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ALMOST TWO WEEKS after the country went to the polls, the 33rd Dáil sat for the first time today.
TD’s voted to elect a Taoiseach and, as expected, Leo Varadkar, Micheál Martin, Mary Lou McDonald and Eamon Ryan were all rejected by the house.
The Fine Gael leader will travel to Áras an Uachtaráin to tender his resignation but will remain in place, along with the current cabinet, until a new Taoiseach is elected.
McDonald racked up the most votes as several independent and Solidarity-People Before Profit TDs backed the Sinn Féin leader.
Seán Ó Fearghaíl was re-elected as Ceann Comhairle.
Our reporter Rónán Duffy is also down outside Leinster House.
He’s been speaking to Sinn Féin’s new TD for Roscommon-Galway Claire Kerrane.
She said: “I’ve been in here for the past three years working but today is a different capacity. I’m looking forward to it… It’s a great day for everyone.”
Green Party TDs – and husband and wife – Catherine Martin and Francis Noel Duffy have arrived at Leinster House with their three children.
They say they’re going to have to strike a work-life balance.
Newly elected Francis Duffy for the Greens with his wife TD Catherine Martin. They’re going to have to strike a work life balance, he says pic.twitter.com/TLdUgZT13F
Naughten says civil servants must be accountable to Dáil Éireann.
He says that in the case of the HSE, the only method of accountability is the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health or parliamentary questions that can take weeks.
“Sometimes the very last person to know is the TD whose constituents are directly affected,” he says.
Naughten says that GDPR is being used to avoid answering legitimate questions of TDs.
“It would be an honour to be Ceann Comhairle,” he says, saying it’d be a greater honour to allow TDs to seek answers and provide greater accountability.
Ó Feargháil says he has helped build structures to help members in the drafting of legislation.
Other “absolutely critical” all-party committees on health, on housing and on the Travelling community has seen “us work well for common cause”, he says.
“We have engaged with the youth of this nation on the crucial issue of climate change,” he says.
“I seek your support this afternoon to continue that collegiate approach,” he says.
Thanks Sean! Cónal Thomas here folks taking over from my colleague for the next while.
Before the secret ballots commences, TDs take a minute to chat amongst themselves. There’s Tánaiste Simon Coveney speaking with outgoing Labour Party leader Brendan Howlin.
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20 Feb 2020
12:43PM
So what happens now?
Well, voting takes place using the PR-STV system, so TDs will mark candidates in order of preference. They will vote in the privacy of specially erected polling booths in the voting lobbies just off the Dáil chamber.
Once all members have cast their votes the ballot will conclude and the Dáil will be suspended so the votes can be counted.
The quota is 50% plus one. Theoretically, if all members vote correctly (no spoiled ballots) then the quota is 80. As soon as a candidate has reached this threshold, they are deemed elected.
Once elected, the successful candidate’s name will be announced at the count centre, near the Seanad chamber.
The Dáil resumes and the election of the new Ceann Comhairle is formally put to the house. If 30 members call for a division then a vote must take place, but if there are fewer than this then the candidate is formally elected.
No other Dáil business may be conducted until a Ceann Comhairle is elected.
Still plenty of milling about going on in the Dáil chamber. The voting is about to get underway.
As TDs continue to cast their ballots, can you name the first ever Ceann Comhairle?
That’s right, it was revolutionary leader Cathal Brugha, who served for only one day, presiding over the house’s symbolic first meeting, before leaving the post to become President of Dáil Eireann.
Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin sums up the people’s wishes – “They want action on housing, they want action on health and to alleviate the pressures people are under and they want to deal with the crisis of our generation, climate change.”
Ó Feargháil received 130 votes with Naughten receiving 28 votes.
The Ceann Comhairle is the chair of the Dáil and is expected to observe strict impartiality and keep order in the house.
Whoever is elected to the role is automatically re-elected to the next Dáil.
Ó Feargháil was Ceann Comhairle of the 32nd Dáil and was the first to be elected by secret ballot in 2016. Previously, the government of the day would simply choose who would take up the role.
He was the first Fianna Fáil Ceann Comhairle to be elected since Seámus Kirk who held the post in the 30th Dáil between 2009 and 2011.
Down at Leinster House, TD Richard Boyd Barrett has said that Solidarity-People Before Profit will vote for Mary Lou McDonald for Taoiseach.
“Our view is that there was a political earthquake that happened in this election and that earthquake demanded that there was a break in the cycle of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael rule,” he said.
“We think the only way to give effect to that clear demand of people is to establish a left minority government and the only realistic way of doing that would involve supporting Mary Lou McDonald as Taoiseach and ruling out any deals with Fianna Fail or Fine Gael to form a government.
“On that basis we are going to vote for Mary Lou McDonald as Taoiseach, but we want to make it clear we are not giving her a blank cheque, we are doing this in order to give effect to the demand to break the cycle of Fianna Fail and Fine Gael.
“We hope she will take our support in order to rule out any possible deal with Fianna Fail and Fine Gael.”
Lots of excitement around Leinster House still, the place has never had so many kids running around the place. Lots of selfies and pics being taken by the Proclamation. Debate in the canteen heard about who was more FF with one TD saying their granny goes way back in the party
Fianna Fáil TD Seán Ó Feargháil has been re-elected Ceann Comhairle and dons the robes for another term.
20 Feb 2020
3:24PM
After taking the chair Ó Feargháil gave a brief history of the Ceann Comhairle robes. He told the house that they were once the subject of a Freedom of Information request which found that they were so old that nobody knew who much they cost and they had never been dry cleaned.
20 Feb 2020
3:36PM
Party leaders are now congratulating Ó Feargháil on his reelection. The Green Party’s Eamon Ryan thanked him for being an excellent Ceann Comhairle, noting that he never kicked anyone out during his first term.
Ryan did offer a small bit of criticism, joking that Ó Feargháil has reduced the length of the minute of silence to about 11 seconds.
20 Feb 2020
3:46PM
Leo Varadkar is the final person to congratulate Ó Feargháil. Introducing him, the Ceann Comhairle said: “A bit like the wedding feast of Cana, we now go to the Taoiseach”.
“I didn’t realise the Taoiseach was at the wedding feast of Cana,” Varadkar quipped in response.
20 Feb 2020
3:49PM
Ó Feargháil thanked all the contributors for their kind words, saying he had to pinch himself at one point because he thought he was dead.
We’re now on to nominating people for Taoiseach and Fine Gael’s Bernard Durkan, the oldest member of the house, has nominated Leo Varadkar to continue in the role.
“He has discharged that office in the past with distinction, with honour, with courage,” Durkan said.
Making her maiden address to the Dáil, Fianna Fáil’s Norma Foley said she is “proud beyond measure” to nominate Micheál Martin for Taoiseach.
“If you look fairly at his record you will see that he has already achieved far more positive change than his loudest critics could ever hope to match,” she said.
20 Feb 2020
4:03PM
Martin’s nomination was seconded by the youngest member of the 33rd Dáil. 22-year-old James O’Connor, TD for Cork East.
20 Feb 2020
4:09PM
Sinn Féin’s Pearse Doherty has nominated Mary Lou McDonald for the position of Taoiseach, giving an impassioned speech as gaeilge.
“Nobody in this Dáil can lead this government for change other than Mary Lou McDonald,” he said.
Above all else she is an Irish republican and at this time that is what we need.
“As a republican woman there is no one I admire more than Mary Lou McDonald,” Kerrane said.
“We need change, we need something new, we need Mary Lou.”
20 Feb 2020
4:16PM
The nominations continue with Dublin Fingal TD Joe O’Brien putting Green Party leader Eamon Ryan forward. “Eamon incapsulates a spirit that is essential for the 33rd Dáil if it is to succede,” O’Brien said.
20 Feb 2020
4:30PM
Joan Collins of Independents 4 Change, Mick Barry of Solidarity–People Before Profit, Paul Murphy of RISE and independents Thomas Pringle and Catherine Connolly have told the chamber they will be backing Mary Lou McDonald for Taoiseach.
So the Sinn Féin leader looks set to secure the most votes later today.
20 Feb 2020
4:55PM
The sitting is continuing with a range of politicians having their say on the election and the government formation talks.
Kerry TD Michael Healy-Rae congratulated Sinn Féin on taking the initiative and trying to form a government.
Richard Boyd Barrett confirmed that People Before Profit will also back McDonald.
Róisín Shortall said the Social Democrats would not be backing any of the candidates because it would be “meaningless” to do so without a programme for government agreed upon.
20 Feb 2020
5:20PM
Several more TDs are in line to speak before the Dáil votes on the four nominations for Taoiseach.
Danny Healy-Rae is currently paying tribute to his “army” of volunteers that helped him get reelected.
The story in the local papers was that Fianna Fáil smelled my blood. Well I still have all my blood… they were on the wrong scent.
Fianna Fáil’s John McGuinness said the Dáil should not adjourn for two weeks after today’s sitting. He also said that no party should be left out of the discussion about the future of the country.
Here’s more from our political correspondent Christina Finn in Leinster House:
He says there’s no reason why the House should be adjourned and puts it up to each leader to bring forward ideas for their program for government. He says the members should be involved and debate the issues while the talks go on behind closed doors
Limerick independent Richard O’Donoghue has made a memorable maiden speech in Leinster House.
“How many of ye here have education of life? How many of ye have common sense? I do believe that an ounce of cop-on is better than a stone of brains,” he said.
O’Donoghue also demanded that the next government respects rural Ireland.
20 Feb 2020
5:38PM
Ceann Comhairle Seán Ó Fearghaíl has revealed that there are nine further speakers before voting can take place. He urged the remaining speakers to be mindful that the voting will take some time as well.
We’ll be here for a while yet.
20 Feb 2020
5:46PM
Fianna Fáil’s Jennifer Murnane O’Connor has quoted CS Lewis saying: “There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind.”
Hopefully she was talking about this Dáil sitting.
20 Feb 2020
5:54PM
Kerry TD Brendan Griffin has welcomed all the new deputies to the Dáil by noting that many eminent writers have been quoted in the chamber today.
“I’m going to quote Axel Rose,” he said. “Welcome to the jungle.”
20 Feb 2020
6:02PM
The Fine Gael junior minister also hinted that the 33rd Dáil might be a short lived one. “We don’t know whether to put the posters in front of, or behind, the turf shed yet,” he said.
Griffin also referred to an earlier contribution from his fellow Kerry TD Danny Healy-Rae, who said that he had 162 volunteers out canvassing for him on one night during the election campaign. Griffin said he had 163 people out on the same evening.
A busy night in Kerry.
20 Feb 2020
6:20PM
Independent TD for Galway West Noel Grealish says he “will not sit on the fence” this evening and will vote in favour of Fianna Fáil’s Micheál Martin for Taoiseach.
“People want us to get on with it and form a government,” the former Progressive Democrat said.
20 Feb 2020
6:29PM
Independent Waterford TD Matt Shanahan said he will not be supporting any of the four candidates for Taoiseach as a mark of protest over restrictions on cardiac services in the south east.
Fianna Fáil’s Mary Butler was the final speaker ahead of the votes. Varadkar is first up. If, as expected, he is not elected he will travel to Áras an Uachtaráin to tender his resignation.
Deputies are now filing through the lobbies. There’s quite a bit of a backlog in the Níl lobby so the vote on Varadkar for Taoiseach looks set to be comfortably defeated.
20 Feb 2020
7:05PM
The result is:
Tá – 36
Níl – 107
The proposal on Varadkar for Taoiseach has been defeated.
TheJournal.ie‘s political correspondent Christina Finn reports that the Social Democrats abstained from the vote, as did independent TDs Cathal Berry and Pat Shanahan.
Galway East independent Sean Canney backed Varadkar, bringing his number up to 36.
Varadkar will travel to Áras an Uachtaráin to tender his resignation but will remain in place until a new Taoiseach is elected.
Not near enough to see Martin elected. The house will now vote on McDonald.
20 Feb 2020
7:26PM
Meanwhile, away from Taoiseach votes, a new technical parliamentary grouping has been established.
Nine TDs from across the country have agreed to come together to establish ‘The Regional Group’.
the group’s members are: Cathal Berry, Sean Canney, Peter Fitzpatrick, Noel Grealish, Michael Lowry, Verona Murphy, Denis Naughten, Matt Shanahan and Peadar Toibin.
Convener Denis Naughten said:
This group will operate as a technical group in Dáil Eireann for speaking time and the scheduling of parliamentary business.
“The group was established following the decision by Dáil Eireann today to establish a business committee to progress the day-to-day operation of parliamentary business.”
20 Feb 2020
7:34PM
The result of the vote on McDonald for Taoiseach is in:
Tá – 45
Níl – 84
Abstentions – 29
McDonald racked up more votes than her Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael counterparts, who got 41 and 36 respectively.
It still isn’t anywhere near enough to see her elected.
Scenes in Leinster House as we nearly had an accidental Taoiseach. Virgin Media’s Gavan Reilly has the news:
There were about 15 seconds there where Eamon Ryan was accidental Taoiseach - nobody bothered to shout ‘Votáil’ so his nomination was about to head through by acclamation!...
The four defeated nominees will now make contributions. Seán Ó Fearghaíl asked them to be mindful that we are running way over time.
Varadkar is speaking first. When this sitting finishes he will travel to Áras an Uachtaráin to tender his resignation.
20 Feb 2020
8:00PM
Varadkar says he will travel to the White House for the annual St Patrick’s Day visit if no government has been formed by then.
However, he says it will be a shortened trip as the Taoiseach will have to travel back to Europe to attend an important EU Council meeting.
He paid tribute to the ministers who lost their seats in the election but said he knows they will continue to lead their departments with “good grace and competence”.
Micheál Martin dedicated a significant chunk of his remarks to criticising Sinn Féin, accusing the party of glorifying the IRA.
“I see we still live rent free in Micheál Martin’s very narrow and bitter mind,” McDonald said in an equally lengthty and excoriating response.
“I have significant concerns with a leader who sat around a cabinet table with people who were subsequently jailed for corruption,” she added.
20 Feb 2020
8:24PM
So that’s it from the first day of the 33rd Dáil. It was a day that saw 48 new TDs attend Leinster House for the first time, but a new government still looks quite a distance away.
The house will reconvene in early March and the political horse trading will continue in public and behind the scenes.
Check out TheJournal.ie for all the important developments and thanks for following this evening.
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@Free comment ratings: Unfortunately women will still have to make the journey today. My heart breaks for them and the women who suffered unnecessarily because of the 8th. At least my daughter will have a choice when she grows up.
@Darren Norris: Darren, Darren, are you still there? Look, stick your head in the sand and pretend that baby parts were not used to heat 27 NHS hospitals in the UK. Did you say religious? What’s that got to do with it? RTE exit poll, 74% declared themselves as RCC. Nice try though.
@Shy Tall Knight: I know. But he said we’ll take it from here..hardly when people are making that journey today. We will take it over at some point but at the moment.
Little by little the Church is loosing control over the state. Next up getting rid of their influence on education. Again Iona and their ilk will protest, again the people will have their say.
@Toon Army: this was an abortion debate. It!’s said that the angry atheists have seen this as a church issue. Go down and throw rocks at the pensioners hobbling into mass to satisfy your bigotry and let the adults debate the rights and wrongs of our new abortion regime.
@Toon Army: By adults you mean let the politicians, right? although clearly, they should end up with similar to what was proposed at this stage/ but not necessarily the exact same.
@Toon Army: The turn out was very strong overall showing real engagement in the process. However, I have seen so many comments and heard so many people refer to the church regarding this vote. If people really have used this as a vote against the church then it really is a sad day, not for women, but for everyone.
@Nick Drake: According to the exit polls the main reason people voted yes was based on the shocking personal stories of the lives of women who were affected by this draconian amendment. An amendment that yes, had the full backing of the Church. It’s a sad day when, even after the people have clearly spoken, the no side will continue to deflect, speculate and ignore the facts.
This was a woman’s health and rights issue. Polling stations were full of mothers and daughters going together to vote and it was great to see the men in this country out to support thier wives , daughters , sisters and mother’s whom have been denied the right to medical care .
@Markonline: incorrect . One side tried to advertise this as an abortion ref . Anyway I respect everyone’s beliefs and it appears the majority have the belief woman in this country are more than capable of choosing their own healthcare decisions . I also respect those that put there opinion out in public but not so sure about anonymous people online spouting all sorts ……
@Dell: It was a very simple question that was put to the public, yet you still can’t quite grasp it. Why couldn’t we enshrine the right to have an abortion into the constitution?….no no that would have been too complex for you to vote for so now you don’t have to bother your little head about it and let others decide for you instead….maybe it is for the best after all if this is the level of foresight in this country.
@Darren moore: But that is not what was achieved….I agree that each situation is unique and can only be decided fairly by the individuals involved, but that is not what happened is it? Instead, the country has voted to let the government of the day decide the “law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy”….Hitler couldn’t have worded it better.
@mark online talking to people the way you are now doing in a condescending, self righteous manner and not truly listening is exactly why you and others made this a landslide victory.
This is a big blow for “the gammon heads” stuck in the 1950s Ireland. The more the Healy Rae , Mattie , Ronan Mullen etc appeared on TV the more they convinced the population to vote yes.
@Fergus Sheahan:
He’s right.
I don’t think such a marginal Yes vote would have been possible without the condescending behavior, question dodging and offensive replies from the likes of Maria Steen, Peadar Toibin, Mattie Mc Grath and Ronan Mullen. Intellectual suicide on national television.
@Jimmy jones: the no side has been lying through their teeth again and again so where was their style and grace then? Don’t get me wrong, no need to open champagne bottles if the yes wins but some of the stuff the no side has said… they don’t have my respect – will respect them in the result of the referendum but note they don’t deserve much of this respect imo
@Toki Wartooth: just cause you believe they behaved badly doesn’t give licence for you to do so, we all live in the same country and have to get along…rise above it, there are bad winners as well as bad losers
@Tweed Cap: you clearly didn’t watch the CB debate. Steen and Dr Monaghan were clearly the most well informed and capable debaters of the campaign, across the TV debates anyway.
@Toki Wartooth: horrendous. Seeking to marginalise a huge swathe of the population. God help the next generation if the mini socialists get into power.
@Jimmy jones: they lied, lied and lied…you think misguiding electorate is OK? Fair enough then…. and note also I don’t plan to celebrate anything, I have more respect than the one displayed by some of the no voters
@Fergus Sheahan: well said Fergus, humble in victory is a noble thing and people should look now to move forward together and not further wedge a divide with some caustic jibes like gammon.
@El Diego: I remember watching that debate the no campaigners did “win” it, but lets be clear they didn’t win because they had the better argument. They won it with brute force. The no campaigners in the audience on the night acted disgracefully and all steen did was shout.
Monaghan showed about as much empathy towards crisis pregnancies as snake does for a mouse.
But saying that the referendum is over (nearly). It might be good idea for some people that are bitter with the result (I’m hoping a minority of no campaigners) should probably stay away from social media for few days and try not saying inflammatory comments if unable to do so, does no one any favors except make yourself look like a fool
@Celtic_Horizon: it’s great that yes won but nobody can deny that some people on both sides acted horribly. Hopefully people accept winning gracefully , not that there are any winners really, without having to go and tear down the other side. We won, time for the fighting to end.
@Mickey Fennessy: it was passed democratically now lets look forward, in what way would a witch hunt be in anyway beneficial other that to serve your selfrigheousness?, that poisonous hatred when both ways
@Celtic_Horizon: you used the word “win” not me. I certainly am not bitter. I’m not a religious bigot and I am in favour of abortion for hard cases just not on demand. My conscience is clear. It’s the sad Yes triumphalists and angry atheists (equivalent of bible bashers) who need to stay off social media.
Ireland has shown it’s not being dictated to by the Catholic Church any longer after the marriage equality vote and now what looks like a resounding yes (judging by the exit polls).
I’m savouring my coffee this morning with no bitter aftertaste.
@Keith Synnott: good man. Put a bit if sugar in it for the lost lives over the next few years. You do realise that this was a vote on abortion and not the Pope’s popularity. The angry atheists seem confused this morning.
@El Diego: incorrect. Where does it state abortion on the 8th amendment? I’m quite aware it will mean a new law will be put on front of the dail to be passed on abortion but at the moment, the 8th is about the rights of the unborn.
@El Diego: cop yourself on, no-one is demanding anybody have an abortion but it’s about bloody time that the choice for women is there, if they need one they can have one in their own country, if they don’t want one, don’t have one, no-one is being forced, it’s called CHOICE !!!!!!!!
@El Diego: I’m neither an atheist or angry but you keep labelling and pigeon holing people sure, it’ll do wonders for you . I’m actually very happy today and anyone that respects a woman’s right to determine her own future will be too.
@Daniel O’Hara: did you not read the proposed legislation? You should have read it before you voted to remove the protection of right to life to our unborn.
@monika it was this kind of hyperbolic claptrap that made so many yes voters not engage with the love boats. You may have had some chance of changing people’s minds if you were a little less inclined to be so judgmental and plain old nasty to deal with.
@Keith Synnott: unfortunately for you Keith you sought to make a religious point out of what was a moral debate. Just so you know, 74% of those who voted yesterday declared themselves as RC yesterday. You should thank the members of the RC Church because they delivered the Yes result.
@El Diego: The church have been preaching how good Catholics must vote no from the pulpit leading up to this so my point is very valid and not unfortunate.
Mullen, Iona, Steen and the rest have been consigned to the wrong side of history.
The vote is a massive mandate for change, the fence sitters in the Dail need to realise that a sea change has occurred.
@DJ François: It makes me wonder how Ronán Mullen keeps getting elected to the Seanad. How transparent is that process? Is the counting done in public?
@Jack McGready: But it would seem her views are in tune with the majority, so graduates electing her makes absolute sense. Graduates electing Mullen seems to make no sense.
The women of Ireland wake to a new dawn. There’s more that needs to be done. I hope this victory gives them the strength, courage and determination to continue the fight for the issues women feel are necessary to improve their lives.
Without a doubt a yes vote… I feel it appropriate to divulge I voted no as I comment to be open and honest.
Lets truly hope the resultant legislation does indeed address the true crisis situations as passionately presented correctly by the yes side and stops short of abortion on demand as feared by the no side and which is also not what was advocated by the yes side as presented.
@Ken Maycock: look at all the other European countries…life goes on, kids are born and loved…you live in a better country today, I really hope you see it like this during the coming months.
@Ken Maycock: it is abortion on demand Ken. That’s what was voted for yesterday. Other countries are trying to restrict their abortion laws we’re introducing liberal abortion on demand allegedly for the “hard cases”. Not the solution.
@El Diego: We can but hope the legislation that is ultimately ratified and passed through the dail in coming months stops short of abortion on demand as feared by NO side, myself included, and denied by the YES side. Either way, the sooner the terms YES side and NO side vanish the better…. compassion was unfortunately lost in some aspects of this debate. Compassion needs to be brought back amd put inwaveringly at the forefront of every discussion about this topic.
@Ken Maycock: Once on-demand abortion is in, it will take another generation to restrict it to hard cases only. Damn this stupid government for making the choice a simple yes or no.
@Martin Flood: i hope you’re wrong but I share your fear. If the draft legislation presented as the alternative was narrower and focused on the true crisis situations then the referendum would have passed with a near as makes no difference 100% agreement.
@Toki Wartooth: Trolls up early today. What I have is said is 100% the truth of what I feel and believe. Lets keep this discussion respectful and compassionate, lets remember whats going to happen as a result. Happy to engage in discussion….. consider anything else ignored
@Ken Maycock: it’s as if the no side thinks without a restriction in place the country will descend to into chaos and every women will thoughtlessly have a abortions for fun.
@Seth Cheffetz: They’re you’re words not mine. You can be sure, with abortion on demand, there will be abortions for reasons that would go against our own moral beliefs regardless of where you ait in this discussion. I absolutely appreciate that decision is likely the most difficult that’ll be taken in that ladies life and I 100% empathise and wouldnt wish anyone to be in that situation.
I agree with choice in crisis situations as very well presented by the YES position, incest/rape/fatal abnormaility etc. I dont agree with choice carte blanche… and Im sure thats where we disagree.
@Ken Maycock: well said and I agree. Unfortunately the government have likely missed their chance to legislate for those hard cases. I hope that the majority in the Dail push on that Head 7 but given that FG worded that through Noone I don’t see that happening.
Fantastic result but it’s not something to celebrate, laugh or cheer about. It will not be a happy experience for any women to have an abortion here or elsewhere
@Deborah O’Lorcain: It’s absolutely something to celebrate – Ireland has given women autonomy over their own bodies. And while ‘happy’ may not be the right word regarding abortion, for many it will be a blessed relief. I respect that.
@Deborah O’Lorcain: Exactly, it’s not something you celebrate or start cheering about, you can be happy about it, but jumping up, clapping and cheering about it in public is not appropriate for this one, some serious morons out there in fairness
@Negan Lucille: I bet when the result is officially announced their will be people jumping up and down celebrating. I for one will not be calling the morons.
@Deborah O’Lorcain: I agree with you! It’s a bittersweet victory. Yes finally many women will be able to get help that they truly need but let’s not forgot that it’s also the loss of a life. I cannot celebrate that.
@Deborah O’Lorcain: I am celebrating for pregnant women who will now have the right to informed consent to medical procedures undergone whilst pregnant – a right denied by the 8th.
@Deborah O’Lorcain: Exactly. Too many people treating this as some kind of competition. Not appropriate to celebrate in the streets for this one. Sure its great that women have a choice now but lets not forget that children will also die because of this. But I’m sure the repeal jumper hipster brigade will be out in force anyways for the party
@Ciarān: well said Ciaran 100%. Ignorance is bliss. I sincerely hope that we don’t turn around in 3/4 years time like UK/US and think, how do we control this? A life is lost with every procedure. That’s some cross to bear. The hipsters will realise this when they reach the age of parenthood.
@Ciarān: “repeal jumper hipster brigade” how wrong can you be? 1000s of doctors and midwives and others that work with women day in day out and actually know what the 8th means came out for yes. It’s not some fashion, it’s real peoples lives.
@Deborah O’Lorcain: Its a pragmatic decision but we still haven’t adressed why so many woman have crisis pregnancys. This isnt winning its just dealing with the realities. Well done for showing a little bit of class which has sadly been missing from the debate.
@Ciarān: agree..It’s really saddening how far removed these people are from the reality of the trauma of abortion, to be celebrating like they are is really upsetting for those who have had abortions, it’s truly a tragic, awful experience to go through that I wouldn’t wish on any woman. It seems to be about ‘winning’ for a lot of them and a reaction to the past and the reign of the church rather than a realistic look at what abortion is. If euthanasia was brought in (which I fully support because it’s that person’s choosing and their own body NOBODY else’s involved) I doubt there’d be people drinking and partying. Very weird.
@Ciarān: I just saw someone post a photo on Instagram saying ‘we are the champions’ which proved to me that some people really did just see it as a competition and it’s really disappointing to see.
@sam harms alternatively they have been taking massive amounts of abuse for months while working towards achieving a goal for women to have control and a say in their own reproductive health and they are celebrating same. I see nothing wrong with people celebrating this at all. No one is celebrating abortion and if you think they are, you really got this whole thing completely wrong.
@Dell: people can celebrate respectfully without saying stuff like we are the champions. There’s no need to gloat or rub it in the face of people who voted no.
@sam harms they must be awfully fragile if that Is too much for them. Why the hell should they not express happiness anyway they want? For crying out loud do people want to control that now too?
Hard to believe it, really. A few months ago I would never have thought that Ireland was ready to vote in such an emphatic manner to legalise abortion. This is pending legislation of course, but with such a likely clear majority yes vote, it surely can’t be stopped now. Well done to our politicians, this was always going to be a gamble once it was not just about the hard cases, but the gamble paid off. Not a time to gloat, as a strong yes supporter I always fully understood the position and arguments of the no side, despite disagreeing. I think we all have friends and family members on the opposite side, and I genuinely feel for them now. But we had to do this in my mind, it was no longer an option for things to continue in the way they were.
Ireland has come out of the dark age where the Church ruled every fact of life. No more will it hold such a sway in Irish life, the Pope is coming to a different nation and for those who will go see him it’s their choice s free choice like the women in Ireland who will no longer have to travel to Britain for an abortion.
@Mick12: I think you are a logical person so follow the logic. Ireland was a tremendously influenced country by the Catholic Church, hence the 8th amendment. The church is losing support everywhere because we live in the 21st century now – and because they have been involved in too many scandals also, with children included!!! – hence the 8th amendment has been voted and it is gone. I am all about religion but not when it dictates critical functions within a society. Now you can say I am an atheist socialist murderer of babies if that makes you feel OK diegito
@Toki Wartooth: mr so smart in your own view, murdering children has NOTHING TO DO WITH religion or any church; but it has everything to do with ethics, morals and compassion, which are (clearly not in this nation) the very essence of humanity. You are so obsessed with the Catholic Church agenda that you all yes voters didn’t mind to condemn innocent ones to death. You condemn the Catholic Church for raping children, yet you voted to kill children yourself, so how are you any different, how are any better??? Shame on you all!
@monika shame on you for equating the life and health of a woman to that of a foetus. See how this works.. We could be going over and back with the dishing out of shame but that is and was always pointless. It may make you feel better but it will change nothing for anyone else.
Abortion preys on the poor, it’s sad to say but the most vulnerable in our society will use this new arrangement the most. What an awful day for this nation.
@Rambon: sadness will pass. You live in a better country today, hopefully you will realise about this in the future when you see that people keep on having babies and loving them. To think that women will abort just for the craic is a bit of s stretch and even if a minority do it think about the greater good this will bring for other cases.
@ el Diego it’s significant only in that it means that it is a significant minority. If the exit polls are right, we are now living in an ireland that doesn’t allow the likes of you to dictate over women in crisis situations anymore. Long live this Republic.
@Ciara Dowling: What has that got to do with abortion? Research has shown that women with suicidal tendencies are actually less likely to go through with suicide if the pregnancy is carried to full term than if the baby is aborted.
@Rambon: really is that why you see women on social welfare with 4 or 5 kids yet working women who desperately want a family but cant afford to are waiting until they financially settled and can support a child.
@Dell: I don’t dictate to anyone Dell. We’ll leave to to Leo (imprison women or Vote Yes) and Mary Lou (Vote Yes or be disciplined). I’ve always been a repeal person, for hard cases, as you would know if you ever read my posts. I’m not in favour of abortion on demand. I just hope you and the other Yes voters are happy with Head 7 in 3 years time as this is what you have voted for.
@el Diego You don’t get to decide which are “hard cases” and which aren’t.. You don’t get to decide who can and can’t have an abortion based on what you believe are good enough reasons… That is what I voted for and I’ll always I’ll be glad that the likes of you will never have a say over my body autonomy or my sisters, daughters, nieces or friends. I voted so that someone who uses the phrase abortion on demand when talking about someones personal situations and choices doesn’t have any kind of influence or say in whatever they do. I’ll never regret that.
@C_O’S: No. Im sure she was much more than a victim of bad law and medical negligence . Let her family and friends remember her for who she was. I hope this might bring a little comfort to her husband.
I genuinely had started to believe it wasn’t going to happen despite the positive feedback we were getting when we were leafleting and canvassing. We were in the city and we were told that it was far more promising than down the country. Well done rural Ireland. I Haven’t been on here, been out canvassing but have been checking in. Well done Francis, the risen, evie and all those who dealt with the lies and hyperbole on here. Oh and Tom Burke, wherever you are, I took your advise and got off my fat behind, thanks Tom, people like you made this happen.
Good morning,Dell :) We had two Yes votes from my household.They were for my daughters,sisters,cousins and every other woman that wanted to have that 8th amendment removed from our Constitution…No need to thank me for annoying those people on here :)
@Dell: morning. 3 votes in my house and 5 from the legion of women from next door also. It’s great to see that those who stuck their necks out at the beginning and took loads of abuse in the Dail and on the streets had their hard work and perceverance pay off.
So happy and relieved this morning that compassion, courage and respect for the decision making of women in distress, has won the day decisively at long last.Respect to the leadership of Simon Harris, Micheal Martin and Mary Lou McDonald during the campaign.My first campaign in this country was lobbying to get rid of corporal punishment of children in our schools, this result is similar in many ways, for a kinder ,more inclusive Ireland.
I voted yes, but I am ashamed of some of the behaviour of the yes voters using this as a new opportunity to mock and jeer ordinary decent religious people, I believe that extreme Liberalism is very dangerous and can be used as a vehicle to destroy our very unique irish values,
@Porter Mechanic: I voted yes reluctantly because I don’t agree with unrestricted abortion but i know people who voted no and none of them were for religious reasons. More often than not it was the yes side bringing up religion rather than the no.
@Dell: not everyone in the country is represented by groups who were canvassing. I voted yes but never once engaged with anyone about it because I wanted to make up my own mind. The people I know who voted no didn’t engage with those groups either and are the least religious people I know.
I voted yes but still remain opposed to abortion in general. If as the no campaign suggested that there is a better way now more than ever they will have the opportunity to show people what that is. They now can offer women a choice while we as a nation need no longer pretend that abortion doesn’t happen. Time to heal the rifts and for all concerned to work to make women’s health the best in the world.
it’s a heart warming day to be an Irish woman. I worked as a student midwife when Savita Halapanaver tragically lost her life and it never left me. I don’t think it ever will. thank you Ireland for doing the right thing I’m helping future generations of women make their choice. #forsavita
Voted No. Am No holy man here last time I was in church was a wedding. The only rights up to 12 weeks a perfectly healthy child has now is dependent on its mother.
Maybe its the spectrum of society I see, but I don’t trust people. There will be the FFA and the victims of rapes, the woman who makes this choice once in her life through a mistake, the ones I can agree with.
Then there’ll be those that revisit this repeatedly, those couples that choose not to have a child with a slight disability and those who’ll choose to terminate due to the lifestyle choices a pregnancy brings.
This will be borne out in the statistics which I think will be delayed by design.
@Albert Brennerman: if someone’s decides to have an abortion due to life style choices how is that any of your business? Morals are personal and you have no right to impose yours on anyone else. If someone feels like they can’t have a baby for reason such as they cannot face life as a single parent, financial reasons or it will trap them in a bad relationship then that’s their decision to make. Not yours
I now worry about the mess that’s going to be created when the gov try and legislate for this, lets be honest good legislation seems to be rare in this country recently more a case of seen to be doing something rather than addressing difficult core problems.
I wait to be surprised.
Why do the left have such a hard on for abortion? Even as an atheist I think it’s a pretty disgusting and immoral act that devalues human life. It’s disturbing we’re at the point that society considers women being able to scrape a fetus out of their womb a fundamental right so they can go out and indulge in consequence free casual sex as much as they want. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
we are fortunate to live in a democracy ,the decision has been an emphatic yes ,the will of the people must be respected .i will always have my reservations but i am glad the result is beyond any doubt .
I’m at the count center in Roscommon. It’s going 58%Yes. RTE had their main media here with Catriona Perry reporting. They were expecting Roscommon to go No as the only constituency to vote against Equality. But now It is more likely to be Donegal or Longford that could possibly go No, where the vote is much closer.
I voted yes and as such am pleased at the outcome. But to be honest I felt this referendum brought out a petty and at times nasty side in a lot of people. The reductive, childish attitude of people discussing it really reminded me of arguing in the primary school yard. If you were voting yes that meant you were a godless lefty who delights in the killing of babies, if you were voting no you’re were a compasionless religious zealot (who probably thinks that recent scandals in the church were no problem at all). Never any acknowledgement that for many people it wasn’t a black and white issue. It’s so easy to assume you’re right and righteous and those with an opinion different to yours are wrong and evil. But it’s never that simple and if we lose the ability to truly debate and empathize then more and more division is sadly inevitable
Let’s have accurate reporting by The Journal. Constituency names don’t equate to Counties e.g. parts of South Donegal are in the Sligo/Leitrim constituency and tallies are saying they have voted in favour of repeal!
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