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Updated 5.10pm
ALL OF THE European Union’s 27 finance ministers have now agreed to extend the repayment dates of Ireland’s European bailout loans.
The Eurogroup, meeting in Dublin Castle this morning, agreed to extend the maturities of Ireland’s loans from the EFSF and EFSM bailout funds by an average of seven years.
This was followed by a meeting of all 27 member states’ finance chiefs – Ecofin- who agreed in principle and “subject to national procedures” to lengthen the maturity of the loans by seven years.
Earlier, Jeroen Dijsselbloem, the Dutch finance minister who chairs meetings of the Eurogroup, said there had been no major opposition to the proposals.
Approval was needed from all 27 ministers as the EFSM is funded by all 27 members, whereas the EFSF is funded only by the 17 countries who use the euro.
The agreement means Ireland will have longer to repay its loans, and reduces the cash that Ireland would have needed to supply in the forthcoming years in order to begin repaying the European arm of its €67.5 billion bailout.
The deal is expected to have a positive impact on the prospect of Ireland being able to borrow enough money from private investors that it will not need any further funding from the EU or IMF when its bailout funds run out later this year.
A similar extension has been granted for Portugal, but remains provisional until parts of its 2013 Budget – which were struck down by a domestic court last week – are revisited.
A joint-statement issued this evening by Eurogroup and Ecofin ministers said that they took note that extending the maturities of the loans “would, in the broader context of regaining market access, be confidence-enhancing for market participants and thereby protecting Portugal and Ireland from refinancing risks stemming from developments in other euro area programme countries like Cyprus.”
Before the summit, Michael Noonan had said discussions with his European counterparts had seen broad approval for proposals to extend the loans.
Portuguese finance minister “Vitor Gaspar and myself had a long exchange of views the night before last; I spoke to [EU economics commissioner] Olli Rehn yesterday; I spoke to Vittorio Grilli of Italy and some other colleagues last night,” Noonan told reporters.
“There doesn’t seem to be any significant push-back” against the proposals, he said, though conceding that it was impossible to predict whether any national parliaments could oppose the deal.
Italy is without a functioning parliament since last month’s elections, while Germany is gearing up for federal elections this September – meaning it may be difficult for Angela Merkel’s coalition to sell a deal that would delay the repayment of German loans to Ireland.
Noonan said, meanwhile, that a final decision on whether Ireland would be able to recoup some of its banking costs from the Eurozone’s bailout fund would not be made until next year.
Today’s meeting would host the last of three discussions on how the European banking union, and a single supervisory mechanism for Europe’s banks, would operate. Those discussions would be used to guide a committee which is preparing a document with proposals for how the system could work.
“Direct recapitalisation [of EU banks by the bailout fund] is the last piece of a series of policies that need to be decided before there is a banking union,” Noonan said.
“In terms of a time line, we’re looking at next year. We’re not looking at this year for direct recapitalisation – but then again, we never were. It’s not a question of a delay, it’s a question of things being put in place eventually.”
- additional reporting from Hugh O’Connell
Can we also agree ‘in principal’ to stop referring the loans we were given at a punitive rate as a ‘bailout’?
Spot on werejammin. A bailout implies some type of rescue or assistance. Ireland did indeed bailout its 6 bust banks in 2008 but the EU-IMF (Troika) did not bail Ireland out in 2010. What the Troika did was loan us €67 billion of which €64.1 billion has been used directly to cover private illegitimate banking debt. This does not include the €32 billion we have pumped into NAMA to indirectly prop up the banks also.
We will pay that €67 billion back to the Troika with interest, and in addition they get to have the banking system of the Eurozone stabilised at the expense of the Irish people. Whatever this is, it’s not a bailout. Ireland is digging its own economic grave and the Troika are billing us for the shovel.
Actually Coddler €32 billion of that money was to pay for day to day spending on public services because we couldn’t borrow that money in the market. Ireland had two problems, a banking collapse and a massive spending deficit because of spending based on unsustainable revenues.
People seem to forget that even if we hadn’t bailed out the banks we still would have had to cut spending by the order of around €15-€20 because we couldn’t have kept on borrowing that kind of money. In many way the bank bailout has been a great smokescreen for people to avoid the fact that government spending had gone way out of control in the mid-2000s.
No matter where we got the money from there would have been huge cutbacks.
“Actually Coddler €32 billion of that money was to pay for day to day spending on public services because we couldn’t borrow that money in the market. ”
And we couldn’t borrow on the open market because of the unsustainable private banking losses forced on us by the ECB. See how it works jim?
Ballyhea says NO was in Brussels a few weeks ago and are organising meeting with ECB to discuss the unfair debt burden and how it is destroying our economy and the illegal prom notes. Group of unpaid volunteers doing this in their own time, with no benefit to themselves at all. This group of people who a lot of people don’t even know their names are trying to do more for all of us and our children than our highly paid gov ever did. I urge people to get involved.
Wow! We’ve been given extra time to pay back something we never owed. These cretins really have a lot to answer for.
Jim,
Most countries run a budget deficit most of the time and it’s economic suicide to try and eliminate a deficit in the teeth of a recession as we are being forced to do now. The deficit really only becomes a serious problem when you are unable to finance it as in Ireland’s case. Ordinarily countries finance their deficits by borrowing the money in the market. Or if they control their own currency and are prepared to accept some inflation, they can simply create new money by buying their own government’s bonds etc (Quantitative easing as the Yanks call it). Even in the depths of the 1980s recession, Ireland was always able to go to the market to fund the budget deficit until Brian Lenihan bailed out the banks in 2008. The markets then realised Ireland would not be able to cover the massive banking losses and pay them back and so the interest rate they demanded rose to an unaffordable level. This pushed us into the tender Troika embrace who now lend us the money and charge interest so that we can pay the banking debt as well as our budget deficit.
In reality it’s the government who are using the budget deficit as a smokescreen to justify the implementation of their Austerity agenda and the behest of the Troika. The erosion of our social supports and escalating taxation are the means by which the citizens are being forced to cover private, illegitimate and odious banking debt. Having had €20 billion stolen from us in 2012 to pay off the bondholders, we will hand over another €17 billion in 2013 to cover the gambling losses of financial speculators. The fixation on the deficit is driven by the neo liberal political agenda to distract attention from the looting of the country for the benefit of the financial elite.
Those figures do not take into account the indirect cost of our zombie banks on the budget deficit over the past 5 years. Credit has been denied to viable businesses resulting in multiple closures throwing thousands of people onto the dole where they draw social welfare instead of contributing income tax in a double blow to the exchequer. The bank collapse and bailout is responsible for a large part of our budget deficit in addition to being the reason that we cannot finance that deficit through the normal channels.
Most people would accept the cutbacks and extra taxation if they knew that the revenue generated and saved was being used to benefit our society. However, the government have absolutely no moral authority for any of these austerity measures when the primary beneficiary is speculative financial capitalism. The social contract between the citizen and the Irish state has been utterly broken in the past 5 years.
Spot on Mr O toole
@ Jim Walsh, it was the conversion of private bank debt to sovereign debt which deterred the money markets from lending to Ireland. The State bailed out the banks. In so doing the Government bankrupted the State. Annual deficits are not a problem. It is the impossibility of ever making repayment which took us out of he market.
Dark work was done on the night and morning of the 29th September 2008. It was a step which shocked Europe by the extremity of the irresponsibility involved.
We are a failed State. The Irish Banks were reckless managed, the Central Bank of Ireland was complicit and then the Government bet the wealth of e State on the underwriting of the Banks.
Enda Kenny response to the former IMF lad on six one news yesterday,
The loans we got to pay unsecured bondholders is water under the bridge and hindsight is a wonderful thing but we have to move on.
Water under the bridge my hole. Kenny is a triator full stop.
Itis
It’s a pitty Kenny is not in the armed forces, cause then we could charge him with that.
Still on the e tablets?
Something really doesn’t add up here.
According to the propaganda we’ve been hearing from EU shills, FGers, RTÉ etc, Ireland has been the best country so far in implementing one of their bailouts. We have supposedly continually met quarterly targets, both from EU and IMF inspections. And yet at the end of it all, we’ll STILL need an extra 7 years to pay back this loan.
Anyone able to explain that one to me? David Higgins perhaps?
Simple because they f##ked up the figures,ie they took too much out of the economy(domestic) and now its destroyed and bouncing along the bottom for the next several years.Interesting how its only memebers of the IMF who admit they got it wrong.Seems our politicians and Europe are infalable.
Norman
Maybe Charlie “McGreedy” was right all alone, they don’t know how the Irish economy works.
Simple, they based all there figures on pie in the sky growth figures. The bloody dogs in the street know austerity measures equals no growth, plus world economics etc.
They assume people are basically stupid and will accept what they are fed.
They are right, just look at recent polls and FG winning Meath.
Norman
It’s a simple formula, IMF = good cop, troika = bad cop, govt = bystander
Tried & tested in many countries
They’re not our loans in the first place, so we should be given forever to pay them back.
“In principle”? Has he got anything in writing to this effect, or is it a nod and a wink agreement among honourable gentlemen?
That makes sense. Paying debts that we don’t owe. Do you work for fg.
**sarcasm font**
That argument is long over. Maybe they SHOULDN’T have been our loans but as far as the world is concerned they ARE our loans.
Jim thanks to FG even though Noonan knew the prom note was illegal.Even the so called deal they done is slowly blowing up in there faces.
Great so the money we never owed is going to take us longer to pay back, the banks are saved and now they can get on with the business of repossessions, some of the taxpayers that bailed them out in the first place get turfed out of there homes, all sounds fair to me
What the hell does ” in principle” mean? These guys and gals wouldn’t know a principle if it hit them !
In principle, is code for tell the Press and Media faithfuls so they can pass it on to the Irish Sheep.
Exactly. They are running sacred because the finance ministers will hear the protesters tomorrow. Can’t use RTE te hide them when their right outside!!
Michael
In this case “in principle” means once Angela gets re-elected and the Bundestag agree.
God damn it Noonan, stop getting us better terms on our loans. We’re sick of it.
Damn European Finance Ministers.
I think I’ll join that protest outside!
“Down with that sort of thing”
David you are a very dishonest person,shaping up nicely for a career in politics.
David having read your comments and those of your buddy James yesterday,i come to the conclusion that you haven’t a clue about economics.This despite the fact you claim to be studying the subject in Uni,if you paid fees i suggest you look for a refund.
Ya got in there before anyone complained, so now you look like a loon talking to yourself on Henry st.
Ahh the bullshitter is back
you seem to go missing everytime you are asked to provide evidence on something
a bit like your government
Lastly David unless you missed it,this proposal has to clear the Bundestag or did Noonan forget to send YFG a memo?
Hear hear John
“God damn it Noonan, stop getting us better terms on our loans. We’re sick of it”
And what exactly, david, would you consider acceptable terms under which you should be forced to repay somebody elses gambling debts for them?
Here we go…noun verb FF…noun verb troika…noun verb paddy went mad…noun verb YFG sounndbite of the day.
Ah yes the good deal for Ireland. Converting ILLIGAL promissory notes into sovereign debt. Great deal that….how does it feel Higgins to continue with failed ff policies.
You have surfaced David. About time.
Giving us more time to pay it makes now difference so stop with your spin you sheep. Your a good liar i give you that Higgins, Enda trained you well.
Nothing short of a debt write off is good news David so stop with your spin and i hope to see you tomorrow… On the other side of the barrier of course, we know you have been wooed by FG.
So you would never stand with your people.
still waiting for your figures David
You’ll be waiting a long time John.
That sheltered mammies boy hasn’t got a clue what a real day of work feels like.
See you tomorrow! 12.30 Parnell square, Dublin. Lets send these arrogant snobs a message!
Nice one David. Like poking a stick into an anthill and watching them all scurry about.
There is a moral argument that the banking debts and promissory notes are not ours.
However I’ve yet to see anyone make a credible argument that the money borrowed to fund our public services over the past few years should not be repaid.
These are the loans that are getting an extension under this deal.
Jim same as a well spun news story all the FG fans are over like white on rice,but bad news, near a one to be found.Any thoughts on that?
ahh another bullshitter
claiming the reason that each parties individual policies were not carried out because they had to form a coalition.
their policies were exactly the same jim
read their manifestos
the bondholders
health
government
everything!
your arguement was pathetic and typical of a party muppet!
david you said yesterday that the disparity between rich and poor has closed
where are your figures
David there not! But you hero’s in FG made them ours.
I have yet to see you make a credible reply Higgins. WHEN you do bother replying its usually dodging the question in the first place. Now go back to that little fake fine gael land were everything is grand and people aren’t struggling.
John,David can’t or won’t answer questions,pointless asking him anything.It is distrubing to think David and his buddy James are studying economics considering the rubbish they spouted yesterday.
They’re studying somethin in trinity alright, but its not economics… Use your imagination ;-);-);-);-)
Higgins is nothing more than a hit and run merchant
Let’s presume we default on all the banking debts. We’re still left with the debt used to fund our public services over the years.
Any takers as to why we should default on those debts in particular?
Anyone?
How much is that debt?,David enlighten me please.
figures david
still waiting
yawn………….
“However I’ve yet to see anyone make a credible argument that the money borrowed to fund our public services over the past few years should not be repaid.”
Thats the best you can come up with david? Nobody has claimed that we should not pay back money borrowed to keep the country running. Whos claiming any different? Come on, give us a good laugh……
Anyone? Hahaha Higgins just dodged a question again hahaha
Well trained little lap dog aren’t ye.
Ok so we agree that money used to keep the country running should be repaid.
So why do we have a problem with better terms on loans which served that purpose???
Don’t hold your breathe, Johnny. David ‘Houdini’ Higgins is not an independent thinker, more of a regurgitating FG sycophant who cant think for himself.
Dave, if I worshipped Gods I would pray to them for people like you.
“Let’s presume we default on all the banking debts. We’re still left with the debt used to fund our public services over the years.”
The same public service that your party is hell bent on decimating? Yep, fine gael are all about the public service.
Are you stupid or very smart David?
Which one is it?
He thinks hes smart and that everybody else is stupid.
Ok David spout all you want,unless your willing and able to back it up its just BS.
hes not great with the truth
and thats a fact
figures david and please dont ignore me
if you dont answer this time
your lack of response will be taken that what you said yesterday was a complete pack of lies
well?
Of course it was a pack of lies John, he is in fine gael afterall
David Higgins
Yesterday, 10:25 AM # 143 30
Jack is right. The crisis has closed the gap between rich and poor although since everyone is worse off we don’t feel it. Anyone who owned land, property, had investments etc were nearly wiped out when the crisis hit.
WARNING: This man may make statements which he cannot back up. Anything he says should be taken with a pinch of salt. If you come into contact with this man please make sure your wearing protective gear as he sprays so much shi*e around that you will be covered in it.
Wow. You’re all very brave, Gentlemen…ganging up against one guy.
Higgins you had no comment the other day to the news that the irish tax payer could be open to another 16bn of debt for banks? but I guess your still developing spin tactics.
The big boys are teasing me MAMMY !!
The big boy’s are teasing me,tell them to stop MAMMY !!!
David Higgins AKA, Enda Kenny !!!
@vincent
hahahah
look whos back
the biggest spin merchant of them all
didnt like your other personas anyway
they were muppets!
VD’s back,got fed up being called Dildo?
@norman
hahaha
VD
sounds exactly right!
;)
I know what ill be glad of, the next election david higgins thats what, when fine gael and labour are wiped out forever for the blatantly disgraceful attcks on the weakest in society. Put a spin on being wiped out for good higgins
“Wow. You’re all very brave, Gentlemen…ganging up against one guy.”
Get back to us when we’re attacking women and children like Davids party does every budget.
That’s right Vincent…
Perhaps he talks so much garbage he has built up a number of people who have had enough and caught him out on NUMEROUS occasions.
I don’t hate the guy it’s just he is a spoofer.
There’s no need to spin FG/Labour’s prospects at the next election. They’re bourne out by most opinion polls. Labour will take a big hit, probably losing half their seats if not more, mainly to Sinn Féin and unfortunately Fianna Fáil. Fine Gael also looking at seat losses but not as much. Some polls have shown FF ahead of FG but overall the trend has been FG slightly ahead.
Paddy Power’s odds are an interesting place to look http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/irish-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=591645
Is it now FG policy to use Paddy Power as one of their spin doctors?
David the election is in 2016,as far as i’m aware long time away,alot of good or alot of crap can happen in the interm.As they say the only poll that matters is the election itself.
80′s film called ‘Brewsters millions” comes to mind. Anybody familiar with the film will recall ”none of the above”. I feel like starting a campaign like that.
Irish political system is a joke, we all know it. It’s dis-functional and always has been. Nobody can deny that. Helen Mc Entee is a TD for gods sake, the girls 26 and is in there because of her name.
Gimme a fu,king break lads
Oh yeh and FF are stormin up the polls, somebody hand me the whiskey and gimme the heat.
You’re all heart Vin…… ;0)
She’s in there because she got elected….
@David Higgins Leaving this massive scam called the European Union is the first step David and bringing back our punt, with that we can reclaim our fishing waters, and a tax of 50% on all oil found and sold from our land our water. The euro is a massive scam which will destroy every small country within it…..as you can see already David…..
I know, it’s frightening. Look at Lowry for gods sake
Johnnathan, are you the ghost of Éamon de Valera in disguise?
Why would you say losing seats to f.f be bad as f.f and f.g are basically the same party.
@ignoreland no just stating the obvious…….
@David Have a read of “Confessions of an Economic Hitman” David and it might give you some idea what is happening all over Europe right now……..
I know Vincent, it’s terrible ganging up on one guy – Vincent Dolan/ David Higgins.
How come there were no FG spoofers commenting on the Ashoka Mody story yesterrday Higgins? We missed the FG press office perspective. Was there no way to spin this one?
Higgins all you achieve by spouting is highlighting your own bubble of ignorance, leaving labour aside, fine gael will be be wiped out in the next election.. You are floating along swallowing and perpetuating party rhetoric all the while ignoring the baserate information the exact same as your beloved party are ignoring its ppl. David fine gael do not have the political will of its ppl to govern as they are, there is no support for their behaviour, and rest assured, just like ff, come the time the people are asked just like every article you hide from dave you’ll be hiding again. You are in for a rude awakening if you believe its any other way boy.
The property tax has killed off FG for good and thats a FACT!
“wiped out” can have various different meanings. In 2011 many regarded FF as being “wiped out” although sadly they will recover in time. By wiped out I assume you mean a party losing a sizable majority of its seats. For this to apply to Fine Gael opinion polls would have to show the party well below 20% in opinion polls. While FF have on occasion passed out FG, no poll has yet shown FG at such a low point.
On the issue of the property tax, most people know what they’re due at this stage but this has not been reflected in opinion polls. If this issue was to cause a substantial drop in support it would have already shown up in a poll although there is room for some drop once payments are due.
david your a bullshitter and a liar and your useless at both
away with you back to gombeen college and try harder
@ david your ability to use abstract thought is non existant. But just as now when you ignore many peoples questions, come 2016 you won’t be anywhere to be found, and fianna gael are facing a complete meltdown. Political wilderness for eternity I hope. Its amazing how you fail and are utterly blind to see this. The people voted for change david, and we did not get it. Roll on the next election for two reasons, wipeout, and you hiding forever hopefully never to re-emerge.
Don’t be a complete tool David…debt write down and you might…just might have something to crow on about.
There’s nothing to crow about, for sure. Just another small positive step. Moody’s declaring the move “Credit positive”. We’re one step closer to getting back on the open credit market and out of the bailout. I’ll be happy to drive the Troika to Dublin airport myself.
vincent you can bury your head in the sand all you like
but the trioka have moved in and it was on your governments watch that it happened
it must be embarrassing that your friends in europe dont believe fine gael/labour are fit to run their own affairs
funny thing is though most people here knew a long time ago
Jonny boy- I think you’re just upset your predictions of a second bailout are making you look like a clown. That you didn’t notice that it was FF that brought in the Troika doesn’t make you look all that bright either. But sure look, it’s an open forum on here and you’re entitled to come across as innocent and naive as you like.
VD
you know and I know the troika are here for the forseeable future and if you hadnt of stayed away from the IMF story you would have noticed even they think we will need a second bailout and do you know the reason why they think that
they have absolutely no confidence in the government
none nada zero zilch
even they know they are a bunch of lazy overpaid gombeens
I will tell you again just like i told you months ago
the banks have used the money we gave them to fix their balance sheets and they have no money to cover the bad debt writedown and they have been stringing your bunch of muppets along.
why has the regulator left town in such a hurry without his 100 grand bonus
you are so far behind just like enda
http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/imf-banks-bill-e16-billion-861099-Apr2013/
you can spin all you
like but thats all it is
spin
They are not gambling debts. They are orchestrated fraud and wealth extraction techniques used be central bankers for generations. They use the complete ignorance of most politicians, or bribe politicians who figure it out eg. ex FG attorney generals.
John- it’s pathetic how much you want that to be true. You’re a deplorable Irishman, you really are….willing your country to fail. Luckily, you’re just one of the marginalised, lunatic fringe who jump up & down and make lots of noise but never get near power. Phew!
Where are all the Stephen Donnelly groupies today???!?!?!
vincent
i point out how it is
you point out what your masters tell you to say
whos pathetic
you have changed your persona 3 times in the last couple of months and you call me pathetic
i changed mine because i was banned for putting one of you government lackys in your place and i will do it time and time again to expose the lies and spin the likes of you and higgins peddle
party before country,
pigs at the trough
sticks and stones VD
my son wiped the floor with you here last week and hes 12
now off with you and make a video to tell yourself just how much of a great lad you are
your like the viper in hardy bucks hahaha
ho hum banned again but
we are back!!!!!!!
and i just lovin my new name
P.S.
Frank Cluskey
Verbal Kint
John Cash
all say
your still a muppet vincent
You’re. Not your.
DAVID YOU ARE A BAD MAN AND YOU REPRESENT AN EVIL THAT IS THREATENING ALL PEOPLE ON THIS ISLAND.
DOLAN YOU ARE ANOTHER ONE THAT IS SPOUTING AN EVIL WHICH IS THREATENING US ALL .
@vincent
the only part of the sentence you corrected was ‘your’
so even you agree with me
hahahaha
Vincent… Putting any store by what ratings agencies is a futile exercise. These people were rating Irish banks AAA just weeks before the Troika ambled into town. So saying Moody’s are patting us on the back is, to say the least , naive.
The absolute worse leader we have had.
Him and Cromwell !!!
Michael
In Cromwell favour was that he admitted to holding the Irish people in contempt.
True
More debt burden to be paid by our younger generations. And again, those who caused the financial crisis get away scot free. What a wonderful bunch of lads our politicians are.
See the FG/ Laborer Pushers are all over this spin story.
Tomorrow the European tyrant elite will be wined and dined in Dublin Castle, no expense spared. Joan Burton even managed to steal the children’s communion money to make sure the menu will be to the liking of our Euro masters. If you see the limo’s whizzing around Dublin, with their garda escorts make sure to show them your middle finger, honk your horn, boo them, shout at them to get out of our country. Enda “Diarmait Mac Murrough” Kenny has sold our country to these faceless w(b)anker’s. Join the march on Dublin Castle tomorrow, starting at 12 from Parnell Square.
I wonder has Burton bought herself a new frock for the party with the communion money? And got the hair done? And new shoes?
Enda Kenny sold the county only because his dail colleagues allowed him to and didnt have the spine and likewise for all td on otehr side to challenge in dali and court his authority to act on any term of an agrement burdening the country with bank capitalisatin without DAIL APPROVALa. And I suuget that teh message u sholod be sending out tomoreow for banks are still eating that monye in central fund. Up to U VOTER to tell TDS just that U DONT WANT THAT BANK TER ON OUR SHOULDERS
More progress. Wait for it. Can you hear it?
Cue the outrage…
No outrage O’Reilly if it happens it may help,but like Enda’s seismic shift we’ll have to wait.
I notice however a distinct lack of FG fans anytime there is bad news,case in point how the IMF negioatator admitted they got it wrong
oreilly, would you like to take over paying my mortgage for me? I could probably arrange for the bank to extend the term for another 7 years to ease your burden. If they agree ‘in principal’ can we have RTE film us slapping each others backs for the 6 one news so they can report on the great deal I managed to secure you on the debt?
So when it happens, you welcome it Norman?
Of course O Reilly why wouldn’t i if it means the country has a future.Now i answered your question any chance you’ll answer mine? Where were all the FG fans when the IMF memeber said they got it wrong?
It’s a pity this IMF guy wasn’t saying it was wrong when he was part of the group imposing the deal on us. That might have been more helpful.
Pity our government didn’t stand up for us and say it was wrong.This one and the last one.
Norman, I can’t account for the whereabouts of other commentators!! As for Ashkoda Mody’s comments – its just another opinion. You’ll find as many arguments for as against. The bailout terms didn’t cause the problem. The bursting of the bubble did…
OReilly thanks for the reply,so if it was olny a matter of opinion why aren’t our overpaid politicians and i mean everyone of them in the Dail in uproar over this.He was part of the team which set out the terms of our loans and he admits they got it it wrong.No matter what why that it is spun it is still crazy that our clowns are applauding themselves for sticking to the MOU.
Soory its a pity THE DAIL isnt saying it and they still can,. If TDS dont mind voign yes to act as collectors for teh German and Ors they can just as quickly say NO until and unless either :
* Memorandum of Underatanding contining the detail of the bank part of the Lail Out Intnl Loan Deal is laid before dail for its approval or rejection
or
* EU and Co of Minisisters agree not only to samction the liquidation of IBRC (to be capitalsied accodidngf ot it but told to us in meldonw) but alos credit natiola bill wiht 17.5 billion shovvelled inot banks
EU never IMPOSED ANY Austerity on this countyr . Under art 29.5.2 no intnl agreement involving a charge on public funds is legally binding on this state unless THE DAIL approves it.
The govt is composed of only a handfull of memebrs of dail eireann and no TD in my constituency asked me for a vote on platform that ireland bail out banks – he/she wld no the answer quick enough.
If TDs prepard to vote yes to legislation imposing austerity then they cld use same mandate to vote NO but unfortunatly up to us to tell them since they didnt ask us.
The campaign against austerity and property taxe ets and – bit loke closing the stabel door after horse has bolted – ir THEY VOTED FOR IT can t balme EU Or merkel for what our TDS have done and that not only those in Govt parteis if them on ULA genuinely interested – each of them wld be in high court looking for order that that intnl agreement requires dail approval to be legally binding on this country – like portuguese have done knowing and finally realising whoe feeds them – ie not eu or spain or italy or unk or germany its their own people. Suggest out own TDS think likeiwse and most NB suggest that our own voters remind them that WE DID NOT ELECT THEM TO ADOPT SUCH AN AGREEMETN . bei it thru Canpaigh against austerity or others.
My head hurts TRYING TO READ THAT.
You also need to learn some international law and the difference between a monist and dualist state. We are a dualist state which means that an agreement at international level has to be approved by the Oireachtas, but that doesn’t mean we made a unilateral decision on our own. Nor does it mean we can go and unilaterally renege on any commitments we signed up to under international law.
How come there were no FG spoofers commenting on the Ashoka Mody story yesterrday O’Reilly? We missed the FG press office perspective.
Does the ad,mission open the door for Ireland to sue the I.M.F. for loss of sovereignty or something like that ! ?
Censored, I for 1 had no intention of pissing in your cornflakes. Did you enjoy the moment? Not that it changes anything. Todays news does though. Are you prepared to welcome it?
ignoreland I dont know if your comment is addressed to me. But my contribution – involve the law of this state not internationla law – the question is if the agreement is legally bining on thsi state. Did out own as u say an internationla agreement has to be approved by the oireachtas. I thought I kn ew it also until I read the relevant articles. Art 29 5 2 but then this is the first such agrement that chargfed the central fund since foundation of the state. Develera really had foresight. but then the constitution was drafted and put to he people when otehr countrieds had a very big hasnd in teh same purse. eh
No, I don’t welcome FG’s regular attempts to spin their lame-ass pyrrhic victories as a good thing for the Irish people. You’re not fooling anyone anymore.
Meanwhile, the German electorate will be completely ignored to get this passed
“In principle” doesn’t mean principled.
Be careful David if enda farts he will blow your head off
They call that a sun flare !!!
Another piece of good work by our government on our behalf. Well done guys. Every little helps.
And the great CON just goes on and on. Last June Enda Kenny told us our bank debt problem would be solved by Last October. Now Michael Noonan’s telling us that something might happen next year. It only goes to show how stupid they think we are, when they continue to insult our intelligence. It seems that they are right in their thinking though, because an intelligent people would have fought back vigorously way before now.
Watch what happens next year just before the Local Elections.
Totally agree. When are the general elections again?
How many red cents are we paying again?
So we can forget the FF style tax cuts that the Ecnomic Forum were talking about the FG Government were planning for 2015 budget. You know the ones to buy the 2016 election
Looks like the Europeans have figured why the Irish keep voting in useless Governments.
I look forward to seeing lots of people at parnell sq tomorrow. It might not achieve much but I can tell my son that I did something when he asks me who made sh1t of ireland and what did the people do.
Today’s Liveline show should be played to the troika (Ben Dunne advising the debt laden to go bankrupt in Newry).
Yeah! Noonan just remortgaged Ireland. Now that we’ll be flush with cash, I think I’ll buy myself that Merc and do a grand tour of Europes capitals… just to say “thanks” to them and that “sure it’ll be alright… my kids will pay you back”.
The IMF seem to be admitting their mistake….will Kenny and co? http://www.newstiller.com/economy/634-a-change-of-track
Please get down on your knees and thank our Lords & Masters…….
Neutered euro stooge Noonan planned 7 years more austerity for an illegal private ponzi bank debt that is NOT the Irish people’s to pay. Euro stooge Noonan and the other EU lackey filth attached to the Irish based stooge parties need to be removed by whatever means possible. Irish people have to stand up to this EU bilderburg cabal. Draghi and old ex FG acolyte Peter Sutherland are ex Goldman Sachs employees.
The EU has not quite caught up on the first banking crisis as the second major crisis is looming. Deferral does not take the foot off our necks. It just kills us more slowly.
The frightening thing is that these experts think that they have solved the problem for Ireland and Portugal.
This is a highly technical and difficult concept to explain but we are bust. The Irish Banks, encouraged by the CBI, has destroyed us and all we now do is postpone the day of final reckoning.
It is a bleak situation. Mortgage impairment is the next crisis and we are ill prepared for it.
It’s the end of the Euro !
Peter it really is not highly technical and difficult – they just want to confuse the ordinary slave citizen.
It goes like this: 98% of “money” in a bank is made up. The other 3% cash has nothing behind it – no reserve that you can claim for it at the central bank. It is ink and paper that only has a PERCEIVED value.
Cycles of Ponzi schemes are played out – we are flooded with fake “money” during economic growth, then the supply is cut and the economy crashes – the central bankers and those in the know buy up everything as hero “investors” for half nothing AND they offer to “rescue” the nation with debt slavery using the God like “markets” . In return for ink and paper “money” from the ECB/IMF/World Bank we must we labour slaves paying taxes and hand over our state assets and resources to the central bankers. This has been going on for centuries and likely during Roman times too.
Wake up to how we are being manipulated by the money system. It is a slavery system.
You are absolutely correct Al. If they will not represent us we have to fight back. Do not pay extortion demands – eg. Property taxes, water taxes. withdraw all you money from banks – ALL of it. Default on loans if possible and spend your year in the UK. Refuse to be a debt slave. Refuse to service their slavery systems.
have your say