set the wheels in motion.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:00 PM

    did Bertie not negotiate an exemption? Kelly purposely missed a deadline to re-apply.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:52 PM

    What Barry Cowan forgets is that rural communitties have been and still are paying for their water through group water schemes. Suggesting that water could be payed through general taxation when a quarter of the country doesn’t pay tax is absurd.

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:20 PM

    ..And you forget Chris that all Group water schemes are subsidised by the Government and have been since 1997.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:22 PM

    No need for the “them and us” argument Chris – thats what they want. Consider all the costs – swings and roundabouts

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    Mute mickmc
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    Jun 28th 2016, 7:05 AM

    @lavbeer. Corrupt and all as Bertie Ahern was how would he have negotiated any exception. He was gone by 2008 and the plan was submitted to the EU in 2010.

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    Mute Gisbert Bayertz
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:38 PM

    Why doesn’t the EU just go and fcuk off?

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    Mute cleargoods
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    Jun 27th 2016, 10:19 PM

    please watch “brexit the movie”

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    Mute Yvonne Dillon
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    Jun 27th 2016, 10:57 PM

    I did watch that Brexit the movie and was just astonished by what I saw and heard.
    I now truly understand why the vote to exit. It is a must for viewing

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    Mute Rosie Murray
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    Jun 27th 2016, 11:37 PM

    European Commission should mind their own business..

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 12:51 AM

    They merely answered a question truthfully Rosie, if you don’t like the position we are in it’s FF you should be blaming.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 12:53 AM

    Why didn’t FF and then Alan Kelly do their job properly?

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    Mute Pat Lennon
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:16 PM

    Absolute rubbish. Doesn’t matter that FF introduced charges,they did so recently. So the “established practice” was clearly general taxation. The exemption Bertie got still applies , cos it was never rescinded. The government should challenge this absurd ruling or face the call for an Eirexit.

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:21 PM

    Correct….I just heard on RTE radio that it’s up to the Government to declare to the EU what is ‘established practice’ in relation to the payment for water….ball is now in the Government’s court…not the EU’s.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:53 PM

    established practice to me means a fully operational service used by most people – in 2010 there is no way they can claim that to be the case.

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    Mute Léargas
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:18 PM

    FF completely agreed to implement article 9 of the framework which sets out the provision of paying for water, as such Vella is saying you cannot agree to an article and then roll-back on it, he even goes so far as to saying Ireland could have been fined for not implementing charges sooner, this article is misleading, it has nothing to do really with ‘established practice’ and all to do with FF agreeing to implement article 9 in 2010, an agreement that is irreversible once committed to

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:24 PM

    If they signed up to something like that then they will no doubt produce the documented evidence surely and MM will look a complete fool. Not that both actions are mutually exclusive.

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    Mute Léargas
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:37 PM

    There is a timeline to introduce pay for water under article 9 in 2010 here…

    http://www.wfdireland.ie/wfd-timetable.html

    There are also more documents related to the unconditional signing up to article 9 there. It seems FF has committed to this and there is legally no rowing back as it stands

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:59 PM

    That’s an out of date website with a proposed draft plan (recommends IE7).
    Enda would be projecting any signed document into the Dublin sky if it existed. I doesn’t.

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    Mute Léargas
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:22 PM

    The previous Government did outline it, multiple times…

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2014-12-17a.613#g618.r

    Vella has just reiterated the point that when the WFD was put in place in 2000 Ireland were exempt from water charges but FF in the RBMP of 2010 agreed to implement charges

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:42 PM

    And the evidence ? Someone signed a document surely? If FG can produce a document signed by a FF minister – wow that would be some scoop. Opinions is all we get.

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    Mute Chris Kirk
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:56 PM

    Be careful what you wish for Pat. If Ireland were to leave the EU we would be worse off than Britain and with some hefty debts to be paid while companies would go out of busisiness.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:18 PM

    Ireland needs the EU imho

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 12:55 AM

    This is not a ruling, it is an answer to a parliamentary question. A question that could have been easily avoided entirely by our own representatives if they were looking after our interests properly.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 12:57 AM

    Correct Al. But people love to blame the EU for stuff, especially politicians trying to distance themselves from bad news.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 12:59 AM

    Nail on head Leargas. Very disappointing reporting.

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    Mute Emachine
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:15 PM

    It’s that type of arrogant attitude that makes me wonder if we should be following Britain out. I’m getting tired of being micromanaged by European bureaucrats.

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    Mute Science of beer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:41 PM

    Fact exit would be good for us too. Take back our fishing rights

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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:44 PM

    You’re right bring the country to its knees over 2 euro a week

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    Mute Science of beer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:51 PM

    Leaving would have fcuk all to do with water and for to do with the likes of TTIP and the hundreds of unelected bureaucrats that are trying to Americanise our little island.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:04 AM

    What arrogance? He answered a question honestly. FF screwed you over by not managing your interests properly AGAIN. Please remember this for the next election.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:05 AM

    Science of Beer you are delusional.

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    Mute Willy
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:43 PM

    They can go where they like. I won’t be paying them.
    Fu(k of IW and do the same Europe…

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    Mute Willy
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:00 PM

    FG /FF /LIEBOUR are doing a great job on getting a majority worked up on Irexit by blaming Europe on insisting on this bankers tax. Won’t be paid by the majority and now the majority would vote for Irexit. These planks need to go. Election please…

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    Mute Vincent Wallace
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:20 PM

    We probably are the wettest country in Europe. No other country had our rainfall and water supply. There is pretty much zero chance of drought here. Yet again European fat cat politicians who never set foot in Ireland dictating to us and they wonder why people want out!

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:10 AM

    Sorry Vincent, they’re not dictating, they are answering a legal question correctly. FF screwed you again and pointed the finger elsewhere – you should be used to it by now.

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    Mute Colette Kearns
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:23 PM

    We must all stick together on this one & not allow “OUR WATER” services to be put into private ownership for greedy billionaire profiteers!

    215
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    Mute Quiet Goer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:33 PM

    Before ya know it our water supply will be controlled completely by French multinational conglomorate Veolia

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:28 PM

    Enda can fix this having a referendum not to allow private ownership and by campaigning against it. Then we start to work to get value for money. We know that can’t happen though.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:11 AM

    Agree Lavbeer.

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    Mute Tom Sullivan
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    Jun 28th 2016, 12:32 PM

    Veolia, owned by Senior Bondholder “Bailed Out” Rothschild.

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    Mute Tim Brennan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:13 PM

    The inability to listen seems to be rampant in Brussels let this kind of stupid intervention continue and Ireexit will be fast tracked

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:07 AM

    The inability of Journal readers to properly assess a misleading article is rampant Tim.

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    Mute emily davison
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:20 PM

    The European commission hey? These guys can kiss my Hairy bean bag. They are the reason for Brexit, to them the people are the enemy.

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    Mute Charles Martel
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:10 PM

    I would rather live a week standing on my feet, than a lifetime on my knees.
    IREXIT – Bring back the Punt.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:51 AM

    Yawns

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    Mute Cram Wood
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:19 PM

    Time for Ireland to get the flip out of the EU!

    197
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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:15 AM

    Yawn

    1
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    Mute Marty Lawless
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:10 PM

    The eu can kiss my as&hole still not paying

    190
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    Mute The Viking
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:08 PM

    Eirexit. Wish them Germans . Sorry . EU politicians would feck off..

    188
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    Mute meL-In033
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:19 PM

    A few more years and Merkel’s EU will become the Fourth Reich.

    We’ve had the extreme right, now it’s time for the extreme left.

    Get out while you can.

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    Mute meL-In033
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:31 PM

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

    “EUROPEAN political chiefs are to take advantage of Brexit by unveiling their long-held plan to morph the continent’s countries into one GIANT SUPERSTATE, it has emerged today..

    ..The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”. Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels.

    ..Controversially member states would also lose what few controls they have left over their own borders, including the procedure for admitting and relocating refugees. The plot has sparked fury and panic in Poland – a traditional ally of Britain in the fight against federalism – after being leaked to Polish news channel TVP Info.”

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    Mute Peter Fechter
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:33 PM

    Arrogant Fu##ks!

    89
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    Mute Ollie O'Brien
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:59 PM

    Not f@#king chance that we allow that sh@te to happening

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:09 PM

    Ollie do you mean not a f@#king chance Enda will allow that happen? Because that unfortunately is the person who is meant to protect Ireland and her citizens…….

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    Mute Ollie O'Brien
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:37 PM

    Our eu overlords now know that their super right wing state project can still be toppled by ordinary democratic underlings ….don’t need that excuse of person to protect , sin fein a deanamh e , we ourselves will do it

    18
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    Mute Bob McShane
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    Jun 27th 2016, 10:14 PM

    On the other hand I finally roughly worked out Christopher redemptor! :-)

    3
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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:53 AM

    The Express? Really? Telegraph to intellectual for you?

    1
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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:53 AM

    Deluded Ollie….

    1
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    Mute Declan Burtenshaw
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:10 PM

    Well I’m not paying & that’s that.

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    Mute windbag
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:14 PM

    Referendum anyone…?

    172
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    Mute Derek Lyster
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:30 PM

    They can still go fook themselves if they think that i’m paying

    162
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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:47 PM

    The irony is the people who paid will have to pay again when the fines are put on their taxes

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    Mute William Clay
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:26 PM

    watch Kenny and the media spin it on how they now can’t get rid of Irish water

    161
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    Mute Sean Callan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 11:06 PM

    Kenny &co have spent €670k in legal fees to protect the generous tax concessions of Apple ……..
    .would he spend the same to challange the water charges ?? Or is it a matter of priorities????

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    Mute Louise Dylan Roche
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:20 PM

    IREXIT anyone???

    155
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    Mute Welshhibby
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:28 PM

    Do it Louise do it baby

    76
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    Mute bmul
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:12 PM

    That can’t set the charge so 1cent a year

    149
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    Mute Ed Ucator
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:05 PM

    Why not re-establish the practice? Then isn’t it the new ‘established practice’? And the word ‘established’ to me sounds as though someone would have to be doing it for a long period of time? An established teacher, an established doctor etc.

    92
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    Mute BlueSkyThinking
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:07 PM

    Just threaten the EU with an Irexit referendum. That should keep Brussels quiet for a while…

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    Mute alphanautica
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:49 PM

    We’ll need to quadruple the water charge when all the MNCs leave in order to be HQ’d in Europe and we’ve a massive crash in GDP and tax income.
    But it would be worth it just to prove a point.

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    Mute Symbolism
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:03 PM

    And follow through if necessary.

    33
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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:46 PM

    1 cent a year. no way we won’t pay. If they force 1 cent a year on us we’ll kidnap another ministet

    4
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    Mute Sean Callan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 11:11 PM

    Would this be a full IRISH BREXI

    14
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    Mute Adrian
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:53 PM

    Well the Irish people who refuse to pay this ain’t going nowhere either, and this is the reason why Britain left the EU. (Brussels dictating Ireland what to do).

    127
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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:26 PM

    Those who were harping on at the “stupid dumb brits” are now complaining about “muh sovereignty”. This is why they left, the EU doesn’t recognise sovereignty.

    On the bright side the EU released plans to make Berlin and Paris the quasi capitals of the EU, pulling out Belgium, today. They also threatened Poland and other central European nations to comply with refugee quotas “or else” and said they will be preventing the union from collapsing at “all costs” tell me again about our dumb neighbours? Seems they got out in the nick of time.

    116
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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:29 PM

    Sorry, pulling out of Belgium isnt confirmed. But one can assume that creating two quasi capitals means that Belgium can kiss its EU parliament goodbye. I guess they dont like the fact they are almost bombed every other day because of the mess they carved out of belguim

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    Mute Dessie Deratta
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:27 PM

    “Water charges are going nowhere”?

    Lol!

    It’s the EU is going nowhere…..

    100
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    Mute AGuyWithARant
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:33 PM

    @dessie

    The the eu is going somwhere, just not somewhere good.

    They seem to want a federal union, jean-claude juncker, the main (of 5) eu president(s) openly despises democracy and wants a eu superstate and army. Scroll through his twitter. Its scary.

    If they try federalisation I guarantee civil war, main land Europe, particularly France and Belgium are quite unstable since November and Sweden and Germany are heading that way.

    73
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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:06 PM

    Here’s Juncker the beloved EU President, The Great Dictator, greeting his inferiors….. https://www.rt.com/news/345474-junker-riga-drunk-speculation/

    41
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    Mute Ben McArthur
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:08 PM

    Cognitive dissonance: begin.

    99
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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:13 PM

    The EU have their fingers in their ears shouting………”LA! LA! LA! LA! LA!……I CAN’T HEAR YOU!”

    147
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    Mute For Connolly
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:31 PM

    PMSL! The commission can only issue an OPINION, only the ECJ can make a legally binding decision on the matter.

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    Mute Rob Mills
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:25 PM

    Hopefully the ship sinks and they won’t be in any state to fleece us any more.

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    Mute Ken Pepper
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:11 PM

    Neither are the bills in landfills throughout the country…

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    Mute Chris Cantwell
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:56 PM

    As if ta fook, I’m a student who lives of bread crumbs, they can take a hike….

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    Mute Georgina Deegan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:30 PM

    EU directives are binding. Article 9 of the water framework directive requires charging for domestic water. There is one exemption. It is known within the European Commission as the “Irish Exemption” because it was won by the Irish and only Ireland qualifies for it. It is found in article 9.4 of the directive.
    In 2000, the Irish government brokered this exemption and the inclusion of article 9.4 which formally and legally absolves Ireland and only Ireland from the requirement to charge for domestic water.

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    Mute Simone Hackett
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:04 PM

    Did not know this! Interesting

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:51 AM

    And then FF screwed the Irish people, but probably due to incompetence more than anything else.

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    Mute Paudi Onail
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:01 PM

    So… any wonder why UK voted to leave. How is IW got anything to do with Immigration then? Nothing and there’s far more reasons to leave as well.

    Best thing we could do is campaign for a referendum to leave the EU and trade with Britain. F**k the rest of them. We don’t want their stinky fat sausages and cheese. We have plenty of good agri here, if not the best.

    66
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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:11 PM

    Here’s a list of reasons, and if you look at those graphs, it’s not just the Brits who are unhappy….the French will never be given a vote on the EU, they hate it! https://www.rt.com/viral/348610-eurosceptic-eu-key-reasons/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

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    Mute Aoife
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:47 PM

    If they can make a rule well then what’s to stop them unmaking it. We are being bullied by the EU and that’s exactly why the English wanted out. It’s an undemocratic institution robbing us of our sovereignty. All vestiges of solidarity are gone within the eu when it comes to helping out member states. They’ve made a fortune from us plus interest and for what. High unemployment and debt levels that are eye-watering.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:49 AM

    Sorry Aoife, this directive would have been drafted along with the Irish govt for conservation reasons. We then negotiated an exemption. FF did not renew the exemption. The EU is bullying no one here, merely answering a question. Nothing else in your statement is factual, but it does sound like you watch Sky news and read The Mirror.

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:57 PM

    Maybe we should follow the UK’s lead? Bit sick at this stage to be told you pay and pay again by faceless bureaucrats sitting Europe with no connection to the land I live in……

    52
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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:14 AM

    Because it’s quite possibly the stupidest thing in history. They’re economy is headed down the toilet and the UK as you know it may not exist any more. Putin has had to be given a sedative because he hasn’t been able stop laughing since Friday morning.

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    Mute Mary McDonagh Faherty
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:13 PM

    The EU gods have spoken and people wonder why UK voted to leave. We don’t control our country and haven’t for a very long time.

    46
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    Mute Linda
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:17 PM

    Why is everything such a fuss! Set it up properly, no one gets to own it or make money from it, get someone with a bit of cop on to be in charge of where the money goes, reduce something somewhere else where were told we were paying already. Fixed! I really wonder about the people who are in charge of stuff.

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    Mute Odhran MacMurchadha
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    Jun 27th 2016, 6:56 PM

    Where’s our Boris Johnson?

    38
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    Mute Johan Sand
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:16 PM

    On 28 July 2010, through Resolution 64/292, the United Nations General Assembly explicitly recognized the human right to water and sanitation and acknowledged that clean drinking water and sanitation are essential to the realisation of all human rights.

    That said, it’s not so much paying for water that is the problem. It’s the fact that EU’s agenda is to privatise all water throughout the EEA. That can never be allowed to happen.

    Our government has so far refused to add such guarantees and protection through legislation. That is unacceptable.

    34
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    Mute Tony Hartigan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:57 PM

    My solution to this is. 1. Abolish the funding for water from motor tax and the 2% from Vat. 2. Enshrine our water system and the water in the Constitution to prevent it been sold. 3. Put an annual charge of €100 in place.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:50 AM

    I’d sign up Tony.

    1
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    Mute leartius
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:41 PM

    2010, FF sold us out to save French and German banks who went bankrupt lending to Anglo without any regulation only a childish idea that bankers would but on the green jersey to protect the ecomony. A debt that makes family’s homeless weekly, more taxes are needed but never spent on services and a health service that Is being prepared for privatising. It does as little as possible using layer after layer of managers to protect the minister. We could afford to pay five times for water if we still were not still paying for PMPA or the first bank bailout or Quinn insurance or army’s of lawyers defending Apple. We can’t just keep paying for protected peoples mistakes at some stage something gotta give and Europe must as some stage realise that. With 0.004% of Europes population but 44% of the debt bailing out a banking sector that has never recovered. We are in a worst state now than in 2008 with politics morphed into a single pool working against taxpayers. it’s Germany that should be leaving the European Union not the United Kingdom.

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    Mute Susan lloyd
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:23 PM

    Before we even get to water can we please have proof of exactly where our bondholder property tax has been spent?anyone?

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    Mute Peter Moran
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:04 PM

    Let’s leave the EU in an orderly fashion lads fook them and their poxy water charges

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    Mute Micheal OLainn
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:01 PM

    Here is a solution.

    Have a Referendum.

    Then test the resolve of the EU to override the democratic will of the electorate.

    In effect, the obstinacy and the hardline approach of the EU gave the UK the push to get out of the EU. Let’s see if the EU can learn from past errors.

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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:34 PM

    like Greece did. It worked well there.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:57 AM

    You’re deluded Michael.

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    Mute Colette Kearns
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:00 PM

    Patrick Gough, where the hell are you getting this “2 euro a week ” from? That would make it 104 euro p.a. If people had just accept this charge, we would be paying hundreds of euro’s p.a. not €104 The only reason your not is thanks to the protesters & people that are prepared to look after our water & not allow it into private hands!

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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:36 PM

    It’s because the chicken shit government wouldn’t stand up to pressure from the protrstets

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    Mute Maureen Stanford
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:40 PM

    No wonder England dumped Europe . We should do the same . The gall of them dicktating to other countries

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 1:59 AM

    If you don’t know what you’re talking about and can’t be bothered to read the article do really expect anybody to be interested in what you have to say Maureen?

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    Mute Trevor Beale
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:03 PM
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    Mute Roy O' Brien
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:57 PM

    More bullying from the EU.still won’t pay Enda.

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    Mute Danny Rafferty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 2:00 AM

    More rubbish from someone who hasn’t read the article.

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    Mute Trevor Beale
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:07 PM
    12
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    Mute TTIP McGowan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 10:59 PM

    I’ll be marching again so.

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    Mute David Saunders
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:42 PM

    Do they think they will have better luck getting us to pay? Can’t imagine what they will do to get that to happen

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    Mute Colette Kearns
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    Jun 27th 2016, 10:49 PM

    Martin Quinn, Everyone in this country pays tax in some form or other, from the cradle to the grave. An educated person would know this!

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    Mute kilmoremick
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    Jun 27th 2016, 11:26 PM

    Well,well.
    England we will just be behind you,
    Don’t close the door.

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    Mute Conor Ryan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 10:57 PM

    Why are people so worked up over water charges? We are getting a hell of a lot more fleeced over USC. To the tune of €20+ a week.
    Where are the protests there?

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    Mute Paul Lanigan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:17 PM

    Now it’s definitive, can we move on please

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    Mute Al Ca
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:22 PM

    errr?….it’s not.

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    Mute Kerry Blake
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    Jun 27th 2016, 7:59 PM

    Err Paul its the opinion of Ms Vella and nothing else.

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    Mute lavbeer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:32 PM

    Ms Vella I note didn’t produce any evidence. Talking through her Anglo I suspect.

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    Mute Patrick Gough
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:42 PM

    If we don’t pay we’ll be kicked out of the EU. This will lead to the breakup of the EU and eventually to war. I can see a historian of the future giving a lecture on the causes of world wars ww1 assassination of the arch Duke ferdinard ww2 nazi expansionism ww3 ireland refusing to pay 2 euros a week

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    Mute alan nolan
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    Jun 27th 2016, 8:53 PM

    That’s some serious scare mongering right there Patrick ww3 ffs

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    Mute eastsmer
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    Jun 27th 2016, 9:02 PM

    Enough with the €2 a week,
    You and I know that is not true,
    Even if it were true after the guaranteed privatisation it will never be true, so stop the BS

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    Mute Ronan Sexton
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    Jun 28th 2016, 12:30 PM

    Why would one even want to throw two quid a week away into a corrupt slush fund?

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    Mute Phil Hegarty
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    Jun 28th 2016, 8:44 AM

    That’s ok but Irish water will never get a cent!!

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    Mute james r
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    Jun 28th 2016, 10:47 AM

    We already pay .. End of ..

    1
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