Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
Updated 8.20pm
THE SO-CALLED Islamic State group has claimed responsibility for a fatal attack on a Christmas market in Berlin.
Yesterday a lorry ploughed into the market, killing 12 people.
Through its Amaq news agency, the terrorist group called the attacker a “soldier of the Islamic State”.
Earlier, the Pakistani asylum seeker arrested after the attack was released due to lack of evidence.
“The accused, detained over the attack on the Berlin Christmas market on 19 December, 2016, was let go on this evening on the orders of the federal prosecutor,” authorities said in a statement.
The forensic tests carried out so far did not provide evidence of the accused’s presence during the crimes in the cab of the lorry.
As the shellshocked German capital reeled from the country’s deadliest attack of recent years earlier today, doubts emerged over whether the man detained overnight actually committed the atrocity.
Berlin’s police chief, Klaus Kandt, had said “we may have a dangerous criminal in the area”, and announced that security would be boosted while urging “heightened vigilance”.
German newspaper Die Welt first reported from police sources that the culprit may still at large and is armed and dangerous.
“We have the wrong man,” Berlin police are quoted as saying by the newspaper.
Twelve people were killed and almost 50 wounded when the truck tore through the crowd yesterday evening, smashing wooden stalls and crushing victims, in scenes reminiscent of July’s deadly attack in the French Riviera city of Nice.
Speaking earlier today, Germany’s Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere told journalists the arrested man had “denied the act”.
De Maiziere confirmed that the detained man arrived in Germany on 31 December 2015, seeking asylum.
Despite the blow to the investigation, De Maiziere said: “We have no doubt that this terrible event was an attack.”
Angela Merkel
German Chancellor Angela Merkel said ”according to what we know, we have to assume this was a terrorist attack.”
Merkel, visibly moved and dressed in black, told reporters:
I know it will be especially hard for us to take if it is confirmed that the person who committed this attack sought protection and asylum in Germany.
Before that revelation that the man arrested did not carry out the attack, Merkel had said that if the attack was carried out by an asylum seeker it would be “particularly sickening in relation to the many, many Germans who are involved every day in helping refugees”.
She added it would also be repugnant “toward the many people who need our protection every day and who are working on integration in our country”.
Merkel said she personally was “horrified, shocked and deeply saddened” by the attack and would visit the site later today with the interior minister, Thomas de Maiziere, and Berlin Mayor Michael Mueller.
She pledged that German authorities would “get to the bottom” of the assault and that it would be “punished with the full force of our law”.
The arrival of 890,000 asylum seekers last year has polarised Germany, with critics calling the influx a serious security threat. Another 300,000 people have arrived this year.
Investigation
An MP for Germany’s CDU Party and a member of the German Parliament Foreign Affairs committee Roderich Kiesewetter said nobody has taken responsibility for the attack yet, but as far as German intelligence is aware, there is an Islamist background to it.
In a Twitter message the police service said it was carefully investigating the “probable terrorist attack” in which a truck was driven “intentionally” into a crowd killing 12 people and wounding dozens more yesterday evening.
“Our investigators assume that the truck was intentionally steered into the crowd at the Christmas market,” the police said in a Twitter message about the suspected attack late last night.
The Polish-registered vehicle, which was loaded with steel beams, had cut a bloody swathe of 60-80 metres into the market in the once-divided city’s inner west.
At least six of those killed were German citizens, authorities said, while countries from Israel to Spain said their nationals were among those injured in the busy tourist spot.
A Polish man, killed with an gunshot, was found on the truck’s passenger seat, said de Maiziere. He was believed to be the vehicle’s registered driver.
A German newspaper is reporting that the now released suspect was arrested with the help of a witness who followed the man after he fled the scene on foot.
The Die Welt daily said that a bystander said they saw the man jump out of the cab of the lorry after it had ploughed through the crowd.
The anonymous witness then trailed the suspect for about two kilometres, while staying on the phone with police to keep them informed of his location, according to the report.
‘Blood and bodies everywhere’
Ambulances and heavily armed police rushed to the area after the vehicle mounted the pavement of the market in a square popular with tourists, in horrific scenes reminiscent of July’s deadly truck attack in the French Riviera city of Nice.
Australian Trisha O’Neill told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation she was only metres from where the truck smashed into the crowded market:
I just saw this huge black truck speeding through the markets crushing so many people and then all the lights went out and everything was destroyed.
I could hear screaming and then we all froze. Then suddenly people started to move and lift all the wreckage off people, trying to help whoever was there.
O’Neill said there was “blood and bodies everywhere”.
Irish reaction
Taoiseach Enda Kenny last night condemned the attack as a “barbaric attack” and extended his condolences to the families of those killed.
“Our thoughts are with those injured and their families. Any Irish citizens with concerns should phone 00353 1 4082000,” he said.
With separate terror incidents occurring yesterday in Ankara, Turkey, and Zurich, Switzerland, Kenny added his condemnation for those attacks also.
“I condemn the callous murder of Russia’s Ambassador to Turkey and offer condolences to Ambassador Karlov’s family,” Kenny said.
I condemn the cowardly attack on worshippers at prayer in Zurich this evening. These acts of violence have no place in society and constitute an attack on our fundamental values.
A statement from President Michael D Higgins also offered condolences to the victims of all three attacks:
As President of Ireland I wish to convey my condolences to the families of the victims of these acts and the solidarity of the people of Ireland with all those affected by the violence. I wish all the survivors and their communities strength and confidence in these difficult times.
Separately, Minister for Foreign Affairs Charlie Flanagan described himself as “horrified by the loss of life” seen in Berlin.
“Ireland stands in solidarity with Germany,” Flanagan said.
Speaking about the Berlin attack, Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald said that it was an attack “on freedom itself”.
“This appears to have been an attack not just on people innocently going about their business preparing for Christmas, but on freedom itself,” she said.
Our values of democracy and liberty are the target of those who wish to see a world of dark tyranny imposed on us all.
‘Safer than Paris’
Traditional Christmas markets are popular in cities and towns throughout Germany and have frequently been mentioned by security services as potentially vulnerable to attacks.
“It’s awful. We were in Berlin for Christmas,” American tourist Kathy Forbes said. “We also thought it would be safer than Paris.”
The crash happened in the shadow of the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church whose damage in a World War II bombing raid has been preserved as a reminder of the horrors of war for future generations.
The square is at the end of the Kurfuerstendamm boulevard, which was packed with holiday shoppers.
Police said the truck made it as far as 80 metres into the Christmas market before it came to a halt.
High alert
Europe has been on high alert for most of 2016, with terror attacks striking Paris and Brussels, while Germany has been hit by several assaults claimed by the Islamic State group and carried out by asylum seekers.
An axe rampage on a train in the southern state of Bavaria in July wounded five people, and a suicide bombing left 15 people injured in the same state six days later.
In another case, a 16-year-old German-Moroccan girl in February stabbed a police officer in the neck with a kitchen knife, wounding him badly, allegedly on IS orders.
The attack in Berlin comes five months after Tunisian extremist Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel ploughed a truck into a crowd on the Nice seafront, killing 86 people.
In response to the suspected attack in Berlin, France beefed up security at its own Christmas markets.
“The French share in the mourning of the Germans in the face of this tragedy that has hit all of Europe,” President Francois Hollande said.
The Nice bloodshed – as people were watching a fireworks display on the Bastille Day holiday on 14 July – further traumatised a France already reeling from a series of jihadist attacks.
The United States labelled yesterday’s incident an apparent “terrorist attack” and pledged its support.
President-elect Donald Trump blamed “Islamist terrorists” for a “slaughter” of Christians in the German capital.
Additional reporting by Cianan Brennan, Cliódhna Russell, Rónán Duffy and Órla Ryan
Polish media interviewed truck company owner from Gdansk, driver was dropping delivery in another part of Berlin he wasn’t going to be near scene of attack. Driver is missing without contact and feared dead. There were mixed reports of body being found in the truck but other reports don’t confirm that. Truck looks to be stolen from him anyway. Genuine man doing his work with couple children and wife waiting at home for his return home for Christmas. Never mind other 12 killed and many more injured. So sad.
Transport company examined GPS and after 15 o’clock someone tried repeatedly turning on and off the truck then she disappeared from gps and came on again moving. Then went off and on again. It looks like someone was trying to learn to drive it – professional driver wouldn’t be doing that as there is alternative system for likes of heating.
@Tomasz Kuchnik: He was found dead in the front of the truck, thats what i read. Berlin couldnt wait to announce the driver as a ‘polish man’ – party politics now playing a role in the facts surrounding islamic terrorism.
I know they were happy to blame polish as it was polish truck – hard and inconvenient reality hit them after, as situation unfolded and appeared that polish man is dead and it’s one of their imported doctors or engineers (or maybe 30 years old child) actually killed the people. Disgraceful attempt to tarnish actual victim…
Islam is not a race.
Throughout the centuries? We are not in the dark ages anymore. Let’s just deal with the now, yes*
Alan I don’t blame all Muslims for this attack but to say it has nothing to do with Islam is ridiculous. We have to be honest about the cause of these attacks and be able to question some of the teachings in Islam without being called racist.
Germany welcomed those people into its country and this is what happens. Throw them back to where they came from if they don’t like where they’re living. Ingrates.
@jane: Yes jane but making it just about Islam is another deflection. Of course it plays a role, but how are we to know if this man was not radicalised by a drone strike or something? It allows us to ignore other possible reasons.
@alan scott:
The word “racist” has been abused by people like you to the point that it’s now been rendered completely meaningless. A few years ago I would have been horrified to have been accused of being a racist – now it’s just like water of a duck’s back. I read a comment like yours attempting to label others as racist and just think “yeah whatever….”.
@Beachmaster: Maybe you’re just incapable of getting the wider picture . . .
@Beachmaster: So in your opinion, nothing other than this mans religion can be behind his action?
*you
What a degenerate thing to say
Excellent comment. @thewalkingbread
@alan scott:
“Islam is nothing got to do with it”
I’m sure the religion who’s primary texts calls for the subjugation or murder of all those who do not bend the knee might have something to do with it:
“And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing… but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun(the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)” – Quran (2:191-193)
@Meanderingsz:
“Berlin couldnt wait to announce the driver as a ‘polish man’ ”
What are you talking about??
condemn all they like, they don’t care. they can easily find out now if he’s from pakistan, they’ll tell you they’re all from syria and ferry rides over too if you don’t mind. merkel is gone, there won’t be enough liberals to save her.
James Paterson: he’s right in what he said, if you read deeper into German tabloids and general way of reporting in past year or two, you can clearly see they are very reluctant to acknowledge / publish crimes that have been commenced by refugees. Or if so they try to minuscule the issues and swipe under the carpet as much as they can. Same in Sweden or Norway. This reflects their current government politics and situation they’re in as to how to deal with this unexpected problem and of course coming elections. It would be much more convenient for many people at power in Germany if this was polish guy driving this truck – let’s face it. Thankfully polish don’t have religion or tradition supporting of mass murdering of people…
@Tomasz Kuchnik:
Time to charge the supporter leaders, like politicians and the media of the multicult immigration policy with treason and negligence endangering the lives of their nations. If found guilty they deserve life in jail (deserve a lot more).
Immigration politicians, media and NGO’s – BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS.
What about the ongoing terror attacks against Europeans. This is not ISIS this is islam.
MERKEL’S SHAME: Map reveals shocking extent of migrant sex attacks on women and children
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/742717/Migrant-asylum-seeker-refugee-sex-attack-rape-assault-Germany-map-Angela-Merkel-Cologne
@Tomasz
Nobody was blaming the Polish driver in the German media! Where did you get that from?
Matt Beaumont: yes they were, as you know they way of writing something may be suggesting something or not, some German sources published shortly after attack large titles like “polish truck ploughed into crowd of people” or “truck driver was polish”. There are many screenshots on polish Reddit to confirm. Then this is cheeky way of reporting, as they can always say they didn’t specifically say attacker was polish. But using titles and slogans like that , it tends to imply things. And for average person reading it appears as if murdering criminal was actually polish, which couldn’t be farther from true. Germans always use that kind of rhetoric when it comes to Poland, research a bit how they use words “polish concentration camps”. There is article on Wikipedia about it “polish death camps controversy”. I don’t want to stray too much with this from the subject, but without knowing background of German reporting it’s hard to explain that to you better. Maybe I’m bit more sensitive here being polish than you are, but trust me there is long history of German biased reporting towards polish people. While most of it we can just brush off, then when it comes to serious things like death camps or reporting on mass murder act – it hurts.
They Didn’t blame Polish . just told a fact . I didn’t read anywhere where anybody blamed the Polish truck driver.get over yourself.
@Michael J: That is exactly what ISIS want…
@Tomasz Kuchnik: Latest reports say that this was an act of terrorism, the truck was hijacked and Polish driver was shot and stabbed in the vehicle cab. The truck company confirmed that the victim was the owners cousin.
What we don’t yet know is if the Pakistani refugee lifted by the police was in fact involved as he is denying it. Meanwhile the Berlin Christmas Market remains closed
@jane: Muslims are all the same
Look how they treat women and children
They care more about religion than their family’s we have all seen the horror they put there family through just to keep their honor and respect for their religion
@Terry McSweeney: Do you read both Polish and German then? Impressive… If not I’ll give Tomasz more credence. Police forces and the media do have an agenda of covering up the identities and motivation of jihadists as much as possible. Anyone remember the Norwegian who ran amok with a knife in London a while ago?
@Cowboy Paddy: No, IS want you to submit, convert or die.
@ryan3939: No, they’re not all the same. There are liberal and secular muslims, mostly in the west, who genuinely believe that Islam can be reformed/reinterpreted to be compatible with fundamental human rights as in the UN Declaration of Human Rights.
Within muslim countries, there are many people who call themselves muslims because the punishment for blasphemy or apostasy is, unofficially or officially, persecution, social isolation, imprisonment, death.
Most muslims around the world have never read the Quran any more than most Christians have. Many of them hear nice quotes from it like ‘There is no compulsion in religion’ etc and simply assume that that reflects reality. The Quran is not an easy document to understand even for those who do read it.
If you want to hear a former convert describe how this can work, listen to this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR7_YQ53lfI
Making overly generalized, bigoted comments about a couple of billion people, many of them children by the way, simply provokes the useful idiots into remaining in their corner of supporting the Islamists.
Wrong guy maybe? That would-be do-gooder bystander will face some awkward questioning.
Them protestants. Up to no good as usual?
@Jason Culligan: what does your point prove do you think? It proves that you’re an idiot that’s what – lets examine another religion – Christianity, Jewish etc here is the old testament… btw religion is just a vehicle for extremists… there are millions of Muslims and only a small percentage who are Islamic extremists. You’re a just populist bigot.
Here are some nuggets from the old testament:
But if this charge is true (that she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21
About not believing in God
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. Deuteronomy 13:7-12
Working on the sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15
@Old Gabby Johnson: And if Jews or Christians were currently stoning women for premarital sex or apostasy or working on the Sabbath that might be worth discussing. Meanwhile back in the real world, there’s a reason why some muslims are killing people today for premarital sex, apostasy and blasphemy. If you bothered to learn anything about Islam you would know why that is.
You obviously don’t know anything about Islam so you insist on name-calling and changing the subject to hide your own ignorance. Like every other lazy apologist.
@Old Gabby Johnson:
“there are millions of Muslims and only a small percentage who are Islamic extremists”
Hundreds of millions. What small percentage are we talking here?
@Old Gabby
I’m not religious but even I know that the old testament is supposed to be a portrayal of what the world was like before Jesus came along and reformed it.
@beachmaster. Which particular religion would you be referring to.? I’m curious because the only indiscriminate attacks ever carried out in this country were carried out by the protestant UVF and was left uninvestigated by the government of the day and all successive governments. So, please do elaborate
@John Brendan Mullen: How very parochial of you.
Wow! The racism on display here is shocking.
@Petr Tarasov:
Where?
@Marlowemallow:
Oh no you didn’t!
That will be the tone. Don’t forget.
@Petr Tarasov: Which race would that be then???
Bulls*&t. So, no time 2 match up dna from cab. So no blood spatter, only means switched drivers. Eye witness said this guy is exit truck. Ganz scheisse poltizei.
The point is that all religions have such examples from ancient past- just because some choose to interpret the meaning a certain way it does not sully the whole group of people who are part of that religon.
The great christian USA with the UK have killed mpre in the middle east than isis ever could.. if you examine the origins of isis and the leaders they use islam to further their aims- not because they’re religious zelots they use religon to convert the disenfranchised- blaming the religon is a cop out and makes us feel better to put people in boxes.
@Marlowemallow:
You should hear some of the stuff that comes out of the mouths of young Muslim children in Irish schools…it’s not from the sky they get it.
Btw look at israel actions and tell me that they are non violent in the pursuit of their aims.
@Old Gabby Johnson:
Old Gabby emerges from under the rock I see…the brainwashed, middle-eastern muslim woman trapped in the body of a European man.
Piotrek i suggest you keep your fantasies to yourself! Lol.
@Old Gabby Johnson: The quote from the Quran is not from ‘the ancient past’. It’s written down in a book that you can buy and read right now. One that is quoted in mosques in Ireland right now. You have no idea how to properly interpret it because you don’t know anything about Islam and refuse to learn.
Religion motivates people. It’s extremely offensive to all religious people to claim that they are simply being manipulated by some shadowy leadership to further entirely non-religious aims. Back when Europe was actually Christian (it’s now a minority belief by the way) most Christians also believed in the literal truth of god, heaven and hell. And it motivated and guided their daily behaviour. Islam is no different and it is inverted racism to suggest that it is.
@Piotrek Król: That is worrying but not surprising. We know there are jihadists right here in Ireland and of course for each active jihadist there will be a larger support base of more or less sympathetic fundamentalists. Do you happen to know how Irish schools deal with such issues? At a wild guess I’d say they brush it right under the carpet and move along.
@Old Gabby Johnson:
Not all holy scriptures claim to be the infallible word of god though. I would consider myself atheist so I agree to some extent your perception of religion in general. To look at them on an individual basis and be willing to consider the difference in a historical and present day context should not be considered bigotry.
Charlie many christians believe the bible to be just that- evangelicals especially. Bigotry wasnt assumed among all only the person i directed it at. His comments on women, pro-trump etc etc qualify him.
@jane: While all Muslims did not send him out to do it the fact remains that Muslim scriptures command violence and claim to be dictated by God. All muslims are indirectly responsible as is the likes of Pope Francis who lies that religion is always about peace. He knows fine well from his Bible that Moses and Jesus would have laughed at that lie. At least the Bible does not hide how dangerous religion is.
Evil will continue to thrive where the good stay silent.
German police now saying it was an asylum seeker from either Pakistan or Afghanistan let in last year.
Good people are labeled as racist
Good people are also labelled as terrorists. It’s the nature of debate these days that every discussion appears simplistic and binary and so it develops a combative “if you’re not with us you’re against us” attitude.
@Tony Canning: The vast majority of people do not label all Muslims as terrorists.
We do however point out that they are backward, their nations demonstrate this very succinctly.
If you think that, you must be new here…
@Tony Canning: Can you direct me to an Islamic nation which is the equivalent to any western nation in women’s and gay rights ?
No ?
Can you point to one without laws against leaving Islam ?
in a turn of events, say if 1 million did come over and integrate, thousands highly qualified and more talented than here, it might give the liberals a good run for their money, let them battle it out for jobs with people better qualified than them, put them out of business.
@Tony Canning:
Watch Tony Canning equivocate, try to minimise and divert from immigrant violence and aggression. If it were Christians he would not be beating about the bush and would be full of focussed criticism about Christianity.
He is a full on supporter of the destruction of European populations through demographic dilution which eventually leads to Europeans being minorities in their own countries.
What about the ongoing terror attacks against Europeans. This is not ISIS this is islam.
MERKEL’S SHAME: Map reveals shocking extent of migrant sex attacks on women and children
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/742717/Migrant-asylum-seeker-refugee-sex-attack-rape-assault-Germany-map-Angela-Merkel-Cologne
The express?!
@Tony Canning: Well said Tony but you are fighting a losing battle. TheJournal comments section is a cesspit of racism, hatred, and nutty conspiracy theory.
@Tony Canning:
You’re right Tony. When people like ayaan Hirsi Ali are labelled hatemongers it kills any reasonable discussion.
@Charlie Fogarty: Hirsi Ali is a bigot and a hater.
@stephan doing his usual of “the best defence is a good offence” by trying to paint someone in a certain light without just addressing the point.
Duh! Of course it was a terrorist attack….. The driver, from Pakistan, had stolen the truck in Poland earlier on in the day.
He was from Afghanistan.
Their shared border is….. fluid
@Peter Buchanan: Non-existent, more like.
Buster cutting right to the crux of the matter.
He’s just been named as a 23yo Pakistani asylum seeker – arrived in Germany this time last year. Perhaps the journal’s bleeding hearts (Fiona et al) would like to comment…
@Avina Laaf: Do we know anything about what this man experienced in his home country that could have led him to commit this atrocity or shall we just keep it simple and blame Islam?
@Neil Mcdonough:
“Do we know anything about what this man experienced in his home country that could have led him to commit this atrocity or shall we just keep it simple and blame Islam?”
Nothing excuses what he did.
@Neil Mcdonough:
What did Germany do in Pakistan??
People like you are a huge part of the problem Neil.
@Jason Culligan: Who’s excusing anything? Or is not following the herd accepting simple explanations of ‘Islam wot dunnit’ excusing it in your book?
Islam is ‘wot done it’. He didn’t do it because of communism, capitalism, reggae or the price of onions. So yes, we can be very reductive and say it was directly because of his Islamic jihadist culture.
@Avina Laaf: Hah! lol . . . I’ve had nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of this mess, but all I see is a rise of the right and a rush to label one group as ‘them’ and how they threaten our very existence. That might not be seen as a problem with potentially a horrendous outcome for everyone to you, but it does to me, and I like to do my little bit now and again countering the false narratives we find all the time on this site.
@Greg Blake: Yeah, keep it simple Greg, it doesn’t require any thinking at all . . .
@Neil Mcdonough:
When ‘them’ means Islamic extremists (as opposed to innocent moderate muslims) then it seems perfectly reasonable to label them as a group.
By your logic an angry Berliner would now have a perfectly valid reason to take a flight to Lahore, or Karachi, or Islamabad and mow random people down with an AK47, or set off a bomb in a crowded market, or drive a truck into a crowd of innocent people.
@Neil Mcdonough:
“I’ve had nothing whatsoever to do with the creation of this mess”
So explain your logic to us there Neil.
Further down you’ve claimed that the West’s intervention in the Muslim world is a primary cause for this atrocity and others like it. If you live in a Western country, and Western civilians are justifiable targets because their countries were responsible for attacks in the Muslim world, then you are also responsible for this by your own logic.
You can’t have it both ways. You cannot say that ‘Islam isn’t the problem, it’s Western foreign policy’ and then turn around and say ‘oh I have nothing to do with what’s going on’. You’re basically saying that everyone is fair game because of politics except for you.
@Jason Culligan: Instead of trying to twist and turn and obfuscate, do you agree that intervening militarily in other countries is likely to inspire retaliation? You’re saying ‘it’s Islams fault only, whereas I’m not forgetting there are always two sides to a story at least, so if you want to debate, do so fairly. Good day . . .
@Neil Mcdonough:
Islam has spread by conquest, islam has tried at various stages to conquer Europe all without provocation.
And how do you account for the 1400 rapes of white British girls by Pakistani muslims and 1000s of others, as well as the 1000s of rapes around Europe by muslims of European women and girls?
Is that a retaliation to some zionist backed illegal bombing which the liberals supported by backing Hillary?
On yer camel ye liar.
I’m sure Neil you can construct a better account for these actions that require much more ‘thinking’? Maybe some mickey-mouse open university sociological explanation that blames it all on the victims, after all, they were engaging in a western consumerist practice embedded in a western quasi-religious festival, that this custom is part responsible for causing the alienation that created the terrorist. Being overawed and inspired by some clown-theorist worshiped on Sociology courses does not necessarily make one a thinking person, try use your own brain a little. Sometimes the answer is obvious, and the answer is Islam. Simple!
But by your logic Neil, the west would be perfectly justified to attack muslim countries based on previous islamic conquests of western countries.
@Neil Mcdonough:
In case you didn’t know, the very fact Africa is undergoing a boom in population is down to the very same missionaries who set the foundation for medicine, aid, education programmes in those countries.
Africans were killing, raping, enslaving and eating each other long before Europeans arrived and actually built the modern infrastructure they have today.
Without Africans there would have been no Atlantic slave trade, and don’t forget it was Arabs who enslaved over 100 million Africans.
And let us for a moment imagine that Europeans did not go to Africa, then you think it would have been left alone? No, the Arabs and perhaps Chinese in that vacuum would have colonised it and treated Africans far far worse, in fact Africans might have become near extinct under them. Today Arabs and China enage in modern commercial colonialism of Africa for which Africans express a preference for the Europeans.
Now, how much do you want to express your hate of Europeans and the white man, while expounding love for every other race, who in your world view are angelic.
I suppose its about time someone said it. The west is best. No arguement needed , no proof required. Just read a history book. Greek philosophy and sculpture, roman law, Rensaissance art. Shakespeare. Nothing else like it. Anywhere
@Kevin Slater: China, Japan and India have had extraordinary civilizations. Chinese classical civilization also achieved a far longer lifespan than western civilization has to date. The Kingdom of Benin in West Africa was extremely impressive for its time before the jihadist invasion. I certainly prefer western civilization, flaws and all, to anything else that currently exists but I view respecting the achievements of other cultures as one of the better parts of western civilization.
Such overwhelming evidence from posters here, it’s a pity the German police haven’t read them as they had to let the Pakistani go because of lack of evidence
@Boganity: I couldn’t care less if it was a Pakistani or Afghan or German. The important point is that it was almost certainly a jihadist who doesn’t view himself as a member of an nation-state but rather as a member of the ummah – the global religious community of Islam.
@Avina Laaf: “People like you are a huge part of the problem Neil.”
On the contrary, without decent people like Neil there would be mob violence perpetrated against European Muslims.
@Marlo I’d check the skin on your scalp if I where you as you’ve totally missed what I said: AT THIS POINT IT WASN’T ANYONE as the police have no suspects
@Boganity: Crimes don’t become non-existent merely because police have not yet arrested anyone. Therefore perpetrators are not non-existent before they are caught. Do get a grip. It’s more than reasonable to speculate based on the evidence that even the journal is reporting that this was, like Nice, an attack motivated by Islamic jihadism. Therefore the perpetrator is almost certainly a muslim. That is, after all, the only sine qua non of being motivated by jihadism.
No they don’t, not does the conclusion come before the evidence is gathered
And BTW the Journal is not a news site the articles are not written by journalists so referring to their content as “evidence” is madness
@Boganity: I don’t get my news from the journal. Anyway, since you useful idiots always disappear when an attack is proven to have been motivated by Islamic jihad your whining about people jumping to conclusions is obviously motivated by your apologist agenda rather than any respect for facts.
@Petr
I have no intention of committing mob violence against any innocent muslim, however unlike Neil I rocognise that islamic extremism presents a huge threat to western society as we know it.
@Avina Laaf: Do you think Western imperialism present a danger? Does killing hundreds of thousands in Iraq, destroying the infrastructure, and dismantling the state — creating the vacuum for ISIS and others — present a danger, or is it just an unwise policy choice?
Yeah, but the Russians must have hacked into the brain of the Pakistani and made him do it.
Pethaps, just perhaps, after a few more attacks like this, we here in ireland can start to have a genuine adult debate on the immigration issue. Not a polarised “banthemall/notallmuslims” shouting match but a rational discussion on this issue which was untouchable in this years elections.
Unfortunately it seems so few politicians are willing to cast a critical eye on the issue without risking cries of islamaphobe from the outraged. This to the point where the bogus halawa case and its dodgy clonskeagh
mosque connections will not be debated by our public figures in deference to
tolerance.
I hate to say it but its prob going to need an equivalent attack here to just start the critical debate
It seems that what the Islamic movement want to do is to draw a line through the middle of the world, and call the two sides ” good” and “evil”. Everyone will be assigned to one side or the other based on whether they are Muslim or “other” religion. Then a jihad will be conducted until there is only one side left.
Developments in the world in the last few decades lead me to believe that there is no God, Or if there is, he/she has absolutely no say in the affairs of man-kind.
@john, unfortunately, I fear you are correct. For some reason, here in Ireland, politicians believe that we are somehow different from the Swedes, or the Norwegians, and they would not turn and attack us.
@anthony I don’t think this is true because the 2 major branches of Islam have been fighting killing each other for centuries.
There is no immigration issue in Ireland, more so a gangland issue, lots of young lives destroyed
No we have pot holes and water charges we get really exercised about trivia but world shattering news we’re exempt.
I’m interested to know what exactly the rational points are. So far as I can see we’ve suffered no such attack and have seen more death in eastern Europeans in Ireland through in fighting. Oh and of course the gangland stuff and homegrown terrorism. Genuine question….
@Red Marauder
I’m sure they were saying the same thing in Sweden, Belgium, Germany and elsewhere not too very long ago. What makes you think Ireland will be any different?
not if 10 attacks happened here, they’d still let them in. they’re coming in by the week presenting themselves for asylum and not turned back.
@Tony Canning:
You do not do genuine questions, you are here to promote multiculturalism and pretend to be the so-called moderate who supports some border control. You don’t all your arguments always apologising for immigrant crime while attacking natives, proves that.
Pakistani asylum seeker. In Europe less than a year. Known to police for minor crimes. He will get a nice human rights lawyer and make sure his rights are protected whilst in custody.
The lid is kept on this due to the enormous levels of welfare dependency of Muslims in Europe. The celebrations will probably be epic in the ghettos
@Hugh Mannatee: Probably colm o’gorman from Amnesty.
Welcome to the new Europe. It’s a lovely place, just make sure you’re back indoors before dark.
The influx of so many migrants has caused a massive security risk. Muslims are turning our cities into theirs.
Liberals are responsible for this. They demanded Europe let in asylum seekers. I wonder will any of these journalists lose sleep
No they’ll just lie low till next child’s body is washed up on a beach in Greece or Italy and start the process all over again.
@Superfiends: Liberals are responsible for everything in your mind.. You can’t even make a post without mentioning them or something to do with the left. Get off the internet for a bit. It’s making you crazy. extremist muslims and American foreign policy was responsible for this. No one else.
No Rob. Liberals demanding Muslims free access to Europe with no surveillance to this. Shame on you and your kind.
@Superfiends: WTF do you mean my kind?? Just because I disagree with the Alt right nut jobs here I’m a liberal.. Some of us don’t do extremes and stick to the centre. Both sides have good ideas but they bath have a lot of really bad ones too. Can you post without mentioning the left or liberals?? Grow up FFS.
@Rob Cahill: All those who disagree with me are Nazi’s, all people who criticise Islam are Racists.
All Muslims are peaceful, all circular logic is good.
@Rob Cahill: The problem is that the centre ground is remarkably quiet except when something extreme happens. Where are they out protesting about taking in unvetted and unvettable migrants from jihadist conflict zones? Not a peep.
We have Muslim Brotherhood controlled mosques in this country. Where are the ‘centrists’ demanding that something be done about that? Gulf States that fund jihadism fund mosques, travelling preachers and probably Islamic schools here. Where are the centrists doing anything about any of this?
At best, centrists are all talk about supporting secularism or opposing all fundamentalism or whatever. Talk is cheap. It’s the fact that they do absolutely nothing effective that tells the truth about how seriously they take these problems.
And then they pop out of the woodwork to take on people whose only actual wrongdoing is making overgeneralizations about all muslims. That gets ‘centrists’ all hot and bothered. Not a certain mosque on the South Circular Road that you’d rather not know anything about. The centre are ethically bankrupt right now.
@Marlowemallow: “It’s the fact that they do absolutely nothing effective that tells the truth about how seriously they take these problems.”
You think the mouthpieces on here are being effective??? Also if you think the only thing the extreme alt right are guilty of is making overgeneralizations about muslims then you are wrong. I haven’t read anything about any mosque but if they are doing something wrong then they need to be stopped.
@Superfiends:
Well in your mind Right Wingers are responsible for all the ill of the world!
@Rob Cahill: Do you know what happens to people who stage protests outside mosques known to support Islamist extremism? Why they cover their faces while doing so? Or what happens to people who gather to organize a street protest against islamization of European societies? Why do you think so many of us here are anonymous? Are you even aware that we have Irish Islamists right here posting on the journal?
Listen, it’s the fact that you ‘haven’t read anything about any mosque’ that is the problem. Your ignorance is deliberate. You’re a few keystrokes away from the information. You don’t want to know.
‘They need to be stopped’ – this is the empty verbal noise I’m talking about. It’s that passivity that always has and always will allow the most intolerant to change society. ‘Someone really should do something about it’ is not an answer. It’s cowardice.
@Marlowemallow: Fair enough, Show me the proof there are Islamic extremists posting on this website.. Because from here it’s alt right conspiracy theorists and crazy Christians.. Oh and Val with his tin foil hat.. But prove me wrong with some evidence if you have it.
Was it worth it, Angela?
Well done to our “heroes” in the Irish navy who are providing a free taxi service for even more of these “refugees”.
@Eamon Mac Gowan:
You can’t blame the Irish Navy. As with any military service, they do what the government orders them to do. Level the blame at the Irish government who assigned them to the task.
I wonder when the next article about Katherine ‘I wanted to take them all home with me’ Zappone or Ibrahim ‘I was only on holiday, not inciting pro-Islamist rallies’ Halawa will be published.
@Jason Culligan: They’ll give it a week or so. People have short memories.
I hope this will finally wake Europe up to the danger that Merkel and the Globalists have put us all.
Don’t forget the 1.5 million in Turkey wait till we upset Erdegen and he opens his borders.plus the 75 million Turks who now have visa access to Europe and our politicians wonder why there is a backlash against the establishment.They are either totally incompetent or don’t care.
@Eamon Mac Gowan:
1400 young girls gang-raped by Pakistani muslims in Rotherford, and 1000s more around UK, didn’t. Instead the British are becoming a minority in Britain.
Hopes this wakes you up to the fact the European peoples are more concerned about their own welfare and as long as they have a house, xbox, football and incidents only affect their neighbours, the frog will continue to slowly boil to its death.
What do all the apologists have to say now? Will you still make excuses & defend your executioners even as he puts you to the knife?
@Matt Donovan: Most will, yes. Some will only change their minds when they personally or someone they know suffers the consequences of their actions. Like the Irish apologists here. They will refuse to act to prevent the emergence here of the same integration problems the rest of Europe has experienced. Let alone acknowledge that it already exists here.
There’s a serious absence of empathy there for the people who will experience those problems first – young, poor women (see Rotherham etc), especially those who rely on public transport, LGBT people, apostates, converts to Christianity, liberal/bad muslims, blasphemers, Jews, Hindus etc. As long as they’re ok they really couldn’t care less.
Angel Merkel has blood on her hands!! My condolences to the families of the dead. So sad and tragic!! R.I.P Savage callous act!! Time to close our borders!!!!
@June Rose-Sommer: I think Germany and Austria are headed for civil war over this, not closed borders. About half the population of each is so terrified of being called a Nazi that they will roll over and die first. The other half will get progressively more enraged at being sacrificed to that collective masochism. This is the perfect storm for Germany and Austria at this point in their histories and I’m afraid I can’t see a happy ending.
These attacks are designed to alienate Muslims from the Western World. It’s a recruitment tool, designed to promote hate of Islam in western society. Judging by the comments here, a country that hasn’t suffered a terrorist attack form anybody but Christians, it’s working.
go back to bed for yourself
Trouble seems to follow Islam..
@david. Sure, it will alienate Muslims. So what will “the vast majority of peaceful Muslims” do about it? . Do nothing.. Say nothing..
Alienate Muslims ! be honest David they do a very good job of it themselves don’t assimilate retain their medieval backward ways and generally replicate their failed countries in ghettoes throughout the West
@david. Why??
@David completely agree. Rage is the enemy here. These terrorists want division. Only division and fear will aid their cause. Unfortunately the more emotional and intellectually challenged will need more time to see it that way.
Nice victim blaming, David and Mairtin. Should we say the same about rapists? Women should not rock the boat in case good men become rapists out of sympathy with the sickos.
I understand what you are saying. But think harder. If we all wrap Muslims in cotton wool now then we allow more of these terrorists to come in. By putting pressure on decent Muslims we will have a better chance of weeding out the wolves in sheep’s clothing. These people are in their communities and mosques. They have an idea who they are. I guarantee there are German Muslims today thinking they saw this coming from him but said nothing.
I never said attack Muslims. I attack Islam. It’s hateful ideology and sinister motives. Islam has to change to be allowed in a mainly secular Europe.
The usual, all thumbs no answers….
@David: No that is not what they’re designed to do. IS have told you over and over again as clearly as they can, why they do this. There are people in the world who really, really do believe in their religion. All you need to do is get your head around it:
“In an article entitled ‘Why We Hate you and Want to Fight You’, the 15th edition of the terrorists’ periodical Dabiq spells out why the jihads are hell bent on destroying the West…
…1. Because you are disbelievers
“We hate you, first and foremost, because you are disbelievers; you reject the oneness of Allah – whether you realize it or not – by making partners for Him in worship, you blaspheme against Him, claiming that He has a son, you fabricate lies against His prophets and messengers, and you indulge in all manner of devilish practices.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/why-hate-you-isis-reveal-8533563
@Mairtin Cathbhar: Their cause is the imposition of a global caliphate ruled by sharia.
Eliminating the ‘grey zone’ in which European muslims live is one strategy towards that goal. Another is killing lots and lots of infidels and getting the rest to submit in terror. Firstly to sharia blasphemy laws in the form of restrictions on ‘hate speech’ and internet censorship, of course.
They have centuries to achieve their goal and they’ve made good progress over the past 1400 years. And no doubt there were pagans in Medina in the 7th century preaching the same masochistic response that you are here.
In fact, if you read the Quran, you can hear those unfortunate pagans through it repeating the same frogs in boiling water ‘debates’ that the non-muslims of western Europe are now engaging in.
Pakistani “asylum seeker”. Last i checked there was no war in Pakistan. Came during the influx late last year when Merkel opened the gates.
Hopefully that woman pays for what she has done to her country. An election defeat is not enough. A public hanging would be more appropriate.
@Fred Johnson: A desperate atrocity has happened but Germany is still the richest economy in Europe and one of the safest places on earth, except of course in the doom laden fevered imaginations of those who rarely get out from behind their keyboards . . .
@Neil Mcdonough:
Listen would you feel safe in a German christmas market now? If you were a young girl would you feel safe in an area with a lot of illegal migrants?
Merkel has sacrificed German sense of safety in their own country on some fools errand. She is stubborn to admit that taking in millions of young adult Muslim migrant males from parts of the world that we know produce terrorists that hate the West was probably not the best idea.
@Neil Mcdonough:
A foiled bomb plot and a successful attack with a truck. I wouldn’t class Germany as very safe in public areas right now thanks to Islamic terrorism.
ah but he probably experienced something in aghanistan then went back over the border, in fear of something, sounds like a good excuse to mingle in with refugees.
@Jason Culligan: I get the feeling that you would love a really big war . . .
@Neil Mcdonough:
I get the feeling you’re suffering from a significant case of White Guilt. I wonder which one of us is right.
@Jason Culligan: I’m suffering from reality, something the willfully blind don’t have to worry about :-)
You’re suffering from wilfully ignoring reality Neil.
Thanks is the end of Merkel.
Barbarians. When will enough be enough?
@Magnus Diccus: When will there be ‘enough is enough’ of western military interventions in the muslim world? Not justifying anything but if for example, Hollande can declare war on IS, then it is to be expected that some muslims will retaliate no? You can join in the increasing descent towards conflict by accepting the ‘them v. us’ narrative or not, depends what kind of future you want for your children . . .
Ah give it a rest, man. The poor people that tramp flattened never intervened anywhere.
I’d like a future for my children that doesn’t include adherents to a toxic ideology murdering them
@Magnus Diccus: Course they didn’t, but you know that’s not what I meant.
@Neil Mcdonough:
“Not justifying anything but…”
You’re justifying it, stop trying to sugar-coat it. Either have the stones to admit that you’re providing a justification for terrorism or don’t try to justify it.
Nothing excuses murdering an innocent family man, stealing his truck and driving it into a packed crowd of innocent people who are trying to enjoy what is supposed to be a happy period in their lives. Nothing.
when Soros and the gang who control the worlds banks says theres enough, then there will be enough.
@Jason Culligan: You’re showing signs of desperation there Jason . . . but what the hell, it’s the journal.ie, where right-wing nutters come for a bit of a group love-in . . .
If you bomb their children they will try kill yours
@Neil Mcdonough:
You claim that I’m showing signs of desperation and then resort to smears instead of arguments. You might want to do some introspecting there Neil. You have no argument and you’re trying to back out of it while preserving your ego. At least have the self-respect to admit it or provide actual arguments.
@Ronan Gallagher:
Who is Thailand or Argentina bombing exactly? They have experienced Islamic terror attacks as well. In fact many countries suffering from Islamic extremism have nothing to do with interventions in the Middle East.
Would you blame a rape victim if she was wearing a miniskirt?
@Jason Culligan: You’re argument is one-sided and you clearly don’t like your right-wing ‘Islam is to blame’ mantra being exposed to some uncomfortable truths. Again, good day to you . . .
@Ronan Gallagher:
Nonsense, this is what mohammadanism is about. The koran and all their other “holy” writings teach to conquer the kuffar (non-muslim) which means going into their countries to conquer them.
Europeans put up with 400 yrs of Mohammadan attacks into eastern Europe before launching the Crusades to defend themselves and protect pilgrims who were being butchered, raped and enslaved.
Mohammadans made several attempts of conquering Europe all without provocation, you might remember Charlemagne who stopped them conquering Europe at the battle of Tours-Poitiers.
this is islam, it is a conquest ideology, you would be experiencing attacks without any intervention in the middle East.
The modern day crusades are going on the middle east since before the Iraq invasion. Pull all troops out of the middle east. Close Europe’s borders. Kick all unvetted and those unwilling to asymilate out.
@Neil Mcdonough:
“You’re argument is one-sided and you clearly don’t like your right-wing ‘Islam is to blame’ mantra being exposed to some uncomfortable truths.”
What truths? All you’ve said is that Western foreign policy is to blame. When I pointed out that countries such as Bangladesh, Argentina and Thailand also suffer from Islamic terrorism you started to fling out insults and accuse me of dodging the truth.
Your sole point has been ripped apart mate.
@Ronan Gallagher:
Hey Gob Sheite: The last time the Germans dropped a bomb on anyone was in 1945! So explain to the Germans wtf they did to deserve this? I can answer you that! Their only crime is that they are not MUSLIM, they are on the whole Western Christians! So the “dropping bombs” line of justification which is thrown out all the time by you fu%&ing Lemmings is pure utter lefty liberal BS. First of all, Islam or Muslims are not a race! So, if I drop a bomb in Afghanistan what gives a Pakistani , or a Saudi or a Somalian MUSLIM the right or justification to drive a truck through a crowded western city street in reply? Fkn NONE! Take yr head out of your ass!
Lemming. Lefty liberal . I don’t think so. Nobody mentioned race either. Why don’t you quit the insults and tell us how you are going to take on the Muslims? Go away and hide in your auld ones attic
@Warthog: It’s irritating but as long as someone is willing to say this: ” Close Europe’s borders. Kick all unvetted and those unwilling to asymilate out”… it might be best to let the rest go.
The ‘liberal-left’ has a very bad habit of demanding ideological purity. Anyone who wants to change Ireland and Europe’s current left-influenced insane immigration and integration policies should take the opposite tack and be willing to work with anyone who will support the concrete policies that are needed. Even if they would still rather talk about imperialism than Islam. It’ll do.
When it finally comes down to a toe to toe conflict, yes, it is always “them and us”.
You dont negotiate with the enemy. Chamberlaine tried appeasement allowing Herr hitler to have as many bits of Europe as he wanted.
Churchill kicked hitler in the nuts.
Sometimes enough is enough
How many Muslims will stop practicing this hateful ideology because of this attack. Very few if any. In Ireland people voted with their feet when the abuse scandal in the Catholic Church unfolded. People stopped going to mass and being practicing their faith. It’s nice not to have the threat of death if you stop practicing catholicism. Not the same can be said for Islam. Why are Muslim refugees not sent to Saudi Arabia Qatar etc? I would happily welcome any Christian refugees. These are the people who are really persecuted in the ME. They will also not try mass murder which is more than helpful
@Colm Quigley: The child abuse by priests is a symptom not a disease. A man made religion gets too much power and respect for human authority and has no real power to change human nature for the better with its magic sacraments and prayers. Catholicism is guilty of lying about history and psychology and science and thus is not the servant of truth it pretends to be.
They are targeting Christains at Christmas. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/12/19/one-dead-lorry-plows-berlin-christmas-market/
This should help La Penn win and get Merkel out.
Did germany bomb Muslim count?
@Patrick Gough: Who knows they are in Afghanistan and they are certainly part of the American led Coalition in Syria as are all the following: United States Australia, Bahrain, The Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Jordan, Morocco, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Canada. That makes all of them a legitimate target to a lot of Muslims every bit as much as the Russians i.e. the Ambassador and the Airline brought down over the Sinai. Nothing justifies killing innocent people no matter who they are or where they are from. The vast majority of these people are coming to Europe to escape war. But your not allowed say that
Apologists for acts of Islamic fundamentalist terror place no value on the lives of their fellow countrymen, women and children.
Another radical Islamic terror attack. You can say most Muslims don’t support this. But in almost all Muslim countries, converting from Islam to another religion is a criminal offence, including getting the death penalty in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia.
This was a terrible and hateful atrocity. It was an appalling act of savagery. It was a consequence of extreme hate.
Germany gave sanctuary to almost a million refugees. Sadly and inevitably in such a large group, there will be a small minority who have a terrorist agend. This small number needs to be identified by profiling and by scrupulous intelligence gathering.
The vast, vast majority of refugees just want to rebuild their lives, protect their families and seek safe and secure places to live.
It was a terrible disaster when the US and the UK invaded Iraq on the pretext of WMD. It destabilised the region. It caused the birth of ISIS. It relit Jihadism.
Of course there as aspects of Islam and especially some of the more extreme sects of Islam which allow it to be used as a religious reinforcement of terrorist hate but we should not forget that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and law abiding.
Developing a relationship of hate with as many as 1.6 billion Muslims will be counter productive. The challenge is to identify the incipient terrorists and head off their hate driven agenda. It is also the case that effective counter measures against Jihadist terrorism will require the cooperation and support of the Muslim community.
Jihadists are the common enemy. It was a tragedy and a shame that it was the actions of the West which again unleashed Jihadism.
Maybe just maybe Micheal if they were vetted before being let loose around Europe then they could have been identified. I recall this rhetoric to be racist and bigoted at the time. Now people are waking up and wanting retrospective vetting. Well done the pc brigade.
I have one question to ask you, Michael. Is your open border for Muslims agenda worth the massacre of innocent people?
Yes but Michael when terrorists drive over people in trucks or set off bombs theMuslim community is silent, someone draws a picture of Mohammed riots and protests all over the world
Separating terrorists from innocents is indeed the challenge Michael. If you have any good ideas on exactly how to do this perhaps you could pass them on to the relevant authorities.
@Micheal OLainn:
“It was a terrible disaster when the US and the UK invaded Iraq on the pretext of WMD. It destabilised the region. It caused the birth of ISIS. It relit Jihadism.”
Honest question, would you blame a victim of rape because she wore the wrong clothes and was ‘asking for it’? Of course you wouldn’t.
So why do you blame the victims of terrorism?
You degenerate dirtbag
@Magnus, wow, what an insightful comment
I’m angry, Larissa. I’m seething here this morning.
@Jason Culligan: Jason , Micheal would blame the victim he spends all his time defending his fellow muslims and their behaviour
@johnp: The Muslim community has been fairly vocal about condemning this since yesterday if you’d care to look, John.
@Jason Culligan: He’s not blaming the victims. But you’ve just shown how dishonest you are prepared to be to deflect from the wider causes of this crisis. Shameful.
@Neil Mcdonough:
It’s victim blaming Neil, pure and simple.
Not only that but it’s inaccurate victim blaming as well. If Islamic terrorism was caused by Western foreign policy then why is for example Thailand enduring an Islamic insurgency? Most Islamic terrorist organisations have declared both non-Western aligned countries and even other Islamic countries as valid targets for various ideological reasons.
Blaming Islamic terrorism on Western foreign policy is about as accurate as blaming a rape on the clothing of the victim. Both completely ignore the underlying causes and seek to excuse the perpetrator.
@feedmeseymor, please enlighten me where to search because I can’t seem to find it anywhere
@johnp: https://twitter.com/bahadr2142/status/811144276826607617
… and so on. REALLY not hard to find, John.
@feed me Seymour, yes the ahmadiyas have condemned this attack like they have all terrorist attacks. Of course ahmadiyas are also a persecuted sect of Islam not even considered Muslims in some Islamic countries and regularly terrorised themselves, and a few single condemnations off Twitter isn’t exactly a million man march is it
religion should be banned, time to get over yourselves and believe in yourself not others.
@Jason Culligan: You’re getting more and more desperate Jason. Would you state clearly once and for all that you believe that the west has done absolutely nothing to bring about this mess? Thanks . . .
@Neil Mcdonough:
How am I getting desperate exactly?
Multiple terrorist organisations have said that they attack the West because of it’s lifestyle and not it’s politics. Multiple countries which have nothing to do with Western foreign policy are undergoing insurgencies or suffering from terrorist attacks.
You have done nothing to justify your victim blaming except attack my points which have examples backing them up. Come up with one argument which proves your victim blaming.
@Jason Culligan: Side-step and deflect. Are you prepared to state unequivocally that the west, especially the British and Americans, has done absolutely zilch to create the mess we are in now? While your at it, you could also, just to qualify your first answer, state clearly that you believe that Muslims carry out these atrocities for purely religious reasons and in fact don’t consider their countrys getting the shit bombed out of them as any kind of possible motive to strike back at all. Thanks, in your own time . . .
Three questions Neil:
1) If western intervention is primarily responsible why are the vast majority of victims of Islamic extremism fellow muslims?
2) If western intervention is primarily responsible why do various countries with zero history of intervention find themselves targeted by Islamic extremists (eg. Bangladesh, Philippines, Thailand etc..).
3) If western intervention is primarily responsible why don’t we see Iraqi Christians or Syrian Yazidis attacking the west?
Is the common factor jumping out at you yet?
@Avina Laaf: Pointless arguing. This is not looking good at all. Believe what you want if it makes you feel better . . . goodies and baddies and all that . . .
@Neil Mcdonough:
To use your own words:
“Side-step and deflect.”
Why should anyone answer your questions when you haven’t raised any defense of your claims that Western foreign policy is directly responsible for terrorism.
@Neil Mcdonough: give us your take on honour killings , underage and forced marriage , death for apostasy , FGM ( not exclusive to muslims but medieval ) , women being considered less than men and not forgetting that every western Country with a sizable muslim population has has major problems with assimilation , the Brits ,French and Germans have all said that multiculturalism has failed which is something that we will have to contend with sooner rather than later
@Neil
I have no doubt that the actions of some western governments are why we find ourselves targeted at this particular point in time, but if you can’t see that the mindset and actions of salafist extremists (who believe they are duty bound to kill infidels, ie. anyone who is different to them) is the root cause of the problem then there’s no hope for you. These guys are a huge threat to the rest of the world and are indeed ‘baddies’ in every sense of the word.
@Avina Laaf: I would imagine that this is more of the case of an attack on western civilization rather than individual countries. What had a Canadian tourist in Jordon this week to do with any of this or tourists on a beach in Tunisia earlier this year. Nowhere is safe as long as the West panders to Islam countries and get involved in their poxy wars. Europe should immediately call a halt to the schengen open borders treaty and look towards protecting its citizens.
@Neil Mcdonough:
Again, lets get this straight! Islam is a RELIGION not a country or a RACE! So, according to you lot, because a country (Christian/Western) was involved in a conflict with a Muslim country, then all Christian/Western countries are fair game for terror attacks by ALL Muslims from all Muslim countries throughout the world? And these atrocities can be justified by the fact that a Western country was in conflict with a Muslim country. That is, westerners are being held responsible for what one western country did and are therefore legitimate targets? Have I got that right so far? You and others come on here and cry foul when people express a fear of Islam! You called them “racist” when as we already stated Islam is not a RACE! You also call them Islamophobes, which as you know is an “IRRATIONAL” fear of Muslims! But, based on and using your argument for justifying Islamic terror attacks it follows that all Western countries are right to hold the whole Muslim World responsible for the these same terror attacks? Again ,on that basis, it is ok for Western Countries to prevent all further Islamic migration into Europe, to send the ones that are here back to where they cam from and to continue to bomb the sheite out of all Muslim countries in the world!
Do not believe any such news from Germany!!! The Lügenpresse is alive and well and living in Germany!! They have the perpetrator!!
@June Rose-Sommer: There certainly is something odd about it. The leaked reason for why they believe they have the wrong guy appears to be that he denies having done it. Now if that were reason to believe you have the wrong suspect then just about everyone ever arrested would be set free immediately.
Religion is a pox on humanity. So many murdered because of the deluded belief in a sky fairy. If they existed, surely they’d have done something about it by now?
The vast majority of Irish and British people will sympathise with the German people, having suffered so much similar barbarism at the hands of the IRAs.
Tap . Will you give it a rest.
Beware fake news. The Germans will do as they please now to stop this looking bad for Merkel.
He was probably suffering from mental issues or a lonely misfit.
@D Fagan: According to German media, refugee volunteers, charities, social workers etc., the unmentionable habit some young migrants from places like Afghanistan have of engaging in group sexual harassment of uncovered women is the result of overcrowding in refugee centres and boredom. Giving them all X-boxes and smart phones has been considered as a solution. Dating consultants have been brought in to help them get some the non-violent way.
Being reported now that the man arrested as a suspect is the wrong person.
Russian diplomat murder blamed on foreign policy in Syria. Truck massacre blamed on refugee. Bit too simplistic. Yeah.
Occam’s Razor Kev.
Why are you calling them the ‘so called Islamic state’. We never refered to our own terrorists as the so called Irish Republican Army or so called Ulster Volunteer force. ISIS, Al Qaeda etc are practicing their version of Islam and any understanding of the history of Islam and the modern Muslim world shows that Islam has a serious problem with violence in the name of Islam. Suicide bombings against civilians is the most extreme manifestation but dont forget the killing and jailing of apostates, gays and atheists in most Muslim countries. Of course not all Muslims support these practices but enough do that its a huge problem.
http://www.faisalalmutar.com/2015/11/16/i-am-a-jihadist-and-i-am-tired-of-not-being-given-credit/
Stop importing Islamic terror… https://youtu.be/rGsFGvLNEGA
The presumption of innocent is quickly set aside by prejudice and hate.
Pakistani suspect released. He was innocent. The perpetrator is still at large.
@Micheal OLainn: It’s lucky we all support the concept of innocence until proven guilty. Nobody jumped to any conclusions.That was nice.
This responding of ‘shock’ at this stage is absolutely apalling. Im not shocked, how could anyone with an ounce of morality or common sense be shocked? Merkel isnt shocked, but she will not switch her position on this supposed migrant crisis and therefore she needs to go. Not even remotely religious and Im praying that of all the politics this year and next, her party is totally decimated and entirely more conservative immigration policies are drawn up immediately.
All these assumption based comments and now they have no idea who was driving the truck.
Those ISIS morons would claim the opening of an envelope!!!
Probably suffering from a mental illness.
Alley Ackbar savages at it again. Such pigs.
have your say