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THERE’S NO SUCH thing as a free lunch – or a free think-in, as Fianna Fáil members have been asked to pay for their accommodation while attending the party conference, which begins today.
Members of the party received a letter in August informing them that there was no alternative but to ask members to pay directly for their hotel bed and breakfast when they attend the two-day conference.
However a Fianna Fáil press spokesperson told TheJournal.ie that not all of the 35 TDs, senators and MEPs who attend will need accommodation as some already have homes in or near Dublin.
The party’s debt currently stands at €2.4 million.
The spokesperson said that people were “certainly happy” to pay for accommodation as they understand the party’s financial situation.
The conference will take place at the Maldron Hotel, Tallaght, in Dublin.
As expected, a number of financial issues will be on the agenda at the think-in, which takes place ahead of the Autumn Dáil session.
Party leader Micheál Martin said:
There is a significant focus on the social impact of the recession at this year’s Parliamentary Party meeting. Issues such as fairness, debt sustainability for families and the personal and social impact of unemployment will all be discussed in detail.
The first session will focus on the economy, examining ways to safeguard the progress that we made in stabilising the public finances and reducing the deficit while continuing to protect key areas of social spending. The work from the Parliamentary Party meeting will feed into the policy renewal process that is being launched around the country.
The think-in will include a number of workshops, including one on Coping with Recession – A Social Perspective, chaired by Barry Cowen TD, and The Economy – Safeguarding Progress, chaired by Michael McGrath TD.
Willie O’Dea TD will lead the group through a session on jobs and competitiveness.
Meanwhile, it is a year to the week since former Taoiseach Brian Cowen had to deny being hungover during an early-morning radio interview following the conference in Galway.
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Water is more than a “right” it is essential to life itself without it we die. And it is not like many on here say just another utility bill you can survive without gas or electric, you won’t survive without water.
Food is essential to life
You see they also say food/ shelter are human rights, but we know that is not the case as there are plenty people starving. Saying its a right doesn’t do anything practical for solving the problem, the food/water/shelter still has to be provided by someone. The human rights thing never addresses who is responsible for these things (ultimately its yourself?) so it just seems bs to me.
There are various ongoing costs in food production that one could argue outstrip water processing if you took overall numbers . Mind you the way irish water are talking it’s going to take several hundred billion to fix one leaky pipe. Regardless I suppose you could argue that you can grown your own food in enough quantities to feed yourself. With water you would be reliant on rainfall without a private well.
Catherine, not everyone could grow enough food to survive and likewise not everyone could harvest enough rainwater to survive. But there are rivers aplenty and no laws that i know of against taking buckets or barrells.
There are people starving? There are also people around the world with no access to fresh clean water and are dying as a result. There are people in our own country who can’t drink the water from their taps.
It’s only in theory and in theory you could grow vegetables and raise animals and catch fish in order to feed yourself but if you don’t live anywhere near a river or have a well you are stuck with collecting rainfall so one could argue that water is more scare and not sonething everyone could procure enough of. You can also last a long longer without food than you can without water . I never mentioned people starving . I believe water is a human right and probably our most urgent need. I don’t agree with the charges but don’t feel I have choice as I can’t risk my sons health and that would be the result if our water supply was compromised . The fear campaign make have worked on me but I am reonsibilty for a child with lots of medical issues . I have to make a judgement call that serves his needs above all else.
I’m sorry to hear about your son Catherine and I do think vulnerable people should not have to worry about things like this
Plenty of free food out there.Get a fishing rod for yourself happy days
I’ve spent hours sitting by a river and zilch! What’s the secret?!
By the way, when I said by yourself, I didn’t just mean self sufficient. I also meant by being part of family/group/society that can provide these things. Point is, it doesn’t happen by just declaring it a human right
The issue isn’t necessarily the water charges and I don’t get why the gob sh!tes in government can’t see that. The problem is they introduced a household charge, then a water charge, they increase other charges etc etc the cost of living etc… If the government had said , ok here is one affordbale charge that we expect people to pay and this covers bins, water and whatever else, I dont think people would have such an issue. But when you have some hard working people struggling as is, paying 25,000 a year at least on tax then how dare you add this extra burden on people? Yet the travellers don’t have to pay??? Ah come on its a joke. I hope, seriously, that the Irish aren’t just mouths and actually vote for a total change next election, it’s time we shake up this country and we have the power to do it. It’s our country too and we don’t have to do anything we dont want to.
My problem is they don’t have a belief system. For example we believe in free education and health but pay for water and property. Something that they stick to and is predictable. It’s like rolling a dice for what charge or tax is next.
i would have ‘liked’ your comment except for the bullshit about travellers.
“But when you have some hard working people struggling as is, paying 25,000 a year at least on tax” €25,000 a year on tax??? They don’t seem like struggling people at all
So.its fair travellers get free water when the rest us have to pay???
It’s not the fact about paying for water that people are protesting today it’s the fact we’re being asked to pay for water twice. We already pay 1.2 billion per year for water through general taxation. Why would you want to pay twice. May I remind you that there are nearly a dozen board members and directors of irish water who are already on salaries exceeding 100000 per annum and they have the audacity to push this charge on people for a service we already pay for
My stand exactly Darren. I can afford to pay, and I already do. My issue is that I will not pay the wages of a bunch of corrupt politicians pals. If my tax went up, again, and I knew it was going directly to water I’d have no issue, as I’ve had no issue with taxes rising all along. I can afford to take the hits, but I’m going to this march today for those that can’t. Only reason this charge wasn’t a tax is because they knew they couldn’t hit everyone. This way, everyone that uses a tap is effected. And to me that’s just plain wrong.
Agree. Myself and my husband have decent jobs and can afford to pay. But my brothers, my parents and grandparents and a lot of my friends can’t. They’ve lost jobs. Taken hits on their pensions. Lost allowances. Been hit with property taxes, and a massive USC charge. My cousin lost her carers allowance. My brother is paying €3,500 a year for his “free” education. My best friend even lost his house. Everyone has had enough. I CAN pay. But I WONT pay. The sleeveens have taken enough.
These new payments are not paying for water… The water charges like the property charges (which was supposed to be for local services that we also already payed for) is for the government to go to lenders and say “hey we are talking in another 500million a year, can we have a ten year bond of 8 – 10 billion?” … Lender says yes (because the loan will probably be repaying older loans) and the government draw down the money and pay of another instalment of the bank guarantee debt!
So if we add the percentages added to our taxes PRSI, Motor Tax, PAYE etc to the charges from Irish Water, how much is that? A hell of a lot more than 3%!
Funding for water has OBVIOUSLY come from exchequer figures. It’s not growing on trees. It had to be funded. Referring to a change in taxes in 1977 doesn’t cut it. There have been so many variations in the rates since then.
But no one will comment on the fact that it is not based on usage. So even if the rates stayed static since 1977, people who do not pay motor tax are being subsidised for their water usage by those who do pay motor tax. If that’s not the case will you point out why not?
12 red thumbs and counting but not one comment back to tell me where I’m making an error
Maybe because you repeated the same speil yesterday, but choose to ignore the replies you received.
There is also 2% on vat everyone pays that even kids buying there sweets
My views, the county councils have been supplying and maintaining our water up until now and they are funded by the all the taxpayers.
Are we all getting these tax funds back in our wages seeing as Irish water want to charge us directly?
Norman the replies didn’t answer my question. You wouldn’t engage in an if argument so ill take out the if and see if you will engage with this
I drive and pay motor tax, just under a grand a year. My neighbour doesn’t drive so pays no motor tax. He waters his lawn throughout the summer. I have no lawn and conserve my water.
Am I subsidising the cost for his usage of water?
Saying it’s a speil appeals I’m sure but does not answer the question as nobody has done. Everyone pays VAT. Not at the same levels. Again, going back to a change that was made in 1977 with no accounting for changes between then and now in rates, costs to produce etc. At one point after 1977 VAT was 30%. There are now 3 rates of VAT i believe. So even if the rate taken for water out of VAT and motor stayed static since then it is simply not correct to say that everyone pays for their water usage – they may pay towards its they do not all pay for it.
I’ll happily retract all of that if you show me where I’m wrong and how there is no logic in what im saying rather than just telling me I’m wrong.
Pete there are items where there is 0% VAT. What’s your point?
Shane, again it’s obvious that water is being funded. I don’t dispute that. But we are not ALL paying for it. Certainly not based on usage. Will I get a rebate because I pay more in taxes (income, VAT, USC, motor tax) than my neighbour pays because he is doesn’t drive and lives a very frugal lifestyle but actually uses a sh!t load of water filling up his washing line and watering his lawns and i use far less water than he does?
Your conservation is irrelevant with Irish water, they’ve already stated if people conserve and reduce their projected profits they’ll put the price up to maintain profitability!
My views, I’m not sure if you are being confrontational, will fully idiotic or just really don’t understand, I pay more than €1,000 in motor tax, does this mean I’m subsidising your use of the roads? I pay vhi and prsi, maybe more than you do, does this mean I would be subsidising you if God forbid you are ever unemployed or need to attend a hospital? No, it’s about community, someone will always pay more than you do for certain things.
Water has been paid for and continues to be through direct taxation, €1.6 billion was spent last year with a “profit” of €400 million, were will that money go if this quango is allowed? Paying down debts to faceless Europeans that’s where, enough is enough people are sick of it and people like yourself
My views you were answered, however you dislike the answers so choose to ignore them.
Thomas I’m not being confrontational and I don’t believe I’m willfully idiotic. But if someone calls me willfully idiotic or a shill or all the other insults that are thrown around then that would tend to make me a bit confrontational.
The answer to your question is yes. If you pay more in all of those things than I do and I use more water than you do then you are subsidising my use of water. If you pay more but use more water then it may balance out? I simply think it’s much fairer to have a charge based on usage. Of course I’d love if there was a reduction in other taxes and hopefully we’ll get something next week. But the bottom line is that we are still not self funding – we still need to borrow money. Of course I’d love if we did not have to take on the cost of the banking and property collapse but we did take it on and there is no one that I can see who is proposing to default on that debt so your point I believe (note I say I believe) is moot. We are in a situation where we have the debt, it’s not going anywhere and all the posts in the world referring to bankers and bondholders will not change that. We are still borrowing to run the country.
I think that people should pay for their usage of water. If people cannot pay, that should be allowed for.
My views, if I was you I would be more annoyed at being charged nearly 1000 in motor tax a year than your neighbor watering their lawn!
Do you think you are getting value for your money?
I have a 1400cc petrol engine car and I pay over 400 a year which I think is expensive.
I would imagine your car uses more fuel per mile than mine so you are also paying more tax on the extra fuel you use.
If you pay your motortax quarterly you are charged more than if you pay in full.where’s the fairness in that? The person who can afford to pay up front gets cheaper tax than the less well off person who can’t pay in full.this was only changed in the last few years.
Long story short, I pay enough taxes and I want more value for them!
Irish water does not represent a more efficient water supply, it represents another expensive service that does not give value for money.
Irish water represents IMF bailout terms.
Irish water represents political lies.
Irish water represents cronyism.
Irish water represents increased water costs year after year.
But worst of all Irish water represents threatening and scaremongering people to accept their scam without question.
I do not have any faith in Irish water.
My views, Thomas has given you a better answer than I’d be willing to give you . Considering how you already behaved you’ll ignore his points aswell.
Shane in regards to your Motor tax My Views answer was basically buy a newer car.
Will you answer again then Norman in case I missed it? I don’t always get an email to say there’s been a reply.
Or just copy and paste your answer from yesterday will do the trick. Or a link.
My Views go and find it yourself not that hard Google is your friend.I never copy and paste I leave that to others.
Shane fully agree. Motor tax is too high and I think too unfair considering that newer eco friendly cars are a fraction of the cost in motor tax. But I knew the tax on the car when I bought it, along with the fuel consumption. So maybe Thomas was right on that point and I was wilfully idiotic for buying the car I did.
Tax in general is too high and too much of the tax burden is put on too few of the people. Which is why i think it’s fair to charge everyone for something that everyone uses. I hope there will be a reduction in the tax burden next week.
I’ve tried to put across my view about the banking debt and all that in my reply to Thomas. All fair points you make but at this stage I think it’s largely irrelevant because it’s a done deal and I don’t believe any party is proposing to undo it.
@ my view, you could always sell your car!
Norman you seem to know where you answered my question. I don’t. Google will throw back a pile of results and I have no intention of wading through that.
You seem to give one or two sentence replies so it shouldn’t be too hard to give the answer again. or you rely on others to answer for you.
And conversely you also seem to jump in and make up answers to other posters who are replying to me. Maybe show me where I told someone to buy a new car?
I do recall saying to someone that newer eco friendly cars are just over a couple of hundred quid to tax possibly because they were saying how cheap it was to tax a car in NI but I dont think i told them to go and buy one. But again, it’s been a long week so if I did basucally tell someone to buy a new car feel free to point that out too – Google is your friend too.
David I could sell it. If I was complaining I could do that. I’m not. I’m making the point that there’s a large variation in the costs and what people pay for these things. I think certain motor tax is too high and unfair. But I bought the car knowing that as most people do.
My views I’ll leave it at this, you want me to repeat myself not going to happen.You want to have a go at what I stated no problem link my earlier comments if you wish but don’t expect me to do the work for you.
Ok.. clondalkin protests thread..
Norman
My views 2% of the vat take and 5% of motor tax take have been used for water provision for years according to Simon Coveney minister for agriculture 1.6 billion was raised in this fashion last year for water provision.
My views
Norman, its stating the obvious to say that the money is coming from somewhere. Vat, motor, whatever. It’s being paid for.
I’ll ask you the same thing I asked Kerry – if I drive and my neighbour doesn’t am I subsidising his water? Do you think that’s fair
Norman
My views I answered your question, I’m not going to get involved with an ‘if ‘ argument.
I didn’t cause the banking crash but I’m paying for it explain the fairness of that.
End of conversation.
Today I took the ‘if’ out of my argument and got referred back to the above.
On the motor tax, to be fair to you, one of the comments I made was “You should buy an emissions friendly car. Tax is much less than the 700 odd quid your paying.”
But it was in reply to a smart ass who ended their post to me with a “facts straight yet” comment where I had we were talking about VAT and motor tax in NI.
The money collected from water charges is budgeted to replace all salary and pension impositions made on civil servants in recent years.Brendan Howlin has openly declared his intention to return his sponsors to pre recession/pre austerity times.This is all written in the Haddington Road Agreement.
Cuts for public servants are a “temporary little arrangement”.
Meanwhile more and more money will be gouged out of poorer families to pay for it all.
It is more than unjust.It is tantamount to criminal.
The people of Ireland are today giving Howlin and Burton and Kenny their response to their grand plan.
I use public transport and I have to pay a fare to do so, so I am contributing to motor taxation am I not????
My views, i think your wrong here, as far as I’m aware and going by other comments, your neighbour can use as much water as he likes without worrying as he pays for it via 1972 law!(and local taxes)…. As for vehicle tax…. If i drive a 2.0 ltr car I’m charged x amount for it by revenue not to mention refueling at the pumps! If my neighbour drives a 1.0ltr car then he’s charged less than I, if he doesn’t drive a car then he cant be taxed for that (yet) .. Simples.. Pardon the pun but” your argument holds no water!”
What does it matter how much water some person in ireland uses? We have an unlimited supply or havent you noticed? As regards water supply being funded from motor tax that was a measure agreed by the social partners I dont remember any mass demonstrations about it at the time or since a chara. Double taxation without representation is where we are at now and the government may prepare themselves for the inevitable citizens revolt.
That’s like saying is Enda Kenny a Human being ??????…..
“Water must be safe for human consumption and for personal and domestic hygiene. It must be free from microorganisms, chemical substances and radiological hazards that constitute a threat to a person´s health.”
We drink bottled water that we buy in.
I never drink tap water.
I don’t trust the source.
The people in charge never take responsibility in this country.
I will not consume a product of their negligence.
Of course it’s a human rite not a resource that should be taxed to pay for the mistakes of the few I hope today’s march brings home this point to the powers that be
Look at this in isolation, no water means diseases spread widely, lack of hand washing can cause gastroenteritis. The assurance of governments Ebola will remain unresolved for ever as the countries worst effected are hot climates with substandard water and sanitation. Two elements of a micro climate that incubate disease.
What the UN are stating water is required for human survival and good sanitation.
Enda Kenny, Joan Burton, Michael Noonan and Brendan Howlin are not educated enough to realise you cannot fight infectious diseases wheat her airborne or contact spread by restricting water to a trickle.
The maths state most people cannot afford this charge.
Human body is about 70% water, if water is not a human right well then Humans have no rights
Exactly
That statement you just made is the stupidest I’ve ever seen.
The water should be free but if somebody else takes it out of the ground , treats it and pumps it to your house so that you have access to it 24 hrs a day surely that service must be paid for? The price they put on it is another issue. It has to be fair. The amount people use will vary throughout their lifetime and will balance out so this idea of allowances per person is only a way of making money. The service should be cost neutral provided by the government not a private company.
This is an article from 2008, explaining how big banks and corporations see water as the new oil, you’d be a foil to think that this government are not going to sell our water off.
http://www.alternet.org/story/105083/why_big_banks_may_be_trying_to_buy_up_your_public_water_system
Here in the UK we pay through the nose for our water thanks to privatisation while the ripoff companies make obscene profits You can expect the same if water is privatised in Ireland
Only a matter of time before the oxygen charge and I also heard whispers of the “being related to a ginger person charge” it’s harsh but I’d pay it sooner than the water or oxygen one.
Lol il never see my family again if that tax comes in
To late it’s called a carbon tax lol
In the agreement with the Troika the Government undertook to ” broaden the tax base” and two ways suggested in doing that was through a property and water tax. This meant that tax revenue was not too dependant on market forces like the buying ,selling and building of property. There has been a water department in every town council since the foundation of the state so we have been paying for water either through rates or general taxation ever since. It is a tax no more no less.
Nestle CEO: Water Is Not A Human Right, Should Be Privatized.
http://www.undergroundhealth.com/nestle-ceo-says-you-shouldnt-have-the-right-to-water/
Saw that documentary. Actually think that this company could be the future owner of Irish Water.
Everyone should check it out.
But that was bottled water?
They undermined a Pakistani village and drew the water out from their aquafier so their wells ran dry, then demanded the villagers but the water bottled if they wanted to live. It was like a Mr Burns in the Simpson scheme except it happened in real life!
Why are people protesting? “What have the Romans ever done for us?!’ Even they managed to provide clean water to their citizens without charging more than once for it.
I remember years ago, could be 15-20 I heard about a documentary about the so called “powers that be” not governments mind some shadowy figures, but the general idea of it was that oil/gas were running low and that these people would be looking for new ways to milk people, it mentioned that water was to become a resource that people would be directly charged for.
I distinctly remember laughing to myself and thinking, Jesus them conspiracy theory people are nuts.. Now, I’m not so sure…..
Am I only one that doesn’t have too much of a problem paying this? Don’t get me wrong if my water was undrinkable I wouldn’t pay but that it was agreed you only have to pay for the rest of the water if that’s the case.
No Adrian you are among a bunch of people that don’t mind playing twice for water. Water is already pay for through taxation. It’s not that hard to understand .WE ALREADY PAY FOR WATER!
Id prefer to pay for water usage based on consumption then see income tax rise…
Cian you would still be paying for through tax plus your bill from Irish Water. Pay for water usage based on consumption or through taxation but not both which will be the case.
Les, tax is our money not someone else’s
Aidrian, you are the governments wet dream,
Ah sure it’s not too bad I’ll just pay it…
When does it stop though….
Thomas it’s not that I’m being passive on it, I have an opinion on it, calling me a governments wet dream isn’t going to suddenly make me angry at them. Giving me shocking stats as to why it’s totally outrageous that we’ve to pay this may however sway my opinion.
Given that my main issue which is that some people’s water isn’t even drinkable has been addressed, I’m now ok with paying it like most other countries do.
There are many other issues that I’ve huge problems with, mainly our diabolical unproductive public sector but not paying water tax isn’t going to fix that.
Being passive is agreeing aidrian,
€1.6 billion was spent on water distribution and treatment from general taxation last year, if you are to pay the water company for your water you will be paying directly for your water and contributing to the €1.6 billion
I’m fine with paying for it although would prefer not to. Have yet to hear from the objectors what govt spending they would cut or taxes they would raise instead though
Why only 15;000 marching water is bacic right why this government think they can charge for it is unbelievable and totally lost touch with irish people
Far more than 15,000 marched. Instead of the reported tens of thousands, the number marching was in the hundreds of thousands.
How can something be a right if it has to be provided by other people. Rights can only be denied. This is my words and nothing less
Think you’re on to something there Steve. This whole notion of human rights is an odd one, and is not entirely realistic imo
Malvolio. What a stupid thing to say. Human rights are to protect our freedom. Would you rather we became surfs of the state or corporations. Water is a essential right of every man woman and child on this planet. If this kind of action was reported in Africa where a government was charging its people for water and if they could not pay they would threaten to stop giving them water we would be up in arms about it.
There seems to be plenty of money to set up these company’s and pay unsecured bond holders billions but no money left for basic necessities in this country.
What you’re talking about is the difference between “thin rights” and “thick rights”. The idea of thick rights is that people can’t fulfil their potential if they don’t have basic resources. Freedom from unfair arrest is neither here nor there if you can’t afford to eat.
The problem with thick rights is that they’re impossible to enforce without detracting from the rights of others (usually, though not entirely, the right to the fruits of your work). Which is why they are dubious. Thin rights don’t require anyone else to do anything other than leave you alone.
The right not to have your water course polluted or taken away is a thin right. The right to have water treated and pumped to your house, and then waste water pumped away and disposed of safely, well that’s different. It’s equivalent to arguing that Tesco have no right to charge you for food.
Human rights don’t provide anything
So fluoride?
Paul fluoride makes water thicker and inhibits some bacterial diseases mutating, the strain of some diseases adapt to certain condition. If you want to kill fungal spores treat them with inhibitors like washing up liquid. Our hands come in contact with soapy water which has the same effect as fluoridation water.
Light, damp moisture with fungal spores, or waste body products as trace amount on door handles do more harm than fluoride in water.
Yes but would you drink that? Fluoride is poisonous and also a chemical as mentioned in the last paragraph above.
Hi Paul,
Look at the environment we live in. Air, light, dark, water, food intake, drinking soft drinks, water alcohol.
All have been filtrated or have had some dissaption.
There is no diluted chemical that once respected as a potential to do harm if concentration of substance is higher than what is regarded as a safe.
I advocate we are going to face a very serious harmful threat if water is reduced to a trickle. People won’t wash their hands right and then the spread of diseases once again swine flu, Ebola, Marleria, influenza, t . B. Etc….
I don’t think the government can ignore this argument in the UN statement.
Ebola is coming to Ireland and water bills are now in Ireland , the government will reduce your water to a trickle so Ebola and other infectious disease spread from lack of hand sanitisation.
Politicians won’t be safe from germs or their hosts .
So then Emily and malvio what do youl suggest. Let’s stop all rights to people. While we’re at we can make everybody carry identity cards or face arrest. And also if there’s any groups in society we don’t like we could maybe class them as less human and maybe round them up.
I have no problem paying for water as here is a cost of getting the service to my house however the rampant profiteering that is going on relative to the sell off of an asset of this nation is why I have travelled up today to take part in the protest. As such a valuable asset of the state anything that takes it towards private hands must be prevented. Bad and all as the running of the state has been under this government I would prefer to see the provision of the service through the state. The money that has been burned in the process of trying to meter is truly shocking and is dividing the nation. Adding another bill to the list of monthly charges is not acceptable and must be prevented at all costs. If the government is unable to raise the funds through the normal process of taxation then I accept tax must increase but the route they have chosen is not acceptable to me and I shall do my utmost at every step of the way to make it as difficult for the company to become a reality. In my opinion tax is the only way we should and will pay for our water services and if the government does not agree then the government must go. There are opinions on both sides so I think the only way to resolve this is a vote to see the thoughts of the people and we need this now before any more hostilities and divisions between the state and it’s people escalate.
What I would personally prefer would be not a centralization of power in the hands of the State, but an extension of the sense of trusteeship; as in my opinion the violence of private ownership is less injurious than the violence of the State. However, if it is unavoidable, I would support a minimum of State-ownership.
Mahatma Gandhi
A very valid opinion Sean and we should put it to the people to see what the majorities opinion on it is as opposed to the current shameless actions of the state. If people had the right to chose on it then we would not have the current splintering of society we are seeing. If the majority saw fit to go down this route then I would follow its decision but what we have now is cronyism and corruption on a scale never seen before in this state. Following the path the government is on now will ultimately cause civil unrest that the country can not afford at this point in time.
It needs to be paid for, so unless you live in the sticks and have a shed loads of buckets (and rain), water tax needs to be collected. People really should be campaigning against USC and other non transparent taxes.
Did you actually say “the whole notion if human right “! Careful you might start to sound like Joan Antoinette Burton if you keep going
Yes it is.
Water is free, go to any river, stream or brook and have your fill. Problem solved.
Irish people paying for water is like Arabs paying for sand…. It just doesn’t make sense, I’m sure the whole of the water infrastructure could have been upgraded for less than the cost of setting up IW
Nothing new Paul Hosford. The UN state you cannot cut off a persons water supply and in case you haven’t noticed, we already pay 1.2 Billion for water !!!
The take home pay in my house 3500 per month, husband was very sick cancer, on sick cert 18 mths. In arrears with ESB, phone, gas etc to pay my arrears, house ins, contents ins, car ins, car tax 10 yr old car , petrol for work as no public transport, husbands med bill per mth 98 euro, etc cost 2800 per mth min, leaves us approx 750 per mth for food 4 in the house. Please can someone explain how i’m to pay for water tax out of what is left. It’s not possible. I will not pay they can take me to jail for all I care i’ve had enough. We dont smoke, no holidays, cant remember when we went out last, I realize we are better off than a lot of people but I’m not making ends meet, have had ESB, GAS come out to the house to cut us off, have had my fone cut off a number of times as cant pay the bill. Was told by ESB that if they cut me off it would cost 200 to be switched back on & I asked if I couldn’t pay the bill & they cut me off how did they think I would be able to come up with them extra 200 to switch the ESB back on. This is just one of the most unbelievable gov we have ever had with their comments, They have expensive phone, they are like an auld lad walking up & down the ballroom of romance. Then we give an extra 2.7 mil to GAZA Please take me to jail at least I will have the company of some honest criminals not the ones dishonest ones in gov. As Bertie said i don’t have a bank a/c at least he said 1 honest thing as to work you must have a job and he must never have worked if he had no bank a/c.
I don’t understand if you are paying all those bills which cost 2,800 per month then how come they are in arrears? Anyway, just going on my numbers I don’t understand how they come to that amount anyway…
ESB 75
Phone 50
Gas 150
house ins 30
contents ins – is that not what house insurance is for?
car ins 40
car tax 50
petrol 200
medicine 100
Total: 695
Mortgage is the big one you’re missing their
so pop on another 1000 (regardless of whether someone should be allowed not pay for services so as to continue funding their investments)
Still only 1,695
i bet there is more than 15000 people at the march
The Government want to privatise it and line their own corrupt pockets with the spoils.
A well reasoned article but for me the No to Water Meters protest is more about who controls this vital resource and how it is controlled. This is a tipping point in the culmination of decrees meted out by our politicians and the citizens of Ireland are beginning to stand up to our elected government’s procedures which get more clumsy and out of touch by the day.
I agree water is a human right .. But wasting water , in my opinion is criminal ,these charges will stop ppl wasting water . But the government could of handled it a bit better
Mitch, this charge has absolutely nothing to do with conserving water, as we have already been told, if we don’t use enough the price will increase,
Not that it matters much I firmly belive this unjust/immoral/unfair charge and company will soon be abolished.
The people are about to have their say and the government and their media arm are terrified.
Thomas .. Just my own experience , my neighbour , all over summer , leaves on he’s sprinkler in he’s garden .. All night , never turns it off .do you think he will leave it on now he has to pay for it ?? He already has it gone :)
People living in the country that have private sites with their own private houses, wells and septic tanks/treatment plants , are paying for their water since time began. Firstly, they have t o get a well bored, supply a water pump and electricity and maintain all of that every year. Likewise, people who are on Group Water Schemes, and there are a very big number of Schemes, are paying for their water, some for 40/50 years. They are all metered now. We in the country got no hand-outs to do this work. Yes, the Dept. Recently said that grants would be available to upgrade septic tanks, but that will be on a very limited basis. So the story is, we country people have always been paying for our water.
I would like to know who are the owners if the company that supplies the chemical fluoride that the government put into the water ? I think many people would be happy for the government to forgo this unnecessary cost. Most people I’m sure would prefer to choose their own medication ? I understand that the government care about our dental health but us it really necessary ? Couldn’t we just use that money to contribute to the upkeep if our water system ?
Ah lads, give up the daily paper, bottled water,cigarettes, take away coffees and the lotto. Not only will ye have enough to pay for water, but ye might be able to form yer own party and change the world.
Woman on Joe Duffy this week saying that she will not pay water charges as her water was under a boil notice. She was heading off to Tesco to buy bottled water. Joe pointed out that the water could be boiled and used and that bottled water was 3000 times the price of piped.
It’s a first world problem. Here in Tipperary in the 70′s my school friends drew water from a well to wash in.
How many of you who complain about paying, put buckets out to collect the rain that fell in the last few days?
Oh yeah, sorry I forgot, you want the buckets paid for by central government before you’ll do that…
Andrew, if it was found that bottled water was on sale that needed boiling before it could be safely used to drink etc, the supplier would be pilloried by government, the media, health organisations…you name it.
How is that different to supplying contaminated water through a mains pipe and charging people for it ? Where is the mass condemnation ?
I look forward to an answer.
People have a right to water it’s the law enda like it or not
Hang on a pair of minutes, “is water a human right?” Seriously? Think about that question, read it a few times, and I’m sure everyone will agree, obviously!!
There no human rights, only human wrongs.
The UN says a lot of things and Ireland turn a blind eye ~
“UN Convention on the Rights of the Child” ~
http://www.unicef.org.uk/Documents/Publication-pdfs/UNCRC_PRESS200910web.pdf
See articles 25, 33 and 37 as examples.
Mainstream Psychiatry come along and trample on the basic rights of a child, destroying their brain with a cocktail of drugs. The child may not be able to get a basic education due to the serious damage done. A basic human right. The legal system need to educate themselves.
They could learn a lot for a man that was in the country this week. Dr Peter Gotzsche. Co-founder of the Cochrane Collaboration. http://www.cochrane.org/about-us
Socialism is stupid… If your unemployed and lazy you get a free house and money but you must pay for water
Fkn right it is a human right
have your say