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THREE SUDANESE CIVILIANS have been killed as fighting raged between the regular army and paramilitaries in Khartoum and other cities, the doctors’ union said.
In a statement on Facebook, the medics said “two people were killed in Khartoum airport” and another person was killed in El Obeid, in North Kordofan state, south of the capital.
It added that at least nine other people were wounded in the clashes, including an army officer in Khartoum’s sister city of Omdurman.
The eruption of violence came after weeks of deepening tensions between military leader Abdel Fattah al-Burhan and his number two, paramilitary commander Mohamed Hamdan Daglo, over the planned integration of the paramilitary Rapid Support Forces (RSF) into the regular army.
The paramilitaries said they were in control of the presidential place as well as Khartoum airport, claims denied by the army, as civilian leaders called for an immediate ceasefire to prevent the country’s “total collapse”.
Witnesses reported “confrontations” and loud explosions and gunfire near an RSF base in south Khartoum.
Military leader Burhan has been at loggerheads with his number two, the RSF commander, over talks to finalise a deal to return the country to civilian rule and end the crisis sparked by their 2021 coup.
The RSF said its forces had taken control of Khartoum airport, after witnesses reported seeing truckloads of fighters entering the airport compound, as well as the presidential palace and other key sites.
Its claims were quickly denied by the army.
Rapid Support Forces are now Confirmed to be inside of Khartoum International Airport in the Capital of Sudan. pic.twitter.com/dPeaCgyxR5
— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) April 15, 2023
“The army headquarters, Khartoum airport, and Merowe base are under full control of the Sudanese army,” an army statement said.
“The rebellious Rapid Support Forces are spreading lies that our forces attacked them to cover up their rebellious behaviour.”
RSF commander Mohamed Hamdan Daglo has vowed that his fighters will keep on fighting until “all army bases are captured.”
“We will not stop fighting until we capture all the army bases and the honourable members of the armed forces join us,” Daglo told Al Jazeera.
The head of the United Nations mission in Sudan has called for an “immediate” end to fighting between the regular army and paramilitaries.
UNITAMS chief Volker Perthes “strongly condemns the eruption of fighting in Sudan,” it said in a statement.
“Perthes has reached out to both parties asking them for an immediate cessation of fighting to ensure the safety of the Sudanese people and to spare the country from further violence.”
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has said he is “deeply concerned” about the escalating violence in Sudan.
“We are in touch with the Embassy team in Khartoum – all are currently accounted for. We urge all actors to stop the violence immediately and avoid further escalations or troop mobilizations and continue talks to resolve outstanding issues,” he said in a tweet.
The US Ambassador to Sudan has also called for an end to the fighting.
Escalation of tensions within the military component to direct fighting is extremely dangerous. I urgently call on senior military leaders to stop the fighting. (2/2)
— John Godfrey (@USAMBSudan) April 15, 2023
In a tweet, John Godfrey said that he was sheltering in the country’s US embassy in Khartoum amidst the fighting.
“I just arrived late last night in Khartoum and woke up to the deeply disturbing sounds of gunfire and fighting. I am currently sheltering in place with the Embassy team, as Sudanese throughout Khartoum and elsewhere are doing,” he wrote.
“Escalation of tensions within the military component to direct fighting is extremely dangerous. I urgently call on senior military leaders to stop the fighting.”
Created in 2013, the RSF emerged from the Janjaweed militia that then president Omar al-Bashir unleashed against non-Arab ethnic minorities in the western Darfur region a decade earlier, drawing accusations of war crimes.
A plan to integrate the RSF into the regular army is one of the key points of contention, analysts have said.
Eleventh-hour haggling between the two men over the details has twice forced postponement of the signing of an agreement with civilian factions setting out a roadmap for the transition.
AFP reporters heard gunfire near the airport, as well near Burhan’s residence and in Khartoum North. Civilians were seen running for cover as artillery exchanges rocked the streets.
Fighter jets were seen patrolling the skies over Khartoum, witnesses said.
The army said: “The air force is now carrying out… operations to quell the irresponsible actions by the Rapid Support Forces militia..”
The two sides traded blame for starting the fighting.
“The Rapid Support Forces were surprised Saturday with a large force from the army entering camps in Soba in Khartoum and laying siege to paramilitaries there,” it said in a statement.
It said a “sweeping attack with all kinds of heavy and light weapons” was under way.
The army said the paramilitaries started the heavy fighting.
“Fighters from the Rapid Support Forces attacked several army camps in Khartoum and elsewhere around Sudan,” army spokesman Brigadier General Nabil Abdallah told AFP.
“Clashes are ongoing and the army is carrying out its duty to safeguard the country.”
Troops blocked off the bridges across the Nile linking Khartoum with its sister cities of Omdurman and Khartoum North. They also sealed off the road to the presidential palace.
The military’s civilian interlocutors called on both sides “to immediately cease hostilities and spare the country slipping into the abyss of total collapse.”
Their plea was echoed by US ambassador John Godfrey, who tweeted that he “woke up to the deeply disturbing sounds of gunfire and fighting” and was “currently sheltering in place with the embassy team, as Sudanese throughout Khartoum and elsewhere are doing”.
“Escalation of tensions within the military component to direct fighting is extremely dangerous. I urgently call on senior military leaders to stop the fighting,” he said.
Western governments had been warning of the dangers of all-out fighting between the rival security forces since the army issued its warning to the paramilitaries on Thursday.
Five Western governments plus the European Union said they were “deeply concerned by reports of heightened tensions in Sudan and risk of escalation between the Sudan Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces.”
In its statement Thursday, the regular army said it was “sounding the alarm as the country is at a dangerous historical turning point”.
“The risks are increasing as the RSF command mobilised and spread forces in the capital and other cities,” the army said.
In recent months, Daglo has said the 2021 coup was a “mistake” that failed to bring about change in Sudan and reinvigorated remnants of Bashir’s regime, which was ousted by the army in 2019 following month of mass protests.
Burhan, a career soldier from northern Sudan who rose the ranks under Bashir’s three-decade rule, maintained that the coup was “necessary” to bring more groups into the political process.
It’s a term that will always get Irish backs up. Look just in the interests of harmony and putting the issue to bed, lets refer to the whole lot as the Irish Isles.
after a few years living abroad, where 95% of people think Ireland is part of Great Britain, I’m quite happy when someone refers to Ireland as part of the British Isles, but understands Ireland is a republic.
Irish Isles are smiling, question should be as follows! Are the British Islands part of Ireland, kick out the Queen and put Enda in there!
There was actually a British proposal some 30 years ago (Conservative MP) to rename the British Isles ‘ IONA ‘ (Islands of the North Atlantic), but it gained no traction.
Geographically acceptable to both sides, but the entire question is long-poisoned by politics.
The reason the term ‘British Isles’ stocks is due solely to the six counties that make up Northern Ireland.
Until – if ever – there is a united Ireland (or a massive jump in population) then you’re going to have great difficulty in getting the British Isles redrawn in any official capacity.
In other words, carry on as we are and the British will have a bigger say as there’s much more of them and they have a bigger voice.
And now for something completely different….
Ireland is part of the British isle , it is not part of Great Britton because the Great in great Britton refers to the larger island of the British Isle, it’s not political, these islands off Europe existed long before Irish , English , Scots or Welsh existed and will be here long after were gone. It is a name to describe a pair of Islands in close proximity nothing else.
Great stuff Stephen, very funny and witty comment there
You have made a mistake here Joe. The Great in Great Britain refers to Britain being bigger than Brittany in France. Previously these two regions were called greater Britain (now simply Great Britain) and lesser Britain (Brittany) as they were both occupied by celts known as Bretons. Ireland is in no way a british isle. Calling the archipelago the Celtic isles would make more sense in my opinion as it includes Bretons, scotish, manx, welsh, Cornish and irish and so the entire area has a connection to the historical celts.
So what you are saying is 95% of the people are stupid are you?
Do Americans think Canada and Mexico are different ? Do all the countries of Europe or Africa see them selves as different countries?
Me thinks if is you that is stupid
We need to send Enda over to DerryLondon so that he can tell Lizzie Windsor that its the Irish Isles.
Australa and New Zealanders, especially as a united military force are called Anzacs. Both countries are proud of the name. Terms like B&I or Celtic Islands can benefit the minor island, being Ireland… I have no time for the expression British Isles… It reminds me of the old term British Lions… Ireland is respected all over the world…and yes we are equal to the “poms”!
When Australia and New Zealand combine, especially in the theatre of war they are fondly called the Anzacs. I like the term Celtic Islands or B&I. Ireland is well respected all over the world, and equal with the “Poms”. We don’t need to go backwards!
Only certain Irish could get themselves so upset over nothing. The British Ordnance Survey view is the one most people throughout the world go by hence the Google results, they are the British Isles. It’s geographic but the usual Republican types want to make it political and a problem.
95% Mal how did you get that figure ? Did you do a poll of everyone you ever spoke to or are you just another one of those people that can’t distinguish between anecdotal evidence and fact.
I think great Britain only referred to England and Wales as they hadn’t taken over the Scottish at that stage
Most people think “America” only refers to the United States of America.
Eg. If I said in from America you would not think I’m from brazil.
People generalise, they may not be totally stupid.
What we are
And how we see it,
Has a way of affecting
The way we define it.
As long as the peace
Nips PSNI piecemeal
Simmering Pud for the DUP
Fading bling, the GBNI bing
While hope in the IRA SF Fairs;
To mould our land, the people who dare.
So we want our own union, not to share,
And their Union, they keep it there.
Our tribe be united, totally at ease
For us to divide up, as we please
By province, by county,
By Town, by team.
Now where’s the auld enemy, borders unseen.
This political divide is not for me,
The pomp has plagued my view you see.
While our geography is easier to map
It’s rock and water, so who gives a crap.
The cultures we share, our points of view
Not a million miles, not far askew.
Call me and Isle, call me Iona
I don’t give a feck, you can me Fiona.
I love this land, being part of the clan,
But taking it seriously; there should be a ban.
So we’re back to trying to ruin England then?!
And if they existed long before England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales or Britain, why call them British? Could just as easily call them the French Isles.
@Shane, yeah, your right, I should have said “most people I speak to”.
In any case, the point I was making is as the majority of people I’ve spoken to outside Ireland think of Ireland as part of Britain.
European Isles?
Great Britain actually comes from Grande Bretagne referring to the province of Brittany in France..
I call them the Celtic Isles. 3 of the 4 countries in it consider themselves Celtic.
You must be the brains of the group mal must be stimulating conversations with the other sharp pencils
And the one that has more population than the “celts” put together isn’t. So it’s a stupid idea.
Here’s another nugget to confuse you all. While Ireland shared aspects of Celtic culture, there’s no evidence that the Celts ever actually came to Ireland. The research at Trinity College Dublin (TCD) into the origins of Ireland’s population found no substantial evidence of the Celts in Irish DNA, and concludes they never settled here en masse.
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119605
In fact the more you delve into it the more you learn that Ireland was/ is not a Celtic country. The term was allegedly assigned to Ireland in the eighteenth century by a Welsh linguist- and was seized by the Irish nationalist movement as evidence of an us and them heritage.
The original inhabitants of Ireland pre-date the Celts. It seems that Ireland and Britain copied aspects of Celtic art and culture via trade links and this has later been misinterpreted. Rather like Europeans who take on aspects of American culture via TV and media.
That mean we have to include Corsica, Sardinia, Malta, Cyprus, the Greek, Italian and Balkan islands not to mention the Scandinavian, Iberian and Portuguese. Won’t work.
Wouldn’t us David Icke as reference for anything however check out a tv series from RTE/Cinegall in the 80′s called Atlantean and your eyes will be opened.
There are more references and scholarly articles that all seem to have a consensus about the Celtic heritage. I had a look at references to Atlantean – looks very interesting! Thanks for that.
The idea of being part of a common ‘Atlantean’ culture including the western seaboard of Europe and North Africa is intriguing and attractive. What parallels to the British Empire then EU Federacy much later? Interesting….
That is just not true. The “great” part comes from French and is used distinguish between big bretagne and little bretagne. The Islands existed a long time before the English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish arrived, however the term British Isles was invented a long time after their arrival and can be changed as and when people want to change it.
Personally I don’t really care all that much, you rarely if ever hear the term ‘British Isles’ being used these days so it’s not really a live issue. Obviously it was a very slow day at journal.ie so they decided to wind up those who are very easily wound up by making up a non story.
You sound a bit wound up, Niall.
The ‘Great’ in Great Britain does not refer to the larger island of the British Isles. ‘Great’ or ‘Greater’ Britain was used to distinguish the isle from ‘Britannia minor’ or ‘Lesser Britain’, the continental region which approximates to modern Brittany.
Incorrect. Great Britain is the island of England, Scotland and Wales. The term “great” was used to distinguish it from what is now Brittany. No connection to the island of Ireland
No, that s not correct. Great Britain is the island of England, Scotland and Wales. The term “Great” was used to distinguish it from “lesser” Britain, what is modern Brittany. No connection to the island of Ireland.
Ireland is a different and independent from Britain and should be referred to as Ireland and by no means part of the British Isles.
This caused a row in our house 2weeks ago,our 11yr old son had to answer this for his homework,living in England,born to Irish mother and English father,the poor child just let us argue it out!!!
What was the answer (based on what they teach in Britain)?
River Shannon
@Niall H: the wrong answer.they teach the wrog answer in Britain,apparently.
Isle be back
I came here straight away to say let’s not have a row. Let’s have a load of jokes?
I have a hape of jokes. Someone tell a funny one before I end wrecking yisser buzz with some mad spiel.
Did you hear about the magic tractor?it drove down the lane and turned into a field…hope that helped
*end up. that’s me for tonight on here, I’ve made a show of myself.
Britain is an island off the east coast of Ireland so why not refer to us collectively as the Irish isles………….
That field the farmer turned into there was a scarecrow who won an oscar for being outstanding in his field. Deliver is all over the shop. Sorry
There was a mouse living in the tractor tyre. The tyre got a puncture, now the mouse lives in a flat.
Feck off with yizzer ‘British Isles’ …. If they haven’t got the boot on our throat, it’s NOT the British Isles, it’s the island of Ireland and some offshore islands…
I have a question for anyone viewing this, do you have any holes in your socks? If not, how do you get your feet into them?
Haven’t seen the new tractor film? Just watch the trailer
When he got out of the tractor the farmer was out standing in his field….
I’ll get my coat…
The question should be is Britain part of Ireland
Constitutionally speaking?
Top right hand corner is.
@Vinny: it could be,because of all the Brits with Irish grandparents….
I thought of this one years ago and my Scottish housemate at the time thought it was gas craic… Let’s just call the place F.U.C.K.O.F.F. ie the Federal United Celtic Kingdom Of Four Fiefdoms. Anybody?
I like Ireland better than Britain the peoples here are more friendly and nice.I live in London once and glad I come to Ireland.
What a fascinating story Lorna, tell us more!
Aka the dole is better here :-)
That’s wonderful Lorna is there any point to your point or is it pointless
As one who always refers to our Dyson as a vacuum cleaner not a Hoover, in my opinion the Islands should be referred to as “The British and Irish Isles” We should always correct and/or ignore those who are not smart enought to say more the 3 words at the same time.
“In my opinion” Of course opinions are like bellybuttons, everyone has one…..
Brendan, hoe about just “the isles”. I say vacuum too, but I’m a yank :)
That would be “how”
If someone asked me if I was from the British isles,I’d swiftly correct them and say,NO!,I’m Irish therefore I’m from the Irish isles!,would you dare tell a dutch person that they are the same as the Germans?,NO, so why do this upon us Irish?!.
Or when you go on holidays in Europe and the locals say Irish/ english the same all British. That’s what they think.
Irish Isles? So that would be the island of Ireland…and?
There are many other small islands on the west coast
And all the other Islands off our coast…
Matt that’s all you’ll get in Santa Ponza
When you do tell them your Irish…..you get better treatment and service…..
Look a lot of Irish blood and pain over the centuries to achieve our status Ireland is Irish and always will be
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah! Lot of good it did us, we belong to Germany now!
What exactly is “Irish blood”? Most of us living on this island have some Saxon, French, Scandinavian, Spanish, Portuguese and god knows what else rushing through our veins. And the next generation is going to be much more *mixed* (thank goodness!) I wish more Irish people had more awareness of their own history. There seems to be some sort of weird nationalist notion that our ancestors were here 5000 years ago and built Newgrange, um, actually, no. Most of our ancestors are blow-ins and most of us are part-Brits. Cop on to yourselves and stop spouting off that nationalist nonsense.
And then you signed it all over to Europe. Britain and Ireland are closer today than ever before.
Em there aren’t any Irish people running around with Spanish or Portuguese blood. The Americans just propagated the inane term “black-Irish” because they cannot/refuse to accept the fact that all Irish people don’t have red hair and speak like this “begorrah”.
Yes, you’re right Art, no Spanish person has ever got on a boat and traded with Ireland, or was on a boat that was shipwrecked off the Irish coast, that never, ever happened! *sigh*
It’s nothing to do with America – do you know anything about the connections between Ireland and Spain in medieval period? The level of trade that occurred between both areas? The fact that thousands of pilgrims from Ireland visited Spain? Seriously, don’t try that shite with a historian!
Things aren’t as linear as dumbass Americans think.
There are plenty of Spaniards and Portuguese with fair features and light hair. Red hair originated in Scandinavia. Irish people are capable of having black hair without having had a Latin ancestor.
There are plenty. Have you never been to Galway? My own name, when translated from Irish is ‘dark foreigner’. Get real.
I hate to burst your bubble but this myth was debunked.
Art why are you banging on about America and Americans? There is plenty of evidence of interactions between Ireland and continental Europe, including Spain.
And I think calling Americans dumbasses says much more about you than it does about Americans.
What difference does it make, The asteroid is on it’s way in 2029 . We’re all doomed Mr Mannering.
I’m not a dumbass,…….dumbass
We are strangers at home,
We are exiles in Erín.
The whole black haired Irish people are descended from Spaniards myth originated from the sinking of the Armada fleet. Problem is most of the Spanish died in that assault and only a proportionally tiny amount of them survived the wreck. The Spaniards that survived the wreck were hanged once they got on mainland soil. The rest didn’t hang around in Ireland.
Galway and west cork are full of people who share a common genetic pattern with French and Spanish bretons. These researches, by DNA sampling, have been carried out in recent years and have nothing to do with who did, or did not, survive the wreckage of the Spanish armada.
Ah mark how’s about you stop spouting your f#cking shit. What’s wrong with an Irish person being proud of where they are from and having everything belonging to it been called what it should. You tosser!
Well said Mark, the Irish are just another mongrel nation made up people from other parts of the British isles, mainland Europe and beyond. There is no such thing as pure Irish or English for that matter. Irish people have iron age ancestors the whole ‘Celtic’ thing is a nonsense, Ireland has less claim to being a Celtic nation than Poland or even Switzerland. The ‘Gaelic revival’ in the early part of the 20th century saw the whole Celtic mythology and romanticism as an opportunity to differentiate the Irish from the British for political reasons, which in itself is absurd given that a big number of British are in fact ‘Celtic’ according to themselves, ie Scots, Welsh, Cornish, Manx and even the pre Roman ‘Britons’ who shared a common language, religion and society with their Irish counterparts. All of this nonsense over a geographic term is pathetic and just shows how some Irish people just can’t get this inferiority complex out of their heads, the chip on the shoulder must weigh heavy on some people to the point that they are bent over. Ireland is in the British Isles, we were (are) also in Europe geographically long before we were ever in the EU but then that doesn’t matter does it, because it hasn’t got “British” in the title. How ironic that the word British derives from Bretonic/Brythonic which is in fact just another word for ‘Celtic’. A name in itself which merely describes a language not a race of people, Keltoi in Greek referred to the language(s) spoken by Northern tribes in mainland Europe.
@Art “The Spaniards that survived the wreck were hanged once they got on mainland soil. The rest didn’t hang around in Ireland.” – Complete bull crap. May I suggest reading up on the Battle of Kinsale. 15 years after the sinking of the Armada, 35,000 Spanish troops arrived into Kinsale to help the Irish fight the English. At the time many Irish were also spreading across Europe to fight for other countries too.
Ireland will always be Ireland until they find that oil and gas off of Dalkey and the West. Then we can buy our own geopolitical landscape..with blackjack..and hookers..
Ah, forget the blackjack :)
The way I see it, is that it’s a bit like Czechoslovakia. That country and name no longer exist, just like Ireland is no longer part of GB (and therefore shouldn’t be associated as such). Now we say Czech Republic and Slovakia. They are both independent countries as are GB and Ireland.
Ireland was never part of Britain. It was Britain and Ireland.
Its a geographic reference plain and simple.. Like the ‘nordic’ region which simply refers to Sweden, Norway, Finland and sometimes Denmark or the term benelux.. That’s a place and when referenced to you know exactly what part of Europe it is.. Or the middle east.. Israel is very clearly part of this location but they don’t don’t consider themselves middle eastern.. The term is geographic and when someone says ‘the British isles’ and educated person would ask ‘where exactly, UK or Ireland?’
What has the pavee point representative got to say?
Their culture has been denigrated. They have been marginalised. We are all racist.
My research tells me that a pavee was a native of South Armagh in Ireland who, on a seasonal basis, would travel round Britain carrying cloth and clothing for sale. Why is it now connected with Bulgarians?
Britain looks like a paedophile priest reaching down to grab a running child
Lmfao!!
Ireland is definitely not part if the British Isles. Let’s knock this one on the head straight. My head nearly exploded when I had someone recently refer to England as the “mainland”!!
As far as I’m aware the first reference to these islands comes from the Greeks, who referred to them as the “Pretanic Isles”, from the word “Brythonic”, a Celtic cultural/linguistic group. Welsh, Cornish, and Breton are all Brythonic Celtic languages. “Pretanic” then evolved into “Britannic” and then into the modern “British”, so technically the word “British” means Celtic, if that satisfies any nationalists. Although I don’t see the point in tying yourself in knots about it.
So basically what you are saying is that the British isles are named after us all along and we didn’t even know it. Brilliant.
Actually the Greeks knew multiple groups of Celts and had names for the various tribes. The Illyrians, the Thracians etc. So the name Brytons would not be a generic Greek name for celts.
the orginal term the greeks used was the tin islands . not sure how they messed this one up . they even mis translated Ireland name mutible times , and got it wrong evertime lol they called itHibernia the real name was Lerne , which is related to Éiru and Éire . also Irish arent Byrtonic there Goidelic so it dosent even make sense . Brytonic and Goidelic are completly differnt brances of the indo european and are barely related only the fact that there celtic . so calling it Brythonic is not correct . Góidelic is not Brytonic
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albion
Albion (Ancient Greek: Ἀλβίων) is the oldest known name of the island of Great Britain.
Judging from Avienus’ Ora Maritima to which it is considered to have served as a source, the Massaliote Periplus (originally written in the 6th century BC, translated by Avienus at the end of the 4th century), does not use the name Britannia; instead it speaks of nēsos Iernōn kai Albiōnōn “the islands of the Iernians and the Albiones”.[6] Likewise, Pytheas of Massilia (ca. 320 BC), as directly or indirectly quoted in the surviving excerpts of his works in later writers, speaks of Albion and Ierne (Britain and Ireland).
The British and Irish have so much in common that it don’t matter if Ireland is in the British isles or not.
I’m sure the millions who have died on this island due to British occupation would tent to disagree with you.
We watch their telly, support their soccer teams, read their tabloids and basically look more towards British modern day culture! It’s hilarious that we think we’re so different, we have differences indeed but we are infact more similar than we dare to admit.
Time we stopped pretending!
I’m sure the millions who have died on this island due to British occupation would tent to disagree with you.”
– if they saw the country today that they gave their lives for I doubt they would do it again – ie die for ” Ireland ” .
Anyway the idea of countries is old hat – the people who rule us the MNC – the bankers – they do not care about nation states etc – except to use them as tax havens or sources of cheap labour .
Outdated pathetic ramblings. Those who died blah blah. Maybe be a little more worldly and concentrate on relevant issues that effect people day to day….
Potatoe potato who gives a hoot what were called, let’s be mature and work together as universal people and not focus on past rivalries
Have some respect would you.
I’m really trying Donal, but when thickos waffle on about occupation in 2013, it really makes me question the intelligence of us paddy a
You make fair points but just think we need to respect those who died is all Billie!…no offence…
Millions who have died? It’s not Rwanda we live in
“Millions died on this island due to British occupation”
Really? Where did you get the stats for that little throwaway observation? Please don’t dredge up the famine – the British government reacted badly to it, but the cause of it was centuries of breeding, having too many children and dividing up plots of all between all these children until holdings were too small to sustain everyone. Plus, relying on one crop was also a bit idiotic.
The problem with the Irish then and now is that it’s always someone else’s fault. We’re great at complaining but really quite crap at rolling our sleeves up and doing something about it. We secretly enjoy being victims because it gives us the opportunity to piss and moan about it.
That form of inheritance was part of the penal laws, Protestants were allowed to pass on the farm to the eldest son, not allowed for Catholics. The desired result may not have been the famine, but the impoverishment of the natives who refused to convert was very much a foreseen and intended consequence.
Did the penal laws also insist that we breed like rabbits?
Guess what happens when there are more people than the land can support? Guess what happens when a population becomes over-reliant on one crop that is quite susceptible to disease?
The British government may have supplied enough lifeboats, but we’re the ones who crashed full-speed into the iceberg.
Mark you do realise that there was more than enough food produced on the island of Ireland during the famine to feed the entire population. Food was exported while millions died or emigrated, and we were part of the UK back then with no Dublin parliament, but the London government did very little compared to what it could have done. Some British politicians at the time claimed it was Gods punishment to the Irish and they were better off doing nothing so the population growth could be halted.
There were several famines in Scotland similar to the Irish one and minuscule amounts of people died compared to in Ireland due to the efforts of the authorities. This is not about the Irish always blaming others, it is fact that the effects of the Great famine could have been far less severe if the authorities had put their full effort into feeding the victims but it is fact the they didn’t. Obviously you are going to blame the government (which happened to be in London) for not doing as much as they could have done.
And how did a population become entirely dependent on Mexican food? Malthusian population capacity is part of it but there has never been a famine in a democracy. They aren’t naturally occurring phenomena.
Billie, New Zealand has the same relationship with Australia. It doesn’t make them Australian, does it?
I said in a previous post that the British government handled it badly – I’m a historian, so I’m well aware of the effects of famine. The food that was produced in Ireland belonged to someone (not the British government). Are you saying it should have been removed from it’s owners?
Yes. When millions are starving that’s what a responsible democratic government should do. In a national emergency that’s what happens.
Mark for a historian you certainly are over simplifying the Irish famine!
http://www.irishholocaust.org/officialbritishintent
http://www.irishholocaust.org/thefoodremoval
“In Belmullet, Co. Mayo the mission of 151 soldiers 5 of the 49th Regiment, in addition to escorting livestock and crops to the port for export, was to guard a few tons of stored meal from the hands of the starving; its population falling from 237 to 105 between 1841 and 1851. Belmullet also lost its source of fish in January, 1849, when Britain’s Coast Guard arrested its fleet of enterprising fishermen ten miles at sea in the act of off-loading flour from a passing ship. They were sentenced to prison and their currachs were confiscated.”
I dont think too many priests died during the famine.
Are you actually serious Mark, of course the government should have taken all necessary measures to ensure that people did not die of starvation. In a national emergency all resources should be diverted to alleviate the problem so of course they should have stopped food stuffs from been exported in a famine. Similarly in a state of war or after a natural disaster you divert everything at your disposal to help in the effort. The British government of the time exasperated the problem by their negligence and most politicians were not willing to believe that the famine was as bad or widespread as it actually was.
If the same famine had occurred in England you would have certainly seen a wholly different response.
Your right there Paul, as Bull McCabe says in The Field no priests died of hunger in the famine!
“The Famine Plot” by Tim Pat Coogan should educate you. It’s written by an actual historian, not a self-professed one.
Alan Carroll; “Australia has the same relationship with New Zealand” …. what are you on about? Australia has never occupied or ruled NZ, and Australia has never been attacked by NZ terrorists. In fact, there has never even been any serious political disagreement between the two countries. They’re also not even that close to each other – Sydney to Auckland is about the same distance as Dublin to Moscow!
Well done Alan! I never said we were British I said we are very similar. British isles is a geographical term, I live in 2013 and have bigger things to worry about than what a collective group of Islands are called. People talking about the past and holding onto to grudges still makes us look like a bunch of bitter backward paddys. Think beyond the past and focus on what’s important!
“Did the penal laws I sit that we breed like rabbits?”………no they didn’t but the RCC did!
It belonged to English invaders who stole the land from the Irish natives and kept the natives in effective slavery by allowing each slave family one acre on which to grow the alien crop potatoes. In return for the one acre the native slaves had to work on what used to be their own land to grow the cash crops for export by the new “owners”. Laissez faire colonisation!
“New Zealand has the same relationship with Australia” Please explain this or did you just make it up?
@Denise Friary: NOT very much in common,apart from speaking English and being Caucasian.
Niall H,like the article above it depended on what website we went on!! No definitive answer but I won the argument at home,Ireland does not belong to British Isles!!
Just sticking on the popcorn. I’m going to enjoy this one. I have my own view, but not a hope am I going to get involved.
We are separated from the British Isles by the Irish Sea which by the way is also ours because if you look at the map it has our name ‘wrote’ in it !
Not sure about that Frank. Do the Brits not fund Irish light houses?
No they don’t Irish lights look after Irish lighthouse’s which is branch of the opw. Maybe your thinking of the RNLI
I always thought brits funded irish lights … maybe not. Thanks.
Celtic Archipelago!
What about the Anglo Saxons who outnumber the celts?
And a lot of those Anglo-Saxons live in Ireland, and have done for 800 odd years.
You are pretty close to the mark there, Richard.
The term British refers to the Brythonic people that were the original natives of the islands. Breton or Brythoneg, the language spoken by these early inhabitants, still exists today in Wales and Brittany.
It is quite probable that it was the Celts themselves that coined the term Britain (Breton, land of the welsh) long before there was any suggestion that it would come to refer to a very different people.
inhabitants
TRY AT LEAST 7 MILLION in England who are of Irish ancestry.
Then take into account the disproven anglo saxon theory of who the so called English are.
NBo surpise Bernard and ‘Padriag’ have not pulled you up on that myth.
anglo Saxons never were a majority in what is now England,try 10% at best!
Away and read and stop accepting little Britain BS
I’m going for a pint,,,
Why are Irish maps all printed in England.???
Why is everything else made in China? ;-)
Why did god make stupid people? Lol
The term ‘British Isles’ isn’t British, or even Latin, and long predates any modern notion of ‘Britain’: instead it’s a transliteration of the name coined in the 4th-century BC by the Greek geographer Pytheas – Πρεταννικαὶ Νῆσοι (Pretannikai Nesoi). This included Albion, Ierne, Thule (which was possibly Iceland), and various other north Atlantic islands and territories, as much as they were known at the time. The term Pretannikai was probably based on the name of one of the indigenous peoples of the region known to early Greek scholarship, the Pretani or Priteni, who were indeed most associated with Ireland. The idea that ‘Britannia’ (as the Romans updated it) could refer to a single political – and, by implication, colonial – entity only dates from the late 17th century at the very earliest, and before then it was a historical geographical term. I accept it’s certainly not an innocent term now (even if that’s partly due to the ambiguous grammar of the English language, blurring possessives), though it is good to talk about about the history of the geographical terminology of these islands. Names are important, and the naming of places has been a tool of colonialism in many parts of the world for a long time.
Well if that’s all historically accurate / and it aint because one would have to accept as literal translations from people who lived thousand plus years ago who almost certainly spoke in long extinct dialects by time of much later translation, and beside would have known all but f all of the wider world as we know it today!
The islands people imagine / assume selectively / conveniently could as well be the isle of wight.
Bear in mind there are no maps that prove the Romans had any idea of the size or existence of Ireland.
The much quoted Agricola for example had this assumed Ireland as laying somewhere between Roman conquered southern England and Roman conquered northern Spain.
As you correctly state, the pretanic means british is nonsense.
FFS people would not accept the word of a politician spoken today let alone last week!
lol but when it suits somehow they just accept the word of some f who was supposed to have existed near 2000 years ago, writing under authoritarian regime, and then their words we only know because they are translated several times until some other f hundreds of years later who never even spoke the language gives us the final translation of what the ancient really meant!
If anyone really imagines these ancients of Greece did know Ireland and can describe exactly how, you should save your work here and go work for Disney.
That aside accepting the selective & convenient translation for conjecture.
If there really is a need for a collective name for the two clearly distinct islands of the world known as Ireland and Britain, then we should of course claim them for the Greeks or who ever first ‘apparently’ noted them as a collective.
An amazing feat one I can not remotely imagine, even though having been on board ships around these waters for several months all told!
More realistically the Franco Norman Islands then.
But be serious,.no one gives a f do they.
Not as if Britain is really united anymore or remotely distinct or as one, let alone complicate it further by looking for a supposed other non distinct but distinct island to claim as a distinct geographic area.
Brutish isles is a political term, a 18th century colonial term, a outdated & misleading quite useless term
As misleading and outdate and as useless a claim as britainia rules the waves.
They don’t and it isn’t
that game is over.
Britain is going to the United Nations to stop the ‘Irish’ Sea lapping up on Blackpool beach.
I guarantee no one in Britain gives a flying fcuk. Also they don’t think the “republic” of Ireland is British. Only a debate on this side of the water.
Padraig,
Correct
What about we call it The Eastern Pacific Isles. That would confuse everyone
I once informed a man from North Wales that the Irish for Wales was ‘An Bhreatain Bheag’, and that I suppose a literal translation might be ‘little Britain’…. and he nearly went ballistic. :-)
For me personally, I’d never ever refer to Ireland as being a part of a ‘British isles’. I probably wouldn’t even have the willpower to enter a discussion about it. Cut and dried case, as far as I’m concerned.
I think we have more to worry about like geting a wage to pay the bills,so I don’t care what they call this forsaken land at the moment.
Why can’t we just refer to “Britain and Ireland” instead of the “British Isles”? It’s not that much longer! You often hear people referring to “Spain and Portugal” but rarely to the “Iberian Peninsula”…..
British is a political term
We are not part of Britain politically
Simples
Eh what about Northern Ireland
It’s a British garrison in Ireland. So what?
Jaysus wake up.
UK passports say the “United kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” so the six counties are not part of Britain either
I was responding to the comment above saying Ireland is not a part of their political system. Stop trolling.
You mean the six counties.
Who named it the British Isles?
British people. Not God.
Who is this god you speak of??
We could call it the “Irish Isles”
I always considered it a handy geographical term.
Is it Batman or The Batman?
Ireland says no
Let’s face it – if Britain was a Republic, Ireland would be a Monarchy. So geography can bugger off.
Who cares, it was the Romans that gave Britian it’s name and at that time the Saxon and the Anglos were over deep in Russia or some where like that.
Nationalism is a fairly new concept and I have no problem with the term the British Isles.
It’s like “Londonderry”. The British decide on what they want to call a place or group of islands and we’re expected to meekly acquiesce to it.
A young american lad sitting beside me a few years ago was on his way to london via Dublin. When we landed he said he was delighted to be in the UK….I had to correct him and said he would need to keep the celebration on hold for a while.
I think we irish are very outward looking and know a lot about other countries mainly due to our migrant history which continues today. Other countries are far too inward looking or just don’t care.
Seeing as the maps are wrong and the countries out of position it matters little whether it’s Oceania or Eurasia been referred to http://www.buzzfeed.com/mariasherm/every-world-map-youve-ever-looked-at-is-wrong
They should change the name of the Wicklow mountains to the Tallaght mountains.
You’re thinking of the Dublin Mountains.
This site is full of west Brit green Tories tramps !
It is a purely geographical term, I have never had a problem with it – and yes, I am Irish, back to before records began.
As long as they dont call our country as Southern Ireland I dont mind
Proud to be Irish , who’s going out for scoops?
with Tescos at every crossroads, we are now the most lucrative part of the British aisles.
With possible Scottish independence, hopefully the question becomes less inflammatory.
”England & Wales”, stands alright, their laws are very similar. Scotland has a lot of different legal customs. The term British will lose importance and who knows maybe less of the imperialism.
The only er problem is that the term UK requires northern ireland. Only violent tank spotting war fanatics really insist on being called ‘British’. The scots say often they are scots first then british. The English probably likewise if there are no scots about in ear shot. The welsh just take what they can get.
They should divide them up into two islands and call them ‘the islands’ Western isle and ‘the other one’
There is no reason to refer to them as one group other than to appease unionists on the island of Ireland imo.
How does the term UK rely on N. Ireland? The term comes from the fact that each member of the UK is itself a kingdom. The Queen sits on the throne of the Kingdom of England and from there is supposed to be the Queen of the Kingdom of Scotland, Wales etc. If Scotland and N. Ireland left it would still be a United Kingdom.
Each member (state) of the uk is not a kingdom . That is just silly. There is one kingdom hence one king.
The united kingdom was only formed in 1801 to incorperate ireland ,and modifed when ‘northern ireland’ was ‘retained’ in the 1920s . It was always Britain under the acts of 1707 union between England and Scotland.
Wales is a principality in a modern sense one might say constiutent country , and not a kingdom.
If Scotland AND northern irelad left it would not be a united kingdom . It would be probably just called England and Wales. Since Scotland is required for britain, and Ireland in some shape or form is required for united kingdom
Not exactly, Wales is a principality of England, not a kingdom in itself. Scotland yes. NI historically part of the kingdom of Ireland perhaps?
Wrong, again!
This site is full of west Brit green Tories tramps !
Call it Celtic Isles in recognition of the six Celtic nations that make up this region. Besides there is a growing interest in Celtic civilisation in some parts of the world–more mystique than Anglos. Make a new twist on the gathering.
But it isn’t the Celtic isles. There are celts there, but they are a minority. Be like calling America “Mexico” because there are some Mexicans there.
Plus research from Trinity shows Ireland isn’t even a Celtic nation. The peoples who first settled the island of what is now Ireland predate the Celts and later borrowed or adapted aspects of Celtic culture – much like an eastern European adopting American culture they get from the TV – although there is no evidence the Celts moved to this island en masse.
Trinity study LOL that is for certain not led to be bias!
Regardless what did they conclude in their small sample no scientific study ?
They concluded that the Irish had much in common with the Iberian peninsula!
Which matches the story of the Milesian Gaelic culture!
Which is interpretated today whether you or Trinity like it or not as Celtic.
btw, all words are made up!
As for your double act ‘Padriag’ the parrots assumption on the English not being Celtic
1. As outlined above – Celtic like all cultural or racial claims are not organic or pure or direct from some / the God or nature.
2. Millions of the so called English of England are genetically Irish, so no wonder we match them,
Millions are just 1 or 2 steps away from full or mostly Irish ancestry.
Millions of them!
so forget your assumptions matey
I one of the millions was born and bred there and I am Irish, not Irish and British. Just Irish.
There is no need the world over to distinguish Ireland or the Irish.
No need to add some old 18th century colonial term like british isles or new colonial term like European union.
It is a outdated term that no one uses.
You little Britain lovers should be more concerned about another outdated term, the most ironical ‘united kingdom’ lol
Conor, seriously?
The island of Ireland is and always has been part of the British Isles. The people of the British Isles share ancestral and family links.
You’re “Irish”. Although I take it you’re born in England? (making you English?) Bravo and whoopee for you. That doesn’t have to mean in the report card of nationalities “does not play well with others, does not work as part of a team, does not make friends easily, holds grudges” just to assert some cliched notion of Irishness.
It’s 2014. England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Ireland (and Jersey, Guernsey & Isle of Mann) get along just fine. Vive la difference!
How about just calling it “The Isles”?
It would be confused with “The (Scottish) Isles”
As Father Ted would say ” ,that’s an eck umenical question “
Let’s just call it the British and Irish isles ! Problem solved ! Two separate identities one geographic location :)
Thanks for the “hat tip”, Nickie. I was going to suggest a “myths debunked” article on the subject. A better place for people to thrash it out than on an article about spiders!
Good article and I think one that really takes the wind out of all sails. But I am sure there will be plenty of Unionists, Partitionists, Republicans, Fenians, Ulster Scots, etc etc who will have a good barney tonight!
“Ulster Scot”. That’s another absolute pile of steaming crap. There is no such thing. You are Irish with Scottish blood going back 400 years.
Art – so are you a Republican or a Fenian? Or are you angry I missed out your particular political leaning?
What?
I’m just saying the “Ulster Scrot” thing is preposterous.
I have a more recent English bloodline than these jokes and I don’t go around calling myself English Irish.
Ulster scrote!?!
Freudian slip.
Your seven minutes late? We waited 700 hunderd years for this u can have your 7 minutes!!!! Were Irish! Just Ireland no British Isles
Cringe
Is Britain an Irish island? No! Is Ireland a British island? No? The West Indies are called the West Indies for 500 years but that still does not mean that Christopher Columbas made it to India even though a map from the 15th or 16th century names it as India. The West Indies are still neither geographically or politically Indian. Ireland is an island and the mainland is Europe. I’ve heard foreigners wonder why Ireland has been referred to as part of the British isles. They know it does not make sense. Its simply a falsehood.
Typical Journal.ie stuff. Let’s post something controversial on a bank holiday quiet day and see if we can drum up some traffic and annoy the natives.
… and like lemmings, 140+ comments in, too busy fighting and arguing among themselves, they all followed each other over the clifftop.
Welcome to the Internet, you must be new here.
Ah Mick, what’s wrong with a bit of debate?
How about just call it “Home”…?
This article was interesting, but it answered absolutely nothing.
What makes Britain so Great anyway?why didn’t they call it Brilliant Britain or Magnificent Britain?
We could call ourselves the Radical Republic of Ireland
Dear Liz please take us back we give it a go but fu*ked up being a country so please we are sorry.
Regards
Ireland
Sure as a former colonial power, their element of ownership includes Islands as far away as the Falklands,including the island continent of Europe,Russia China ,India combined,,,as Ronnie Drew sang years ago,thank god, were surrounded by water
Ireland might as well be in Great Britain.
Nobody even knows Ireland isn’t part of Great Britain and even if they do, they still say we’re British.
Great Britain is a geographical name for our neighbouring island. The Britons were the celtic speaking inhabitants of the southern part of that island, broadly speaking England and Wales of today. The Picts occupied what is now Scotland, until the Irish (the Scotii) moved in from the west bringing the Gaelic language with them, and in time giving their name to that land. Interestingly the term British ignores the Romans, Danes, Saxons and Normans who established their power principally in England, referring rather to the original Celtic speaking Britons, of whose language Welsh and Breton are surviving forms.
How bout just putting up a big sign saying wtf are our government doing selling our souls to Angela and co therefore name of country May as we’ll be FOR SALE !
The British Isles ends at Isle of Mann. Western European Isles for the collective.
Actually the Isle of Man is part of Great Britain but not part of the United Kingdom….go figure!
Corporate whoring is the solution. How about the “Aldi or Aviva Isles”- Think of all the sheckels for the exchequer!
It seems we live in the land of ire regarding this matter!
What’s in a name? that which we call a turd
By any other name would smell as sweet;
And why did the name Scotland come from the Irish, who, who may have borrowed it from the British??.. That’s why I always think same/same
I’m afraid so.
I only remember the term being used when speaking of climate in geography classes in school
This really isn’t that important
Well, while I’d call it Ireland and Great Britain, I can’t help but try and forget the politics. Lets face it, we’re all European (German) now. What I really wanted to comment on is that map, stunning, I have saved to my hard drive, thanks :)
Briarish Isles. Simple.
The term British Isles and Ireland is also incorrect. Not all the islands around the two countries are British. The Aran Islands, Dalkey Island, Ireland’s Eye, the ones off Kerry, Cobh, the island in the middle of the lake in Blackrock Park, etc. are all Irish So to be accurate it should be the British and Irish Isles. A bit like the British and Irish Lions
What is the point in using a term like “British Isles?” If it causes offence to so many people, then it should be disregarded.
In the same way that I wouldn’t go over to Britain and refer to myself as being in the “Irish Isles”, even if many Britons see themselves as Irish.
My understanding was:
Ireland – Ireland is not a country but refers to the island where the countries of The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland (under British rule) exist.
U.K. – Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and England and islands found within.
Britain – Britain is not a country like ‘Ireland’ but refers to the large island containing Scotland, England and Wales.
British Isles – synonymous with U.K. But excluding Northern Ireland as it’s not an island.
Almost, but Ireland IS a country, and an island. The island contains Northern Ireland, the country does not.
The ‘Republic of Ireland’ isn’t the name of this country, it’s the description. The official name is Ireland.
Interesting. I didn`t think Ireland was classified as a country. I assumed the Republic of Ireland was wrongly shortened to “Ireland”.
Sure look at music, any of the famous bands that leave Ireland end up being called a British band in all the foreign papers!!
Sure I was born there, I’ve lived here nearly 3/4 of my life, two words describe it all ‘who cares?’.
Why not forget all this fuss and call them something new… The Irish Isles?
British isles but not United Kingdom I believe….
Really not bothered either way! Shouldn’t be an issue really
Sounds like another PR attempt at looking into the reunification of Ireland and Britain. Lots of underhand stuff going on the last five years in Irish media, all around the idea of closer ties between Ireland and Britain (including blasting the British royals all over Irish papers and television). Most people don’t see it but anyone who watches media can see it clearly.
I can’t see that being a bad thing…
I hate to be the one to break it you Michael, but this article isn’t a “PR attempt at looking into the reunification of Ireland and Britain”. To the best of my knowledge, that isn’t happening in any Irish media.
I have one thing to say only,its like saying Japan http://www1.american.edu/ted/ice/images5/mk_map_of_east_asia.gif belongs to china. Argument is rubbish.
Ireland is no apart of british isles just because they named it so doesnt make it British isles either.
Irish isles or sea our jurisdiction etc.. etc.. Move along nothing to see here.
I always assumed the term referred to Britain and the Falklands!
I have no problem with people saying we’re in the British Isles, it’s just a geographic term. Now, someone calls us British and it’s a different story. But folks getting their backs up over the British Isles? Send them back to Geography class IMO.
Anyone see that in the coloured lines pic the whole thing likes like an embryo with Ireland being the placenta….
The British Queen & Royal Family doesn’t consider the British Isles to include Ireland.
Look at Q9 on the British Royals FAQ: ( http://www.royal.gov.uk/FrequentlyAskedQuestions/20%20most%20asked%20questions.aspx ):
> Q9. In how many countries is The Queen Head of State?
>
> A. Including the British Isles, The Queen is Head of State in 16 Commonwealth countries. Her Majesty is head of the Commonwealth which includes 53 countries.
Jaysus .some strange effects of coastal erosion since that 1459 map was made.
I see it as colloquial, common in England though obselete if it was ever really used here. I’d agree with the British OS that It’s handy to have a geographic way to describe the Islands forming an archipelago off the northern coast of the European continent. If we were to come up with something now, it would probably be something totally different. Blame the ancient Greeks perhaps. America is a case and point example of the curious opposite problem. I’ve met a lot of Argentinians/Cubans/Panamanians etc who consider themselves American. The problem is the confusion of politics and nations, with the need for a way to describe the physical geography. The latter often sits uncomfortably alongside the former as it hasn’t kept up with the faster pace of political change.
Obviously a geographical term nowadays predicated in the fact that the biggest island gives the collection of Islands a name. If Ireland was the biggest isle then the collection would probably have been referenced as the Irish isles. Also the biggest island is next to mainland Europe so Europeans would see the British Isles as a suitable description. No doubt in its earliest sense there was an element of political geography. I wonder had the Romans a collective name for this group of Islands or maybe Ptolemy could throw some light on it. Could be compared to the “naming rights” for stadia in modern times. We all know where the Aviva is but when another sponsor gets the naming right in the future it could be the VHI stadium!!!!!! Then we might have Corporate Beds there instead of Corporate Suites!!!!
The British Isles is a geographical term not a political term. That is where the confusion lies
Putting my PR hat on, we should give it an acronym and can be said as a word. Something like UKIRL (pronounced You Curl)
No political difficulties there
The best is the oldest. The ancient world knew these islands as the Cassiterites; the tin islands.
I didn’t know that, thanks for the interesting fact!
Sorry, a typo, it should be Cassiterides.
I never really had a problem with it. It’s like the Canary Islands, and the biggest one is Big Canary – you name the group after the largest one. No biggie. Wouldn’t use it myself but, I don’t assume someone’s being all imperialist when they use it.
“These Islands” is a bit weak and “Britain and Ireland” leaves out the likes of the Isle of Man.
So in summary you are absolutely fine with what ever anyone wants to call it as long as the Isle of man is not left out.
Who could forget the isle of man.
How about the eejit isles.
Menu from the recent G8 meeting in County Fermanagh “Selection of cheeses from the British Isles”…..https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/media
Brirish Isles
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10 A really good breakdown of the United Kingdom in all it’s forms.
They belong to who owns them,financially?so….Germland
If the governments, who could come up with nothing better than ‘these islands’ (lol), had any imagination at all they might be able to create some sense of unity by giving the isles a decent name.
Let’s just call them the Western Isles of the Almight German Empire !
have your say