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THE FAMILY OF a Limerick man who went missing 20 years ago have renewed their appeal for anyone with information of his whereabouts to come forward.
The family of Matthew Carroll told RTÉ’s Crimecall that they are looking for the information which could bring them closure after two decades of heartache.
Matthew has not been seen since he left a group of friends at Roxboro Shopping Centre to walk a short distance to his home at 8pm on the evening of 8 June 1998.
The 30-year-old was out celebrating a cup win for Carew Park that evening in the Roxboro Road area of Limerick.
When Matthew went missing, his daughter Trudy was five-years-old and twenty years on she says she still feels the impact of her dad’s disappearance.
“When Dad went missing, I was really young so I have some memories but don’t really have much.
“I feel that I missed out on a lot because I can see it in my two-year-old, the strong bond he has with his dad I didn’t have a chance to have with mine,” Trudy said.
Matthew’s brother Seamus said that “family meant everything to him” and that his disappearance has taken a toll on all of them.
“My mother went to her deathbed not knowing where Matthew is…Even just to bury a bone, she would have been happy with that.
All we can do now is still look for answers. We’re not going to forget about Matthew.
Gardaí have asked that anyone with information about Matthew’s whereabouts contact them through Crimecall on 1800 40 50 60 or at Roxboro Road Garda Station on 061 214340.
Isn’t Ruhama, a state-funded organisation made up of the same groups that ran the Magdalene Laundries?
@Mumpsimus:
Another tax payer funded outfit. Full of conjecture and using the media to peddle it about. It’s not in their interests to see it safely legalized.
They won’t have a copy of their own case study that shows porn is responsible for a whole new generation of violent Irish men compared to say 50 or 60 years ago because that’s pure speculation.
@Milk The Drones: I disagree with that part of what your saying, young boys’ first experience with women is seeing porn and so expect that of girls, how they should treat girls etc etc, that I do believe.
@Charles McGuire: Abuse back in old Ireland was as common as having dinner, no smut back then just legions legions of priest and the rest raping at will, so how do you explain all the abuse back then?…..I look forward to you not replying because there is nothing you can say that will suit the agenda of these religions groups trying to control us again.
@Mumpsimus: Ruhama is religious order at heart, http://sexworkersallianceireland.org have been trying to get sex work decriminalised for years, these are the actual sex workers. Sex workers aren’t all victims, slaves and being trafficked etc like Ruhama would have you believe. There are people who actually enjoy their work. Let them at it. Decriminalise and regulate.
@Peter Hughes: Those priests were older men abusing children, these days you have very young boys committing the most heinous of crimes against women. I agree with most of what you say but I disagree with porn having no influence, I believe it does, being exposed to porn at such a young age it can distort the image of what women should be and act.
@Charles McGuire: It was a lot worse back in old Ireland and you know it!, trying to say its worse now is nothing but a twisted agenda ridden religious lie, you have been proved lairs in the past to further your ideals and you continue to do it to this day whatever the cost……
@Peter Hughes: I am far from religious, I don’t have a religious agenda, are you the type of person that won’t hear what others are saying and the only thing you can come up with is… Oh religious lies!!! Religious agenda!! No…Did I say it was worse back then? No… I said I believe porn has to have an effect on young boys whose first experiences of sex is through porn
@Milk The Drones:
another moron. id say you didnt even read the article
@Milk The Drones: If you knew anything about Ruhama or about prostitution and the damage it does to women, you would know that Ruhama have a library of these facts. Where is your humanity? Where is your research? You won’t even put your own name on your post and your ignorance is dangerous.
@Mumpsimus: No it is NOT one of the groups that ran the Magalene Laundries. Get your facts straight! They are a brilliant organisation and not religious in the least. The help women involved in prostitution. They are a non-judgemental organisation that treats women as humans no matter what their lives or work is like.
@Peter Hughes: Peter, Ruhama is not a religious group. Get your facts straight. Their only agenda is to improve the lives of women who work in prostitution. They have ample evidence that the sex that many are now looking for from prostitutes is getting more and more violent and that it comes as direct result of the violence in pornography. That is a fact. If you are going to make these kinds of statements you might want to do some research.
@Peter Hughes: Why are you harping on about religious agendas? I think you are the one with an agenda Peter…why are you trying to create this red herring with “old Ireland”. Why are suggesting that anyone who disagrees with you is religious or a priest and a liar? Please give us something reasonable to respond to.
@Mumpsimus: I can’t believe the 464 people who have liked your comment are so ignorant. It is depressing.
@Saba Jewellery: From the Irish Times…
“Two of the religious congregations which ran Magdalene laundries in the State set up and continue to run the Dublin-based Ruhama agency
[...]
“Both congregations refused to meet Justice for Magdalenes, a support group for women who had been in the laundries, including those run by the Good Shepherd Sisters at Limerick, Cork, Waterford and New Ross, and those run by the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity at High Park in Drumcondra and Seán MacDermott Street in Dublin”
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/laundry-orders-run-sex-workers-aid-group-1.606313
You just don’t want to believe the truth.
@Saba Jewellery: Absolute rubbish, I have had to survive the various aspects of Ruhama’s self interested nonsense since 1989 (when they were still running the laundries as well) and I have never seen them give any real, healthy help to anyone:
https://mymythbuster.wordpress.com/fair-warning-please-read/
@Saba Jewellery:
What kind of person can look at the utter, financial desperation that drives so many survival sex workers – then plot, scheme and manipulate for years to impose the Nordic Model that, self evidently makes their harsh lives even harder and offers them absolutely nothing they need or have any use for?
Whether you can survive with some tolerable quality of life is many times more important than whether you sell sex, particularly when you have no other viable options.
Maybe it’s time to make the Sex Industry legal? It would be much easier to regulate and be much safer for these women aswell as the government being able to tax the industry. Ireland is now and much more liberal country with divorce, gay marriage and abortion. Maybe now is the right time to legalise the sex Industry?
@Mark Edwards: absolutely Mark! It should be legalized..100% agree
@Lucille Ball: I’m a bit of a free market liberal so the idea of legalising everything and let people make their own minds up is appealing.
But when I’m in other cities, my budget hotel choices mean i often seem to find myself near the seedier end of town. I don’t think I’d like to see the sort of red light areas that inevitably spring up replicated here.
Maybe I’m blind I’m Ireland to the activity that happens. But I also don’t get the impression it’s some sort of utopia of empowered women and men working the sex game when it is legalised.
I’m not saying I have the answer but in this instance I don’t think it is so clear cut
@Mark Edwards: Agreed, it should be taken off the streets and legalised. That would give the women who work in the sex industry some sort of chance at retaining some dignity and working safely.
@Mark Edwards: legalising it has not worked in Amsterdam. The women here are just as poorly treated as anywhere.
@Dave Doyle: that would send a terrible message to young people. Would you like a family member working in this industry?
@Seamus Mac: Seamus its called choice……..if women choose why is it any of your business?, ladies trying to pay for a roof over their heads, trying to pay for a degree…..keep your judgments to yourself
@Peter Hughes: same question to you Peter?
@2thFairy: Please note that sex workers want Decriminalisation as they have in New Zealand and New South Wales, not Legalisation as in the Netherlands or Germany which put all sorts of restrictions on how they can work and makes them jump through hoops just to be allowed to work.
Note also that Decriminalisation does NOT mean getting rid of laws against violence, exploitation or abuse, despite what abolitionists like Ruhama and so on claim.
@AffordableLeather: Why would they want it to be legalised? Then they’d have to pay tax. They’re getting fuqqed enough as is.
@Billy.: Do you wonder if every self-employed person you meet pays their taxes? No?
So if a sex worker came to the attention of the authorities because they’d been attacked, and they had a lifestyle that belied their claim to earning very little money, I think the tax man would be investigating them in very short order.
Of course you could ask all those big businesses who base their operations in Ireland to avoid paying taxes about their affairs…
@Mark Edwards: no ffing way. So it can end up looking like Amsterdam? and make men feel ok about renting some poor woman for the night? yuk. It wont make the industry any less exploitative
@Lucille Ball: Why should it be legalised? What would turning a section of society into a commodity be a good thing? Who will police legalised prostitution? Do you really think it will empower women and create some sort of gender equality? Ireland doesn’t even have a vice squad and if you look at Germany you will find out that since prostitution was legalised there more women have been murdered, more have gone missing and thousands of eastern European women have flocked there to work – because they are poor. When these migrant women go missiong nobody even knows who they are so they aren’t even included in official figures. You know who ends up in brothels Lucille? Migrant women and mostly trafficked women. It has been a complete disaster in Germany and the authorities have admitted that. Sweden’s model on the other hand has been a massive success and many other countries are following suit. Legalised prostitution leads to rape, murder, enslavement and paedophilia. Have any of the people making these comments on this site actually looked into the ramifications of prostitution? Get some sense!!!
@Lucille Ball: Yes sell women. Go out for dinner and right next door you can buy some shoes and then go buy a woman..Seriously!!!
@Saba Jewellery: Germany has *legalised* sex work, but sex workers want Decriminalisation.
The Nordic model has resulted in sex workers being harassed, made homeless, deported or having their children taken away.
If that is what you call a “success” then you really need to look at the facts, rather than the distortions of the abolitionists whose real aim is to tell women they can or cannot do.
@Saba Jewellery: Ireland does have a vice squad…bigger since the 2017 act and disastrously combining persecuting sex workers with protecting them, which can’t even be healthy for the Gardai involved never mind anyone else.
Nobody wants German style regulation – just take sex work out of the criminal code…like plumbers, so that the people who sell sex (some in absolute desperation) can get on with making the money they need in the same peace and safety as any other honest person, and frankly, a fair few who are a lot less honest.
Very biased opinion. No commentary from the perspective of workers who want the industry regulated to keep them safer. “My father and brothers, who would never do this” Really? How can you be so sure of that? There are literally hundreds of these workers in Ireland and I’m sure their clientele come from all walks of life…married, single, small families, big families etc. Appreciate there are victimized women doing this for a living but the article is nothing short of hyperbole.
@Cheeky Bums: of course it’s a biased opinion. It’s written from the perspective of the sex slave. Perhaps you could write a counter piece about what it’s like from the men’s perspective to give the balance that you obviously think exists.
@Cheeky Bums: very biased opinion? Bit of a tautology, no? It’s just an opinion piece. I’m sure there are others with different views on the subject. This just happens to be the author’s view.
@2thFairy: Surely an opinion is formed by analyzing evidence from conflicting arguments and based on this analysis, come to a conclusion. This piece basically says buyers of sex = evil phallic bearers enslave fallen women.
@Cheeky Bums: yep. That analysis sounds about right. That’s exactly my opinion also.
@2thFairy: just FYI there were two brothels shut down in Naas and Newbridge in recent times…both were run by women. Women facilitating the prostitution of other women. Kinda dumps on your point a bit. Go ahead and google it.
@2thFairy: “Perspective of a sex slave”? Um, no, it’s written from the prospective of an outreach worker/would-be savior who clearly is not listening to a representative cross-section of the very sex workers she’s trying to help. If she was representing that perspective, she know such people have bigger issues with the police than with customers and would not support a policy of increased police power and indirect criminalization.
Sorry I am pro-choice. If a couple want to willingly enter into a transaction which involves sexual services then let them. When one listens to these people attempt to impose their morality on others one will, in most case, find that there concerns could be fully addressed by making prostitution legal. These do-gooders create the dangerous environment that they express concern about..
@Stephen Duffy: did you read the article? They are NOT two consenting adults embarking on a mutually agreed transaction. One of them is someone who has been let down by society, family, friends, etc. and has ended up in prostitution with no self worth. No woman grows up wanting to one day be a prostitute. The men that treat these women like this behave worse than dogs. They are the lowest form of human life.
@2thFairy: but everything been equil do you not think sellers and buyers are the lowest form of life, the author stats what kinda man buys sex from a heavily pregnant woman and kinda heavily pregnant sells herself..
@2thFairy: yes I did read the article and my comment still stands. The profession could be like any other profession if these people would stop virtue-signalling. And by the way who told you no woman willing goes into prostitution? The sex workers association claim that many, women and men enter into the profession willingly The fact that their works is made so much more difficult and dangerous by those that are using it to impose they’d morality on others and then claim to be acting in sex workers interest. Remember “My body; My choice”..??? Nearly all the problems detailed could be addressed by legalisation and regulation. Now do these people some good and advocate for that..
@Jack: a desperate woman with no other option open to her. It’s called survival.
@Stephen Duffy: if only wishing made it so. You are failing to understand that this article is explaining that these women are treated less than human and they don’t have the means to escape. Many are chained up and held against their will. Legalisation won’t stop this. There will always be depraved men who will pay for this. As long as there are people like you out there who think these women have choice there will always be ignorance.
@2thFairy: no other option? none what’s so ever? Really??
@Jack: really. Yes. No other option.
I’m both sorry and happy for you that you have no idea how truly awful it is for so many of these women.
@Stephen Duffy: “the profession” you are kidding right? Would you like this profession for your daughter or is it just for foreigners & poor people?
@2thFairy: chained up examples please
@Seamus Mac: Her body, Her choice. But to answer your question; No I wouldn’t like it because its illegal and operates in an underworld thanks to people like you. What the hell gives you the right to make these men and women operate under the conditions they do.? You’re the one that’s demeaning and degrading to these people; not me..
@2thFairy: It is in fact a myth that the only reason women do sex work is out of desperation. There are many motivations for entering sex work, and they exist on a continuum, with most doing sex work by choice. In some cases, that’s a choice out of a limited set of options, but the way you remedy that is by *increasing* the options available to such people, not by further criminalization. (And make no mistake, “Nordic model” type laws are a form of criminalization.)
Even if prostitution is something someone wants to get out of, how does arresting customers actually address that? Such policies are analogous to the failed “end demand” policies of the drug war – they use a set of showy carceral policies and ginned-up moral outrage as a substitute for addressing root causes of social problems.
@2thFairy: dogs? Don’t use dogs to compare. You obviously don’t know dogs
@Stephen Duffy: but if it was legal you would have no problem with a family member doing this sort of work? Hey dad just heading down to do my night shift at the legal brothel?
@Seamus Mac: Would you want your daughter cleaning toilets for the minimum wage? Would you want her working for an exploitative boss on a Zero Hours contract where she’s told “You do the hours we want, when we say, or you don’t get paid and you can’t buy food or pay your rent”?
Your problem is the stigma attached to sex work and you are only *maintaining* that stigma with your attitude that it is bad or shameful.
You also appear to have no respect for the choices of consenting adults, you just want to tell them “You should not be allowed to do this because *I* don’t like it”.
If my daughter or son or anyone else wanted to be a sex worker, I would want to make sure that they could work in the safest conditions possible and that means not having do-gooders with a Saviour Complex trying to force them into a hazardous situation by passing laws that make it harder for them to employ security or work together with others for safety or criminalising clients so it’s not possible to screen out the dangerous ones.
The only way to achieve this is by decriminalisation so sex workers can organise and run their businesses for their own protection and, if they have a problem, to contact the Police and get help, rather than risk being arrested themselves or even evicted or have their children taken away as has happened in countries with the Nordic Model.
@Seamus Mac: you’re missing the point, it’s wouldn’t be my decision… “my body; my choice” … “Trust Woman” do those terms mean anything or were they meaningless throw-away slogans.. ???
@2thFairy: Loose Women or Lost Women? The re-emergence of the myth of ‘white slavery’ in contemporary discourses of ‘trafficking in women by Jo Doezema
@Stephen Duffy: its a simple question Stephen. If you dont want to answer it thats fine.
@AffordableLeather: you are making a comparison between prostitution & being a cleaner? Ill ask you, which job would you want for your son or daughter & why?
@paddy: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trafficked-Terrifying-Story-British-Forced/dp/0007438885
read this book about a young English girl that was trafficked by who she thought was her boyfriend, turns out he was grooming her for a year. This is just one story but she talks about the others she met on her journey.She was chained up and injected with drugs and it took her years to get back home. I’m giving you the blurb because I very much doubt you’ll read her story or any others like it.
@Seamus Mac: good because any advice I’d give my daughters is personal and that position is not inconsistent with saying that the sex industry should be legal and regulated. Only when that happens can the issues of people trafficking, exploitation, public health, undeclared incomes, organised crime be addressed. Ireland answer to every problematic issue is introduce a new law. New laws just push the issue further underground, increased the risk to the workers and increase the illegal and untaxed profits to be made..
@2thFairy: Not even those who go looking for a rich lad to marry solely for the contents of his wallet ? Pull the other one darling…..
@Seamus Mac: I would support whatever *choice* my *adult* daughter or son made.
I would also make sure they were educated enough to be able to look at the facts (not the propaganda and lies) and decide whether such work was appropriate for them and whether they could do it safely and without exploitation or abuse.
I don’t allow stigma and prejudice to control my decision making processes.
@2thFairy: These men have watched too many episodes of Game of Thrones and the Sopranos, I think. Makes them think all s ex workers are as up for it as the punters.
@Pauline Gallagher: I’ve been working in the adult industry for over 25 years. I’m on Twitter and have many sex workers and their organisations as followers and who I’m following.
And the one thing they have in common is that the vast majority of them just want to be left alone to work as they *choose* to. They want sex work to be decriminalised (as has already happened in New Zealand and New South Wales) so they won’t be harassed by Police or made homeless or be deported or have their children taken away as happens under Nordic Model or other “buyer criminalisation” systems.
They also do not want to be “rescued” by people with a Savior Complex. Nor to be told that they are victims who are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome nor they were abused as children or must be on drugs or any other such nonsense.
By the way, they *also* want to stop exploitation, abuse and trafficking, however they know that these things should not be conflated with consensual sex work.
They also know that decriminalisation doesn’t mean getting rid of laws against exploitation or abuse or any other nonsense that the Moral Crusaders of Ruhama put out.
Please *listen* to all sex workers and not just the few who are regularly trotted out to say “I had a crappy time doing sex work, so I want to ban it for everyone, no matter what they say, because I don’t like it”.
@Stephen Duffy: so just for other peoples kids then.
@AffordableLeather: you ignored the question, quite adeptly, but ignored it all the same.
@Seamus Mac: No, you just won’t accept my answer because it doesn’t suit your agenda.
Try talking to some actual sex workers and not just the few “I had a terrible time, so I want to prevent everyone from doing sex work” victims who are trotted out like show ponies by the abolitionists.
@AffordableLeather: its a straightforward question & your refusal to answer it speaks volumes.
@2thFairy: I see you have a typo, let me fix it for you:
One of them is someone who has been let down by society, family, friends, etc. and has ended up in prostitution with no *MONEY*
Ruhama consistently treat sex workers like animals, to be exploited, not intelligent human beings…the the behaviour of clients is far more varied and generally less destructive.
@AffordableLeather: I had a cr*ppy time doing sex work but, apart from the fact that finding it harder, to make less money, in more danger as per the Nordic Model wouldn’t have been helpful (to say the least) if my feeling ruled the world it would be a very long time since anyone saw football, or boiled carrots…
Wow I’ve so much admiration for this woman and her colleagues. What a tough and selfless job.
Porn is so normal now, you’re a prude if you think there’s anything wrong with it. It’s in our children’s hands too early, and effecting the development of healthy sex life and relationships.
Controls on porn should be tightened.
The author is right that we sweep prostitution under the carpet in this country. It’s the oldest profession in the world but that doesn’t make it right or acceptable.
It’s high time we stamped down on buyers of prostitution good and proper! Name and shame buyers, that would be the best deterrent. And put proper supports on place for women seeking to get out or are being lured in.
@Motherofthree: name and shame buyers sorry!!! . Would you take the same stance with people who buy drugs, drink alcohol, smoke cigerattes, or who like gambling?? Maybe it’s time to stamp out the suppliers of this shameful business . People need to take personal responsibility for their own actions stop blaming men for participating in a transaction between two adults.
@Motherofthree: …it’s already illegal to buy or sell so a court appearance will spring up in a local paper. That’s obviously not enough of a deterrent. Why not legalize, regulate and tax?
@Jason Fogarty: yes. Name and shame these vile men. These women have reached a point where they have no other choice. It’s a case of survival for many and trying to put food in their children’s mouths. The buyer is simply taking advantage of that.
@Cheeky Bums: this legalisation you talk of doesn’t work in Amsterdam why would it work here. The women there are just as poorly treated as anywhere. Don’t be fooled by thinking it works, it doesn’t.
@2thFairy: women are profiting from men paying no taxes and you reckon men are taking advantage . What your doing is removing responsibility from women and infantilizing them . Who is worse the drug dealer or the addict?
@Jason Fogarty: the dealer every time. Troll.
@2thFairy: lol I’m a troll because I countered your weak argument with a more logical and balanced counter argument.
I believe we’re all autonomous human beings with the power to take responsibility. I dont like the way men get blamed for everything that goes wrong in society . It’s not going to do women and society any good to keep debasing men in the long run
@2thFairy: what’s your opinion on stripper’s?
@Jason Fogarty: who said anything about men being responsible for all of societies short comings. As long as you try to defend the vile and depraved actions of men who support women to live the life of a sex slave you can expect to considered a troll as I can’t fathom why anyone could try to argue the point that the men are in any way right in their actions in these circumstances.
@2thFairy: your just trolling now.
@Jack: and your just another man who believes these women have choice.
@Jason Fogarty: there is nothing logical or balanced about your arguement. The majority of women who end up in prostitution have ended up there because they have been groomed from a young age. Usually by a man, but not always. They are introduced to sex before the age of consent that is rape no matter what way you look at it. Some are addicts and are presuaded to sell sex to feed their habit but this habit is fed by the person who is selling them for sex and selling them the drugs so its a win win for the dealer. Those that aren’t addicts at the begining usually are very quickly and not by their own choice either. A woman who makes a conscious willing and sober decision to become a sex worker is an absolute miniority in this industry. Women and children are trafficed and forced into an industry that is dangerous to stay and dangerous to leave. The sex industry is about power and control and it is very rare that that power and control is held by the woman. ” I believe we’re all autonomous human beings with the power to take responsibility. I dont like the way men get blamed for everything that goes wrong in society . It’s not going to do women and society any good to keep debasing men in the long run”
Perhaps you should take your own advice and take responsibility , because on this particular topic , the men involved in this particular industry (and some woman ) are the ones that minipulate ,abuse , rape , etc. Your threat that it “won’t do women any good to keep debasing men in the long run” is absolute sexist nonsense. You are obviously fearful that any women should regain any sort of power or control of their own lives. The fact that you can read this article and not feel any sort of compassion for the vulnerable people(young boys too) that end up in this speaks volumes about the type of person you are. For the record most men are awesome but the ones in this industry are clearly not. So please don’t make excuses for them.
@2thFairy: Taking the moral high ground will not work . People are entitled to difference of opinion on contentious issues without being vilified as being morally inferior.
Stop trying to project your own subjective morality on everyone else .
There is way more women working in the sex industry of their own esteem that are happy to be there than not.
I personally would not like to see anyone I love resort to having to sell themself but I’m grown up enough to know that people have different moral values and they are entitled to act them out as they see fit.
@Cheeky Bums: its not illegal to sell sex https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/new-sex-bill-makes-it-a-crime-to-pay-prostitutes-for-services-31554043.html
@Jason Fogarty: “There is way more women working in the sex industry of their own esteem that are happy to be there than not.”
Some resources to back up that claim.?
@Bee Johnson: you say the majority have no choice I looked it up you should too before you tell blatant lies 68% say there there for the money and their own sexuality
@Bee Johnson: I agree with you that sex trafficking is terrible and it needs to be eradicated and the men that are complicit in it should be prosecuted.
I’ll have to take your word on girls being coerced into the sex industry as you havent given any Refs.
The women that are working in the sex industry of their own volition and free will are the girls I am taking about and theres plenty no doubt.
I’ve known plenty of Irish and foreign girls who were employed on the sex lines, stripper clubs and massage parlours while they back packed around Oz . They would tell us their funny encounters with drunk guys while we drank in the hostel . No one coaresd these girls and some are back home in Ireland now in very respectable occupations and neighbours and friends are none the wiser .
@Motherofthree: what? To be the self appointed moral guardian of a nation? That’s a job that’s as tough as you make it. It’s all to easy, men bad, women good, men exploitative women victims, all porn is bad porn! Etc. what I’d like to see from these witches is the evidence. Actual evidence not circumstantial evidence that porn leads directly to abuse? Is there any other than a load of old wives tales? But no, it’s far easier to just keep stirring the cauldron of public opinion with pieces like this!
@Bee Johnson: try sex workers alliance Ireland.. You know, the folks who actually work in the industry, who’s voices are not permitted to be heard while the former proprieters of Magdalene Laundries in Ruhama decide to speak over them..
@Jack: OK let me explain this to you, when you take and underground industry where a huge volume of the participants are not there through there own free will, or are but are abused or addicts , how many of them do you think have sat down and filled in a satisifcation survey. Probably not 100% of them right or even close to that. So your figure of 68% means notthing really. Forget about the sex industry for a second, Take domestic violence and how many people remain in the relationship of their own free will but yet are subjected to viiolence both physical and emotional. They can walk away but choose not to or they do but go back. It is not because they enjoy being absued it is because it is not easily to see what you are in when you are in it, It is not easy to find the confidence to rebuild your life when being absued is all you know. That is the nature of abuse I could go on but theres no point you obviously have no understanding of it and refuse to be open minded enough to learn.
@Jason Fogarty: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trafficked-Terrifying-Story-British-Forced/dp/0007438885
You can start by reading this book, there’s plenty of references and lists of charities that help these women, they woudl not exist if there was not a need for them.
I take you points about you friends but they were working in an industry where they are protected to a degree, on chatlines there is not physical harm, in strip clubs there are very strict rules regarding touching and bouncers to protect the girls and in massage parlours well I’m not quite sure when it comes to happy endings but I would imagine they still felt safe were things to get out of hand. But you cannot compare these industries to the underground curb crawling and illegal brothel industry . How would you feel if you found out your daughters boyfriend was pimping her our to supply them with drugs, would you still sit around and giggle about it over a few beers
@Bee Johnson: I fully agree with you regarding the different types of industries. In Australia this industry is regulated and I feel it would be a better solution to the no solution they currently have in Ireland .
Take the control away from the traffickers and pimps Bring the industry out into the open where girls can go to a place of work with security to keep them safe and where there are controls on working hours and health checks.
People will always want what they crave . Imagine what would happen if they banned alcohol, cigarettes or soft drinks in Ireland it would immediately go underground and criminal elements would take control like they do with drugs already .
Look what prohibition did in America before it was disbanded . I agree take it off the streets and make it safe
@2thFairy: If “these women” “have no other choice” how does it help them to destroy the market they depend on for an income? Seems to me that alone is bound to be one more devastating blow to them.
Do Ruhama pay to have their propaganda pieces inserted into the Journal? What’s the going rate for this service? Of course with the UK trying to put together anti- porn legislation at the moment, no doubt Ruhama will be chomping at the bit to get something similar done here.
@Patrick Swan: are you pro porn? Also its an opinion piece.
@Seamus Mac: I’m against having authoritarian puritans trying to make a comeback.
@Patrick Swan: When are we going to stop listening to religious fruit cakes trying to control us again, we had this in the past and it led to rape on demand from them with nobody able to speak up, its sickening that they still get so much influence to shape how we live.
@Patrick Swan: always avoiding the questions.
@Peter Hughes: just out of interest Peter, do you think prostitution should be legal?
@Seamus Mac: Its safer for women for a start but that’s not high up on your agenda is it?, all you care about it punishing the evil man….second you can tax it. At present its underground and in the hands of criminals who have free rain to do as they please. Its totally logical to legalize and regulate it.
@Peter Hughes: nah peter, I’m more worried about women & men being used & abused. Would you like a family member to be working in this industry?
Just an opinion, why don’t we stop making assumptions and ask the sex workers themselves what is it that they would like? More regulation? More support in order to leave the profession? The ones that are adult women or men, at least, should be entitled to give their opinion. Very different case are the children exploited in prostitution, of course. So that we can bring the debate between the ones that think they are consenting adults and the ones that see them as victims on a more solid ground. Society cannot make fair decisions based on opinions only.
@Daniela Monza: I think you’re right, most people have opinions based on assumptions, likes and dislikes, and hearsay.
Maybe it does need to be legalized to pull it out of the criminal world, but I’m not sure if we (or anyone) have the capability to legislate and monitor the industry in a way that prevents victim creation.
On balance I would guess a legalized system would be less harmful than a criminal one that we will never defeat.
@Sega Yolo: Please note that sex workers want Decriminalisation as they have in New Zealand and New South Wales, not legalisation (eg in Germany and the Netherlands).
Decriminalisation has been demonstrated to protect them and help them work safely.
The Nordic model (also known as the ‘Swedish model’)
In 1998, the Swedish parliament passed “The Protection of Women”: a law reform penalizing the demand for commercial sex, while decriminalizing the sex worker. Its goals are to curb the demand for commercial sex, and to promote gender equality.
The model was first adopted by Sweden in 1999, and later adopted by Norway and Iceland. It criminalizes situations where money, drugs, gifts, or other forms of compensation are exchanged for sexual services.
In 2004, the Swedish police and the Ministry of Justice released a report on the state of prostitution since the 1998 reform, and found that:
There were fewer sex clients, but a larger proportion were dangerous
Sex workers had less time to assess clients
The prices for sexual services had fallen
More clients were ready to pay for unprotected sex
Sex workers felt that their risk of violence had increased
Human trafficking increased as resources directed to watching clients and sex workers
The report also brought to light a new form of crime that had arisen: women posing as sex workers to rob clients (who would fear reporting the robbery to the police for fear of being charged with attempting to purchase sexual services).
The New Zealand model
In 2003, New Zealand passed the Prostitution Reform Act, meant to decriminalize certain activities related to prostitution. It was also created to:
Protect sex workers from exploitation, and safeguard their human rights
Promote the safety, health and welfare of sex workers
Create a prostitution framework that is conducive to public health
Prohibit the use in prostitution of persons under 18
Reduced human trafficking into sex work
The Act defines “sex worker” as “a person who provides commercial sexual services,” and makes it legal for people to enter into contracts for sexual services.
Specific provisions are also found in the Act, which are intended to minimize the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, and to protect the health of the sex worker and the client. The Act states that every operator of a business of prostitution must “take all reasonable steps” to ensure that no sexual services will be provided unless a “prophylactic sheath or other appropriate barrier” is used.
In 2005, a man was convicted of an offence under the Act for taking his condom off during sexual intercourse without the knowledge of the sex worker.
Comparing the two models
In a 2005 document released by the Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network, the organization stated that New Zealand’s model was “much more respectful of the autonomy, dignity and human rights of sex workers” compared to the Swedish laws.
The organization highlighted evidence that the Swedish law had not eliminated prostitution, and that it had resulted in more dangerous conditions for vulnerable women sex workers.
“The New Zealand model offers a better example of a reform that respects, protects and fulfills the human rights and welfare of sex workers and holds more promise for better protecting their health,” the organization wrote.
In 1860 to 1920 Dublin was the red light district of Europe . Just a short walk from Amiens street station you had the area of Monto short for Montgomery street . Up to 1600 prostitutes work in this area each day . They where often women that came to Dublin looking for work and ended up as prostitutes . The Dublin women that ran the brotels took advantage of them . When they fell pregnant there was no longer any use for them so they ended up dumped on the street . It’s not always men that exploit these women . https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monto
@John Smith: absolutly there are women that exploit in this industry too, but there you have hit the nail on the head,….exploit, it doesn’t matter what gender is doing it, it is still exploiting another human and we can all agree that that is wrong.
@Bee Johnson: You don’t do choice do you?, what business is it of yours what a lady wants to do?, you don’t agree with it fair enough. But let adults choose what to do with their lives its none of your business!
@Peter Hughes: I am 100% about choice but when a girl is brought up in a family where she is subjected to sexual abuse from a young age then her ability to make sound decisions with regards to sexual activity is somewhat hampered. When a woman is being injected with drugs to keep her hooked enough to stay because she cant feed her habit without it there is nothing to suggest she is there by choice, when a woman pays traffickers to bring her to a country where she thinks she will get a great job and lead a better life but is then told her fee has gone up and she must sell sex to repay the debt she does not have a chhoice. When a woman is told that if she doesn’t keep working her family will be in danger, she has no choice. If a sober and clear thinking woman makes this choice for herself and works independantly and has control of her own earnings and clients then I have no problem with it. I have no problem with the sex workers at all actually. I have a problem with people who manipulate and take advantage and rape and absue, those people exist in the wider society not just the sex industry.
@Bee Johnson: …and what would you do with the victims of childhood abuse whose “ability to make sound decisions with regards to sexual activity is somewhat hampered”?
Force them to live under supervision, like children?
Sex work is rarely, if ever, a decision “with regards to sexual activity” – it is almost always a decision about money, and often about survival. There is a little fact about life nobody knows until they have actually been there, survival can become impossible if you have no way of getting enough money to meet your needs and commitments…and there enough holes in the social safety net for that to still happen, and when it does you are fighting for your life.
That’s Ruhama of the Magdaline Laundry fame telling us what’s best for women
Whatever about the rights or wrongs of the sex industry,Ashley Judd is a complete loo la .
How about starting with tougher sentences for those violent men, there was a case recently 3 boys defiled a young girl with autism, their punishment? fully suspended sentences. Same judge is presiding over the Ana case.
Associations between sex work laws and sex workers’ health: A systematic review and meta-analysis of quantitative and qualitative studies
Conclusions
Together, the qualitative and quantitative evidence demonstrates the extensive harms associated with criminalisation of sex work, including laws and enforcement targeting the sale and purchase of sex, and activities relating to sex work organisation. There is an urgent need to reform sex-work-related laws and institutional practices so as to reduce harms and barriers to the realisation of health.
Lucy Platt, Pippa Grenfell, Rebecca Meiksin, Jocelyn Elmes, Susan G. Sherman, Teela Sanders, Peninah Mwangi, Anna-Louise Crago
PLOS Medicine, 2018; Read the full paper online
https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1002680#abstract2
Give her cash, it is prostitution. Give her cash and the dream life, it is romance.
Cash is used as collateral regardless of where it a relationship or prostitution. Sociologists say women are after resources. As in money.
The reason why they ban escorting is for economical reasons. They need men and women to get married and have two children.
theres no denying the devastation porn has had on society, more broken marriages, increase in rape and sexual assaults, increase in STI’s from people sleeping around.Men are now more sexually fuelled due to the easier of porn at a younger age.
call me conservative all you like, but society functioned much better when we held principles that sex is a special thing and not to be given away lightly. The whole porn industry has twisted our views.
Sad times
@Nick Cassidy: Try looking up the work of Professor Milton Diamond PhD of the University of Hawai’i.
He researched the effects of the availability of pornography in countries like American and Japan and found that it correleated with a *decrease* in sexual violence.
Also please note that the Netherlands teaches Relationship and Sex Education from primary school age, starting with the importance of Boundaries and Consent. In later years it teaches about how to understand that pornograpy is not a “How To” guide etc.
Meanwhile in America, they teach “Abstinence only” etc and preach a moralistic view of sex and sin which fails to give teenagers the knowledge they need about contraception, prevention of STIs and so on.
Guess which country has the lowest level of teenage pregnancies and STIs and which one has the highest…!
@AffordableLeather: we also teach sex education from primary school, yet there have been some horrendous cases recently of teenage boys raping a killing young girls in Ireland, there is a reason there is an age of conscent and ratings on movies etc, it is because exposure of this kind is damaging to a teenager or child.
@Bee Johnson: There have been, I am sure, horrendous cases like that all through history, but they don’t fit your narrative, do they?
It’s always easy to point to a convenient scapegoat, but it does rather involve ignoring any evidence that doesn’t suit your purposes.
@AffordableLeather: Listen I’m married to a child protection social worker and I can tell you first hand the damage that exposure to sexual activity does to a child which stays with them through adulthood, there are terms used called “sexualised behaviour” or has been “sexualised” when these terms are used there is extreme care about where these children are placed. They must not place a “sexualised” child with a non “sexualised” child for the simple reason that the “non Sexualised” child should not be exposed and have their life ruined further. Back when a few porn mags were considered to be a healthy way for a boy to learn about sex, was when the top shelf was relatively mild and it was on the top shelf for a reason because it was still not a healthy way for a boy to learn about sex. Children now a days have free exposure to extremely damaging porn, and of course it is damaging to society. 20 years ago cases of teenagers commiting horrendous acts like this were few and far between, remember Jamie Bulger, we all do because it was so rare for 13 year old boys to commit such acts.( I might add they were both exposed to violence and sex and porn) Now its not so unual. So ask yourself the question are you happy for your 13 year old son to learn about sex by watching graffic unregulated porn? are you happy for your son or daughter to be in these videos at any age? I would sincerely hope you answer no to all of the above.. Its very easy to say to a teenager not to use porn as a how to guide but that is really peddeling on the back foot because once they have seen it, it cannot be unseen, the potential damage is already done. When a child is exposed to this material and perhaps is growing up in a house with no boundaries or exposed to domestic viiolence then they are more likely to become perpreptrators themselves. My purpose is to protect my children from life damaging sexual exposure and allowing them to watch porn and say oh but its not a how to guide is not protecting them. Im raising 3 boys and they are all taught how to be respectful to themselves and other peoples bodies, I teach them about conscent from the age of 3 and I have open and honest conversations with my teenager. When he went to Amsterdam recently I asked him if he was going to go down the red light district because I wouldn’t blame him for being curious, he said no because he would not support an industry where women are disrespected and questioned how many of them are there through choice or circumstances. Surely this is the type of attitude young men should have, which would you rather your daughter date. The one that respects women or the one that jerks off to porn and wants your daughter to reinact what hes seen in his 15 year old underdeveloped brain.
@Bee Johnson:
Firstly I would want ALL children taught about relationships and sex and consent and boundaries *before* they need to deal with such situations (NB that includes respecting them and not forcing them to “give granny a kiss” if they don’t want to!)
Secondly they *will* encounter pornography, so they need to know that it’s not real and that it’s not “what girls want done to them”, again this needs to be taught before they get into those situations.
I am glad to read that you are bringing up your boys well, but not everyone is doing so and just saying that “exposure is damaging” without including the importance of teaching respect and consent etc doesn’t help the issue.
That just gives ammunition to those who think that Relationship and Sex Education is the cause of problems and that we should only teach a strictly moralistic view of Porn = Bad, Sex Outside Marriage = Bad etc which benefits nobody, especially not the children.
@AffordableLeather: But our sex education here does teach about conscent and in teens about contraception and stis and porn, we have an extremely good sex education system here but yet young people are growing up and getting into terrible situations. Why? Social media is one and exposure to inapropriate porn is another and there are of course numerous other reasons, but to be dismissive of the fact that children with their underdeveloped brain are not being damaged by the level of porn they are exposed to is sending the wrong message to those young people.
@Bee Johnson: From the Irish Times, just last week:
* * * * *
Sex education for most secondary school pupils is outdated and involves lessons on “abstinence” and “risks and dangers”, according to a major review commissioned by the Government.
Pupils in most cases say they receive little information about sexual consent, LGBT issues or the positive aspects of relationships.
[...]
While sex education was introduced to schools in 1995, sources say the draft report acknowledges that life has changed dramatically for young people and that the approach needs to be updated.
Many countries have since moved towards a “holistic” approach of sex education which addresses LGBT issues, gender identities and relationships in a positive and healthy way.
Students, however, say their experience of sex education is too often “fear-based” and focuses almost exclusively on the risks and dangers of sexual activity or biological aspects of reproduction.
* * * * *
There’s your problem.
@Bee Johnson:
You husband should not be discussing his work with you.
I have been dealing with a wide variety of child protection officers and social workers since 1972 and the sheer cluelessness of most of them, in theory, and practice, is absolutely terrifying.
That’s the biggest load of nonsense I’ve ever read. I’ve known women over the years who have worked through choice not coercion. Have not been drug addicts or alcoholics. Many transgender women did so to fund their treatment because the state doesn’t other than in one major area. The current law is not working as it is pushing prostitution further underground placing huge risks on women and also isolating those on the margins who are already marginalised. The current law needs changed.
@Louise Hannon Fotos: I’ve known loads of happily married women over the years so domestic abuse doesn’t exist.
What about all the evidence from porn viewers that aren’t violent??? What evidence you may well ask because the only people that get studied are the ones that get arrested for domestic violence. Oh you watched porn… oh and you watched it as a teenager? Bonus!!! That must mean that people that watch porn as teens all become violent criminals! It’s all a load of self serving rubbish! Perhaps the reason men want more and more violent things from prostitutes is that each time they ask, she give in and give it to them???
@Colm O’Leary: No porn back in old Ireland and rape was as common as eating dinner, all the religions nutjobs never try and explain this, it does not fit into their twisted religious controlling agenda that’s why….the neck of them trying to take the moral high ground after what they done to this country.
@Colm O’Leary: well you sound like a real catch, I hope you give her a decent tip next time your prostitute “gives in” to you.
@Peter Hughes: you have your own moral high ground too peter. You hate the church so much you will take any position that opposes it.
I’m not condoning the porn industry but saying men expect real sex to be like porn is a bit like expecting a big mac to look like the photo behind the counter. As much as you would like it to be the chances are 100 %against it
If Ruhama were truly concerned with the safety of sex workers it would not pursue policies such as adoption of the Nordic model, which demonstrably put sex workers at more risk of violence.
If Ruhama were truly concerned with the health, wellbeing and dignity of women, it would be insisting its founding religious orders properly compensated the inmates of the Magdalene Laundries, who worked as slaves for those nuns for years.
I was listening to a man called Kieran McGrath on the radio I think he has written a book about youngsters and porn and how it has affected them he is a counsellor and he believes it caused some to abuse, as the porn that’s available to people now a days is much darker and extrme compared to what people had available to them before.its about social media and the internet being so available to young people and how it can affect them long term
There are children as young as eight looking at porn on the internet and it’s a massive problem amount teenagers, it’s causing untold damage to families and our society with some acting out on siblings, friends and family members what they see, actually thinking that that behaviour is ok. Parents need to take back control of their kids, I’ve see toddlers as young as 2 staring and swiping at screens and screaming blue murder when the phone/iPad etc is taken from them, society is cracking at the seems. As for the sex trade, on both fronts in my opinion, for the woman and men it’s just wrong, yes they both have choices, they choose to engage in that life style, it ain’t going to be pleasant!!
Hmm, I think it’s an exaggeration to say that ALL women in engaged in sex industry are helpless victims. What about Stormy Daniels? Nobody forced her to pursue the life she wanted. Nobody forced her to have sex with Donald Trump, but she did! (allegedly). I’d say most are perfectly willing and I’m sure many have made plenty money, untaxed.
No mention from ruhama of the 50,000 women killed every year by their boyfriend/husband. or the one in four who suffer domestic abuse.
There is a bias against escorts, which relationships escape, despite the fact that they are more violent towards women.
@James Bishop: ruhama specifically deals with the issue of prostitution, why would they be talking about domestic abuse? Thats a different organisation.
Bull shite
Now this is my open letter to Ruhama.
I have never had any illusions about any of you, but just over a year ago you took your abuses to a whole deeper level that shocks even me.
You really believe that if you harm someone enough they will submit to you.
You really believe that if you terrify someone enough they will say whatever you want them to say.
You really believe that the only reason anyone would stand up to you is that you have not harmed and terrified them enough yet.
Do I have news for you.
You have done me a lot of damage over the past few years, but after the past 12 months your cold blooded deliberate actions have shattered my life and left me with a permenent knot of fear in my stomach.
You may make things up for effect, but I don’t, this is the toned down version of who I really am:
https://mymythbuster.wordpress.com/i-am-bethany/
The simplest, everyday things are ordeals for me and always have been, that is how I was made and how badly I was damaged since, long before I ever sold sex. Over the past few years I have broken down completely several times a year just on facing your gaslighting, your lies, your corruption and the staggering amount of influence you can wield, before we even start on the direct repercussions of telling the truth instead of playing along with your agenda or staying quiet. Those are not just words, that is a reality I have lived while you filled out expense forms and junketted all over the world.
I don’t get paid by George Soros, I don’t run an escort agency, I don’t have a book to sell and I will not accept a penny for activism. I just care about women like me who one day find themselves cornered, usually by a series of abysmal failure in the social safety net that nobody wants to face, remedy and make recompense for in any realistic way, into selling sex because all the other options ran out. They may be counters in a political board game to you, but to me they are human beings, my equals and every one of them is worth 10 of every one of you, if only because they would rather sell sex than sell harm and lies.
After what you did this time even I can’t believe I am still standing, and I do not mean as opposed to submitting to you, because all the fear and harm in the world will not change the truth by one jot, and the truth matters more to me than life itself, a misunderstanding that may lead to criminal charges one day and not for me.
In my opinion and experience you are beyond excuse and should be investigated and shut down before you can do any more harm to anyone else.
Gaye Dalton
This is so shockingly untruthful, where to even start?
“If women don’t enter prostitution as a result of addiction, often they end up misusing substances in order to cope with it. For a lot of them, it would be impossible to sell sex sober.”
FACT:
Until the 1993 law meant that street workers had to find a way to make a living AND hide from Gardai even women who were alcoholics generally sold sex sober. Two reasons:
1. You are more aware of what you are doing and protective of your own interests – not so much in terms of avoiding rape and murder as per Ruhamaworld, more in the simple, boring, everyday terms of making sure you got the money first and didn’t drop your keys in someone else’s car.
2. Clients are reluctant to pick up a sex worker who is pillotic – for much the same reasons most taxi drivers won’t carry passengers in that state.
Don’t just take my word for that:
February 6 1998:
Evening Herald 1891-current, Friday, February 06, 1998 https://archive.irishnewsarchive.com/Olive/APA/INA/sharedpages/SharedView.Page.aspx?sk=FB4D474A&href=EHD%2F1998%2F02%2F06&page=16
More:
“They don’t want to engage on any emotional level with the men, they don’t want to hug them and they don’t want to kiss them.”
Of course not – providing a sexual service is not a big deal, handing out pieces of your self and emotions certainly *IS*. It doesn’t mean you “despise” them, or think they are *vile* truth is, you probably don’t think about them at all, you are at work making a living, not serving humanity.
More:
“Almost all of the women I’ve worked with have suffered abuse in their early years.”
The oldest fiction in the book. Obviously Ruhama has recovered from the embarrassment of their own 1994 report that showed street sex workers only suffered sexual abuse in their early years at a hairsbreadth over the, much vaunted, general “one in four” but it’s complicated. A lot of the women who sell sex do so as a result of long, or even short term financial crisis. Think about it, where do most people go in a crisis?
To family…
Where does the adult survivor of childhood abuse go in a crisis?
?
But Ruhama never want to talk about the real economics of sex work which ARE the whole point for the majority of sex workers, however they feel about the work itself.
More:
“Poverty is a massive driver into prostitution and so is addiction.”
So far so good..but wait a minute…
“Often they end up in prostitution because someone they trusted – a boyfriend, a friend, a family member – has groomed or coerced them into it.”
So which is it?
Trust me, poverty doesn’t need anybody’s help to “groom and coerce” you into selling sex if you can cope with it.
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