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The interesting bits you need to read from the David Drumm ruling

Harsh words.

LAST NIGHT, A judge in America disallowed David Drumm’s bankruptcy bid.

Throughout his ruling, Judge Frank Bailey explained why he upheld 30 of the 52 objections to the application by IBRC and Drumm’s court-appointed trustee.

The judge said he found Drumm “not remotely credible” and other such damning statements were speckled through the 122 page document.

Drumm had filed the application in an attempt to walk away from €10.5 million debt he owes to IBRC (formerly Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide) and others. Those creditors can now pursue him.

Here are some of the most interesting things the judge had to say:

The key findings:

Finding Drumm not remotely credible and his conduct both knowing and fraudulent, I conclude that the plaintiffs [IBRC and the court-appointed trustee] have established cause to deny him a discharge many times over.
Drumm’s statements to this Court were replete with knowingly false statements, failures to disclose, efforts to misdirect, and outright lies.

A succinct description of the Irish banking collapse:

The fall of 2008 was a very difficult time in Anglo Irish Bank’s history and led in just months to the bank’s demise. During September 2008, in Drumm’s own words, the world was “falling apart”, and the second half of September was “Armageddon”. Lehman Brothers had recently gone bankrupt. AIB [Anglo] under Drumm’s stewardship, faced enormous pressures, a plummeting share price, the prospect of government intervention, and potential loss of its independence. As Drumm testified, it was an “economically bad time in Ireland”; “the markets were in turmoil”; “the share price of Anglo Irish Bank had collapsed”. On 19 December 2008, Drumm resigned his position at Anglo. On 21 January 2009, Anglo was nationalised under the Anglo Irish Bank Corporation Act 2009; the Act vested all shares of Anglo’s stock – which had in any event become all but worthless – in Ireland’s Minister for Finance and re-registered Anglo as a private limited company. Anglo Irish Bank was defunct.

And the effect it had on the Drumm family home:

Anglo’s collapse dramatically affected the Drumms in several ways. Until his resignation, Drumm was under great stress at work. Mrs Drumm said “he was working all the hours god sent him” and was never at home. She feared he might drop dead of a heart attack “because that’s what he looked like most days”. The stress and long hours put a strain on their marriage; she conceded, however that his long hours, and the strain they placed on their marriage, were not new but were constant over the two preceding years. For his role at Anglo, Drumm became the focus of considerable and inescapable media attention, not favourable.
Anglo’s collapse also affected the family financially. Drumm’s resignation terminated his substantial salary. His prospects for future employment in Ireland had considerably dimmed. The Drumms had real estate holdings but the recession had undermined real estate values. Much of the Drumms’ net worth had been in Anglo stock, which had secured Drumm’s debts to Anglo and now was worthless and, in any event, had been nationalised. He owed a ruinous sum – in excess of $11 million – to Anglo, which surely would demand payment and likely commence legal proceedings against him.

The five ways the Drumms responded:

According to the judge’s summary….

  1. From September 2008, Drumm began to transfer assets to his wife, Lorraine.
  2. They moved to the US in June 2009.
  3. In January 2010, they purchased a home in Boston using a “substantial portion of their now-liquidated holdings”.
  4. In August 2010, Drumm tried but failed to negotiate a deal with the IBRC to avoid litigation.
  5. On 14 October 2010, Drumm filed for bankruptcy.

Did the judge believe Lorraine Drumm when she appeared as a witness?

The backstory from the judge: “Drumm maintains that he made these [the 2008] transfers, and others in 2009, because Mrs Drumm implored him to do so. And she insists that she did so not out of concern about his creditors but because she could envision a future without him – their marriage was severely strained, and the stress on him made her fear for his health – in which she would need to provide for herself and her children. She therefore asked him to transfer some money – “like a million euro,” she told him – into her name, so that she could control it herself.

I do not doubt that Mrs Drumm asked her husband to transfer money to her sole name, or that she was motivated by the concerns she mentioned. I do not believe she was motivated by a need for protection from possible alienation from Drumm any more than she was motivated by a fear of Drumm’s creditors. Indeed, I do believe that each of them was motivated first and foremost by desire to shelter their assets from seizure by Drumm’s creditors, especially Anglo.

“Their salutary concern to protect Mrs Drumm and their children gave rise to action because creditors would soon be seizing family assets; concerns about creditors and solvency certainly account for the timing of these transfers. Concern for family does not negate concern about creditors and desire to thwart them. Amongst the insolvent, these often go hand in hand.”

Did the judge believe the transfers were loans between Lorraine and Drumm?

I have found the plaintiffs have carried their burden of proving that the “loan” of $250,000 is a fiction, an accounting treatment after the fact. There was never an inter-spousal loan or payment on any such loan, just outright transfers between the spouses. And even if the Drumms did in fact agree to a $250,000 loan before these funds were transferred to Drumm, the nature of their agreement – with no obligation to repay at any time and no accounting for advances and payments – shows it not to have been a true loan at all, just a transfer with a false label.

On Drumm’s reasons for ‘forgetting things’ on his bankruptcy forms:

The overall sense is a man casting about for any plausible answer but the truth. The variety and inconsistency of his diverse answers, and the lack of conviction with which he delivered each, undercut whatever credibility any one might have enjoyed had it stood alone.
I conclude that Drumm was not surprised on 1 April to learn that his omissions from SOFA 10 had been in error. The expressions of surprise that he memorialised in an email and a phone call were not genuine but affected, for show, when Drumm realised that he would have to explain his omissions.
Drumm is intelligent, very sophisticated in the kinds of accounting and financial issues he was addressing…, meticulous, involved in the details of his bankruptcy filing, controlling, not one who would simply turn these matters over to counsel to handle for him. Over a period of two years, while insolvent and facing legal action on $11 million debt owed to IBRC, he had carefully transferred considerable value in case and real estate to Mrs Drumm, to keep it from IBRC.
He is not credible or truthful and has made misrepresentations at every stage of these proceedings.

And the car sales?

At a 7 December meeting with creditors, Drumm was asked whether he had vehicles in Ireland.

He said he had two and that “we” sold both. He referred to the BMW, of which he had been the sole owner, as his wife’s car. He disclosed that he had received €20,000 for it but not to whom it had been transferred or when. He’d disclosed that he’d sold the Range Rover for €35,000 in or around June 2009 but didn’t identify the transferee or mention that she was his sister.
Given Drumm’s general lack of credibility, his failure to disclose numerous other transfers to his wife, and the fact that one of the purchasers was an insider, the preponderance of the evidence does not support Drumm’s position. I find that he acted knowingly and fraudulently  in omitting the automobile sales and the disposition of their proceeds.
The omission of the BMW served, and was intended, to keep a transfer to this sister from disclosure to other creditors, the court and the public. I find that Drumm omitted the transfer of the BMW with intent to conceal and mislead.

Drumm said he cooperated with his trustee. Did the judge agree?

Drumm’s cooperation… was limited, delayed and shaped to his purposes. I find that Drumm’s record of cooperation, such as it is, only reinforces the conclusion that his omissions were knowing, deliberate, and intended to hinder, delay, and defraud the trustee and IBRC.

Has Drumm now disclosed everything about his finances?

The judge said he could make no such finding.

On what basis can the court believe that the full extent of Drumm’s assets and transfers has now been disclosed? Certainly not on his word for it, which is all I have, and therefore I can make no such finding. In short, Drumm has not earned the benefit of the doubt.

IBRC argued that Drumm used a ‘so stupid’ defense. What did the judge make of that?

I need not attribute Drumm’s conduct to stupidity; indeed it may well have been the product of cleverness. Perhaps Drumm was emboldened by a sense that he could invoke the “so stupid” defense against the consequence of his actions, the plausibility of the defense being directly proportional to the scope and brazenness of the offence.
Drumm is a quick thinker, adept in testimony intended to deflect, misdirect, avoid, fabricate. His accounting and knowledge of his financial affairs is detailed, precise, almost obsessive. He is confident in his strategising; and by the time he filed his bankruptcy petition, he had been planning and strategising for two years. No bumbler, and clearly a controlling type, he knew what he was doing. He was highly motivated to protect the Wellesley property. He withheld information and controlled its release for some perceived strategic advantage. That he misunderstood SOFA 10 as to some transfers and simply forget others – the very matters which he was most concerned in this case – this is exceedingly implausible. I have no trouble finding him capable of the kind of stupidity of which he stands accused.

Read the judge’s 122-page document, in full, on TheStory.ie>

EARLIER: US court calls David Drumm on his “outright lies” as he fails in bankruptcy bid

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69 Comments
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    Mute Clare Bear
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 12:20 AM

    My grandfather was diagnosed with vascular dementia a couple of years back, my mum left work and cared for him full time (she never claimed carers allowance or anything like that) but in the last year it became too much for us, we couldn’t look after him home anymore, he needed a level of care 24/7 thatwe just could not provide. It took us over a year on waiting lists and phoning every week to even be approved for the fair deal and then another 18months waiting for a bed. He finally went in somewhere in December just after Christmas, his health has improved so much since he went in as he is receiving the care he needs that we just couldn’t give.
    Without the fair deal we couldn’t afford the care he needs, were contributing as much as we can from our own pockets and using his pension to make up the rest. This is a proud hard working man who worked his whole life and paid his own way, people complaining that “we expect things for free” we don’t expect anything but an old person, especially one who needs care that a family cannot provide should be looked after, you say “someone has to pay”, he has paid, he contributed for 67 years, his wife did too, his kids all contribute and his grand kids. Is it too much to ask that he be allowed live the rest of his days with a bit of dignity ? Even if we pooled all our savings we couldn’t afford to pay all his fees and the only person who suffers is him. I would much rather knowing my taxes are helping pay someone’s home fees than lining a politicians pocket.

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    Mute Joe Harbison
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:24 PM

    Billing someone for necessary health care because they develop dementia, become frail or suffer a stroke is deeply inequitable. I people protest regularly on this site that paying €200 per year for what they say is a basic right. People on the Fair Deal have to pay €600 or €700 / week to get nursing care but it’s quietly ignored by most the population. The great majority of people ending up in nursing home are there because they need to be there to get the care they need, not because they want to go.

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    Mute Eugene Curtis
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:51 PM

    Ok, but where does the money come from?

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    Mute Joe Harbison
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 12:03 AM

    An argument for you .hypothetically your parent gets dementia and dies after several years in a Nursing home. All their savings are used up and after they die you have to sell their home because 25% of its value is owed to the state. What’s left is subject to inheritance taxes but for each child the first €200000 is tax free so most escape that. On the other hand my parent gets Cancer and is treated by the state for free with the exemption of a €100 per night hospital charge capped at a grand. The Cancer treatment fails and they are cared for free in a hospice. Myself and my sibs inherit everything.
    What is the difference? Sheer bloody luck. So pay for it with a wider spread inheritance tax. People who care for an older person at home get a tax break or carers allowance for saving the state money. If people want a posher home then let them pay more for it, but the basics of necessary care for all our old people should be borne by all of us.

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    Mute Kieran OKeeffe
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:19 PM

    No country for old men (or women)

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    Mute Darren Kennedy
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:22 PM

    The youth have essentially been subsidising the elderly throughout the entire crisis. I read a report in the Irish Independent which showed that overall the elderly were actually up money since 2010.

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    Mute Joe Harbison
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:35 PM

    So we’re generalising. ‘the youth’, what youth exactly? Does Johnny Ronan count as ‘the youth’ what about Sean Quinn’s kids. The elderly? Are we talking about the large number of pensioners who lost everything when their ‘safe’ pensions invested in Blue Chip shares like BoI and Allied Irish became worthless overnight whilst the bond holders were bailed out. I wonder if you’d think whether the bond traders were ‘young’ or ‘old’. How about the old people I meet who’ve entire families have had to emigrate, they’re the luck ones alright.

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    Mute Sheik Yahbouti
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 12:28 AM

    Why don’t you just go and annoy people in Belfast, “Darren “. What we do here need not concern you. I’m sure you’d be a wow.

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    Mute Aisling Brady
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 12:59 AM

    what goes around comes around. You are young now and subsidise the elderly and when you are old the next young generation will subsidise you. This present generation of elderly were once youths in a much tougher harder regime than the present one.

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    Mute Niallers
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 7:30 AM

    Darren, I think you need a hug.

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    Mute Shelia White
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    Apr 4th 2015, 1:14 PM

    Its the same here in Qld Australia.My uncle’s (deceased) wife at 94 is in a home.Her house was sold as the family had to put up $250.000.00 deposit, even though they took her pension as well.Anything left over when she dies is left to the family.Disgusting as these were people who had 12 children,worked hard and paid their taxes all their life.Is it too much to ask to be cared for when a person gets old.

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    Mute Maureen Stanford
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:18 PM

    Why is it called the fair deal sceam there is nothing fair about it Bloody Mary Harney

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    Mute Joe Simpson
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 11:42 AM

    Do you know the scheme before fair deal, all assets where in the pot not just this 7.5% over 3 years. Why should taxpayers with zero hard assets be trying to leave an nest egg for someone elses children.

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    Mute Irene Honer
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:35 PM

    The fair deal scheme was never sustainable ! With long term costing on average €1200 per week (60k) per year (Dublin region).
    Most pensioners on state pension and having a modest valued home would not even cover one weeks payment each month!

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    Mute Vaibhav Borse
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:23 PM

    this sounds just like another elderly care insurance or elderly care tax. everyone has to pay it but only some of them will need it…

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    Mute Darren Kennedy
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:19 PM

    A fair decision by the government. Some people will always expect everything handed to them for free.

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    Mute Joe Harbison
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:29 PM

    If, God forbid, you get Cancer you will have more or less every cent of your care paid for by the state. If you need a transplant, the same. If you end up with a terminal illness thankfully, hospice care will be provided for you, free of charge. If you suffer a stroke or dementia and can’t go home the state will make you pay for the care you need right up to the second you die even though it would for many, cost less than some of the Cancer treatments and transplants. It is an expedient decision by the government, fairness has nothing to do with it.

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    Mute Eugene Curtis
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:54 PM

    Again Joe, lovely sentiment, but someone must pay here – so who pays for all of this free stuff you want to be given out?

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    Mute Dermot Mc Loughlin
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    Apr 2nd 2015, 11:59 PM

    Eugene…..f**k off with your new Twitter account you sad troll.

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    Mute Joe Harbison
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 12:09 AM

    Who pays for the cancer care? Who pays for the Soliris drug, paid for by the state at €400,000 per person per year? Who pays for the Special Needs assistants that are provided for free because Kids need them.? Should parents be forced to pay for them if they can afford to. Remember the outcry here and elsewhere when people with chronic illnesses had their medical cards withdrawn. Who pays for the Garda? Do we introduce a rule that you should only have to pay for them if you get robbed?
    The frail elderly are an easy group to single out for treatment.

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    Mute Andy Potts
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 1:48 AM

    TAXES

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    Mute Jensen Vhrin
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 6:45 PM

    And I just want to emphasise that it is not always the elderly that end up in nursing homes. Young people, middle aged people with young families also end up in care homes.

    I agree with you Joe, people are so reactionary about costs at the moment that they forget that other people besides themselves also pay taxes and they would be the first people up in arms when they realise they were being shafted.

    The questions come down to basically this, are some people more equal than others? And, is it okay as long as it’s not me? How much do we value the suffering of others? And what is the financial loss in being a decent human being?

    If the current scheme doesn’t work. Find something that does. But increasing the burden? That isn’t sustainable and when the burden is based on the nature of your medical misfortune…that is just not equitable. A scheme that works by seizing the financial assets of the incapacitated and the elderly, is a scheme that is broken from the getgo and one divorced from the reality of individual circumstance.

    Those who need the fair deal scheme for care, are not the ones who can afford it.

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    Mute Niallers
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 7:37 AM

    You judge a society on how it treats its weakest citizens. Health care for elderly should be paid for out of general taxation. Dementia is a medical condition. Cancer is a medical condition yet dementia sufferers are expected to pay for their medical care in a safe environment.

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    Mute Jack Mulveen
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 2:18 AM

    Ronan you forgot to mention as part of the 7.5% per annum for 3 years on your assets you also have to pay 80% of your weekly income every week until death. So if your total assets are 400.000 and your weekly income inc pension is 400 per week nursing home will cost you 896 per week for 3 years then reduced to 320 per week at existing rate

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    Mute Maria
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 12:12 AM

    Lets face it, this country cannot afford to pay for long term care. People are complaining about water charges, if we have to pay for nursing home are we can minus at least another 100 euros from our pay check. I have no problem with the government taking 50% of the value of the older persons home. People in this country don’t want to pay for anything and as the saying goes nothing in life is free!

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    Mute Andy Potts
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 1:49 AM

    AGAIN OUR TAXES

    16
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    Mute Jensen Vhrin
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 4:32 AM

    My father has early onset Alzheimer’s. My mother had to give up her job to be his full time carer. They’ve been paying taxes all their working life and if but more likely when he needs full time care we will loose up to 22.5% of the value of our home, where me and my mother live having only paid off a mortgage that cost a fraction of what they will want us to pay based on “value”. And that fraction took 30 years to clear. If my mother predeceases my father this causes even more difficulty as it is my home, what happens to me? I moved home so my mother would have support, a few hours peace here and there. There is nothing ‘fair’ about taking any security a family has because one of them was unlucky enough to fall foul of a horrific disease is his mid 50′s. Our home is in a suburban council estate, my parents worked hard and bought it and my mother paid it off hoping for some security mortgage free as she will likely be on a sole pension by her later years. Under the fair deal we would have been better off and more secure being council tenants rather than home owners. What a sorry state of affairs that is.

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    Mute Joe Simpson
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 12:04 PM

    So your family have an asset of a 200k house, fair deal will at max charge 25-30k leaving an asset of 170k. As a council tenant you’d be paying rent of up to 100 euro every week forever and have no asset. Sorry but there’s no comparision

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    Mute Jensen Vhrin
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 6:33 PM

    My family have a roof over our head. The only security we have. it is not an ‘asset’, it is a home, shelter is one of the basic requirements for survival. We haven’t got a mansion in Killiney, we don’t even have a car. Our home is something that my parents worked their asses off for while paying taxes that are supposed to be used for collective social resources in case of illness as well as communal needs such as roads etc. My father got sick with a disease that can’t be preempted or prevented. It is not self inflicted, there is no cure. He is on a long and horrific downward spiral. However, if his fortune led him to a different disease that meant years of inpatient or outpatient treatment, hospice care etc he would be covered. But some illnesses deserve more benefits that others? Is that the rhetoric we want? Cancer is a more cost efficient disease than Dementia? Heart Disease more than stroke? As it is my mother cares for my father full time, saving the states thousands in care costs and sacrificing her own remaining years which is heartbreaking to see. Had my father been a single man with no assets this wouldn’t be an issue. So why is a family home fair game because of the nature of the tragedy? Nobody should be punished because they fall ill. You say there is no comparison, but 100 euro a week, between me and my mam, budgeting and scrimping is a lot different than a max charge (upwards of 40k actually) levelled in one go against the value of your house. Meaning you can’t even downsize because you are already on the lowest property rung of your area and the percentage will be taken against any sale of a house. As it is my family is being punished financially because of the design of the illness my father suffered from. This is a man who worked nights my entire life, sacrificing time with his family to make a home that is being pillaged because the government believes that all people will Alzheimer’s have houses that only they inhabit, that all people will Alzheimer’s are 70+ when illness strikes? Over 4000 people in Ireland today have Alzheimers that is early onset, that can strike as low as their 30′s. I met someone in their 30s with a severe form of MS in a nursing home so it is not just Dementia. Should his young family be punished because of this misfortune? The comparison lies in the burden that is placed on people who are faced with a MASSIVE financial burden that they would not face if they were not property owners. They would also not be faced with upgrade and repair costs, maintenance etc.Like I said before, my mother JUST paid off the house. It was a burden off her mind and it gave her great piece of mind. For awhile. Until she realised that eventually my dad, would be too much to manage and she may need to put him into care, a horrible thought to even entertain but that is the reality of caring for someone bigger, stronger than you who looses themselves. You talk about the value of the asset, as if 200k is something tangible. Money we could pull from thin air. Not the actual amount my mother paid for it that like I said before took 30 years to pay and is less than half of the amount we would owe under the fair deal. A fair deal that asks 3 times the initial mortgage you just paid off? Maybe 25-30k (40k) seems like small fry to you. We are not people with hundreds of thousands in savings accounts. I’m a graduate currently trying to get only an employment ladder that isn’t low paid internships. My mother was a hard working sales assistant who worked right up until the day she had to look after my Dad. It is not ‘fair’ to devalue the only thing we actually have to our name. And to say that ‘somebody’ has to pay for it? Because we have paid our taxes just like you. The only difference is that you may be lucky enough the avoid such a badly dealt hand of faith. And I wouldn’t wish this illness of anyone in the world. But we shouldn’t be punished for it.

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    Mute William Mcgee
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    Apr 3rd 2015, 11:36 AM

    Not much comments about the payment of property tax taken from people just to live in their Own Homes .

    8
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