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COUNTING IN THE general election began yesterday and continued today across the country until all 159 seats in the 33rd Dáil are filled.
We kept you up to date with all the latest news throughout the day.
Here’s a round-up of what you need to know:
Good morning, it’s Órla Ryan here again.
Thanks for staying with us over the weekend. We’ll keep you up to date with all the latest election news today.
First up, here is complete list of all the TDs elected so far.
Counting is complete in 13 of 39 constituencies and the remaining 26 courts will resume this morning.
The story of the election so far has been the Sinn Féin surge – the party has won the highest percentage of first preference votes and has secured 29 seats to date.
To get you fully up to speed, here are the key points of the election to date.
One of Sinn Féin’s biggest coups has come in Leo Varadkar’s own constituency Dublin West, where Paul Donnelly was elected at the first count.
To get a grip on how significant that result is: no outgoing Taoiseach has ever failed to top the poll in their home constituency the next time out. Added to that, the last time a Taoiseach failed to get his running mate elected was in 1989.
We’re not at the finish line just yet but some of the focus has turned to seat projections and possible government formations.
Could there be a coalition between two of the three biggest parties, most likely backed by independents and/or smaller parties, or a Sinn Féin-led government, for example?
Here we take a look at the coalition options for the next government, and where party leaders stand on the issue.
A number of sitting TDs and ministers have lost their seats including Fine Gael’s Regina Doherty, Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection; Fine Gael’s Mary Mitchell O’Connor, Minister of State for Higher Education; and independent Shane Ross, Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport.
Other high-profile names who lost their seats include Ruth Coppinger of Solidarity-People Before Profit; Labour’s Joan Burton, a former Tánaiste; and Fianna Fáil’s Lisa Chambers.
My colleagues recorded a special episode of The Explainer podcast overnight, detailing what has happened in the count so far.
The Explainer / SoundCloud
Another casualty of the election is the Independent Alliance – the collection of independent TDs who propped up the Fine Gael government after the 2016 election.
Out of six candidates elected four years ago, none remain part of the alliance today – after two members left midway through the Dáil term.
The alliance, which took the decision to enter into government, has ended through a combination of retirements and losses on election night.
Shane Ross, sports minister and the most high-profile member of the alliance, suffered an early defeat in Dublin Rathdown, while in Longford-Westmeath Kevin ‘Boxer’ Moran also seems to have lost out.
Ahead of the election, ministers Finian McGrath and John Halligan announced that they wouldn’t be contesting the vote – decisions that considerably diminished the power of the alliance even before a single vote had been cast.
My colleague Dominic McGrath has taken a look at the rise and fall of the alliance.
Roisin Shortall, co-leader of the Social Democrats, has been elected in Dublin North West on the fourth count with 8,148 votes.
Éamon Ó Cuív (Fianan Fáil), Mairéad Farrell (Sinn Féin) and Noel Grealish (independent) have been elected on the eighth count in Galway West.
Labour leader Brendan Howlin has been re-elected in the Wexford constituency on the eighth count with 12,930 votes.
More from my colleague Céimin Burke in Galway West:
In a development that may help cross-party relations, a couple who ran for election in the same constituency for different parties have both been elected in a dramatic final count.
Holly Cairns, who ran for the Social Democrats, and Christopher O’Sullivan, who ran for Fianna Fáil, took the second and third seats in three-seater Cork South West in the early hours of this morning.
As speculation about possible future coalitions mount, Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald has already made contact with a number of smaller political parties.
Speaking on Morning Ireland, McDonald reiterated that her preference is for a government without Fianan Fáil or Fine Gael.
However, she said she will speak to every party and independents about government formation.
McDonald said Sinn Féin has already been in touch with the Green Party, the Social Democrats and Solidarity-People Before Profit, and will also talk to independents and Labour, “everybody outside the old two”, to establish “whether or not there are the numbers to deliver a government without Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael”.
McDonald added: “Of course I’ll talk to Micheál Martin and Leo Varadkar and I think the democratic thing is for them to speak to me too. I’ll speak to everyone because that’s what grown-up people do.”
She said she expects Sinn Féin to get more than 30 seats and said, in hindsight, the party should have run more candidates.
“Hindsight is a great thing, of course we should have fielded more candidates (had we know how well we would do). Certainly if I were a political clairvoyant, of course we would have run more candidates.”
Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin yesterday appeared to somewhat soften his stance on going into government with Sinn Féin, having repeatedly ruled out such an option during the campaign.
Martin yesterday said there are “significant issues to be resolved” but refused to rule out a coalition with Sinn Féin.
“We’ll assess it when the full count is in and the full number of seats are in. I’m a democrat. I listen to the people, I respect the decision of the people,” he told RTÉ.
However, outgoing Taoiseach Leo Varadkar appears less open to talks with Sinn Féin. Speaking at the RDS count centre yesterday he said Fine Gael will not change its mind about not wanting to form a coalition with Sinn Féin.
Varadkar said he had made his party’s position “very clear” during the campaign and that Fine Gael had won votes on that basis. “My position hasn’t changed,” he added.
Is Leo Varadkar’s role as leader of Fine Gael at risk given the party’s drop in support?
Paudie Coffey, Fine Gael Senator and former TD, has called on Varadkar to reflect on his position, telling Waterford’s WLRFM: “Fine Gael, I think took their eye off the ball … and the people have sent a strong message.”
More bad news for Fine Gael, Minister of State Pat Breen has lost his seat in Clare.
The results are coming in thick and fast now, here is the latest list of elected TDs.
Sinn Féin’s Chris Andrews has been elected in Dublin Bay South on the eighth count, with Fine Gael’s Eoghan Murphy (the outgoing Housing Minister) and Fianna Fáil’s Jim O’Callaghan being elected without reaching the quota.
Fine Gael’s Kate O’Connell has failed to retain her seat.
I’m handing over the liveblog to my colleague Conor McCrave now, thanks for staying with us so far today.
Fine Gael’s John Paul Phelan and Fianna Fáil’s Jennifer Murnane O’Connor have both been elected to the Carlow-Kilkenny constituency on the eighth count.
There is one more seat to fill in the five-seater – Sinn Féin’s Kathleen Funchion and Fianna Fáil’s John McGuinness have already secured two seats.
Fianna Fáil’s Justice Spokesperson Jim O’Callaghan describes a “volatile electorate” moments after he is re-elected in the Dublin Bay South constituency.
A Downing Street spokesperson has weighed in following the surge in support for Sinn Féin, insisting that the UK’s “close” relationship with Ireland would continue.
“We are of course following the results of the Irish election carefully,” the Prime Minister’s official spokesman said.
“The UK and Ireland are close neighbours and friends and we look forward to continuing to work together.”
The spokesman added: “The close relationship between the UK and Ireland will continue regardless of the election result.”
Sinn Fein’s Pauline Tully takes the third seat in Cavan-Monaghan.
Matt Carthy (SF) and Heather Humphreys (FG) were both elected on the first count yesterday after both exceeded the 12,031 quota based on first preference votes.
The counts are coming in thick and fast from across the country but as it stands, Sinn Féin has secured 33 seats, outdoing its last general election results, and ahead of Fianna Fáil’s 19 seats.
Fine Gael sits on 17 seats at the moment, and others including the Green Party and Social Democrats have also increased their seats compared to the last Dáil.
Labour Leader Brendan Howlin yesterday said he did not want to be in government without a sizeable number of Labour TDs and said he had not heard from Mary Lou McDonald.
Today, since he was re-elected, he says McDonald has been trying to contact him and that he missed the call.
Independent Christy Burke is attempting to make it to the Dáil for a 10th time this year and it looks set to be tight as the results of Dublin Central are emerging.
People Before Profit TD Gino Kenny had yesterday considered himself out of the running to be re-elected.
But the race is hotting up and transfers could be crucial to keeping him in the running to take the fourth seat if he can leapfrog Fianna Fáil’s John Curran on the next count.
With Fianna Fáil’s Mary Fitzpatrick eliminated in Dublin Central, all eyes will turn to her transfers.
Independent Christy Burke and Social Democrat Gary Gannon will both be hoping for her transfer votes to clinch the fourth seat in the constituency.
The Green’s Neasa Hourigan and outgoing finance minister Paschal Donohoe are almost certain to join the already elected Mary Lou McDonald to complete the four-seater lineup.
Clare has yet to elect any TDs to the four seats which are up for grabs.
The Green Party’s Roisín Garvey has just been eliminated and her 7,339 votes will now be distributed among the remaining five candidates.
People Before Profit’s Gino Kenny, who had conceded defeat early yesterday, has just been elected to Dublin Mid West on the ninth count.
Outgoing minister of state Michael D’Arcy has been eliminated in Wexford, while fellow outgoing minister of state Paul Kehoe is trailing last of the candidates in that constituency.
Kehoe is likely to take much of D’Arcy’s transfers though, which should push him ahead of Fianna Fáil’s Malcolm Byrne.
James Browne of Fianna Fáil and independent Verona Murphy both look set to secure a seat.
Holy medals and hole-y shoes – Fianna Fáil’s Cathal Crowe has his own traditions on election count days as he looks safe for a seat in Clare, where a candidate has yet to be elected.
I’m going to hand you back to my colleague Órla Ryan who will keep you in the loop as the rest of the afternoon unfolds. Thanks for following the election results with TheJournal.ie.
Thanks Conor.
An update from Tipperary is just in – on the eighth count, independent Mattie McGrath and Sinn Féin’s Martin Browne have joined Michael Lowry (who topped the poll and was elected on the first count yesterday).
Meanwhile Sinn Féin’s Réada Cronin, Fine Gael’s Bernard Durkan and Fianna Fáil’s James Lawless have taken the final three seats in Kildare North.
Sinn Féin’s Claire Kerrane has taken the final seat in Roscommon-Galway.
Fine Gael candidate and former minister James Reilly has been eliminated in Dublin Fingal.
A full list of elected TDs can be read here.
After securing the fourth and final seat in Dublin Mid West, PBP TD Gino Kenny said: “It’s a great feeling and I dedicate this to all my comrades in the party and the people who have been campaigning for medical cannabis over the last three and a half years.”
Kenny had all but conceded defeat yesterday.
Gotta love the drama of PR-STV all the same.
Life comes at you fast.
In other news…
Verona Murphy, was ran as an independent candidate after being dropped by Fine Gael over controversial comments about Direct Provision and immigrants, has been elected in Wexford.
Bad news for Fine Gael Senator Catherine Noone who has been eliminated in Dublin Bay North.
Noone’s campaign was dealt a serious blow after she said Leo Varadkar was “autistic”, “on the spectrum” and that he “doesn’t know what to do with himself” in social situations.
She later apologised and withdrew the remarks.
Speaking to Channel 4 at the RDS, outgoing Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe said:
“There is nothing inevitable about what the nature of the next government will be…
“My own party, Fine Gael, wants to be in and wants to lead the next government and we have yet to see how many seats we are going to have and what will be the seat difference between ourselves and Fianna Fáil.”
We’ve a breakdown of potential coalition options for the next government here.
Speaking about his own campaign in Dublin Central, Donohoe said: “You judge any personal campaign by whether you get elected or not and I think I’ll see the answer to that in the next few hours.”
Counting has been completed in Dublin Central where there was a serious battle for the fourth and final seat.
The Green Party’s Neasa Hourigan, Fine Gael’s Paschal Donohoe (the outgoing Finance Minister), and the Social Democrats’ Gary Gannon have now been elected.
At times fewer than 300 votes separated the candidates in line for the final seat – Gannon, former lord mayor Christy Burke, and Fianna Fáil’s Mary Fitzpatrick.
It was Burke’s 10th attempt at winning a Dáil seat.
Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald easily topped the poll in the constituency on the first count yesterday.
Earlier, Gannon told us he was ”cautiously optimistic”.
Meanwhile Labour’s Alan Kelly and Fianna Fáil’s Jackie Cahill have taken the final two seats in Tipperary.
Fianna Fáil’s Pádraig O’Sullivan has taken the second seat in Cork North Central.
A full list of elected TDs can be read here.
It appears as though there is more disquiet about Leo Varadkar’s position in Fine Gael.
Fine Gael’s Richard Bruton (the outgoing Minister of Communications, Climate Action & Environment) has been elected in Dublin Bay North.
The agony and the ecstasy.
The latest from Carlow-Kilkenny and Dublin South Central.
The latest from my colleague Bethany Langham at the RDS where Patrick Costello (Green Party) has been elected and Paul McAuliffe (Fianna Fáil) looks set to be.
Former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern said a border poll appeared “inevitable” within the next decade following Sinn Féin’s electoral success.
The former Fianna Fáil leader said: “I think a border poll is inevitable. If you ask me when that is, I think it’s probably five years off at least.
“I think the Sinn Féin position is it should be held within five years. So let’s say we are talking about it being five years off, I do not think you are going to get the circumstances where it would become a condition of government that it has to be held in the short term.
“But it will be inevitable over this decade.”
On BBC Radio 4’s World at One he warned against rushing towards a poll on reunification before extensive preparatory work had been completed.
“It can only be done when the preparation is done, when the case is made, when it has been well explained, when people know the outcome,” he said. “To try and push it or rush it, which some people will probably try to do, would be a grave mistake.”
Meanwhile Northern Ireland Deputy First Minister Michelle O’Neill has said it was a “good day” for Sinn Féin.
Speaking at Stormont, O’Neill commented: “Today is a good day on the back of what is a game-changer election for Sinn Féin in the 26 counties.
“The people have spoken in large numbers, they have thrown their support behind Sinn Féin. I think that our message of change has very much resonated with the voters.
“They were tired of the status quo, they were tired of the establishment parties and their arrogance, they were tired of the fact they have been failed on the housing and health front.
“We’re very grateful for all those people who came out and voted in such large numbers for the Sinn Féin team.
“We now are involved in the next stage of that which is wait until the votes are all counted towards the end of today but Mary-Lou [McDonald] has already reached out to the other smaller parties who also had a message of change to look about how we can form a government that actually reflects on the needs of citizens.
“We’ll be very true to the mandate which we sought from the people.”
Asked how far up the agenda will preparation for a united Ireland be, O’Neill said: “We said we want to negotiate a programme for government that delivers on what we said to the electorate throughout this election campaign.
“We have provided solutions in terms of the health crisis and the housing crisis so we will want to work with others to establish a programme for government that reflects how we can deliver upon those promises.
“But obviously we are Irish republicans, there is no secret of that, and clearly we will have asks in terms of the republican project, clearly we will have asks in terms of the kind of society we want to build.
“But obviously at the end of the day we have said there should be unity referendum within five years so that’s the position we will take into negotiations.”
When asked if she believes Ireland has moved closer to unification, she said: “Yes, I absolutely do. We have said things are going in this direction for some time, I think for a number of reasons not least the fact that the unionist majority, the very basis on which this northern state was founded, is gone and has been gone over the last number of elections.
“But I think this is a seismic election shift in the 26 counties, Sinn Féin are the largest party in the 26 counties, I think that is significant in itself.”
Turns out Paschal Donohoe is a big Arnie fan. Who knew.
It’s been an emotional day for a lot of people.
Speaking to reporters at the RDS, including our political correspondent Christina Finn, Paschal Donohoe has once again ruled out Fine Gael going into coalition with Sinn Féin.
Donohoe has also backed Taoiseach Leo Varadkar to remain as leader of Fine Gael following the party’s poor performance in the general election.
Speaking after being elected in Dublin Central, Donohoe expressed full confidence in Varadkar.
He said: “I absolutely support Leo Varadkar in his continued leadership of Fine Gael. The issues we have to reflect on as a party, how we respond back to the message that the people of Ireland have sent to us, will be best led if it is led by Leo.”
“We are a party of the centre and the party that has looked to bring economic and social change to our country but we recognise, and we did so in the campaign, that for many people, that change was not enough.
“We have become associated with the status quo. We will change that and we will change that under the leadership of Leo Varadkar.”
His comments come after others in the party said Varadkar should reflect on his position.
Four TDs have been elected in Clare: independent Michael McNamara, Sinn Féin’s Violet-Anne Wynne, Fianna Fáil’s Cathal Crowe and Fine Gael’s Joe Carey.
Timmy Dooley (FF) has lost his seat there.
Crowe, the Mayor of Clare, who was among the first people to boycott the since-cancelled controversial Royal Irish Constabulary commemoration service.
Meanwhile Fianna Fail’s Barry Cowen has been elected in Laois-Offaly on the eighth count.
Mary Lou McDonald has said she “may well be the next Taoiseach”.
In an impromptu walkabout around Dublin’s Moore Street, the Sinn Fein president was asked whether she will be the next leader of Ireland.
“I may well be the next Taoiseach, yes,” she said.
I’m going to hand the liveblog over to my colleague Sean Murray now. Thanks for staying with me so far.
Before I go, here’s a reminder that a full list of elected TDs can be read here.
Thanks Órla.
And in that vein, here’s how the national picture is currently looking. Sinn Féin won’t be winning any more seats, but are sitting pretty on their highest ever result – 37.
Stephen McDermott has put together this list of the 10 candidates who secured the most first-preference votes in this year’s election.
Nine of them are in Sinn Féin. A gold star to whoever guesses who the other one is.
We’ve a final result from Dublin North West.
Fianna Fáil’s Paul McAuliffe – who’s currently the Dublin Lord Mayor – has won the last seat ahead of Solidarity-PBP’s Conor Reddy.
Here’s what Fianna Fáil’s Paul McAuliffe has had to say after being elected in Dublin North West.
He says putting a government together is the responsibility of “every party” and that they all need to work together to make it a reality.
Another example of Fianna Fáil being willing to enter into government with Sinn Féin?
After being elected for Fianna Fáil in Dublin North-West, Lord Mayor Paul McAuliffe says that putting a government together is the responsibility of "every party" and that they all need to work together to make it a reality. #GE2020 #FiannaFail pic.twitter.com/tqZunltn8O
— Bethany Langham (@bethanyklangham) February 10, 2020
There are some very tight constituencies with seats still up for grabs.
Minister for Education Joe McHugh could be in trouble in Donegal.
Independent Thomas Pringle has proven very transfer friendly and looks good for a seat.
They’re onto the eighth count there now, with three seats left after Sinn Féin won the first two.
Speaking of tight races, try picking who’ll lose out in Louth as four into three just won’t go.
Will Labour’s Ged Nash benefit the most from Green Party transfers?
An update from Kildare South.
Fine Gael’s Martin Heydon and independent Cathal Berry have taken the final seats.
Fianna Fáil’s Fiona O’Loughlin lost out on the eighth and final count.
Ah this is nice.
Labour’s Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, who looks set to take a seat in Dublin Bay North, welcoming his mam and dad to the count centre in the RDS.
All to play for there, still, as they enter the 12th count.
Back to Donegal now.
Independent Thomas Pringle has been telling RTÉ that he’d be willing to work with Sinn Fein for a left-led government.
Results of the latest count in Kerry.
Fine Gael’s Brendan Griffin has exceeded the quota and he’s in.
So is independent Danny Healy Rae and he’ll join his brother Micheal in the 33rd Dáil.
“Olé, olé” is the chant from the Healy-Rae supporters.
One more seat left for grabs in Kerry.
Fine Gael’s Alan Farrell has won a seat in Dublin Fingal after the 11th count.
The final count is in from Louth. This was one of the most fiercely contested constituencies.
No one meets the quota but three of them have been elected – Ged Nash (Labour), Fergus O’Dowd (Fine Gael) and Peter Fitzpatrick (independent).
Declan Breathnach (Fianna Fáil) has lost out at the last.
The latest result comes from Cork North Central.
Fine Gael’s Colm Burke and Solidarity-People Before Profit’s Mick Barry have taken the last two seats.
As expected, government chief whip Seán Kyne has lost his seat.
His party colleague Hildegarde Naughton has taken the last seat in Galway West.
Here’s confirmation of the make-up of Cork North Central and Louth.
Fianna Fáil’s Brendan Smith is on course to take a seat for Fianna Fáil in Cavan-Monaghan alongside Niamh Smyth.
He tells RTÉ News it wasn’t a mistake to run three candidates in the constituency.
“I don’t know how right the strategy was when we were looking for one seat to run two candidates,” he says.
“People in the media – the national narrative in 2011 was that Fianna Fáil wouldn’t survive… I was sincerely hoping we would come back in this election in the early 50s (seats).”
He says party leader Micheál Martin doesn’t need to consider his position.
Yes or no, should FF go into government with Sinn Féin? “No,” Smith says.
It’s very much endgame now – albeit a long evening ahead in some count centres.
133 of the 160 seats have been filled.
We’ve more on those comments from Mary Lou on the possibility of becoming the next Taoiseach here.
She said: “We have commenced discussions and contact with the leaders of the Green Party, Social Democrats, People Before Profit, the Labour Party.
“I hope we will meet over the coming days to explore in real terms whether we have the numbers and whether the political will exists to deliver that new government that is clearly demanded.
“We are absolutely clear we won’t do another five years in the same way as the last four years panned out.”
Danny Healy-Rae is talking about smelling blood on RTÉ News now.
He says Fianna Fáil might have thought they smelt his blood but it wasn’t his blood.
He retained his seat on the sixth count.
On his controversial “planet” comments, he says what he said came out wrong.
He says attacks from the media on him attack the people he represents.
We’ve a count coming in Dublin South West.
There’s only one seat filled here.
And Paul Murphy has exceeded the quota and has been elected. He benefited hugely from Sinn Féin transfers.
There are still three seats left there. Children’s Minister Katherine Zappone is down but not out… yet.
Are we nearing endgame in Dublin Bay North?
Nicky Ryan stepping in for my colleague Sean, who’s running off to cover a breaking story.
Here’s a look at how things stand right now:
37 seats are going to Sinn Féin, followed by 29 for Fine Gael and 28 for Fianna Fáil – the rest are spread out amongst other parties, with 26 left to be filled.
We’ve heard a lot of celebratory songs this election, but I think we can call agree that the best singing is coming out of the Kerry count centre.
James Reilly was a significant voice in the previous Fine Gael-Labour coalition government, but after losing his Dáil seat in 2016 and failing twice more to get it back, he’s retiring from politics.
He told RTÉ News:
My current reflection is, after 13 years in public life, I owe my wife a debt of gratitude, and I promised I wouldn’t spend more than 10 years, so I’m going back to look after my family and practice [medicine].
Lads, we’re on count 11 in Wicklow, and still only one candidate has been elected. It looks like Jennifer Whitmore will take another seat for the Social Democrats after the next count.
Or maybe the one after that?
Or maybe this count will just continue for all eternity?
Pat Casey has been eliminated, another hit for Fianna Fáil.
Mary Lou and Brendan are wasting no time.
As it stands, the Labour party would form a very minor part of any further government – they have just four seats, although could pick up another few if things go their way in the coming hours. Remember, they won 37 seats last time they were in coalition in 2011.
Still, all voices will be crucial if Sinn Féin want to get an confidence and supply agreement up and running. Here’s a quick reminder of what that is.
Noel Rock is undergoing a quick rebrand after losing his seat.
We have another elimination in Dublin South-West, this time it’s Fianna Fáil’s Charlie O’Connor.
Independent TD Katherine Zappone is still more than 1,000 votes behind Fianna Fáil’s John Lahart, who is currently in line to take the final seat.
Will the next few transfers be enough to save her?
Here’s what Sean ran away from this liveblog to suss out:
“They didn’t break the hunger strikers, they didn’t break Bobby Sands and Kevin Lynch, they’ll never break us, they’ll never break Sinn Féin,” he says. Kevin Lynch died in the Maze Prison in 1981 and had run for election in the Waterford constituency.
He concludes: “What we say is, up the Republic, up the Ra, and tiocfaidh ár lá.”
Speaking to Matt Cooper on The Last Word on Today FM this evening, Cullinane said that he “never distanced himself at all from the IRA, or from Bobby Sands, and the people who died on hunger strike, or for those were involved in the armed struggle.
I’m never one who will distance myself from Sinn Féin’s past, or the IRA’s past. I don’t agree with everything the IRA did. Of course I don’t. Do I think Martin McGuinness was wrong to join the IRA? No I don’t… the bottom line is that the IRA is gone, it doesn’t mean we don’t celebrate or commemorate those volunteers.
Sean Murray back here to take the liveblog back from Nicky’s eminently capable hands.
Mary Lou McDonald was just on the RTÉ Six One News, and was asked about David Cullinane’s “up the Ra” video.
She said she hadn’t seen the video and this was the first she’d heard of it.
“He has to explain it,” she added.
In other news, Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan has won a seat in Laois-Offaly for Fine Gael.
Green Party’s Pippa Hackett would need an awful lot of transfers to secure a seat.
All the seats in Kerry are now filled.
Fianna Fáil’s Norma Foley has won the last seat ahead of party colleague John Brassil who had been seeking re-election.
While Saoirse McHugh didn’t make it for the Green Party in Mayo, she does has a very lovely dog.
Fianna Fáil’s Michael McGrath is speaking now on the RTÉ Six One News.
He says his party acknowledges Sinn Féin won the popular vote.
“The reality is it is a very changed landscape in the Dáil,” he says. “The onus is on Sinn Féin to build that.”
McGrath says he doubts Mary Lou McDonald will have the numbers to form a stable government with the smaller parties and independents.
He says Fianna Fáil has “never shirked its responsibility” but “paid the price for that” through the confidence and supply agreement.
He’s asked who the Taoiseach will be in the 33rd Dáil. “That remains to be seen,” McGrath says.
The Social Democrats have had a smart election, targeting specific seats and are on course to win six of them.
Bethany Langham spoke to Cian O’Callaghan who’s in the mix to win a seat in Dublin Bay North for the party.
He says the Social Democrat message resonated with people.
Mary Lou McDonald is due to address reporters in the next few minutes.
I’m sure she’ll have seen the video of Cullinane by now.
Our reporter Conor McCrave is reporting from the scene, and will bring us updates.
Donegal’s constituency has finished the final count.
It’s Fianna Fáil’s Pat the Cope Gallagher who loses out. He had first won a seat in the county in 1981.
Independent Thomas Pringle, Fine Gael’s Joe McHugh and Fianna Fáil’s Charlie McConalogue have completed the five-seater line-up.
With the loss of Pat the Cope Gallagher, it’s turning out to be a really bad day for Fianna Fáil.
Outgoing TDs like Timmy Dooley, John Curran and Declan Breathnach are among those who’ve lost out today.
Chip van operators will be hoping for a second election sometime in the near future.
There are three constituencies where we still only have one TD – they are Longford-Westmeath, Sligo-Leitrim and Wicklow.
Yesterday, Kevin Boxer Moran said he’d been “let down” by voters when it looked like he’d lose his seat.
He’s right in the mix now, with three seats left.
In Dublin South West, Fine Gael’s Colm Brophy has won a seat.
Katherine Zappone is still clinging on, but could be eliminated in this next count.
Duncan Smith, meanwhile, has taken the final seat for Labour in Dublin Fingal.
Labour got battered in the 2016 general election. And it’s failed to make strides in this election to win back the electorate.
After another disappointing day at the polls, Conor McCrave takes a look here at if there’s a future for the Labour party.
Mary Lou McDonald has been speaking to reporters.
She says Sinn Féin TDs will meet tomorrow or Wednesday and begin discussing its plans for government negotiations.
She reiterates her preference for not having Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil in government, but indicates she’s willing to talk to anybody.
On David Cullinane’s comments, she says that his “Up the Ra” comments were part of a “broader longer speech”.
On whether she’ll be Taoiseach, she says she’s already “Taoiseach of Cabra” and that’s a start.
David Cullinane was there too.
He said yesterday was an “emotional” day. He says the 30-second clip was part of a “longer, broader” speech. He says the comments weren’t about the “here and now” but the past.
“The IRA is gone as everybody knows, and I celebrate that the same as anyone else,” he says.
And we have a full set of TDs in Laois-Offaly.
Former Sinn Féin TD – and now independent – Carol Nolan has been elected on the 11th count, along with Fianna Fáil’s Seán Fleming.
Back to Mary Lou McDonald, she’s said that comments such as those made by Cullinane “can serve as a distraction”.
She said “I’m not their mammy” and she doesn’t censor her TDs. But she expects them not to create “distractions”.
The last seats in Dublin Bay North are expected to be filled very, very soon.
Dublin Bay North is done.
Cian O’Callaghan (Soc Dems), Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Lab) and Seán Haughey (Fianna Fáil) have claimed the seats.
That’s almost every seat in Dublin now filled.
There are still two more to go in Dublin South West. Fianna Fáil’s John Lahart and the Green Party’s Francis Duffy look in the driving seat to get in ahead of Katherine Zappone.
Here’s another look at the national picture now with only a few seats left.
Sinn Féin still in the lead in terms of seats but Fianna Fáil should eclipse them before the counting is over.
If you’ve not checked it out already, our election centre has all the info you need to know.
Interesting here from Labour’s Aodhán Ó Ríordáin.
He doesn’t think Labour have a mandate to enter government.
@AodhanORiordain says Labour does not have a mandate to enter government in his view pic.twitter.com/0cTb4kzNdn
— Christina Finn (@christinafinn8) February 10, 2020
Fianna Fáil’s Seán Haughey, meanwhile, is opening the door for his party to get into government formation talks with Sinn Féin.
Sean Haughey has opened the door to talks with Sinn Fein #GE2020 pic.twitter.com/7g1aDkLB3V
— Christina Finn (@christinafinn8) February 10, 2020
In Wicklow, we’ve finished the 13th count now.
Jennifer Whitmore is just 12 votes off the quota for the Social Democrats.
Joe Behan’s votes are now going to be distributed.
Almost there now with Fine Gael’s Andrew Doyle and Green Steven Matthews locked in an almighty tussle for the last seat.
And Kevin Boxer Moran – who was in contention right to the last – has failed to keep his seat.
Fianna Fáil takes two seats in Longford-Westmeath with Joe Flaherty and Robert Troy while Fine Gael’s Peter Burke also gets in.
It’s all over in Dublin South West.
And Minister Katherine Zappone has lost her seat.
Fianna Fáil’s John Lahart takes a seat.
And, joining his wife Catherine Martin in the 33rd Dáil, is Green Francis Duffy.
The last few TDs coming in now.
They should be finished in Sligo-Leitrim tonight.
Independent Marian Harkin has just passed the quota.
Eight. Seats. Left.
Will we get them all tonight? I’ve my doubts over one.
Prove me wrong, Cavan-Monaghan. Prove me wrong.
Labour’s Jan O’Sullivan – who lost her seat – has just tweeted this message, tagging other women who’ve lost their seat at this election:
“We have achieved a lot for women’s rights and shaping a more inclusive and tolerant Ireland but sad that many brave women I have worked with cross party on these issues have lost seats.”
Katherine Zappone has been saying she now plans to bow out of Irish politics after losing her seat in Dublin South West.
“I always felt I was a bit of an accidental politician,” she says.
Fianna Fáil’s Robert Troy is speaking to Claire Byrne on RTÉ now.
He’s commiserating with his colleagues who failed to be elected.
“Quite clearly, our message did not resonate with the public,” he says. “We were punished for facilitating that government for the length of time that we did.”
The Fianna Fáil recriminations over confidence and supply goes on.
He says Mary Lou McDonald should be allowed to go and see if she has enough support from left parties to form a government.
We have a 14th count from Wicklow.
Jennifer Whitmore has exceeded the quota and takes a seat for the Soc Dems.
Simon Harris (FG), Stephen Donnelly (FF) and Steven Matthews (Green) look good to take the rest of the seats. Andrew Doyle (FG) looks like missing out.
Whitmore’s surplus will now be distributed, but that shouldn’t take long.
Jennifer Whitmore is talking to Claire Byrne now.
She said the “long wait has been worth it”.
The Social Democrats have had a great election, from two to six seats.
One big feature of this election was how Sinn Féin’s huge surpluses were distributed.
The main beneficiaries were Solidarity-People Before Profit candidates.
I’ve had a look at this in more detail here.
We are so very close to being finished, with just seven seats left.
It shouldn’t be too much longer before a final vote in Wicklow, and fingers crossed, Sligo-Leitrim as well.
The Social Democrats are enjoying themselves anyway, according to TheJournal.ie columnist Lise Hand.
Interesting take here from Fianna Fáil’s Malcolm Byrne, who failed to hold on to the seat in Wexford he won in a by-election in November.
He says he respects the mandate given to Sinn Féin and that they should seek a government.
“Fianna Fáil must accept that we will form a centrist opposition,” he says.
There’s clearly a difference of opinion emerging within Fianna Fáil over what way it should go next.
Two more candidates elected in Sligo-Leitrim on the 15th count, and that’s that for that constituency.
Three of them were slugging it out for the two seats.
Fianna Fáil’s Marc MacSharry retains his seat, while Frank Feighan benefits from transfers to win a seat for Fine Gael.
Fianna Fáil’s Eamon Scanlon has just missed out.
And we’ve a full result in Wicklow, and here’s who’s got in:
Fine Gael’s Andrew Doyle has lost his seat.
And that’s 158 of the 160 seats filled.
Over to you, Cavan-Monaghan.
We’re down to the bitter end in Cavan-Monaghan.
Robbie Gallagher’s been eliminated and his votes will be redistributed.
Seems a formality now for Smith and Smyth to be elected.
We’ll be here with you until we have all 160 seats filled.
Will they finish the count in Cavan-Monaghan by midnight?
In other news, Mary Lou McDonald has been speaking to BBC’s Newsnight.
Here, she says what a Sinn Féin government would ask of the EU.
"The European Union needs to take a stand in respect of Ireland in the same way that it supported the reunification of Germany."
— BBC Newsnight (@BBCNewsnight) February 10, 2020
Sinn Féin President @MaryLouMcDonald tells Policy Editor @lewis_goodall what a Sinn Féin government would ask of the EU.#Newsnight pic.twitter.com/pUCYXdRuXz
The Green Party are keeping it in the family in south Dublin.
After Catherine Martin won a seat in Dublin Rathdown yesterday, her husband Francis Duffy won a seat today in Dublin South West.
They were there with their family to celebrate earlier today.
I, for one, am here for all the memes on Twitter urging Cavan-Monaghan to get a move on.
Must still be nervy for the candidates though. Fianna Fáil look good for the last two seats.
The RTÉ Twitter account is teasing us and all now.
And here we go, the result from Cavan-Monaghan is in. The final result in the country!
Brendan Smith and Niamh Smyth elected.
Two sitting FF TDs re-elected.
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Prohibition has failed and will fail. Legislators have created the unregulated cannabis industry by criminalising it. Legalise cannabis for recreational use, and regulate the potency, and eliminate chemical additives.
@Vic Murphy: and cocaine and heroin and whatever people will inject themselves with .. go go go ..
@Vic Murphy: 100% agree. These lads are dead right though as well. There is so much misinformation about perceived benefits of cannabis, CBD and THC. To go back to your point, the answer is to regulate safely while any potential benefits continue to be investigated.
@John Kelly: Big jump there Vic calm down. Have a smoke of a jeremy
@Vic Murphy: totally agree.
No one is sensible saying cannabis is totally harmless. It is relatively harmless in comparison to alcohol and many other activities that we consider normal.
These doctors are calling for more reaearch and that is a good thing. There are many doctors who would call for alcohol to be banned, despite the fact that would cause more harm than good, i wouldnt be surprised if these ten are in that group.
@John Kelly: I think we need to be really clear about two issues. First: what is deemed to be medical cannabis, and what is deemed to be recreational. The cannabis available illegally I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole. Provision of medical cannabis allows for safe prescription of a regulated substance grown for medical use.
Decriminalising is another issue, and at the centre of it is harm reduction, which is what people tend to forget. In Portugal the use of hard drugs has certainly decreased. Cannabis, no.
But what we have in Ireland right now doesn’t work – a drugs problem, and a medical access problem. Anything else must be better than this.
So 20 doctors in Ireland know more then the whole country of Canada which has fully legalized and most states in America and Spain has decriminalised. New Zealand is on its way but sure let 20 doctors dictate!.as far as I’m concerned alcohol cause’s mental disorders and psychosis and causes thousands of deaths each year so what’s there point.where is there proof that cannabis kills.We all know there are major health benefits of cannabis prohibition has failed time to regulate and tax and be aloud to grow your own.but rest assure our government will screw this up I have no doubt in that.Their friends in big pharma will lobby hard against this like they have been all along .
@Robert Phelan: This is quite an odd post. 20 doctors in ireland probably do know better than the whole country of canada 99% of whom are not medical professionals.
Also, they are not “dictating” anything. They have published a report highlighting concerns they have which the government should take into consideration when setting policy.
Some sort of de-criminalisation with regulation seems sensible to me particularly for those with chronic pain etc but I think the Doctors are dead right when they say there is a growing culture of “Ah sure a bit of weed never harmed anyone sure isn’t alcohol as bad” out there which ignores the fact weed does plenty of harm to certain people, those with addictive personalities, those with pre-existing mental health issues etc.
@John Kelly: why on earth would you put cannabis in the same category as heroin and cocaine?
@Michael O’Driscoll: because it is a controlled substance .. it is a mind altering mood changing psychoactive drug .. if u think its harmless you are listening to too much drug pushers..
@Kazoochka: one of these doctors was on the radio this morning they are not educated on this they are too one sided prohibition has failed and 20 doctors do not know more then hundreds of millions of people Kazoochka.the doctor that was on the radio this morning was even invited down to cork to see Vera towmeys daughter Ava so he could be educated on the health benefits of cannabis medication.this report is only about fear mongering that’s it. alcohol is by far the worst drug available in today’s society but your ok with that kazoochka. are you ok with the fact an 18 year old can buy a bottle of whiskey and down the whole lot in one nite and cause mayhem where is the regulation on that.your afraid of change kazoochka that’s all and big pharma are afraid of losing profits.theres nothing odd about my post
@John Kelly: heroin and cocaine are Class A drugs. Cannabis is not a class A drug. I did not say cannabis is not harmful. Personally I wouldn’t put them all together under the one umbrella. The ignorant do.
@John Kelly: So is alcohol and alcohol is listed as poisonous in its pure form. Dont even start me on the medication these doctors issue Benzos etc.
@Robert Phelan: You do realize it’s ” big pharma ” that will supply the medical weed and if it’s legalized and regulated it’s big pharma that will supply that too
@Francis Devenney: if you are correct that will be a travesty.
@Francis Devenney: big pharma are against this Francis make no mistake. the problem for them is medical cannabis can be grown by anybody therefore they can’t control it and can’t patent it and it covers a huge amount of medical illnesses.look at the jobs that would be created. Rural Ireland would explode with a new crop to grow.this country is far too dependent on big pharma for jobs.we need other industries as well too become less dependent on big pharma for jobs.this is a good thing if we regulate and control properly common sense is all that’s needed and education.
@Robert Phelan: theres a lot odd about your posts lad
@Kazoochka: O really so what’s odd there o wise one apart from your fake profile
These doctors probably do know more than a random bunch of journal commentators. The doctors will all have worked in phychatric wards at some stage and seen the damage that it can cause.
On the plus side – it might sedate a whole generation of people who are denied the opportunity of owning homes & having families
@Thomas Sheridan: so a small amount of people will have an adverse effect …these people if they have half a brain should know to keep clear of it its very simple. if not well they are to thick simple. I tried it didn’t agree with me and I’ll never do it again….to many people need to realise some people are dumb and legal or illegal they will try it even if they really should not.
@Ró: the proof is in the history of it’s use
Thousands of years used for many different conditions
I would ask who funds this group
Why is the rest of the world going 1 way but these guys no best
Holland regulate the strength of what is being sold 15% is the strongest
Prohibition does not work! The war on drugs does not work
Big pharma laughing all the way to the bank
@Kazoochka: yeah certain people .01 %
So we should all not be able to enjoy the pleasure of weed
Strictly speaking 25 years of age is when full brain development occurs
Let’s keep it to 15% for 21 n up
U then at least curtail thefangs and assure quality for the rest of us
@John Kelly: u know nothing ! Do your research n maybe u not look so utterly stupid
@Kazoochka: ignore this troll
@Al.Dunne: Actually it appears that frontal lobe development in most adults continues into the early 30s, not 25.
@John Kelly: John the 50s rang they looking for their attitude back..
@john doe: Francis is talking through his rear and he knows it.
@Al.Dunne: bang on the button AI.Dunne
@Peter Hughes: That’s the problem – they have half a brain now – but they were fine before smoking that stuff, sometimes only the once.
And that’s before considering the respiratory implications.
I’m not personally qualified to judge but I heed those with medical qualifications who are.
If any advocates for making it freely available cares to mention their medical qualifications I will give it due consideration
@Thomas Sheridan: it’s been used since we were chimps and before modern medicine was discovered, we don’t need 20 unnamed well funded 60 year olds to tell us history is wrong.
@Thomas Sheridan: proor to the last ten years or so only studies intended to discover negative consequences from the use of cannabis were permitted (in the US at least). Despite that scant or generally inconclusive negative effects were discovered. That is after 30 odd years looking for all these negative effects. There has been an explosion of positive findings in the last few years now that it is possible to get a licence to study tyia fasvinating plant.
While the views of experienced medical professionals should not be ignored, they are basing a lot on anecdotal evidence from those dealing with patients that would likely have issues anyway.
While it is not harmless, Relative to alcohol and other permitted activities it is harmless
the amount of people off their heads with no hope of recovery from prescription drugs is more troubling in my opinion. Perhaps doctors might think on that.
@Jude: the amount of people doing extremely well on prescription drugs is way more comforting and its backed up my medical science .. doctors are thinking very hard .. their primary rule is to do no harm so I assume if they are concerned about a new drug they need to highlight it .
@John Kelly: Sure they are
@Jude: Agreed, doctors need to stop taking out the prescription pad and instead TALK to their patients.
@John Kelly: lol cannabis a new drug……………Back under your rock john!!!
@John Kelly: here’s a fact John and your making a complete tit of yourself, look it up by researching it, that way you’ll educate yourself too, in New York state alone there are more people addicted to prescription drugs than people addicted to illegal drugs world wide.
@Jude: They do, at all expenses luxury conferences in Florida.
These doctors appear to be missing the point. The issue is not about the dangers of prolongued overuse of the drug. The issue is that criminalising camabis has done nothing to prevent it’s use, and instead helped criminals gangs to make tens of millions annually in untaxed income.
@Nicky O’Donnell: and the carnage that goes along with organised crime. Also the awful and dangerous additives criminal gangs add to the cannabis to increase potency
@Nicky O’Donnell: why do small sections and groups seem to hold so much of the voice on issues in this country, we still have religious nut jobs pushing to form policy and the likes of a handful of doctors causing panic through misinformation and out right exaggerations. These people prescribe far more dangerous drugs daily and have the neck to come on and start waffling about cannabis….these people really make me sick to the stomach.
@Nicky O’Donnell: But why is no one saying that the THC in cannabis now is stronger and out of balance compared to what it use to be in cannabis, this is causing brain damage to developing brains and causing permanent psychological problems and diseases in developing brains. Remembering a brain keeps developing until the age of 28…
Hopefully this won’t be used as an ongoing excuse to clamp down on CBD oil which had shown benefits controlling chronic idiopathic pain in some Air Corps colleagues.
@Chemical Brothers: hope they’re not flying when on it .. did they try nurofen ?
@John Kelly: CBD is the non psychoactive cannabinoid in Cannabis. The ‘high’ comes from THC .
@Bah Humbug Soon: did they try nurofen ? And is what they were using legal ? Has it been proven safe for pilots ?
@John Kelly: longterm nurofen use can damage your liver
@Damo: oh just googled it there and longterm nurofen use canresult in gastric ulcers increased blood pressure decreased kidney function,renal failure,heart failure and increased risk of stroke – but on the other side of things it is legal so much safer then smoking a joint
@John Kelly: Nurofen doesn’t work for chronic pain, and long term use has implications for the liver, and stomach and bladder lining. CBD oil does not. Low THC brands such as Charlotte’s Web can be very beneficial for some types of pain control – not all, but certainly some. Speaking from personal experience here.
@Damo: have to admit finding hard to believe that cannabis is causing more problems on the brain than alcohol. Are these doctors against cannabis but pro alcohol? Makes no sense.
@John Kelly: The colleague who has received most relief from CBD oil had previously reported intense chronic pain levels to his neurologist at 9 on a scale that maxed at 10.
He was subsequently found to have autonomous nervous system damage due to demyelination of his nerves which may have something to do with a hazing incident whereby he was tied up and doused in Trichloroethylene.
Thanks for the suggestion of Nurofen it was extremely useful…not. And you don’t have to worry about him flying aircraft because he’s currently flies a wheelchair / mobility scooter / leg braces / walking stick depending on his symptoms on a given day.
Been like that since his mid 30s.
@Cal Mooney: Them “doctors” are told what to say, little brown envelopes. Country is run on them.
@John Kelly: Neil Predervil will tell you all about the dangers of nurofen wine and flying, not illegal but frowned upon, w..king on a plane that is
@John Kelly: just shows how educated you are on the subject on THC and CBD. There’s a huge difference.
@John Kelly: You are some idiot ha
@John Kelly: You really have no idea about medication or its effects. Neith CBD, cannabis generally or pain killers.
@Cal Mooney: Big Pharma had to find a problem so they could make a synthetic version of it for profit.It by the was is extremely addictive unlike the natural product
@Damo: Are you referring to paracetamol, regarding liver damage?
(eg Solpadeine, etc)
(My understanding is that ibuprofen/nurofen can cause potentially fatal internal bleeds.)
(Oliver Sacks, in ‘an anthropologist on Mars’ remarks that ibuprofen (brand name nurofen), can cause achromatopic or dyschromatopic visual disturbance in some individuals, temporary loss, or alteration of colour vision.)
@John Kelly: Read up on the difference between THC & CBD.
I can honestly say this is the biggest load of garbage I have read in recent years. How much was the journal paid by big pharma to publish this utter nonsense. The “author” needs to assess their career….
@Nigel Mcatamney: It’s in the on-line Irish Times as well. It’s bought and paid for garbage there as well.
@Nigel Mcatamney: Why is it garbage? Because you disagree with it? Are the views of doctors who specialise in treating the consequences of cannabis use to be ignored? Big Pharma? You sound like one of those anti-vax cranks.
Let’s look at the evidence in the round. It is the high levels of THC that appear to be responsible for psychotic disorders. Could that be reduced if legalised and controlled. Yes perhaps. But if the damage is similar to cigarettes? Probably not. We need to assess all the evidence before deciding. The doctors are right to point out the dangers and these dangers viz THC are widely accepted especially in younger persons where the brain is still developing.
Throwing around nonsense like “garbage” and “Big Pharma” just makes you look like a conspiracy theorist.
@John R: If you believe for one minute that a group of doctors came together out of the goodness of their hearts, and concern for the public, you must believe in fairy tales.
These doctors and the pharmaceutical corporations are concerned about their pockets. Nothing else.
@Dave Doyle: Stop watching Alex Jones videos Dave
@John R: Doctors are supposed to tell the truth and not lie to the public. The only cranks here are the doctors who are openly lying distorting the truth. IMHO they are deliberately lying for with an ulterior motive. They are definitely not medical/scientific experts on cannabis. One lie among many from above ““Cannabis smoke contains the same cocktails of carcinogens and toxins as tobacco smoke and therefore it must be assumed that it brings with it all the medical risks associated with smoking cigarettes.””
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/
“
In conclusion, while both tobacco and cannabis smoke have similar properties chemically, their pharmacological activities differ greatly. Components of cannabis smoke minimize some carcinogenic pathways whereas tobacco smoke enhances some. Both types of smoke contain carcinogens and particulate matter that promotes inflammatory immune responses that may enhance the carcinogenic effects of the smoke. However, cannabis typically down-regulates immunologically-generated free radical production by promoting a Th2 immune cytokine profile. Furthermore, THC inhibits the enzyme necessary to activate some of the carcinogens found in smoke. In contrast, tobacco smoke increases the likelihood of carcinogenesis by overcoming normal cellular checkpoint protective mechanisms through the activity of respiratory epithelial cell nicotine receptors. Cannabinoids receptors have not been reported in respiratory epithelial cells (in skin they prevent cancer), and hence the DNA damage checkpoint mechanism should remain intact after prolonged cannabis exposure. Furthermore, nicotine promotes tumor angiogenesis whereas cannabis inhibits it. It is possible that as the cannabis-consuming population ages, the long-term consequences of smoking cannabis may become more similar to what is observed with tobacco. However, current knowledge does not suggest that cannabis smoke will have a carcinogenic potential comparable to that resulting from exposure to tobacco smoke.
It should be noted that with the development of vaporizers, that use the respiratory route for the delivery of carcinogen-free cannabis vapors, the carcinogenic potential of smoked cannabis has been largely eliminated [47,48].
@John R: i tend to agree that all the “big pharma” and corruption talk only serve to muddy the waters of valid debate.
That said there has been considerable documented funding by pharma companies of campaigns against legalisation of medicinal cannabis in american states. There is no doubt that medical cannabis will hurt their profits. Which is why pharma companies are trying to isolate and patent individual compounds from cannabis for sale for profit while at the same time lobbying to keep these compounds out of the hands of prople who can grow them for free.
You mention the evidence probably shows THC causes phycosis. However probably is not proof. The link is causal and not proven. Not saying cannabis is harmless but the risks are very low.
@john doe: Thanks for a considered response. The evidence js overwhelming that the very high levels of THC found in cannabis today causes serious problems for some people, especially some people. But it is the very high levels that cause this problem. Historically these levels would have been much lower and might only have been found in products like cannabis oil. Thus if the industry was regulated then cannabis with lower levels of THC could be made available without the harmful impact currently being experienced at the higher levels. The current high levels of THC have been compared to the effects of LSD. Some are more vulnerable than others. So regulation could potentially reduce the impact of high levels of THC.
@KingCrisp: goodness me such sweeping and libellous generalisations about medical professionals who are witnessing and treating the consequences of cannabis abuse. Unlike you. You believe that views contrary to your own amount to a conspiracy; a collusion with “Big Pharma” etc. I’d rather look at the science and not point the finger of blame at doctors who are treating addiction and probable know a great deal more about cannabis and its impacts on the human mind and body than you. What exactly are your qualifications? We have truly landed in the age of the denigration of expert views. By all means let’s critique those views. But with facts please and not wild, libellous and unsupported assertions.
@John R: agreed. If legal and regulated strength could be labelled and there would be more control of what youngsters can get their hands on. As it is we are doing the equivilant of a market selling only poitin when people want just beer.
This doesnt mean thc = bad
And there is no proof that thc causes schitzophrenia, only that there are considerable links between the two. It is not clear which causes which though.
@John R: Hope some of these people never need to refer one of their children. The doctor on radio this morning was very balanced and his input should be considered worthwhile.
@John R: your argument holds as much sway as alcohol affecting the livers of developing teenagers….. But sure go on there and have a few pints and a whiskey chaser. It’s nice and safe and taxable and harms nobody.
@John R: I’ve shown that they are lying, ergo they have ulterior motives. I’ve never mentioned big pharma. They could be sponsored by big pharma, but no information appears to be available about their ‘cannabis risk alliance’ group. They appear to be for prohibition and jailing nice people, ergo IMHO they hold antiquated views and want to jail people. They could be worried about cannabis, but they are spreading misinformation, the very thing that they are complaining about. There’s multiple falsehoods and scare tactics and the opposite to actual science. This has been the several attacks on recreational drugs in the past view weeks by the Gardai and this group. You say that they know more than me about cannabis, even though I’ve shown you a blatant lie from them. More research needs to be done, but these doctors are either deliberately telling lies or they aren’t as experts in this field, or both. The first link shows one of their blatant lies. The second shows that more research is needed, with experts who are not sure. Stress is one of the biggest causes of triggering schizophrenia along with other things and cannabis might only be a trigger for a preexisting condition. Alcohol is the main cause of dementia.
“Can cannabis use cause psychosis?
Yes, but so can overuse of caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, stimulants and hallucinogens. ”
“Consider cigarettes, the least mind-altering of these substances. In a 2015 study, a team led by Dr. Kenneth S. Kendler of Virginia Commonwealth University analyzed medical data on nearly two million people in Sweden. The data followed the individuals over time, from young adulthood, when most schizophrenia diagnoses occur, to middle age. Smoking was a predictor for later development of the disorder, and in what doctors call a dose-response relationship: the more a person smoked, the higher the risk.
Yet nicotine attracts nowhere near the concern that cannabis does”
Prohibition has forced high strength on the market. In the US their is a growing trend of lighter strength cannabis, a side effect of legalisation.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1277837/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/health/cannabis-marijuana-schizophrenia.html
@Dorothy: oh please think of the children argument ffs
@KingCrisp: These docs would sooner patients reliant on the “homicidal ideation” Mirtazapene.
Docs happy too to see Hutch & Kinahan continue to make millions from prohibition.
The guards must be in danger of losing some overtime and called in the medics for backup.
@John R IT is a plant and we all have an “Endocannabinoid system” Every human being on the planet has a right to use it. and no one has any right to deny anyone from using it. If you do not know anything about the “Endocannabinoid system” then you need to do some research.
Serious concerns about the long term effects of cannabis on memory and cognitive function…. is it that we are we only allowed have 1 such drug legalised, in the form of alcohol?
So many Irish families ruined by alcohol abuse BUT IT’S LEGAL AND TAXABLE SO IT’S OK LADS
You’d think the greedy eye of the Irish government would have turned to the colossal revenue being achieved in the US from the cannabis economy by now. It’s only a matter of time until they change their tunes when they realise how it could line their pockets.
@Rachel: so let’s now also destroy more Irish families through cannabis use as well as alcohol, but tax it and legalise it
@Ed Collins: people are using cannabis anyway. So let’s control it better to reduce harm.
@Ed Collins: so let’s bury the head in the sand and pretend what we are doing now is working…well pal it’s not and never will. change of direction is needed on drugs if you can’t see that you are blind or ignorant or just plane dumb.
@Ed Collins: bs
@Ed Collins: u show me a guy smoking a joint and I’ll show u guy not causing any1 any trouble
@Ed Collins: u show me a guy smoking a joint and I’ll show u guy not causing any1 any trouble
@Ed Collins: u show me a guy smoking a joint and I’ll show u guy not causing any1 any trouble
20 doctors. That’s it. All bought and paid for by the pharma industry no doubt in efforts to muddy the waters to keep those perscriptions flowing. They should be ashamed of themselves.
@Wade Wilson: suspiciously lacking information about them and who funds them on the internet.
@Liam Fahey: Exactly. Cannabis Risk Alliance is apparently 20 doctors who never give out their names or have any official website or organisation information but do from time to time send out press releases telling people marijuana is bad and needs more study. They have no publicly known qualifications or offices or anything. It could just be some fella with an email account.
@Liam Fahey: agreed I could find nothing re who funds this group, why is that ?
@Wade Wilson: and your qualifications??
@Wade Wilson: ha ha! This is comedy gold! And the best bit is, you don’t even realise it!
I am all for reviewing studies and analysis of how they were done. A doctor I know pointed out that a recent study showed 100% increase in psychosis around cannabis users. Sound like a huge issue except it was an increase from 0.001% to 0.002% and a very small study. Having years of data analytics under my belt means I know that this is not a sound significant figure to base anything on. Doctors are not experts in all fields and not experts on statistics. Nothing of significance has come up from place where cannabis is legal.not saying it harmless just is is patently obvious that for centuries humans have used this plant and been ok.
@Craic_a_tower: A huge amount of doctors are winging it day in day out just like everyone else.
Still safer than alcohol, and I’m sure these doctors love a pint
Cannabis can be associated with risks of psychosis / mental disorder *IF* the strains feature super high levels of THC and other cannaboids / alkaloids that cause confusion / disorientation. Low quality “Super Skunk” can cause all kinds of issues… and so can types of hashish mixed with who knows what for maximum profit.
*YET*
A friend of mine based in the USA has a whole research organisation dedicated to helping people set up dispensaries or work in this industry. My understanding from him and his colleagues is that when cultivated properly, regulated properly, issued by a dispensary, the risks of dodgy super skunk or tainted / cut hashish are dramatically minimised.
So whoever this working group is needs to think this through carefully. Many of the risks associated, which are viable risks, are there because it is illegal.
@Thomas O’Duffy: Good post. But this is exactly why we should consider all the evidence before doing anything.
Utter tubbish, they are worried about losing their backhanders from pharma for pushing their harmful opiate drugs, government seem to be cracking down hard on this medicine in the last few days, taking down harmless CBD shops, it’s a disgrace
@noel cox: who says its harmless ? The illegal growers like the cocoa producers
@John Kelly: oh dear
@John Kelly: The medicine has been around for 12,000 years. Only since 1937 was it deemed evil.
@Dave Doyle: so is cocaine .. that’s harmless too I suppose ..
@John Kelly: cocaine was only isolated from the coca leaf in the last 150 years. Cannabis has been used in its natural state for the thousands of years.
Neither are totally harmless. It would be foolish to suggest otherwise. Cannabis however is relatively harmless when compared to cocaine, alcohol, mountain climbing or horseriding.
If people choose they can get high from airesol cans. Far more dangerous than cannabis yet noone is suggesting to ban them. Go figure.
@John Kelly: Most things you do in life can be made illegal using prohibition laws. Watch the trailer and then the documentary that shows prohibition is not only idiotic, it also harms people and enriches gangland mafias. Sugary drinks alone, kills three times more people than heroine. If you use prohibitions logic sugar would be made illegal. Everyone involved in producing sugar, selling it and consuming it would be jailed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRvo9QabEIg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLT6AFsTm74
@John Kelly: Nothing that’s mixed with hydrochloric acid is harmless.
@thesaltyurchin: eh, no, if you mix baking soda and water with hydrochloric acid it neutralises it, rendering it totally harmless
All these articles are ifs and buts and extreme cases. Some predisposed people may have detremental affects under certain circumstances etc etc !! .
Sure isint that the same for all drugs prescribed or non-prescribed.
Legalisation or decriminalisation is not about the the percecived harms, but to to take recreational canabis users out of illegality.
Portugal and the Netherlands are closing prisons not building new ones.
I have been using cannabis and hasish ( amoung other things ) for over 30 years, I work as a Consultant in the Tech sector, constantly learning new technologies and constantly adapting to change, I am regulary working in Ireland and Europe, and when in a new area of Europe and most areas I can get what I want within 30 mins.
I have been working constantly for just over 26 years now have not missed a days work due to illness or any other issue in over 20 years, I have not been to a doctor in over 15 years and never been to hospital. I know many people like me. When younger some friends did not like cannabis, it made them fell paranoid etc and quess what, they didnt use it anymore, quite simple really, we all still meet regulary and the users and non-users haev no issue with the others choices etc.
As for these 20 Doctors, who are they ?, who is paying them ? etc etc.
Do not listen to any of these or others, make up your own minds and if you dont have experience of cannabis, keep your ill informed opinions to yourself.
Why don’t these 20 doctors pin a letter on the destruction alcohol is having on the lives of people the length and breath of this country, and they should know because they see it’s effects in A and E from week to week.
@Tom Ryan: over 9,000 people die in Ireland every year from skin cancer and the same from lung cancer. Who cares tho eh!
@thesaltyurchin: 9,000 people die every year die from cancer all included not 9,000 of both, 2,500 people are diagnosed with lung cancer (almost equally slplit now between men and women) most will die
Prohibition does nothing but make criminals rich…adults can make their own choices. As much as I am against personally taking any mind altering substance, I don’t see any value in trying to stop adults taking whatever drug, be it alcohol or heroin…or whatever, people will do it anyway. It would be safer, and less harmful to society as a whole if all drugs were legalized and regulated.
Should be legal for recreational use. 10 years sober off the dirty drug alcohol all thanks to cannabis. Saved my life..
Look at the many raids by garda daily clearly shows law enforcement are losing the battle.
People are gonna smoke if they want too, easy access online to purchase weed, we need to wake up, legalise and tax it. Maybe money made could home the 14000 homeless we have living on the streets..
Definitely worth investigating
People will smoke cannabis regardless of whether it is legal or not!!! Do they not understand this.
@Paul Howlin: Legalize and regulate
@Paul Howlin:”People will do [x] regardless of whether its legal or not” could be used as an excuse to legalize an awful lot of things.
@Kazoochka: Yeah but in this case it’s being used for Cannabis.
@Kazoochka: yes but it is far more relevant to cannabis because using it harms no one else especially if legalised.
Unlike murder which people will also do anyway but is rightly illegal as it has victims.
@Kazoochka: like what ?
A campaign is needed to counteract the damage done by the “Reefer Madness” brigade
@Joe Phillips: what damage? Fancy a pint?
@Al.Dunne: op is referring to the damage caused by American propaganda intended to demonise cannabis.
I’d rather a smoke than take 6 kinds of tablets laced with chemicals each day damaging my liver and side effects,can’t overdose on cannabis or die from it,pharma just a money racket
@Patti o furniture: Look up German Wings flight 9525 & Mirtazapene for an eye opener.
The govt
Ironic..
Doctors that on a daily basis prescribe drugs such as Lyrica and xanax, ruin lives through getting the innocent addicted and don’t seem to have a problem doing this?
Maybe they prefer to keep people heavily addicted to dangerous drugs rather than take a non addictive easy to grow yourself one?….
@David Grey: Prescription of a “family annihilation” pill or a “murder suicide” pill actually covers their arse and shows them to be proactive when manure hits the fan.
Doctors are the drug pushers for big pharma, with all the side effects that that brings. Big pharma are obviously worried, that the increased use of cannabis, will lead to a decrease in their ruthless profits. And when big pharma splash the cast, their is no shortage of front men to do their bidding. The consequences of over medication has been devasting for society. Think, antibiotics, blood pressure and cholesterol meds. The evidence is out there but big pharma are able to lobby it out of praftical existence and their profits go up, along with peoples dependencies. But peoples overall health decreases.
@John O’Hara: John human life expectancy has never been as high as it is now. Largely due to modern medicine and hygiene practices introduced on foot of modern medicine. Yes over-medication is a problem to be sure. Especially the use of antibiotics in animals to facilitate intensive farming. But the biggest cause of human illness is obesity, bad diet and lack of exercise and the demand from consumers for a pill to facilitate a quick fix to very ailment. Let’s not be too quick to denigrate modern medicine while admitting it’s deficiencies and let’s look in the mirror at our own behaviour while we are at it.
@John R: Do not confuse length of life with ‘health’. It is in the drug companies interest to keep people alive, but not healthy. Dead people can’t buy drugs and healthy people dont need to buy drugs. Alive and dependent is the way big pharma want you. Their lobbying and spinning ensure that position. The truism here is that, power wins over truth, sadly. Evil thrives where good people do nothing, or are just naive and taken advantage of.
Maybe there are problems with the dope, but I am for anything that takes away product from criminal gangs and cartels and makes it public. The biggest lobbyists against legalising stuff are probably the cartels.
Medical or recreational, the government need to let the people decide and put it to a vote.
I have many years experience of caring for a person with schizophrenia, believe me , if using Cannabis risks developing psychosis don’t go there. Young people should be taking part in healthy recreation like sports and the hundreds of other activities that young people have the energy to do o stead of being off their heads on cannabis.
@Aine O Connor: I have many years helping my father who has parkinsons, at first Cannabis was a great help to him, he could go tot golf range and swing a club after taking cannabis, he didnt want to get ‘stoned’ though, so now I get CBD oild fro him and he is like a new man. As for your referencenc, something like less than 1% of people are predisposed to possbile pyschosis from cannabis usage, so by your logic no one should try anything if 1% may not agree with it !!!
As for the sports and activities which of course is a good idea, but young peoople with the heads in smart phones and on socali media all day is far worse than having a spliff and chilling out.
@Gowon Geter:
According to callers to Liveline today drugs are freely available in secondary schools and are rampant in Universities. The Cannabis on the market now they said is far stronger than it used to be. It is accepted as normal one caller said to use drugs and probably many start with Cannabis. The Doctors who wrote the letter are mostly psychiatrists and they are seeing at first hand the consequences . My relative never took drugs so that had no role in her mental illness . My point is that serious mental illness is so devastating why would anyone risk their future for a few thrills.Saying that for medical conditions it appears to be a Godsend.
There is also the issue of keeping criminals in a luxurious lifestyle paid for through other people’s misery.
@Aine O Connor: If it’s regulated, you can choose a lower dose. Right now, everyone’s offering the strongest they can breed, so that’s all consumers can buy.
Alcohol is also accepted as normal, yet I’d advise people not to consume it..
Those doctors are also only seeing the victims, we can’t admit to consuming it so the figures are totally skewed.
I’m not saying it can’t cause harm, but it’s so obvious what we’re doing now is severely broken and puts good honest people on the same level as career criminals.
@Aine O Connor: first off. I wouldn’t be basing any argument on anecdotal stories from the Joe Duffy show!
Secondly, even if all the things you say are true, freely available in schools etc. In a legal controlled system it would be easier to control strength and availability to teens.
Finally.. these 20 docs are basing their argument on worse case scenarios. Yes they may see lots of people with severe mental issues who also smoke cannabis, cigarettes and drink alcohol. Yet they decide, without medical proof, that it is the cannabis that caused the issues. It is accepted that drink and drugs can trigger mental issues if already there. No proof that it creates new mental issues.
@john doe:
The parents on liveline told how their children’s lives were destroyed by the use of drugs including Cannabis. Also in countries where it has been legalized more people are using it. One man rang in to say his life has been ruined because of it. I believe them, they have no reason to make it up. Another man said that he used to take it years ago but it was mild in comparison to what’s available now.
I think Cannabis Oil it’s essential for some people with certain medical conditions but for others they need to be informed of the possible consequences .
The Politicians are taking too much Coke and god knows what they are Smoking ?
@Pl O’neill: good man PJ .. the anti empire rant straight away .. true to form.. you forget the EU
Why aren’t they looking to talk about the pros AND cons? Why only focus on the negatives of something we know (whether they like it or not) has many positives? Sorry
@Joe Phillips: no idea where that ‘sorry’ came from
How much are the pharmaceutical company’s paying you to subscribe there drugs……
Read that in the paper, terribly written for such educated people. They started by stating what seemed to be there intention for the ‘letter’ in the Times, proposing a two fold nature of the argument, (of medical and decriminalising) and then went on to write about how it may be damaging for young people if legalised. Pretty weak. Also it appears as tho we’re talking about 20 or so doctors. One thing we can all agree on is how hard it is to find a good doctor these days, especially if your dealing with specific ailments that need specialist understanding.
I take several medications, some partially toxic, damaging to my body and all developed by big pharma. If I didn’t take them I’d be dead. I’m satisfied with most of big pharma.
Cannabis is not a gateway drug it’s just seen to be, as someone who is open minded enough to try it, is more likely to try other drugs. It has nothing to do with Cannabis and nowadays I’d say more people’s first time drug to try is cocaine, considering it is more easily available than Cannabis, witch was never the case 10 years ago…. we are experiencing a cocaine epidemic and no doctors coming out against it…
Whoever can afford to spend €50 a day on cannabis and smoke €50 worth of cannabis every day, must be a millionaire with nothing to do! When was the last time any of these doctors put a few quid behind an organisation tackling alcohol abuse in Ireland?
Well then the doctors should have the balls to presribe it for mecidinal complaints. Then they have control over a small minority who do use it for mecidinal purposes. They have the power to do so, meanwhile the wingers who are on the payroll of the pharma companies can keep on whingeing.
Why are doctors trying to confuse the oil with those who smoke it, the healing properties of cannabis is in the oil and not in smoking it.
Smoking it just will make you high but the oil has the properties to cause damage cells to commit suicide and allows healthy cells to replace them.
The cannabis now is not the same as it was 30, 40 years ago as the cannabis now can damage the brains of teenagers causing psychotic episodes because the balance between the the THC is far greater than the other compounds that act like anti-psychotics. It seems the doctors are confusing THC with CBD on purpose in my view but why?
Maybe we should outlaws nuts, they can kill a small amount of the population.
@Al.Dunne: what about scuba diving. Lots of people die from that.
No one has ever died from cannabis poisoning yet it is possible to die from caffeine poisoning and we have no problem with that.
The double standards are mind boggling.
@Al.Dunne:
Stupid comment . People with nut allergies carry epipens for emergencies
Madness legalising cannabis
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