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LAST UPDATE | 30 Nov 2019
FIANNA FÁIL LEADER Micheál Martin will be more than satisfied this evening after his party claimed two by-election wins, holding onto the seat vacated by Billy Kelleher in Cork in May and claiming the one vacated by Mick Wallace in Wexford.
The Greens too will be happy with their win in Dublin Fingal, which increases their Dáil representation to three and provides a campaign boost heading into the general election.
Mary Lou McDonald is likely relieved that Sinn Féin got a result on the board in Dublin Mid-West, after the party’s poor showing in May’s local and European elections.
Here’s how events played out today:
Good morning, Rónán Duffy here for the early part of our coverage.
I say early because although we may get some results in the afternoon, counting isn’t expected to be completed until tomorrow morning.
We’ve put together some more details about timings here:
So far though we’re only working by a few early tally indidations.
In Dublin Fingal, Councillor Joe O’Brien appears to be doing quite well according to RTÉ’s Mícheál Lehane.
The constituency is largely made up of the former Dublin North constituency that used to be the home of former Green Party leader Trevor Sargent.
To actually get elected a candidate will need to reach the quota of 50% of the vote plus one, that is unlikely to happen after the first count in any constituencies so we’ll then start seeing some eliminations.
This is probably a good time to point you towards our four constituency profiles. They’ll give you an idea about who could be sitting in the Dáil next week:
We’ve heard about one former fertile green area in Dublin Fingal, but how about another in the shape of former Green Party TD Paul Gogarty.
Gogarty is currently an independent councillor but has been running on his green credentials and it looks like he’s been doing well early on. As well as picking up a lot of number ones, he also appears to be very transfer friendly.
Current tallies put hm behin Sinn Féin councillor Mark Ward but that could change.
Agriculture Minister Michael Creed has been speaking to RTÉ and was asked why turnabout was so bad. He says it could be down to electoral fatigue or that fact that we have a general election coming in the near future.
I think it’s probably a combination of the fact that the elections are taking place in November. I think if you look at what’s happening across the water, all the feedback is that it’s very difficult to get engagement in the UK on this 12 December election which they’re facing.
“And I think it’s also probably influenced by the fact that most of the electorate know that they’re facing a further electoral contest sometime in 2020. And perhaps they feel that they will withhold their judgement until then.”
The Green Party’s chairman Roderic O’Gorman has been speaking to RTÉ about Joe O’Brien’s performance in Dublin Fingal:
We’re very happy with the tallies we’re seeing not just in Skerries in the north county but across all parts of Fingal. Joe is doing very well and Malahide,doing very well in Portmarnock, I’ve seen him top top boxes in both of those areas. And in Swords, he’s holding his own very much. He’s in second or third in most of the boxes there.
Verona Murphy’s campaign in Wexford has been the most controversial talking point over the past number of weeks and remains so today.
The night before yesterday’s vote, Murphy shared a video on her Facebook page which said she was the victim of “character assassination in the media”.
The video features shots of newspaper headlines about Murphy and is set to the Survivor song Eye of the Tiger, made famous as the theme tune to Rocky.
Fine Gael ministers have been reacting to it this morning, with Murphy seeking to join the Fine Gael ranks in the Dáil.
Charlie Flanagan, an image of whom features in the video, said it was “not an official Fine Gael video” while Michael Creed said he had not seen it.
Fine Gael Senator Neale Richmond with what looks like a full tally in Dublin Mid-West.
It confirms what we’ve seen earlier that Sinn Féin’s Mark Ward appears to be leading. Fine Gael’s Emer Higgins polling strongly too with Paul Gogarty behind her again.
It’s setting up an intriguing contest for the seat that could run and run.
We have no clear details yet on turnout after yesterday it was described as ‘diabolically low’ – but if this from RTÉ’s Cian McCormack is anything to go by it’s not good.
Counters opened a box in Bishopstown in Cork to find (*grimacing emoji*) no votes.
Of the votes that were cast in Corth North-Central, here’s how the tallies look with two-thirds of the boxes open.
Anne-Marie McNally of the Social Democrats isn’t giving much away about her chances in Dublin Mid-West.
Her party co-leader Catherine Murphy has said that they will targeting the seat next year if they don’t win it today.
We certainly do have hopes, we run a very strong campaign and obviously a by-election is very different election to a general election but we would be very hopeful with Anne-Marie McNally when it comes to the general election. Obviously the turnout is a very low turnout, which is a story in itself. And this is really kind of, if you like, an end of term set of by-elections, as opposed to mid-term elections, and I think that’s important because I think the relevance of electing people for a small number of weeks or months, wasn’t lost on people.
“But the kinds of issues that were raised on the doorstep will obviously frame the general election because a lot of them were national issues.”
Aidan Delaney of South East Radio has a tally from Wexford.
Fianna Fáil’s Malcolm Byrne is looking very good for a seat ahead of Verona Murphy.
Labour leader Brendan Howlin is in his constituency of Wexford to support his party’s candidate George Lawlor.
He’s been speaking about the contest in the constituency and the comments by Verona Murphy:
I think most of us were very uncomfortable with the entire tone of those remarks. I said well before the election campaign, that there is responsibility on political leaders to ensure that we don’t change the discourse in Ireland to follow some of the populist campaigns of Eastern Europe and other parts of Europe that we have avoided, thankfully, because of, I think, very clear leadership.
“We want to have an inclusive debate. We want to have a debate based on facts and I think there is a responsibility on our political leaders to ensure that happens.”
The poor turnout appears to be helping some candidates more than others.
Tallies are showing Sinn Fein’s Mark Ward as leading in Dublin Mid-West, suggesting he has got his vote out strongly in the areas he’s popular in .
Here’s the full tally in Cork North Central from Green Party candidate Oliver Moran.
He’s happy with how he party performed but all but admits he won’t be getting near enough votes to contend. He says he’s targeting the general election.
Alan Healy, the deputy news editor of the Echo in Cork, told us a few weeks ago that Cork North Central is viewed as “Jack Lynch territory”.
Fianna Fáil looking good to hold the seat that was vacated by Billy Kelleher.
Some images from the count centre in Wexford.
We’re approaching our first counts in a couple of areas.
The first count in Cork North Central is expected at 1.30 pm, in Dublin Fingal at 2 pm and in Dublin Mid-West shortly too.
WE HAVE OUR FIRST RESULT!
It’s in Dublin Mid-West and shows Sinn Féin’s Mark Ward polling very strongly. Here are the numbers.
The bottom four candidates have now been eliminated.
ANOTHER RESULT INCOMING!
This time in Cork North Central where, as the tallies were indicating, Fianna Fáil’s Padraig O’Sullivan leads the pack.
Some reaction to that Cork North Central result.
Fianna Fáil TD Thomas Byrne prompts howls of laughter in the Saturday RTÉ studio after saying that Padraig O’Sullivan “looks reliable”.
“He’s a good candidate, I mean I don’t actually know him but one thing that struck me looking at photographs of him, he looks trustworthy, he looks reliable, he just has that look about him,” Byrne says.
Judge for yourselves….
Byrne was also asked about Verona Murphy’s campaign for Fine Gael and the latest campaign video we reported on earlier.
Byrne says that Fianna Fáil believes there has been “a deliberate testing of the waters on immigration by Fine Gael in Wexford”.
“And you know you mentioned the comments from my candidate in Fingal, which were eight years ago before she was in politics,” he says.
But then obviously the Taoiseach campaigned, the Taoiseach mentioned Georgians and Albanians in another incident. Then Michael Ring, who was featured in that last video, was talking about a national conversation on immigration when nine or 13 women were proposed to move to Achill. It seems to us there was a deliberate testing of the waters.
Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin looks happy in Cork.
And why wouldn’t he be? His party candidate has topped the poll and he’s holding A SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL GUIDE DOG PUPPY.
COUNT 2 FROM DUBLIN MID-WEST.
Mark Ward extends his lead and Anne-Marie McNally will now be eliminated.
Dominic McGrath taking over the liveblog here. And we’ve got another update for you.
COUNT 3 FROM CORK NORTH-CENTRAL
We’re racing through counts down in Cork, with things still looking like a Fianna Fáil victory as Padraig O’Sullivan sits safely enough at the top of the poll.
While we’re on the subject of Cork, a brief bit of information on that Bishopstown ballot box, which contained a sum total of zero votes.
A few people have been expressing shock on Twitter – and it is certainly rare to find a ballot box without a single vote.
But Cork North-Central is a sprawling geographical area and as election expert Jennifer Kavanagh noted on Twitter earlier, it’s as much the fault of people who drew the boundaries of the constituency.
For anyone not familiar with the geography of Cork, I think residents of Bishopstown -which is in south Cork city – would question being dubbed “north-central”.
COUNT 3 FROM DUBLIN MID-WEST
The votes from Anne-Marie McNally of the Social Democrats have been re-distributed.
It seems, perhaps unsurprisingly, that Solidarity-People Before Profit, the Greens and Independent Paul Gogarty have all benefited the most.
COUNT 4 FROM CORK NORTH-CENTRAL
Here are the latest results from Cork North-Central.
Padraig O’Sullivan still has a pretty comfortable lead over Fine Gael’s Colm Burke.
Over in Dublin Fingal, the Green Party is in a cheery mood.
It’s not all quite as sewn up as it was for Ciarán Cuffe in the European elections back in May, but Joe O’Brien remains in serious contention to win his party’s first-ever by-election after promising-looking early tallies.
COUNT 1 FROM WEXFORD
The first result is in from Wexford and Fianna Fáil’s Malcom Byrne, who contested the European election for the party, has topped the poll with the largest share of first-preference votes.
Byrne is around 3,000 votes ahead of Verona Murphy, who received around 9,500 first preference votes despite something of a controversial campaign.
COUNT 4 FROM DUBLIN MID-WEST
The elimination of Solidarity-People Before Profit candidate Kellie Sweeney has added to the lead of Mark Ward of Sinn Féin.
As things stand, it looks like that lead might be enough to survive a challenge from Fine Gael’s Emer Higgins.
The next count in Dublin Mid-West should be particularly interesting transfer-wise.
The next person to be eliminated is the Green Party’s Peter Kavanagh – we might expect his votes to go to Paul Gogarty, a former Green TD.
That could give Gogarty a significant boost, bringing him closer to Higgins and Ward.
COUNT 5 IN CORK NORTH-CENTRAL
Here’s the latest from Cork – counts are coming in thick and fast now.
COUNT 1 FROM DUBLIN FINGAL
We have our first count in Fingal and the Green Party’s Joe O’Brien is in the lead, with nearly 23% of the vote.
Down in Cork, Micheál Martin has been chatting to the media.
Martin said whatever the result today, he was still working towards a springtime election.
“This doesn’t change the trajectory of when an election will happen, I’m still looking at the springtime,” he told Cork’s 96FM.
He said that if the Tories won the UK election as expected the current Brexit deal would likely go through at the end of January.
At that point Fianna Fáil will have lived up to its commitment of ensuring stability throughout the fraught Brexit negotiation process, Martin said, and the Dáil could begin winding down.
“The 12th of April is a natural cut-off point for the parliamentary session,” he said.
COUNT 6 IN CORK NORTH CENTRAL
We’re getting closer (relatively speaking) to a result in Cork. It does seem as if we’re heading towards a reasonably comfortable Fianna Fáil win.
COUNT 2 IN DUBLIN FINGAL
Joe O’Brien remains ahead of Lorraine Clifford-Lee by over 1,000 votes after the second count in Dublin Fingal.
COUNT 5 IN DUBLIN MID-WEST
We’re still far away from the quota, but Sinn Féin’s Mark Ward remains well ahead of Emer Higgins in Dublin Mid-West.
Here was the scene as Labour’s Joanna Tuffy, who was the TD in Dublin Mid-West until 2016, was eliminated from the race.
The constituency is really shaping up to be one of the most exciting contests of the four by-elections.
Back to Micheál Martin, who is understandably in a somewhat buoyant mood as his candidate looks set to win in Cork North-Central
Speaking to 96FM at the count centre earlier, Martin said the likely result was a welcome one for the party.
Martin said the grassroots effort in the area had been a major factor in the win.
“Padraig wouldn’t have been as well known in the city side of the constituency starting out here but by the time was over they knew who he was and that’s down to the strength of the campaign on the ground.
“He described it as part of the recovery and “journey of renewal” of Fianna Fáil in recent years, after the party’s vote collapsed in 2011 in the wake of the economic crash.
While it looks like it will be a solid victory, Martin can’t be too surprised that Padraig O’Sullivan is on course to win. As one local reporter told me several weeks ago, Cork North-Central is basically “Jack Lynch territory”.
To lose a seat held by Billy Kelleher for the party since 1997 would have been a major shock.
In Dublin Fingal, Joe O’Brien has been basking in something of a miniature ‘green wave’.
No one really thought the Green Party could win the race to take the seat vacated by Independents 4 Change TD Clare Daly when she was elected to the European Parliament.
COUNT 6 IN DUBLIN MID-WEST
After Labour’s Joanna Tuffy’s votes were redistributed, Paul Gogarty has narrowed the gap on Fine Gael’s Emer Higgins.
COUNT 2 IN WEXFORD
Malcom Byrne of Fianna Fáil remains ahead of Fine Gael’s Verona Murphy in Wexford.
COUNT 7 IN CORK NORTH-CENTRAL
The Green Party’s Oliver Moran has been eliminated. Fianna Fáil remains in a comfortable position in the constituency.
Notably, Fine Gael’s Colm Burke has been pushed into third by Sinn Féin’s Thomas Gould.
COUNT 3 IN DUBLIN FINGAL
After the third count in Dublin Fingal, Gemma O’Doherty has been eliminated. Her 1,149 votes will be re-distributed, as the Green Party remains ahead.
We still have a long way to go before we have a result, but the Green Party’s reputation for being transfer-friendly is holding strong so far.
Charlie Flanagan has been speaking to the media about Fine Gael TD Dara Murphy, who is set to leave the Dáil to take up a new role in the EU.
Justice Minister Charlie Flanagan has said it is “incumbent” that fellow Fine Gael TD Dara Murphy answers questions about his Dáil attendance record over the past two years.
It has emerged over the past week that Murphy has been largely absent from the Dáil as a result of a Brussels-based job with the European People’s Party, an EU political grouping of which Fine Gael is aligned with.
The Irish Examiner reported earlier this week that the former junior minister was expected to announce his departure from the Dáil to take up a new EU role.
You can read the full piece from TheJournal.ie’s Hayley Halpin here.
COUNT 7 IN DUBLIN MID-WEST
Mark Ward is pulling away it seems, with a large and growing gap between him and Fine Gael’s Emer Higgins.
Leo Varadkar is in the count centre and will probably be feeling less chirpy than Micheál Martin.
Here’s how Dublin Mid-West looks now:
So how are things looking for Fine Gael? Put simply, not good.
In Dublin Mid-West, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has been putting on a brave face. “We’re not conceding defeat,” he says.
While he might remain hopeful that Emer Higgins can close the gap with Mark Ward, down in Wexford Verona Murphy seems to be accepting that she is unlikely to catch Malcolm Byrne.
“I’m most impressed about the support I received from Fine Gael members,” she said.
On her controversial comments, Murphy was keeping quiet: “I have apologised for those comments and that’s all I have to say on that.”
But she is adamant that she intends to run again in the general election.
“This is a learning curve,” she said.
COUNT 4 IN DUBLIN FINGAL
Here’s the latest from the constituency.
COUNT 8 IN DUBLIN MID-WEST
Disappointment for Paul Gogarty as we enter the final stretch in the constituency.
COUNT 9 IN CORK NORTH-CENTRAL
Padraig O’Sullivan is on course for victory, while Sinn Féin have also put in a strong performance.
Sinn Féin’s Mark Ward is ahead by 1,400 votes, with Paul Gogarty’s votes to be re-distributed.
This is really not what anyone was predicting in Dublin Mid-West, perhaps least of all Sinn Féin.
Speaking to our reporter Rónán Duffy and other journalists, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has been answering questions on the by-election and recent controversies.
Varadkar also commented on Lisa Smith’s imminent return:
He also took questions on the scrutiny on Fine Gael’s Dara Murphy:
You can read more about that here.
COUNT 3 IN WEXFORD
No change, with Malcolm Byrne still ahead. Karin Dubsky and Johnny Mythen have been eliminated.
Mary Lou McDonald is also in a good mood it seems. She’s arrived in the Dublin Mid-West count centre, where her party is causing something of an upset.
She’s a fast learner, apparently. “I have learned a million lessons since the summer,” she says.
Things weren’t looking too rosy for her party, which suffered significant losses in the local and European elections in May.
Today, her party looks set to take a seat in Dublin and has performed well in Cork North-Central.
Standing alongside local TD and housing spokesperson Eoin Ó Broin, McDonald sounded like she had more reasons to be optimistic.
Sinn Féin’s Mark Ward has won in Dublin Mid-West – the first victory in the by-elections.
The win for the party is something of a surprise result.
The seat was previously held by Fine Gael’s Frances Fitzgerald, who was elected to the European Parliament in May.
Here’s how things looked after that final count.
From the very first tallies, Dublin Mid-West looked like it was set to be a nail biter. What was pitched as a relatively predictable Fine Gael victory on home turf – this being Frances Fitzgerald’s old seat – instead became a closely run battle.
It raises questions about what Fine Gael does next and whether Emer Higgins will be a candidate in the constituency come next year.
As for Sinn Féin’s Mark Ward, he has said his victory is a rejection of austerity. “No one gave us a chance,” he says.
And the result is a genuine surprise. The win is without a doubt a major boost for Mary Lou McDonald after those disappointing results back in May.
COUNT 5 IN DUBLIN FINGAL
And following immediately on from that drama in Dublin Mid-West, I can confirm that… no one has yet been elected in Dublin Fingal.
Dean Mulligan of Independents 4 Change has been eliminated, with Joe O’Brien of the Green Party still looking odds on to take the seat.
COUNT 9 IN CORK NORTH-CENTRAL
We’re close to a result in Cork North-Central after Fine Gael’s Colm Burke was eliminated.
Burke had been expected to challenge for the seat but was instead beaten into third place by Sinn Féin.
While we await the results from other constituencies, here’s a quick summary of how things stand:
Dublin-Mid-West: Mark Ward has been elected. It was a surprise victory for Sinn Féin, who snatched the seat from Fine Gael.
Dublin Fingal: Joe O’Brien is at the top of the poll and appears on course to secure a major win for the Green Party.
Cork-North Central: Fianna Fáil is practically guaranteed a seat in the constituency. It means Pádraig O’Sullivan will replace Billy Kelleher as a TD.
Wexford: Fianna Fáil’s Malcolm Byrne is currently in the lead and seems likely to remain there. Fine Gael’s Verona Murphy, who received serious criticism for comments made throughout the campaign, has all but conceded – but she says she wants to run again for the party.
Fine Gael’s James Reilly – a former health minister – is looking likely to be eliminated soon in Dublin Fingal.
“It’s a disappointing outcome,” Reilly told reporters.
He said he didn’t regret running. “I still have a lot of energy and I’m interested in the future,” he said.
It remains to be seen if he’ll still be on the ticket come the general election next year.
Finance minister Paschal Donohoe has been on RTÉ News discussing the results from the by-elections.
On Dublin Mid-West candidate Emer Higgins, Donohoe was positive. He said he was “hopeful for her prospects in the future”.
On Verona Murphy, he was more circumspect. Asked about her desire to stand again for the party in Wexford, he was non-committal.
“Every candidate is over the view that they should be the candidate,” he said.
He said Murphy had many “qualities” and praised the “vigour” of her campaign
But he said the party would review the status of every candidate.
“Her status is no different to any other,” he said. “It is up to the party.”
The drama is far from over – there’s talk over a possible re-count in Wexford.
It seems Labour and Fine Gael are fighting over who will end up coming second in the constituency.
COUNT 4 IN WEXFORD
Verona Murphy has been eliminated in the constituency.
Labour’s Geroge Lawlor has pushed Fine Gael into third – an impressive result for the party in leader Brendan Howlin’s home constituency.
There is only a difference of 71 votes between Lawlor and Murphy, hence suggestions that there might be a recount.
Fianna Fáil’s Padraig O’Sullivan has been elected in Cork North-Central.
This has been something of a certainty for a while. The constituency is something of a bastion for Fianna Fáil and it would have been a major shock if O’Sullivan had failed to succeed Billy Kelleher.
COUNT 6 IN DUBLIN FINGAL
No one has yet been elected in Dublin Fingal, but as expected Fine Gael’s James Reilly has been eliminated.
With three candidates left, it’ll be interesting to see where his transfers go.
As a reminder, Joe O’Brien of the Green Party is currently set to be elected, with Fianna Fáil Lorraine Clifford Lee in second and Labour’s Duncan Smith in third.
The election of Padraig O’Sullivan is the first of a possible two victories for Fianna Fáil before the night is out.
However, a victory for Malcolm Byrne in Wexford all depends on where Verona Murphy’s transfers go – which is somewhat difficult to predict.
This means that success for former European election candidate Byrne isn’t the certainty it was only an hour ago.
No word of a recount yet, in case you were wondering.
While we wait on more results from Dublin Fingal and Wexford, a quick word on turnout.
The figures were a record-low and it’s hard to properly assess why. Some have been quick to blame disenchantment with politics, while others have pointed to everything from the weather to the timing of the Late Late Toy Show.
University College Cork’s Theresa Reidy says we shouldn’t necessarily blame voters, in a Twitter thread that’s worth reading.
As questions continue over Fine Gael TD Dara Murphy’s Dáil attendance record over the past two years, he’s just released a statement:
“Following recent media and political commentary, I wish to state that at all times I have been compliant with rules for attendance at Leinster House,” he says.
“I will continue to provide any evidence required to the appropriate authorities. I attended the required 120 days at Leinster House in 2018 and should achieve the requisite number for 2019 and will make the statutory return when due,” the statement continues.
Murphy insists it’s simply another occupation. “Many of my colleagues in Dáil Éireann do so – some colleagues have legal, medical, business, farming etc interests,” he states.
Malcolm Byrne has been elected for Fianna Fáil in Wexford.
This isn’t a huge shock, but it’s a boost for Fianna Fáil and another embarrassing result for Fine Gael after Verona Murphy was pushed into third place.
COUNT 7 IN DUBLIN FINGAL
No one has been elected in Dublin Fingal, with Duncan Smith eliminated. As has been clear for most of the day, the Green Party’s Joe O’Brien seems likely now to be elected.
O’Brien is on 9,183 votes, while Fianna Fáil’s Lorraine Clifford Lee is on 6,547.
Now, count centre staff will transfer Smith’s 6,300 votes.
This does mean that a result is imminent – the final seat to be filled in the by-election.
Here’s how things stand in Dublin Fingal:
Speaking after his election, Fianna Fáil’s Malcolm Byrne said:
Racism and the language of division and hate has no place in Wexford politics. Wexford is better than that and Ireland is better than that.
In her speech following her defeat, Verona Murphy seemed determined to run again in the constituency.
If she does so under a Fine Gale banner remains to be seen.
It’s been something of a strange by-election count day.
Incredibly low turnout, a surprise Sinn Féin resurgence and a ‘green wave’ largely confined to the Dublin Fingal constituency.
Every major opposition party can take positives from today’s results, especially Labour. Having taken second place in Wexford is a significant achievement, while Duncan Smith received 15% of first preference votes in Dublin Fingal.
While not directly comparable, for reference Labour only received 10% in the same constituency in 2016.
As we await confirmation of the result in Dublin Fingal, the Green Party is in a celebratory mood.
Joe O’Brien looks set to be joining Catherine Martin and Eamon Ryan in the Dáil.
If Sinn Féin is taking lessons from the by-election, they might want to look at Dublin Fingal.
In 2016, incumbent TD Louise O’Reilly only received 8.7% of first preference votes, just getting the fifth seat.
In this by-election, Ann Graves only received 5.3% of first preferences.
Once again, general elections and by-elections are not really comparable – but it still could prove a difficult constituency for the party next year.
FINAL COUNT IN DUBLIN FINGAL
The Green Party’s Joe O’Brien has been elected as a TD. This is the first-ever by-election victory for the party.
This result has been nearly a foregone conclusion all day, but it still comes as something of a surprise with no one predicting such a clear Green win.
It means that all four by-election seats have now been filled.
And for anyone celebrating the election of Joe O’Brien, here’s the campaign leaflet from the first-ever by-election contested by the Green Party in 1983.
So with Dublin Fingal filled, counting is now over in each of the four by-election constituencies.
Fine Gael won’t have long to lick their wounds, as there’s the small matter of a confidence vote in housing minister Eoghan Murphy to contend with in just three days’ time.
Despite today’s result, the government is expected to survive that vote and, all going to plan as far as FG and FF are concerned, we should all be back here next spring for the general election.
On that cheery note, we’re going to say goodbye – but keep an eye on TheJournal.ie for the rest of the night and the weekend for reaction to today’s results.
The first colony to give Britain the heave – ho? Has he heard of the large country to our West?
Ireland wasn’t a colony . It was part of Britain and participated in colonialism along side the English , Welsh and scots .
Wouldn’t surprise me if Angela Merkel decides to call the shots. Pontificating is about all these F/F gangsters can do now, Martin is an embarrassment ,
So the Ulster plantation, Cromwellian plantation, penal laws etc were not part of a colonial conquest?
Fianna Fáil hijacked the economic future of our children and we will never get it fully back
Ireland was a colony in the same way America was a colony. It was invaded, ruled by mostly English landlords and the Anglican Church. Don’t kid yourslef.
Ireland was one of the three kingdoms of James I of England, VI of Scotland (the others being England and Scotland — England including Wales at the time). He was king of Ireland, it was part of his realm, not a foreign colony. Ireland has never been a British colony.
Ff the people who sold our sovereignty the bringers of child deprivation you most certainly are not republican your just euro lickarses.Ff ireland was at war through those 30 years with Britain but you lacked the balls to fight .Even the germans know you have no balls go back to la la land.Ff you were always a socialist party anyway wasn’t lemass a socialist?
Tommy according to your logic India was never a foreign colony of Britain as Queen Victoria was crowned Empress of India. A title does not gloss over the fact that Ireland was forcibly colonised and absorbed into the UK after a series of wars and Acts passed by governments that did not represent the people of Ireland.
The Rising belongs to the Provisional IRA and its political wing.
He needs to brush up on his Irish history.
Fiachra the Irish attempted to invade England just as much as the English attempted to invade Ireland. You know the old story about Saint Patrick taking into slavery by the Irish . Irish people did not see them selfs as being a British colony, they saw themselves as been part of Britain .
No Tommy the Irish did not try to invade England as much as the English tried to invade Ireland, the Irish raided the coast line but there is no evidence that they ever sought to completely subjugate the entire country, and I don’t think a few slave raids after the collapse of the Roman Emperor equals the centuries of invasions that came after. The old Irish word for English people is Gall which literally translates to foreigner so they never saw themselves as British.
I’d like to hear shinnerbots opinion, surely he’s not just content to jump in on other people’s comments?
Fiachra the brits hire mercenaries for hundreds of yrs to defend there coastline against the invading Irish . There where many attempts the Irish made to invade Britain as did many other countries that fail .
The Irish invaded Britain first.
A lovely song.
The British Soldier.
By Mr Harvey Andrews…1972
don’t know why tommy is getting all that heat, he is right. Ireland was not a colony, and had a different relationship within the british empire as opposed to the american colonies etc which were colonies.
1801 – Act of union. Ireland was part of the united kingdom. it had representation in the house of commons and other legislative differences in comparison to the colonies. The key difference between ireland, and say scotland, being the obvious, Ireland never wanted to be part of the UK. unfortunately that’s how things were tho.
Ireland was part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.
You’s must be crazy in the cuckoo,
So how did being part of britain help us during the Great Famine! for example.
No, we were exported to the colonies as slaves, to Montserrat, Antigua and Barbados, mostly. Or as prisoners or subsiside famine refugees to Canada and Australia. Learn your history first. Then learn how to understand it, only then can you ever even aspire to manipulate it.
Go back to school T Whelan. Battle of Kinsale, Flight of the earls, Cromwell etc etc
Uneducated comment
The PIRA didn’t exist in 1916, 1916 belongs to the IRB & The Volunteers.
Yes, yes, lets listen to the people who signed away our republics sovereignty tell us how to celebrate the rising.
Would any of the heroes of the rising have allowed germans to force private debt onto our citizens the way michael martins party did?
Answers on the back of a brown envelope please to the drumcondra mafia.
Did SF or The IRA rape children? No, it was individuals who did!
Sf raped children ! Really ? Have you info on this. Have you brought it to the Gardai ?
Patjoe fg ff covered for brendan Smyth, George gibney etc, what’s your point?
If you gave the slightest damn about the victims of child abuse, you wouldn’t be putting smiley faces at the end of your post.
i certainly do give a dam about them as i have repeatedly stated. its your lot i could give a dam about and am laughing at. nice try though, pathetic as usual…
Child sex abuse was covered up for years by fg,ff, lab ,catholic church, garda and department of education
In the instance of the church they to apologised for rogue priests!
Wer jammin If you had a shred of decency you wouldn’t be a lap dog to Gerry and troll every post on the journal from SF HQ … You don’t tho !!!
Patjoe like edna only care about abuse victims when they can exploit their plight for political gain.
Patjoe
This is the SF way of dealing with victims #Harass #Harass #Harass
Why do you call yourself je suis Ireland when you have northern part of Ireland blocked out from your photo?
Northern Ireland is a Separate country to the Republic of Ireland
Encase your Slow it’s the Republic in the picture ;)
Well why don’t you change your name to “je suis republic of Ireland” ?
Haha your twitter account Mrtittler!
Has “Je suis rep of eire”
Why didn’t you translate it properly?
Encase……*in case.
Not enough Characters
Pajoejoe123 your a bit strange!!!!!!!!Stay on topic there is nothing in the article about child abuse.
Je suis – Your silly map has Derry City , not in Co. Derry – but in Co. Donegal ?
You, Unionist Conservative FG Party supporters are very poor at Geography and History !!!
It is important to hijack/rewrite history for political purposes.
Care to poimt out which victims were harassed and how?
These tit for tat comments from politicians are getting old fast. He did this, they did that, he said this, they said that. Shut up and do your job.
Jog on troll.
Remember when you couldn’t spell democracy?
Hah….the troll protect democracy….or is it protect democacy(?)…. got his comment deleted.
Dermot – your hurting, but the truth hurts! Now run report me to mammy again?
Dermot the Delusional SF troll. – crude at that
Well played Comrade Mc Loughlin.
It’s you’re rather than your….I’m not here to correct your grammar, I’ve already taught you how to spell democracy, isn’t that enough?
FF sold our country off to speculators , bankers and developers they can F.uck off with their tit for tat rubbish .
And ff hijacked our country. Let’s hope they don’t get it back
Hijacked through democratic means … Awful isn’t it?!
No,they got elected through democratic means.
What they did when they got there? There was nothing democratic about that.
You have to be a thick wind up merchant C.J shit
Referring to Sinn Fien as “the only party with no direct connection to 1916″ requires some seriously blinkered and distorted logic on Martin’s behalf.
If SF have no direct connection then FF, which formed 10 years after the rising as a result of a split in SF, have to be in the same boat. Admittedly deV founded FF – but if he wants to use that link he has to conveniently forget that deV was also a member of SF and was it’s president at one point.
In the interests of full disclosure – I despise all politicians equally. Except Stephen Donnelly – he’s lovely.
Exactly…. 1916 Sinn Féin and 2015 Sinn Féin are exactly the same as they have the same name.
So what ?
The PIRA didn’t exist in 1916.
Are Fianna Fáil still here? Can we make them disappear completely in 2016 as a gesture to the Leaders of 1916?
Yeah Michéal, maybe more money could be allocated to the councils if it weren’t for the billions which have been pumped into the HSE over the years – the lovechild of yourself and “Fill my pockets and run” Ahern.
It’s a pity fianna fail didn’t act when people were being burned out of their homes in 60s and 70s
I must expand on Fianna Fail’s “Flawed Pedegree”
Haughy.
Flynn ( father and daughter)
Liam Lawlor.
Ray Burke.
Doherty ( the phone tapper)
Ivor Callelly
Bertie.
O’Dea. ( these are just some of the ones caught out )
There isn’t enough space to list the incompetents. All the last cabined.
De Velera and the Irish Press?
There was also a guy called Cowan if my mind serves me right !
I bag the first cuckoo of spring
I think the USA might have been the first colony to break free?
Will this FF muppet ever disappear from Irish life for the sake of everyone!
SF/IRA are an embarrassment to ireland
Patjoe, you are an embarrassment to ireland
Patjoejoe is more of an embarrassment to the evolution of mankind since the mid nineteenth century at least…
Fianna Fáil has woke up and released they need to do something after Sinn Fein made public their series of events for 2016- but it seems poor Fianna Fáil are still in the planning stage and the best events have already been booked by Sinn Fein-
Referring to Sinn Fien as “the only party with no direct connection to 1916″ requires some seriously blinkered and distorted logic on Martin’s behalf.
Is this wreckage of a political party trying to slither back up the cliff? The country has suffered enough because of the systematic wrecking ball propelled by FF and FG, as for hijacking an unpopular and bloody rising during the biggest meat grinder in human history they are all welcome to it.
Something very wrong snd silly about this story. Back in 1916, fianna fail didn’t exist, but sinn fein did. In 1926, a group of sinn fein members split and founded fianna fail so now……. politicians from fianna fail are argueing about how to celebrate something they done together back in 1916. Honestly, martin seems so out of sorts now that he’d start a scrap with his own shadow!
Sf was formed in 1905 the very first party in ireland the one and only through republican party in ireland.At the end of the civil war we got fg the blue shirts after they killed their own people namely the ira the very people that were fighting for a united ireland.THE Free state army killed more irish then the brits did.Ff were anti-treatyites the ira but sf are the very first real republican party.Fg took the brits weapons to kill their own during the civil war the worst of the worst are in government thats why they dont care about their own people ._.
Its all about the popularity and votes for the next election, soooo greedy. He’d sell his own mother for a vote!
Be jesus he is a bollocks
IRA and Sinn Féin no link to the Rising. ? IRB, Irish Citizen Army, the Irish Volunteers, all became the de facto Army of the Irish Republic IRA. While Sinn Féiners played individual roles as formerly IRB Citizen Army or Volunteers, it was the British governments branding of it the Sinn Féin Rising that lead to the massive rise in SF popularity. To say neither is related to the Rising is just pure revisionism by Me Hole. Sure where were Fianna Fail in 1916? Grow up me hole
SF/IRA won’t take part in the official state 1916 commemorations. Seems Right. They didn’t take part in 1916 Rising either.
Their laughable attempt to hijack same will stick in most peoples stomach who well remember their short & violent history. The men of 1916 were democratic. The SF pretenders of today are clearly a “one man fantasy band” Marxist organisation.
well said
“SF/IRA won’t take part in the official state 1916 commemorations. Seems Right. They didn’t take part in 1916 Rising either.”
Actually the Irish Volunteers did take part in the 1916 rising and the Irish Volunteers (Oglaigh na hEireann, ring a bell?) became the IRA in 1919.
“Their laughable attempt to hijack same will stick in most peoples stomach..blah blah…The men of 1916 were democratic.”
The “men of 1916″ consisted of a very large range of men with very differing political views. For example James Connolly, de facto commander in chief, was a communist and not a democrat. Indeed he was a prominent marxist theorist. You would have known that if you had any knowledge of Irish history beyond sloganeering.
Protect Democracy could you please enlighten me as to where the men of 1916 got there democratic mandate from
I love all this ‘mandate’ talk.. You hardly have referendums before a revolution. Cancel July 4th and 14th as national celebrations if that’s the case.
Deegan- it’s clear it’s you who needs to have a few history lessons ! Comrade Putin & Fidel would not be impressed with you !
A failed rebellion by people acting without mandate?
It’s no wonder fine gael and fianna fail feel so attached to it.
“Deegan- it’s clear it’s you who needs to have a few history lessons ! Comrade Putin & Fidel would not be impressed with you !”
Like I said, dumb sloganeering.
You should go back to school Pd…..that’s if you ever went at all…..and learn punctuation, history and grammar.
I understand you’re hiding behind a fake Twitter account but I still like to read coherent and articulate comments when browsing through this news site.
I thought the commemoration of the 1916 rising was to be inclusive to all the people of this Island of Ireland irrespective of what political party you belong to or politics you vote for. So can someone please explain to me why the main party FG and some other grubby party called FF are trying to put down the largest party on this Island SF who more people voted for and have a larger mandate then any of them from commemorating the Easter Rising the way they and there supporters see fit. 100′s of thousands of people vote and support Sinn Fien and they will commemorate 1916 however they seem fit, just like they have “every year”
I’ve never voted FF, and never will, but I agree with Micheal Martin on this. I owe nothing to SF or PIRA.
Well I live in the North and I do as do many here. When Irish governments turned their back and ignored the plight of their northern countrymen it was Sinn Fein that stood by us and continued to fight for equality and an ending of partition. How so many have forgot that part of the country is still under British rule. Suppose its easier to forget about it than to actually face up to it. The men of 16 must be proud….
SF/SDLP have played a massive part in getting the six counties into 32.
move on from the republican group’s attempt to tarnish the events of 1916…. it was the ira that hijack Dublin that fateful day in 1916. next he will be telling us there was no casualties, Collins and de valera shook hands with the brutish and asked them to leave nicely the British have said it was illegal, the people hounded the men of 1916 on the streets that changed when the British shot them,..FF/FG or should i say FG/IRA FF/IRA would have us believe it was some fairytale, it created a civil war. FF/FG have continue to adopt the divide and conquer rule and very good they are at it as well.
Im not a sinn fein supporter in any shape or form although i would consider myself a nationalist, and i was a former fianna fail supporter in my youth. As a lot of us were. But this crap about the IRA completely ignores the conditions that led to the provos campaign. Sectarianism and blatent ethnic cleansing by loyalist murder squads, both paramilitary and state sponsored, was bound to lead to atrocities in response. Northern ireland from inception was akin to apartheid south africa, were the value of a catholic life meant little to the protestant majority. And what did our politicians do to help? Nothing. Last irish leader to send any help north was Collins. I in no way condone any of the violence against civilians carried out under any banner, but what option did the nationalist community have? The IRA were, unfortunately, a necessary evil. One that we can all be glad there is no need for anymore, but to say there was never a need is to ignore our history. And those who ignore history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of yesteryear.
Coming from the leader of a party who sold the very independence of the country over to the IMF and EU by wrecking it to suit their own greed ….the leaders of the Rising would be turning in their graves….. Shame on you
The first colony that they lost. Does he not realise that 6 of our counties in our province of Ulster are still colonised and under occupation or is he the same as dame Edna kenny and sees our 6 counties as a foreign country. You failed the real visionary men of 16 micky martin when you sat at the cabinet table and oversaw the the sailing of our country down the river and into the hands of the troika.
Are ff claiming responsibility for the murder and myham of easter 16.
Michael Martin is so far removed from what it would take to be revolutionary.
in true fashion the IRA were nowhere to be seen in 1916 coward then and cowards now
Are you and Tap Solny twins?
Given that the IRA did not come into existence until after the Rising that is asking a bit much of them.
The IRA hijacked illegal armed insurrection and FF want it back. They also hijacked cars, blew up property and people, were involved in rape and sexual abuse – does FF want this as well?
So did the FF-era IRA, what’s your point?
Think I’m going to vote Sinn Fein now just to annoy you!
Michael who?
Privileged to be in attendance at the launch today at the RCOS, the commemoration should be inclusive to all the people of Ireland but unfortunately SF/IRA have already tried to hijack it. Shameful from the provisional movement.
Ollie, your sainted former leader , Charlie Haughey, didn’t seem to mind the IRA too much when he tried to buy guns for them.
” Shameful from the provisional movement.”
As a member of FF, I think we can take it for granted that you don’t understand the concept of shame.
Hey Ollie, remember when fianna fail ruined this country?
Ireland was a colony.it was exploited pillaged and women and children raped by the detested English. More irish died in the great irish genocide than jews in the second world war but they label it the irish famine when English soldiers forced the deportation of our livestock,poultry etc because their crop were failing also.this will always be remembered and never forgotten. You cant go 30-40 miles in any direction in rural ireland without famine mass grave sites .
Commemorating a failed coup d’etat laughable ……why is it we don’t celebrate the real independence day ????
Because we haven’t had independence yet.
First colony the british empire lost……what about america?
Ireland wasn’t a colony in 1916, it was part of the UK
Yeah, it was doing really well as an ‘equal’ member of the UK, highest child mortality rate apart from calcutta, largest slum areas in Europe. Proper nirvana..
@Tommy Whelan and supporters: if Ireland was not a colony, why then was Winston Churchill present at Anglo-Irish Treaty negotiations in his capacity as Secretary of State For the Colonies?
A lot of hot air from a selfcentered hypocrit trying for political survival. Insulting the brave men and women of 1916 for political gain is beyond belief. Time for FF to rid itself of it’s biggest liability.
Amen
Let’s vote on it
Does he not mean 14th Colony?
The US, at the time, was made up of 13 colonies (indicated by the increasing number of starts on the flag but the 13 stripes)
Such an utterly crap statement Martin. The majority of political parties in Ireland were happy to ignore how our country achieved its freedom and a large majority of the public played along. How anyone can buy such a crappy PR fuelled statement is beyond me. I know I will be utterly pxssxd off when 2016 comes around and we have to listen to the sanctimony of these cardboard centre parties and their bar stool supporters bleed on about something they are usually only too happy to ignore!
Martin is a dead man walking and will be ousted as party leader even after entering government with Kenny after next election This is the talk of a man desperate to gain lost ground to SF who are the real and honest REPUBLICANparty
Fianna Failed
Can someone remind Mr Martin that we only got 3/4 of the country free. The 6 counties in the north and its people are every part of this country and nation. Successive Irish governments turned the other way when their country men were being butchered in the north from partition. Maybe Mr Martin is ashamed of his parties record when it comes to ignoring the north. Lets face it the only time they actually talk about the north is to attack Sinn fein. The leaders of the rising set out to free all of Ireland and lead all the Irish people. How has Fianna Fail any right to claim anything in common with the men of 16. Even his use of the word country to describe the 26 counties and esclude the north is against the spirit of what those men fought for. Sinn Fein the first Republican party in Ireland are the only party that can rightfully claim to represent those ideals that were fought for in 1916.
Fianna Fail are damaged goods and are unlikely to lead a government for many years to come Party made a huge mistake in leaving some of the old guard at the helm ie MARTIN/O DEA/COWEN name alone stinks They should have rebranded like NEW labour in britian some years ago with new young guns leading ie McGrath/Dooley etc If Martin was shafted FF vote would increase considerably Send old boys to the backbenches for good Might be infighting in party in short term but they would have better long term prospects by far
Totally agree. The IRA drenched our heritage in blood, often that of children and innocents, and not in the name of the Irish. Time to reclaim our history from the bombers of Omagh and the abductors of Jean McConville
If the volunteers could see what you lot have done to the people of Ireland today you lot would be lined up and shot. Shame on the lot of you
the same party who sold the proclamation crying about defending 1916
yes 1916 needs defending but from FF,FG and Labour
I am actually beginning to loathe this man.
There is some weapons of mass destruction on here ie.patjoe,patsolny etc etc gimps and cretins of the highest order!!!! Fg/ff/lab rentboys..trolls..pity you where not educated in letterfrack the dump your ff/fg pigs installed on our nation.and as for the genocide(famine my hole)
Has he even asked the people of Ireland if they want it back?
No more than the clowns in the GPO asked the people of Ireland if they wanted a revolution.
“If I wish to know what the Irish want, I look into my own heart” said DeValera. Or he could have just asked us.
People who don’t ask difficult questions are usually unsure or afraid of the answers.
And this man represents the threat of namby pamby revisionism, of history being hijacked by Nancy boys and halfwit liberals. Like or not , no IRA = endless lapdog servitude to the filthy poms. Who wants to be scots or welsh?
have your say