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Two referendums instead of one may be required on gender equality with 'tight' November timeline

A referendum on the ‘women in the home’ clause and a separate vote on the definition of family may be needed.

 THE PUBLIC COULD be asked to vote in two seperate referendums to deal with the issue of gender equality in the Constitution.

The Government has signalled its intention to hold a referendum in November on a proposal to insert a gender equality and non-discrimination principle into the Constitution.

There have been significant delays in the publishing of the proposed new wording, particularly in relation to the ‘women in the home’ clause in the Irish Constitution. 

A coalition of non-government organisations has written to Taoiseach Leo Varadkar on the matter, stating that there will not be enough to allow for a national conversation unless the wording is published soon. 

Senior sources have told The Journal that the two referendums will be needed to deal with gender equality in the Constitution. 

One vote will relate to the definition of the family, which the Constitution currently says is based on marriage.

A separate referendum will also need to be held on the deletion of the ‘women in the home’ reference in the Constitution, in favour of recognising care in the home. 

Article 41.2 of the Constitution currently reads:

In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.

Wording not agreed yet

The Journal understands that the wording relating to a vote on the ‘women in the home’ clause has not been agreed yet and that a few options are under consideration. It is believed that the wording will be agreed “in the next few weeks”. 

Questions have been raised about whether the Government can stand over the November timeline for the referendum, with sources stating that the timeline is “tight”. 

They said there are concerns and risks about how the Supreme Court might interpret the changes, while another source said a simple removal of the clause cannot be looked at in isolation as it is sequential to the meaning of family. 

Holding the ballot in November is still the plan presently, it is understood.

When asked today by this publication if it will go ahead in November, Minister for Housing and Local Authorities Darragh O’Brien said he hasn’t been told anything to the contrary. 

He said he had not seen the wording as of yet, but said he expected the matter to be dealt with in September, adding that it is a priority for Government.

Speaking last month on the issue, Varadkar said:

“I think we all agree that in the modern world, there are lots of families that are not married families. 

“Families led by grandparents; families led by couples that aren’t married; one-parent families; but we need to make sure that we get that wording right and people don’t misinterpret it,” Varadkar said.

“I have a fear that people will misinterpret us as trying to delete the family or to delete marriage when actually the Constitution protects marriage and the family, but it’s the linking of the two that is something that we think should change. 

“We are conscious that referendums can go wrong – low turnouts, extraneous arguments being brought into the picture, so we’re wise to that,” he added. 

In the open letter to the Taoiseach this week, Family Carers Ireland, One Family, the National Women’s Council (NWC), SIPTU and Treoir (the national federation of services for unmarried parents and their families) noted that the wording was expected by mid-May but that this deadline has now passed. 

The letter said that without knowing the exact wording, it will be “increasingly difficult to build a civil society response” and said this is unfair to the families and people directly impacted.  

Asked yesterday about the potential timing of the referendum, Tánaiste Micheál Martin said “there is a commitment to November” but that he wants to see the Referendum Commission given the appropriate amount of time to explain the issues.

“I take the point that we have to get the wording right but we also have to make sure that there’s ample time that the Referendum Commission, that inevitably has to be set up, has enough time to present this to the public and give greater detail,” he said.

“No decision has been made or the timing of it yet, there is a commitment to November. When government comes back the Cabinet sub-committee will meet on this and we’ll have a definitive response then in terms of timing. Certainly I would favor the optimal amount of time being given to the Referendum Commission to explain it.” 

With reporting by Jane Matthews 

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    Mute Jim O'Sullivan
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:09 AM

    What we need as a matter of urgency is a General Election.

    1066
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    Mute Big D
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:13 AM

    @Jim O’Sullivan: no point Jim. The same dopes will still be in power. All of the parties will band together to make a majority to keep the shinners out. So listo and mehole will still be playing tag team with the office of Taoiseach.

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    Mute tara tevlin
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    Aug 26th 2023, 1:56 PM

    @Jim O’Sullivan: Absolutely

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    Mute Helen Murphy
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    Aug 26th 2023, 1:59 PM

    @Big D: I’d vote against the government on any type of referendum on any subject. If they put forward a referendum on giving every homeless person a house within 2 weeks, I’d vote against it because they’d balls it up and wouldn’t follow through. Dung like this is easy because it’s about feelings and opinions rather than anything tangible or useful. Imagine pulling this crap when the country is a complete and utter mess due to their own incompetence. I used to laugh at the so called conspiracy theorists, but there’s something sinister about how the government are going against the will of the majority on almost every single issue.

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    Mute jiminybillybob
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:45 PM

    @Jim O’Sullivan: yes

    18
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    Mute TomDuffy
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:56 PM

    @Big D:

    sinn féin support cowards who murdered our Gardaí

    they deserve to be kept out

    24
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    Mute Brian molloy
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:37 AM

    How about a referendum on illegal immigration

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    Mute Kevin Kerr
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:26 AM

    @Brian molloy: how would that work, Brian?

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    Mute Paddy Losty
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    Aug 26th 2023, 10:04 AM

    @SYaxJ2Ts: The same way as the upcoming Polish one, presumably

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    Mute Kevin Kerr
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    Aug 26th 2023, 10:17 AM

    @Paddy Losty: makes no sense. Why would we ask that question in Ireland?

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    Mute J Ven
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    Aug 26th 2023, 10:46 AM

    @Brian molloy: I think your dissatisfaction with the government which I share has gotten to the way you speak. What illegal immigration are you talking about? If you’re talking about Ukrainians, they are here legally, that’s an immigration policy that cannot be put on a constitution but in the law. If you’re talking about Sirians, Afghans, etc., that’s an asylum policy, all these people are here legally for whatever reason. Once their refugee claim has been rejected after a 10 year illogical process and they still remain, then yes, that would be illegal immigration. But Ireland is not like the US where you can just show up here illegally and work, We’re on an island and very few companies wouldn’t risk giving someone a job without a PPSN and the proper visa. You can’t open a bank account if you’re here illegally, not possible. Your options are very limited. I think you’re talking about immigration and asylum reform.

    51
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    Mute Marie Nolan
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    Aug 26th 2023, 12:28 PM

    @Brian molloy: there is a planned referendum in Poland on immigration, should be an interesting outcome.

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    Mute louis passero
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    Aug 26th 2023, 1:01 PM

    @Marie Nolan: Which is kind of ironic if you think about how many Polish are in Ireland.

    39
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    Mute Dancey McDonagh
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:30 PM

    @J Ven: What about those who arrive from safe countries having destroyed their documentation? Are they here legally?

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    Mute jiminybillybob
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:48 PM

    @louis passero: they came as E.U. citizens and with documentation.
    So completely legal.

    20
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    Mute Thomas Sheridan
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:55 PM

    @louis passero: all Polish immigrants to Ireland happened legally aspart of EU integration and, for the most part, they have been highly skilled and hard working. Hope you see the difference.

    69
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    Mute Spanner
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    Aug 26th 2023, 5:13 PM

    @Brian molloy: perhaps just enforcing the current laws and not letting arrivals who have destroyed their documents enter the state and repatriating those whose asylum requests are rejected instead of politely asking them to leave. Speeding up the asylum process would help too as its unfair and inhumane to make people wait so long for a decision

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    Mute
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:05 AM

    Is that one referendum per gender?

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    Mute Martin Kenny
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:16 AM

    Haha brilliant

    182
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    Mute James.s.
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:46 AM

    @: silly Billy, you think there are only two genders.

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    Mute Dave Barrett
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:36 AM

    And family is mother, father, child. Let there be no deviation from that fact.

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    Mute Shane O Mac
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:55 AM

    @James.s.: yes only 2 genders

    222
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    Mute
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    Aug 26th 2023, 11:10 AM

    @Dave Barrett: 1952 just rang for you. Will I tell them you’re busy talking through your cake hole again?

    23
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    Mute N Sweeney
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    Aug 26th 2023, 11:11 AM

    @Dave Barrett: what about the Dog or any and all family pets?

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    Mute Paul C
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    Aug 26th 2023, 1:34 PM

    @Dave Barrett: fact? No. Your opinion, yes.

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    Mute John Deer
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:21 PM

    @Shane O Mac: Yeah, just like sizes, shapes and colours: tall or short, wide or narrow, black or white. Definitely nothing in between.

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    Mute Martin Kenny
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:15 AM

    In other words, they can’t find any suitable words that the snowflake generation won’t find offensive

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    Mute mani mus
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:58 AM

    @Martin Kenny: in other words, they can’t find any suitable words that the conspiracy theory, wannabe MAGA, far right, librarian-hating useful idiots won’t find too easy to twist into yet another disinformation campaign.

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    Mute
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:01 AM

    @mani mus: You forgot racist and antivax! If you’re going to play buzzword bingo then do it properly!

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    Mute mani mus
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:57 AM

    QED

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    Mute James Kerins
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    Aug 27th 2023, 2:15 AM

    @mani mus: me thinks you lost that round….

    12
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    Mute Irish Harp
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:39 AM

    Hate speech laws and now gender referendum, this government is obsessed with woke issues.

    823
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    Mute Shane O Mac
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:56 AM

    @Irish Harp: spot on and avoiding the real issues.

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    Mute Dancey McDonagh
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:32 PM

    @Free Nig er: This is correct.

    41
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    Mute Davejohnston
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:55 AM

    There should be a referendum on biological males who identify as women who insist on being allowed into actual women’s public bathrooms and changing areas. A resounding no vote would be the result.

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    Mute Dancey McDonagh
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:34 PM

    @Davejohnston: That’s why you won’t get a referendum on that one. Same with the immigration question.

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    Mute John Deer
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:28 PM

    @Davejohnston: where do you stand on ‘biological’ women using the mens jacks? After all, you could… y’know… be raped and what not…

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    Mute john Dwyer
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:48 AM

    A male cannot have children. A female can have children unless they have a medical issue which prevents them. So let’s quit while we are ahead. I identified as a cow but I can’t have a calf. I identify as living in a country which has completely lost the run of itself. Oh someone help us.

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    Mute TomDuffy
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    Aug 26th 2023, 3:02 PM

    @john Dwyer:

    i remember a gay couple , two male celebrities on the red carpet years ago

    they’re soooooo excited .. they’re “expecting”

    a man can’t get another man pregnant so how can two men be expecting a baby?

    i thought it was foe king disgusting

    105
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    Mute John Deer
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:31 PM

    @john Dwyer: Single mothers, single fathers, house husbands, grandparents looking after their (predeceased or sick) children’s kids. There are all sorts of ‘new’ families out there. Get with the times.

    15
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    Mute Gerry Kelly
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:47 AM

    Modern western politics – virtue signalling is far more important than actually tackling any key issues
    The 21st century version of bread and circuses

    412
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    Mute
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:42 AM

    Does the government actually care about gender equality or do they just want to normalise further, both parents working all day and paying tax? Hmmm

    346
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    Mute Tomasso San Roque
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:35 AM

    Any referendum would be a complete waste of time and taxpayers money, considering Article 40.1, of the Constitution states:

    “All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law. This shall not be held to mean that the State shall not in its enactments have due regard to differences of capacity, physical and moral, and of social function.”Therefore Article 40.1 currently says that all Irish citizens have the same legal right.

    What this is is an underhand attempt to enshrine transgenderism in our constitution, like the hate speech BS, being pushed by the government through taxpayer and foreign funded funded NGO’s.

    Why won’t they give us a referendum on public ownership of Irish Water, or like the planned referendum in Poland on immigration, I wonder.

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    Mute Ludie Creech
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    Aug 26th 2023, 11:29 AM

    @Tomasso San Roque: it’s called virtue signalling.

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    Mute The Irish love this shy....
    Favourite The Irish love this shy....
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:16 AM

    The “modern family” is a euphemism for: uncommitted, conditional, friends with benefits, same-sex arrangements, fornication, living with each other, me first, a la carte catholicism, shacking up, freedom etc.
    Grandparents have, since time began been involved in families but let’s not use it as a ruse to cover the “modern family”. Love has responsibility and is not based on feelings no more than those who get married for better and for better again. What happened to Humility, Decency, Sacrifice and Commitment? Morality is not about feelings and situations, it’s about truth and the family is at the heart of society. Using new names for particular arrangements doesn’t make an apple an orange. Pure woke craft from the merchants of woke.

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    Mute John Mulligan
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:30 AM

    @The Irish love this shy….: Excellent comment A+

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    Mute Ali123
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    Aug 26th 2023, 10:18 AM

    @The Irish love this shy….: really well written. Thank you.

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    Mute TomDuffy
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    Aug 26th 2023, 3:10 PM

    @The Irish love this shy….:

    friends with benefits
    same-sex arrangements
    fornication
    living with each other

    sounds like people who saw through the catholic BS

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    Mute John Deer
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:37 PM

    @The Irish love this shy….: You lost me at ‘fornication’. We fcuk here… or feck if we’re being polite.

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    Mute Ludie Creech
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:48 AM

    Another example of how complicated things get when a people ignores “the science”, strays from the natural patterns and rejects the God-ordained ordering of society.

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    Mute peter murray
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:48 AM

    There is absolutely no public demand for even one of these referendums. Thankfully, there is no prospect of meeting a November deadline anyway.

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    Mute Davy
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:58 AM

    FFG again acting as they like. They don’t want debate and will try tell you and I , there are more than 2 genders . This is not about women in the household being removed from the constitution. Wait and see.

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    Mute Mawbawsa Ritchie
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    Aug 26th 2023, 11:29 AM

    Another smoke screen to deflect away from the real issues of living in Ireland.
    One thing this shower is brilliant at, is fixing things that are not broken.

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    Mute Trent
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:33 AM

    We need a referendum on weather or not on having 2 referendums

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    Mute
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:42 AM

    @Trent: I’d definitely vote to change the weather!

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    Mute Trent
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:48 AM

    @: Mr/Ms Anonymous is cracking jokes again funny person

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    Mute
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:55 AM

    @Trent: Thanks dollface x

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    Mute Donal Desmond
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    Aug 26th 2023, 11:58 AM

    Whatever happened to the referendum concerning the ownership of water . It was part of Martin’s FF election manifesto. Seems to have disappeared off the agenda.

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    Mute BL Music
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    Aug 26th 2023, 10:36 AM

    More FFG rubbish.

    They are not interest in real life changing issues . Varadkar and Martin have a lot to answer for. About time they WOKE up

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    Mute Markos Drakos
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    Aug 26th 2023, 12:59 PM

    Pointless referendum. Housing right is guaranteed under the constitution, so what? The government has been miserably failed tor so long. It works only if you are asylum seeker as they are protected under international conventions.

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    Mute Kevin Kerr
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:35 AM

    Just like during the week, it seems that the vast majority of posters here have no idea what the proposed referendum is about. No surprising, I guess

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    Mute John Deer
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:45 PM

    @SYaxJ2Ts: I think the vast majority of posters is actually one lonely, hate-filled person with multiple, unifying egos. It’s kinda funny.

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    Mute stella Ormes
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    Aug 26th 2023, 7:22 PM

    Remember whey they said thr Marriage Equality referendum was just about allowing gay couples to marry? Then we discovered it also meant any man could self identify as a woman and be accepted legally as a women.
    Study the wording of any referendum very, very carefully before ticking that box.

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    Mute John Deer
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:51 PM

    @stella Ormes: … and where do you stand on women self-identifying as men? Is that okay your ridiculous rulebook?

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    Mute ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere
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    Aug 26th 2023, 11:33 AM

    Why not just change “woman” to “parent or guardian”?

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    Mute Dancey McDonagh
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:40 PM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: Better yet, why not just abandon the whole pointless waste of time and money and have a referendum about the immigration issue instead?

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    Mute Sheila McNulty
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    Aug 26th 2023, 4:54 PM

    @ItWasLikeThatWhenIGotHere: what are u on about why would u change women or woman & change it to parent or guardian? Have u lost the plot

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    Mute AnthonyK
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    Aug 26th 2023, 9:37 AM

    The fact that the line ‘women in the home’ has lasted so long speaks volumes about this country. I am surprised it was not on the agenda for feminist ire since the days of the contraceptive train.

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    Mute Clare Power
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    Aug 26th 2023, 11:16 AM

    @AnthonyK: or men in the home haven’t had an uprising and want to be counted since men want to stick their two cents worth into every issue that affects women.

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    Mute Emma Marchand
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    Aug 26th 2023, 1:29 PM

    I have an unpopular opinion, maybe other women believe this too, that women should have special protection in the constituion… After all, we are especially vulnerable, and what we are born to do is especially important to society, and we do it better in families and with the help of other women. But yes, the specific definition of family from a legal standpoint could change for the purposes of protecting children in those families, but not to protect housewives.

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    Mute Canada Goose G Dog
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:37 AM

    We are all one people, be it women, men or the binary lot. Let’s stick together.

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    Mute UCD Trinity
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    Aug 26th 2023, 10:49 AM

    Why not four ?
    Throw in a snap election as week perhaps
    Then we will see a shake up of Government
    FF and SF i would think the next Gov will be
    Afraid Leo has annoyed MMartin too much, remember him trying to steal the limelight as Tainistse with leaks and pre-mature statements ? He couldn’t handle being 2nd fiddle to MMartin. In a few years he’ll be answering to Simon Harris. I bet my Jag on it, which is just serviced and taxed until the end of the year.

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    Mute Dancey McDonagh
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:42 PM

    @UCD Trinity: The Boy Harris will likely lose his seat at the next election. Will they really elevate someone who can’t get elected in his own constituency to the top spot in the party?

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    Mute Dancey McDonagh
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:43 PM

    @Dancey McDonagh: Mind you, McEntee has let them down with her gross incompetence and inability to manage her remit. So, maybe they won’t give up on the Grey Boy yet.
    They really need some new blood.

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    Mute UCD Trinity
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    Aug 26th 2023, 2:45 PM

    @Dancey McDonagh: Leo just scraped by in last election I believe. Cant remember was he Leader of FG then (think he was). Be interesting with Leo also as he no longer lives in Castleknock, he’s a south inner city boy now.

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    Mute John Deer
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    Aug 26th 2023, 8:47 PM

    @UCD Trinity: Four? Why four? Three is the lucky number.

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    Mute Shane Kinsella (Kinsey)
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    Aug 26th 2023, 5:03 PM

    I’m just voting no. I don’t care anymore. I respect each and every person to live their own life as they see fit , do what you want ECT. but I’m sick of their woke crap. So it just a no from me. I’ve had enough.

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    Mute Eddie Taylor
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    Aug 26th 2023, 1:43 PM

    In a court house when you’re back is against the wall the constitution is not worth the paper it’s written on – it’s a guideline nothing else.

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    Mute Nestor
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    Aug 26th 2023, 11:37 PM

    Waste of tax payer’s money that could be spent much better!

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    Mute Robert Halvey
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    Aug 27th 2023, 6:00 AM

    Imagine a world without ffg

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    Mute Fintan Neelan
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    Aug 26th 2023, 10:08 PM

    Can we finally call camogie hurling? That would help no end

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    Mute Conor Garvey
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    Aug 27th 2023, 3:56 AM

    I won’t b voting in those referendums a complete waste of time I have better things to b doing that day

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    Mute Michaela
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    Sep 6th 2023, 5:08 PM

    @Conor Garvey: voting no would be a better form of protest

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    Mute Michaela
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    Sep 6th 2023, 5:08 PM

    Varadkar says: “We are conscious that referendums can go wrong – low turnouts, extraneous arguments being brought into the picture, so we’re wise to that,” he added.

    When you consider what he is actually saying in this, you realise how little respect Varadkar has for the democratic will of the people.

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