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Welcome to Budget day on TheJournal.ie.
Today we’ll bring you all the announcements from Michael Noonan and Brendan Howlin, as well as crunching the numbers on what it means for everybody’s hip pockets.
Leave your thoughts in the comments section, tweet at us (@thejournal_ie) or mail us on tips@thejournal.ie.
Is it an omen? It was a seriously icy start to Budget day 2016 this morning and temperatures aren’t expected to top 14 degrees as the day goes on. At least it’s unlikely to rain on the Noonan-Howlin parade…
It’s Peter Bodkin in the chair for the lead-up to today’s main game ahead of Michael Noonan taking centre stage at around 2pm.
We’ll be looking at what’s expected in this year’s Budget, bring you all the announcements as they come to hand and then pull apart the figures to work out what they mean to you.
The customary drip-feed of Budget leaks has already given us the shape of what to expect in this year’s announcement. Here’s a quick recap of what we (think we) know so far:
So the tax on cigarettes is probably going up, as it does almost every Budget, and another excise increase on booze has been mooted. But what else would you stick a tax on?
Dublin radio station Spin 1038 has been inviting readers to come up with their own ideas and there are a few solid suggestions rolling in:
Our reporter Daragh Brophy is on the scene near Leinster House, where gardaí are already getting ready for some action on the streets later in the day.
And those anticipated crowds are already starting to build. Well, sort of…
For the punters out there who don’t enjoy hearing politicians talking deficits and fiscal responsibility, there’s TheJournal.ie’s Budget Bingo 2016.
You can download your cards here to ensure this year’s tax- and spend-fest isn’t an entirely craic-free zone.
We know the price of cigarettes is likely to jump a hefty 50c per pack after the Budget, but is the talk about tobacco taxes all smoke and mirrors?
Our Dan Mac Guill delved into the facts behind the spin to find out how much difference tobacco taxes really make to smoking rates – and whether they actually bring in the promised cash for the government.
What would you do if you were Michael Noonan or Brendan Howlin and you found yourself with a spare €1.5 billion to play with? Besides lighting cigars with €100 bills, of course. That’s the question we asked our readers with Ignite Research’s People’s Budget.
Out of more than 5,000 respondents, the vast majority wanted the razor taken to income taxes and the cash to be splurged on the country’s creaking health system, as well as education.
There was a strong response when we asked what the one thing you wanted to see in today’s Budget. No prizes for guessing that USC and income taxes featured prominently, while others favoured better services over an extra fiver in their pocket.
One reader, Peter, had plenty to say:
They have me feeling like I’m getting a birthday card with a few quid in it today I DON’T WANT IT. Spend it on getting people off trollies, crime & homelessness. Withdraw legal aid for anyone who has used it twice. Reduce politicians salaries by 35% & let them pay the majority of their expenses just like the rest of us, we would then see who is in it to change the world.”
While Trevor Beale was more succinct:
Stop penalising someone that gets up in the morning to go to work!”
Yes, it’s definitely that time of year again.
It’s being widely reported this morning that free GP care will be extended in the Budget to cover older children, although the upper age limit isn’t clear.
The Irish Times says the measure will cover all children under 12, while RTÉ claims free visits to the doctor will be limited to the under-11s.
Our political editor, Hugh O’Connell, reports that it’s strangely quiet around Leinster House as it approaches midday given “the day that’s in it”. The number of protesters on hand has swelled by 50% though in the past hour. Here’s the view from the front line:
The car park on the Kildare Street side is mostly empty, with TDs and Senators still travelling up from the country this morning. RTÉ has set up its outside broadcast facilities in the portico leading into LH2000, the newer part of the Oireachtas complex. Outside the gates, the barriers are up and the gardaí are stationed but there was a grand total of three protesters there when we passed it a short time ago.”
It looks like this year’s Budget is going to sit somewhere between an election-buying “splurge” and a “marginal giveaway”, based on a quick international whip around in advance of the announcement.
The Financial Times’ Vincent Boland reports Noonan is expected to “add fuel to the fire” of a growing economy with the expected €1.5 billion stimulus:
As the feelgood factor becomes more obvious and with an election due by the spring, there is arguably nothing the government needs to do as it prepares to go to the polls.”
Over at the Guardian, Henry McDonald writes that “prime minister” Enda Kenny’s government is “widely expected to introduce the first marginal giveaway budget since the crash”.
Meanwhile, Bloomberg’s Joe Brennan reports Noonan will “fire the starting gun in the nation’s election campaign as he unveils the biggest budget giveaway since the Celtic Tiger era ended”.
Premier Enda Kenny’s government has won kudos from German Chancellor Angela Merkel to President Barack Obama for leading the nation out of its worst recession on record, bringing the public finances under control and falling bond yields. With voters largely unimpressed, his coalition is set to further stoke the fastest-growing economy in the euro region even as Kenny promises prudence.”
Not much on the Twitter machine today from Ireland’s political leaders as the Budget storm clouds continue to gather. Even Sinn Féin’s social media-loving leader has been remarkably quiet since last night.
This in the comments from Frainc Ó Broin: “One extra bag of chips per year for me, a giveaway budget indeed!” But will it be Tayto or Hunky Dorys for you Frainc?
Thanks to the pre-Budget leaks we already knew an increase in the minimum wage was on the way, but further confirmation coming in with a “signing ceremony/photocall” to be held after the speeches are all done.
We know plenty about what WILL be in the Budget, but earlier this week Daragh Brophy had a look at a few things that definitely WON’T be there when he flashed back to Brian Cowen’s boom-time speech from a decade ago.
Billion-euro increases to welfare, €1,000 payouts for children under 6 and a huge pledge to take minimum wage workers out of the tax net altogether. Sure, what could possibly go wrong?
It appears the Fine Gael-Labour coalition is at odds about Alan Kelly’s plan to introduce rent controls (sorry Alan, “rent certainty”) as part of the Budget. The move has been flagged for months as accommodation prices, particularly in Dublin, continue to lose the run of themselves.
More from Hugh O’Connell on the mood in Leinster House, where one cabinet minister claimed it was a “terrific” Budget:
They’ve got almost everything they asked for and they were visibly delighted that the government is at last in a position to deliver something back to taxpayers. There’s definitely an optimism among government members this year compared to the fraught budgets of previous years where backbenchers in particular have grappled with their conscience, some deciding to defy their party, others deciding to suck it up and vote with the government.”
A few more highlights of what we can expect in just over an hour, aside from the headline cuts to USC and increases to some welfare benefits:
In non-Budget news, former Anglo CEO David Drumm will face 33 charges including forgery and conspiracy to defraud if he’s successfully extradited from the US to Ireland. Here’s a copy of the arrest warrant, which describes him as a “fugitive from foreign country”.
And this in from Waterford Whispers. We know how you feel Michael.
Peter is off to have some well-deserved grub so Sinéad O’Carroll here taking over for the last 30 minutes of speculation, guesswork and waiting.
Chat in the office right now while listening to Mary Lou McDonald on RTÉ Radio One:
Imagine if they abolished water charges.
Much of the commentary about today is how it will be a giveaway budget. And, it’s obviously harder to keep ‘good news’ under wraps while looking for votes.
All these leaks makes Budget Day a little less exciting for some, like Annie West above. It’s kind of like finding the Santa presents early, right? We don’t think there are any surprises left. Unless there is still a lump of coal hiding for us somewhere.
The Irish Independent is reporting that the recruitment of 600 new gardaí will be announced later.
After a terrible weekend for the force, it was almost too soon for the GRA to focus on low garda numbers and rural station closures but that will most likely be a welcome piece of news for morale.
Initial reaction from a GP about the extension of the free GP care scheme to children up to the age of 11 or 12… and it’s not positive:
Another tidbit from Hugh O’Connell in Leinster House:
One mischievous Labour TD says the Budget is so good that his former colleague Colm Keaveney, now of Fianna Fáil, is planning to rejoin Labour. We doubt Keaveney would look at it that way.
Our roving reporter Daragh Brophy was in Buswells this morning, the hotel located just opposite Leinster House to find out what being the unofficial hub of Irish politics means for its owners and management.
Budget Day though is often easier than protest days, as general manager Paul Gallagher revealed:
Another day, there was a demonstration against the removal of horses from county council lands out on the northside. They all came in with their Piebald ponies and things and hooked them all up to the fence outside. Some of them got scared, and the fence disappeared.
He has even been pelted with eggs himself, he points out. “So it’s an interesting hotel. I was standing in front of a guy I didn’t realise was behind me. They weren’t aiming at me. You have to be careful who’s behind you in this world.”
The final countdown…
The photocall is underway with Michael Noonan and Brendan Howlin.
Howlin, unsurprisingly, in the red of Labour (tie wise), while the Finance Minister has gone for a grey/silver option*.
*Someone in the office suggested it was champagne-coloured but that would be too Bertie for Noonan, we feel.
And the latest from Leinster House, where the lads are looking THRILLED with themselves.
The Budget documentation has arrived in Leinster House ready to be distributed to TDs, Senators and, of course, us journalists. Outside our office is a Department of Finance official nervously guarding the documentation until he can distribute it as soon as Michael Noonan takes to his feet.
Before the business of the Budget gets underway, the Taoiseach is expressing his sympathies and extending his prayers to the Lynch and Connors families, particularly the two children orphaned in the catastrophic fire in Carrickmines on Saturday.
Enda Kenny also speaks of the heinous crime which saw Garda Tony Golden lose his life in the line of duty on Sunday evening in county Louth.
Tánaiste Joan Burton also calls the weekend “horrific and desperate”, adding that the events in Omeath and Carrickmines were even more tragic because of the backdrop of what should have been a celebratory weekend for Ireland, with reference to sporting events.
This would be one way to win votes.
Following the Taoiseach’s words, Micheál Martin also mentions Garda Tony Golden’s GAA career with Stephenites in Ballina.
He commends him for his bravery and valour, noting that his last act was to help a vulnerable in the line of duty.
Gerry Adams also stands to pay his respects to the communities “numb with shock and disbelief” after the weekend’s events.
He names each of the victims of the Carrickmines fire and expressed condolences to the entire Traveller community.
“That solidarity has to be extended beyond rhetoric,” he adds, asking government to prioritise living accommodation for Travellers. He also mentions the homeless man who died in Dublin’s city centre on Sunday morning.
“He is a hero,” Adams says of Garda Tony Golden.
He also has strong words about the shooter, known dissident Adrian Mackin who also took his own life in the shooting incident.
Four years ago, so-called dissidents killed PSNI’s Ronan Kerr. His mother said we all need to stand up and be counted. We don’t want to go back to the dark days of fear and terror. She was right four years ago and she is right again today.
“These groups have nothing to offer society,” he added. “These people are the enemies of Republicanism and the peace process.”
However, there are some grumblings in the Chamber as the Sinn Féin president brings up the issue of alleged political policing among the PSNI and gardaí. He responds saying that these are questions for another day.
A sombre moment…
A minute’s silence is now underway in the Dáil as politicians rise to the feet to pay their respects to the 10 people who died in Carrickmines on Saturday and to Garda Tony Golden who was killed on Sunday.
“May they rest in peace,” An Ceann Comhairle Seán Barrett concludes.
About 30 minutes later than scheduled, Minister for Finance Michael Noonan has been called…
And Finance Minister Michael Noonan is on his feet to begin the Budget speech, getting a bit literary with his references to the 1916 Rising as he talks up the economic recovery since the government took office.
Peter Bodkin back in the driver’s seat here from Sinéad O’Carroll to take you through the Budget paces.
“Fastest-growing economy in Europe” – was that one on your Budget Bingo 2016 picks? Noonan got it out of the way early, setting out the Finance Department’s forecast of 4.3% economic growth in 2016.
“The economy has recovered all the output lost during the crisis,” the Finance Minister says, with an extra 43,000 jobs expected this year.
Want to keep track of all the major Budget announcements in one place? Cianan Brennan is compiling the information you need almost as soon as it emerges from the ministers’ mouths.
Click here for everything you need to know from the Budget speeches.
And there we have mention of the end of boom to bust policies, that old chestnut.
Noonan says Ireland’s national debt is expected to fall to just under 93% of GDP by end of 2016, below the European average.
Noonan says this Budget will include €750 million in “revenue relieving measures”, a cost partially offset by a single revenue-raising measure.
That would be the heralded 50c excise increase on a pack of 20 cigarettes, effective from midnight tonight. ”This is the only tax increase in this Budget,” Noonan adds.
And there’s the headline announcement, the expected cuts to USC.
The bottom rate of 1.5% will be reduced to 1%, the second rate from 3.5% to 3% and the next from 7% to 5.5%, while the bands at which they kick in will also be tweaked slightly.
Noonan said it was the first time since April 2009 the top marginal tax rate would be brought under 50% and it was expected some 700,000 income-earners would be outside the USC net altogether.
The tweaks to the tax brackets will mean a single-income family on €35,000 will take home an extra €57 a month, while those working full-time on minimum wage will have an extra €708 per year.
The inheritance tax threshold will also be raised from €225,000 to €280,000.
So wins all around for families, minimum-wage workers… and people inheriting money.
Noonan moves on to the tax perks for businesses, adding he has been consulting with the SME and startup sectors.
One will be a “new earned income tax credit” to the value of €550 for self-employed workers who didn’t have access to the PAYE tax credit and therefore paid significantly higher rates of tax.
“I see this measure as a first step and future steps will be made in future budgets as resources permit,” Noonan says, adding it would benefit small businesses, farmers and tradespeople.
Other business-friendly measures include a cut in the rate of Capital Gains Tax, down from 33% to 20% to a limit of €1 million on business assets that were sold.
The government is also extending three-year tax relief for startups for another three years until end of 2018, while the discount 9% VAT rate for the hospitality sector will also stay… for now.
Noonan notes the case for retaining the benefit in the booming Dublin hotel sector “is diminishing each year”.
Shouting and interruptions in the chamber as Noonan announces bad bank Nama will build 20,000 units by the end of 2020.
“Have you got a problem?,” the Finance Minister asks his opponents. They might have to finish this one behind the sheds at break.
The Institute of Technology, Sligo’s Students’ Union finding ways to enjoy themselves during the Budget speech here.
Public Expenditure Minister Brendan Howlin on his feet now as Noonan departs to applause from his government stablemates – and jeers from the opposition benches.
“The days of spending cuts are behind us,” Howlin says as he launches into the rhetoric, paying tribute to “the resilience of the Irish people”.
Howlin launches into a spiel about the ”unnecessary and cruel” cut of €1 per hour to the minimum wage under the previous government.
That’s the lead-in for him to announce the introduction of the predicted 50c increase in the rate, as recommended by the Low Pay Commission. So from January 1, the minimum wage will stand at €9.15 per hour.
So a bit of a recap as Howlin continues his spiel about the government’s spending plans. We had:
Howlin making the pitch to “hard-working parents” now, first off the block: childcare.
Free childcare will be available to children from the age of 3 up to 5 1/2, or whenever they toddle off to primary school.
Child benefit will also be raised €5 to €140 per month thanks to the government’s ”success in reducing unemployment”, Howlin says.
The government will also recognise the ”role of fathers in the household”, with dads getting two weeks of paternity leave from September next year.
And the next piece in the voter pitch, the extension of free GP care to cover all children under 12.
Although Howlin attaches a caveat to that plan – it’s ”subject to successful negotiation with the doctors’ representatives”. Hmmm…
This marks the next phase in the implementation of Universal GP care,” the minister goes on.
In case you missed it, here’s a recap of the Finance Minister’s “have you got a problem?” moment from earlier. You can take the boy out of Limerick…
More spending plans from Howlin: 600 extra gardaí will be recruited next year, while €414 million will be allocated to social housing.
However the minister has raised a few eyebrows with his priorities, allocating €17 million to emergency accommodation for the homeless, compared to €50 million for “extensive range of events” to mark the centenary of the 1916 Rising.
Howlin winds up with a few jibes aimed at the left-wing elements of the Dáil as he talks up the government’s emergence from the depths of the bailout.
“Who speaks of Syriza now?,” he says amid much jeering from rival TDs.
Fianna Fáil’s finance spokesman, Michael McGrath, on his feet now and he starts with a well-rehearsed one liner:
This budget is the final roll of the dice from a government that has run out of ideas and is about to run out of road.”
He highlights the 1,500 children sleeping in emergency accommodation and 500,000 on hospital waiting lists as among the government’s failings.
I could go on and I regret that I see nothing about his budget that will make a real difference to these people.”
That’s Peter signing off, for now. Sinéad O’Carroll taking over again as TDs on the Opposition benches get their chance to highlight what is wrong with today’s Budget.
McGrath continues… telling Brendan Howlin that his comments in relation to housing and accommodation were “nothing short of pathetic”.
In a speech highly critical of today’s “self-congratulatory” announcements, he says Ireland remains vulnerable because of the lack of stability in the global economy.
As McGrath continues his criticism, let’s have a quick recap of the main points from today’s announcements:
The reaction is pouring in.
Despite it being a so-called ‘giveaway’ budget, there is one group of people disappointed. Those under the age of 25 without jobs saw their social welfare cut during the recession. It currently stands at €100 per week and will not be changed in Budget 2016.
The National Youth Council of Ireland says its proposals would have ”supported young people on live register to move into education, training and work experience”.
The Opposition parties are all focussing on homelessness, criticising Howlin and Noonan for not doing enough to ease the current crisis.
From the SocDems Twitter account:
“Splash the cash…”
Fianna Fáil’s Seán Fleming says that the government is mismanaging the State’s income because it always has extra money in the last two months of the year.
He also asks if today’s extra expenditure is a way to “buy the general election”?
Then, inevitably, he begins to crunch the homeless numbers. He says that it was quite the achievement that Fianna Fáil turned a housing surplus to a housing shortage.
Modular homes could turn parts of the city into trailer parks, according to Fleming.
We’ve heard a lot about modular housing in recent weeks. What does it mean?
About 150 factory-built houses (essentially, prefabs) are due to be ordered to help provide accommodation for Dublin’s homeless.
Fancy a bit of light reading? Here’s Michael Noonan’s speech in full…
And not to leave him out… here’s Brendan Howlin’s speech.
Back to the Dáil..
Fleming is having a real go over the disappearance of ministers who have all left the house to hold media briefings in their departments.
Are you gone canvassing? Are you got nervous again? Is Joan happy with her €3 increase?” he asks.
He says it is a sign of the contempt Fine Gael and Labour hold for the parliament.
Fleming wasn’t exaggerating about those empty seats, as you can see.
There’s Enda Kenny in the corner though…
Have you figured out what Budget 2016 means for you?
Try our Budget calculator to find out…
Sinn Féin’s Pearse Doherty now takes to his feet – it’s his turn to rip into the announcements made today.
“Along comes the boom, then followed by the bust,” he says, telling the government that its plans are not sustainable.
The Taoiseach is still facing him, but nobody else from Cabinet.
We should have included the 1916 heroes in our Budget Bingo. Doherty is not the first to ask if the men and women from the Easter Rising would be happy with what they see in Ireland today.
Was it for this…etc?
From next year, Irish schools will have 2,260 more teachers. That’ll be broken down as:
Do you earn about €20,000?
We’ve crunched the numbers for you – and this is how Budget 2016 will affect your pay packet.
The big one: Adjustments to USC mean an extra €172 a year, or €3.44 more a week.
The SocDems haven’t got a chance to talk in the Dáil yet, but they’re doing their best to rip the Budget to shreds on Twitter.
Earlier, we weren’t *quite* sure what colour Michael Noonan’s tie was. We went for grey/silver/champagne but there were some shouts that it was brown.
What do you think?
As usual, Paddy Power took bets on what colour the Finance Minister would wear on his neck but even the experienced bookies couldn’t make out the hue.
So, they just paid everybody who placed a bet.
An interesting change … Ireland in 2016
Don’t want to read everything on Budget 2016? Our Nicky Ryan has you sorted.
Can’t see the video? Click here.
Pearse Doherty has dialled up the anger big time when talking about homelessness and income inequality in the Dáil.
He is calling strongly for a national emergency to be declared.
His ire is directly mostly at Labour, saying they have forgotten their roots and have become Fine Gael’s biggest champions.
“You have become more Fine Gael than Fine Gael themselves,” he tells Joan Burton.
Sinn Féin’s Mary Lou McDonald takes the stand now – and sticks to the party line that Fine Gael has a friend in the Tories in the UK and Angela Merkel in Germany.
A joint press release – Department of Health giving equal credit to Fine Gael’s Leo Varadkar and Labour’s Kathleen Lynch for “securing substantial increase in health budget”.
Election, anyone?
We’re already getting some international coverage – but it’s not positive. A headline on the New York Times today:
In their story, Douglas Dalby and Mark Scott write:
The Irish government, long criticized by other European countries and the United States for its friendly tax treatment of multinational giants like Apple and Google, on Tuesday announced a move that seemed likely to further incense its critics.
And we just can’t stop talking about that election, it seems.
Meanwhile, Mary Lou asks Enda to go to the polls. She says: “Joan will get over it.”
It’s now the turn of EVERYONE ELSE in the Dáil. They’ll all just get five minutes each – and they’re insisting on a clock.
Stephen Donnelly is up first… and, yes, the first thing on his agenda is housing.
He says that the tax cuts benefit the highest-earning homes. He believes the mistakes of the past are being repeated.
If you’re in and around the average industrial wage, this is what the government have decided for your income. Not surprisingly, it’s good news.
We told you how animated Pearse Doherty got earlier. Now see it for yourself.
That snippet from Brendan Howlin’s Budget speech is making waves internationally. From Bloomberg:
Ruth Coppinger calls the speaking time situation “ridiculous” as she tries to finish a sentence but the Ceann Comhairle insists she sit down and not to be selfish.
So as they mutter to themselves, Paul Murphy takes the stand to call today’s Budget Fine Gael’s fifth regressive budget.
For the average worker, he said, their extra €5 will go to pay their water charges (if they pay them).
Paul Murphy also takes issue with the ‘knowledge box’ which he insists is just another way to further reduce rates of corporation tax.
“The only beneficiaries are the multinationals,” he says.
Meanwhile, IDA Ireland is delighted with the development.
Clare Daly says today is an example of the disconnect between Leinster House and reality. She adds that it is an exercise in robbing from Peter to pay Paul.
“They thought you represented a different Ireland but you’ve turned out to be the same,” she told Labour and Fine Gael.
Are you a winner or loser today? Cliodhna Russell takes a look…
Clare Daly makes a point:
Those 700,000 people who no longer have to pay USC… what does that mean? They live on €13,000 or less a year.
“I am astounded at the unreality at what we are presented with today. There are few people who remember 1977. Fianna Fáil bought themselves back into government… this is exactly what is happening again,” Shane Ross begins his five minutes.
This is the beginning of the next artificial boom, tailored to various interest groups.
It is a budget for Fine Gael, he adds.
Mick Wallace sounds totally put out about the plan for Nama – the bad bank – to turn developer and build 20,000 housing units.
He pleads with the government to build social housing, saying that the private sector cannot solve the problem. Especially considering that private developers cannot compete with Nama or US vulture funds.
And we’re done.
Inspired by Spin 1038′s #ThingsIdTax hashtag, DailyEdge.ie has come up with some inventive ways that Ireland could have raised some income. Including:
The ‘crying laughing’ emoji…
And food that is served on anything other than on a plate or in a bowl…
Before we take our leave… here’s another quick recap of what went down today. You decide: foolish, giveaway budget or
And if you need to figure out exactly what today means for your wallet, check out our Advanced Budget Calculator.
That’s all from the Liveblog. Thanks for joining us, leaving comments, sending tweets and keeping us company through that long day.
A special shout-out to Tayto for sending us an enormous amount of Tayto (obviously) to get us through the day. The office smells accordingly.
Some day, hopefully we’ll see the USC and the wine tax off. But for now, good night and good luck.
The first colony to give Britain the heave – ho? Has he heard of the large country to our West?
Ireland wasn’t a colony . It was part of Britain and participated in colonialism along side the English , Welsh and scots .
Wouldn’t surprise me if Angela Merkel decides to call the shots. Pontificating is about all these F/F gangsters can do now, Martin is an embarrassment ,
So the Ulster plantation, Cromwellian plantation, penal laws etc were not part of a colonial conquest?
Fianna Fáil hijacked the economic future of our children and we will never get it fully back
Ireland was a colony in the same way America was a colony. It was invaded, ruled by mostly English landlords and the Anglican Church. Don’t kid yourslef.
Ireland was one of the three kingdoms of James I of England, VI of Scotland (the others being England and Scotland — England including Wales at the time). He was king of Ireland, it was part of his realm, not a foreign colony. Ireland has never been a British colony.
Ff the people who sold our sovereignty the bringers of child deprivation you most certainly are not republican your just euro lickarses.Ff ireland was at war through those 30 years with Britain but you lacked the balls to fight .Even the germans know you have no balls go back to la la land.Ff you were always a socialist party anyway wasn’t lemass a socialist?
Tommy according to your logic India was never a foreign colony of Britain as Queen Victoria was crowned Empress of India. A title does not gloss over the fact that Ireland was forcibly colonised and absorbed into the UK after a series of wars and Acts passed by governments that did not represent the people of Ireland.
The Rising belongs to the Provisional IRA and its political wing.
He needs to brush up on his Irish history.
Fiachra the Irish attempted to invade England just as much as the English attempted to invade Ireland. You know the old story about Saint Patrick taking into slavery by the Irish . Irish people did not see them selfs as being a British colony, they saw themselves as been part of Britain .
No Tommy the Irish did not try to invade England as much as the English tried to invade Ireland, the Irish raided the coast line but there is no evidence that they ever sought to completely subjugate the entire country, and I don’t think a few slave raids after the collapse of the Roman Emperor equals the centuries of invasions that came after. The old Irish word for English people is Gall which literally translates to foreigner so they never saw themselves as British.
I’d like to hear shinnerbots opinion, surely he’s not just content to jump in on other people’s comments?
Fiachra the brits hire mercenaries for hundreds of yrs to defend there coastline against the invading Irish . There where many attempts the Irish made to invade Britain as did many other countries that fail .
The Irish invaded Britain first.
A lovely song.
The British Soldier.
By Mr Harvey Andrews…1972
don’t know why tommy is getting all that heat, he is right. Ireland was not a colony, and had a different relationship within the british empire as opposed to the american colonies etc which were colonies.
1801 – Act of union. Ireland was part of the united kingdom. it had representation in the house of commons and other legislative differences in comparison to the colonies. The key difference between ireland, and say scotland, being the obvious, Ireland never wanted to be part of the UK. unfortunately that’s how things were tho.
Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
You’s must be crazy in the cuckoo,
So how did being part of britain help us during the Great Famine! for example.
No, we were exported to the colonies as slaves, to Montserrat, Antigua and Barbados, mostly. Or as prisoners or subsiside famine refugees to Canada and Australia. Learn your history first. Then learn how to understand it, only then can you ever even aspire to manipulate it.
Go back to school T Whelan. Battle of Kinsale, Flight of the earls, Cromwell etc etc
Uneducated comment
The PIRA didn’t exist in 1916, 1916 belongs to the IRB & The Volunteers.
Yes, yes, lets listen to the people who signed away our republics sovereignty tell us how to celebrate the rising.
Would any of the heroes of the rising have allowed germans to force private debt onto our citizens the way michael martins party did?
Answers on the back of a brown envelope please to the drumcondra mafia.
Did SF or The IRA rape children? No, it was individuals who did!
Sf raped children ! Really ? Have you info on this. Have you brought it to the Gardai ?
Patjoe fg ff covered for brendan Smyth, George gibney etc, what’s your point?
If you gave the slightest damn about the victims of child abuse, you wouldn’t be putting smiley faces at the end of your post.
i certainly do give a dam about them as i have repeatedly stated. its your lot i could give a dam about and am laughing at. nice try though, pathetic as usual…
Child sex abuse was covered up for years by fg,ff, lab ,catholic church, garda and department of education
In the instance of the church they to apologised for rogue priests!
Wer jammin If you had a shred of decency you wouldn’t be a lap dog to Gerry and troll every post on the journal from SF HQ … You don’t tho !!!
Patjoe like edna only care about abuse victims when they can exploit their plight for political gain.
Patjoe
This is the SF way of dealing with victims #Harass #Harass #Harass
Why do you call yourself je suis Ireland when you have northern part of Ireland blocked out from your photo?
Northern Ireland is a Separate country to the Republic of Ireland
Encase your Slow it’s the Republic in the picture ;)
Well why don’t you change your name to “je suis republic of Ireland” ?
Haha your twitter account Mrtittler!
Has “Je suis rep of eire”
Why didn’t you translate it properly?
Encase……*in case.
Not enough Characters
Pajoejoe123 your a bit strange!!!!!!!!Stay on topic there is nothing in the article about child abuse.
Je suis – Your silly map has Derry City , not in Co. Derry – but in Co. Donegal ?
You, Unionist Conservative FG Party supporters are very poor at Geography and History !!!
It is important to hijack/rewrite history for political purposes.
Care to poimt out which victims were harassed and how?
These tit for tat comments from politicians are getting old fast. He did this, they did that, he said this, they said that. Shut up and do your job.
Jog on troll.
Remember when you couldn’t spell democracy?
Hah….the troll protect democracy….or is it protect democacy(?)…. got his comment deleted.
Dermot – your hurting, but the truth hurts! Now run report me to mammy again?
Dermot the Delusional SF troll. – crude at that
Well played Comrade Mc Loughlin.
It’s you’re rather than your….I’m not here to correct your grammar, I’ve already taught you how to spell democracy, isn’t that enough?
FF sold our country off to speculators , bankers and developers they can F.uck off with their tit for tat rubbish .
And ff hijacked our country. Let’s hope they don’t get it back
Hijacked through democratic means … Awful isn’t it?!
No,they got elected through democratic means.
What they did when they got there? There was nothing democratic about that.
You have to be a thick wind up merchant C.J shit
Referring to Sinn Fien as “the only party with no direct connection to 1916″ requires some seriously blinkered and distorted logic on Martin’s behalf.
If SF have no direct connection then FF, which formed 10 years after the rising as a result of a split in SF, have to be in the same boat. Admittedly deV founded FF – but if he wants to use that link he has to conveniently forget that deV was also a member of SF and was it’s president at one point.
In the interests of full disclosure – I despise all politicians equally. Except Stephen Donnelly – he’s lovely.
Exactly…. 1916 Sinn Féin and 2015 Sinn Féin are exactly the same as they have the same name.
So what ?
The PIRA didn’t exist in 1916.
Are Fianna Fáil still here? Can we make them disappear completely in 2016 as a gesture to the Leaders of 1916?
Yeah Michéal, maybe more money could be allocated to the councils if it weren’t for the billions which have been pumped into the HSE over the years – the lovechild of yourself and “Fill my pockets and run” Ahern.
It’s a pity fianna fail didn’t act when people were being burned out of their homes in 60s and 70s
I must expand on Fianna Fail’s “Flawed Pedegree”
Haughy.
Flynn ( father and daughter)
Liam Lawlor.
Ray Burke.
Doherty ( the phone tapper)
Ivor Callelly
Bertie.
O’Dea. ( these are just some of the ones caught out )
There isn’t enough space to list the incompetents. All the last cabined.
De Velera and the Irish Press?
There was also a guy called Cowan if my mind serves me right !
I bag the first cuckoo of spring
I think the USA might have been the first colony to break free?
Will this FF muppet ever disappear from Irish life for the sake of everyone!
SF/IRA are an embarrassment to ireland
Patjoe, you are an embarrassment to ireland
Patjoejoe is more of an embarrassment to the evolution of mankind since the mid nineteenth century at least…
Fianna Fáil has woke up and released they need to do something after Sinn Fein made public their series of events for 2016- but it seems poor Fianna Fáil are still in the planning stage and the best events have already been booked by Sinn Fein-
Referring to Sinn Fien as “the only party with no direct connection to 1916″ requires some seriously blinkered and distorted logic on Martin’s behalf.
Is this wreckage of a political party trying to slither back up the cliff? The country has suffered enough because of the systematic wrecking ball propelled by FF and FG, as for hijacking an unpopular and bloody rising during the biggest meat grinder in human history they are all welcome to it.
Something very wrong snd silly about this story. Back in 1916, fianna fail didn’t exist, but sinn fein did. In 1926, a group of sinn fein members split and founded fianna fail so now……. politicians from fianna fail are argueing about how to celebrate something they done together back in 1916. Honestly, martin seems so out of sorts now that he’d start a scrap with his own shadow!
Sf was formed in 1905 the very first party in ireland the one and only through republican party in ireland.At the end of the civil war we got fg the blue shirts after they killed their own people namely the ira the very people that were fighting for a united ireland.THE Free state army killed more irish then the brits did.Ff were anti-treatyites the ira but sf are the very first real republican party.Fg took the brits weapons to kill their own during the civil war the worst of the worst are in government thats why they dont care about their own people ._.
Its all about the popularity and votes for the next election, soooo greedy. He’d sell his own mother for a vote!
Be jesus he is a bollocks
IRA and Sinn Féin no link to the Rising. ? IRB, Irish Citizen Army, the Irish Volunteers, all became the de facto Army of the Irish Republic IRA. While Sinn Féiners played individual roles as formerly IRB Citizen Army or Volunteers, it was the British governments branding of it the Sinn Féin Rising that lead to the massive rise in SF popularity. To say neither is related to the Rising is just pure revisionism by Me Hole. Sure where were Fianna Fail in 1916? Grow up me hole
SF/IRA won’t take part in the official state 1916 commemorations. Seems Right. They didn’t take part in 1916 Rising either.
Their laughable attempt to hijack same will stick in most peoples stomach who well remember their short & violent history. The men of 1916 were democratic. The SF pretenders of today are clearly a “one man fantasy band” Marxist organisation.
well said
“SF/IRA won’t take part in the official state 1916 commemorations. Seems Right. They didn’t take part in 1916 Rising either.”
Actually the Irish Volunteers did take part in the 1916 rising and the Irish Volunteers (Oglaigh na hEireann, ring a bell?) became the IRA in 1919.
“Their laughable attempt to hijack same will stick in most peoples stomach..blah blah…The men of 1916 were democratic.”
The “men of 1916″ consisted of a very large range of men with very differing political views. For example James Connolly, de facto commander in chief, was a communist and not a democrat. Indeed he was a prominent marxist theorist. You would have known that if you had any knowledge of Irish history beyond sloganeering.
Protect Democracy could you please enlighten me as to where the men of 1916 got there democratic mandate from
I love all this ‘mandate’ talk.. You hardly have referendums before a revolution. Cancel July 4th and 14th as national celebrations if that’s the case.
Deegan- it’s clear it’s you who needs to have a few history lessons ! Comrade Putin & Fidel would not be impressed with you !
A failed rebellion by people acting without mandate?
It’s no wonder fine gael and fianna fail feel so attached to it.
“Deegan- it’s clear it’s you who needs to have a few history lessons ! Comrade Putin & Fidel would not be impressed with you !”
Like I said, dumb sloganeering.
You should go back to school Pd…..that’s if you ever went at all…..and learn punctuation, history and grammar.
I understand you’re hiding behind a fake Twitter account but I still like to read coherent and articulate comments when browsing through this news site.
I thought the commemoration of the 1916 rising was to be inclusive to all the people of this Island of Ireland irrespective of what political party you belong to or politics you vote for. So can someone please explain to me why the main party FG and some other grubby party called FF are trying to put down the largest party on this Island SF who more people voted for and have a larger mandate then any of them from commemorating the Easter Rising the way they and there supporters see fit. 100′s of thousands of people vote and support Sinn Fien and they will commemorate 1916 however they seem fit, just like they have “every year”
I’ve never voted FF, and never will, but I agree with Micheal Martin on this. I owe nothing to SF or PIRA.
Well I live in the North and I do as do many here. When Irish governments turned their back and ignored the plight of their northern countrymen it was Sinn Fein that stood by us and continued to fight for equality and an ending of partition. How so many have forgot that part of the country is still under British rule. Suppose its easier to forget about it than to actually face up to it. The men of 16 must be proud….
SF/SDLP have played a massive part in getting the six counties into 32.
move on from the republican group’s attempt to tarnish the events of 1916…. it was the ira that hijack Dublin that fateful day in 1916. next he will be telling us there was no casualties, Collins and de valera shook hands with the brutish and asked them to leave nicely the British have said it was illegal, the people hounded the men of 1916 on the streets that changed when the British shot them,..FF/FG or should i say FG/IRA FF/IRA would have us believe it was some fairytale, it created a civil war. FF/FG have continue to adopt the divide and conquer rule and very good they are at it as well.
Im not a sinn fein supporter in any shape or form although i would consider myself a nationalist, and i was a former fianna fail supporter in my youth. As a lot of us were. But this crap about the IRA completely ignores the conditions that led to the provos campaign. Sectarianism and blatent ethnic cleansing by loyalist murder squads, both paramilitary and state sponsored, was bound to lead to atrocities in response. Northern ireland from inception was akin to apartheid south africa, were the value of a catholic life meant little to the protestant majority. And what did our politicians do to help? Nothing. Last irish leader to send any help north was Collins. I in no way condone any of the violence against civilians carried out under any banner, but what option did the nationalist community have? The IRA were, unfortunately, a necessary evil. One that we can all be glad there is no need for anymore, but to say there was never a need is to ignore our history. And those who ignore history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of yesteryear.
Coming from the leader of a party who sold the very independence of the country over to the IMF and EU by wrecking it to suit their own greed ….the leaders of the Rising would be turning in their graves….. Shame on you
The first colony that they lost. Does he not realise that 6 of our counties in our province of Ulster are still colonised and under occupation or is he the same as dame Edna kenny and sees our 6 counties as a foreign country. You failed the real visionary men of 16 micky martin when you sat at the cabinet table and oversaw the the sailing of our country down the river and into the hands of the troika.
Are ff claiming responsibility for the murder and myham of easter 16.
Michael Martin is so far removed from what it would take to be revolutionary.
in true fashion the IRA were nowhere to be seen in 1916 coward then and cowards now
Are you and Tap Solny twins?
Given that the IRA did not come into existence until after the Rising that is asking a bit much of them.
The IRA hijacked illegal armed insurrection and FF want it back. They also hijacked cars, blew up property and people, were involved in rape and sexual abuse – does FF want this as well?
So did the FF-era IRA, what’s your point?
Think I’m going to vote Sinn Fein now just to annoy you!
Michael who?
Privileged to be in attendance at the launch today at the RCOS, the commemoration should be inclusive to all the people of Ireland but unfortunately SF/IRA have already tried to hijack it. Shameful from the provisional movement.
Ollie, your sainted former leader , Charlie Haughey, didn’t seem to mind the IRA too much when he tried to buy guns for them.
” Shameful from the provisional movement.”
As a member of FF, I think we can take it for granted that you don’t understand the concept of shame.
Hey Ollie, remember when fianna fail ruined this country?
Ireland was a colony.it was exploited pillaged and women and children raped by the detested English. More irish died in the great irish genocide than jews in the second world war but they label it the irish famine when English soldiers forced the deportation of our livestock,poultry etc because their crop were failing also.this will always be remembered and never forgotten. You cant go 30-40 miles in any direction in rural ireland without famine mass grave sites .
Commemorating a failed coup d’etat laughable ……why is it we don’t celebrate the real independence day ????
Because we haven’t had independence yet.
First colony the british empire lost……what about america?
Ireland wasn’t a colony in 1916, it was part of the UK
Yeah, it was doing really well as an ‘equal’ member of the UK, highest child mortality rate apart from calcutta, largest slum areas in Europe. Proper nirvana..
@Tommy Whelan and supporters: if Ireland was not a colony, why then was Winston Churchill present at Anglo-Irish Treaty negotiations in his capacity as Secretary of State For the Colonies?
A lot of hot air from a selfcentered hypocrit trying for political survival. Insulting the brave men and women of 1916 for political gain is beyond belief. Time for FF to rid itself of it’s biggest liability.
Amen
Let’s vote on it
Does he not mean 14th Colony?
The US, at the time, was made up of 13 colonies (indicated by the increasing number of starts on the flag but the 13 stripes)
Such an utterly crap statement Martin. The majority of political parties in Ireland were happy to ignore how our country achieved its freedom and a large majority of the public played along. How anyone can buy such a crappy PR fuelled statement is beyond me. I know I will be utterly pxssxd off when 2016 comes around and we have to listen to the sanctimony of these cardboard centre parties and their bar stool supporters bleed on about something they are usually only too happy to ignore!
Martin is a dead man walking and will be ousted as party leader even after entering government with Kenny after next election This is the talk of a man desperate to gain lost ground to SF who are the real and honest REPUBLICANparty
Fianna Failed
Can someone remind Mr Martin that we only got 3/4 of the country free. The 6 counties in the north and its people are every part of this country and nation. Successive Irish governments turned the other way when their country men were being butchered in the north from partition. Maybe Mr Martin is ashamed of his parties record when it comes to ignoring the north. Lets face it the only time they actually talk about the north is to attack Sinn fein. The leaders of the rising set out to free all of Ireland and lead all the Irish people. How has Fianna Fail any right to claim anything in common with the men of 16. Even his use of the word country to describe the 26 counties and esclude the north is against the spirit of what those men fought for. Sinn Fein the first Republican party in Ireland are the only party that can rightfully claim to represent those ideals that were fought for in 1916.
Fianna Fail are damaged goods and are unlikely to lead a government for many years to come Party made a huge mistake in leaving some of the old guard at the helm ie MARTIN/O DEA/COWEN name alone stinks They should have rebranded like NEW labour in britian some years ago with new young guns leading ie McGrath/Dooley etc If Martin was shafted FF vote would increase considerably Send old boys to the backbenches for good Might be infighting in party in short term but they would have better long term prospects by far
Totally agree. The IRA drenched our heritage in blood, often that of children and innocents, and not in the name of the Irish. Time to reclaim our history from the bombers of Omagh and the abductors of Jean McConville
If the volunteers could see what you lot have done to the people of Ireland today you lot would be lined up and shot. Shame on the lot of you
the same party who sold the proclamation crying about defending 1916
yes 1916 needs defending but from FF,FG and Labour
I am actually beginning to loathe this man.
There is some weapons of mass destruction on here ie.patjoe,patsolny etc etc gimps and cretins of the highest order!!!! Fg/ff/lab rentboys..trolls..pity you where not educated in letterfrack the dump your ff/fg pigs installed on our nation.and as for the genocide(famine my hole)
Has he even asked the people of Ireland if they want it back?
No more than the clowns in the GPO asked the people of Ireland if they wanted a revolution.
“If I wish to know what the Irish want, I look into my own heart” said DeValera. Or he could have just asked us.
People who don’t ask difficult questions are usually unsure or afraid of the answers.
And this man represents the threat of namby pamby revisionism, of history being hijacked by Nancy boys and halfwit liberals. Like or not , no IRA = endless lapdog servitude to the filthy poms. Who wants to be scots or welsh?
have your say