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THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION has expressed concerns about the Government’s revised water charges package.
In a draft report as part of its review of Ireland’s post-bailout economic progress, the Commission said the extent to which Irish Water can borrow on the markets has yet to be determined.
The document warns that the utility may not be able to become self-funding as charges will be capped until the end of 2018.
If Irish Water fails its market test set by Eurostat in April, it could mean the budget deficit would be increased by about 0.3% of GDP. Independent TD Mattie McGrath said this would be a “nightmare situation”.
Fianna Fáil’s Environment Spokesperson described the draft report as “another blow to credibility of Irish Water”.
Irish Water was the wrong model, implemented disastrously. Hundreds of millions, which should have been invested in infrastructure, has been poured into this fiasco.
Sinn Féin’s Finance Spokesperson Pearse Doherty said the water conservation grant of €100 for each household is in danger as the Commission view the payment as “an Exchequer transfer to Irish Water” and so might force the Government to put the €160 million set aside for this onto its books.
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“It was unbelievably arrogant or naïve of the Government to expect the EU Commission to see the so-called water conservation grant as anything other than an exchequer transfer.”
The whole revised package is now in serious doubt. If the Government’s plans fail the market corporation in test in April, I believe that the Government will then move to get rid of the water conservation grant altogether while pressing ahead with full water charges.
Speaking on Morning Ireland, Doherty again called on the Government to scrap the charges entirely.
He said there is “absolutely no certainty” over the charge remaining at €60 for single-adult houses and €160 for all other households, as announced by Environment Minister Alan Kelly in November.
No question
A spokesperson for the Department of the Environment said there is “no question of abolishing” the grant.
The grant is universal – payable to Irish Water customers and households with private wells, septic tanks and on group water schemes. It is not part of Irish Water’s revenue and is not part of the funding model for the utility.
The spokesperson compared the grant to the fuel allowance, which is also paid by the Department of Social Protection and does not form part of the revenue of energy companies.
He added that decisions on off-balance sheet treatment are “a matter ultimately for Eurostat, which is independent in its function in this regard”.
“The Government is confident that the underlying funding model for Irish Water supports increased investment in the sector with off-balance sheet treatment while balancing with charges which are affordable, clear and certain.”
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Bigtime. Prepare for the scare stories on RTE/INM, the thinly veiled threats from government, and IWs spokeswoman all over the TV/radio explaining how the contract you’re refusing to sign isn’t a contract and how IW is the only company in Europe where basic contract law doesn’t apply anyway.
Ireland’s brothers and sisters TOGETHER we can do this. No signing of contracts, no payments! Let them fit their meters away they’ll never be read anyways!
I agree, the basic principle of offer and acceptance doesn’t exist in iw, this goes against contract law which has been the rule for God knows how long.how on earth can you be held accountable to a service provider if you don’t want them in the first place. Its just crazy stuff altogehter. You could say that your not happy with iw for whatever reason, I.e. environmental, prices, personal, ethical, whatever, but you have no choice in the matter you have to be a customer anyway. It doesn’t make sense. It’s a farce and is obviously a smokescreen which will end in privatisation, which they deny.
They can deny it all they want. Fro the wording of the water services bill, to the setting up of IW as a private company controlled by shares, its the worst kept secret in Ireland that it is being ripened up for privatisation. And if less than half of customers pay, how much of the pittance they take in will they spend on fixing pipes if they have to keep their balance sheet healthy for prospective buyers?
C Mc Gyver
Tis the cracks and leaks inefficiencies that have us in this fiasco in the first place. We already pay for water, our govt. are too inefficient to get it sorted properly. We also already paid for our roads and property, less corruption more people in govt, who actually are proud to serve the Irish people.
A guy I know sent back his application pack …
He corrected the details to a person that doesn’t exist ….now he is off the datatbase and so is his replacement ..
Oh the Irish and the games they play !
It must be in the water in the Dail Petyr – which I hear – the bottled type , is sourced North of the Border ….
If that is true and we have the Irish Army buying N.I. beef then when these shower talk about job creation I smile cynically to myself and think – Long road without a turn on an island such as ours !
I think it is more than that. When we voted for Maastrict, Nice and Lisbon we were given assurances that we wouldn’t be moving towards a United States of Europe, a Banking Union, a unified Armed Forces, Unified Tax System etc etc etc. The reality is that no matter who we have or whether we are in a bailout or not Europe is governing all our policies, legislation/ changes to laws and telling us what to set up and when.
FG/LAB can talk about a return to a place where we can manage our own affairs again but that is nonsense. Irish Water is a long line of things like Money/Oil/Gas/Agriculture/Fishing that has been taken out of our hands and we get a raw deal back in return. Again again again smaller countries like Ireland get hammered by the bigger countries that are sucking up our resources and I think we need to cut through the bs that has been fed to us for the last few years and recognize that Ireland isn’t Ireland anymore and the people that we elect have no power to do anything other than implement European policies. The most this government or any future government can really is smile and blame us for the problem in the hope we don’t cop on that democracy has failed in this part of the world.
The one thing if anything that I am unconvinced on is the e100 conservation grant. There is a lot of hustle and bustle about this e100 being given at some point this year to reduce the cost of the e160 or e260 per year. However when you look up the DSP website it doesn’t say that this will reduce your bill. What it says is they are giving this to people to fix the taps and pipes in your home and install water abutments and pressure reducers etc.
Nobody seems to be asking the questions which I think should be asked:
1. Will people have to provide receipts to prove that they spent money upgrading their facilities at home before they get the e100?
2. Will e100 cover all the repairs and upgrades needed to reduce consumption and in the case where someone in need needs a larger amount to upgrade their facilities will the DSP/ IW help them?
3. Will the DSP pay this money to people if they do not carry out such works meaning that they have to in fact pay the e160 and e260 in full as quoted by the government?
Either way there is huge questions over the wording and the follow through of this promise that many people should ask before they sign up for this utility bill. Not saying don’t sign up. Just don’t be sorry when later on this year the government and IW tell people that they should have read the T&Cs before signning..
I know great people running the country the people have raised concerns about irish water quango now taxies dont want a fare increase yet the goverments say yes. can Enda an gang get anything right. god it gets worse by the day.
why even bother asking and thereby almost legitimizing this farce with the oxygen of ..attention. lol. You have to SPEND before you are given the allowance or discount or whatever form might come in but theyre not handing it out as cash. Ultimately theyre really giving this money to IrishWater, notthe taxpayer. Either way, so what. DONT SIGN – DONT PAY, starve this corrupt beast until it collapses.
It’s very simple, if people don’t pay and ignore the bills and letters that come in their doors from Irish Gravy. Then the whole thing fails and they have no choice but to scrap it. We can beat this unjust double tax. All out and march, Jan the 31st.
According Dutch Inst. NIbuD avg water use pp is 45m3 per year. So for a family of 4: 4x45x3.7 = €666 per year. Last December Govt. Revised the unit price per m3 (1000L) from €4.88 to €3.70. Notably Holland charges only €1.60/m3 ie. 231% cheaper!
The lads in the Dáil Bar will be busy trying to figure how they’re gonna shaft us another way to appease their Euro masters now. What IW’s plan for when more than half of their “customers” don’t pay them? What does a company do in that situation?
In fairness, it’s not like they can say they provided any service or product
May be they’ll give it to Revenue to collect..oh thats right it’s illegal for Revenue to collect funds for a private or semi state company.
I think the box of threats might be empty this time.
Out of curiosity I just googled “when more than half a company’s customers don’t pay” (without the quotation marks). It doesn’t seem to have ever happened before. Seems they’re about to make history before they become it :)
Did they Spider ?
Ah well if they did that then I’m afraid they’ll al be heading to Dublin Castle for a dressing down !
They asked and they shall receive kinda thing !
Under the Water Services (No. 2) Bill 2013, where a customer fails to pay their charges, Irish Water will have to go to court to enforce payment. The courts have the power to take from source.
But that is a court order, not the same as IW taking it from your wages, to take someone to court takes a while as usually a load of letters are sent out first. Any utility company can take you to court and then the court decides what happens not the Utility company.
Can’t the court order the deduction to made from your wages if you refuse to pay? Although if they could one would wonder why they send so many to prison over the TV license…
Can we start referring to this €100 ‘grant’ for what it is please?
Its a BRIBE, pilfered from the social welfare budget, given to anyone who signs up to a private company INCLUDING people who will not be customers of that company, simply so the numbers can be spun as ‘compliance’.
There will be a tribunal about this in a few years, mark my words. I’m just the EU aren’t falling for their accountancy trick.
The E.U. and indeed the Irish Government should be more concerned with the discriminatory tariff ..
If two Gay or lesbian people decide to get married and have no children – they will have to pay 80 euro per head for water when they move into happy married bliss together -
Children’s referendum my eye !
Does single adult mean single adult with no children or single adult with five children ?
Now let’s see …
Is the conservation grant paid out at a flat rate regardless of whether you have paid a single fee or a couple fee ?
Surely those who pay 60 euro – should only receive 3/8ths – (ratio 60;160) of the 100 euro ..
Hey shinners whatever about Gerry – I am good at maths !
Hire an actuary you clowns – that is what your enemy is using against you !
That’s 37.50 for the single conservation grant -anything else is illegal discrimination and is open to a Constitutional challenge !
While I have ye shinners – go straight to the High Court and get an Order to block the sale of A.I..B –
The first one there is the next Taoiseach of Eire –
My money is on Fitz and Ross to beat ye to the punch !
500 mil in quantitive easing fund should just about cover the irish water fiasco, meters coming out has now actually passed out the meters in by some calculations !
It looks like the real Bosses in Europe are emerging again ?
What a plethora of lies that we have been told about this whole affair by Enda , Hogan and now Kelly , about Irish Water .
This Government tell even more porkies then last one did and that’s some record to maintain surely !
Time to scrap this Government and the Joke that is Irish Water surely ?
On my side of the river Chris we have a wide and varied history of what to do with Bailiffs that are nothing more than foreign oppression …..
Take a stroll into the National Museum – we’ve been dealing with them since the Iron Age ….
If you are really really sharp – you will actually see one of Enda’s ancestors – believe it or not !
Clue – He’s only half a man but that which is plain truth is there for everyone to see .
@ Chris. If a contract cannot exist without the consent of both parties, and you have informed Irish Water that you do not consent to their contract, how can Irish Water take you to court for breach of contract? (their claimed method of pursuing ‘non payment’)
Dermot, “just ignore them and they’ll go away” they’re not Jehovas witnesses.
But by all means, don’t pay the bills, go to the collection agency, get junk credit rating and it might be easier for me to get a loan. Thanks in advance.
JJ – It has already been stated that it WILL NOT AFFECT a persons credit rating, do your research a bit better mate, before you make a complete dope of yerself.
You’re right JJ – they’re worse !
By ignore I also meant at the ballot box – then they go away !
And don’t be worried about your credit rating – Look at all those developers who went broke – no probs accessing finance since – that credit bureau is probably illegal in terms of private data !
Household charge passed through relatively quietly. 600 patients on trolleys? Nearly forgotten already. Homeless crisis? No notice anymore. But water charges? Storm the cities.
Were jammin
A contract in implied by use of service/product, if your using the water you are in a contract, but don’t worry about it this farce is finished
JJ O it’s are failed government that’s causing the trollie and homeless problem. Take that up with Enda Kenny. Don’t come in here useing you F. G. Scare tactics. Nobody is buying it.
JJ – It’s your priorities that are assways !
You are content to defend this awful Government – until it sinks very soon now – and Labour without trace .
Presumably , some of the Fascist Blueshirts / FG , may survive ???
Do O2, vodafone, eircom, esb etc take a portion of our taxes? I’m pretty sure they don’t, as apart from VAT they are already paid directly if you are signed up to a contract with them. So with regards water, we already pay for water through our endless list of taxes, so why would anyone be foolish enough to pay again to some random company? The mind boggles. It really highlights what the government think of us, complete simpletons, brain dead sheep. There is no obligation for anyone to sign up to IW. If my taxes paid my phone bill, why would I also pay O2 or vodafone?
JJ if you or anyone has an issue with the way this government runs our country, come out and voice it on the 31st jan. the protest is not solely about water, it’s about the mismanagement and disgraceful treat of the people of Ireland. And we have had enough, we can’t pay anymore.
And I pay commercial rates on a premises with no running water or toilet (harvested water and a portaloo) plus I pay my taxes that pays for others so your point is what exactly ?
That €100 ‘grant’ is money I paid in tax being given back to me so that I acknowledge the rights of Irish Water over my private well that I paid for with my own money. So I won’t be applying for the ‘grant’ thank you very much.
Irish Water is just another rich mans Gravy Train, similar to Anglo Irish Banksters. Ignore the threats. Enda and DOBBY are living it up in Davis, asking their masters what they should do next to ensure compliance. Local community’s must take charge of their own water supply. Boycott the irrelevant Quango of Irish Water.
Don’t sign any contract with E.U. Eire – I signed a Reps contract and it was reduced mid-term with no consultation with the other Party – i.e. – me !
This is total and flagrant breach of the very basic principles of Contract Law .
These people cannot be trusted to uphold the Law.
According to the government it is never going to be self funding that they will be putting monies in to run it along with any they get off us. According to this it will never be self funding by 2018 because of the price freeze. I can’t remember the exact figures off had but was in not something like 800 euro per house is the cost to rin water but the government pay a subsidy so it’s not 800. Looks like that’s what our puppets masters want us to pay by 2018!!!
The sums they will need to charge for every cubic meter of water in 2018 (to recover from the partial capitulation and carrots dangled before the donkeys during the previous four years) will be so high that even the 50% who have registered will join the boycott. http://i61.tinypic.com/2s9zor6.jpg
With the impending election underway One wonders how many of the Irish Troika Parties – FF, FG and LAB will be prepared to take the “Irish Water Bucket Challenge ” …
All you have to do is ring on a doorbell and declare the Party you are representing – There will be a bucket full of water (ice optional to the houseowner) with your name on it – all you have to do is stand there and take it – you know like you what you think Paddy exists for – standing there and taking it that is !
Unfortunately, too many ignorant people rushed out in their millions to get that all “important” vote in to join the EU?.
It’s nothing more than a fascist dictatorship, can’t people see that?
The real question has becone what’s the exit strategy. When this shambles fails, and it will fail, what will happen to its staff? Obviously the ex council works will return to their previous jobs but what about other employees Not working long enough to be entitled to a redundancy payment?
How much of our money has been wasted and can any be recouped, and lastly how much can we get for 3rd hand water metres?
I have no doubt that the staff will have a contract which guarantees them a job even if their job ceases to exist..
The taxpayer will pay dearly for this fiasco one way or another..
How much work on the water system would already have been completed if hundreds of millions of Euros hadn’t been wasted trying to set up this cash grab shambles. Just bloody shut it down and use the money we already pay towards water for it’s correct purpose.
Not even self funding? So we will end up not only paying for water services through tax firstly, then pay again with our bills, then the tax payer will pay AGAIN to fund what’s left? Never ending incompetency, and the scary thing is that they haven’t even sent out a bill yet.
Didn’t iw say it would cost around 2.4 billion over 6 years! But the revenue it would take from our taxes is in the region of 7.2billion ( over 6 years) so what are they planning to do with the balance? They are a joke & should be done away with NOW!
“Irish Water was the wrong model, implemented disastrously. Hundreds of millions, which should have been invested in infrastructure, has been poured into this fiasco.”
Lol
The first true and honest statement ever to issue from the Fianna Fail Party.?
Can we now expect them to abolish it, if they go into government with Fine Gael.?
This is when things are going to start getting dangerous. The government all along the 100 euro bribe was a non-runner, just a carrot on a stick. Like the Trokia was held to blame for all the cuts by the government, now the EU will be held to blame for removing the carrot of 100 euro. As IW will be unsustainable in its present form, there will be no choice left but to sell it off to private investors. The agenda is being played out.
Who would invest in a company with half the customers not paying except a financier who is on a big bonus to move a large section of Hedge fund – regardless of future performance .
The Fuhrer himself has expressed concerns about the Government’s revised water charges package:
There may be lots of Cryptosporidium in irish water but this video is going viral: http://youtu.be/c2P5_7y1ubc
Quality – have 100 internet green thumbs Mr. Mac Diarmada…..
There’s a dinger like that to be done with Maggie Thatcher doing Enda’s “you are not to blame ” speech !
Dear Friends, despite all the crap which is being promoted by this Government, I urge you to stay strong. A determined campaign of civil disobedience – non-payment – will defeat the plan to push proper State expenditure onto the taxpayer in addition to the burdens already imposed. Thus, the bondholders who are being paid off with our 1.2 billion tax already paid for water services on an annual basis will either receive their money – or not;. Similarly Veolia, Centrica, Nestle and our own beloved Denis will have to wait a considerable time before they get their greedy hands on our national water resources. Keep the faith, lads. OPPOSE, OBSTRUCT, DEFY. We can win this you know, if we maintain solidarity.
Time for this shambles to end now . How many pipes could have been repaired by now. Contractors ripping up roads leaving towns a disgrace. BiRR in offaly being one .
In any other profession if you have been found to have wasted thousands of euros and misappropriated funds, chances are, you lose your job and credibility….waste millions of euros in taxpayers money in Ireland and you get to remain in a job, still have your seat on the gravy train and still somehow have the ability to garner support from a corner of society…..its farcical. Michael D, what ever it is you do, do this….call a GE!!
I am sure that the powers that be are looking at the rival bid for this utility service company – the advertising of same and how closely Competition was adhered to in the lead in to the awarding of the contract !
Who was the rival bidder again ?
That’s it keep dangling the carrot some of us may bite, you would have to be fool not to realise once the cap has ended and Irish water can set their own prices, we will be at the mercy of yet another quango and another of a long list of taxes that we have to pay Enough is enough.
There is a tide in the affairs of men, Which taken at the flood, leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries. On such a full sea are we now afloat. And we must take the current when it serves, or lose our ventures.
if our german master tells enda to drop the €100 it will be dropped like a brick…Personally i am waiting for the media and opposition to get onto the no chance of any debt relief as kenny and gilmore lied to us 2 years ago when they ran about crowing about seismic shitt etc etc etc and our eu and imf masters have shot that kite down in pieces.Yet not a peep from opposition or media.
Ive a feeling that they will somehow link none payment of property charges to penalty points, yes if your car is manky or your hubcaps are not glistening, or the dashboard is not up to scratch, it 3 points for every offence and an on the spot € 60 fine.
If you think this is not possible, you can get 3 points and an on the spot fine for not having a valid nct disc, Even if you have it booked.
What is new… http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0122/674778-labour-charter/
“Breaches include the fact that the committee found the reduced national minimum wage applicable to adult workers on their first employment or following a course of studies was not sufficient to ensure a decent standard of living.”
What gets me about this is that the E.U. said to Ireland that they did not have to charge for water but the IMF wanted Ireland to charge for water and now that this government has. The “EUROPEAN COMMISSION has expressed concerns about the Government’s revised water charges package.” But why have they if it was ok not to charge for water here, confusing???
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Link different devices 53 partners can use this feature
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In support of the purposes explained in this notice, your device might be considered as likely linked to other devices that belong to you or your household (for instance because you are logged in to the same service on both your phone and your computer, or because you may use the same Internet connection on both devices).
Identify devices based on information transmitted automatically 88 partners can use this feature
Always Active
Your device might be distinguished from other devices based on information it automatically sends when accessing the Internet (for instance, the IP address of your Internet connection or the type of browser you are using) in support of the purposes exposed in this notice.
Save and communicate privacy choices 69 partners can use this special purpose
Always Active
The choices you make regarding the purposes and entities listed in this notice are saved and made available to those entities in the form of digital signals (such as a string of characters). This is necessary in order to enable both this service and those entities to respect such choices.
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