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THE WATER COMMITTEE is expected to approve the nation’s new water strategy tomorrow, eliminating water charges and refunding those who have already paid.
The report will be up for approval tomorrow and, barring any last-minute problems, will address a number of unanswered questions regarding the water charge controversy which has rumbled on for three years.
The committee recommends that “domestic water charging as provided for under the Water Services Act 2014 be discontinued”.
However, households will still pay for water but this will be done through general taxation
It also proposes that those who have paid their water charges up until they were stopped last year should receive some of the money back, if possible.
The report stated: “In respect of those who have paid some or all of the domestic water charges, the committee recommends that, following consideration of and taking into account the fiscal implications and the most effective refund methods, such households should be compensated in an equitable manner.”
However, there are a number of issues which may lead to discontent among those who have been most vehemently opposed to the charges.
Proposals
The committee wants all new homes to be fitted with water meters. This is so that the amount of household water consumption is clear and can be used as a means of effective leak detection and conservation. They also want to figure out a way of incentivising households to voluntarily sign up for water meters for what they describe as “conservation purposes”.
It emerged last week that those who wilfully waste water will face prosecution under proposed new plans.
The draft working report proposed that “those who wilfully abuse water or permit wastage can be prosecuted”.
However, in the latest draft report, expected to be accepted by the Oireachtas tomorrow, the word ‘prosecute’ does not feature.
Instead, it states:
The committee agrees that wilful wastage of water should be curbed. Wasteful water use should be monitored utilising district water meters, existing infrastructure and modern technology in order to explicitly and progressively target wilful wastage of water. This system should be kept under review to address pollution by ensuring leakages and any other water abuse are effectively identified.
Excessive use of water will also be set a 1.7 times the average household consumption level. Under the proposed plans, those who waste water will have penalties or levies imposed on them. This, according to the report, will demonstrate that Ireland is fulfilling its responsibilities under current EU water directives.
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99 out of 158 TDs were elected with a pledge to abolish water charges and irish water in their manifestos. This fudge doesn’t cut it. FF are breaking their election pledge and the dogs in the street know that they have the means to force through full abolition if it suited them.
@The Risen: your 100% right but would you have expected anything else. It is FF after all, Any other country and there would be riots but us stupid people just lay down and take it.
@Gavin Redmond: Or we march. Speaking of which, theres a national demonstration next Saturday 2:00pm
@The Risen: Ah here. People were elected for reasons other than their stance on water also, in many cases probably in spite of also.
@The Risen: I’ll see ya Saturday at 2pm!
@Brendan McGill: LOL! I just posted something almost identical above.
@The Risen: I voted for an anti water charges candidate but the water issue was not a priority in my mind. It was a general election, not a water referendum. There were other (far more important) issues
@Soccer T’s: ” I voted for an anti water charges candidate.”
Which one?
@The Risen: exactly right. I would also love to know how they came up with this shit when we’ve all been marching against the charges. I hope those who paid take note……and decide to put their marching boots on instead of sitting and wasting their money any our freedom of water
@The Risen: Great minds and all that!
Who’s responsible for vast waste of tax payers money. Surely someone is responsible?
@Willy Malone: I think what you want to know is who is accountable. Quite a few are responsible from Taoiseach to unions
@Willy Malone: it would be those who put their hand in your pocket and take your money , who then distribute it in the main through the network of cosy organisations ..
@Willy Malone: Big Phil Hogan. There’s the problem. But just look at how he was looked after.
If you paid it ,you MIGHT get some of it back . But you were still a fool ,you lacked the courage to say No . Won’t pay , didn’t pay, will never pay . Well done the Non payers for having the balls to say No
@Ivan Enoughofit: Do you want your gas and electricity paid for you as well? What about your tv Licence?
@Mad Mike: Do you genuinely believe that there are people reading your post who at this stage do not have the information that water is already paid for through general taxation?
@The Risen: Without in any way defending the Irish Water debacle, how does that work? If something is once paid for out of general taxation, it should be paid out of general taxation until the end of time?
If the argument is that we’re paying twice because we didn’t get a tax cut, that doesn’t really work. We aren’t paying enough taxes to cover all public expenses, so if we are paying taxes for water, what expenses are we not paying for?
@Ivan Enoughofit: Stop the nonsense. Local SF wanted us all to mark our houses so they’d know who the traitors were and who the Cant pay people were. What’s wrong with people making up their own minds? Why do the payers deserve to be abused? For not sharing your opinion, is it?
LOL! Course they did ‘mark’
@Ivan Enoughofit: I was a fool with water charges. (or perhaps not if I get my refund).
Where are those who said they would never pay their property tax ? They paid up with penalties, so I wasn’t a fool on that one.
@Jimmy O’Brien: Revenue had to take over the property tax, such was the rate of non compliance. That option was not open to the government for the water charge.
@Ivan Enoughofit: Don’t post a comment when you don’t know facts. I moved house and had to pay the charges or else the sale of my house and the house I wanted to buy wouldn’t have gone through. Both solicitors theirs and ours said the sale wouldn’t happen. That’s a fact.
@The Risen: Water Services were paid mainly from Motor Tax, mostly by pre-2008 car owners who had to pay penal rates since 2008 and who should now get their money back from this overcharging.
Diesel owners who are polluting the air with Nox and soot should pay the high Motor Tax not pre-2008 petrol owners……
add you voice to the 32,000 who signed the Unfair Car Tax Petition(Make Diesel Soot Polluters Pay – Petition) at
https://www.change.org/p/unfair-car-tax-law
@The Risen: just because somebody says that something will be paid for through general taxation doesn’t mean we can actually afford to do so!
@The Risen: Quotation marks, cos The is your real name I suppose. And yes they did ‘The’ . Do you not believe me? Do I give a f?
Those who paid were part of the problem. If everyone paid water charges would be in. Those who paid had in my opinion had a voice and the voted in favour of charges. They weren’t team players and therefore why should they get anything back?
@MC O’Dea: There were people who were bullied and blackmailed into paying, its not fair to categorise them with the obedient little sheep who did what they were told.
@The Risen: Sheep? fools?Yourself and the other charmer above sound like Clinton calling Trumpites deplorables. Anyone who doesn’t see things your way is a fool or worse. This attitude loses you support. But as long as you can feel self righteous….
@Mark Gearey: U ok hun? x
@Mark Gearey: that’s he jamming way…
@The Risen: I’m grand petal. Poxy arrogance annoys me. But don’t take it too personally. I know you mean well.
An EU country Slovenia have enshrined their water in their CONSTITUTION can never be privatised.
Charges coming in by the back door
@Tony Hartigan: there will be an increase in taxation and the like… and what about those already paying into Group Water Schemes and private area suppliers? Are they getting anything back? They are now technically paying “double”.
There was only good thing about IW: they had plans to take these schemes/companies over, repair them, stop the overcharging and cutting off water supplies. Will that still happen?
If those people that paid dont get a full refund will they organize a protest ? The boycott of paying for re-charging for water has/is working , I am sure people know by this time we pay many times for water through V.A.T. .car tax and in 2014 property tax went to Irish Water . Well done to all who stood up and fought back ,The only good that Irish Water has done is to make thousands of activists out of ordinary people young and old ,working class ,lower middle class ,Opened many eyes on how the media ,main political parties work hand in hand to drive agendas .
@whitecross: The working class and the lower middle class. So the full spectrum of society then, wink.
@whitecross: I would presume Solidarity and SF will organise these protests should refunds not happen. Wouldn’t hypocritical of them if the didn’t….no siree.
@whitecross: we pay many times for water? We barely pay once for it, it’s been grossly underfunded for years. On your logic we shouldn’t pay for petrol either because there’s VAT and duty on it.
It’s not enough. I want my motor tax and broadband refunded too.
@Mad Mike: If you’re paying twice for your broadband I’d be looking for a refund.
And funny you should mention motor tax. 2/3rds of it is going to irish water.
@The Risen:
If 2/3 of my motor tax of 220euro is going to Irish water, my motor tax at 73euro is great value.
@The Risen: what should be done with all of those employed at Irish Water? Should they all be laid off do you think? All of these people who were redeployed from councils, the many many admin people hired to oversee the billing process, and other office functions all now not needed.
@Kieran Woods: so you’ll have no problem when potholes are appearing?… you’ll know where your motor tax went.
@Sean @114: yea they should be laid off. Happens all the time.
@The Risen: We do pay twice for broadband, we pay at least 3 times for medical care, we pay at least twice for transport, we pay twice of electricity….
@Sean @114: the top bosses had previous in the council then they retired and snaked jobs with iw…most of the office staff belong to a call centre in Cork ..the real workers will continue with the councils ….
@Henry Matthews: So the office staff in a call centre aren’t real workers. De cheek o ya. What is a real worker to you?
@Mad Mike: I think you should get a refund first on your medication. It’s obviously not working
@Kieran Woods: it’s ok it isn’t. The Risen is just making up numbers. The figure is 25%.
@Mark Gearey: they don’t work for IW
@lavbeer: Who don’t? The staff in the call centre? I know they don’t. I was confused by mr Matthews distinguishing the office staff from the real workers. If he only meant they weren’t directly employed by iw then fair cop guv.
FF break GE promise,the will be punished in next GE.abolish water charges is only acceptable option to the public.it will remain an election issue.
Might get some of it back. What kind of a report/recommendation is that ? a sell out to the government. As a non payer I can understand some people were frightened into paying and should get their money back minus the 100 euro grant.Dennis O’ Brien’s interest’s were looked after by the inclusion of all new homes be metered. There still saying meters are needed to detect leaks, when it’s pretty obvious that the real agenda by FG and FF is the future selling of our water supply. No recommendations for a referendum on ownership of water. This issue hasnt gone away.
@Just Me: exactly as you’d imagine all new builds would have proper piping and insulation to stop leaks!!! How stupid do they think we are?
I don’t see a commitment to retain national ownership of the water system – did I miss something? That was the one thing that might have made the charges palatable in the first place – too late now of course.
@Pat O Neill: Because the envelope was handed over years ago…thus the meters….remember DOB and Enda ringing the bell in the NY stock exchange all those short years ago. It’s a done deal and FF know and are on board with this.It will be PRIVATISATION in the end..
Now let’s put our energies into the abolition of the USC and pension levy. These were a much worse imposition than water charges. But I wonder do people realize that.
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: The pension levy was abolished in 2016. Do you mean the Pension Related Deduction?
The VAT increase was also a bigger and more regressive hit, but I never saw anyone carrying a placard about that.
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair: nothing stopping you organising a protest.
@Micheal S. O’ Ceilleachair:
The scroungers don’t pay USC, increased taxation, property tax, medicines, doctors. They are the ones who can march to the dail hold up the traffic during the day and make life miserable for the rest of us. Did you not realise that?
Politicians who are deaf to the voice of the people and who conduct public governance in disregard of the interests of the public for the advancement of special interests will eventually pay the price.
@Tony Daly: That’s mighty optimistim.
Disgraceful. They should have ploughed through with the plans to install water meters and give their proverbial two fingers to all the scrounges who moaned about having to pay for something for once in their lives
@_doesnotcompute: that is an example of the derogatory and dismissive mentality of those who suffered a bad political failure. It was terribly mishandled but vested interests will continue to exploit this commercial opportunity.
@_doesnotcompute:
Exactly, meter the usage like any other utility and cut off the scroungers. Now the taxpayer picks up the tab once again and the spongers escape.
@_doesnotcompute: Do you work for Dennis.
@_doesnotcompute: . I have worked like most people all my life 44 years paid all the taxes , property tax .but i wont be re-charged for water , All the water mains we use was installed by our group water scheme many miles all paid for by home owners .The council took over the group scheme ,
@_doesnotcompute: IW gave use the great news that 71000 households or 8% waste water. We now have a billing system and repayments on best part of a billion euro to make without any real income. The main leaks in infrastructure still are there – a few fixed mo doubt but nowhere near where they could have been had they spent money wisely. This has been one of the biggest f###-ups on Irish history.
@_doesnotcompute: how stupid are you??? Really? You won’t mind paying for water so but have you thought of how much your kids and grandkids will be paying out for something that is abundantly falling from the sky most days of the week here in this country. Or have you got connections to the man who will ultimately be living off the fees your descendants
@_doesnotcompute: exit the Europe.
They are still trying to establish a system of metered use, this is for privatisation further down the road. Only constitutionally protected public water will do and we will have to keep fighting until we get it.
Its still a scam to introduce water charges as originally planned
The goal is still to sell our water off to the greedy zillionIre club.
1.7 ha. How long before its 1.5, 1.25, 1.
Wheres the referendum about ownership as demanded by the people.
This is slight of hand.
When will FF grow a pair of boll1x and pull the plug on the absolute waste of public funds trying to ram this down our throats.
No more meters bought from DOB companies
Protect ownership Of Irish water for the Irish people.
Make sure that Water services are paid for through general taxation.
I’m a tax payer, I pay many thousand of euro per annum in tax and PRSI and I get virtually nothing in return except when I turn on my tap, clean water flows out.
This service must be protected for future generations and paid for through taxation.
They gave away the Gas, They gave away The fisheries, They wanted to give away the forests and they want to give away the water system.
Please please please protest and keep this resource to serve the people.
What’s one more massive €300+ Million Euro, Fianna Fail u-turn – this time on water meters again! This next latest u-turn is going to cost you, the taxpayer, once more.
Not that Fianna Fail give a crap. They are getting their huge wage increases for the next three years too.
Wow, definitely going to get some money back, for everyone. How many years will they count back for the group water schemes?
Anyone still defending the quango are blueshirt and ff die hards. Trying to defend this and letting Apple of the hook tells us everything we want to know about these people.
Where does this ‘definitely going to get your money back’ claim come from? The report says ‘if possible’. This is the public service we are talking about. You can be damn sure that this get out clause will be latched onto and it will be proclaimed that they invested €200m in magic beans and an IT systems that only allow for fee collection not refund. No refunds will issue and the matter will be swept under the carpet, just like TV lic fee non-payment and LPT undervaluation/non-payment. Nothing is enforced in this country as our police personnel are too busy taking imaginary breath tests.
@Sean @114: Need to subtract the bribe and a small administrative charge as is usually applicable in such situations
Yay for all the stupid cowardly politicians in Ireland.
@Mark Gearey: You from above….
“Anyone who doesn’t see things your way is a fool or worse.”
So, to paraphrase you, any politicians who doesn’t see things your way are ‘stupid’ and scowardly’??
Well done!
@The Risen: Yeah ok. Are you a TD? Cos that’s who I was referring to. Is it too harsh for you that kinda talk? They came to us with an idea to pay for water/ bank collapse debt and then fudged around for years cos they don’t have the balls to stand by that idea. I didn’t think you’d mind so much. But I see – I called u out for insulting large chunks of the general populace for paying a bill. So I’m a hypocrite for insulting experienced politicians for wasting a fortune half arsing a plan. Is that what you’re getting at?
Times like this I seriously miss the red thumb
i wonder what happens with the likes us that have no choice but pay on a private water scheme or do without? does the water conservation grant still apply?
@Stiofán De Priondárgas: No it doesn’t. We have being left high and dry. There a time FG look after rural Ireland, now they’re ruled by FF who jumped on any bandwagon and the noisy rabble of the left. I asked my local Sinn Fein TD at the last election why should we pay for our water when urban dwellers don’t, he coughed and spluttered some nonsense out about how SF think water should be free for everyone. Blah blah blah, but at the end of the day Sinn Fein and the rest of them don’t give a flying f#£k about us.
@mickmc: urban dwellers pay a hell of a lot more in LPT and living life in a busy lane every day of every week. Try getting around Dublin whilst trying to get to work. And we pay tax for that pleasure too
@Mary Murphy: wrong. LPT is a different system designed to pay local councils. Rural folk pay the same road tax, VAT and income tax as the City dwellers, so are technically entitled to have free water too IMO.
@Mary Murphy: Well if there any justice in the world your property tax should go up somewhere in the region of 400-500 euro in order to bring equality to the situation. That’s addition cost anyone living in a modern rural home now pays when you take into account the cost of water which in my case is €150 a year (assuming we don’t go over our very low limits) plus the cost of running and maintaining our sewage treatment systems.
On the whole wilful wastage thing, you know there are people who will go away in the winter and leave a tap running just in case it gets cold and the pipes freeze. Do you genuinely think the rest of us should pay for their waste through general taxation or whatever?
@Damocles: my swimming pool overflowed last time I tried that
@Damocles: Including the people you mention, ireland still has one of the lowest usage of water per capita in the OECD. You do not set domestic policy based on the actions of a tiny tiny minority. If water wastage was the issue, the half billion wasted on meters should have been used to fix the major leaks in the mains.
@Damocles: the wastage of water was only a straw that FF clutched onto when they were about to pull the plug (no pun intended) on this shameful so-called government only to find an opinion poll suggesting there was not enough political gain for FF. they had to pin their flag to something and the water wastage was the flimsy excuse they clutched onto.
@Damocles: who the hell do you know that leaves their taps running??
SOME of our money back – SOME??? If we owe a cent to the State, Revenue pile in with penalty fines AND interest. We should get ALL our money back, not SOME. Imagine a TD on,y getting ‘some’ of their scandalous expenses or salaries or perks or pensions….need I go on.
@Gerry Carroll: well Gerry you should have held fire shouldn’t you? Looking at the bigger picture everyone should have stood together. Only for the ones who said no have we gotten a slight improvement. However it’s not enough. Everyone needs to get out now and show this government that no means no.
I want all of my money back and I will get it
@Noreen Waters: I hope your right, but I would’nt hold my breath.
@Noreen Waters: I hope you get it but have your eyes been opened yet?? That’s the important thing. Because you’ve been ripped off once so that’s ok but the next time you feel like paying maybe look at the bigger picture
Can we …pre-2008 car owners … get our money back please. We have paid for (subsidised) everyone’s water services since 2008with penal annual Motor Tax … €434 million per annum. 32,000 signed for fairness.
Diesel Soot Polluters should be asked to pay the high annual Motor Tax not us pre-2008 petrol car owners
The poor victim in this is Denis O’brien ,I think we should do a whip around
Only those who pail ALL their billed water charges should get a refund. Those who paid less than the full bills issued are law breakers and should not be rewarded.
have your say