Sign in. It’s quick, free and it’s up to you.
An account is an optional way to support the work we do. Find out more.
Updated 12.14pm
A JUNIOR MINISTER has admitted that some Labour TDs, including himself, may miss today’s Dáil vote on Clare Daly’s fatal foetal abnormality bill.
Kevin Humphreys, the junior social protection minister, told Morning Ireland that it may not be because of the particular vote but because “a Dáil deputy’s schedule is a very busy schedule”.
His comments come as party colleague, Anne Ferris, prepares to oppose her party and vote for Daly’s bill. The vote is due to take place in the Dáil at 5pm. The government is opposing the bill on the advice of the Attorney General that it is unconstitutional.
“First of all it’s a Tuesday, many people have the different things to do, and different commitments. I myself may not be in the chamber because I’m taking legislation through the Seanad today,” Humphreys explained.
“So there may be people missing. It may not be because they’re particularly missing to avoid the vote.”
He added: “I would say the maximum number of Labour TDs that are there, are present, will be in the house and will vote with the party.
Humphreys said that he was surprised by party colleague Ferris’s decision to defy the party whip and support the bill but said the advice was that it was unconstitutional.
However, he added: ”In principle, what Clare Daly has said, I agree with it.
“It’s not really the right thing to do to put a woman on a place to go over and have an abortion when the foetus isn’t viable, is not going to survive and make her go through that nine months. A woman in that position should have a choice.”
The Dublin South-East TD also appeared to agree that the Attorney General’s advice to government on this issue should be published and said that the wider issue was the need to repeal the 8th Amendment.
Speaking on his way into cabinet this morning, Public Expenditure Minister Brendan Howlin said Labour had a long record of campaigning on issues surrounding abortion law, but that the bill being proposed would be “cruel”.
“We want to give real redress to these people, real solutions to these people, not enact legislation that constitutionally is infirm and therefore will have no effect for them. That, I believe, would be cruel.”
Elsewhere, while Sinn Féin plans to abstain on tonight’s vote, Fianna Fáil will allow free vote.
The party’s health spokesperson Billy Kelleher plans to vote for Daly’s bill while its children’s spokesperson Robert Troy said he remained undecided.
“I believe the idea of a free vote would allow this parliament to mature and have a very open debate on this issue, that it wouldn’t come down hard and fast on party lines,” Kelleher said.
Speaking outside Leinster House today, Kelleher called on the government parties to allow a free vote among their TDs, arguing the constitutionality of the bill can only be tested by the Supreme Court.
The Cork North-Central TD added: “I don’t see why the parliament is always obliged to take the Attorney General’s advice. The government is, but the Dáil certainly isn’t.”
Last night, Anne Ferris confirmed her intentions in an interview on RTÉ’s Claire Byrne Live last night, saying: ”It is a matter of principle for me.”
The Wicklow TD will automatically forfeit the Labour whip with her vote against the government, the party’s chief whip Emmet Stagg confirmed to TheJournal.ie last night.
Speaking to RTÉ, Ferris said she was willing to accept the consequences of her decision if it results in her being expelled from the Labour Party.
The bill is above politics.
Ferris said that she has been campaigning for this all her adult life.
“I am pro-choice and I make no apologies for it.”
She clarified that the vote today will not enact legislation, but is merely allowing it to go on to Committee Stage, where the bill will be gone through line-by-line by legal experts.
Ferris said that Tánaiste Joan Burton had not been in contact with her about her decision or the impending vote.
There is growing unease among backbenchers at the prospect of the government again opposing a bill from the United Left TD that was debated in the Dáil last Friday.
Labour will hold a special briefing on the legal advice from the Attorney General in a bid to convince uneasy TDs of the reasons why it must be opposed.
This is set to take place at 3.30pm today before a Dáil vote sometime after 5pm.
The bill would provide for two suitably qualified medical professionals (an obstetrician and a perinatologist) to jointly certify in good faith that the foetus in question is suffering from a fatal foetal abnormality.
Proponents of it have argued it does not confer any new rights in relation to abortion, merely clarifies existing rights and, they argue, it is constitutional.
However, speaking for the government last Friday, Health Minister Leo Varadkar said the bill was flawed legislation and would require a referendum which the government has no mandate to do.
Labour’s official party policy is to seek the repeal of the 8th Amendment which provides the mother and unborn child with an equal right to life. But the party argues it currently has no mandate for a referendum and would seek one after the next election.
Just one Labour TD, Joanna Tuffy, spoke on the bill last Friday, saying she believed it was unconstitutional.
Other TDssaid to be particularly uneasy about opposing Daly’s legislation are Ciara Conway and Michael McNamara. Several Labour TDs contacted by TheJournal.ie yesterday did not return comment.
It’s thought that several could fail to show up for today’s vote as happened last December when 13 Labour deputies failed to show for a vote on a bill that would have provided for a referendum to repeal the 8th Amendment.
Dublin Mid-West deputy Robert Dowds said the issue could not be tackled until the 8th Amendment is repealed, and added: ”That won’t be until after the next general election.”
There have been calls on the Labour leadership to allow its TDs a free vote on the legislation.
However, this could prove problematic as a whip was applied to Fine Gael TDs during the debate on the Protection of Life during Pregnancy Bill in 2013 and several members of the senior coalition partner were expelled for opposing the government.
Speaking to LMFM yesterday morning Meath East TD Dominic Hannigan said that he didn’t know why the AG’s advice was that the bill is unconstitutional.
“I want to hear what the legal expert says before I make up my mind,” he said.
He said that many within the party would “love to support Clare’s bill” and added that the “time has come for legislation on this”.
- additional reporting Christina Finn and Daragh Brophy
First published 10.22am on Monday, 09 February 2015
To embed this post, copy the code below on your site
Clare Daly is not putting forward anything radical here. The bill is something any humane and reasonable person should support.
It will only water down legislation and before you know it we will have abortion on demand … Pro life all the way
I have to agree Niall
So Linda, you think it’s ok to force women to give birth to children who will die within hours or are already dead because of your paranoia?
This is nothing to do with pro-life or pro-choice Linda. You can believe abortion is wrong, but feel like it’s okay to end the suffering of a child that is never going to live outside the womb, who is going to be born into horrendous pain and then die. This is about parents who are losing a child, and making sure they’re not being put through more suffering, and children who are never going to live being allowed to die with their own family in their own country.
It’s a totally different debate from abortion on demand.
We already have abortion on demand, we just have to travel to the UK to avail of it.
I can’t see any problem with Clare Daly’s proposal, why should a woman be forced to bring a dead baby to full term and endure labour and the risk of her own death?
I am pro life, but I 100% support legislation that will allow for abortion under circumstances where there is a significant threat to the life of the mother or the baby. I’m fairly sure we will never end up like America where life has no value whatsoever, so you can relax, Linda.
Oh but Linda is “Pro-life” meaning she is only for life if you live it by her principles!
How Linda has time to read the Journal, I’ll never know, because she is so pro life she spends as many hours a day as she can, helping all the people in Ireland who are being abused, sick, homeless, etc after all she’s PRO-LIFE!!!
Oh no that’s right pro-lifers only worry about children who aren’t born yet, once they take their first breath they are no longer their problem.
Pro-Life eh Linda?
You’re pro for any life other then the mothers, to hell with her.
Nail on head, as ever, mrs S
Linda will still be able to choose what she wants to do should Daly’s bill be passed
The stress of carrying a child to term with no possibility of intervention is too much for some women. Its too emotionally painful. Its cruel and its unfair and its not at all “pro life”..
I dont personally know of any woman who has been through this. So the only knowledge i have is reading stories which i find heartbreaking.
I do hope we see TMFR very soon. Its tragic that a couples only options are to go to full term OR travel to England and get their much wanted childs ashes sent home by courier.
Linda please stop using the words pro life in this context. Everyone is pro life except murderers and serial killers!!!
Linda, not only is your comment offensive, your views are cruel and inhumane.
Sinead, I know of someone who did have this happen to them, they travelled to the UK for an abortion, she went public about her decision and after that received lots of parcels from ‘pro-lifers” more than one of those parcels contained human excrement!!!
And keep on travelling
No but it will not be long before you will have bills to abort kids with Down Syndrome
While the bill in itself is sensible the worry for many pro-life campaigners is that it would open the flood gates to abortion on demand campaigners. What many of these pro-lifers forget is that the only way that can be changed is through a referendum.
If the child will die anyway, doesn’t it make sense to potentially allow the parents to conceive a healthy child that would survive for a lifetime after birth?
Carrying a child that will not survive outside the womb, taking up the space a healthy child could occupy with a constant reminder every day for the parents, is no good for anybody!
Lindabar is back with their paranoia and arguments a 5 year old would make
And i will have the last laugh when that pathetic marriage equality bill is defeated
Lindabar,
Exactly what has this article got to do with the marriage equality referendum?
So Linda, as a woman, imagine you are a mother, you have one or two little kids, you find out you are expecting again, you tell your children and they are so excited. Four months into the pregnancy you find out your unborn child is not going to survive. They can’t tell you if you will miscarrie, maybe you will carry to term and it will be stillborn or maybe it will survive a few minutes outside the womb.
So now after that devastating revelation you have to try and wrap your own head around it, then tell your kids and then make a decision. Do you keep going, maybe let your kids see your belly expand and every day wonder is today going to be the day? Or do you end all suffering as much as you can? What ever decision is made is up to the parents. nobody has a right to judge. I personally don’t know what choice i would make in this situation. However getting on a plane, leaving your support and flying to England should not have be part of the decision.
It’s nothing to do with pro life or pro choice. It has to do with being humane and looking after people who find themselves in this awful, cruel situation.
Haha, Lindabar proves my point of their immaturity by offending my previous profile picture which was a picture of myself.
Nothing better Lindabar?
Paul Murphy’s and his other Councillors arrest today ensures an even tougher ride still, for Labour & their Fascist Overlords in FG !
Always worried about what other people might do, Finbarr/Linda? Little bit of advice – how about you attend to your own daily life and leave serious and intimate matters of family life to the family in question? It is because of your ilk, and the eighth amendment, that we are still having unnecessary maternal deaths – you will notice that I don’t say YOU because It appears to me that you are probably of tender years and I am uncertain as to your educational needs.
Cop on
Do we know as a fact that the child is born into “horrendous” pain?? We do know the child will die. The parents must exercise their choice one way or another and either choice should be facilitated for. If the child is born can the parents then donate the child’s organs for transplant? The question of what constitutes a person is very important here? Is the child a person at the moment directly preceding a birth or after? Has the child a right to live for those moments immediately after birth even though it will certainly not live?
It is perhaps the worst tragedy for parents who through no fault of their own may be faced with such a decision.
Internet Troll. Any reasonable person would understand that two medical professionals in good faith would never agree to a termination of a viable pregnancy, furthermore you are the kind of extreme basher that lacks any empathy for your fellow sisters in their most vulnerable state. For. Shame. I hope you never get put in the position that your happy to let others be in because I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. Wake up!
I’m with you there Linda, this looks like the thin end of the wedge to get abortion on demand.
No one knows what sex lindabar is because he/she is linda AND finbarr, and makes very poor effort to keep this under wraps.
Now, as for “pro life”, pro who’s life?
In cases of fatal foetal abnormality, the foetus is not capable of life. Even if it manages to be kept going until birth it will die. So what “life” are those making comments about being “pro life” trying to preserve?
No one on this earth wants these babies to live more than their parents. But there’s nothing that can be done to make sure that happens, so why drag out the torture? The diagnosis is heartache enough.
As for the slippery slope argument. The reason Claire Daly is pushing this bill is because, like I said above, these fetuses are as good as dead already, and given rulings in other cases it would be fair to assume that as the “unborn” is not capable of life that it’s “right to life” is not engaged, so how can you vindicate this right?
This is a long way away from down syndrome abortions, or abortion on demand. Those abortions are carried out because the woman does not wish to continue the pregnancy, not because the pregnancy is doomed and she likely wants to be able to conceive again sooner rather than later (in fact, the majority of repeat abortions in the UK are older women who get FFA diagnoses repeatedly and wish to maximise their chance of delivering a healthy baby).
The “thin end if the wedge” is the slippery slope argument. If A happens then Z will automatically happen, despite the fact that there’s a road block at every other letter along the way.
If this was legislated for under the 8th amendment, then it would still require a repeal of the 8th to widen access. This would mean the majority would have to vote on the matter. If we vote to widen abortion access then the wedge will indeed get bigger, but that’s democracy. Abortion access cannot, I repeat CANNOT be widened without a public vote.
As a matter of interest, if the public did vote to repeal the 8th, would the anti choicers accept that? Seeing as how they refused to accept that the people voted against the removal of the “suicide clause” arising from The X Case, TWICE. They still wanted it left out of legislation..
Micheal, I wouldn’t consider it a “right to live” considering some of the conditions we’re talking about here. The ability of the child to feel pain varies case by case depending on the exact conditions and how they have affected the pre-birth growth of the child.
Isn’t it much more humane for everyone involved to terminate the pregnancy before the child can grow to a point where they might feel pain rather than bringing them to term when they might feel pain and will certainly die?
What dark ages are these people living in?
Abortion is Murder. A Crime Calling to Heaven for Vengeance.
Let them be Born and Baptize them. The 5th Commandment, You Shall not Kill, ( Murder).
Td’s are not God.
Poraic, look up the legal definition of murder. All the religious people can make a choice not to terminate. Stop forcing your opinion on others.
Factual and logical as always from the religious. : / Great comment Poraic O’hEipicín. :/ But for the non – religious, can you say something less pious?
Stop pushing YOUR god on those who dont believe in him
I’d doubt anyone ever ‘demands’ an abortion. It’s not a decision people take lightly.
Absolutely Chris; I hate the term “abortion on demand”, as if one simply goes to the abortion clinic and “demands” their abortion like they would a bag of chips.
So why would the baby die because of Linda’s paranoia? You should try using commas. Totally change the meaning if a sentence.
We do have ‘abortion on demand’, it’s just that it involves Ryanair. Maybe replace that additional element with compassion for those in a dreadful situation.
Exactly Kitty!!! I think shes a Troll!!!!
Those children will die whether Linda is Paranoid or not, that was unfair.
I agree with the bill.
@Porage:
Get well soon.
well said Niall but be advised to expect the standard contempt for womens autonomy we’ve always seen. This needs to go to referendum ASAP
“And i will have the last laugh when that pathetic marriage equality bill is defeated”
Glad you can take so much pleasure from other people being treated as lesser than you. You are pathetic.
Yup. Big mistake Labour.
This government has had repeated opportunities to show us that they have moved on from old fashioned corrupt politics that put parties before the people and they have missed every single opportunity to do so.
@linda…. I do not know why pro life people are so afraid of bringing in abortion. If they are against abortion just don’t have one. Simple ! But you have to right to try and impose your will on the rest the country who do not agree with your ideas . You are not the Moral police ……….. Let people make up your minds.
labour it appears dont do humane and reasonable
I don’t believe that claim RMcG made. Have you evidence for this or are you just trying to work up hatred.
@Sailtee How dare you insinuate that I am a liar, the story is very true, I don’t have pictures if that’s what you need as proof, but the lady I refer to I know to be honest & I have no reason to doubt her word.
Hey Salitee, you lied about the method of termination used on this very page, so it’s not like you’re a paragon of virtue..
Sapien, that commenter is an American Anti-abortion activist masquerading as an ordinary commenter on this Journal. Wonder how many more of them there are. The Journal seems to seek all sorts of details of who we are, how come the same doesn’t apply to these people?
That’s a good point Sheik, any Irish person would realise that is not how to spell that name..
“Poraic” sounds like someone trying to spell Irish phonetically.. And as for the surname, what on earth is that supposed to be?
I have commented from personal experience on this topic over the last week. Claire Daly is not my ideal politician but she’s trying to move this country forward and I admire her for that.
As for Linda and all the other pro life supporters – until you are in the situation where you know your child is dying, inside you, don’t get up on your soap box to preach.
“Linda and all the other pro life supporters” <- A better economy of words can be produced by simply using the word "vermin".
I get confused sometimes are we in 2015 or 1915? Hard to tell with backward TD’s.
2015
Not to mention some of the comments on here.
She’s right, it’s not unconstitutional anymore than turning off a life-support machine
Even a stopped clock….
You got to love Leo “no mandate” for a referendum…you had no mandate to pay off other peoples debts but it didn’t stop you.
Cowards the lot of them, grow a pair and do the right thing.
Have to admit I love that line too, “we don’t have a mandate to ask the people a question at the ballot box”
The shinners said the same
It’s not like turning off a life support machine. It’s a late-term abortion. The baby – who was not in any pain until then – will suffer.
Yes Sailtee, and birth will be wonderful. Suffocating to death of having all your organs pack in is lovely isn’t it?
Salitee. Ask around, the women from TFMR, you know, the ones who have actually been through it rather than relying on biased information from a lobby group, they and doctors will tell you.
The method of abortion used is BIRTH. It just happens prematurely because it is induced. These women give birth, hold their babies, grieve and then hand them over to be cremated and sent to them in the post because they can’t bring the dead body home.
If you need to lie to make your case then you don’t have one. Give it up.
As someone who has personally been through this Claire Daly is right this is not about abortion on demand. I found out I was pregnant with my much wanted 1st baby in September 2013. Then when I got to my 12 week scan was told “there’s a problem”, what followed was weeks of clinging on to hope and having endless tests as I so wanted this baby. Then at my 16 week scan I was told my baby didn’t have hands, didn’t have a lower jaw (so wouldn’t be able to feed or breathe unaided), her heart had a irregular ventricles and a hole in it and her liver was growing into her stomach, squashing and would eventually cause it to burst. This baby would either die before being born, during birth or very shortly after it and if that was the case whatever short existence she had would be excrutiating. I’m from Ireland but I live in the UK and in this way was lucky. I had a termination and was treated with nothing but dignity and kindess. My baby had a peaceful end and I still had to go through labour and birth. And unlike many of the Irish ladies I was able to have a funeral for my baby.
It is appalling making women carry a baby that will never survive or having them make the choice to travel to the UK like fugitives and have to leave their much wanted babies there or have their ashes delivered in a cardboard box. I don’t believe you should just have abortion on demand but this is not about that. It’s about people’s human dignity and protecting the welfare of the mother whether that be protecting her physically or psycholgically and limiting what is already the worst thing that can ever happen to a parent.
Karen, I’m unspeakably sad at your loss. And for all those parents who have experienced it. I cannot imagine how awful it is. There is NO good reason to vote this bill down.
Thanks Jeanette (have used alternative log in). It was the single worst year of my entire life and it was only through the care and understanding I received from the NHS that I managed to get through. These ladies don’t even have this. They are made to feel ashamed. And all the pro-life are saying is that can offer is extra hospice care. I don’t see the point. It’s causing extra suffering. Not to mention what the body goes through bringing a baby to term and the recovery afterwards. And having to endure people seeing you and getting excited only for you to tell them this baby isn’t going to live. It’s absolutely torturous and I can’t understand the pro-lfie argument who say it’s about the sanctity of life. The baby will have no life whereas the mother does and this kind of thing could destroy a person.
Karen, my deepest condolences. I hope that you have had success since.
I’m sorry this country failed you. I know myself and others will do all in our power to ensure that this inhumane treatment is brought to an end as soon as we can. No one should have to endure what you went through.
My mother had to bring my sister to full term and unfortunately she didn’t survive, this was over 20 years ago and my mother still can’t talk about it. I’m sorry for your loss but glad you got treated right and I hope your next pregnancy is a success. I can’t even imagine how difficult this is for a woman.
deepest sympathies Karen and fair play for sharing! just shows you what a bit of compassion as per in the UK can do compared to the fear, subjugation women endure in ROI
Karen I am so sorry for your loss
Thank you for your reply but luckily, if that’s the correct way to put it, I live in the UK so was well looked after by the NHS. I would love to be able to do something to able promote this cause. It is disgusting that this is happening to Irish ladies every day. On a positive note I am currently 22 weeks pregnant and everything is going really well. x
This is ridiculous, if a baby has zero chance of being born without excruciating pain for a couple of hours before dying shouldn’t it be up to the parents to diside, can any of the pro lifers here tell us if they have spent time either as a parent or direct observer of such a situation, I haven’t but even just imagining what it’s like is unbearable.
From what I’ve seen, it’s only the die-hard pro-life supporters who would oppose a bill like this. The moderate supporters can recognise that, in the cases that this bill is designed to address, the child has absolutely no chances of survival outside of the womb for more than a few hours.
I have seen it happen first hand and I am a Pro-Life supporter.
I agree with the principle of the bill and would like to see it introduced to give parents an option where there is no doubt that the baby wont survive birth.
I’d like to see more pre and post counselling being made available to help parents in this awful scenario – and IMHO is the biggest area we could improve upon.
Absolutely hurler. The counselling aspect is of the utmost importance. Great suggestion
Lone Hurler,
We’ve disagreed on a lotta topics, but I have to say, I 100% agree with you here.
I too am glad to find some common ground with Hurler. We frequently disagree, but realistically, only someone more concerned with ideology than the actual reality would oppose this bill.
Shanti
I would support Clare Daly on this one..
But just to point out that parents should get full support and care throughout if they wanted to continue with the pregnancy and not ever feel compelled to terminate because our health services wouldnt provide proper counselling etc. I think thats very important..
I think the options at the moment for mothers diagnosed with FFA are ridiculous..
Sinead, that should go without saying really. Just because the option to terminate is there does not imply an obligation to do so, nor should it.
There are women who will choose to continue their pregnancy no matter what. That is their choice to make and I wholeheartedly agree, they should receive all the support they need, it’s an incredibly difficult thing to do and I salute anyone who feels strong enough to carry to term in such tragic circumstances. But if a woman feels she cannot continue with a doomed pregnancy, she too should receive support and the option to be induced early to end the suffering if that is what she (and her partner) feels is best.
At present it seems you only get support if you choose to carry to term. Otherwise you are told “travel or tough luck”. This, to my mind, is unacceptable.
Causing a lot of trouble for labour…. ???? Really …think hard about all the suffering that we have had endure, think of all the problems and utter heartache it is to carry a dying baby…think of all the future families that will have to suffer this barbaric treatment due to your inability to make a stand. sorry for your troubles labour but don’t be cowards make a stand and do the right thing.
Well said Arlette Lyons.
xxx Arlette. And we both know that at least one other government TD has faced this.
Labour TDs sending out the line that they don’t want to vote against this, before dutifully and inevitably voting against this. We’ve seen this movie ten times already. If you support the bill, vote for it, if not, spare us this conflicted conscience BS.
It is incredible that anyone would oppose Daly’s position on this issue.
I don’t agree with her economic politics, but on moral issues she is an invaluable part of our democracy.
Ffs just pass the bill, sick of hearing/ seeing this tripe every day!
As I have mentioned many times before, I am in my sixties, am a life-long Labour voter, and am absolutely HEARTSICK at what the Labour party has become. I have also said, and I meant it, that I will devote every spare moment and bit of energy remaining to me to ensure the defeat and, indeed, the obliteration of what now passes for the proud party I voted for in my youth. Labour, I warn you now, your treachery up until now is appalling and abysmal, but if you once again vote down a bill designed to aleviate terrible suffering in a section of our community, at no cost or disruption to us the vast and lucky majority, then you consign yourselves to the cesspit of history. Poor oul’ Barry Desmond would take to his bed at the carry on of the current mob.
Sheik, I’m in my 60s and feel the same. Sad to see what Labour has become.
I hear yah :) life long Labour supporter, my grand dad along with frank cluskey and the old Labour Party are spinning in their graves.
Here we go again, politicians allowing the Catholic Church run the county again.
Oh dear Jesus what would fr mcnally make of this?
2015 not 1956.
Read the article three times but could not find the part where politicians said that they can’t vote for it because the Catholic Church said so… can you guide me to the part in the article?
It doesn’t need to be in the article thelonehurler, everyone can read between the lines.
Trevor, i think it is more than simply a catholic thing. This government dont want to see any sort of sensible, compassionate legislation being brought forward by the “likes” of Clare Daly They dont want to be seen giving it any support whatsoever, regardless of how right and just it is.
FG and Labour are sick, selfish, and completely out of touch with people. They wont do this because they are afraid of how it will affect their chances of getting reelected.
The only thing Labour is “pro” at the moment is holding on to their perks and expenses til 2016 because they know they’ll be obliterated. No rocking the boat and keep brownnosing.
Show some backbone and common sense. Support Clare Daly’s bill. It’s the right and compassionate thing to do.
As for constitutionality – if it’s possibly unconstitutional Higgins can refer it to the Supreme Court to test it. The AG does not have a role in deciding constitutionality – that’s the President and Supreme Court’s job.
Typical politicians. Make a big fuss about how they disagree with or ‘feel uncomfortable with’ something and then vote for it anyway.
Either support/vote for it or don’t. Stop trying to pander to both sides of the debate.
In the end, they’re making a song and dance so you’ll forgive them for putting their career ahead of pressing national issues come the next election.
All parties including Sinn Fein should have an open vote on this very important matter. No excuse for sitting on the fence.
My sincere sympathies to every parent who has to go through this hell. If a baby cannot survive outside of the womb it is NOT abortion. I see absolutely no compassion in forcing women to carry babies full term who will be born n die in pain _ this is not merciful to anyone. I wouldn’t share all of Claire Daly’s convictions however I applaud her for having the cahoneys in raising this issue.
I’d personally like to see Joan Burton arrested if she decides to continue to support this barbaric treatment of couples who have to go through this ordeal.
Only Joan? Why not Enda or the Minister for Health? Fine Gael have nearly half the seats in the Dail so shouldn’t they be responsible too? Should Sinn Fein be criticised for abstaining, Fianna Fail for having a free vote? No? Ah yes, I understand now.
Yes, all them too if it makes you happy. I think it’s crazy that people are being arrested for so called kidnapping of Joan Burton while she supports this barbaric treatment of couples. As someone who has personally gone through this pain you I understand the eternal frustration and disappointment that people in these circumstances are feeling. The fact that people in government are digging their heels in and not supporting this is a disgrace. You might have given me time to answer your question before you answered for me.
As normal the backbenchers will back down and fall inline, bunch of cowards.
You hit the nail on the head, the vast majority of Irish ‘politicians’ are moral cowards when it comes to abortion. They are so frightened of the vocal anti-choice shouters and ravers and the religious taliban of the catholic church and various other religious groupings that they are paralysed and running scared. Ireland is an international laughing stock when it comes to the issue of abortion and how it has been handled by these political pygmies and the population at large, these yellow streaked politicians who put their own re-election above that of the suffering of women and families who have to go through the kind of pain and anguish so eloquently described by Karen Reynolds in this thread. It is beyond contempt that these cowards are once again dragging their feet on this issue yet again, the same old nonsense from the same old parties which has gone on for over 30 years. It’s ridiculous and it’s shameful that in the 21st century the Irish are still living in the Victorian era when it comes to the rights of women. It is inhumane to allow this to continue and Burton only shows why Labour are finished with the likes of her at the helm. Don’t get me wrong the other parties, Fine Fail and Fianna Gael (what’s the difference?) are equally to blame for this latest shameful foot dragging. Ireland as a country needs to grow up and get on with tackling the abortion issue once and for all. I watched a documentary on the BBC last week entitled “Abortion. Ireland’s guilty secret” it highlighted the very issues we are discussing along with the fact that thousands of Irish women from North and South are having to travel abroad to have a termination because they can’t have one in their own country, typical Ireland exporting it’s problems rather than dealing with them. It’s disgusting that Daly’s bill is being opposed like this it just shows that for all the talk of Ireland moving on from catholic domination the sad reality is that it is still firmly in the grip of the Romans and their medieval mindset.
making tough decisions not really in labours remit, they usually choose the weasl’s way out.
“Health Minister Leo Varadkar said the bill was flawed legislation and would require a referendum which the government has no mandate to do.” You didn’t have a mandate to bail out bondholders at the taxpayers expense but you did it anyway, funny how they can pick and choose what they have a mandate to do and not do.
It was the infamous FF government which bailed out the bond holders.
It is somewhat ironic that the majority of our young population who would be effected by this legislation are way more educated and have way more educational qualifications than the T.Ds in Dáil Éireann who will be making the decisions for them. Forget about party loyalty and do the right and vote to support this bill. This is from an old age pensioner and a father of five children and a grandfather of sixteen grandchildren.
There is something sick and horrible in our parliament. A majority of MPs support this. A consensus of the people support it. But it cannot happen because a disease has eaten away at parliamentary democracy in our country.
* Deliberately avoiding the Irish terms, Oireachtas and TDs, so that the disease can be seen more clearly.
No more close ups of Joan Burton please
No mandate for this piece of legislation Leo. There has been a lot of legislation without mandate or debate that this group of traitors brought in
Labour are assuming they will have ant TDs after the next GE!
Joan burton is finished after Paul murphys arrest the people of west dublin will make sure she is political dead for ever (how dare ye protest u pheasants)
Have her arrested again, problem solved. It’s all the rage.
I’m sure the whip system will soon sort out all that free will nonsence
The labour liars and and nodding dogs yes I will Joanies will do what they have done for the last 4 years, swallow it
To terminate or switch off a machine on a loved one is the most unbelievable painful experience ever & i’m talking from experience. We received medical consultation from a number of different consultants & i know we made the right decision. If there is a medical reason for a termination then it should be available. As for people who haven’t a clue what they are talking about to make that decision is just wrong. I will never forget the Doctor who gave us the best advice which was “you have to live with your decision & if you can live with it then it;s right for you” We made the right decision Would I do it again! I have no idea what I would do if i was put in that position again but I would hope I would do the right thing for everyone.
Just because a Bill is proposed by a TD who is not in the Government should not mean that it cannot be passed. Nobody has a monopoly on good ideas.
Duh! Dominic, Marie Whelan is an unknown fine gael solicitor who was given the job to ‘assist’ the government…She is not independent just like some of FG’s judicial appointments who haven’t a clue…fine gael corruption
Left wing and Isis supporters of death.
The ‘I’ve nothing reasonable to say and REALLY want to Godwin but can’t so
……ISIS, yes perfect, I’ll go with ISIS’ response
You’re as cunning as a fox
Isis should be the new Godwins.
Yeah, maybe it should be extended to include them. Paddy Scully calls LGBT people the taliban, equally as ridicilous. So that could be added also. Boko Haram too, let’s preempt that one
Ah, tis yourself, realgael – and the many other voices in your head. How’s she cutting?
“You’re as cunning as a fox”
News??
TD’s who don’t turn up to vote because they disagree with the whip are cowards at least there is 1 TD in Labour still with the courage of her convictions.
Well done Ann Ferris, just a pity the other so called labour TD’s will not join you
Pro-Life = against democracy. They are forcing you to have it their way. If bills like this will be passed – everyone will have their choice and the pro-life activists can still do it the old and medieval way if they want to. Everyone would be happy. But nooo. They want YOU to live THEIR way. What a bunch of radical fanatics.
So basically, they can blame a busy schedule for not having the balls to stand up and vote?!? I do hate my country sometimes, being run by such spineless bads****s
As this story keeps developing, it should really be given a new post, so instead of voting ‘Nay” or “Yay” they are just going to not show up for the vote COWARDS!!!
Sack the lot of them!
We should organise a petition to give to Leo, to show him there is a mandate for this vote!!
For those TDs who dont have the kahunas to turn up and represent their constituants as they are elected to, in a Dàil vote, will their constituants remember that when they call to your doors next year!!!
So this is what Labour has now become. The party that is totally against everything it votes to support and totally supports the things it votes against.
Am I the only one who sees the spectacular irony in that headline?
Ha, being expelled from the labour party is doing her a favor.
The system is broken beyond repair. They should give back their wages. Their contempt for democracy is sickening.
The Labour Party would want to remember, before they take any action against Anne Ferris, that there is overwhelming public support for legislative change that allows a woman to make her own choice about whether she carries this kind of pregnancy to term. I admire Anne for taking this stand, whatever the consequences for her own career.
Leos’ some spoofer, When has not having a mandate ever stopped this government from doind things?
All that the Labour Party want is abortion on demand!
Sick!
What on earth does this have to do with abortion on demand? The only sick thing is trying to conflate the issue.
These babies have no prospect of survival. The humane thing is to induce labour early and let the woman birth the child. Which is what they do in these situations in case you were unaware.
But I’m guessing you weren’t. If you were you might have at least an ounce of compassion.
Well Leo, you in FG and Labour have no mandate on anything, you all lied to get into power, therefore you are there under false pretences and represent no one but yourselves.
Wimp.
By the way, having read the article a second time I must say Kevin Humphrey’s remarks are egregious, to say the least. “We’re busy people, busy, busy, busy – the plight of couples in the worst situation of their lives can wait until we have a minute or two to spare”. That is actually the gist of what was said. SHAMEFUL LABOUR PARTY.
So what… her seat is lost anyway
This woman has voted with her party on issues that put young workers on the bread line, then pulls any sort of safety net from underneath them, but this is where she draws the line? Biggest political stunt ever!
Ye shower of muppets Jo public is watching ye (election mode it’s not just water)
can’t see how this is even news
Anything except a free vote is pointless for any situation as its been proved again and again.
Another thing that pisses me off is how they opt out for whatever excuse they come up with, we the people put them there for the very reason to vote for these matters and if they can’t be bothered they should be docked a weeks pay for everyone they miss.
50 shades of grey. Sure she will be lost without the whip .
It has nothing to do with Pro Life or Pro Choice. It is the usual religious B’**S Ireland can not seem to rid it self of. It the elephant in the room no one want to talk about or own up to!
And the excuses start from Labour. There is nothing more important than voting in this bill.
Even rats know when the ship is sinking time to jump save ones self.
Rats are a bit more intelligent than Right wing Christians. They won’t quit until they’re extinct. We have another 50 years of this shit I would guess.
Anne Ferris hoping that this will save her come next GE16
Im pro abortion but anti daly so it would be a no from me
So you’ve no idea how to stick with your convictions. Got it
i would hardly think anybody is too interested in what you think on this or any subject as you show such immaturity in your posts
they could be washing their hair or something just as important. daly can wait
have your say